Five Things

October 14th, 2019

Joe’s weekly in-season observations of the previous day’s game and what is going on in Bucland.

What to do with Jameis?

The flag at the entrance to the home of America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, is flying at half-mast today.

Yesterday, Jameis had arguably his worst day as a pro with six turnovers — five picks and a fumble lost. It was downright brutal and just about wipes out all the good he had done since the San Francisco loss to open the season.

In two of four Bucs losses this season, Jameis had nine turnovers combined. Good grief!

And while Bucs fans were throwing beer bottles at TVs yesterday morning in blind rage at Jameis, a little nugget came in Joe’s e-mail inbox that demonstrates why the Bucs have yet to give up on Jameis.

Yesterday, Jameis threw for his 100th touchdown and he still has 10 games to go to end his fifth season. No other Bucs quarterback has done that.

Additionally, for quarterbacks 25-and-younger, only five quarterbacks have accomplished this. And all four were damn good quarterbacks: Drew Bledsoe, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and Matthew Stafford.

Now Joe has no idea what Team Glazer, Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht or Bucco Bruce Arians will do with Jameis after this year. Joe has a hunch he will be return next season but two more games like he had yesterday and Joe could easily see the Bucs waving goodbye to him.

That would be a shame.

Over the weekend, Joe read a story typed by Albert Breer of There, Breer interviewed Brady Quinn, Joey Harrington and Tim Couch (who was coached in Cleveland by Arians). All three were supposed to be can’t-miss quarterbacks. Yet they missed.

Three common denominators led to their demise. First, they were drafted by lousy organizations (Browns and Lions). And of course, there was scant talent to make for a good team.

And yes, Jameis was also drafted by a rotten organization. The Bucs, since 2009, have been one of the worst organizations in the NFL if not sports, if you just got by wins and losses.

Another common denominator was they got their arses beat to hell. Both Couch and Quinn had their careers ended early because their bodies were beat up. Harrington got hammered so much he admitted in the story he lost any passion he had for football and reached the point he was just there for a paycheck.

What has happened to Jameis since he entered the NFL? He’s gotten pounded. It started with absorbing the most QB hits in the league during his rookie season. Fortunately for him, the injuries haven’t been too severe.

The third common denominator between the three former quarterbacks is admitted to losing confidence. Remember what Bucco Bruce Arians said he had to work on and rebuild with Jameis? Confidence.

Jameis is a changed quarterback. Yesterday, he sure looked like he was hearing imaginary footsteps. Easy to do when you expect to get drilled on every dropback. Maybe he has a form of PTSD?

Jameis also is a changed quarterback from when he was a rookie, where he displayed so much hope and ability. Remember when Jameis, to finish his rookie season, pounded on the podium with his fist in anger over yet another loss and said when the Bucs have enough players in the locker room who care about winning as much as the coaches, then the team would win?

Where is that same quarterback now? When have you last seen Jameis make an impassioned speech in anger over teammates not holding up their ends of the bargain? Those days seem long gone. You see little of that fire from Jameis any longer. Is this what Harrington experienced?

If Jameis moves on after this season, he will become yet another good college quarterback who is drafted by a sad organization whose losing and dysfunction eventually swallows him up and spits him out.

Leftwich Underwhelming

Joe remembers this summer suggesting that perhaps current Bucs offensive coordinator Byron Leftwich was part of the reason why quarterback Josh Rosen failed in Arizona. After all, Leftwich was both Rosen’s quarterback coach and later, his offensive coordinator.

Bucs fans freaked out on Joe for daring to suggest that. Well, after six games, does it appear that Leftwich is the next Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan?

Remember when fans used to complain about how Chucky couldn’t figure out a way to get both Joey Galloway and Antonio Bryant on the field at the same time? Joe has similar questions about Leftwich, and Leftwich does not have the resumé Chucky had.

Why is it the Bucs cannot find a way to get O.J. Howard more involved in the passing game? Or even Cam Brate? Why can’t Leftwich scheme a way, for example, to have Chris Godwin lineup wide along with Mike Evans, and have Brate or Howard line up in the slot in place of Godwin?

Instead, Leftwich seems bound and determined to force passes to Scotty Miller, who Joe has yet to see get any separation. At times, Bobo Wilson is on the field trying to pretend to be an NFL wide receiver.

Miller and Wilson are no mismatches for any defender in the league. Howard and Brate are. Yet the Bucs, struggle to get tight ends involved in the passing game.

Hell, Joe could find a dozen two-bit high school coaches who could figure out a way to get the tight ends more involved.

Through six games, Joe is not overly impressed with Leftwich. Some of his playcalls are headscratchers. And why he can’t find a way to get his best pass catchers on the field at the same time running pass routes is frustrating as hell.

So what will Jason Licht do?

Quick research on the interwebs reveals it takes some nine hours to fly from London to Tampa. So Joe is guessing Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht had plenty of time to map out and research his next plan to somehow get the Bucs on the right path.

Joe is of the mind the Bucs must find a cornerback if they have a serious desire to make a run at a wild card. The secondary is a bloody mess. And doing nothing isn’t going to make things better. Players are not going to magically improve enough to become competent in the next 10 weeks.

The Bucs only need a decent corner. You know, a starter who doesn’t go out and embarrass himself on gamedays. Doesn’t have to be a Pro Bowler. Just someone competent.

If Licht doesn’t believe the secondary needs an immediate upgrade, if he is fine with rolling the dice with the guys currently on the roster, then that tells Joe that Licht is playing for the draft. Joe is a big believer in you either play for a playoff berth or you play for a draft pick. Anything else is basically just p!ssing on your shoes.

And Joe is OK if the Bucs are playing for the draft. If that is the case, then the Bucs ought to be shipping out players.

Joe just knows Licht doing nothing may be the worst decision of them all. Joe swears the next time someone tries to tell him the Bucs have talent enough to win and get to the playoffs, Joe will scream!

Doubtful Offensive Line Cavalry

The right side of the offensive line yesterday was a trainwreck. It was expected as injured Alex Cappa and Demar Dotson, the Bucs right guard and right tackle, respectively, were out.

Joe wanted the Bucs to go out and get help for the right side. Hearing Bucco Bruce Arians speak after yesterday’s game, that doesn’t sound like it will happen.

Why? Because there is a shot Dotson returns in two weeks for the Tennessee-Ready Game II, the Sunday after next weekend’s bye. And both Cappa and Dotson could both be back in the lineup in three weeks when the Bucs travel to Seattle, as Arians explained Wednesday.

So if the Bucs only need to suck it up one more week with a sieve on the right side of their line, that tells Joe the Bucs aren’t going to burn the midnight oil looking for another right guard or tackle.

Triggered By Vernon Hargreaves

Man, Joe posted a thoughtful, reasoned suggestion yesterday that the Bucs ought to shop cornerback Vernon Hargreaves. It seems, at this point in the season, the Bucs will not bring Hargreaves back for his fifth year unless Hargreaves decides to take a significant cut in pay.

So Joe thinks it would be smart to test the trade waters with Hargreaves to see what might be snagged. You would have thought the way Bucs fans reacted on Twitter that Joe offered for the Bucs to trade Mike Evans.

The top complaint Joe got sort of went along these lines, “You dumbarse, you won’t get anything for him.”

First off, no one knows this. Second, if you get any kind of a draft pick, it’s better than just tossing the guy in the gutter and getting nothing in return. But, it seems, some people want to prove some odd point by doing just that, cutting him because they are so angry at Hargreaves and his less than stellar play.

“Who would be the moron who would trade for Hargreaves?” Well, you don’t know if you don’t ask. There are all kinds of examples of teams trading draft picks for players who are all pointing down in their careers.

Joe remembers Indianapolis trading a first-round pick for Trent Richardson, last seen slumming it in the AAF. Joe also remembers the Bears trading the 11th overall pick in the draft for a piece of garbage like Rick Mirer.

And, lest Bucs fans forget, an idiot traded a second-round pick to the Bucs for that stiff of a player Gaines Adams. And to think the Bucs later hired that same idiot to run the entire football operations. And people wonder why the Bucs still stink out loud! (Which is worse, trading a second-round pick for Adams or cutting Darrelle Revis?) This little nugget lit the light bulb in Joe’s head. So this is why Lovie ran off former Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik. It is because Dominik got over on Lovie big time. Lovie couldn’t have a guy work for him who shamed  across the league.

Bad/failed players get traded all the time. Just because someone may hate Hargreaves doesn’t mean the Bucs should be irresponsible and skip trying searching for a sap out there who would take him off their hands for a draft pick.

If Hargreaves isn’t going to be back, and if you can find a team to cough up a draft pick, that would be a smart move in Joe’s eyes.

95 Responses to “Five Things”

  1. miken Says:

    “yesterday, Jameis had arguably his worst day as a pro”…. its like we say that 4 or 5 times every season for the past 5 years. How much longer are we going to do this?

  2. tmaxcon Says:

    Everything is fine joe…. glazers hired another full of s!!t washed up has been that is failing. Basement title streak is alive and well. Not sure how anyone with a brain thought this season would be any different.

    When you gamble going into the season with ZERO startes at 2 critical position groups you get what you deserve. You marpet fans better rewatch that punk. He gets sexually assaulted on every play and likes it… it’s a passing league and bucs roll with an xfl secondary and oline…. results are exactly what glazers intended

  3. ChanEpic Says:

    My 5 things:
    Jameis could throw for 100 more TDs this season and we would all still be sketched out watching him make starts.

    This team is AWFUL. No depth outside of the WRs, no consistency for any unit, nobody over achieving on a game in and game out basis. AWFUL.

    Licht is, uhhhh, no so smart, IMO.

    Leftwhich has nothing to work with except for WRs and TEs and he only uses TEs sparingly.

    BA better make sure his heart/health is strong, because this team sticks a dagger in mine every other weekend.

  4. BucDan Says:

    Every team runs crossing routes / drags against our slow corners.

    We do not run the same routes due to (IMO) Winston’s lack of accuracy towards laterally moving targets.

    Our OC and offensive identity, although ahead of Koetter’s offense, is behind the new NFL – filled with multiple moving pieces and misdirection to keep the defenses confused.

    Even simple off tackle zone runs by SF, Rams and Panthers had a motion from a WR to keep defenses guessing.

    We need playmakers in our secondary, like, yesterday.

    And a reassessment of the current roster and where all of the money is tied up. Because it is obvious that we need an infusion of talent.

  5. SteveK Says:

    QB and GM are holding this team back.

    I am beyond pissed off and tired by losing from the same
    Outcome: shoddy QB play, and a piss poor secondary.

    The #5 overall
    Pick looked good getting stiff armed yesterday. Why can’t we cover, despite several high picks on DBs? When do we got to lose by another outcome?

    Licht can’t fix it. Dominik was fried for less. Schiano was spot on in calling us a “laughingstock”. We suck, and we have two weeks to sit and pick apart the reasons why: Licht-Jameis.

  6. D-Rome Says:

    Joe, it would not be a shame if the Bucs waved goodbye to Jay-Miss. Breaking Buccaneer records on offense is meaningless in today’s NFL. Everyone blaming the offensive line needs to check themselves. The Bucs O-Line is not the worst in the NFL. There are other QBs are dealing with injuries to their offensive line and they are still producing.

    The Titans finally made the right call with Marcus Mariota and you can bet it was an organizational decision. Jay-Miss does not need more time or more development. He’s been here long enough. He is what he is. He’s more Ryan Fitzpatrick than Peyton Manning. Joe, it’s a joke and a disgrace you put Jay-Miss’ name in the same sentence as Peyton Manning. Manning was an MVP by his 5th season.

    Also, some of you fans can’t have it both ways. You can’t support Jay-Miss and think that Jason Licht is a good GM. One of them needs to go, and it should be both of them.

  7. Casual Observer Says:

    Inclined to push for Griffin to get a shot. Although on our bench for 5 years, he has never thrown an NFL pass. Some of these rookie QBs do pretty well. Though he may not fare any better than Winston with this OL. Hargreaves continually disappoints and should be benched, imo.

  8. D-Rome Says:

    BA better make sure his heart/health is strong, because this team sticks a dagger in mine every other weekend.

    tmaxcon always says this and it’s true, paid Glazer vacation. Coach Band-Aid hasn’t changed anything in this organization.

  9. Locked In Says:

    I think the question they have to answer is can Vernon play in the slot. He seemed better when he played there, and we don’t have enough experienced players yet to just let him go for peanut. Trade for a vet corner, try Smith at corner, give Dean some playing time, Davis on the other side and Vernon in slot. Couldn’t get any worse? After this season renegotiate his contract or let him walk.

  10. Jason Says:

    I’ve just about had it with my Bucs. I’ve been a fan for over 30 years and its just getting to be too much.

    The xfl draft is coming up, and I see that someone (Joe maybe?) has registered joevipersfan, so F it. Go Vipers!!!

  11. miken Says:

    “Where is that same quarterback now?”…. He has always been careless w the football and that won’t fly in the pros. He takes a ponding bc he holds the ball way to long trying to make something happen. He has plenty of weapons but he himself is responsible for a lot of the losing and where this franchise is.
    Vh3 could find a trade partner bc he’s a good corner on the right team. What he aint is a guy that can cover WR1 in man and thats why michael thomas was open 24/7 last week

  12. Leighroy Says:

    These are all ancillary issues, symptomatic of this fact: The OL and DL need to be reconstructed.

    Some guy named Duck and Gardner Minchew are performing as serviceable QBs bc they play behind decent OLs who can run the ball and protect. Not to mention all the other premier QBs drafted since Jameis who, to Joe’s point, have found their way into better situations. Even the most simple play calling can be effective when your OL can win in the trenches. Even Jerry Jones figured out to focus draft capital on the trenches before importing premier skill talent. The Bucs haven’t won on the OL in a decade.

    DL: being built to stop the run at an elite level is great! If it’s the 1980’s. The panthers and many other teams proved for a while that focusing on front 7 can mask a dumpster fire in the secondary. No pass rush will leave the VH3’s SMB’s and others exposed. Blitzing 6 and loosing additional bodies in coverage does the same when everyone gets blocked.

    There is just so much bass ackwards about this organization that it’s an exercise in insanity watching this team every week. Our family is letting our 4 season tix expire after this year and no ones upset about it. I doubt we’ll be the only ones….

  13. Jeebs the Honey Bear Says:

    Yesterday I watched as the last last of the Jameis apologists gave up on him. I have been saying for years that a lot of what ends up defining a QB is what situation they get drafted into. But I’m sorry, even with all these weapons, and a decent enough OL, Jameis can’t get past Jameis. He just doesn’t have what it takes. Sure, he could win on a team with a great defense, great running game, and great pass protection. But then so could many lesser QBs. A franchise QB finds ways to win, and Jameis finds ways to lose. He will not succeed in Tampa Bay. We need to focus on improving this team outside of QB, and then we can find our Minshew or Kyle Allen, unheralded guys winning on good teams. We don’t need a number one pick QB, how often does that work out anyways.

  14. Wombat Says:

    Sign Colin Kaepernick, this $hit show needs to spiral to the next level…. will become must see viewing!!!!

  15. Hodad Says:

    Joe, the Bucs didn’t turn Jameis into a turn over machine, he was one when they drafted him. It’s always been the knock on him, and it’s just what he is. The Jets gave up 10 sacks last week, and hadn’t won a game. Darnold comes back, and he’s only sacked once, and they get their first win. I watched the game. The commentators were marveling about how quick he went through his progressions, and how fast he got the ball out. They were right. Watching him after watching Jameis the difference was obvious. Did I mention how accurate he was too? How smooth he looked doing it? Jameis looks like someone is sticking pins in his voodoo doll when he drops back. Joe, it’s pro bowler, America’s QB Jameis Winston who is the Bucs biggest problem. No corner, no right tackle, no other player can change the Bucs. Licht needs to be fired, and Jameis needs to go with him. That’s the only thing that will really change the fortunes of this franchise.

  16. BeeBucs Says:

    I would trade Hargreaves to Philly for OT Vaitai!!!!

  17. AKickInTheBucNuts Says:

    My 5 things:

    1. PLEASE
    2. FIRE
    3. JASON
    4. LICHT
    5. TODAY

  18. Defense Rules Says:

    Excellent, thought-provoking analysis Joe. The ‘Jameis-5th-year-experiment’ reminds me of a (fictional) book that we used to chuckle about titled ’50 Yards to the Outhouse’ written by Willie Makeit & illustrated by Betty Dont. The reasons that he’s struggled for his first 4 years are still here: OLine, RBs, defense, coaching. And yet, despite those factors, Jameis has always been his own worst enemy. Good talent, hard-worker, but inconsistent as all git-out.

    Agree with you totally on Leftwich. He’s in way over his head & it’s up to his HC to FIX IT. How he does that is up to BA, but it’s HIS responsibility to hold his OC ACCOUNTABLE for his performance. If that means mentoring him closer, fine. If that means replacing him, fine also. Just don’t let this continue because it’s hurting the TEAM big-time.

    Jason Lichtweight will do NOTHING. Well, to clarify that, he’s do NOTHING of any consequence. We might drag in another stiff or two, but that’s not a solution to our woes. That shipped sailed months ago, and the cost of jumping onboard now is way too high.

    Vernon Hargreaves needs to be benched. Next.

  19. AllhailJPP Says:

    As Colonel Troutman said. Its over Johnny!! its over!

  20. Ndog Says:

    Yep let’s bring a rookie QB in to play with a #1 WR that doesn’t come back to the ball, drops the ball and quits on routes. A TE that just can’t catch and rarely gets open, a swing gate for an offensive line, no running game and a defense that lets an undrafted backup go 99 yards on them for a TD. He will come in and thrive in those circumstances, I mean who wouldn’t. What could go wrong?

  21. simsini Says:

    The Bucs team store should have a Winston jersey amnesty. Get $30 off any other jersey if you trade your Winston jersey in the same transaction.

  22. SteveK Says:


    Will Jameis play for the equivalent of a rookie salary, because his consistency is on par with a rookie’s, as far as expectations would go.

    I’d take Gardner Minshew or Kyle Allen over Jameis. Jameis is so inconsistent, you can’t expect a team to go to the playoffs with that bad of play. Sorry, can’t stomach it anymore. Still rocking my Jameis jersey, but dude sucks out loud and it can’t be spun. No more lipstick on that pig. 💄 🐖 😞😞

  23. Slugglife Says:

    Gonna be a long two weeks.

  24. Bucs Fan Since ‘76 Says:

    Joe, where is the evidence that Licht can “map” out a successful go forward strategy? His overall track record is far worse than the Rock Star. And the Glazers just extended his contract. Why? Because he convinced Bruce Arians to come here?

  25. Jean Lafitte Says:

    How do you know the Bucs haven’t looked into trading Hargreaves? It’s so easy for us on the outside to make these suggestions but I’m positive it’s not that easy. Giving up a still serviceable 1st round pick for a bag of donuts sets you up as a sucker in future trades. Like the stupid one we did with Revis while he was in major injury protocol for $1,000.000.00 a game. We helped the Jets out of purgatory.

    Hargreaves should not be moved for no less than an early 3rd rounder or a player of equal value.

  26. Dewey Selmon Says:

    I’m glad J. Dean was active yesterday, he looked great out there…Justin Watson too…

  27. H8JWLVEBUCS Says:

    The reason why the Bucs fail every year is because they have the worse scouting team in the world. 5 years and no playoff how about that stat Joe, JW is not and will not ever listen to his coaches because if he did he would be a better player by no.

  28. Game film doesn't lie Says:

    The Jamies conundrum is the jeckle and Hyde play. The alternative to a QB that turns over the ball alot is going back to the 175yd 1td play where in the end we still lose the game because we can’t get first downs or score enough. Average QB play doesn’t win with mediocre Defense. No QB can win consistently with a defense giving up 500 yds a game passing, no matter how much you stop the run. I know Jameis is not the answer, but a loss is a loss, whether it’s a 400 yd 5 turnover day or 175 yd 1 td day. If you lose 35 to 13…or 35 to 28…it’s still a loss

  29. Ndog Says:

    Like I said SteveK let’s replace him as who couldn’t succeed with everything around them playing horribly? I’m sure that has nothing to do with two mistakes the entire game from him. I love people blaming him for errors clearly caused by others. Watch today when Arians talk he’s going to say the first pick was cause Evans didn’t break back to the ball, the second pick cause was his arm got hit, the third was a fourth down forced throw because on third down Evans AGAIN didn’t break back to the ball and the fifth one Evans didn’t even bother to turn around. I know you are to say excuses but if Jameis gets hammered fir holding the ball to long and getting strip sacked and throwing the bar pick to theme MLB why shouldn’t the others get ripped for their issues which caused their TOs? It’s just crap. And thats not even mentioning the four drops between Evans and Howard one that would have been a 75 yard TD!

    So yeah blame one guy but if the other players do the same thing they did yesterday the results will be no different no matter who they play at QB. THIS IS WHAT YOU GUYS JUST DON’T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND

  30. Sleepy903 Says:

    I’m convince that many of our fans only look at stats and don’t actually watch the games or don’t know anything about football. Our best plays are out routes and hitches unfortunately.

    Our OC doesnt know how to put a game plan together and its obvious. With as much pressure as the Panthers were getting yesterday quick screens in multiple variations should have been used to slow down the rush. We should have been making their D-linemen run sideline to sideline. Instead we continued to run Long developing pass plays on 1st and 3rd downs. 1st down we were taking sacks or rushing throws. 3rd downs on the ones we converted was because of max protection. We cant continue to have 3 players going out for routes against 5 DB’s w/ 2 LBers playing underneath because they dont have to worry about their man going out for a pass.

    If BA and BL want to continue to call long developing plays then they need to get the linemen in here for that. The only WR getting seperation on routes other than outs and hitch is the slot WR. But that was taken away yesterday because the LB were back in coverage because doubling anything coming over the middle.

    The HC, OC and DC all go out coached yesterday and its on BA to hold both Coordinators accountable. The players did not execute. The Oline is horrible and a 75% Dotson and Cappa maybe slightly better than yesterday however it still wont make a difference w/ the type of plays called.

    I hate the Cowboys but Dak and Zeke had a Phenominal rookie year because the Oline was elite. After that year they lost two of their Olinemen and they havent been the same. It takes Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady Peyton Manning type of players to make up for not having an above average Oline. If we are going to keep an average to below average oline we better draft a dual threat QB otherwise we will continue w the same results drafting QB’s and ruining their potential due to them never being comfortable enough to get in rhythm.

    Its funny both Mariota and Winston’s Oline lead the league in Sacks allowed. The GM’s want to give them all these weapons but dont protect them so they have enough time to throw.

    Start trading players aquire picks and grab some Olinemen in the early rounds, A shut down corner a edge rusher and grab a QB in 2021 draft that will be protected. Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields

  31. Jean Lafitte Says:

    What some of us seem to forget is that there’s a premium on corners.

  32. SteveK Says:


    Michael Clayton, former Bucs WR, said Jameis was LATE on the first throw. Go back and watch it. The ball
    Is supposed to be there when Evans turns around.

    You can’t blame Mike Evans for this all. How was Evans able to get good numbers with Josh McCown and Mike Glennon?

    Mike Evans can’t be Mike Evans with inconsistent QB play.

    The whole team suffers when the QB becomes a major liability.

    Why not draft a rookie, pay them peanuts, and not pay Jameis $20 million per? The shenanigans are over. It must stop. It’s become a circus 🎪 with clowns 🤡 everywhere!

  33. Pete I Says:

    Nobody cares anymore NDOG.

    Winston is not the answer. And never will be.

    A rookie will suffer as would a vet but doing the same thing is what NDOG suggests. NDOG suggestion is sign Jameis for a long term deal and contunue to lose for long term. Folly.

    No one is only blaming the lousy QB, the whole team is terrible. But Winston stands out as a failure on a team of failures.

  34. H8JWLVEBUCS Says:


  35. 813bucboi Says:

    lots of holes in those 5 things joe:

    JW has had games like this with each of his HC’s….lovie-titans…dirk-bengals…bruce- panthers……he’ll continue to have games like this…..

    the other thing that you forgot to mention when comparing JW to joey, tim and brady is that they were mentally weak QBs…..when things went wrong, they snow balled and crumbled….and thats exactly what happens every time when JW faces adversity….he crumbles and embarrasses himself…..

    byron was only rosen’s OC for half the season……you mustve forgotten that ken whisenhunt was the OC and was in charge of developing rosen……KW spent TC and PS working with JR……byron took over once the damage was already done…..

    the same situation happened here last year with smitty…..he was canned, duff took over and things never got better…..but no one is blaming duff…..why?…because smitty was here installing/teaching his defense thru TC and PS…..

    gotta blame KW not BL for rosen and the same can be said for JW because we’ve seen horrible games from him before…..

    gotta draft DE’s……pass rush helps the secondary…..the problem has been the pass rush…..but licht and so many others have yet to figure that out…..

    aw yes….this years punching bag and scapegoat……..

    i’ll be the first to say he hasnt lived up to what i thought he would be BUT we havent had a pass rush since he’s been here…..JPP got 12.5 sacks last year but VHG was out the entire year…..outside of shaq, we have no pass rush…..any WR can get open against any CB IF the QB has all day to throw…….

    let me break it down:
    winston was heavy pressure yesterday and he threw multiple INTs and had a fumble……the panthers QB was not pressured, did not throw and INT or fumble and had time to sit in the pocket and find the open man…..

    BTW: carlton davis and SMB have been just as bad as VHG….they arent lighting it up in the secondary……and at time whitehead has gotten beat in coverage……

    bottom line is: JAMEIS WINSTON IS A BUST…..he is not the answer…..

    GO BUCS!!!!!!!

  36. Jean Lafitte Says:

    So what Ndog is constantly trying to hammer home is that everything has to be absolutely perfect for Jameis to win games. It’s never his fault although the ball goes through Jameis’s hands 100% of the time. I think anyone who watches the game objectively can tell, is that Jameis has issues.

  37. SteveK Says:

    Winston hold the ball way too long, hence the sacks. He doesn’t make the decision timely enough.

    Year five. Time to take over.

    #1 overall picks are not supposed to be a liability.

  38. ClodHopper Says:

    Pre season consensus: This is Jameis’ prove it year. No more excuses

    5 weeks in: Excuses up the arse

    Year in and year out. It’s as predictable as a Jameis turnover.

    It’s a good thing we get ignored by the national media. Remember how Romo was treated for not nearly as many turnovers as Jameis? Were lucky hes invisible to the rest of the league. The only reason were not laughing stocks is because no one cares.

  39. Sleepy903 Says:

    @ Pete I
    I dont think you sign him longterm unless you get him for cheap w/ minimal guaranteed money for 2-3 years and draft his replacement. I dont think that would work. However I do think you franchise him and draft his replacement in 2021 after attempt to draft and take care of all the other holes on the offensive lines and secondary.

  40. SteveK Says:

    We need to wake up and smell the roses!

    What does “The Buc Realist” say: “The only thing worse than not having a franchise QB is thinking you do, when you don’t.

  41. BrianBucs Says:


    You failed to explain why Gerald McCoy got 2.5 sacks yesterday

  42. Ndog Says:

    You people are so clueless. So as a QB when you have one person that actually plays that you can trust what do you expect?

    So are you saying he shouldn’t drive back to the ball but the corner should?
    Are you saying he shouldn’t catch a perfectly thrown deep ball for a HUGE TD?
    Are you saying he should just stop his route and let the DB break in front of him for another PBU?
    Are you saying he should start jogging during his route when had one on one deep and then still have it be catchable only to miss it again?

    Lastly are you saying that if he does two of things right, which would still be a bad game, that it wouldn’t have made a difference in the game?

  43. Hodad Says:

    This is the team that Licht built. He’s had three coaches now with the same results. He’s had six drafts to fix both lines, and couldn’t do it. He had a shot at a franchise QB, and blew it. Remember he could’ve drafted Derek Carr his first season as GM but passed. The guy doesn’t know Sh#t from shineola when it comes to evaluating talent. He’s the reason we continue to suck, and will do so until the Glazers wake from their comma, and see what a fool they hired.

  44. zzbuc Says:

    I am saying this for the last two years, WE HAVE A MUCH LESS TALENTED ROSTER THAN WHAT EVERYBODY THINKS!!!!
    Wholes everywhere and no busget!!!!!
    We blame Koetter, we blame Lovie, and now we blame Arins/Leftwich….

    The problem is way more much deeper, the problem is we made very bad deictions on management level in the last 10 years……

    We´ve been picking in the draft on top 10 positions for several years, outside Mike Evans and Talib, wich one is an exatrodrinary player….just name me one….. JW? VEa? Hardgreaves?Calyborn? Freeman?Adams?Williams?
    Does any wants to do the list on the free agency market?
    Guys sooner or later we have to be honest with ourselves…..

    This franchise is way beyond ridiculous and is getting worst and worst and worst.
    I just can think than anybody with average knowledge on football can even think that we can pay JW!!!!! What else do you need in order to realize jw is not a NFL starting QB??? 5 years of inconsistency, He can do great plays, but he makes to many mistakes, and on the NFL, you are going to pay badly if you make so many mistakes…..
    So JW and Licht have to be gone as later as now!!!!!
    But we all know he has a new contract, and we all know he is an Arians boy now…….So at the end we can conlcude we are FUC*ED!!!!

  45. SteveK Says:

    The definition of insanity is continuing to lose by bad secondary, and QB play.

    Our #5 overall pick got bitched by McCaffrey.

    Boy, why can’t we draft better or play QB better. The ineptness of this franchise knows no bounds.

    We are awful. No cap space, terrible/clueless GM, and the worst QB starter in the game. No one turns the ball over like this joker. No one. Not even Bortles. Damn we suck. Damn. Damn. Damn. Stop saying Jameis doesn’t deserve blame. It’s so maddening to witness all of the excuses. They are like farts. Loud, windy, hot air, and terrible. Stop with the Bull Spit!

  46. SteveK Says:


    Evans should have had the ball delivered to him on time.

    Jameis is not only inaccurate, but he also lacks timeliness.

  47. SteveK Says:


    Why does every other NFL QB suck less at turning the ball over? I’m tired of excuses and trying to figure it out. Jameis is not the answer.

  48. Alanbucsfan Says:

    Sad thing when talent is wasted.
    Jameis is just too inconsistent and he gives his teammates no confidence.
    He’s just not a good pro qb, period. A rookie free agent’s performance kicked his ass yesterday.
    Secondary rightfully gets alot of criticism, but QB Sacks and Turnovers keep the defense on the field. The D needs a pass rusher and an elite corner, as do every other D in NFL.
    Can’t make excuses- Jameis is not the answer. He flat out stinks, and looking great 4-5 games per year and stinking the other 10-11 doesn’t cut it.

  49. tmaxcon Says:

    BrianBucs Says:
    October 14th, 2019 at 9:08 am


    You failed to explain why Gerald McCoy got 2.5 sacks yesterday

    No explanation needed pal… Joe’s bud light swigging arse could get 2.5 sacks against this xfl reserve offensive line that Licht and the Glazers rolled with…

  50. zzbuc Says:

    Ndog, Mike Evans, is not only the best player on the roster, is the best thing that happened on the BUCS for the last 15 yhears!!!!!
    How dare you!!!!

  51. tmaxcon Says:

    bucs organization is and always has been a joke outside of gruden’s glory year so why are you fools surprised…. very confusing… this team has no hope and will never sniff a playoff win again. glazers have ZERO intentions of fielding a respectable product, if you think otherwise you need a rubber room and therapy.

  52. Ndog Says:

    SteveK when you drop back every play and your oline sucks most QBs do have TOs see Jared Goff vs us. But then again you don’t care because it’s all Jameis’s fault. We just are in that situation a lot more than most teams cause we have no running game and our defense is God awful.

  53. tmaxcon Says:

    zzbuc Says:
    October 14th, 2019 at 9:19 am

    Ndog, Mike Evans, is not only the best player on the roster, is the best thing that happened on the BUCS for the last 15 yhears!!!!!
    How dare you!!!!

    mike evans is a very talented receiver and yes the best the bucs have ever had but that does not give him a free pass. he losses concentration often and rarely makes the huge play that the elite receivers make.

    i am an evans fan but he played lazy at times yesterday. looks defeated too often and is not the mentally toughest tool in the shed.

  54. SteveK Says:


    Why does RoJo only get four touches?

    I can call better plays.

    To me, it’s a travesty to see no targets to the TEs, but plenty for Humphries little brother- who can’t even carry his jock.

    And punt returner blows ass.

    I’m so pissed Jason Licht is in charge still. He and Jameis are the combined worst HC/GM in the game, with TB12/BB being #1. It’s not even close. Which QB in the game is worse and starting? And which GM gets an extension for down right sucking?

    It’s ok though, we got a good head coach.

    Coaching can’t overcome inadequate talent and dumb ass QB play- especially considering he’s in year five and was the number one overall pick.

    In a passing league, we draft a middle linebacker with the fifth pick. What. The. Hell.

    We pass on other guys in the second round every year, in favor for crappy players.

    Let’s go Bucs! Get your phucking sh!t together!

  55. Jean Lafitte Says:

    Evans misses DJax

  56. D-Rome Says:

    Pre season consensus: This is Jameis’ prove it year. No more excuses

    5 weeks in: Excuses up the arse

    Seriously man, there are people in Tampa Bay that would give him another five years because we allegedly don’t have the correct pieces around him. Take away the interceptions and fumbles yesterday and you still have a guy that overthrows receivers, throws too often into tight windows (that is *not* a good stat to be a leader in), and makes shaky looking throws half the time. He is a younger version of Ryan Fitzpatrick. For stretches Jameis truly is amazing but then for other stretches he is terrible and inconsistent. Interceptions where’s the receiver is at fault is understandable, but you cannot blame the offensive line in those instances where he is literally passing it to the other team. Why make that pass the Luke Kuechley? What did he see there? There’s no excuse for that and he’s made too many throws like that in his career.

  57. Cobraboy Says:

    I agree:

    Winston is not going to lead any team to glory.

    Leftwich is underwhelming.

    Hargreaves is a bust as a #1.

  58. Cobraboy Says:

    The OL is not the cause of Winston’s boneheadedness.

    Winston is.

    I am very weary of Winston.

  59. Troy Says:

    Does anyone think that Manning, Bledsoe, Marino, or Stafford would have been QBing if they played like this for their first 5 years in the league? They under 25 thing means absolutely nothing. Just watch the games.

  60. zzbuc Says:

    With all due respect.

    Mike Evans is making every record on Bucs history with an extraordinary inconsistent QB, he is doublee team most of the plays, and he still plays great.
    I do agree with you that sometimes he looks defeated…..WHO WOULDN´T????
    Is not easy to make all this plays during his years with JW incosistency and innacuracy, and playing with a loosing tewam every single season. WGO WOULDN´T???

  61. John Says:

    Howard is a bust. He is not a mismatch for anyone or any team. He’s locked up by lbs, safeties, and corners on a weekly basis. Do you watch the film or just reminisce on his combine numbers?

  62. El Buco Realisto Says:

    If you are not discussing who the new GM is to lead the full rebuild, then you are just wasting time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The “real” fans warned the sheep long ago!!!!!!!!!!! And know the TRUTH and the obvious has been exposed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The sheep would try and argue paint color of One Buc when it is on fire and burning to the ground!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  63. Bird Says:

    Here’s the thing joe left out of the 100 tds Jameis has thrown

    He has 87 turnovers . 87. 68 picks and 19 fumbles lost
    That doesn’t seem possible.

    And look at last game for the people that harp on the 100 tds
    How many games have been out a hand from the beginning just like the game yesterday. Those late tds are there for the taking cause the other team goes full turtle and goes into prevent both offensively and defensively.

    87 turnovers but in Ndog s reasoning only 25 are really Jameis fault. I mean 100 tds to 25 turnovers is 4 to 1 ratio. Too bad he lives in fantasy land

  64. A Train Says:

    Focusing on Winston only here, although there is plenty other things wrong with this franchise (O-line, GM, secondary, kicker).

    He is careless with the ball at times and holds on to it too long other times. He is no where near athletic enough to escape from trouble. All this adds up to a bunch of INTs, sacks, and fumbles.

    You simply cannot do this and win in the NFL. In his 5th year and with several different coaches, he is now the common denominator.

  65. Pewter power Says:

    If they end up with a top ten draft pick winston will be gone. Cant finish in the top ten 4 out of 5 years after drafting a quarterback 1st overall I dont care about his buc records. He’s an embarrassment and most quarterbacks that came in after the Mariota winston draft has had more success than both of them. Bye felicia I’m tired of watching winston look like an amateur when the spotlight is on.

  66. 813bucboi Says:

    winston is a bust at #1 overall pick former heisman trophy winner…

    winston is a complete BUST……

    when you’re drafted #1 overall, have 1 winning season, no playoff appearances, on your 3rd HC and broken blake brotles turnover records, your a complete bust……

    GO BUCS!!!!!!!

  67. Carrollwood Mafia Says:

    If we are out of things by the trade deadline, then we need to ship players out for some draft picks. Suh to the Chiefs makes a ton of sense. If we aren’t going to resign Shaq Barrett, then trade him as well. We need to have a plan moving forward.

  68. BucTooth Says:

    Turn off the lights Buc’s fan’s the party’s over. That’s all i have to say about that.

  69. El Buco Realisto Says:


    You just figured that out now??????? Head coach Koetter told you that when he benched him a year ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the problem with the sheep!!!!!! They always figure it out a year or two too late!!!!!!! Just like 813 who thought it was all coaching months ago when in reality , he grew up a rube and won’t listen when we teach him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    #Sheep Exposed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already knew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  70. tmaxcon Says:

    zzbuc Says:
    October 14th, 2019 at 9:30 am
    With all due respect.

    Mike Evans is making every record on Bucs history with an extraordinary inconsistent QB, he is doublee team most of the plays, and he still plays great.

    funny you mentioned that same inconsistent quarterback also OWNS EVERY FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK RECORD IN TAMPA….. so try again!!!!

    Jamies had a horrible day no doubt but this franchise has sucked long before jameis and will suck long after jameis.

    jameis is an easy target but this organization could not develop maggots out of feces….

  71. tmaxcon Says:

    you act like all this is new but outside of evans this team has not developed a first round pick since sapp…. turth hurts ladies… and sapp developed the franchise… the franchise did not develop him….

  72. Cgmaster27 Says:

    813 its pathetic that you even try to defend you home boy vh3. Back up qbs are purposely targeting that fraud of a db. Hes an easy completiom every time you throw at him. Give it up already.

  73. Bruce Blahak Says:


  74. AlteredEgo Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    Jamyth peaked his first year in college when his had Benjamin to throw to against CBs longer playing football……the reality is he will NEVER be an elite NFL QB…
    Hey…I still have some shares left over from the Dot.Com bubble…still waiting for them to come back…Vern !

  75. 813bucboi Says:


    please answer these questions?……

    outside of shaq, do we have a pass rush?….
    outside of shaq, how many sacks do we have?

    its pathetic that you try to defend your boy JW when he’s in his 5th year, 3rd HC and still having games like this…..

    give it up dude…..JW is a bust!!!!!

    GO BUCS!!!!!!

  76. BA FAN Says:

    Tmaxcon painted McCoy as a softie who was a cancer and washed up due to his age. However McCoy playing as a DE overpowered our best OLineman and sacked Jameis numerous times today. Tmaxcon was dead wrong on his projection. It was obvious that the Panthers were targeting Vernon Hargreaves who is too slow to keep up with Samuel. Hargreaves should only be playing the slot. Dean should have been on Samuel and Davis should have had the other WR (until Bunting develops into a starter). Playing Zone was the disaster. We should have been jamming the receivers and playing them close. I would have preferred for us to have set Jameis down when he was overthrowing passes due to his usual Adrenalin rush and given our backup a chance to play til Jameis settled down and got his head on straight. However, no QB playing behind our OL today could have won the game. It was clear that Whatford and Wells were not anywhere near what we needed. Moreover, there is something wrong with O.J. Howard that has been going on for a number of games. He is trying to catch passes extending only one arm when he should be putting up both hands and high pointing passes. It is as if he has a badly hurt arm. If that is the case he should have been replaced by Auclair. Brate was playing really well and should have been used more often. It was also clear on long passes that Evans wasn’t tracking the ball coming his way which was not like him. He was also slowing down when he had good separation. A time out should have been called and BA should have been holding him accountable right then. It is much tougher for our returner to catch kicks by left footed kickers. Our Special Team Coach should have known about that in advance and had him practicing catching punts from a left footed kicker. BA knew this terrible schedule by the NFL was unfair to us and this problem today proved it. I saw numerous Panthers putting their hands in our face
    masks today without penalties but we got called for it. Shake it off and get ready for the next game.

  77. mark2001 Says:

    Joe…I consider my self a generous guy…but I think two games a year like the two games he has had this year is the limit. A couple more average games might be acceptable…one or two picks with twice the touchdowns and no fumbles would be what I consider “average”. But worse than that…forget it…fifth year…no excuse.

  78. Cgmaster27 Says:

    @814 you see me defending jameis after this game? And yet you constantly make excuses for the worst db in the league. Hes a bust who cant cover anyone. Literally anyone. But hey lets blame the line for him being 10yards behind his reciever on every single play. Hes a BUST!

  79. zzbuc Says:

    Tmaxcon, but there is a HUGE difference,you can count Mike Evand bad games since a buc with only one hand, and JW with both handds and feet aswell.
    You can´t be serious, compàring one an another, …….You just can´t

  80. unbelievable Says:

    Lol at anyone who thinks our o-line isn’t a MASSIVE part of the problem.

    They can’t run block.

    They can’t pass protect.

    How exactly does your offense move the ball then?

    Oh and then mix in multiple 1st round picks dropping balls that hit them in the fkn hands, plus our franchise QB still not learning to throw the damn ball away on the few plays where he does have more than 1.2 seconds to get the ball out.

    This organization has been utter trash for over a decade. It didn’t start with Licht, but it’s not getting any better.

  81. tmaxcon Says:

    BA FAN

    dude your are laughable… fat albert could get sacks against this high school line licht and the glazers built….

    cancer93 is a fraud just like BA…

    cancer93 is and always be the undisputed face of the basement years and a selfish pos…

  82. Oregonbucsfan Says:

    There is just too much crap to fit into a single post. Suh very much > than Cancer 93?! 2 1/2 sacks vs what from Suh? I don’t think I heard his name mentioned. Good call by you jerks that ran him out of town.
    The Great New Hope, D. White, looks like he was coached by Scotty Miller.
    Boo Boo Wilson takes up a roster spot as a punt returner but can’t catch the ball.
    AND….Famous Jameis. What can be said? My hunch is that Ndog is a Bot owned by Jameis to put out the same apologist drivel game after game. Everybody is playing sh!tty so it’s not Winston’s fault that he overthrows his early passes every game, holds the ball too long, and throws strikes to open defenders (see Kuetly int), and can be expected to screw up some how at a critical time.
    Some are complaining that Evans looks bummed out. WHO WOULDN’T be bummed when you played your guts out and the QB is Jameis? The QB sets the table for the offense and when he is hopeless so are the rest of the team.
    We are totally f**ked. The Glaziers are so stupid as to extend the architect of this sh!t show, Dim bulb Licht, and he is obviously incapable of fixing this. Maybe we need to join the missing (10-6) NOSBOS and bail out.

  83. Buccfan37 Says:

    Carolina copied the previous game D rush of the Saints. It worked for the win. Sucks losing a home game in London.

  84. unbelievable Says:

    Oregonbucsfan Says:
    October 14th, 2019 at 12:14 pm

    “Some are complaining that Evans looks bummed out. WHO WOULDN’T be bummed when you played your guts out and the QB is Jameis?”


    Look I don’t blame Evans for being frustrated with all the losing, but you think he was “playing his guts out” ????

    Do you mean quitting on multiple routes, dropping multiple balls that him right in the hands, and blocking about 1/4 as much as he did as a younger receiver?

    Is that what you consider “playing your guts out”? Cuz that’s pretty half-a$$ed in my opinion…

  85. Oregonbucsfan Says:

    To Unbelievable, good comment. No, I didn’t mean to imply that Evans played like that. But, many others in the OL, DL and even DB played as hard as they could. Boo Boo Wilson probably was trying as hard as he could on the punts. He is just no good if he can’t catch it.
    Evans may be the canary in the coal mine when it comes to team attitude.
    I stand by my prior comment otherwise.

  86. Gino Says:

    Is there any kind of mute function on here where I can block Ndog and his consistent homer idiocy? My goodness I look at this game in retrospect and considering the (non) running game and the sieve like blocking I do give Winston a bit of a pass, but you can’t wish away 7 turnovers and say “it’s not Winston it’s everybody else’s fault!!”

    Yo ho ho and a barrel of turd polish

  87. 813bucboi Says:


    VHG hasnt lived up to his 1st round bill….ive stated that plenty of times….but unlike you and the rest of the fsu homers, ive also noticed we dont have a pass rush and our safeties are a liability too….

    oh and CD and SMB are getting burnt just as often as VHG…..

    but folks like you never hold JW accountable…..JW throws 5ints and folks are talking about VHG…….

    JW brakes blake brotles multiple INT in 1game record and folks refuse to call him a bust…LOL….

    as bad as VHG has played, his poor play yesterday didnt cost us the game…..JWs horrible play set the tone on the very first play and HE cost us the game….

    get this thru your head!!!!!!

    JW is more of a bust than VHG will ever be!!!!!!!….JW was the #1 overall pick, national champion and heisman trophy winner…..VHG was pick#11 and wasnt ever considered the best overall CB in his draft……


    GO BUCS!!!!!

  88. Chris l Says:

    The arguments for keeping jameis because of yards and touchdowns is so misguided. So many of both of those come in garbage time after he has coughed it up and put our defense in a predicament. Yes our defense doesn’t always get stops but we always turn it over giving a team a short field and momentum. He isn’t the answer. Talk about a common denominator. We’re an embarrassment.

  89. Joe Says:

    The arguments for keeping jameis because of yards and touchdowns is so misguided.

    Touchdowns are now a bad thing?

    Is this Dirk Koetter?

  90. Oregonbucsfan Says:

    Joe, TDs are not bad but to give Jameis a pass because he puts up Tds and blows other QB assignments is what Chris is saying (I think).

  91. Boltsfan17 Says:

    Bringing JW back will set this franchise back yet another decade.

  92. zorro Says:

    If Miller is a fast/quick as Julius Edleman, put him in a dark room with film and MAKE him learn fast. If they are successful, that’s 2 more wins.
    With my limited knowledge, I can’t figure why he’s not in the slot.
    The Bucs have needed someone like him for 10 years, but only if they will use him.

  93. Joe Says:

    Joe, TDs are not bad but to give Jameis a pass because he puts up Tds and blows other QB assignments is what Chris is saying (I think).

    Joe doesn’t consider 100 touchdowns in less than five years “a pass.” He calls that “production.”

    If everyone is so jizzed about interceptions, then go get Mariota. He doesn’t throw picks. He also doesn’t throw touchdowns which is why he got benched.

  94. Ed Says:

    Joe at this point I’d rather have Kyle Allen, Teddy Bridgewater or any young QB that has quickness. Jameis is mistake prone because of how slowly he plays his position. QBs have to know when to run, when to throw it away and when to go down for the sack. Jameis is so slow, gaining the weight is bad for him, he used to have some escapability but now when he sees rushers on both sides he tries these spin moves and slides right into the pass rush. He isn’t stepping up in the pocket and he still is hesitant to sling it.. He really cannot be salvaged because you can’t make an uncoordinated person into an athlete. He really is clumsy with a terrible habit of eyeing where he’s going with the ball. He’s trying hard, he just doesn’t have the smoothness or cool demeanor to be a good QB. Give us a faster kid that has the skill set to become better as he matures. Jameis 5 years in isn’t much better than he was coming out of FSU

  95. Buczilla Says:

    Jameis has been doing the same dumb $h!t for the last 5 years in the NFL that he was doing at FSU. It is in his makeup to do stupid things on and off the field. He was like this before he started to take a pounding and before he got mind f’d by Koetter. Things are only worse now and it’s time to let him go. Jameis is like that really cute girlfriend that also happens to be an intolerable pain in the ass. At some point, you have to move on. The main thing that you have to ask is, do you think Jameis will ever be a 30 million per year qb? The answer for me is hell no. The Glazers should stop wasting the fan’s time and mandate Jameis be benched so as to not lose the remaining goodwill we have for the team.

    Hargreaves is pathetic at this point. Anything that we can get for him would be awesome, if not unrealistic.

    Super rookie, wasted (so far) 5th overall pick Devin White does not look like the second coming of Nickerson. Hell, he doesn’t even look like the second coming of Eugene Marve.