Ideal Trade?

February 11th, 2018

Target on the Bills roster?

Joe is of the mind that for the Bucs to obtain a defensive end that actually is a difference maker for 2018, AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht is going to have to pull off a trade.

And he may have to do the same at cornerback, too.

Nothing great out there in free agency is expected to get loose for Licht to sign at defensive end, unless some team cuts a veteran for salary cap purposes (Michael Bennett?). At cornerback, Joe has no faith the current defensive staff can develop a rookie, and there’s always huge demand in free agency for good corners.

It seems Brent Sobleski of Bleacher Report is of the same mind. And he believes he has the perfect defensive end for Licht to grab that won’t force Team Glazer to sell any Manchester United stock. That would be Shaq Lawson of the Bills.

Top pass-rushers don’t become available too often, so the Buccaneers can invest in a former first-round pick with plenty of potential.

Shaq Lawson never built a comfort level as a rookie after requiring offseason shoulder surgery. In his second season and first under head coach Sean McDermott, the defensive end started strongly, only to fade during the second half of the season.

The Bills aren’t sure what to expect of Lawson, and the current regime has no investment in him as a player. Last year, this regime traded 2016 second-round pick Reggie Ragland to the Kansas City Chiefs for a fourth-round selection. A third-round pick is commensurate for Lawson.

Thus, the Bills can gain an asset by trading the 23-year-old defender, while the Buccaneers can add a former top talent while still looking to add more pass-rush talent through this year’s draft class.

This is as good of an idea as Joe has heard in a long time. Maybe the Bucs’ brand new defensive line coach can find some magic in Lawson?

The former Clemson standout may have had a rotten year last season by many standards, but he still had twice as many sacks as Robert Ayers.

(Joe was going to write how Lawson had four times as many sacks as Will Gholston but even with Joe’s limited range in math, Joe understands that multiplying anything by zero is still zero.)

103 Responses to “Ideal Trade?”

  1. Ed Says:

    Would be a good move, however this G.M. will find away to screw it up. Instead of blaming a position coach for the 5-11 season look in the mirror and ask yourself what did i give coach H, to work with. What a joke looking at a 4-12 season next season.

  2. Dusthty Rhothdes Says:

    No faith in any licht move, so why would this offseason be different, bucs desperatey needed, edge rush,rb and total defense help he gets 3 WRs via FA/draft makes no sense only positive he couldnt sign nick foles

  3. TDTB Says:

    Agreed that trade or FA is the right answer for DE. Not enough talent in draft this year. Think we can do better than Lawson though.

  4. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Joe….you keep saying our DB coaches can’t develop young players…..so, I suspect you use VH3 as the example….but that may not be on the coaches, that may be VH3 & scheme. I think they have done a good job with Ryan Smith as he continues to improve…also as a UDFA Elliott is improving….and Evans is starting to develop at Safety…..all of the other players are Vets….
    You could be right about this and you could be wrong also.

  5. tmaxcon Says:

    considering bucs can not compete in free agency trading is their only option to get anything more than scraps and injury prone gambles.

  6. Defense Rules Says:

    @Sobleski … “after requiring offseason shoulder surgery”. Aah yes, the magic words to make our GM’s ears perk up. Sic ’em Jason. He can be had cheap too I’m betting.

  7. Easy Says:

    If he comes at no more than a 4th round pick I’d take it. He’s not very good though

  8. Waterboy Says:

    Another example of an all world Clemson DE that can’t make it in the pros. I’d actually rather approach NY to see what they would take for Olivier Vernon or Pierre Paul. NY is in cap trouble and they are both underperforming their current contract.

  9. AlteredEgo Says:

    Licht…..anyone catch #47’s interview after the signing of Garapalo…and his vision going forward……depressing for Bucs fans as were are stuck in a whirlpool of mediocrity

  10. AlteredEgo Says:

    Tampa is the Vet FA’s what the Pacific Gyre is to plastic….

  11. tmaxcon Says:

    AlteredEgo

    mediocrity… Really… how about pure F***ing GARBAGE… Mediocre is the failed dungy era with the pathetic 2 palyoff wins…. spending the last decade in the nfc south basement is pure garbage… you need to recalculate your standards sir

  12. DBS Says:

    Fade and surgery. Sounds perfect and normal for the Bucs.

  13. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    How about a 6rd draft pick for – Titans linebacker Kevin Dodd.
    Another bad judgement call by evaluators – switching this kid to linebacker.
    He’ more suited for the traditional 4-3 defensive end roll.

    Potential Acquisitions via Trade (For Lower Round Compensation)
    • Kevin Dodd DE (25) 6-5, 277 – Tennessee
    • Ufomba Kamalu DE (25) 6-6, 300 – Houston
    • Shilique Calhoun DE (25) 6-4, 251 – Oakland
    • Jihad Ward DT (23) 6-5, 295 – Oakland
    • Carl Davis DT (25) 6-5, 321 – Baltimore

  14. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    He’s more suited for the traditional 4-3 defensive end roll

  15. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    High Price Tag Acquisitions via Trade

    Restricted Free Agents – (2nd – 3rd Round Compensation)
    • David Irving DT (24) 6-7,290 – Dallas
    • Dion Jordan DE (27) 6-6, 275 – Seattle

  16. Pickgrin Says:

    Oh sure – that’s what we should do – be like the Bears and give away a high draft pick in hopes of resurrecting yet another failed Clemson DE’s career. With our luck he would probably die as well. (yea – I know – that was a bit insensitive – RIP Gaines)

    How about we just use that pick on a fresh DE out of this year’s draft instead..

  17. Ndog Says:

    So let me get this straight the guy that lost his only pass rushers in Spence and J Smith is being fired, but the guy that has a top 11 pick in the draft (VH3), a 2nd round pick (J Evans) in the draft and a former pro bowler (TJ Ward) gets a free pass. Yeah this makes totally sense for this team. My goodness this decision making is mind boggling.

  18. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Knee and shoulder injuries dating back to college. I would get a top notch
    “OUTSIDE” medical opinion on this one. Clemson doesn’t deserve a bad rap
    for defensive players. Who would’t take jadavian Clowney?

  19. MadMax Says:

    ^whoa there….Clowney was a Gamecock….

  20. I Bleed Pewter and Red Says:

    “Joe has no faith the current defensive staff can develop a rookie”

    But Joe, How can you be all in on giving away a draft pick for a second year player who never developed on a defensive staff that is known for developing pass rushers?

    We should draft defensive ends and tackles and not try to further develop other teams castoffs.

  21. Maze Says:

    Somebody should tell Joe there’s lots of cornerbacks available in free agency

  22. Tbeartbb Says:

    Another shoulder problem ???

  23. Off the Cuff Says:

    Stay away from linemen with shoulder problems. Total waste of money and draft pick compensation.

    Mediocre doesn’t motivate!
    Overpaying for subpar talent won’t inspire anyone else on the offense or defense

  24. Dre Says:

    Soooo are we that desperate to the point where we are just giving away first rounders for players that haven’t done anything in the league yet i.e. Shaq Lawson, at best this guy is an average player in the league! It would’ve sound better if you chose “chandler jones” from cardinals or at least a pro bowl vet. I’ll take my chances with chubbs and a fourth rounder for Bennett at the moment

  25. Jane Says:

    We’ll be bettter tomoooooooorrrow! Come back haterrra tommooooorow…

  26. Jarod lauderdale Says:

    To tampabaybucsfan , at exactly what point in the season did Ryan Smith improve ? You did not watch the same games as me last year I take it ! Let me guess , your the kind of guy that puts skid marks in his underwear & just because you washed them they improved but if you look closely you’ll see the stain is burned into them & it’s still there buddy ! Ryan Smith is a skid mark in your underwear

  27. JimmyJack Says:

    If they are going to trade I’d rather it be for somebody that’s proven. Plus I doubt this front office puts their jobs on the line banking on a possible bust player.

    Rather see us trade for known production. Might not find any teams willing to trade away Valuable DEs so may have to trade for and aging guy like Beenet or JPP. Not a long term solution but at least comes cheap and allows us to develope.

  28. John Says:

    So trade for a guy who’s current team doesn’t believe in him? Who has had surgery and 2 way below average years only because he has a couple more sacks than a team who had the least sacks in the NFL last year? Pass

  29. SOEbuc Says:

    What’s that? Offseason shoulder surgery you say?

  30. ManzielMadness Says:

    Trading for a DE might be our best option. There’s not a lot of great DE’s out there in the draft or FA. Still stunned we didn’t offer anything for Marcell Dareus and the Jags got him for a lowly 6th…

  31. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Carlos Dunlap would be 1st on my list

  32. AlteredEgo Says:

    I hope everyone realizes next off season this time of year we will be feeling pretty much like this……

  33. Owlykat Says:

    We can do much better in the draft for a DE; especially if we go to the three four Defense. There are a number of 250 pound DEs that can be converted to outside linebackers and get to QBs. Look at Denver Broncos Defense when they won their last SB with a sub par aging QB but an attacking three four Defense.

  34. youpeoplearesodumb Says:

    Every time I read these comments I am shocked that NFL owners are not pouring over this site to find their next GM. We are loaded with untapped football genius on JoeBucsFan.com

  35. LakeLand Says:

    DB coach Jon Hoke has never develop any young CBs. And he was DB coach on Lovie Smith, Marc Trestman garbage Bears team. He was DB coach on Dom Capers garbage Texans team. And now he’s DB coach on this garbage Bucs team.

  36. JimmyJack Says:

    @Owl….I like the idea of switching to 3-4 since we have no passrushing Ends. Lot of folks been saying that for a few years now.

    At least this offseason we won’t have to argue about it long. Whoever they hire for Dline coach should basically tell us what kind of line they will use.

  37. Tony from Los Angeles Says:

    You know, I understand this article and where it’s coming from completely…

    But there are two glaring points to make:

    1. Good teams don’t have to trade to find DE’s and CB’s. They simply have a lot of them. Look at the top sack teams from last season:

    Pittsburgh
    Jacksonville
    Carolina
    Tennessee

    Yes, they had high end guys with high sack totals – but they were DEEP. They had multiple guys in the rotation putting up numbers better than any single Buc D-lineman, That says two thing:

    The Bucs system isn’t working
    They need MULTIPLE players. They need depth.They need an influx of guys at the position. Not just one.

    2. Good teams find ways to acquire assets without giving up assets. The Bucs are not good enough and certainly not deep enough to trade assets away to plug in holes. That’s robbing Peter to pay Paul and in the end, both end up living under a bridge.

    The Bucs need to go all in on signing mid-tier free agents, accumulating draft picks by trading down, and bringing in a minimum of 8 new faces along the offensive and defensive lines. They need to bring in numbers to COMPETE, bolster the depth, and improve the starting line-up.

    Fix the trenches, fix the Bucs!!

  38. unbelievable Says:

    I’d happily trade a 3rd or 4th for that guy.

    No brainer.

  39. Gambelero Says:

    The idea has merit, not sure of the player, though. A team like Buffalo or Jacksonville will give away the fort if (italicized) the guy they desperately covet is there at 7. If we can’t get Chubb, Nelson or Fitzpatrick, a short trade down to Washington, Arizona or Miami makes sense. Those teams will way over pay if they think their future (post grooming ala Garapolo) qb is there. Only Jacksonville and Buffalo, though, will throw their first born male child into the mix.

    To structure a deal with either team, Licht would be looking at future (19 and 20) picks. But with both our coach and GM sitting on toasty, one-year, prove it hot seats, will Licht and Koetter take a deal where we take say Jacksonville’s next two ones for a 7-29 swap this year? Wouldn’t it be more palatable (on both sides) to ask for a player or two instead?

    This year we’re looking at a very unique opportunity to get really great value in a trade-down. Robinson scored huge two years ago and Lynch totally fleeced the Bears last year. It’s possible (likely is more probable), that one qb needy team will see its (note the singular this time) highest (italicized) rated (italicized) qb on the board, the guy they would take if they had the number one overall pick (whole clause italicized). Each team, in its own mind, isn’t trading an 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 21+22 or 29 for a 7. It’s trading for a 1, trading for the very best player in the draft. And when there are that many teams behind us who are looking for the guy for now or the future, what they would give up could get pretty interesting.

  40. Tom Says:

    No Brain. DO NOT TRADE AWAY OUR DRAFT PICKS.

  41. Reach87 Says:

    Bob, Clowney went to USC(university of South Carolina), not Clemson.

  42. Tom Says:

    3-4 sounding better all the time.

  43. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    If I remember correctly, wasn’t one of the reasons we let Michael Bennett go was that he had a shoulder injury too. We might know knees but maybe we don’t know shoulder injuries.

  44. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    Give up one of our two 6th round picks for this guy.

  45. USFBUC Says:

    We could also trade DJax to them for Lawson. They need a WR opposite of Benjamin.

  46. cmurda Says:

    Gotta give it up to Sobleski. Whenever proposing a potential trade, you have to show a reason the opposing team would be willing and he did that. My problem is I can’t help but get the picture of D Bowers out of my head. Shaq has 6 sacks in 2 years. It’s far from certain that he will cast out the demons of recent Clemson DE’s that we have drafted and missed on. I also am weary of a guy coming off injury.

  47. ManzielMadness Says:

    A 3-4 sounds good but we still lack some of the personnel. We’d need a true NT (Sorry Swaggy) and a couple more JACK LB’ers. Right now Noah Spence might be the only one to (successfully) fill that role and Beckwith should be able to fill the MIKE role pretty well. We’d also have to convince Gerald to switch to a 5 – tech (or ship him out). Plus we’d need speed on the back end. If you cant successfully blitz in a 3-4 you’re gonna get roasted all day.

  48. ManzielMadness Says:

    However there’s more options in the draft for a 3-4 end like Landry, Hubbard, Davenport.

  49. Blake_Bucsfan Says:

    I’d rather trade for Robert Quinn, or Justin Houston.

  50. AlteredEgo Says:

    Manzeil ” Noah Spence might be the only one to (successfully) fill that role and Beckwith should be ”
    interesting thought on Spence….wonder if playing LB would be easier on his shoulder vs DE…..

  51. LakeLand Says:

    The Atlanta Falcons has been getting production from their Clemson D-Linemen

    Vic Beasley
    Grady Jarrett

  52. LakeLand Says:

    ManzielMadness

    Stevie T is the ideal 3-4 NT

    Chris Baker is the ideal 3-4 DE

  53. ManzielMadness Says:

    @AE

    I believe he’d hold up better at that weight, my biggest question is if he’d be able to hold up in coverage.

    @Lakeland

    I agree Baker has the size just not a fan of his attitude (among others). And forgot about Stevie T, would be good depth just need to see him play more. Would like to get a guy like D. Poe in FA if we switched over.

  54. Bob in Valrico Says:

    my bad on Clowny.

  55. JimmyJack Says:

    I thought I remember hearing that Baker played NT. Could be wrong.

    The biggest reason I prefer 3-4 with this team is because our LBs are always prepared on game days and they seem to have more accountability. With Kwon and LVD there is good leadership and I think they would get the most out of a Noah Spence and anybody else we add to that group.

    If they are going to stay 4-3 they need to get serious and add some real leadership to that line……Lawson won’t cut it. If Chubb is that guy trade up for him.

  56. Sweeptheleg Says:

    I’d be surprised if any top free agents would want to come to this pathetic dumpster fire of a team that’s a year away from from a complete overhaul in coaching.

    Unless of course they way overpay for them.

  57. Sweeptheleg Says:

    And people please shut up about going to a 3-4 defense.

    It’s not a majic wand. And who in their right minds believe this pathetic coaching staff would even know how to implement it.

    It ain’t happening so shut up about it.

    People think this team is a 3-4 defense away from being good?

    Paaaaallleeeessseeee

  58. Rrsrq Says:

    Pray Chubb slips to 7, only hope. Pray M. Bennett gets cut and he wants rot sign with the Bucs. Then pray J. Licht trades back in the first round and pick up Vita Vea (yes Imwouod give up next years first round pick to solidify this defensive line. But in essence, this would be like when the let Raheem, go they spent money on the team, so let Jay Hayes go and invest in the defensive line

  59. JimmyJack Says:

    I don’t know what’s up with you fans sometimes. Not sure if it’s a Tampa thing or what but you guys have severe kneejerk reactions.

    Once upon a time we had a measly 9-7 record and I swear to everything holy their were fans on here predicting Super Bowls…..Even spotted a few of you calling for as many as three Super Bowls.

    I thought you were crazy then and I think you’re crazy now calling us a dumpster fire. I’m not singling you out Sweeptheleg, you are not the first one.

    Yeah I told you guys to calm down with the Super Bowl talk and it fell on deaf ears. I’ll tell you to calm down now and I’m sure it’ll fall on deaf ears again.

    Sure there are things to be upset with about this team but we do have a few things going for us in case you didn’t know. Do the Bucs got a lot of fixin to do? Damn straight they do but believe it or not it’s obtainable…..Worst Case, and honestly likely, scenario is we have another losing season. Then they bring in somebody that hopefully knows how to build and coach a team.

    I’m not a big predicter guy but maybe you guys can learn from the SB predictions that gauging a team in offseason can be quite foolish. I’m a prove it guy……I’m willing to let this play out and we’ll see how they look next year. Yeah if they suck I’ll be enraged but no reason to stay enraged for an entire year over this team.

  60. LakeLand Says:

    The Bucs may have to overpay for Alex Okafor and Dontari Poe.

  61. godzilla13 Says:

    I agree with JimmjJack. Just a year ago the Bucs were 9-7 and their defense produced 38 sacks, 9th in the league. Football Outsiders ranked the Bucs DOVA for defensive QB pressures 2nd in the league. Yes, second in the league. FO also ranked the 6th against the pass that year. All this team needs is to ew-sign Grimes and trade or sign a top teir CB. Then add a DE and a DT in FA or the draft. Go after Tavin Bryan Florida by moving back into the first round. Sign DE Chris Smith Bengals to a contract and your defense is on track.

  62. Roadwarrior Says:

    Bum shoulder, faded in second half, looking for magic.
    Hell yeah! He will be perfect.

  63. LakeLand Says:

    The Bucs and their fans need to face reality. The 2018 free agency is weak with edge rushers. The 2018 NFL draft is even weaker with edge rushers. 2018 don’t look bright for this team, unless the edge rushers they have step their game up.

  64. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Yet another bad suggestion from poor Joe. lol

    We are really grasping at straws here. Shaq Lawson will probably be released in the first round of cuts in Training camp, if he makes it that far. What is the point in giving up a pick for a player that really has proven nothing except that he gets injured a lot?

    Makes no sense to me.

    I understand you have to write about something, Joe…I do…and there is little out there that is actually worth writing about this time of the year. I get it. But it must be hard even making these suggestions…deep down inside, I mean.

    I would get behind one trade that I’ve seen discussed…Bennett. But for no more than a 4th rounder. If he can’t be had for that, never mind.

    I would rather draft. Then sign undrafted DEs out the nose until we find gold.

  65. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    godzilla13 Says
    “All this team needs is to re-sign Grimes and trade or sign a top tier CB.”

    And draft a potential replacement for Grimes, because he won’t last more than one more year.

  66. Sweeptheleg Says:

    @jimmyjack

    You can be sure I’ve had this opinion even with the 9-7 record a year ago.

    We have nothing going for this team.

    We have the 4th best QB and the 4th best team period. And next season will be more of the same. 6-10 at best.

    Until the QB’s in this division retire we will be bottom feeders.

    They keep getting better as well.

  67. JR Allen Says:

    a lot of wishful thinking. But when was the last time the bucs actually traded for a Player. I’ll wait for an answer.

    not going to happen. lets stack up some picks and get good FA. Because trading for a player isn’t happening

  68. Ndog Says:

    Sweeptheleg don’t get sucked into the ridiculous crap Joe spews about having the 4th best QB in the division. Look at the facts and you will see at worst we have the 3rd best quarterback in the division. Of course that is unless you want yput QB running lead draws 15 times a game. Then let’s look at Matt Ryan who has the 2nd best WR in the NFL and not one but 2 great runningbacks along with one of the best centers in the game. Just imagine if Jameis had THAT running game! But Joes right it’s all Jameis that we can’t run the ball and every team knows what’s coming pretty much every play due to our predictable play calling. But yep we have the 4th best QB SMH!

  69. aussieBucfan Says:

    Rams can save around 11 million if they cut/trade Robert Quinn with player’s like Donald, Joyner and Johnson out of contract could make sense to offer a mid round pick let the free up some cap space and absorb the 12m for a 1 year prove it deal (2 years left on his contract).

    He has had a run with injuries but did play 15 games this past seasonand let’s face it where else are you going to find a 27yo, 6’4 260lbs DE with 62.5 career sacks on 12m a year?

  70. JimmyJack Says:

    Sweeptheleg……I’m with Ndog here. Cam Newton ain’t better then Winston. We can all have our own opinions on that and it’s fair. On paper I’ll give it to Ryan over Winston because he’s had numerous winning seasons but personally I like Winston better.

    And I know we laid an egg for much of this season but when this team plays solid football they nicely with the Saints and Falcons. I won’t really believe any fans that tells me we can’t beat those teams. We don’t match up well, especially our offense, against the Panthers. Dirk needs to fix his gameplan on this matchup…….Our QB should be getting hit and pressured in the double digits and sacked 7 times in these games. It’s unacceptable.

    And to say we got nothing going for the team I kinda thought we had a good QB good pass weapons a few good pieces on our Oline and a good LB core. I just don’t know how that is nothing.

    This team is lacking in the attitude dept and in confidence IMO. After that 9-7 season I was closer to your opinion then the Super Bowl camp because of this…….I didn’t like how 5his team got pushed around when they had a legit playoff chance vs the Cowboys. Then next week against the Saints they looked like a defeated team with no intensity. Not sure what the answer is but if they can fix their gameday approach we could be a threat.

  71. JimmyJack Says:

    And I direct my attitude comment at Godzilla too……I don’t care who they get in here and how they get ranked and how many top tier talents we acquire.

    All that goes down the sh!tter real quick when guys are playing at half speed.

    It’s on the players, they need to demand more of themselves. They got T.J. Ward last year and he was a good player coming in. Then he gets on the field and plays slow and is caught missing his assignments.

    The coaches are only gonna see so much. Our players not only need to take accountability for themselves but the guy next to them……..Ward was a product of his environment in Denver. Every man on that defense played fast because I guarantee you they do things differently in Denver to prepare. Our team allows players to come in and coast and it shows up on gameday.

    It’s either that or Denver magical water that we don’t posess.

  72. Arealbucsfan Says:

    Trade for Dunlap or Quinn and sign Bennett

  73. LakeLand Says:

    New players, new coaches same old results.

    Losing

  74. SteveK Says:

    Right now the Buccaneers have the 4th best QB in the division

    Drew Brees, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Jameis Winston. In that order.

    No excuses!

    The other three QBs in the NFC South have: League MVP Award+ Super Bowl Appearance

    Jameis has a NCAA title, but that means nothing in the NFL.

  75. Jeagan1999 Says:

    I don’t think so.

  76. Ndog Says:

    SteveK,
    Steve Young is in the HOF but would you take him over Jamies right now? The question is not who has the better career but who is the better right now? If you look at the stats and just watch them play I would take Jamies anyday over Cam. He is more accurate, keeps his eyes downfield longer, is a better leader and has a better chance of playing longer as he is not running 30 % of the plays up the gut vs 300 + pound lineman trying to kill him. I would also take Jameis over Matt Ryan but that is a lot closer as Ryan does have a lot of the traits that make a QB great but he plays in a complete offense and has a decent defense to work with. If you gave Jameis those same tools I believe he would be putting up crazy numbers and winning a ton of games. But time will tell but again if I was a betting man I would bet on Jameis over either one of those two. Now Drew Brees he is the man and I would barely take anyone over him and yes that includes Brady.

  77. SteveK Says:

    Ndog

    Good points. Jameis could use some help.

    Can the same argument be made for Koetter?

    I don’t see Licht filling out the roster.

    RB/Edge rush are inexcusably terrible.

    I would make the same argument that you make for Jameis, for Koetter. It’s on Licht to fill this holes.

    Can’t win on Sundays with no runnning game and zero edge rush. Pathetic roster construction. I firmly believe a panel of JBF.com fans COULD NOT DO ANY WORSE.

  78. Ndog Says:

    Just so we are crystal clear about this, Jameis had a higher comp % 63 to 59 than Cam, more yards than Cam 3,504 to 3,302, the same amount of balls completed over 40 yards 5 apiece, had a higher QB Rating 92.9 vs 80.7 all while throwing less passes this year 442 to 492. So this is not just an opinion of mine these are facts that Jameis is a better QB than Cam period. Also throw in the fact that Cam had a tremendous running game (to be fair in large part due to him) and a great defense he was in many more quality throwing positions than Jameis ever was. But again Joe keeps spewing this nonsense, so eventually the ones that cant think for themselves on this site will buy what he is selling.

  79. Ndog Says:

    Im with you SteveK on the roster BUT Koetter lost me when he kept running Doug Martin out there week after week when he was playing like trash and Barber could not have done any worse. In addition to that make a freaking decision to stick with one guard as I truly believe that hurt our running game as well. The roster has a ton of holes but Koetter did not do himself any favors with those decisions and his playcalling turned very predictable this year. Would it have killed him to run a WR screen to D Jax instead of Hump, or running a middle TE screen to OJ, or run a freaking flee flicker, a double reverse, a double pass, a fake punt, anything to help the guys on his roster out. But no when you are limited lets just announce to the world what is coming cause that is the best way to succeed.

  80. Sweeptheleg Says:

    @everyone

    I don’t even really care if Winston is better than cam or Ryan or whoever. The difference is the other teams are playoff teams and the Bucs aren’t.

    Whether it’s coaching or talent or whatever. One thing that is consistent with the Bucs is it’s “always something”

    I’ve been watching since 1987 and other than about 5 good years all I ever hear is excuses.

    Blame it on whatever you want I don’t care. But the other teams are better and making the playoffs while Bucs fans just sit around making excuses.

  81. LakeLand Says:

    The Bucs are the WORST team in the NFC South…hands down…no debate.

    Bottom Line

  82. Ndog Says:

    So Sweeptheleg I guess we should all just give up football right? What else do you want us to do? We cant help that they keep hiring people who suck at their job. And by the way they are not excuses, as those are people saying it is not someone fault, when in reality we are just giving our opinion as to why we suck, those are not excuses they are problems we feel are causing out team to suck. But we all thank you captain obvious that letting us know our team sucks, cause you know we had no idea.

  83. Ndog Says:

    Thanks Lakeland wow none of us had any idea that was the case. I mean didnt they go to the playoffs last year?

  84. LakeLand Says:

    When it comes to sports….only wins matters….maybe in tennis or golf…individual stats are important, because they are individual sports….but not in football. Football is a team sport…and the team with the best 53 players usually wins.

  85. LakeLand Says:

    ndog

    Until the Bucs get the right people to come in and run this pathetic organization. The Bucs will forever be losers. And Jameis Winston, Kwon Alexander, Mike Evans etc, should see what this organization has done to GMC and LVD. If they are smart, they would not stay with this 2nd rate team. They should catch the first thing smoking out of Tampa. This franchise destroys players and coaches careers.

  86. Sweeptheleg Says:

    @ndog

    Well reading some of these comments some of you actually believe this team is good and oh so close to playoffs and Super Bowls. Some of you believe we’re one or two players away and it’s such an easy fix so it’s not so obvious to some of you that this team and organization sucks complete as ssssss.

  87. LakeLand Says:

    Every NFL teams needs 53 good players for their defense,offense and special teams. They need another 20-25 good football coaches to develop and coach the players. They need another 20-25 good football people in their scouting department. It take more than a few players to change the makeup of a team.

  88. JimmyJack Says:

    I agree with Lakeland on this. It does start with a quality Front Office. That’s where everything starts and without proper planning the pieces will never come together.

    That being said I’m not going to write off the current staff we have right now. Admittedly I was calling for Dirks head before the season ended. But somebody at One Buc thinks I’m wrong and it wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong. I refuse to just give up on a season cause I don’t like the coach. It’s my team I’ll support them.

    IMO Licht has done a decent job of planning.I think last year was an abomination in the offseason and if our coach wasn’t an offensive mind it would of should of went differently. My main gripe with how this team has been built is lack of bringing in players capable of leading on defense. I think that’s why Ayers was targeted and that’s been a failure. I also think this coaching staff could try and get Kwon to take a bigger role and demand more.

  89. JimmyJack Says:

    I think we have been suffering on our Oline from lack of leadership as well since Mankins has left. Maybe they brought in Sweezy to replace that but we all know how that has worked out.

    When you really look at things getting guys that can provide leadership on an NFL team are very rare.

    This is why the first two guys I’d like to see drafted here are Chubb and Nelson. Both of who are claimed to be leaders……Say whatever you want about how valuable a guard is but if your not putting value on leadership your not looking at it properly……..It’s up to the Bucs to try and find those leadership qualities and I hope the only way they pass on them two is if they don’t see it.

  90. SB Says:

    Laughing at 80% of the commentors is one of the Main things that has kept me a daily reader for the last 6 yrs. Joe, you are part of the reason too. Actually you attract the commentors so …………..Jeesh you get too much credit. 🙂

  91. LakeLand Says:

    SB

    I have been laughing at the Bucs for 42 years. It’s getting old, I’m tired of laughing at them. I actually feel sorry for them now.

  92. DB55 Says:

    But we already have a DE with a broken shoulder ?????!?!!!!?!!???

  93. SB Says:

    Well LakeLand……..I have been supporting them for 42 years. I guess there is a difference between us.

  94. Ndog Says:

    Listen guys we all HATE to lose but if your a fan then somewhere inside you there is at least a little belief or you wouldn’t care. Now if you are willing to admit it or not that’s a different discussion.

  95. Duke Says:

    Owlykat,

    Instead of a 3-4, which very few teams truly run as a base scheme, perhaps it’s time for the Bucs to jump ahead of the learning curve and actually be innovative.
    The problem with the current state of college football is not going backwards and it is plain to see the difference in the type of players entering the draft vs the needs of NFL teams. Defensive ends in particular is a position that the demands outweigh the supply . So either teams continue to overpay for the position or they change the dynamic.

    It’s possible for that to happen by limiting the defensive lineman, as is accepted, to 2 and fill the addition spots, 1 or 2, with LB’s. If the team did this it would open up a new and far more dynamic range of players available for the team to draft.
    It would also produce a new defense that would give the team an advantage over the competition .

  96. Gambelero Says:

    So for the people who said many of us were idiots for expecting playoffs after going 9-7, I’m on record predicting 12-4, but getting upset divisional round. I wish I saved my posts so I could prove it. Pretty sure it was when Joe posted his $20 to win $12 over 8-wins bet.

  97. Buck Rodgers Says:

    For some reason Clemson D ends usually suck!

  98. 813bucboi Says:

    We already have a DE with a bum shoulder…. We don’t need another one…. That’s will be another excuse waiting to happen…..

  99. Kstoges Says:

    Idk how people don’t like our general manager guys look at the big picture and look how much more talent this team has since he’s been here this team has so much more potantial then past teams this team has potential to be good and stay good for a lil while and I know Jason Licht isn’t perfect but he’s made a lot of good moves man Idk that’s just my opinion then i guess

  100. Capt.Tim Says:

    Noah spence isnt a DE.
    Hes 6’2”, 245#
    And he played LB and DE in college.
    Ive been saying for a year- Noah is a Rush LBer.
    Hes too small to play DE, if they keep playing him there, they will ruin his career.

    Shaq Lawson would be the Best DE on this team by far.
    Trade a 3rd for him . Draft Arden Key.
    Draft A Rb in 2nd.
    Trade lavonte David for a CB. Adarious can and should be starting. He can swap out for Noah on passing downs.
    Spence rushing the QB would help this incompetent staff generate a pass rush.
    O line in 4th, Safety in 5th, DE project in 7th.

    But none of that will happen- because this is the bumbling Bucs.
    Next year, Doug Martin will be their Back,
    Ayers and Gholsten will be their DEs, Once some 6’6, 320# OT hurts Noah again.

    They’ll draft a Lb, A TE, A punter, A WR- raise ticket prices- and spend next January telling us that they are commited to building a Champion
    Even though we went 4-12. And they will fire the special teams coach- to demonstrate their commitment

  101. Sighimabucsfan Says:

    Fact: Not sure why people can’t see this, or why they aren’t talking about this but:…it’s very obvious without an All Pro like Evans-Winston would suck (case in point Manziel), it’s obvious Winston’s yardage numbers are huge because of all his awesome recievers such as Evans as his primary receiver…Winston has more weapons than Cam, and probably more than Bree’s..(Howard, DJax, Evans…more!!!) Winston’s biggest issues?

    Turnovers, turnovers, and staring down recievers (it soo horrible- he stares down his primary 2 receivers on almost every play) He has a strong arm, I will give you that, that allows him to complete plays even though he stares the recievers down- but he still holds the ball way too long. No Oline can hold back a pass rush that long- and yet, he lacks accuracy for long balls to hit DJAx! He must get a quicker release, as his wind up for his throws takes way too long.

    The Bucs need defensive line pass rushers like suggested earlier in the comments- kind of like NY Giants during their Superbowls against NE, and the Eagles this year- depth, interchangeable, fresh Dlineman at point of attack. Every pass defense- in the secondary-looks bad ass with a bad ass defensive line. My hope is that the Bucs get one O lineman, way more defensive tackles and edge rushers…and they figure out what the hell to do with the Winston’s turnovers, and perhaps coaching him up if at all possible or moving on.Gluck suffering Bucsfans…sigh…

  102. Mord Says:

    Between him and Spence we’d finally have two working shoulders at the DE position.

  103. Legarettes Blunt Says:

    Me personally I would like to try trading a 3rd for Carlos Dunlap. The bengals are a mess and I believe they may be willing to deal him. Would pair perfectly next to McCoy.

 

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