Mike Williams came to Bucs franchise quarterback Josh Freeman’s defense today in the wake of Hall of Fame QB Fran Tarkenton’s harsh views of the embattled Bucs signal-caller.

While Bucs franchise quarterback Josh Freeman claimed today he had not heard the harsh words of Hall of Fame quarterback Fran Tarkenton claiming Freeman was “God awful” on WDAE-AM 620 yesterday, perhaps Freeman’s staunchest supporter did.

And while Bucs wide receiver Mike Williams didn’t directly address Tarkenton’s comments, he had, as he always does, Freeman’s back.

“I think he is awesome!” Williams said. “I think he is one of the best quarterbacks in this league. Some people have the right opinion; some people have the wrong opinion.”

Despite callers to local sports radio stations seemingly wanting Freeman’s head on a platter for a couple of bad practices, Williams claims Freeman is immune to the viscious attacks.

“I don’t think he pays attention to it at all,” Williams said. “It’s people like me who try to say something back for him. He just goes on to the next step.”

Williams is convinced the criticism is unfair to Freeman but No. 5 is playing it right.

“People are going to judge you the way they want to judge you,” Williams said. “I have been dealing with that my whole life. You just have to move on. And that is what Josh is doing.”

Joe remembers last year Williams coming out swinging with a passionate defense of Freeman, claiming that it wasn’t just the quarterback to blame for an incompletion in Bucs coordinator Mike Sullivan’s offense. Williams told all who were within earshot that receivers were equally responsible if not more so for the reads on the defense.

Joe thinks it is way cool how Williams has Freeman’s back. Joe has no issue whatsoever if someone doesn’t like the play of Freeman. But this nonsense spouted by Warren Moon, which seems to have been hatched by Boomer Esiason last year, with zero attribution, is simply outrageous.

To hear all of Williams’ words, click the arrow below, audio courtesy of Joe’s friends at WDAE-AM 620.

Bucs safety Mark Barron hopes the Bucs have the NFL’s best secondary beginning the first week of the season.

It doesn’t take a vivid imagination to smell the bad taste in Mark Barron’s mouth from the horrid Bucs pass defense. After all, many Bucs fans threw up enough watching that atrocity.

But the past is the past, as players like to say. Barron’s done with talking about the past. Part of that is because he believes the Bucs have a shot at having the best secondary in the NFL. The experience that newcomers Darrelle Revis and Dashon Goldson bring is one reason.

“It got frustrating,” Barron said. “There was a lot going on. We were the best run defense in the league so teams wanted to come after us (with the pass). We want to go from last to first.”

The first step to accomplishing that goal was simple.

“I feel like we have better players, period,” Barron said.

It’s not just better players, but what those players (Darrelle Revis, Dashon Goldson) bring, years of experience Barron noted is already paying off.

“That experience is an advantage for a real young team,” Barron said. “We need that experience. If [Goldson] sees something that needs to be corrected or some kind of an issue, it will get addressed whether it is something in the secondary or the whole team.”

As for Revis, Barron said, “It is good to have that help. He is a smart guy to alert you as to what might be coming, things that come with experience.”

Joe asked Barron if the Bucs secondary may be a late bloomer. While most of the secondary has been playing together since OTAs, it hasn’t been until this week that Revis has been able to practice with the first team defense regularly. Barron disagreed.

“Hopefully it doesn’t take that long,” Barron said. “We want to go out Week 1 and be at our peak. That is always the goal to come out that first game and be at the top level.”

There’s really only one new wide receiver in the mix for playing time this season. That would be Kevin Ogletree, the free agent pickup out of Dallas who has taken most of the reps at No. 3 receiver.

Yes, Ogletree dropped a Freeman first-down pass last week against New England, but at least he was in synch with Freeman on that route and finished with a strong game.

Joe asked Freeman about building chemistry with the new guy today, and Freeman said that’s not an issue.

“Kevin’s a tremendously talented guy, a hard working guy. When it comes to developing chemistry, you know, that makes it easy for me as a quarterback, when you have a guy that works like that, a guy constantly chatting it up about different looks about different angles,” Freeman said of Ogletree. “He’s a smart guy. He’s very intelligent and understands the game. So developing chemistry [with him], on top of him just being a great dude in the locker room, you know, it’s been really easy.”

Joe will have his eye on the Ogletree-Freeman connection on Saturday night in Miami. Freeman needs to build quick confidence in Ogletree for the Bucs to have a more diverse offense, especially considering they don’t have a dynamic tight end to lean on.

Joe likes what he’s seen from Ogletree, but his resume suggests he has a lot to prove.

Fran Tarkenton may think Josh Freeman is “God awful,” but fellow Hall of Famer Warren Moon disagrees.

Moon, now a broadcaster for the Seahawks,  joined the Ron and Ian show this morning on WDAE-AM 620 and said he likes Freeman’s talent and on-field and in-the-facility leadership but doesn’t believe Freeman is as “dedicated” as he needs to be and “likes to hang out a little bit too much.”

Joe’s not sure where this take on Freeman’s dedication comes from. It’s the same stuff Boomer Esiason spread last year. None of it jibes with Joe’s observations and knowledge.

Geez, is Freeman not permitted to drink beer on his off days? You can catch Moon’s whole interview below. Moon also goes into the Xs and Os of his personal tutoring of Cam Newton, and more.

Blistergate likely has many Bucs fans expecting Jeremy Zuttah to again ditch his job at center and move to left guard if/when Carl Nicks is unavailable Week 1 against the Jets.

Hold on, Zuttah told Joe today.

Zuttah has been playing center exclusively this season and is not taking reps at left guard, and moving there is not in the plan to the best of his knowledge.

Would moving to left guard be second nature, Jeremy?

“No second nature,” Zuttah said. “I mean you do something else for so long that if you have to switch you need reps to get back to it. As of now I’m only playing center.”

Ted Larsen would be next in line behind Nicks at left guard. Bucs fans would be hoping he could recapture his 2010 form their when he spent a chunk of the season there when Zuttah moved from guard to center for injured Jeff Faine.

Zuttah went on to make it clear that he wants to settle in at center this season and master the position. Joe hopes Chucky’s final third-round pick gets the chance to do just that.

So what’s the best news coming out of One Buc Palace today?

There’s no question it was Greg Schiano’s assessment of Darrelle Revis’ Wednesday practice effort.

Revis has been stepping up his workload, including covering Vincent Jackson in drills. Today, per Schiano, Revis “did more and looked impressive.”

The Bucs need their $1 million-per-game man on the field to challenge for the playoffs. So this is an amazing sign.

As for Revis playing Saturday night in Miami, Schiano didn’t rule it out but specified that everything Revis does is with a thorough day-to-day approach. Translation: Saturday is up to Revis, if he’s healthy.

While Super Bowl-winning quarterback Joe Theismann hasn’t played in as many Super Bowls as Josh Freeman critic Fran Tarkenton, Theismann has something Tarkenton does not: a ring.

Theismann stopped in to chat on the local airwaves on the Ron and Ian show on WDAE-AM 620 yesterday and was bullish on Freeman, but Theismann admits there can’t be much more waiting around for him to develop.

“I think Josh can play, I believe he can play. I think it’s a very critical year for him, and I’m hoping it becomes a Joe Flacco type story,” Theisman said. “They’re [Bucs] in a division that is as top heavy with New Orleans with Sean Payton back and of course Atlanta. This is not an easy road, but I believe the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of any team in the league have made great strides going forward. It’s a put up or shut up year.

“There is no question that this is an important year [for Freeman]. You have a new coach who’s continuing to evaluate you, and added weapons on the offensive side of the ball. The [quarterback] position is the most dependent position on the field. If you don’t have any talent around you, you’re dead in the water. This is a huge year for him. Huge year.”

Joe has written this before but the way the Mike Glennon Mob has freaked out the past few days because Freeman had a few incompletions, it bears repeating:

Joe believes Freeman will have a better year this season; maybe his best. He is in the second year in a complex offense. He knows how to work with last year’s newcomers Vincent Jackson and Doug Martin; and they him. He has all the toys. Now it’s time to use them.

To hear the full interview with Theisman, click the arrow below. As always, audio courtesy of Joe’s good friends at WDAE-AM 620.

No matter what happens Saturday night in the Bucs-Dolphins preseason game, Josh Freeman will start opening day against the Jets in 18 days. But the QB situation isn’t so clear for New York.

Rookie QB Geno Smith has a bad ankle but will start against the Giants on Saturday night. This SNY-TV video below delivers the latest on the Jets’ QB mess. Joe’s rooting for Smith to win the job. The Bucs have to be able to beat a rookie QB leading a bad team on opening day. Right?

Dekoda Watson (pictured) is in a fierce battle with Jonathan Casillas for the starting position at strongside linebacker.

In the offseason the Bucs made it abundantly clear that the starting strongside linebacker gig was Dekoda Watson’s to lose. After Quincy Black’s career with the Bucs came to an abrupt end with nerve damage, it left a void and the Bucs wanted their special teams ace to get the job.

As is usual with Bucs coach Greg Schiano, he wants competition. And Schiano got that at the position when the Bucs signed veteran linebacker Jonathan Casillas from the Saints.

To hear Schiano talk now, the race for that starting job is a virtual dead heat. It’s not that Watson is playing himself out of a job, but that Casillas is doing so much and playing so well that he is a serious candidate for the job.

“I think it’s great competition,” Schiano said. “If you’ve noticed, they’ve even taken turns going with the ones [starters] and stuff. They’re driving each other, and if we play two of them, that’s fine with me, too, because they’re both key special teams contributors. [Linebacker] Jonathan [Casillas] does a little more in our sub-package, too. I think there’s going to be plenty of plays to go around for those guys, but they’re two key guys in our entire picture there.

“Remember, I have a long history with [Casillas], so I kind of thought he’d be a good player for us. That’s why we signed him, so I wasn’t really surprised. I’m glad he’s playing at a high level though. He’s a very physical player. There are some plays in games and practice where you just say, ‘This guy loves contact.’”

Casillas insists there is zero animosity despite the desire both he and Watson have for the starting job.

“I have a lot of respect for Dekoda,” Casillas said. “He’s a guy I have been going against since I was in New Orleans on special teams. I have a lot of respect for the character he brings to the table. It’s good to go out there and compete against him. He’s a good guy. We are bringing out the best in each other.”

Despite being a newcomer to the Bucs, Casillas said he now feels part of the team.

“I am very comfortable with the defense but if you asked me that at the start of training camp, I may have had a different answer,” Casillas said. “I’m learning all the ins and outs [of the defense]. Little things that show up. The preseason game this weekend will be a good test to my knowledge as well. Hopefully I add to it and continue to get better.”

Schiano constantly preaches about competition. This is proving to be a virtue at strongside linebacker. Whoever wins the job may not be much better than the guy who lost out. And on those broiling days in September and October, both men can rotate in and keep each other fresh. And if the unfortunate happens and one goes down with an injury, there shouldn’t be any measurable drop off.

Honestly, knowing how Casillas and Watson are going at it for the starting job, it makes Joe rest a bit easier at night, despite the late-night onion rings and beers.

As down as Blistergate has many Bucs fans, Tampa Bay faithful should be uplifted by what’s happening at the other guard position.

Davin Joseph is progressing well. Yes, Joe heard Joseph talk on the subject, and Joseph practiced intensely the past two days. But Joe’s more excited by what he hears Joseph’s teammates saying about him and his surgically-repaired knee.

Take the Bucs’ resident strongman, rookie nose tackle Akeem Spence. He got his first taste of Joseph this week and was blown away.

“Davin, he a beast. Yeah, he a beast. Gerald used to tell me. Before, you know, I looked at [Joseph] and I just didn’t see it and then I lined up against him yesterday. He threw me to the ground,” Spence said. “The guy is good, man. I got a lot of respect for him.”

Gerald McCoy explained to reporters today about how Joseph has been sort of his personal training partner through past training camps and about how excited he was to have Joseph getting after him again. Per McCoy, he and Joseph have a rule where they agree to go at each other 100 percent and not hold back, all in the name of improvement.

Joseph also told Joe about how he gained inspiration through his rehabilitation remembering how Cadillac Williams — twice — fought threw the same torn patellar injury with a smile during the daily grind at One Buc Palace. Joseph said attitude, like Cadillac’s, is the key to a successful recovery.

Will Joseph be ready for opening day and the grind of a full season? Joe’s got a lot more hope than a week ago.

Yes, the locker room was open today at One Buc Palace (or as Bucs coach Greg Schiano called the facility during training camp, “One Buc Bunker”) and several players were chatty. Compliments of Joe’s good friends at WDAE-AM 620, there is loads of audio available.

We have defensive tackle Gerald McCoy, linebacker Mason Foster, guard Davin Joseph, cornerback Leonard Johnson, linebacker Jonathan Casillas and running back Mike James.

And of course, Schiano’s post-practice press conference.

Again, all audio courtesy of Joe’s good friends at WDAE-AM 620.

Regular readers here know Josh Freeman has been abused by local and national media lately in ways Joe’s never seen before.

The Mike Glennon Mob that Joe has referenced numerous times appears to have all kinds of members.

Joe admits the Freeman bashing is nearly out of control, especially considering it’s only preseason. Hell, on one of Freeman’s two drives against New England, Kevin Ogletree dropped a well thrown third-down pass that was roughly 20 yards downfield, killing a drive. Today, Greg Schiano even called that pass a “Hall of Fame” throw by Freeman. Yet so many seem to believe Freeman is growing more worthless by the week.

Gerald McCoy expressed his disgust of the Freeman bashing today to Joe and various members of the Tampa Bay media. Though not identified by McCoy, it seemed clear he heard about Fran Tarkenton calling Freeman’s play “God awful” this morning.

“I think the reason I’m so sensitive about [the Freeman bashing] is because I got it for two years. They talked bad about me for two years. So, it’s like, I don’t take to well to it when they talk about my teammates. McCoy said.

“He had a real good year. People give him so much scrutiny. I’m like, ‘Man, you all got to relax. Like, calm down, man.” They just, I think he gets treated unfairly a lot. Like I said, to me, it’s a sensitive area because, you know, I got it for two years. Actually still get it.” (You can hear McCoy’s full audio take below.)

No matter how much McCoy or anyone else defends Freeman, there’s only one way for Freeman to stop the bashing: play consistently well and win games.

The Bucs are bursting with healthy running back talent, but the opposite is true at fullback. Greg Schiano talked fullbacks today.

Starting fullback Erik Lorig is walking around with one foot in a boot and hasn’t done a lot on the field this summer.

Another veteran fullback on the Bucs roster, Spencer Larsen, practiced today but is banged up and isn’t “full go,” per Schiano.

Veratile Brian Leonard? He has played very little fullback since he was 15 pounds heavier in college and blocked for Rutgers legend Ray Rice, so Leonard told Joe today.

All of the above is a big reason Bucs fans saw Tom Crabtree and other tight ends in the backfield last week. Greg Schiano said that’s not the goal.

“That’s not a great situation right now,” Schiano said today of the fullback position.

Crabtree told Joe he lined up at fullback at times in Green Bay, so it’s not a new position for him.

Joe’s unsure how the Bucs answer their fullback questions. If Lorig isn’t healthy, Larsen really has a shot to make the team if he can get on the field and impress in Miami on Saturday.

What happens when you put Tampa Bay sports radio icon Steve Duemig and Joe in the same studio to talk all things Bucs for an hour?

Find out tomorrow at 5 p.m. on WDAE-AM 620. The new, Wednesday “JoeBucsFan Hour” rolls on. You don’t want to miss this.

Joe knows there are many Gators fans who were of the belief that track star Jeff Demps, like Superman, would swoop in just as the regular season starts, not in football shape, and become the second coming of Devin Hester and lead the Bucs to double-digit wins by returning kickoffs. Well, said blue-and-orange sunglass wearers may go to bed hugging their pillows tonight.

Bucs commander Greg Schiano, when asked about Demps today during his daily post-practice press conference, seemed to let out a bit of frustration on the subject of this mysterious Demps arrival. It appeared to have touched a raw nerve.

In no uncertain terms, Schiano appeared irritated that Demps is not in training camp and all but suggested the experiment of a track star helping the Bucs (this season) is a long shot at best.

“(Sigh). I’m not, ah (pauses) — supposedly he’s coming. I don’t know. We’ll see. I don’t worry about guys that are not here, you know? So he’s not helping us get better right now. He’s out there running track somewhere. So, if he’s going to do that — if he gets here and helps us win he will be part of it. If he gets here and can’t help us win, he can go back and run track. We are here to win games.”

Joe thought it was a borderline joke that a guy, clearly not in football shape, could waltz in on the cusp of the regular season and be handed a critical position on a football team all because he can run in a straight line really fast.

Such a stunt may have been embraced on the loose ship USS Raheem Morris, but under the disciplined ways of the New Schiano Order, it’s borderline preposterous.

If Bill Belicheat thought Demps was an asset, Belicheat wouldn’t have thrown Demps in as an afterthought at the last second in the LeGarrette Blount trade.

The Buccaneers’ newest veteran defensive end already has impressed Gerald McCoy after one practice.

Trevor Scott, signed hours ago after three sacks with the Patriots last season, was in pads and in the mix today at One Buc Palace. Scott told Joe he had a tryout with the Bucs yesterday and signed on the dotted line.

During seven months as a free agent, Scott had other looks around the NFL and didn’t fatten up on the couch. Joe can attest that Scott looks to be in impressive shape.

“I’ve just been training every day, weight training, conditioning, that’s pretty much been my life,” Scott said.

Gerald McCoy said he got only a few looks at Scott today, but McCoy came away impressed.

“From the little bit I’ve seen, we do a drill where we work on our hand speed, and he has real quick hands,” McCoy said. “From what I’ve seen he’s pretty quick.”

Scott said he had no connection to the Bucs prior to signing other than his college bond with fellow University of Buffalo DE Steven Means, a Bucs rookie.

Scott likely will get a good bit of work against the Dolphins on Saturday, assuming the New Schiano Order likes what it sees in practice.

With the addition of Kevin Ogletree, left, the Bucs may have the deepest group of wide receivers in franchise history.

No, Joe just cannot peg the Bucs as winning the NFC South. Atlanta is too strong and the Bucs simply have too many question marks for Joe to go there.

Greg Bedard, one of the platoon of writers hired by Olive oil-lapping, popcorn-munching, coffee-slurping, fried-chicken-eating, oatmeal-loving, circle-jerking, beer-chugging, cricket-watching, scone-loathing, college football-naïve, baseball box score-reading Peter King to type for his website, theMMQB.com, took copious notes when the Bucs practiced with the Pats in Bedard’s former stomping grounds and believes one thing the Bucs could have is a strong bevy of wide receivers.

I think I had two overriding thoughts as I watched the Buccaneers go through two padded practices and a game against the Patriots in Foxborough, Mass., this past week, and they revolved around the offense. If the Bucs are going to go anywhere, they need two things to happen: Two players not named Doug Martin and Vincent Jackson are going to have to emerge as weapons, and quarterback Josh Freeman is going to have to be more consistent. On the first point, receiver Mike Williams has been a consistent contributor over his first three seasons—65, 65 and 63 receptions, respectively—but will he be the same player after receiving a big contract this offseason? He was nothing more than average against the Patriots last week. Conversely, free agent pickup Kevin Ogletree (who never had more than 32 catches in a season in four years in Dallas) was outstanding, so that bodes well for receiver rotation. As for Freeman, he looked to be the same player he’s always been—a wildly inconsistent but physically gifted quarterback. Most of his problems seem to stem from his footwork; specifically, his strides appear erratic. If Freeman finally gets it, and the Bucs get constant contributions from Williams and Ogletree, they’ll be dangerous.

The wide receiver rotation should be a Bucs strength. With Ogletree and Tiquan Underwood, and hopefully Chris Owusu can stay healthy and overcome his fear of bright lights, this very well may be the deepest the Bucs have been at wide receiver since Chucky’s first year with the Bucs, which ended in Chucky holding the Vince Lombardi Trophy aloft in victory on a February San Diego night.

It’s a far cry from the lot of receivers Father Dungy trotted out for the Bucs in the late 1990s.

During training camp, the unquestioned leader of the secondary was safety Dashon Goldson. The free agent from San Francisco took the younger Bucs secondary members under his wing like a mother goose.

Wherever and whatever Goldson did, the young Bucs followed and obeyed. Now this is not to suggest that star cornerback Darrelle Revis’ voice didn’t hold weight. It sure did. But Revis, on a rehab program, was not always on the practice field. In fact, he was rarely on the practice field. Goldson was.

So when Revis returned to a full practice (albeit, a practice without pads) yesterday, Goldson beamed afterwards about the return of Revis.

“He looked better than we all thought he would,” Goldson said. “He showed some good things out there. It was good to have him out there – his presence on the football field. I think he’s still getting better. He’s still got work to do, but we’re glad to have him out there.”

But aside from Goldson being happy for the Bucs, he was happy for Revis. It seems the worst is behind him.

“First and foremost, it is more important that he gets healthy, period. Of course we want him out there, but we want to make sure he’s feeling right, he’s confident, and that the staff and trainers are confident in his injury to be back out there with us,” Goldson said. “We would love to have him out there, but we understand where he is.

“Just doing the one-on-one drills – a lot of one-on-one drills. He was out there, he did some good things, read the quarterback pretty well, broke on the ball. It was surprising to see.”

This is extremely good news. The Bucs secondary, even with talented newcomers like Johnthan Banks and Rashaan Melvin, needs Revis back there. Now it appears Revis playing in in the season opener against the Jets is little more than a formality.

Bucs fans paying attention to the trenches can see that rookie nose tackle Akeem Spence is no slouch on the first-team defense. The fourth-round pick targeted to be a 16-game starter by the organization seems to be on track.

Joe was impressed by Spence snuffing out a Patriots screen pass last weekend, and Joe knows Gerald McCoy raves about Spence’s work ethic.

Is Spence ready to start? Joe asked Greg Schiano yesterday.

“Akeem’s getting better. Whether he’s ready to start, you know I’m not ready to even consider all that yet. He’s makin’ plays. He’s doing his job most of the time,” Spence said. “Rookies, you get a little tired, you know they can let go of their job. And in his job it’s a very nasty, dirty job. And you gotta win that A-gap. And there’s a lot of stuff that goes on, a lot of stuff that tries to keep you from winning that A-gap. So he’s pretty good at it. But he’s got to be more consistent at it. He’s going to get a shot again Saturday night to do it. I sure hope so. Because he’s very talented.”

Barring injury or a complete breakdown, Joe is confident Spence will be the opening-day starter at nose tackle. Whether he gets spelled by Gary Gibson or stays in on passing downs is up in the air.

Regardless, so far, Spence seems like he was worth the trade-up in the fourth round needed to nab him.

Hall of Fame QB Fran Tarkenton offered a scathing review of Josh Freeman today

Former That’s Incredible! host and Hall of Fame quarterback Fran Tarkenton verbally clobbered Josh Freeman today during an interview on WDAE-AM 620.

“He just plays God awful. … Josh Freeman has proven to me that he can’t play,” Tarkenton said.

There’s a lot more in the audio below. In case you were wondering, Tarkenton, 73, is not senile. Rays fans also might find it interesting that Tarkenton compares Freeman to B.J. Upton.

As Joe wrote yesterday, fan and media sharks are circling around Freeman. Joe doesn’t expect this to stop until Freeman has a strong September — if he has one.

One could speculate on a conversation between Greg Schiano and Bill Belicheat when the Pats and Bucs spent three days together last week

Schiano: Bill, whaddya think of Da’Quan Bowers and what he can do this year?

Belicheat: Who?

Schiano: No. 91 at left end.

Belicheat: Trevor Scott is still out there.

Of course, that’s pure guesswork by Joe, but Scott is now a Buccaneer, per the Bucs’ media relations team.

Scott (6-5, 260) comes to the Buccaneers after playing for the New England Patriots last season, where he recorded 14 tackles and 3.0 sacks. Scott spent the first four years of his career with the Oakland Raiders. The five-year veteran has played in 72 games, with 18 starts, totaling 111 tackles, 16.5 sacks, two forced fumbles and one pass defensed.

A native of Potsdam, New York, Scott played collegiately at the University at Buffalo. He entered the NFL as a sixth round selection (169th overall) of the Oakland Raiders in 2008.

Interestingly, Scott is out of Buffalo, the same school where rookie DE Steven Means played college ball.

A veteran like Scott getting signed this late in the game usually means a team is looking for help and not just filling space on a roster. The situation bears close monitoring. Here’s a link to a short feature on Scott following his two-sack game against the Dolphins in December.

One of the great beards in Bucs history has returned.

Mike Williams’ facial garden is again gracing his jaw. Grady Wilson would be proud. Williams now looks darn close to this photo from last year’s training camp.

Williams shaved early last season but told Joe yesterday that the new beard might make it past Christmas.

“I don’t know. It depends how this third preseason game goes right here. I get more playing time in it, so it depends,” Williams said.