The Quest For Nasty
March 18th, 2018
Ryan Jensen
Donovan Smith and Ali Marpet were stunningly smart and successful second-round draft picks by Jason Licht.
But there’s a missing element there.
It’s what Mike Smith felt he had in Robert Ayers when the defensive end arrived in 2016. Smith was trying to be nice that summer talking about Ayers. He didn’t want to call Ayers a badass but sort of couldn’t help it, “I don’t want to say it’s a nasty tone,” Smith said of the Ayers’ influence.
It was what the Bucs needed, an element Gerald McCoy, Clinton McDonald and Will Gholston didn’t provide.
The Bucs sought that same edge for the offensive line when Logan Mankins retired after the 2015 season. Why Marpet and Smith aren’t wired that way is unclear.
Regardless, in came free agent J.R. Sweezy for huge dollars, and Smith and nearly everyone associated with the Bucs spoke openly about how Sweezy’s brand of nasty was going to be key to the 2017 season, when Sweezy was finally healthy.
But it didn’t materialize.
Now the Bucs have dropped eight figures per year on new center Ryan Jensen, who’s know best for being a nasty and almost dirty presence in Baltimore. And he’s proud of it.
Clearly, Bucs officials believed it was important for their O-line to find its dark side. Maybe they’re right? If they are, and Jensen is Jensen, then very good things are on the way.
https://twitter.com/SixZeroStrength/status/923731240263413760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fravenswire.usatoday.com%2F2017%2F10%2F27%2Ftwitter-freaks-out-about-ryan-jensen-protecting-joe-flacco%2F
March 18th, 2018 at 3:43 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo has been waiting for Pablo’s Bucs to open up a can of whoopa$$ on someone, anyone. Maybe Ryan Henson can do it. Hoe Hawley tried but just couldn’t do it.Thank you Hason for finally bringing in an enforcer”
March 18th, 2018 at 3:45 pm
Love that intensity in an O-Lineman. I know RB and DE are huge needs in the draft, but I wouldn’t be too butt hurt if we were able to draft Nelson at 7. Our O-Line could be dominant with that pick.
March 18th, 2018 at 3:46 pm
About time!! I thought I was going to read another negative Gloom and Doom post.
March 18th, 2018 at 3:47 pm
Like Jensen but I’m not down for 15-yard PF penalties
March 18th, 2018 at 3:54 pm
I’ll believe it when I see it.
March 18th, 2018 at 3:59 pm
Ummmm 15 yards??? LMAO…. I will give the other team the game if they took out my QB and my guys wrnt ape spit.
Heck, you take out my QB on a play like that I would have my guys walk off the field AFTER BEATING YOUR FACE IN.
15 yards… Please…
March 18th, 2018 at 4:01 pm
Would like to see Suh brought in, hope there isn’t any bad blood between him and Jensen
Also curious as to who gets to keep the 93 on their jersey
March 18th, 2018 at 4:02 pm
The only penalty called on that play was on Miami.
March 18th, 2018 at 4:03 pm
Question?
If Mr. Chubb is such a bad asp, could really revitalize the Bucs defence, would it not be worthwhile for the Bucs give up 1,2,3, maybe for draft picks in this year’s draft to get him?I
March 18th, 2018 at 4:09 pm
Sue is a POS. He got a PI later in this same game for poking one of Baltimore’s Olineman in the eye because they were getting there butt beat. There is a reason Miami is ridding that guy from their lockeroom.
March 18th, 2018 at 4:12 pm
Stanglassman,
I agree Suh is a waste of a roster spot. He’s just a dirty bum, that bring nothing to the table, that will improve a football team.
March 18th, 2018 at 4:18 pm
@Bnomo
Because the Bucs are not 1 player away from success. And for as good of a prospect as Chubb is, he is only the best Pass rusher in a weak class, and there’s no guarantees that any player is going to live up to their potential.
Simply put it’s far too risky.
March 18th, 2018 at 4:23 pm
Bnomo
Who said chubb was that guy? Any gm who gives up that much better be taking a franchise qb, not a DE. No way licht should trade up for anyone imo. Thats why he is in this mess to begin with. He is short 5 players from previous trading. Besides teams are already trading up to get a qb. So more will definitely come. Chubb might be there. If not, move on with the draft.
March 18th, 2018 at 4:24 pm
Yeah maybe if we get an Olineman fighting for his QB like that we won’t be watching Winston boil over like he has a few times…….This team gets physically manhadled quite often and it shouldn’t be on the QB to fight that war.
March 18th, 2018 at 4:36 pm
But I am skeptical that Jensen will bring that fire. It’s not just him in Baltimore that is a very physical team in both trenches…..The same goes for Sweezy. He came from a team that played a much different brand of football then Tampa.
And yes it’s on the players like Sweezy and Jensen to preach that message. But the tone and expectations likely starts from coaching.
This team just plays soft. You can never contend in this league like that. I’m so sick and tired of waiting for it to change…..Winston got me excited and when I saw Kwon raise up and splash onto the scene I really thought they would take control of this team and get us playing at a high level with physical football we haven’t seen in over a decade.
I’m sorry but these guys have been very very poor leaders for this team. The only solace is that the year have been young and maybe were taking a back seat to the veterans……But they are veterans now. This is their team and if the Bucs come out playing more heartless football they are just garbage leaders.
March 18th, 2018 at 4:52 pm
Tom Cable develop J.R.Sweezy in Seattle. The Bucs has George Warhop, as I keep saying, the coaches makes the most difference.
March 18th, 2018 at 4:58 pm
Sweezy was a mauler in Seattle with Tom Cable coaching him. He come to Tampa and melt like GMC ice cream.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:04 pm
Did Pablo sneak back in the US. Kind of good to hear from him again. Spread the toughness.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:05 pm
Its a passing league and the rules (new catch rule this year) favor the offense more and more
The buc sheep here still not tired of losing to journeyman QBs completing 70% against our corners? These scrub QBs are having career games vs our corners by passing short routes in less than 2 seconds and the sheep here think getting another gimp like nowhere spence is going to solve our worst nfl corners
Oakland needs another pass rusher to help out kmack. Denver needs another de to help out vmiller….both defenses sucked last year…kmack and vmiller wasnt that effective against good offenses…
WHY????
BECAUSE the new competent playoff caliber NFL offense can beat that pass rush by the short highly efficient passing game and getting the ball out the QBs hands before the rush even gets vicinity of the QB
ARE NOT STILL TIRED OF OPPOSING SCRUB QBS COMPLETING OVER 70% AND CAREER GAMES VS OUR SOFT COVERAGE…..
WE WONT WIN UNTIL OUR PUTRID PASS COVERAGE IS SOLVED…
EVEN IF WE HAVE VON MILLER OR KMACK ON OUR TEAM
March 18th, 2018 at 5:07 pm
LakeLand Says:
March 18th, 2018 at 4:58 pm
Sweezy was a mauler in Seattle with Tom Cable coaching him. He come to Tampa and melt like GMC ice cream.
—————————
Coaching can’t help you when you’re playing hurt.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:10 pm
A teammate on Jensen’s physicality: https://www.pressboxonline.com/2017/10/30/ravens-defensive-lineman-carl-davis-on-center-ryan-jensen-he-gets-after-people
March 18th, 2018 at 5:15 pm
I love that!! Maybe if he could block him he wouldn’t have to “protect his QB” might it have been his guy, but that was my first thought.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:21 pm
Sweezy wasn’t hurt all of last season. And he wasn’t no where near the mauler he was in Seattle.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:29 pm
@ darin
Can you explain to us how licht is short 5 players by trading? You do know a team only get 7 draft picks correct? Some may get supplemental picks but teams receive 7 picks. Licht has had 4 drafts. Two drafts he picked 7 players and the other 2 drafts, he picked 6 players. So how exactly is licht missing 5 players? I have never seen a fan base that loves to complain so much that they will complain with using false claims. Smh
March 18th, 2018 at 5:29 pm
old time buc Says:
March 18th, 2018 at 5:04 pm
Did Pablo sneak back in the US. Kind of good to hear from him again. Spread the toughness.
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo is an American citizen….Pablo did sneak once…but that’s all it took. Pablo has been laying back lately because of embarrassment over Aguayo’s failure. Pablo’s depression is just about over. Pablo has kept this quiet but Pablo was in the Uber with Haboo…..Pablo was the one groping the driver….She couldn’t tell the difference between one elongated arc and the other. FYI…..the NFL doesn’t believe Pablo. Pablo thinks they are racist.”
March 18th, 2018 at 5:30 pm
webster,
The word isn’t complaining, the word is:
Voicing their opinion!
March 18th, 2018 at 5:32 pm
Is Sweezy’s agent Carl Nicks?
March 18th, 2018 at 5:32 pm
I want us to deal our pick for more picks. Ideally a QB wil fall buffalo will be ready to give it’s two picks for ours. Licht has been good with most 1st and 2nd round pick (not a kicker). Give him extra picks and he could bring us another four starters.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:36 pm
Stay strong Webster. I’ve never seen a board where the “fan base” enjoys losing more then this one. It’s hard to see posters negative about 100% of a teams moves yet they call themselves fans.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:39 pm
@ Bnomo,
I’m with you, go get the player you need, however, because you need a RB in this drat I would rather give up next years number one and preferably a 3rd but possibly a 2nd this year. I believe those two positions are worth at least 4 more wins with our offense, hopefully a consistent kicker and if you get the right RB or find in free agency a real kick/punt returner, this team can compete.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:44 pm
LG Quenton Nelson
C Ryan Jensen
RG Frank Ragnow
Oops.. My bad I forgot to add Ali Marpet
March 18th, 2018 at 5:45 pm
BuccaneEric75 Says:
March 18th, 2018 at 5:15 pm
I love that!! Maybe if he could block him he wouldn’t have to “protect his QB” might it have been his guy, but that was my first thought.
——————————————————————————-
Dude. Flacco was scrambling on this play after rolling out to his right, Jensen Blocked his guy (Cameron Wake i think) ok on this play, and was making his way up field to block for his QB. Flacco slid and Kiko Alonso tried to take his head off.
Much love, no hate, but maybe go watch the whole play before making those kind of assumptions.
Jensen is going to be a solid addition, and his contract won’t look nearly as huge as it as once the cap continues go up. The next big name Center to hit the market will probably get around 12-14 million a year. Book it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMNTv3iaWMo
Here’s a decent look at the full play.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:49 pm
Trade McCoy to the Browns: Swap 4th and 7th picks in 1st rd and Bucs get one of Browns three 2nd RD picks.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:50 pm
Bucs ain’t been Hard Hittin or Nasty since Sapp/Brooks/Lynch. Teams feared the Bucs Defense. Not at all confident we can get back there with the likes of Mike Smith. But time will tell. We shall truly see what kind of coach he is this year. Thats the greatest thing about the NFl..No hiding. You can only SPIN..for so long.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:53 pm
Frank Ragnow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFX0Pv1vdc
Note: The Dude that’s tossing the 287lbs DE –10 yards down the field like a sack of potatoes. Is Frank Ragnow.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:56 pm
@ lakeland
Its definetly complaining….about everything.
March 18th, 2018 at 5:59 pm
@Luv
So you want us to bench Ali? What exactly are you suggesting here?
March 18th, 2018 at 6:01 pm
LUVMYBUCS,
It amusing me, with all of this #BuildTheTrenches talk
Last year before the draft I mention it a thousand times and all I was seeing was #WeaponsForWinston#.
LakeLandBuc Says:
April 26th, 2017 at 7:54 pm
I’m against drafting a RB in the 1st round. My guys are LT/RT Ryan Ramczyk, DE Derrick Barnett, DE/DT Taco Charlton, G/T Cam Robinson. I believe in winning in the trenches. And these 4 guys can get it done, we need upgrades on D-Line and O-Line.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:01 pm
For the record Sweezy was placed in IR last year and missed the last two games. We don’t know when that injury happened but his lack of flexibility was evident all season long.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:02 pm
Free burritos if Kurt Warner’s wife will make out with me
March 18th, 2018 at 6:04 pm
Stanglassman,
He wasn’t 100% healthy, but he wasn’t even showing the nastiness on the sidelines. You can still have that nasty attitude while injured. It seems like the Bucs are just a passive team with passive coaches.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:12 pm
@Kobe Faker … “the new competent playoff caliber NFL offense can beat that pass rush by the short highly efficient passing game and getting the ball out the QBs hands before the rush even gets vicinity of the QB.” For the most part I agree with ya Kobe, BUT … in 2017, 12 teams had over 40 sacks (Steelers win the prize with 56 sacks, with Jaguars next at 55). That’s the most since 2013 when Carolina had 60 (followed by Buffalo that year with 57). Five years apart, but those 4 teams had many similarities: tough mothers in the trenches for one. Plus a back-end that could cover (INTs ranged from 23-16 for those 4 teams in those years).
Bottom line IMO Kobe is that talented, motivated defenses git ‘er done. Bucs had a weak DLine AND a weak secondary in 2017, and our 5-11 record reflects that. It takes BOTH an effective DLine AND an effective Secondary to be better-than-average. Bucs’ defense isn’t there yet, but IMO performed much better in 2017 than most fans & media types give them credit for. Yardage given up is important because it typically impacts TOP, but scoring defense is really the bottom line to me. Hopefully we can move up from 24th to the middle of the pack this year. To do that, we’ll need a beastly DT who can collapse the interior, a stud DE who can bring pressure from the edges, another starting outside corner to complement Brent Grimes, plus a new starting SS. Highly doubtful we’ll get all four of those in the draft this year, but you never know.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:16 pm
Defense Rules,
It’ll get better one day
March 18th, 2018 at 6:35 pm
Great so we have a walking talking 15 yard flagrantl foul dirty player…..
March 18th, 2018 at 6:43 pm
Blake_Bucsfan
I suggesting let Frank Ragnow ride the pine in 2018
Let Marpet walk in 2019.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:43 pm
Moderation?
March 18th, 2018 at 6:47 pm
LakeLand
I hear U – I’ve always been a build the trenches guy.
But last year – this kid needed some weapons.
That’s why – I was on the Evan Engram & Chris Godwin train so tough.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:48 pm
2017 Ryan J. Got called for holing twice and had one unnecessary roughness call that didn’t cost his team any yards. Grand total of 20 penalty yards all season.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:51 pm
Lakeland, I think deep down all JBFers know that Rome wasn’t built in a day. It’ll take at least another year to become a division contender IMO. A solid 2018 draft, a couple more FAs added (at least 1 outside CB in particular), and we could at least break-even this year.
March 18th, 2018 at 6:59 pm
@Def Rules
The key for our defensive line is for our opposing QB to HOLD THE BALL LONGER so they pressure the qb
those top defenses you mentioned have corners that will defend the Los and the short game which will allow time for the defensive front to get to the QB
We need a fitspatrick/ward who can defent/jump the short routes so the opposing QB will hesitate and hold the ball
***the defensive tackles “push” are being more relevant and effective because it creates instant qb pressure while the DE/lber takes too long(steps) to get in front of/ pressure the qb because offensive playcalling is entirely based on getting the ball out before the pressure
**fitzpartrick might not be ramsey but if he is similar to saints lattimore…our defense will be top 15 defense
March 18th, 2018 at 7:05 pm
DR as a Buc fan from day 1 I understand the frustration but posters who think the Glazers or Licht don’t care about losing kill me. There is no quick fix, no FA we sign who puts us over the top. Hopefully this year we find more good players and get moving in the right direction; last year was a big step back because a lot of people (me included) thought we were over the hump.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:07 pm
I’m against drafting a RB in the 1st round. My guys are LT/RT Ryan Ramczyk,
—-_____________
I’d take either cook or Ramcyzk. I was right there with you Lakeland. But Ojay, hmm okay!
March 18th, 2018 at 7:19 pm
Jensen seems like a strong addition, should cut Sweezy’s check though. Marpet back at Guard will be a win-win.
How do we all feel about the Top 10 of the draft at this point?????
Go Bucs!
March 18th, 2018 at 7:37 pm
Kobe, being a long-time Bama fan I’d LOVE to see us draft Minkah, but maybe not for the same reason most would have. I see him as a ‘new breed’ of CB AND Safety … capable of playing either one (after a period of NFL adjustment of course). Secondary players with his versatility could provide a REAL headache to NFL offenses IF he’s being used in the right defense by the right coaches. But an equal plus IMO is Minkah’s leadership skills. Watched every Bama game this year, and when he went out, the Bama defense wasn’t nearly as effective IMO. Other players looked to him for leadership, and that an intangible that fans far too often overlook I think. I miss guys like John Lynch, and Derrick Brooks & yes, Warren Sapp. Minkah could bring some of that back to us IMO.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:37 pm
SCBucsFan
if the glazers truly cared about winning and hated losing as you state it would no be 16 years between meaningful wins.
you act like they have been bad a few months not nearly two decades.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:44 pm
We WILL be able to draft either Nelson, Chubb or Saquon … good times ahead imho.
March 18th, 2018 at 7:45 pm
NFLNUT,
I hope one of the trio is there at 7. That’s the dream!
March 18th, 2018 at 7:49 pm
****************
EVERYONE say it with me:
“Saquon, Chubb, Nelson or TRADE DOWN!”
****************
March 18th, 2018 at 7:50 pm
SteveK,
I no longer see it as a dream but more of a foregone conclusion …
March 18th, 2018 at 7:56 pm
I like the idea of having an offensive line like the cowboys have had with the drafting of Nelson
I like the idea of having so many weapons, teams have no clue what to take away if we draft Barkley
I have no problem making the secondary better by drafting either Fitzpatrick, D. James or Ward
But without a pass rush and maybe Buckner is the guy to get it done, but you Better hope Spence is 💯 if you avoid trading up for Chubb… maybe going after Chad Thomas in the 3rd, he has the size and “the potential” to be solid
March 18th, 2018 at 8:02 pm
Since 2007 the Bucs last playoff year they’ve finished 9-7 twice and 10-6 once. The Bucs have been pretty bad but they’ve also had a tougher time then most to make the post season due to the division strength. 9-7 gets you in the playoffs 52.3% and 10-6 88.9% these circumstances do deservesome of the blame.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:06 pm
Stanglassman
Bottom line is not a meaningful game in 11 years and not a single meaningful win since super bowl…. tough division is just another excuse on the never ending list of excuses to justify failure
March 18th, 2018 at 8:07 pm
^ Very true … in 2016 we were also better than the Lions and had more impressive wins than the Lions but they were in the easier division and won the “tie-breaker” …
March 18th, 2018 at 8:10 pm
I hope so, NFLNut.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:12 pm
They better bring Hawley back as a backup. If they put Jensen in at center, I would feel a lot better having Hawley available…just in case.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:14 pm
That wasn’t actually a cheap shot. Quarterback was a runner.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:14 pm
The NFC South has some weak seasons also
Carolina won the division in 2014 with a 7-8-1 record
The Bucs went 2-14
March 18th, 2018 at 8:15 pm
^ Didn’t Hawley lose like 30 pounds with the intention of retiring? If so, NO TO JOE HAWLEY!
March 18th, 2018 at 8:20 pm
The Bucs has made the other teams in the division look better than they are.
2 games against the Bucs every year
Give the other teams an edge in the NFC
Also New Orleans, Atlanta, Carolina don’t make the playoffs every season
The NFC South isn’t that tough to me
March 18th, 2018 at 8:24 pm
Last season 3 teams from the division made the playoffs
But only 7 seasons has 2 teams from the NFC South made the playoffs
And the division was created in 2002
March 18th, 2018 at 8:26 pm
Bnomo Says
“Question?
If Mr. Chubb is such a bad asp, could really revitalize the Bucs defence, would it not be worthwhile for the Bucs give up 1,2,3, maybe for draft picks in this year’s draft to get him?”
Oh heck no. That reeks of desperation. We should NOT trade up. Down? Maybe. No further than 12.
Chubb is not the only DE in the draft, and I promise you…he’s probably not going to be the only elite one to come from this draft either.
In fact, he could turn out to be a bust. Just because he is ranked high and played well in college, that doesn’t mean he will succeed in the NFL. Plenty of examples of that over the years.
One, for example, was Courtney Brown. He was taken first overall. Total bust. Along with Derrick Harvey (8th). That’s just two. There are plenty.
But if we could move down, maybe to 12 in a trade with the Bills, we would pick up a few good picks and add plenty to the roster. If Licht is smart, that’s what he’ll be trying to do. If he doesn’t pick up at least an extra second rounder somehow, well…he’s not doing his job right.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:27 pm
And, BTW…Suh was not in on that play.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:29 pm
Agree, Bonzai, if Robert Quinn isn’t worth our 3rd, then we shouldn’t part with multiple early picks for Chubb.
I am hopeful a really good player is available at 7. I hope 4 QBs go in the top 6.
My biggest fear is Jon Robinson and the Titans trading up ahead of us to take our guy. Much like he did for Jacob conklin and he was a rookie All Pro.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:30 pm
Buccaneer Bonzai
I have watched Bradley Chubb play 3 times against Clemson. And he didn’t show me anything. I think that Bradley Chubb is the best DE in a weak draft class. But he is not a “elite” talent at the position.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:31 pm
LakeLand Says
“Sweezy was a mauler in Seattle with Tom Cable coaching him. He come to Tampa and melt like GMC ice cream.”
He needed time to get back in his grove after more than a year off. Plus, he was not in football shape.
He improved as the year went on. That’s what people are forgetting. In the second half of the year, both he and Marpet were doing very well. But…people tend to focus on the first half because that’s when they played worse, so it is more memorable.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:32 pm
I would have traded a 3rd for Robert Quinn and a 4th for Michael Bennett.
That’s my opinion
March 18th, 2018 at 8:33 pm
^ I agree with Lakeland … I don’t see “elite” talent or production when I watch Chubb … I do think he is easily the best DE in the draft though and would be the best DE on our team from Day 1, so, I’d be happy with him at #7.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:35 pm
I don’t fear anything. If we stay at 7 a really good player will fall to us.
If we trade down, a good player will fall to us.
Happens every year.
Man, I love watching the draft. Wish it didn’t fall on my anniversary so often.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:41 pm
@Lakeland … “The NFC South isn’t that tough to me.” Uhh, 11-5, 11-5, 10-6 versus our 5-11. All 3 are much better balanced teams than we are Lakeland. We’ve played them close much of the time, but close only counts in horse shoes as they say.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:44 pm
Defense Rules,
Last season the division was the best in the NFL
But that haven’t been the case every year
March 18th, 2018 at 8:45 pm
Here’s how I look at it…if we stay at 7, we get a choice of great players. I figure at least 3-4 of the 8 guys below will be there to choose from because of QB selections. That leaves a very pretty set of options.
DT Vita Vea
DE Marcus Davenport
OG Nelson Quenton
RB Saquon Barkley
DT Da’Ron Payne
S Derwin JAmes
RB Derrius Guice
DE Harold Landry
March 18th, 2018 at 8:46 pm
Oh, and Chubb of course, don’t know why I did not put him there.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:48 pm
Buccaneer Bonzai Says:
March 18th, 2018 at 8:14 pm
That wasn’t actually a cheap shot. Quarterback was a runner.
———————————————————————
You’ve gotta be joking. It was clear and evident to every other defender around him that Flacco was giving himself up. The refs threw the flag. Alonso was fined. Every sane person who is even semi football literate looks at it and see’s a clear cheap shot. But not you Bonzai. Because you’re special.
March 18th, 2018 at 8:48 pm
LakeLand Says
“Last season the division was the best in the NFL
But that haven’t been the case every year”
No, but it has been among the top 3 in each of the last 3 years. First the Panthers go to the Bowl, then the Falcons, then we get three teams in the playoffs. Only thing tougher would is to be in the Patriots division…
March 18th, 2018 at 8:49 pm
^
EVERYONE say it with me:
“Saquon, Chubb, Nelson or TRADE DOWN!”
March 18th, 2018 at 8:55 pm
The Patriots division has been a joke for over 15 years … Brady got to the SB last year by beating division teams QB’s by Jay Cutler, Josh McCown and Tyrod Taylor and then beating teams QB’s by Mariota and Bortles … but then he got beat by a real team QB’d by Nick Foles.
Brady has had an easy ride nearly his entire career … even moreso than LeBron in the weak Eastern Conference in the NBA …
March 18th, 2018 at 9:01 pm
Sign Suh. Joe, bang the drum for that guy. GMC and Suh would keep OCs awake at night.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:04 pm
NFLNut
Brady has had a bullseye on his back for a ling time. I bet every single opponent they play gets up for them and gives them the most hell they can conjure up. I know if I was competing against the GOAT, I’d do my damnest to win that game.
While his divisional QB counterparts aren’t the best, some of those teams have had solid defenses in years past.
LeBron is one of 5 guys on the court, and there are so many more possessions in a basketball game. Brady is a QB in the NFL, and imho that job is tougher because more people have to be on point and possessions are precious.
Also, LeBron is a top 5 player all time at this point and Brady is the GOAT. Good comparison, but I think your underselling Brady. A 40 y/o just won MVP. I’d love to see LeBron win an mvp at 35 let alone 40.
There most likely won’t be another great QB like Brady, ever, and almost just as rare as getting to see the “greatest of all time” in another major sport? We can hate the Patriots all we want, but there is no denying Brady is the best ever.
How many games would the patriots win if Brady wasn’t there? Sure Belichick is a phenomenal cosch, but he can’t execute and produce on the field.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:07 pm
Nut…there are 4-5 players I’d take if your 3 are gone…of course I’d consider trading down if teams came knocking…but also would not feel the need to shop the pick…CB -Ward -Edge Davenport-LB Edwards- James or Fitzgerald….
March 18th, 2018 at 9:10 pm
NUT…..We have about 8 or so holes we are trying to fill right now on Dline.
Doesn’t that force you to go Chubb?
March 18th, 2018 at 9:13 pm
JimmyJack
That’s why I would have traded a 3rd and 4th for Robert Quinn and Michael Bennett. Those two would have eliminated a lot of holes.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:14 pm
BRADY is absolutely NOT the G.O.A.T. and imho the only people who think he is are people who don’t know the history of football, or even what goes into playing QB.
To me Brady is the “GOTSBE” which stands for “Greatest of the Super Bowl Era” but he’s not even close to the real GOAT, Otto Graham.
I also do NOT consider Brady the “best” QB of the Super Bowl era, only the “greatest” as that term factors in team success, whereas everyone knows what “best” means. Dan Marino was “better” than Joe Montana but Joe is considered to have had the far “greater” career.
As for your question … the Patriots made the playoffs with Matt Cassell … Brady is and always has been a system QB … he was a 6th round draft pick for a reason … he was benched in favor of Drew Henson at Michigan for a reason … he was a mere game-manager in the NFL for years for a reason … he has nowhere near the arm talent of Marino, Favre, Elway, Rodgers and many others and is nowhere neat the all-around talent of an Elway, Steve Young, Rodgers or many others. He’s insanely smart and even more dedicated to his craft and he has the undeniable GOAT Coach … and it’s worked out perfectly for him.
As for LeBron … LeBron is infinitely “better” as an NBA player than Brady is as an NFL player … but Brady deserves to rank higher on an NFL GOAT list than LeBron does on an NBA GOAT list due to the incredible amount of team success he’s ben a part of … but there’s no comparison between the two in regards to talent …
March 18th, 2018 at 9:17 pm
Most of the players we read about in the draft we do just that – read about. I don’t know enough about these guys to know who the pick should be, but as you look at all the misses it’s not like the pundits or teams do either. Hopefully who our team wants is there at 7, if not I hope we fall back (not too much) and get an additional high pick.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:22 pm
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ALTERED EGO,
I would be DISGUSTED if we took Davenport or Edwards at #7.
I’d be fine with Minkah or James or Ward if no good trade offers came in and we had to take a player and Saquon/Chubb/Nelson are already gone.
JIMMYJACK,
I take it you’re asking if Chubb, Saquon and Nelson are all still on the board if I feel the team MUST take Chubb … I’d say no. I may take him ahead of the other two as he is indeed a huge “need”, however RB and OG are also needs, so it’s not like they would simply be luxury picks. That said, I feel going BPA makes the most sense, and to me both Saquon and Quenton Nelson are “better” players than Bradley Chubb. Saquon can be a top 5 RB as a rookie and Nelson can be a top 5 OG as a rookie while both of them have HOF potential … Chubb … I think Chubb can be a solid rookie that gets 6-8 sacks and can develop into a Pro Bowl caliber DE that can get 8-12 sacks a year; I’m not sure he’ll ever be an All-Pro though and don’t see HOF potential with him, at least not to the extent I see such in Saquon and Nelson.
LAKELAND,
Taking both Quinn and Bennett would have also cost us around $20m in cap space so it means we would not have Jensen and Curry … so you’re saying having Quinn and Bennett is better than having Jensen, Curry, a 3rd and a 4th round pick … I think Licht disagreed with such … you’re right this team has a lot of holes, so having just 2 DEs take up the cap space of 4 starters probably wasn’t something Licht was comfortable with.
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March 18th, 2018 at 9:23 pm
And saying Brady had a easy ride is a bit of a stretch when he has been to twenty(how many?) Super Bowls?
I thought he had a lot of tough competition over the years against some really good Pittsburgh, Indy and Baltimore teams. You go back over the years and look at his record against those three teams and it’s pretty remarkable. I’d be surprised if more then a few QBs in history could rival Brady’s record against similar competition.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:23 pm
A huge draft class as always…..if this franchise can not step up to the tabel and pick a player…when only 6 others have been taken…well then i have lost all faith…REALLY…when your internet GM’s turn comes and 6 name 3 or 4 QB’s which we are not in the market for…again …so with only 2 or 3 players taken you can’t find one to come in and be a long term starter…..SMH….
March 18th, 2018 at 9:29 pm
JimmyJack,
I said Brady had an easy ride in his division, not necessarily his conference … he has a losing playoff record against Manning … he destroys the Steelers though.
IMO Bellichick is infinitely more valuable to the Patriots than Brady is and it’s always been that way. Brady is not an all-time “all-around talent” nor does he have all-time “arm talent” … he’s a warrior with insane dedication and drive but his skills aren’t legendary by any stretch of the imagination and I believe he is largely a product of Bellichick … I know that may not be a popular opinion but I value my opinion more than I value anyone else’s, so that doesn’t bother me.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:30 pm
AE GMs and staffs, whose jobs count on them making the correct picks and spend all year evaluating talent, miss picks. It happens. In all sports.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:31 pm
NUT….I’ll leave that up to the scouts. I would never say a guy is a MUST because these teams have reasons to pass on player.
But I think they better becare if they pass on Chubb and he becomes elite. Whoever they get better be leading us to titles…..Like I said 8 holes on our Dline and it has been that way for a decade+ now.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:34 pm
JimmyJack,
I will say it’s a MUST that we get either Saquon, Chubb or Nelson and if we can’t, that it’s a MUST we trade down if we can … though I’d be cool with Minkah, Ward … and maybe Derwin … NOT Davenport or any of the LB’s, DT’s or T’s in the draft though.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:36 pm
Peace out for a while … binging a show with my kids
March 18th, 2018 at 9:38 pm
JimmyJack,
Michael Bennett and Robert Quinn would cost $18 million. But Allen, Unrein, Curry will cost $17 million. Also after they have waive Gholston and Ayers, that would have created more space.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:39 pm
Lakeland Quinn does sound good on paper. But I can’t blame to Bucs too hard for that one.
Eight holes on that line makes you consider Quinn differently. Instead of Quinn we got two players who can play at an NFL level. That accusation fills two of the holes and the draft picks Quin cost you another guy we are going to need to fill one of those holes.
It three guys your looking at to fill eight holes or…….
You got Quinn to fill eight hole………
Neither fits really.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:42 pm
JimmyJack,
They could have Bennett, Quinn, Urein, Curry and Allen
March 18th, 2018 at 9:44 pm
$35 miilion for all 5 of them
Cut Gholston, Ayers, $35 million is not that much for 5 good DL players
March 18th, 2018 at 9:45 pm
Buccnbeliever Says
“Sign Suh. Joe, bang the drum for that guy. GMC and Suh would keep OCs awake at night.”
Not to mention every other team in our division is showing an interest in him. So that means there are 3 of about 7 chances that we would have to face him in our division.
But, that feels like a desperation move if we do it for that reason. I know it would be an instant upgrade though. Teams have to double team him because if they don’t he will put the hurt on their QB. That would free up McCoy.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:45 pm
LakeLand, Ayers was already cut.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:47 pm
I don’t know how you can say that Lakeland. I don’t know how much Bennet and Quinn make but you may not be able to get those two plus Allen Unrien and Curry within whatever the budget is.
I think they are done spending on Dlineman and have just enough to get us a Corner or can start for us and a RB. Hopefully a Safety too.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:51 pm
But I do agree to cut Ayers if it saves you money. He was hucking ferrible last year.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:52 pm
Tell Gholston to go play paddy cake over in New Orleans.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:54 pm
Bonzai,
I know Ayers was cut, but I would have cut Gholston also
Michael Bennett
2108 salary | $6,650,000
William Gholston
2018 salary | $6,500,000
Even if I didn’t trade for Robert Quinn, I would have traded for Michael Bennett and cut William Gholston.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:55 pm
JimmyJack Says
“8 holes on our Dline and it has been that way for a decade+ now.”
There are only 4 positions on the Dline, buddy. So not eight holes. More like three holes on the Dline.
As to the whole defense?
Someone help me list the holes there…
Starting only
1 DT, 1 DE, 1 CB, 1 Safety, 1 RB, 1 OG, 1 OT
Shoot, after the free agent signings, that’s all I can think of. And really, even that might not be right. If Spence pulls a McCoy, then after 2 years injured out of the gate, he could be the DE we need.
Justin Evans looked decent in his rookie year. If he takes a leap forward this year, we won’t need a player for his spot. Conte was re-signed, so that buys us a year there.
Grimes re-signed. If VHIII bounces back after a bad sophomore year, we may not need a CB this year. Unless we get one to replace Grimes in a year.
And Ryan Smith? Well, he’s not a bust yet…and last year was his first at his natural position since being drafted. He had ups and downs. How he responds could change everything.
So far as I am concerned…we can focus on both lines and RB and I would be more than happy. This year.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:55 pm
2018 not 2108 lol
March 18th, 2018 at 9:55 pm
Kobe, being a long-time Bama fan I’d LOVE to see us draft Minkah, but maybe not for the same reason most would have. I see him as a ‘new breed’ of CB AND Safety … capable of playing either one (after a period of NFL adjustment of course). Secondary players with his versatility could provide a REAL headache to NFL offenses IF he’s being used in the right defense by the right coaches. But an equal plus IMO is Minkah’s leadership skills. Watched every Bama game this year, and when he went out, the Bama defense wasn’t nearly as effective IMO. Other players looked to him for leadership, and that an intangible that fans far too often overlook I think. I miss guys like John Lynch, and Derrick Brooks & yes, Warren Sapp. Minkah could bring some of that back to us IMO.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:56 pm
LakeLand Says
“Bonzai,
I know Ayers was cut, but I would have cut Gholston also”
I have to agree with you there. He;s always injured and we pretty much signed a guy to replace him this week. I’m guessing you will get your wish at some point.
March 18th, 2018 at 9:57 pm
Robert Quinn will make $11,444,412 this year
March 18th, 2018 at 9:57 pm
Kobe, being a long-time Bama fan I’d LOVE to see us draft Minkah, but maybe not for the same reason most would have. I see him as a ‘new breed’ of CB AND Safety … capable of playing either one (after a period of NFL adjustment of course). Secondary players with his versatility could provide a REAL headache to NFL offenses IF he’s being used in the right defense by the right coaches.
But an equal plus IMO is Minkah’s leadership skills. Watched every Bama game this year, and when he went out, the Bama defense wasn’t nearly as effective IMO. Other players looked to him for leadership, and that an intangible that fans far too often overlook I think. I miss guys like John Lynch, and Derrick Brooks & yes, Warren Sapp. Minkah could bring some of that back to us IMO.
Joe, not being picky, but I have zero idea why this comment is in moderation. Could you give me a hint?
March 18th, 2018 at 10:06 pm
Well is there some kind of deal with Gholston? Maybe his contract structure or something?
I can’t see anybody thinking Gholston is better then any other high salary player. I have him listed as one of those eight holes their trying to fill right now.
I did like Will in 2016 but he just didn’t have it last year. I see him being replaced ounless he pulls a magical 360…..not betting on that.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:08 pm
Gholston still has guaranteed money on the books. It’s really that simple guys.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:17 pm
Yea Lakeland I saw that yesterday.
The Bucs could have gotten Bennet, Blount and Pouncey for the same cash as unrein, Allen, Catanzaro, Jensen.
Wish some change left over.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:24 pm
@JimmyJack
We take a $6.5 million dollar cap hit if we cut Gholston….He’s not going anywhere….and really doesn’t have much incentive at this point to restructure.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:30 pm
Did someone say Suh was in on that play? It was later in the game when Ryan Mallet was Qb.
And by the way just because the Qb was a runner doesn’t mean you can Jack Tatum (forearm to the head for you youngsters) the dude.
March 18th, 2018 at 10:42 pm
Lol TBBF……so basically you have those same eight holes to fill on the Dline. And you have to fill them with 6.5 million less dollars. I mean I guess you can say he is a depth guy but would you be shocked out your mind if he wasn’t on the team next year?
March 18th, 2018 at 10:47 pm
Let’s just hope Gholston earns his $6.5….because we owe it regardless. I don’t know what was wrong with him last year….Tmax would tell you it was GMCs fault.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:27 pm
TBBF……I’m more hopeful of any 4or5th round end we get then Gholston honestly. I’d be much more excited to see some fresh blood come in here and beat him out.
March 18th, 2018 at 11:45 pm
****************
LAKELAND,
Licht chose Ryan Jensen, Vinny Curry, a 3rd and 5th round pick
over
Michael Bennett and Robert Quinn
I’m 100% fine with Licht’s decision.
****************
March 18th, 2018 at 11:53 pm
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LAKELAND,
Put another way, we know that all Quinn was worth to the Bills was a 4th and 6th rounder (but that we would have probably needed to do a 3rd to get him) and all Bennett was worth was a mid 5th rounder to the Eagles.
So, you’re saying that the Bucs should have believed Bennett’s value was actually an early 5th rounder AND Vinny Curry …. and that the Bucs should have believed Quinn’s value was actually an early 3rd rounder AND Ryan Jensen.
There is NO WAY Licht saw things the way you do …
Now, please tell me WHY you view Bennett as being worth the younger Vinny Curry AND a 5th rounder when all the Eagles had to give for him was the equivalent of a mid 5th round pick.
And, tell me WHY you view Quinn as being worth an early 3rd rounder AND Ryan Jensen when all the Dolphins had to give up to get him was a mid 4th and mid 6th rounder?
**********************
March 19th, 2018 at 12:10 am
Have explained it many times over the years. Unless you have specifically been placed in moderation (those that cannot behave have), either the software doesn’t recognize the IP address you were using; the IP address has a sketchy past; you are using some funky HTML code; using links or you were using a word or words that are verbotten are usually the first things that spring to mind why your comments ended up in moderation.
Joe doesn’t write software so a specific answer is just an educated guess.
March 19th, 2018 at 12:25 am
Kobe is right WE WONT WIN UNTIL OUR PUTRID PASS COVERAGE IS SOLVED…I like this center though.
March 19th, 2018 at 12:43 am
NFLNut,
Actually, the Dolphins gave up their 4th and their 6th (183) to the Rams for Robert Quinn and the Rams 6th (209).
So it would have took a 3rd to top this.
Seattle traded Michael Bennett and their 7th round pick for the Eagles 5th and WR Marcus Johnson. Johnson is a 23 year old WR with 4.3 speed, who need to be developed. But he has shown promise.
So it would have taken a 4th to top that.
March 19th, 2018 at 12:52 am
^ Correct but my point stands. WHY do you feel those players are worth those picks AND Vinny Curry and Ryan Jensen?
March 19th, 2018 at 12:55 am
The 3rd to the Rams would have sealed the trade. The 4th to the Seahawks would have sealed the trade. It’s not much more than what they got from the Dolphins and the Eagles. But you will have two good football players who can come in and instantly improve your team. You won’t get that from your 3rd and 4th round draft pick.
If my job is on the line, I make the trades
Then try to regain some picks with my 1st and 2nd round picks
March 19th, 2018 at 1:00 am
Ryan Jensen, Michael Bennett, Beau Allen, Robert Quinn, Vinny Curry, Mitch Unrein combine is about $45 million.
The Bucs could have afforded that
And they can still create more space
March 19th, 2018 at 1:08 am
I forgot they front loaded Will Gholston guaranteed money for 2017-2018.
March 19th, 2018 at 1:14 am
That was a good contract for Will Gholston, but not for the Bucs. Next year he’s on the books for $3,750,000. So if they cut him next year, it won’t hurt him that bad.
March 19th, 2018 at 1:33 am
Donald Penn was quick to protect his teammates- in a damn nasty way-
Didnt make the rest of his linemates any better or worse
Donavan Smith shows a mean streak, for that Matter. He actually plays “Meaner” than Penn or Sweezy( at his best)
Its a BS, imaginary thing, thrown around by losing teams.
“We need to get Meaner”
BullSh*t
You need to get more atheletic, more talented, and mostly – more intelligent.
Lets see how our New Center performs. He actually looks really good in The Raven’s system.
And we’ll see if Marpet teturns to form at guard, or is “highly overrated at guard” as some Buc Brass Told Joe.
Everyone is down on Sweezy. He didnt play bad, he just didnt play great
He missed an entire year. It usually takes another year to get back where you were.
Good possibility its Marpet-Jensen-Sweezy
That could be interesting
March 19th, 2018 at 6:22 am
problem: out best d-lineman has a sweet dispo
March 19th, 2018 at 9:16 am
https://www.joebucsfan.com/2015/10/the-fightin-bucs-offense/
Can’t have it both ways Joe. Do you remember when Ali mixed in up in Jacksonville? Or in New Orleans when he was right in the middle of the scuffle? Thought you were better then calling Ali soft Joe, especially since your poster child is doughboy Kaufman.
What a poor reader/good word twister you appear to be. First, the quest for nasty is one driven by the Bucs after the loss of Logan Mankins. For some reason, it’s a major focus for the club despite the presence of Marpet and Smith, two guys not considered “nasty.” Joe’s only looking for wins. And the New Orleans scuffle was nothing more than a pure embarrassment for Jameis and the organization, not some sort of take-charge moment on the field. Joe is a fan of Marpet. –Joe
March 19th, 2018 at 1:38 pm
I love it. But is a cheap shot on Kiki Alonso worth an extra 4 or so Mil a year? That sure seems like the surcharge for a guy who’s started 1 of 5 seasons
March 19th, 2018 at 4:25 pm
Chubb in 7 or trade down.