“We Have A Starting Quarterback”

May 20th, 2013

Partially ignited by a buried quote in a National Football Post story over the weekend, the chatter of a quarterback controversy between Bucs incumbent yet struggling starter Josh Freeman, drafted largely on the advice of a since fired coach, and the Bucs third round draft pick Mike Glennon, is a non-story, Bucs coach Greg Schiano said in a rather adamant tone this afternoon at One Buc Palace.

Following the first practice of OTAs, Schiano met with the local pen and mic club and reiterated that there is no quarterback controversy in Tampa Bay.

“We have a starting quarterback and it is Josh Freeman,” Schiano said in no uncertain terms.

Schiano, in rare, animated form, talked about how the NFL is “the most competitive league” in sports and that he craves competition to bring out the best in all players. “There is some guy out there that wants my job,” Schiano explained.

But that desire for competition does not mean the starting quarterback position is open, Schiano noted. Schiano explained, in theory, how a backup quarterback could win a starting job but slammed the door shut on Glennon being the Week 1 starter in New Jersey when the Bucs visit the Jets, barring injury of course.

“I guess I am too honest with them,” Schiano said of answering direct questions with national reporters.

Schiano also explained that the national perception that either Freeman isn’t his guy or that he doesn’t get along with Freeman is hogwash.

“We have a good relationship.”

88 Responses to ““We Have A Starting Quarterback””

  1. Raphael Says:

    At 25 yrs old josh is a future star in this league….book it ,and this is his year to show the bandwagon fans and nay Sayers .

  2. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    drafted largely on the advice of a since fired coach

    You can’t say that Joe. There is no way someone else was allowed to have input on a rookie GMs first draft. There is simply no way a coach that spent a year with Freeman could have had any impact on that decision. (sarcasm)

    Barring catastrophe, Freeman is your starting quarterback for 2013. To root for someone else to start is to hope we miss the playoffs. While Freeman has not hit the consistency level required to be considered “elite”, he is the only quarterback that can lead the Bucs to the post season in 2013.

  3. stevek Says:

    Raphael,

    Will Josh Freeman lead my Bucs to the 2013 post season?

    That is all that matters, is your boy Josh a winner or a loser?

  4. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    steveK, I say winner. Opinion-based.

  5. Macabee Says:

    I don’t know what to think now or who to believe! Should I believe Schiano’s words to NFP or should I believe his words at the presser? Because they were different! Very different!

  6. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    Macabee, I think a coach has to have his starters set, but cannot discount the possibility that a new backup can achieve the impossible. If Glennon were to turn out to be a superstar in the making (doughtful), of course Schiano cannot say he will not start.

    But unless that happens, Josh is the guy.

    This is really no surprise to those that saw Glennon for exactly what he is meant to be…a replacement for Dan-O.

  7. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    The national media types know which questions to ask to generate news and controversy. I would like to know what exactly Schiano was asked in order for me to form an opinion of how Schiano feels about Freeman. Big time media have no problem taking words out of context and making it seem a certain way.

  8. Meh Says:

    Duh. That’s my response to all this. There is no quarterback controversy right now. None. Short of injury, Freeman will start. If a third round rookie takes his job, it will only be because we are in big, big trouble.

  9. lightningbuc Says:

    “drafted largely on the advice of a since fired coach”

    Yeah, the alleged “rock star” gets a pass on Freeman, but it was his, and only his, keen football eye which led to the drafting of Doug Martin and Lavonte David. Schiano had nothing to do with it. (sarcasm)

  10. mpmalloy Says:

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

  11. Joe Says:

    West coast:

    You can’t say that Joe.

    Why not? Raheem Morris pushed hard for Freeman and he has since been fired. This is not debatable.

  12. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Oh no, you make an excellent point lightningbuc! I am sure a rookie head coach that never saw any of those players in college had a TREMENDOUS influence on the drafting of Barron, David, and Martin. And only WEEKS after he was hired! Man, Schiano is certainly something special. Drafting those guys while Dom went to grab Starbucks for everybody. I’m sure Schiano likes his coffee black….

  13. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    LOL, thank you Joe. Thank you so much right now.

  14. Macabee Says:

    BuccaneerBonzai,

    You’re batting a 1000 today! Again, You’re right! that would be perfectly fine if Schiano had said that. Does anybody believe that If Schiano had expressed himself to NFP, the way he expressed himself at the presser, there would be a national discussion of this today.

    If this is a controversy, Schiano started it. To Joe’s credit, he is one of the few journalist that didn’t buy into this controversy. But read Cook, Cummings, Kaufman this weekend, they all bought into it. And the national media is having a field day with it! Whose fault is that?

  15. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    You didn’t read my entire first post Joe.

    The first paragraph is sarcasm. I have been mocked on here for saying that the Freeman pick was heavily influenced by Raheem. People just say I am making excuses for Dom but facts are facts. Raheem spent a year at K-state with Freeman and lobbied HARD for his selection in 2009.

  16. lightningbuc Says:

    LeftCoast,

    I stand corrected – I’m sure Schiano had never heard of any of those guys. So what you’re saying is as rookie head coaches, Raheem had total control of the draft over Dominik and Schiano had none. Interesting, seeing as how Raheem had never been a head coach at any level. I love the points you use to prop the “lotion boy” Dominik up. Bad picks aren’t his doing, but the good ones are! It wouldn’t be so damn funny to hear you guys if Dom had anywhere near a decent record as a GM.

  17. Andrew 1 Says:

    I said it before and Ill say it again, there is no way Glennon see the field for any other reason than an injury to Freeman. He is going to be a clip board weenie for the entire season.

    and yes that means even if Freeman has 2-3 really bad games he is still going to start.

    now if Freeman has 5-6 really bad games and tanks the season, then yea we probably will see Glennon.

  18. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Wrong again lightningbutt!

    I said the FREEMAN selection was heavily influenced by a coach that spent a year in college with him. (Just the Freeman selection). Not to mention when they selected Freeman, all Dom and Raheem talked about afterwards was how Raheem knew Freeman was “the guy” because of the year he spent at K-state.

    The difference between Raheem having a large influence on the Freeman selection and Schiano having none on the 2012 draft is huge. First off, Dom was in his first year as GM in 2009. I don’t know about you but I imagine on my first year on the job I will be asking EVERYBODY for input. Especially a coach that spent a year with the quarterback I am considering.

    In 2012, Dom had enough experience to make decisions on his own with the information provided to him by his scouts.

    More proof Schiano didn’t have a hand in the 2012 draft? How about the fact that it came STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH! Schiano said he just watched the whole thing happen and was simply, “along for the ride”. How is it even debatable when it comes right from is own mouth?

    I really don’t understand why you try to debate FACTS. Raheem said he lobbied for Freeman. Schiano said he spectated the 2012 draft. What more do you need?

  19. stevek Says:

    Andrew1,

    Buccaneers have playoff aspirations for 2013, if Freeman falters for 2-3 games, he could be replaced.

    I don’t think Freeman will have the opportunity to start out hot, and be given the leash to have another 5+ game losing streak for the 3rd yera in a row.

    We will start out strong, and finish strong, whether it is Freeman or Glennon taking the snaps.

    Josh needs to put it all together, it is now or never.

  20. stevek Says:

    Left Coast,

    Schiano had his hand in the draft picks, since appointed HC of the Bucs. Don’t be silly into thinking that Dominick magically put it all together since the 2012 draft.

    Schiano and Dominick have mentioned working together, communicating, and deciding on players together.

    Dominick signed us a punter after winning 10 games, does he get credit for that too?

  21. Braheem Says:

    Schiano should have been speaking about The Buccaneers challenges on Defense (THE REAL ISSUE) rather than using the teams 2nd pick(lost 1st rnd to Jets) on a QB.

    That decision was asinine considering what could have been gained using that 3rd rnd pick looking for a Defensive Starter. Only routine Playoff Teams use 3rd rnd picks to create Depth.

    Freeman and Bucs Offense had a Franchise Record Breaking season in 2012. The Schiano regime didn’t respect that achievement nor accomplishing that with 2 Major O-Line injuries, New FA WR, NEW Offense, and a Rookie RB.
    The Buccaneers should have rushed to resign their YOUNG Triggerman and went full bore on drastically upgrading their pass rush and other defensive holes!!! BTW- A Tight End with that 3rd rnd pick would have made more sense.

  22. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Schiano had his hand in the draft picks, since appointed HC of the Bucs. Don’t be silly into thinking that Dominick magically put it all together since the 2012 draft.

    This is just hilarious. I am silly?

    How? How is it physically possible for a coach who, by his own admission, did NOT have a hand in the draft, come in and select players only WEEKS after he was hired? Do you have any idea how long the scouting process is? Do you think it just starts up in January? Teams scout prospects for many months and, in some cases, even years before the draft. How could a head coach that spent the last eleven years in college know anything about the players we drafted? There is no logic attached to argument AT ALL. Your blind hatred of Dom is hilarious.

  23. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Schiano and Dominick have mentioned working together, communicating, and deciding on players together.

    They mentioned that for the 2013 draft. Not 2012.

  24. Braheem Says:

    Freeman has to be distracted by what has transpired! Yeah Flacco faced the same situation, but the Ravens didn’t draft a QB in his contract year.

    So lets say Freeman has a banner year! Then What?? What kinda long term deal could the Bucs offer him after that Revis signing? Will he then be asked to continue and risk injury or career setback under The Franchise Tag?

    Freeman’s best situation is to get a deal done before the Season or request he and the Bucs part ways.

  25. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Dominick signed us a punter after winning 10 games, does he get credit for that too?

    He sure DOES! What a great punter I might add. The Bucs obviously were clearing cap space in Dom’s first three years. They pursued blue chip free agents (Haynesworth, AT THE TIME, was considered one of the best DTs in the game, hindsight is 20/20) but avoided free agency in general. Now these past two seasons we were able to acquire supreme talent because of it. (Vincent Jackson, Carl Nicks, Dashon Goldson)

    Gee, imagine that, Dom may have actually been planning past the current season? A novel concept.

  26. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Braheem

    You forget that Freeman’s current salary is on the books. (Around $8mil I believe Joe said.) So when he is resigned that $8mil from this year is part of that money used to resign him. If he gets paid $16mil next season it is really only adding $8mil towards the cap.

  27. Tyo1540 Says:

    I honestly feel this year Freeman will show that he is worth the investment. This is the second year with the same quarterback coach and same system which will help alot. The Bucs won the Superbowl the year after Baltimore won there first. I really think history can repeat itself. Are D is better and I know that we won’t blow many games this year. Freeman contract year means big year that could actually lead to a Superbowl.

  28. lightningbuc Says:

    West Coast Buc Fan must be Mark Dominik himself! Who else would work so hard to polish a turd?

  29. Bobby Says:

    @Braheem… “That decision was asinine considering what could have been gained using that 3rd rnd pick looking for a Defensive Starter. Only routine Playoff Teams use 3rd rnd picks to create Depth.”

    Of course…that’s why San Francisco took Colin Kaepernick in the second round while they had Alex Smith starting for them. That turned out to be just plain idiotic. They weren’t exactly a ‘routine playoff team’ at the time.

  30. stevek Says:

    West Coast,

    You can bet your assets that Schiano had a hand in the 2012 draft. The man obesses over which style pasta to cook for team meals.

    Also, have you seen his recruiting ability at Rutgers, where he was entrenched for 13 years. You don’t think his player evalations and recruiting hasn’t paid off, and left the Schiano imprint on the 2012 & 2013 draft? Get serious!

    Dominick paid Derrick Ward, I guess that is on Raheem too?

    Schiano has his hands all over this operation, no question about it.

    Dominick has done leaps and bounds better the last 2 years, but it all started once he brought in Schiano.

    Dom is 24-40, so please defend that! Dom also HAD TO SIGN Hayneswroth, due to poor depth at the DT position in 2011, explain that gaffe?

  31. Bobby Says:

    Funny how all the people who know anything about the game think Dom is brilliant. The others….well, let’s just say they may not be the sharpest tools in the shed. Of course these are the same people who said Schiano was a horrible hire, McCoy was a bust, Barron was a stupid pick, should have traded up to get Trent Richardson, forget Revis…get Tavon Austin, blah, blah, blah. Just one stupid rant after another.

    Dom has gotten McCoy, David, Martin, Foster, Williams, VJax, Goldson, Revis, Nicks, Barron, Zuttah, Clayborn, Bowers, Banks, Lorig, and Freeman.
    That’s 16 players who will be starters and I’m sure I left some off. I just don’t see the problem. If you don’t see that we are on the brink of a Super Bowl champion team then you really are a poor judge of talent. Our defense should be unstoppable this year. The offense will be improved with Nicks and Joseph back and I don’t see us losing a lot of games. I’m thinking 11-5.

  32. Couch Fan Says:

    On the brink of a super bowl? We havent even sniffed the playoffs… you must be high as a kite.

  33. lightningbuc Says:

    Bobby,

    Your above post may be one of the most ignorant I’ve seen in a while. When a GM is in his 5th year, I would assume that most of the starters were acquired by that GM via either trade or draft seeing as how the average career in the NFL is 2 years. It doesn’t matter if he acquired 22 starters if the team doesn’t win consistently – which the Bucs haven’t.

    BTW – Zuttah was drafted by Bruce Allen, but I’m sure if Jeremy makes the Pro Bowl, you’ll tell the rest of us it was Dom’s uncanny ability to spot talent that got him here.

  34. arealbucsfan Says:

    12-4!

  35. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    I would guess only about 10% of Dom’s mistakes were his own. The rest have context.

    Sit down, prop your feet up, while I weave the narrative that has been Dominik’s reign. There’s are many caveats and asterisks. His situation is unlike any GM’s in the history of the NFL, hell, and the AFL and USFL. No one has had such a peculiar job assignment, so, you can’t judge this man conventionally.

    It’s a totally unique circumstance that requires much explanation. Much. Explanation. Sure, maybe the Michael Clayton extension is on him, but, can you blame him? Did you see that guy block? Oh wait, was that another one?

  36. Andrew 1 Says:

    Im so sick of hearing that Dom is 24-40, yea like hes the guy taking the field and messing up. is it Doms fault that this place was a country club and no one gave it there best? is it Dom’s fault that the players get injured?

    I mean we can clearly see what Dom saw in McCoy because the guy made a pro bowl.

    with the talent that hes brought in and Schiano things should get better.

  37. Couch Fan Says:

    @Andrew 1

    Just out of curiousity who is to blame for the past 4 or 5 years? You clearly dont want to put any blame on Dom or Freeman for being 24-40… so who is to blame for such a subpar team?

  38. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    And let’s not forget the team was so lacking in talent that Gruden only managed 18 wins in his last two years.

    Most GM’s walk into a much better situation than a 9 win team that won it’s division just the year before that.

    In cases like this, you can’t even really judge the guy for about 5 years.

  39. Couch Fan Says:

    Most GM’s walk into a much better situation than a 9 win team that won it’s division just the year before that.

    ————————————————————-

    …. what? that doesnt sound like such a bad situation to walk into… or maybe im just reading that wrong.

  40. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    West Coast Buc Fan must be Mark Dominik himself! Who else would work so hard to polish a turd?

    You got me. I guess the jig is up. I don’t know how many pro bowlers have to be on a GM’s roster to be considered more than just “a turd”.

    @stevek

    You continue to amaze me. I am literally stunned.

    Dom also HAD TO SIGN Hayneswroth, due to poor depth at the DT position in 2011, explain that gaffe?

    That gaffe? Oh, you mean a first year GM didn’t have an entire roster completely assembled in a year? Oh yeah, your right he (Or I?) must be a complete baffoon to not have a complete roster assembled in his second year. A tell tale sign of ineptness as a GM.

    You can bet your assets that Schiano had a hand in the 2012 draft. The man obesses over which style pasta to cook for team meals.

    I don’t know why you still think this. You honestly believe that a first year coach lied to everybody when he said he didn’t participate in 2012 draft? You think he showed up and after a few weeks on the job walked in the draft room and TOLD Dom what players to draft? Do even realize how asinine that sounds? I’m sure he had input but come on man.

    Dominick paid Derrick Ward, I guess that is on Raheem too?

    Stop living in the past. That was a LONG time ago to still be criticizing him for it. Even then, he was a 1000 yard rusher at the time and we needed a runningback, can you REALLY fault him for that?

    Dominick has done leaps and bounds better the last 2 years, but it all started once he brought in Schiano.

    Lets not forget that the guy you love to hate (me, apparently) is the one that went out and got Schiano. The Glazers signed off on it but Dom found him.

    @Bobby

    The “haters” use no logic whatsoever. They point to a single stat or transaction to “prove” their statements and fail to see anything in a wider scope. They are incredibly short sighted. (And in stevek’s case, just refuse to believe proven facts.) Unfortunately, no amount of conversation will convert these guys. This season will speak for itself and most of these “haters” will either crawl into a hole or change their screen name.

    Bank on it.

  41. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Oil Derrick Brooks

    Gruden got the most out of the senior citizens playing football for the Bucs for 3/4 of a season for a LONG time. I will give him credit for that.

    Three players left from the Gruden days only four seasons ago. That says it all.

  42. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Couch,

    Nah, man. It only appears that way. In actuality, Dominik inherited a team with less talent than an expansion team. He had to eradicate the entire roster.

    We need at least 80 games, bare minimum, to judge him. I prefer to give GM’s about 8 years, myself.

  43. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Yes Couch, because their is not supposed to be situational awareness when it comes to evaluations. We must ignore the fact the most of the players had to leave the building with the use of their walkers when Dom took over. We must ignore the fact that the youngest coach in football was running this team for three out of the four years in Dom’s tenure. We most ONLY look at wins and losses when evaluating a person who is never on the field. (You know, the place where wins and losses actually happen.)

    We must ignore facts Couch. They get in the way of some of us making points.

  44. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    I perused the 2009 Seahawks roster, and the 2012 Seahawks roster.

    They have exactly 4 players from the 2009 squad: Unger, Bryant, Hill, and Trufant.

    Hmmmm. I am sure I can explain this too.

  45. Vic66 Says:

    I personally could care less who’s voice was the loudest or strongest in the draft as long as the men chosen turn out to be rough tuff ballers who play hard, are consistent, play smart and stay out of trouble. What this town needs is a winning season. I believe Dominik and Schiano wants that also. If that means sitting down someone and playing someone else, that is what depth is all about. No position is sacrosanct, not even Revis’, it’s win this year with no excuses.

  46. stevek Says:

    West Coast,

    C’mon man, I can bark about Freeman’s inability to be a damn good QB consistently, just as you can about the pass D, prior HCs, prior OCs, etc…

    Dominick found Schiano, whom I was also delighted got the job, and the 2012 draft was solid.

    Your really think Schiaon had 0% to do with the LaVonte David pick, a former LB himself?

    My guess for all of our stellar drafting the last two years, Butch phucking Davis, that guy wakes up every morning and sh!ts out roster talent. It is infectious, and hence Freeman hasn’t been paid.

    New Schiano Order dictates: pay elite talent, and draft the gaps.

  47. Andrew 1 Says:

    @ Couch

    every one is to blame, the entire bucs organization is to blame, even the owners. Im not giving Dom or Freeman a pass, but to put the sole blame on them is asinine.

  48. Braheem Says:

    @WestCoastBucsFan

    ———————-
    “You forget that Freeman’s current salary is on the books. (Around $8mil I believe Joe said.) So when he is resigned that $8mil from this year is part of that money used to resign him. If he gets paid $16mil next season it is really only adding $8mil towards the cap.”

    Thanks for helping buoy my point that Josh Should be resigned NOW! If he plays “Lights Out” and his contract expires, he will be in a worse situation than he is now…..that is if he wants to remain a Buc! (Worse being more stressful)

  49. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Perhaps Gruden was fired too quickly? Surely only the best coach on the planet could coax those players onto the field, away from their walkers, and win 9 games! He is a damn magician!!

  50. Braheem Says:

    @Bobby

    Nice Apples & Oranges argument about The 49ers-Alex Smith situation and Buccaneers-Josh Freeman situation.

    I don’t believe the 49ers were coming off a season where the Offense had Franchise records with Alex Smith when they drafted a QB. In fact the problems of the team were directed at QB ineptitude.

    Reserve your Strawman analysis for the next guy

  51. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Perhaps Gruden was fired too quickly? Surely only the best coach on the planet could coax those players onto the field, away from their walkers, and win 9 games! He is a damn magician!!

    Just good enough to miss the playoffs every year. Boy I sure do miss the end of season collapses. Not to mention the QB carousel. I wish we still had four interchangeable backup quarterbacks competing for the starting job. We would probably have Brett Favre quarterbacking today if his holiness was still coaching here.

    He would have been fired in 2010 anyway. What kind of defense would he be able to run without Monte? Make no mistake, this team was doomed for a rebuild the second we knew Monte was leaving.

  52. Andrew 1 Says:

    ^^^^ lol at the Brett Favre comment, its funny cause its true.

  53. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    I know, but, he took literal corpses and won 18 games in two years!! Those men were dead!! With him not around to necromance the zombies, Dominik was FORCED to clear the roster. And, it’s been proven that it takes no less than 9 years to rebuild a new roster with any success.

    I mean, when has a team filled with such dead weight (pun intended!), been able to retool a roster any faster than 11 years?

    Let’s not pretend that other teams have updated their roster in less time. Why? Because the situation Dominik walked into defies history. Not just NFL history but of mankind!!

  54. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Your right, we should be more like Seattle. They have one winning season in the last five years. We only have one win in the last four. We should worship at the alter that is the Seahawks front office that has managed to put together a single winning season in five years. (Lets give them credit for the 7-9 playoff season while the Bucs sat at home after 10 wins)

    Maybe your right. Maybe the guys running a billion dollar business(es) have no idea what they are doing. (Glazers.)

    But you don’t even want Dom fired, right? You would just “understand” if he was?

    There is no easier side of the fence than the middle.

  55. lightningbuc Says:

    Left Coast,

    “The “haters” use no logic whatsoever. They point to a single stat or transaction to “prove” their statements”

    Yes, that silly, little ‘ol stat like Won-Loss record, which is more important to me than how many Pro Bowlers the Bucs have – half of which went as alternates after the better player bowed out.

  56. Couch Fan Says:

    Theres absolutely no way it takes 9 years to rebuild a roster. You said its proven? Show me the proof cuz thats very hard to believe. I find it extremely hard to believe that any ownership of any sports franchise would be willing to wait 9 years to become a contender.

  57. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Win-loss IS the most important stat. That is why Raheem was fired. Does anybody honestly think Dom is so devoid of talent he got Raheem fired but not himself? Should Dom have been fired after ONE SEASON with his new coach? Were expectations THAT HIGH in a coach’s FIRST season?

    Tell me, when should Dom have been fired?

    After his second season when the Bucs narrowly missed the playoffs on a ten win season? After his third season when it was obvious the talent was there but the coach mentally lost his players? (Unless there is some OTHER reason we lost ten in a row? The talent was there to win those first few games and go 4-1, then the coach lost his players. The players later confirmed that is what happened. Just ask Davin.) Or how about after a single season with a first year head coach in his fourth year? That surely proves how terrible he is?

    Tell me, when was there enough “proof” to fire Dom?

  58. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Of course my comment wasn’t directed at you Oil Derrick Brooks. I know you don’t want him fired, you would just “understand” if he was. My comment is for those that believe he should already be fired. Wouldn’t mind having those people on record.

  59. lightningbuc Says:

    I don’t think the “lotion boy” should have ever even been hired, so obviously I’ve wanted him gone a long time ago. But the Glazers were doing things on the cheap, so they “promoted” the alleged “rock star” – someone they could pay far less than a real GM. And they did the same that year with a coach – “promoting” a DB coach who they didn’t have to pay much for. And the old adage has proven out – you get what you pay for!

  60. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Great coaches first NFL seasons:

    Bill Parcells: 3-12
    George Allen: 8-6
    Chuck Noll: 1-13
    George Halas: 10-1
    Bill Walsh: 2-14
    Joe Gibbs: 8-8
    Tom Landry: 0-11
    Don Shula: 8-6
    John Madden: 12-1
    Paul Brown: 12-2
    Vince Lombardi: 7-5

    Whats the point?

    Half of Dom’s seasons as a GM have been with first year head coaches. They are almost guaranteed to have a losing season regardless of talent. If a significant amount of the greatest coaches the game has ever seen have bad first seasons how can you blame the general manager for something that happens to almost every coach the NFL has ever seen? Is that how you evaluate a GM?

    If you just take out the “guaranteed losing” first season, Dom is 14-18. Not great but it is still .4375 winning percentage. It doesn’t prove anything but if you look at the statistics MOST NFL coaches do not win in their first season. Now how do you lump in the wins and losses from a coaches first season(s) when evaluating the GM? Especially when half of the GMs seasons were with first year head coaches! One of which was SO inept he couldn’t even get a job as a coordinator after being fired?

  61. Couch Fan Says:

    I’m not gonna say I want him fired because personally I’ve liked a lot of the things he’s done. But so far none of the things he’s done has resulted in winning football. Thats fact. You may not want to look at wins and losses but FACT is ultimately you get judged by winning and/or losing. If you cant get it done you are gone… Dom has A LOT to prove as well as Freeman, more so than anyone else.

  62. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @lightningbuc

    Which GMs were hired that would have clearly been an upgrade when Allen was fired? Who was available in 2009 that would have had us in a Super Bowl by now?

  63. Couch Fan Says:

    Why do you play the game? To WIN, not to look nice on stat sheets.

  64. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Also the crazy remarks that I somehow think Dom needs nine years to be evaluated correctly are just plain uneducated and asinine. I said Dom will be graded moving forward on wins and losses. He has HIS coach and HIS players so what happens from now on will be a direct result of his decisions without nearly as many other variables to effect the season. (Such as first year coaches and mentally weak ones.) The coaching is there now. Dom will be graded much tighter on how this upcoming season pans out.

  65. Couch Fan Says:

    I know, but, he took literal corpses and won 18 games in two years!! Those men were dead!! With him not around to necromance the zombies, Dominik was FORCED to clear the roster. And, it’s been proven that it takes no less than 9 years to rebuild a new roster with any success.

    —————————
    I was referring to Oil Derrick Brooks, not you

  66. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Couch Fan

    He was mocking me and being sarcastic. He wasn’t being serious. You might need the context of our previous conversations to understand.

    He would much rather Gruden be running things. Well, actually, I can’t say that. He may or may not just wish things were different but not in any specific way. Very non-committal.

  67. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Filter got me!

    I will try this in parts.

    If it wasn’t obvious, I was speaking with tongue firmly with cheek re: the 8 year plan and so on.

    I just disagree with tefloning of his tenure thus far. He somehow can’t be judged on anything, there’s always some explanation.

  68. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    The coach was not his choice, so, ignore the record the first 3 years. (take credit for that 10 win season though, right?)

  69. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    The QB that he drafted he only drafted because said coach REALLY wanted him (You let a first time ever head coach pick your signature first ever big pick/ franchise QB? Seriously?)

  70. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    He had to replenish the talent more than most new GMs (yet those 9 win seasons).

  71. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Trading for Solj’ bad draft picks, it just goes on. The excessive excuse making for the guy is ridiculous. He is what he is.

  72. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    I’m meh on him to now. You are right, it’s totally on the fence. I have never lied and said he has done nothing right. But, that’s my point. But, it takes more than, and guys like that get fired all the time.

    I must have missed the outrage when Pioli was fired. Similar seasons on the job. Produced several pro-bowlers, inconsistent big $ franchise QB, draft issues, etc. Where were the Save Pioli picketers at there headquarters? Seems like the consensus was that’s life in the NFL, you better win or you out. Happens all the time.

  73. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    INSERT NAME is a GM with a nucleus of several very good young players to build around, an unproven 1st round QB, mixed results with free agents including several big name big dollar players, who’s teams have gone INSERT RECORD, and have produced no division crowns, playoff wins, or appearances, and one winning season (but he doesn’t claim that coach anyway).

  74. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    No one on the planet would feign outrage if this person got fired. Nothing earth shattering. He’s here, and I hope he succeeds because I’m a Bucs fan, and I want to see them in the playoffs. But, I’m not going to brush aside what’s gone on with all these excuses.

    I’m certainly not going to start judging right him now in year 5, and call him an important part of a upcoming dynasty (certainly not while calling others out for pointing out his record) That’s as deluded as saying 5′s play shows that’s he’s sniffing the SB.

    This is far more complex than need be, It’s a pretty simple concept.

    If 5 starts churning out All-Pro seasons, who will get credit for him? Sure won’t be Raheem. I love bread buttered on both sides.

  75. stevek Says:

    West Coast,

    What “logic” does it take to see we were 35%+ under the salary cap heading into the 2011 season, only to “have to” sign Albert HaynesWORTHLESS?

    That is inexcusable, and a “rock star” GM, NEVER EVER let’s it get to that point of “desperation”.

    Now, since the Schiano hire it has been pretty smooth sailing. I think Clayborn , Bowers and Williams all have solid years too. Dom is doing better, but some of the bull sh!t GM wizardry pulled on us during that time is Charles Barkley- “Turrible!”.

  76. Couch Fan Says:

    We sure did dodge a bullet with fat albert… that alone might of got Dom fired Lol

  77. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I’m certainly not going to start judging right him now in year 5, and call him an important part of a upcoming dynasty

    So if the Bucs go on to have multiple deep playoff runs in the next few years, Dom gets no credit because of his first few losing years? The Bucs will have miraculously overcome the plague that is general manager Mark Dominik to find success?

    Okay.

    I never said to ignore the first few seasons. Not once. I said to take them for what they were. Seasons that were used to purge bad/old players and create salary cap room. The guy responsible for the losing has been fired already, why are you still crying? Or should the new coach have come in and taken us to the playoffs in his very first season with a team coming off a ten game losing streak? A reasonable expectation for sure.

    When did a reason become an “excuse”? Why is Dom the “reason” we lost but Raheem is the “excuse” for why we lost? Why is Dom the “reason” the Bucs have been 24-40 but injuries, the coaching, the defense is the “excuse” we lost? Who dictates these things? You?

    I have said from the beginning that Dom has merely done enough to keep his job. (More than once I have said this.) I also provided evidence (or “excuses”) as to why he still has his job and Raheem doesn’t.

    You don’t even have the balls to pick a side. You stand on the sidelines and throw rocks. I have no problem being realistically optimistic about my team and making bold predictions based on what I have seen to date.

    I am not sure why you feel the need to engage me while I am debating people who at least know how they feel about Dom. I respect a guy like lightningbuc a little more who has no problem picking a side and standing by it. I will gladly engage him and let him know why he is wrong (and he, I) but you? Balancing on that fence, waiting to see which side comes out on top so you can pile on. Just so you can avoid being wrong? Why? Is speculating only for the ignorant?

    “I love bread buttered on both sides.”

    You said it best. By not picking a side you get to be “right” (or simply “not wrong”) no matter how the season turns out. Congratulations on your amazing ability to be non committal.

  78. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Yeah, you are really picking sides too.

    This is way you make a stand. Unequivocally he should not have been fired up to now. Your proof? Well, he is still the GM. So, obviously, he should still be here.

    But, now in year 5, he must make it to the playoffs. But, you don’t want him to go anywhere because he is an important part of a future dynasty.

    You are valiant as hell. He has done “just enough” and now a fifth year GM must finally produce this year or else. But, you support him. Way to make a stand. You really told me!

  79. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Well, you have clearly run out of things to say. Why not do yourself a favor and avoid tracking me down and engaging me every time I make post. At least until YOU know how you feel about your own damn team.

    I mean, are you even a fan of this team? Or are you waiting to see how the season turns out before making that decision?

    Talk about lost cause.

  80. stevek Says:

    West Coast,

    Schiano has his hands in on the player personnel of the team, fact.

    Not 100% Dominick, nope.

  81. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Schiano has his hands in on the player personnel of the team, fact.

    I never even attempted to claim this stevek. I said he wasn’t able to contribute very much in the 2012 DRAFT. (Just that draft.) From that point on I am certain Schiano was MUCH more involved with forming this team. (Including but not limited to the 2013 draft.)

  82. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I copied the wrong quote. It should have been:

    Not 100% Dominick, nope.

  83. Joe Says:

    Stevek:

    West Coast,

    Schiano has his hands in on the player personnel of the team, fact.

    Not 100% Dominick, nope.

    If you are trying to start a narrative that Schiano has final say in player personnel moves, you would be wrong. As far as the draft, sure he has input, but he doesn’t control it.

    Hell, Schiano even said — coming out of his own mouth — his input was limited with last year’s draft because he hadn’t had near enough time to study college players to have a completely informed opinion.

    And yes, Schiano said it is Dominik who pulls the strings once the draft gets going.

    If you consider that to be Schiano calling the shots, then you would be right.

    Clearly Schiano had more imput in the draft this year; Mike Glennon being Exhibit-A.

  84. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    If you are trying to start a narrative that Schiano has final say…

    stevek is not just trying to start a narrative, he is CONVINCED this is the case despite the massive amount of evidence that says otherwise.

    That is all I have been trying to say. Schiano has input. Thank you Joe.

  85. Capt. Tim Says:

    Freeman is the starter. Glennon was drafted to be a backup. With some work- I think he may be a good one.
    Hopefully, the offense can continue to improve on its record setting production they had last year.
    Still concerned that we didn’t address a slot Reciever or TE- to open up the middle of the field!
    But really excited to see Joseph and Nicks back on the field together!!

    Happy to see our coach come out at end some of the nonsense going on around here. Josh is his starter. Glennon is a backup. He and josh have a good relationship.
    Think he got a lil enthusiastic at the other interview- good to see him set things right!
    That should clear things up for the zombie squad on here

    (Sigh) but it won’t. They still haven’t found a cure for stupidity

  86. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    I stopped taking you seriously after you said you would retain a GM after he goes 14-50.

  87. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    But you felt the need to keep engaging? You don’t take me seriously because of how I make decisions in your crazy hypothetical scenarios yet you continue to debate me? That’s very telling.

  88. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    “Future dynasty” – the ultimate in crazy hypothetical scenarios

 
 

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