What Might Have Been

October 31st, 2016
Worse than Stewart McClown, per Lovie.

Worse than Stewart McClown, per Lovie.

Since Joe isn’t beneath reaching for Halloween puns, so how about we look at potential ghosts of Halloween past?

Yesterday, we all may have witnessed what could have been in Tampa Bay.

And before Joe gets rolling, knowing how Internet Guy just loves to pounce on folks, Joe is 1,000 percent behind America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, wide receiver Mike Evans and left tackle Donovan Smith. In the meantime, you may take your angst against these players to someone who may care, like the PFF tribe for example.

When former Bucs coach Lovie Smith — who more and more after what Joe witnessed with own eyes, and hears the behind-the-scenes stories about his two-year reign of terror over the franchise, and sees what he is doing in Champaign, the title “incompetent” seems more and more apt — took over football operations of the Bucs, he almost immediately made up his mind on personnel decisions before he stepped into the door at One Buc Palace.

Lovie’s ego either couldn’t handle Darrelle Revis or lhe lacked common sense to coach him was Exhibit-A.

His decision to run off Donald Penn was another idiotic move. A third was to anoint a journeyman neverbeen as the leader of the franchise, one Stewart McClown, a guy Lovie himself cut in Chicago for Jason Campbell for crying out loud!

A few months later came the 2014 draft. Even patients at St. Luke’s Cataract & Laser Institute could see the Bucs needed a quarterback not named “Stewart McClown.” With a high draft slot, it seemed surely the Bucs could land a signal-caller in the first two rounds as the draft was top-heavy with quarterbacks.

A guy who had all the intangibles in the world, Derek Carr, could have been had, but the Bucs passed on him twice! Yes, Carr was picked by the Raiders two spots ahead of the Bucs in the second round. Like the Bucs couldn’t have traded up three spots to get him? C’mon.

Yesterday, with so much time to pass (in part from Penn’s blocking), Carr could have received a massage from a Bucs cheerleader before being touched by a Bucs defender. Carr napalmed the Bucs for 513 yards, nearly breaking a 65-year old NFL record!

Yup. Two guys Lovie had no use for handed the Bucs a historically shameful loss. But never fear, Lovie made sure he signed off on the Bucs drafting a known headcase of a huge bowel movement in the second round instead of ordering his newly-hired general manager to go get Carr, and Lovie pushed for drafting a running back in the third round because he reminded him of Matt Forte, never mind a guy like Devonta Freeman was available. Thanks Lovie.

What might have been. Sometimes, Joe wonders if former offensive coordinator Jeff Tedford threw in the towel on Lovie because Lovie wouldn’t go get Carr, who Tedford is very close to.

Hey, Joe is convinced all will work out in the long run. Joe is a big believer in Jameis and the offensive line is full of budding young talent. Evans is the real deal, no question. But yesterday was a glaring example of Lovie’s inept player evaluations, for all Bucs fans to see.

Now let’s go Jameis. Do the same to the Dixie Chicks Thursday as Carr did to the Bucs, will ya?’

79 Responses to “What Might Have Been”

  1. BucFan20 Says:

    We seem to be forgetting LIAR Lovie stated Glennon was the QB of the future. But then we found out Licht has ALWAYS wanted Jameis from the begining. So did Lovie or Licht sweet talk the Glazers into the deal. Exactly who was it????

  2. Not there yet Says:

    The bucs are mentally weak and that game just must have begun a long streak of losing, more excuses and cam newton like pouting. There’s no killer instinct at home. No one cares what could have been except losers. All that matters is what is which is we are below average in talent and Derek Carr wouldn’t overcome that either because we are not a quarterback away from the playoffs. We’re 45-50 guys away from the playoffs

  3. Joehelldeloxley Says:

    I always thought that Derek Carr was a huge deal.

    I saw him play two years ago in Wembley and even if the Raiders were a mess at the time he never gave up and try to bring back the team.

    I agree with you, we can have a much better team but still, yesterday attitude was and is unacceptable.

    Vucs Fans accept failure, they are use too, but they can’t and they must’nt accept a team that is not even trying !

  4. Tampa Tony Says:

    So the Bucs really didn’t pass on Carr twice…

    Kind of hard to take the Joes serious on the draft when they wanted Johnny drunk over Carr

  5. pelbuc Says:

    Thanks JBF for illustrating how Lovie & Licht set Bucs back at least 5 years. I wish I could share in your continued optimism of JW but yesterday was a painful reminder he’s terribly inaccurate and not clutch. JW is way overrated and you’ll soon see that Wentz and Prescott are already ahead of him and Carr is reaching elite status soon. What good will it do getting him some weapons if he will overthrow them. Once the front office realizes his shortcomings, they better load up on defense and get a real DC! Unfortunately, the Glazers made the same mistake TWICE, they panicked and hired Raheem when the rumor was he was going to Denver and hired Koetter when they feared he would be hired as well thus completing the great coaching trifecta.

  6. D-Rome Says:

    If Licht hits on a player in the draft, he’s a genius. If Licht misses on a player, it’s Lovie’s fault. If Lovie Smith ordered Jason Licht to pass on Carr and signed off on ASJ then he signed off on Jason Licht drafting Mike Evans, Kwon, Jameis, D. Smith, Kevin Pamphile, and Ali Marpet. Imagine the vitriol toward Lovie if the organization listened to you, the Commish, and most local people around here about one Jonathan Paul Manziel. Two years ago people were saying Derek Carr was a huge reach in the first round.

    As for Penn and the offensive line this has been hammered ad nauseum. That line was overpaid and it under performed.

    How’s the J.R. Sleazy signing working out?

    Bryan Anger is good I guess.

  7. Chris Says:

    Well, Licht still makes the dip spit moves even without Lovie. How do you look at this roster and think we were a place kicker away? Other than Mike Evans, when have taken a wr higher than the fourth round? Hargreaves beaten like a red headed step child. Glad all we do is draft the state of Florida.

  8. ElioT Says:

    Damn these Meltdown Monday’s blow…

    I would like to be a fly on the wall in Dirk’s meeting with Jay Lichtmyballs and hear what they really think the problems are with this team and how far off they are from being able to fix them.

  9. passthebuc Says:

    What may put Carr in the elite league over time is the quick release. that coupled with timing and accuracy should keep him in the limelight for years.
    I am still of the belief that Winston will be just a slightly better than average QB

  10. Chris Says:

    News for all the Floruda college lovers( and I’m one of them). The state of Florida is becoming more irrelevant college football wise each year. The world no longer revolves around us.

  11. Chris Says:

    Pull the Jimmy Johnso approach, draft winners from winning schools.

  12. NutterBuccer Says:

    Winston will be just fine, yea he’s been rattled and innacurate at times but come on, we have Mike Evans and that’s it, last year we had Evans and Doug Martin, along with all of this we have zero speed on offense as well. Let’s get some talent around Winston. Why not trade for Torrey smith, we have tons of cap for next year and not many players worth resigning except will gholdson and maybe hey Jude. If this team goes 8-8 then te season is a success. We are still a young team and honestly right in the playoff hunt. Let’s not give up on them yet as much as many of us want to.

  13. Tampa Tony Says:

    Last year Licht was a draft genius this year he sucks. It’s why you don’t grade a draft until after 3 years

  14. Tampa Tony Says:

    Nutterbuccer and other Winston defenders what has he done in 24 games to make you think “he will be fine”?? Just curious where this line of thinking comes from

  15. Dewey Selmon Says:

    Before the Lovie hire I wanted Zimmer/Carr. What could have been?????

  16. Tampa Tony Says:

    @Dewey most knowledgeable Buc fans did

  17. DB55 Says:


    Statistically at this point in his career and at his age he’s the best qb in buc history. Last week I read that he’s on pace to throw for more yards than drew Bree’s in his first 3 years.

  18. 813bucboi Says:

    @joe says,” But yesterday was a glaring example of Lovie’s inept player evaluations, for all Bucs fans to see”….

    nice try but you cant blame lovie for this one…as much as people want too for some strange reason….all of our loses and lack of talent are tied to licht dirk and smitty….no way you can spin this one….why don’t we blame gruden for blowing up a dynasty team….

    still doesn’t explain why this staff hasn’t gotten better production from this team that has more talent than lovie ever had….I can see it now….in 2020 the joes and people like @realist will still be blaming lovie….GO BUCS!!!!

  19. buccfan305 Says:

    I’ve been blowing off steam all morning here at JBF but I guess it could always be worse. We could be the Browns. At least there is still hope.

  20. DB55 Says:


    Will you be writing an article on Jude Bareem – blah blah blah?

    He lost the game for us! All this BS about Jameis and Koetter yet Jameis gave us the lead with only 3 mins left in the 4th.

    The def allowed Carr to drive 75yards in less than 2 mins and even when they miraculously stopped them on 4th down Jude fck it all up. Then he gave up the booty on 4th down AGAIN in OT.

    Come on bro, call a spade a spade and hold Jude accountable. He shouldn’t even be on the field.

  21. Tampa Tony Says:

    @DB55- ha ha ha ha ha ha it’s not like the Bucs have a history of good qbs. So he’s the best of the worst? Not a good example

  22. Patrick in VA Says:

    How has nobody acknowledged that the “Internet Guy” strip is every commenter on JBF?

  23. Joe Says:

    How has nobody acknowledged that the “Internet Guy” strip is every commenter on JBF?


  24. Tampa Tony Says:

    @db55- Brees also only played 1 full season in his first 3 seasons and 1 game his rookie year. So that comparison is awful

  25. DB55 Says:


    You a gator fan or something? Let me guess you also think GMC is the best DT in the league too? Are you a “real buc” fan since 1976? Sounds like you are..

  26. buccfan305 Says:

    1st place was sooooo freaking close. We need to start winning these damn meaningful games.

    Let’s Go Bucs.

    We need to make an example off of Atlanta

  27. Buc1987 Says:

    DB55 Says:
    October 31st, 2016 at 3:23 pm


    Will you be writing an article on Jude Bareem – blah blah blah?

    He lost the game for us! All this BS about Jameis and Koetter yet Jameis gave us the lead with only 3 mins left in the 4th.”

    DB55…this is the lost gem in the entire game. The game was virtually over when the Bucs would have gotten the ball back with about 1:45 or so to play. One first down and they could run the clock to nil and game over.

    Seems most on this site keep forgetting that this even transpired. Which is kind of why I’ve kept my visits to the comment section at a minimum.

    I agree Winston looked like garbage? Will it continue? No I certainly don’t think so. If it does, then I myself with turn on him. If Buc1987 turns on Winston then there’s a problem in Jameisville.

    Posters would proclaimed he was the real deal 6 weeks ago have already turned on Jameis. To them I say, don’t turn back then. When he gets rolling you just pipe down and continue your views.

  28. Buc1987 Says:


  29. Tampa Tony Says:

    DB55- no I’m not a Gator fan (I think it’s down right moronic to root for a college team where you didn’t go to school) I like how you didn’t acknowledge anything I said and went with ASSUming it goes down to college loyalties. My only loyalty is to the Bucs not one player. BTW McCoy isn’t my favorite either.

    If you don’t have a reply just bow out of the conversation no need to try throw any daggers at me. How hard is it to admit outside 2 games Winston has sucked?

  30. DB55 Says:


    Idk 87 I don’t see it. Winston keeps giving us 4th qrt leads and we just give them right up. This been going on since last year man.

    If I was on def I’d flip the fck out. I think the legends of football league can hold a lead for more than 3 mins. Gimme a break.

    Dudes dropping passes in key situations, refs choking on the whistle when we need the call most. No supporting cast, it’s all bs but to put this on Jameis is stupid and short sided.

  31. Chris Says:

    I think Jameis is even questioning how good or average Jameis might be

  32. Tony Says:

    No, joe.
    You don’t get to write drivel like this that (once again) adds fuel to the negative attitude of the worst fan base in the entire NFL and then say you are 100% behind the current QB.

    Jameis brought the Bucs back from down 17-10 to take a lead late in the 4th quarter. Period. Talk about the 10th straight season with zero pass rush. That’s how a QB completes 40 passes for over 500 yards and literally has 4 seconds to throw on a 4th down play in overtime. Put Jameis in the black and white uniform with the talent Carr has around him and the results would have been the same.

    Waah. Waah. Regret. Regret. boo hoo. Sniffle. sniffle. (that’s all I’m reading today)

  33. DB55 Says:


    Winston and ME are the best buc players at their position in the history of the Bucs, period. They had the game win and the defense fcked it up. If you can’t see that then idk what to told ya.

  34. DallasBuc Says:

    I love how JBF business partner and Bucs GM Jason Licht is once again wholly absolved of any poor decision making!
    Think I’ll kick back and have an unholy JBF Jason Licht Kool Ale

  35. Chris Says:

    DB, who have we had at qb in our history. When Brad Johnson for two years is your standard bearer, that’s sad. I don’t see the drive in Jameis he once had to be greater. I think he’s resigned to the mediocrity here. And his accuracy has not gotten better . You can blame the receivers all you want, but deeply, you all know you’re starting to question him, he’ll, he’s even questioning himself.

  36. Chris Says:

    But no Dallas, I’m not absolving anyone from this turd fest, Licht, Koetter, GMC, every player and team personnel is to blame.

  37. c-spann Says:

    Believe in JW for the record. He missed some throws yesterday and the playcalls were not helping either. I was more concerned that the def would give the game up. I blame that on the def coordinator. I watched the dallas and philly game last night and I know there is more talent on the bucs def than dallas, the difference is that the coordinator put the def in better position. The players also need to play with more pride.

  38. DB55 Says:

    Lol you people crack me up.

    You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want Jameis, you need Jameis.

    We use words like heart, desire, will to win. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent winning football games. You use them as a punchline on JBF.

    I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very wins that Jameis provides, and then questions the manner in which He provides it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a football and some pads. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

  39. Pit Says:

    How did they have the game win?

    Last time I checked the game finishes when time is up till then they have to be on the field and make plays.

    They needed what 20yards to get in FG range? Did they get it? Nope

    So yeah the fault is on both sides

  40. salish_seamonster Says:

    Bucs should’ve drafted Carr, bypassed Winston. Jameis is not the franchise. I see no reason to believe his accuracy problems and poor decision making will ever improve. I hope I’m wrong. I was not in favor of drafting him, but I’ve gotten on board and I love some of his big plays and have been patient, thinking his mental approach and hard work would remedy the shortcomings of his game, but I’ve lost the faith. It’s just discouraging to see Mariota outperform him… and rookies Prescott and Wentz being just as reliable for their teams.

  41. thegregwitul Says:

    Derek Carr has been fantastic, but let us not forget that he is not being hit/sacked all that much. Sure, the Bucs could have kept Penn but no one knows what Carr would have been in Tampa if he was picked and wasn’t getting protected the way he has been in Oakland.

    As for Jameis, he definitely has some issues, but if you give up on him now at his age and with less than two years under his belt, you are an idiot. I’m sorry but not every QB becomes a perfect player overnight. The lack of patience displayed by some fans is sickening.

    Also, re: Jameis, I know he’ll always be compared to Mariota, but let’s remember that while Mariota doesn’t have a Mike Evans, he has a better RB and an incredible offensive line. That isn’t taking anything away from him, as he’s looked great the last few weeks, but football is a team sport, it’s not as easy as swapping Jameis out with Mariota or Carr or whatever.

    But Jameis has plenty to work on for sure, make no mistake, and I hope he can get it going and the Bucs can actually win at home at some point in the near future, say this Thursday.

  42. Chris Says:

    Lol and quoting A Few Good Men’s not going to help . Maybe Mccoys culture has gotten to him, I don’t know, but I want players to be as pissed off as yesterday’s game as we all are, and I just don’t hear it from them. Like someone said, they’re cashing their check and getting in the chamber and getting their massages.

  43. DB55 Says:

    You people need to learn the game before making comments, seriously do yourselves and us a favor.

  44. Chris Says:

    Really , I love the , learn the game, ok who in here is a NFL coach, GM, player? It’s ok for you to question what you question, but attack a Seminole, man that’s blasphemy ! I’m a Buc fan, commenting on a Buc site . You want to blindly follow your college go on JoeNole fan. But yeesh, be objective, if he was from Iowa, you would be roasting his ass for overthrowing two or three bombs. Question, when’s the last time he’s thrown a pass 30 or more yards in the air and completed it? He’s the worst in the league and deep throws.

  45. Tampa Tony Says:

    DB55- Although Jameis shoulders a lot of the blame the passive d takes the remainder of the blame

  46. DB55 Says:


    Have to check the tape but hump had a 42 yard reception yesterday.

  47. Chris Says:

    Yes GMC and the defense , Hey Jude, we are mediocre all over. Of course we will probably win against Atlanta, get our hopes up, than lose at home again yo a crappy Bears team, piss us all off, eventually will be 6-10, have an average draft pick.

  48. BucsFan90 Says:

    Looks like Johnathan Banks is gone per his instagram

  49. salish_seamonster Says:

    Only 2 QBs with more picks… Case Keenum and Ryan Fitz… Nice company Jameis.


  50. DB55 Says:


    Real simple if it’s 4th down and the offense throws an incomplete pass then the ball gets turned over to the def. (football 101).

    If we’re winning with 1min left on the clock then that’s a win.

    That’s what happened yesterday bottom line folks.

  51. 321BucFan Says:

    Game was lost on 4th down defensive holding penalty (away from ball) at the end of regulation.

  52. DB55 Says:

    You guys honestly deserve to be bottom dwellers. You are the real busts.

  53. ptwalk Says:

    So we lose to the Raiders and Joe finds a way to take out his frustration on Lovie. This is hilarious. Before the season started there were some that said they wouldn’t trade Jameis for anybody in the league. Now you’re upset we didn’t draft Car.

  54. Pit Says:

    Of course we do because we don’t agree with DB55

  55. DB55 Says:

    Especially you Pit.

  56. Chris Says:

    Yeah, starting to see an end to the Americas qb logo

  57. grafikdetail Says:

    still trying to figure out how lovie is getting blamed for GM decisions LOL

  58. Joe Says:

    How has nobody acknowledged that the “Internet Guy” strip is every commenter on JBF?

    Unaware of who was calling the shots when Lovie was here it seems?

    Only folks who don’t believe Lovie had final say on every and all football personnel decisions when he was here are the uninformed. Was written in his contract otherwise he would not have taken the job.

  59. D-Rome Says:

    Johnthan Banks gone. I guess Dirk couldn’t coach the Lovie out of him. :/

  60. AtlBucFanDan Says:

    Moral Victory Monday

    I don’t know why there is so much lamenting the loss of this game. Sure the game was a completely demoralizing loss, but I prefer to look on the positive side of things. Therefore, on this (De)moral(izing) Victory Monday, I would like to point out the following:

    1) Our punter is having a great year
    2) As terrible as the Bucs have played this year, we have 3 wins

    Well that about sums it up.

  61. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    I disagree about Donald Penn.

    While he was here, he struggled constantly with his weight. Did you see him during the game? He’s in better shape than he ever was in Tampa.

    Why didn’t he do that here? He didn’t want to bad enough.

  62. Mike Evans GOAT Says:

    Lol, we just WAIVED banks. Former 2nd round pick and 7 int in his rookie or 2nd season. This team can’t get out of their own way

  63. Chris Says:

    On a team that still employs Chris Conte and just gave a Van Brocklin to Derek Carr. SMH, now he’ll catch on with the Broncos and lead the NFL in picks.

  64. Defense Rules Says:

    Jameis has had a number of bad games since taking the QB helm, but he’s also had some exceptionally good games, especially for a 22 yr old with only 2-years of college experience. Even though he apparently has a high football IQ, he’s still learning. Through 7 games this year, Jameis is almost exactly on-track to replicate last year’s numbers. In 2015 he completed 58.3% of his passes for 4,042 yds, threw 22 TDs with 15 INTs & was sacked 27 times. If Jameis continues the performing like he has for the 1st 7 games for the remaining 9 games in the 2016 season, he’ll have completed 58.7% of his passes for 4,059 yds and 32 TDs with 20 INTs & will have been sacked 36 times. Completion percentage and yardage would be almost exactly the same, but his TDs, INTs and sacks would be up somewhat.

    His main problem at this point seems to be that he’s inconsistent … sometimes great, sometimes ‘close-your-eyes-bad’. But considering what he’s had to work with this year, I’d say that overall he’s holding his own. Bucs just need to put some better talent around him. And as much as anything, Bucs OLine needs to do an even better job of protecting him. And oh ya, Dirk Koetter & Todd Monken could help by doing a better job of play-design and play-calling.

  65. Maze Says:

    Lovie Lovie Lovie SUCKED

  66. Big HogHaynes Says:


  67. Big HogHaynes Says:


  68. DB55 Says:

    @Tony and all you other skeptics

    According to the Bucs twitter feed:

    Jameis Winston’s 14 TD passes are the tied for the most through 7 games in #Bucs history

  69. LakeLandBuc Says:

    Jason Licht, Dirk Koetter and Mike Smith are PATHETIC. They are an disgrace to the Bay Area.

  70. Tampa Tony Says:

    @DB55- when the Bucs History of qbs consist of Johnson, Testeverde, Freeman and McCown’s it’s not impressive. Your making yourself sound bad by relying on stats to pump up an inaccurate qb

  71. DB55 Says:

    Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Doug Williams but by all means continue…

    Has taken the most hits in the league, has no weapons and is still the best this town has ever seen but plz continue….

  72. DB55 Says:


    I know you don’t like facts but here are some more. Here’s a few QBs that had an even lower completion percentage yesterday than your boy Winston:

    Fitzpatrick – Win
    Tyrod Taylor
    Andrew Luck
    Cam Newton – Win
    Phillip Rivers
    Siemien (Denver) – Win
    Dak Prescott. – Win

    Guess what those 4 teams have in common? That’s right, a have way decent Defense. You know, that don’t give up 600 yards in offense. You’re a joke brother, hating on Winston like that when the defense is where we truly need to improve. Plz see yourself out son.

  73. DallasBuc Says:

    Bonzai back to making sht up out of thin air now with the weight of former Buc and current Buc mauler.

  74. DallasBuc Says:

    Bonzai fancies himself hugely intelligent and articulate while he makes sht up left and right in an embarrassing effort to be the all knowing bag of dcks in the room with his specialized place kicker eye tracking expertise that he rudely expects you to trust.

  75. LargoBuc Says:

    I agree that Jameis needs to play better. His mechanics are bad. But really, we’re already labeling him a bust? GTFO.
    And if we are going to blame Lovie for not trading up for Carr…you know that “Jason Licht grand slam”, well It’s the Lovie Smith grand slam apparently.

  76. DallasBuc Says:

    Largo- well said

  77. Koetter Absolves Corners - JoeBucsFan.com - Tampa Bay Bucs Blog, Buccaneers News Says:

    […] amnesia due to the traumatic blunt force of the galling loss, Raiders quarterback Derek Carr, who wasn’t good enough for Lovie Smith, napalmed the defense for 513 yards, one of the greatest passing games in NFL […]

  78. Kevin Says:

    I am.sadly begginning to think I was right about Mariotta

  79. Tampa Tony Says:

    @DB55- your desperate and sad attempts to pump up stats is unintentionally hilarious. Give me wins, clutch throws and game winning drives over stats. Stats are for fantasy football losers. If you can’t see Winston has been awful outside of 2 games you might be the one who needs to learn the game a bit better.

    Of those QBs listed non were playing the NFL’s worst defense like Jameis was…

    What good would more weapons do when Jameis would just over throw them? I’m not giving up on him by any means but absolving him of any bad play is down right idiotic