No Pass Rush A Big Culprit
November 21st, 2017
“What do I look like, David Copperfield?”
It was a statistic that Joe nearly fell over backwards reading.
Yes, the howls you heard throughout your neighborhood Sunday afternoon weren’t coming from people who just figured out they were low on alcohol and didn’t have enough supplies to get them through the second half.
It was the shrieks of terror watching the Lovie Smith-like pass defense get lit up like the damned Christmas tree you have to erect next week. Six times the Matt Moore-led Dolphins converted on third-and-eight or longer.
Six times! That’s insane. Winning Bucs coach Dirk Koetter believes he knows the problem.
“One, [Moore] just had too much time,” Koetter said Monday. “It starts with that. You give any quarterback that much time and you’re playing zone defense – the guy is in the NFL. He has enough time against zone defense. You’re going to find a hole. Too much time.”
And folks, the cavalry isn’t riding in any time soon. As Koetter likes to say, “Our guys are our guys.” No one on the street currently Christmas shopping and looking for a telemarketing gig is going to give the Bucs a pass rush overnight.
The Bucs have who they have. It’s the bed they have made. The pass rush won’t be improving until at least March. Get used to it; Here is sampling of quarterbacks the Bucs will face the rest of the season:
Matty Ice (twice)
Matt Stafford
Cam Newton
Drew Brees
Get your popcorn ready… with a side of Pepto-Bismol.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:06 am
Expected to find the GM’s name somewhere in the column
November 21st, 2017 at 8:12 am
5-11 with so many questions about the alleged franchise quarterback (physically & mentally) let alone the defense. It’s so hard to be a fan of this team, ten years of trash, beat downs and false hope.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:15 am
We are 3 good drafts away from being a playoff team.
How can anyone think we have the talent to be a winning football team?
November 21st, 2017 at 8:16 am
Can I just say?
Before the last draft, practically everyone here wanted us to draft mostly defense, especially in the early rounds.
So I don’t think hardly anyone here has a right to complain.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:17 am
By ‘here’ I mean followers of JBF, not in this thread.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:20 am
We know that we rush the QB and Koetter is speaking about time to get to the QB, so we need to get there faster.
Why the hell do we not blitz more DBs off the edge??? This used to be a Tampa Bay staple play!!!!! The few times we have done it have caused quick, off balance throws.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:21 am
This may be a stupid question….but if the zone defense is vulnerable with no pass rush….why use it?
November 21st, 2017 at 8:22 am
…The few times we have done it have caused quick, off balance throws.
Which can lead to turnovers. Or better yet, no throw and a sack
November 21st, 2017 at 8:22 am
Destinjohnny Says
“We are 3 good drafts away from being a playoff team.”
No, we are one good off season away from being a contender.
If you don’t believe this team is heading in the right direction, then you need to re-evaluate your opinion.
We have a new offensive line that is coming together during this season…and has been improving mostly from game to game.
We have a fantastic wider receiver group.
We have a fantastic tight end group.
We have a fantastic linebackers group.
We have a decent safety group.
We have a rapidly improving cornerback group.
We have a franchise quarterback who set records his first two years…and is falsely accused of ‘touching’ a woman in the wrong place (not ‘groping’ as many here are claiming. The driver said it was a ‘touch’).
All we lack is a pass rush and a good running game.
Gain some perspective.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:23 am
Oh, and we have a fantastic punter and a fantastic kicker (surprisingly).
November 21st, 2017 at 8:26 am
Zone isn’t the problem, in my opinion. The free release for receivers is.
Here goes the cliche’: The NFL is now an uptempo style offense built on quick throws, read option/read option-style play action. Pay attention to all playoff bound teams and how their offenses are run the majority of the time. They are all doing this.
Do we not need to disrupt the routes if extra time is needed to get to the QB?
November 21st, 2017 at 8:35 am
Joe, is the filter set to assume parenthesis as spam or something. Every time I use them, I get moderated. If it is set that way, I’ll stop using them.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:37 am
BucDan Says
“The NFL is now an uptempo style offense built on quick throws, read option/read option-style play action.”
This is true.
The thing I have yet to understand is this…in Atlanta, Koetter started the fast, no huddle offensive tradition there, I think.
Here, Jameis does his best work in no huddle.
And yet, Koetter only uses it here when the team is behind.
I don’t know what prompted this change in the way he called games, but I wish he’d go back to it. I suspect we would not only win more games, but the media would seriously consider the Bucs a true threat.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:46 am
When will Dirk Koetter wake up to how good this offense is? And that’s with a backup QB that I don’t trust. Please call the right offensive game next Sunday in Atlanta, Dirk.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:53 am
Buc Bonzai,
You ask why Coach Koetter has changed his offense? The QB can’t throw players open across the field.
We have Mike Evans so used to it that he catches every ball and curls the hell up on the ground because he loses all momentum. (This is a whole other complaint)
I want JW to be great. He plays well. When is the last time he hit somebody in stride? Dropped a dime into someone’s hands one the sideline? Corner of the end zone?
November 21st, 2017 at 8:55 am
Hey PC, you think YOUVE been put through the ringer?? What about the BUCS FANS from 1983 to 1997 who put up with every year except ONE of double digit losing seasons!! Every year! Once in a while you would see the Bucs get better at the end of a season, usually with a high draft pick looking to get better, which led to a better start the next season, lots of optimism, only to have the same thing happen over and over.
Like then, there was no pass rush, the Bucs tried to rehash the pass rush of the late 70s and early 80s behind HOF Lee Roy Selmon (sound familiar) but cheap ownership sabotaged it every year, until the owner finally died, and the trust put the team up for sale to a MAN who was a great owner, Malcom Glazer. I seriously question the Glazers sons ability to own a football team. If Winston is guilty of this, then the Bucs are fools for vetting him only to be burned by him only a year after drafting him. OR, we may be right around the corner of getting better. Somehow, I doubt it, because ive seen a LOT of losing Bucs football.
November 21st, 2017 at 8:55 am
First off the obvious….YES…ANY NFL QB who is given time will carve ANY NFL secondary. As we’ve seen so many times over the years even unheralded backups have carved us up.
And it’s not all about lack of sacks…there are ways to disrupt the timing of a QB and his WR’s that don’t necessarily require sacking the QB…but we’re not even making QB’s uncomfortable…we can’t even more them off their spot. We’re not even getting pressure much less sacks.
Now I love the line under the picture…”Do I look like David Copperfield”.
Licht is not David Copperfield either. He’s made ONE GLARING draft mistake with Ohnono. Remember though he basically had to rebuild this entire team.
Lovie had traded away the Donald Penns and Michael Bennetts and left nobody to replace them.
So here’s a clue…it’s difficult to totally rebuild an NFL franchise on both offense and defense in just a couple of years. We spent a #1 draft pick on #3. I think we all still feel..at least as of today…that was well spent…but it’s more than just a pick. How many picks could have fleshed this team out if we had traded that #1 for multiple other picks? Not saying we should have just pointing out we invested our draft capital in Jameis bigtime…and again I believe it was worth it…but it DID come with a price. Then we had to get weapons for that major investment including an OL….So Licht drafts D Smith and Ali Marpet. Marpet has turned out to be the real deal…some here dislike Smith but even if you give them their gripe…that’s still 50% success rate…the statistical norm for ALL NFL GM’s.
So think guys. If 50% of NFL draft picks fail…if you get 7 picks…it simply takes time.
So then you’re left trying to cover deficiencies and sometimes grasping with more hope than confidence. IF Noah Spence had turned out what so many people believed he was going to be that would have been HUGE. IF Jack Smith had stayed healthy that would have been HUGE. Licht was desperate and hoped those two would stay healthy.
Yeah hindsight is 20/20 and there will be those who come here hating Licht who will say it’s obvious to them that these two were not going to hold up. Perhaps but when the team has so many needs you have to have to make choices.
And PLEASE…STOP coming here and pointing out past drafts and saying but if Licht had drafted this guy and not that guy we’d be better off. Again hindsight is 20/20…once a guy has succeeded in the league it’s easy to say we should have picked him….AFTER HE HAS SUCCEEDED!!! But going into every draft there is a 50% chance of failure…BEFORE you make the selection. The wise guys who come here and boast of their selections AFTER the guy succeeds are absurd!!!
I’m just writing this season off as the perfect storm that literally started with a devastating hurricane moving byes and moving players and families all over the place for a week. Then Noah goes down…Kwon…LVD for a couple of games…Grimes….
It takes time to build a consistent winner and we clearly are not that deep yet.
I say…#ONEMOREYEAR Wipe the slate and give Licht/Koetter/Smitty one more year to see what we really have. No I do not support failure…but there are causes for failure and we need to be careful to avoid knee jerk reactions and change just for the sake of change.
November 21st, 2017 at 9:09 am
Won’t be fixed in March- incompetent
November 21st, 2017 at 9:12 am
It was the shrieks of terror watching the Lovie Smith-like pass defense get lit up like the damned Christmas tree you have to erect next week.
WRONG JOE!!!!
it was like watching smitty’s defense get lit up yet again…..cant blame lovie anymore….smitty’s been here for 2 years now…..this is his defense getting lit up!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 9:14 am
Tampabaybucfan Says:
November 21st, 2017 at 8:21 am
This may be a stupid question….but if the zone defense is vulnerable with no pass rush….why use it?
because you hope to limit them to worst case a long drive that eats up a lot of clock and you stop them before the goal-line and they just kick the field goal, Best case is they make a mistake and have to punt the ball!!!!! It is a huge Tampa-2 concept, and when you look at advance analytics it reduces the opposing offenses by 2 less drives.
November 21st, 2017 at 9:20 am
Destinjohnny Says:
November 21st, 2017 at 8:15 am
We are 3 good drafts away from being a playoff team.
How can anyone think we have the talent to be a winning football team?
that wasn’t said in 2015 when we lost 4 in a row….most felt(licht included) that we should’ve made the playoffs…..many felt we should’ve made the playoffs last year….now all of a sudden we’re 3 drafts away?….BS….we should be in the playoff race this year if we had a competent HC, OC & DC…..
this team is talented enough to make the playoffs this year right now but the coaching staff is holding us back…..GO BUCS!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 9:22 am
Tampabaybucfan Says:
November 21st, 2017 at 8:21 am
This may be a stupid question….but if the zone defense is vulnerable with no pass rush….why use it?
^^BINGO^^
#INCOMPETENTCOACHES….GO BUCS!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 9:26 am
“All we lack is a pass rush and a good running game.” – a.k.a an offensive line, defensive line, linebacker depth, and a running back…
November 21st, 2017 at 9:30 am
Good point realist,but the second half was just a little too tense because of it.
Kinda wish we had scored one more TD before we went in to Prevent mode.
November 21st, 2017 at 9:32 am
Execution on first drive of second half also has to get better.
November 21st, 2017 at 9:36 am
The Bucs hasn’t had a decent pass rush in 12 years. They have been satisfied with the trash that they have. They even went two drafts, drafting all offense players ( outside of Kwon). If they really wanted a pass rush, they would have address the problem during the offseason.
November 21st, 2017 at 9:42 am
@realist
LOL….opposing teams score within a blink of an eye against our defense….they go down the field and score and we go 3 and out…..you bashed the previous staff are playing tampa 2 but now you pretend that’s its effective…..C’MON MAN!!!!…GTFOH!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 9:52 am
@Bonzai … “All we lack is a pass rush and a good running game. Gain some perspective.” Love your optimism Bonzai. Wish I shared it, but I don’t. Pass rush = DLine for the most part, and we’ve got some rebuilding to do there. As in ‘2 DTs & 2 DEs as a minimum’ (that assumes keeping GMC & McDonald, both of whom are aging, and keeping Gholston & Russell & hoping that Spence gets ‘fixed’ this time). Running game = RBs + OLine for the most part, and we’ve got some rebuilding to do there also. As in ‘2 OLinemen + 1 RB as a minimum (that assumes keeping D. Smith, Marpet plus 1 other on the OLine … take your pick who).
There’s 7 starters/key rotational players right there. Haven’t even talked about needing 2 CBs & 1 Safety as a minimum, taking us up to 10 key additions. Should we talk adding ‘depth’ or is 10 enough for now? DestinJohnny hit the nail on the head: “We are 3 good drafts away from being a playoff team.” Maybe 2 yrs if we get lucky, but 3 yrs is more likely.
What the Bucs have to decide first though is what we want our identity is be: an offensive juggernaut or a defensive powerhouse. As you can probably tell from the handle, I favor defense. But in any event, we can’t stay in this ‘no man’s land’ we find ourselves in right now. We need an identity … and the players to make that happen.
November 21st, 2017 at 9:52 am
813bucboi
Lovie set himself up to be fired
He actually fired himself
He’s a defensive Head Coach
But he goes 2 drafts, drafting offensive players
He should have drafted Aaron Donald and Stephon Tuitt in 2014
He know that you build a defensive front first
It didn’t what Jason Licht thought
Lovie had the power
He just didn’t use it right
November 21st, 2017 at 9:53 am
It didn’t matter what Jason Licht thought
November 21st, 2017 at 10:03 am
When it is 3rd and say 8 why is everyone of our DB’s 10 yards off of their WR? After the ball is snapped the DB’s take two or three steps backwards, so now the WR’s are automatically open for a first down or more. Can we have our DB’s up in the WR’s face at the snap, this should allow us to change the WR angles and limit the quick accurate passes that we never ever stop. Yes they will get beat occasionally with this, but that is happening now on nearly every play. I do not understand why we play off every single time. Why can’t we play man, are our corners that good that they can make up the distance they give the WR? In my view we can not keep doing this.
November 21st, 2017 at 10:40 am
Ah, the pass-rush! There’s no question that it will be our undoing, AGAIN! You can hide inexperienced DBs with a good pass-rush. Without it?
November 21st, 2017 at 10:41 am
Lakeland
lovie knew the offense is what got him fired in chi town so he came here wanting to fix the offense first….and he did….mike evans, sims, pamphile, Winston, marpet, d.smith…..
we wasn’t given time to fix the defense…..he was fired because of his lousy defense….or because they wanted dirk to continue developing Winston….or because he didn’t want to fire his people….or because we lost the last 4 games….which ever you want to believe….
now we have a coach that is suppose to be an offensive guru that hired his buddy to who is suppose to be a defensive guru, but some how both sides of the ball are underachieving….
offense cant score and the defense can only stop weak offenses….lovie got canned for an 4 game improvement…..dirk should be held to the same standards with we don’t win 10 games….no reason why we shouldn’t be in the playoffs this year with the additions we made to this team…..
As Koetter likes to say, “Our guys are our guys.” …..these are his hand picked players and hand pick staff….NO EXCUSES!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 11:06 am
Why don’t we rush all 11?……They will either score or we will get a sack….sounds like better odds to me.
Or…..we absolutely crush the QB take the 15 yards instead of the 30 yard pass.
November 21st, 2017 at 11:09 am
813bucboi
This is what Lovie said after he was fired
“I definitely think there should be more patience. It takes time,” Smith said. “If you make a change, there’s something that’s wrong, and you can’t just flip a switch. Things don’t happen overnight. You have to have a plan going in and stick with that plan. When I took the Tampa Bay Buccaneers job, I thought there was a plan in place. I thought that plan was being put into action. When you’re the boss, though, you can be impatient. Normally the franchises that do take their time and give you a chance maintain that level of success.”
But he know the Glazers don’t have a plan
They don’t have a clue or a plan
He should have cover his own butt
Build his defense and let the offense fall on the OC
Then the OC would have taken the fall
Like Mike McCoy in Denver
November 21st, 2017 at 11:20 am
Lovie builds the offense through the draft
The offense is clicking, setting records
Lovie has neglected the defense for the offense
The defense stinks while the offense clicks
The Defensive Minded Head Coach is fired
The OC is promoted to HC
This is how things works in the NFL
November 21st, 2017 at 11:36 am
Maybe someone in the media could ask why we are playing soft zone on every single 3rd and long? Wouldn’t that be a great question to hear. Oh well, maybe we can get another Doug Martin article instead…
November 21st, 2017 at 12:00 pm
Watched Matty Ice last night against Seattle. Our Bucs will not..WILL NOT..beat the Falcons this coming Sunday guys. Unless..the great football God in the sky performs a post Thanksgiving day miracle!! There defense is starting to come on and they do..have a pass rush. Seattle scores a lot because they got a scrambling running QB. We..do not. Just..sayin. So don’t get yer hopes up to high.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:09 pm
Matty Bum wasn’t that spectacular last night. The Falcons defense bailed them out with the turnovers. I don’t believe Matty Bum had 200 yards of offense.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:29 pm
3 drafts away???
This team is talented enough right now to play winning football. We’ve all seen the Offense shine at moments. We’ve all seen the Defense play solid for multiple series in a row at least a few times this year.
The problem with this 2017 team currently is CONSISTENCY.
Defense looked good against the Patriots, but Offense couldn’t get in the Red zone and the Kicker leaves 9 or 12 points on the field.
Offense looked stellar vs Buffalo and Defense shat the bed in horrifying fashion.
2 games we easily woulda shoulda coulda won – would have put us at 6-4 minimum and fully in contention at this moment.
The season went south early because each unit of this team (Offense, Defense and ST) had major problems during at least 2 games.
It was and is “fixable” – we just dug ourselves too deep a hole to start the 2017 season to climb out of. It happens to a lot of decent to good teams every year in the NFL.
We have the players to compete right now as long as star players are healthy (Winston, Evans, DJax, McCoy, LVD, Kwon, Grimes). Lose any 2 or 3 of those players at one time and its a different story as we’ve also seen this year. Not an excuse – all teams deal with injuries to important players – but having Grimes, LVD and Kwon all out at the same time earlier this year certainly didn’t help the Defenses chances of being successful.
We need one stellar DE. One dynamic RB. And one excellent CB to replace Grimes. Find upgrades at a couple spots along the Oline – and – Abracadabra – you have a VERY good football team capable of winning a bunch of games in 2018.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:47 pm
LakeLand Says:
November 21st, 2017 at 11:20 am
The defense stinks while the offense clicks
The Defensive Minded Head Coach is fired
The OC is promoted to HC
This is how things works in the NFL
OK…so the current HC is offensive minded and his offense stinks….and so does the defense….so its time to cann them too right?…..GO BUCS!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 12:48 pm
No running game, no pass rush.
And everyone NOT named Jason Licht seems to have known that for 2 years.
“Hope and pray” isn’t a very effective team building strategy.
November 21st, 2017 at 12:50 pm
Lakeland
sounds like lovie had a plan and the glazers or licht or a combination of both felt the need to scrap the plan for whatever reason….last year this team peaked uder dirk….this year we’ve regressed…big time….GO BUCS!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 1:05 pm
813bucboi
They had a plan and they carried out the plan
Fire Lovie Smith, promote Dirk Koetter
That was their plan all along
November 21st, 2017 at 1:33 pm
LakeLand Says:
November 21st, 2017 at 1:05 pm
813bucboi
They had a plan and they carried out the plan
Fire Lovie Smith, promote Dirk Koetter
That was their plan all along
and hows that working out for us?…..lousy!!!!….we’re staring down the barrel of 4-12/5-11….some plan huh…..GO BUCS!!!!
November 21st, 2017 at 3:21 pm
Someone mentioned it above. Why are our DBs lined up so far away from the WRs on 3rd and long? Anyone?
I thought we played better in press or man but, as DB55 says, “but WTF do I know!”