Dominik Details Freeman’s “Tremendous Season”

January 8th, 2013

Now Joe realizes beat writers at the Tampa Bay Times and Tampa Tribune both wrote this weekend about how the Bucs aren’t sold on Josh Freeman and are crafting Plan B and competition scenarios behind closed doors.

But Joe’s rather cynical and is taking more of a we’ll-see approach when it comes to how the Bucs really feel about Freeman and the prospect of potentially replacing him and pushing him with “competition.” Keep in mind that rockstar general manager Mark Dominik wasn’t interested in providing competition for Freeman in 2010, 2011 or 2012, and Greg Schiano didn’t make competition happen in 2012, when Freeman was coming off a dreadful 2011 season. So why should Joe be so quick to believe these two leaders will make competition happen, even if they desire it?

Eight days ago, Dominik took to the Buccaneers Radio Network airwaves and sang loud-and-proud praises for Freeman. Dominik didn’t sound like a GM with any doubts about his young quarterback.

“Although Josh went through a stretch there where the turnovers were heavy, Josh still had a tremendous football season if you look at it as a whole,” Dominik said.

“Knowing that, again, he’s 24 years old, going to be 25 years old in the offseason, he guided this football team to the most touchdowns we’ve ever scored in franchise history. It’s the most points we’ve ever scored in franchise history. It’s the most yards we’ve ever had in franchise history. It’s almost 6,000 yards. So when you sit there and think about what Josh Freeman did, he set, you know, the season record for touchdown passes with 27, season record for yards, it’s very exciting to say, ‘Wow, this is a young quarterback who’s got in here who has helped us create the strongest offense in Tampa Bay Buccaneers history.’ And yet, you know, we still continue to want to look at this football team and say, ‘How can we improve it?’ And I know Coach [Schiano] probably touched on it a little bit, it’s competition. We’re going to continue to try and push competition at every level. And I am really excited about what Josh Freeman did [last season], but I know that he can do better and am excited about what he can become for our football team.”

Nobody can say with certainty that they know how the Bucs brass really feels or how they even define “competition.”

And there could be a whole smokescreen element to all this. It doesn’t hurt the Bucs to have the league think they might jump at a quarterback in the third round, for example. That could help Dominik make a quality trade down to pick up another mid-round pick, like the one he snagged last year that allowed him to trade back into the first round and draft Doug Martin.

Nothing would surprise Joe when it comes to the Bucs adding another QB alongside Freeman next year, including if the Bucs bring back Dan Orlovsky and a third veteran QB to compete for a backup job.

106 Responses to “Dominik Details Freeman’s “Tremendous Season””

  1. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    People will say Dominik is just covering for his draft pick but when you look at the numbers, he is right. Freeman set all sorts of long-standing franchise records this year. Im not saying he doesn’t need to improve but give him credit for what he was able to accomplish this season. A second year in the same system can only help him. (Hope the Bears find someone else!)

  2. George Says:

    One thing that seems common to all the Freeman critics is a complete lack of perspective.

    1) Getting a franchise QB is not easy
    2) Freeman is still only 25
    3) He’s had very little stability in his coaching situation
    4) He still has some of the best physical tools in the league
    5) He had the best season of any Bucs QB ever
    6) He’s still improving and has a great work ethic.
    7) He has the respect of his teammates.

    He’s still only 25 and he’s still improving! Let’s give him a break.

    That said, the Bucs should be looking to develop a quality backup that could start if it comes to that.

  3. PRBucFan Says:

    Seems like its going to be Schiano Vs. Dom

    Battle of the Wills

    Afterall Free’s success seems to be tied to whether Dom stays or not lol.

  4. George Says:

    I see no reason to think it’s Schiano vs. Dom. They haven’t really contradicted each other in their public statements. They have different emphasis because they have different jobs, and the contexts for their statements were different.

  5. PRBucFan Says:

    One leaned toward promoting Free’s season the other didn’t.

    But that’s my opinion though, filled mostly with sarcastic speculation lol
    but its all good, you don’t need to agree with me :)

    We shall see lol

  6. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    First of all George you are wrong. The only one losing perspective is you Freeman supporters. You give excuses and once those fail you turn around and try to tell us how were thinking or “loss of perspective.”
    Nobody has lost perspective. Freeman has had the best year of any Bucs QB in terms of numbers. Obviously nobody can dispute that. However, he did that by playing just 2 quarters of football a game (not even that most of the time).
    And it dam sure didnt equal wins. I dont care if he throw for 10000 yards in a season if the most meaningful stat says he’s still a loser than its all for not.

    As far as Schiano and Dom go, of course there going to support there QB in public. Thats a must. And they will continue to support him as long as he is in Tampa. But, whats going on behind the scenes is what matters, and that is what nobody really knows. You can predict and make your opinions but in the end your opinion is no better that mine. And I think they would be absolute fools if they aren’t coming up with a contingency play if/when Freeman fails.

    The smartest thing Rah ever said was “stats are for losers”. Why? Simply put, Because winners only need to point at there record. Losers have nothing else to fall back on but stats.

  7. Tye Says:

    Bottom line is that this sport is a business… Looking at it from that perspective, Dominik really can’t say anything differently lest he damage his chances of trading JF in the future… Talking JF up is what he needs to do if anyone else is ever to have any interest in JF whatsoever!

  8. Fatmosh Says:

    I wonder how different people’s opinions of Freeman would be if his two 4 INT games were in games 1 and 2.

    Take the season as a whole. AS A WHOLE, Josh Freeman just completed possibly the best season of a Buccaneers QB in franchise history.

    I’m not saying he’s without his faults, and I’m not saying we need to throw money at the guy.

    I’m just saying it’s funny that half of the fans want to get rid of possibly the best QB this franchise has ever had. (Although that is, admittedly, not saying much.)

  9. PRBucFan Says:

    Your right it isn’t saying much.

  10. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    @Fatmosh

    Would you not agree that the “best QB” this franchise ever had would have to incorporate wins and losses? If a QB continually threw for 5000 yards a season but finished under .500 every year then clearly he’s not that good.
    I would personally take Brad Johnson over Freeman any day of the week as of right now. His numbers arent as impressive but he was a consistant QB week after week who did his job perfectly. Ugly winner > flashy loser.
    I think thats what most fans want. So far Josh hasen’t proved he can win. Sure we can play the what if game all day, but so could 10s of 1000s of retired QBs who have failed in the NFL. In reality so far the guy is a loser. All those stats are meaningless with a 24 and 40 overall career record.

  11. 76buc76 Says:

    2010 was his best year.25 TD’s 6INT’s and most important 10 win’s.With a rookie WR and a backup NFL RB.Wow he threw for over 4000 yard’s woopty doo.I hardly think when the Lion’s stunk 5 years ago they were Bragging about Kitna throwing for over 4000 yard’s.

  12. PRBucFan Says:

    Silence = #Winning!

    lol

  13. George Says:

    Silence-

    There’s a difference between excuses and reasons.

    I’m a Freeman supporter, but that doesn’t mean I’m not disappointed or realistic. If it were easy to upgrade a starting QB, I would be all for it. Freeman was inconsistent, without a doubt… but as long as he improves his consistency next year, then I think we’re in good shape. I expect that to happen. I also think it makes sense to acquire another QB who could develop into a starter in case Freeman fails.

    I don’t really mean to say that criticisms of Freeman aren’t valid. His inconsistency was obvious. There’s no denying it. My “perspective” comment is really intended for those who are constantly negative about him, constantly impatient, and think it makes sense to dump him right away. Personally, I think that shows a lack of perspective. I also think it’s a miserable way to be a fan. The team improved this year, Freeman improved this year, the needle is pointed up. I just don’t see the point of being always on the negative side of the equation, even as things are getting better. Why bother being a fan? That’s my perspective.

  14. bucfanjeff Says:

    1) Freeman isn’t going anywhere and he’ll be re-signed to an extension.
    2) “Competition” = whom can we get in here to be a competent game manager if Josh is hurt (or completely melts). Nobody is going to push him, true athletes push themselves.
    3) We SHOULD draft a QB to try and develop them as plan B. Just ask Bill Polian what happens if you don’t.
    4) Orlovsky isn’t the answer, sorry. He really just isn’t that good.
    5) There ARE NO OTHER QB’S AVAILABLE that are remotely going to sniff Freeman’s jock.

  15. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    I get it and I agree there isn’t much out there this year. The thing is for me, I dont look at things as “negative and positive”. I only look at things one way and that is realistically. Your right the Bucs improved this year. Without question and the Bucs are heading in the right direction. I would be a fool to sit here and tell you that were not better than we were last year. When I speak about Freeman I am speaking solely about him and not the Bucs. From a future stand point I just dont see much of anything about his play that suggests he’s getting better or will be better in the future. I could hold on to blind hope and try to convince myself that he’s going to be better but why lie to myself? I just choose to be realistic. I will always support my bucs and there are a ton of things to speak about positively, but to me Freeman is just not one of them. I hope he proves me wrong because that would save the Bucs and the fan base a lot of time and misery.

  16. Scott Says:

    I’ve always thought that the QB gets too much glory and too much blame. At the end of the day wins are all that matters, but football is considered the ultimate TEAM sport. Did Josh Freeman give up 300 passing yards a game? Did Josh Freeman not get any pressure on opposing QBs? I know that he has to play better in spots, but overall he had a pretty good season. He had a new head coach, offensive coordinator, and QB coach. He’s still learning their MO and schemes. I think that we should let him have another season with EVERYONE’S full support and then reevaluate.

  17. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I think when some people start talking about the wins and losses of an individual player they forget that it is a team game. While Josh may have a 24-40 record so does every player that was on the team those seasons. The quarterback can only do so much. Just because he can’t put the team on his back and win like Brady, Manning(s), Rodgers doesn’t mean he is bad quarterback. It simply means he is not elite at his position, yet. To expect that kind of output is kind of ridiculous.

    Does anyone remember Byron Leftwich and Luke McCown battling it out for the starting job in 2009? We can do much much MUCH worse than Josh Freeman. For as great as Eli Manning is, the Giants didn’t even make the playoffs this year. Does that make him a loser? Of course not but it does show that even proven winners can be inconsistent at times.

    Im not saying Freeman will turn into that consistent franchise quarterback everyone covets but at least give him a chance to prove he can be. Four OC’s in five seasons is a bigger deal than most think.

    A backup plan is needed but I think one more season is the very least Freeman deserves.

  18. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    “I’m just saying it’s funny that half of the fans want to get rid of possibly the best QB this franchise has ever had. (Although that is, admittedly, not saying much.)”

    It says a lot, because the fans vote with their wallets. Therefore, more blackouts.

    Ever sell a house, you always say how great it is, what a wonderful neighborhood and spout meaning less facts (statistics). You never tell the truth about the defective septic system, the faulty A/C or the child molester who lives next door.

    Gosh Freeman is on the trading block, it’s so glaringly obvious. Remember, all those nice things Andy Reid said about Gosh? Let’s see if he speaks with a forked tongue.

    They should work on acquiring Ryan Mallett, it will give them a stronger hand to deal Gosh with. Instead of seeming desperate, they can appear to be nonchalant about dealing him or not.

  19. bucrightoff Says:

    1) Getting a franchise QB is not easy

    It is very difficult. You assume Freeman is a franchise guy, which is incorrect. He has the potential to be, but hasn’t shown it yet

    2) Freeman is still only 25

    And so is Russell Wilson. Who would you rather have?

    3) He’s had very little stability in his coaching situation

    Certainly true. Continuity helps. Then again, Tom Brady has had 3 different offensive co-ordinators the last few years…

    4) He still has some of the best physical tools in the league

    JaMarcus had arguably the best physical tools ever. Physical tools mean nothing

    5) He had the best season of any Bucs QB ever

    Come on, we all know what that has more to do with than anything else

    6) He’s still improving and has a great work ethic.

    Definitely not improving, but regressing from that 2010 season. He has never gotten back to that level since. Having a good work ethic is nice though

    7) He has the respect of his teammates.

    More or less irrelevant.

    So yes there are still many questions about Freeman that need to be answered before he can be considered “The Man”

  20. PRBucFan Says:

    That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.

    At the end of the day he’s the QB of this team, not the CB or LB or DE or RB.
    As the leader of the Team it starts with the QB and it end with the QB.
    That’s just the reality of the sport. Like it or Not.

    The higher the position the greater the responsibility.

  21. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    “…Gosh Freeman is on the trading block…”

    What? Obvious to who? If Freeman wasn’t traded/released for last season why do you think its more likely after he sets several franchise records?

    I am pretty sure you just say the most controversial and highly unlikely things to get attention. That is much more “obvious” than a Freeman trade.

    There is not a single reporter/expert/guru/gm/coach/etc that thinks Freeman is on the block. Debate his talent all you want, Freeman is here for the 2013 season.

  22. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    @WestCoastBucsFan

    Agreed! Miguel just likes to talk nonsense. If he had it his way. The oregon Ducks would be the Tampa Bay Ducs.

    @Bucrightoff

    Perfectly put. Nothing about his career so far suggests he is what we need at QB.

  23. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    The Bucs would be plain ignorant and foolish not to plan for a possible change at QB after 2013. To not draft a QB in the third round or sign one capable of starting in free agency would be evidence that the philosophy at One Buc is see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil with regard to Freeman. In other words, willful ignorance. I don’t believe Dominik and Schiano are that dumb.

    They still don’t fully know what they have in Freeman and if he’s the long-term answer. They have to have a plan B in place just like any other smart business would. To do otherwise would be utter foolishness. It would be a gambling mindset. How can a capable owner or CEO of any business fail to plan for contingencies? Especially at the most important position in the company? That’s just NOT how businesses are run.

    Anyone who believes Dominik & Schiano are just going to stand pat and allow possible events to overtake them unawares is lacking understanding. You just don’t get it. They WILL have a plan in place, and that plan WILL NOT consist of simply waiting for Freeman to fail and waiting for 2014 to address the depth at QB. Something’s going to happen on that front before the start of the 2013 season. Count on it.

  24. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @FLBoyInDallas

    Very well put, it would be very irresponsible to not have a competent backup/successor if Freeman doesn’t pan out or is injured.

  25. McBuc Says:

    Silence…Realistically speaking if the defense held up he would have had a winning season and we probably would not be so concerned. A few weeks before the end of the season everyone was clambering about how exciting the offense was to watch. The defense showed up for the last two games, and I hope that they keep that momentum going. To blame the entire season on freeman is not realistic. A couple of games yes. Should he play a more complete game, yes. Keeping it in perspective, it is a team sport. An entire team learning new schemes. Unfortunately Morris did a number on this club, so the turnaround was squashed and is now harder to return from than a couple other teams have done. We can say that it does not matter that Freeman broke all the records for the Bucs, but you bet your realistic butt that is mattered that the defense was one of the worst of all time. They had a great run defense, but no one needing to run the ball helps that stat out…

  26. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    And here’s the daily Freeman conversation, full of the same points from mostly the same people (and of course Miguel claiming he’s on the trading block). I think we need a new hot topic. Can’t we talk about Talib or something?

  27. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    @McBuc

    See thats exactly what I mean. I have said time and time again that with a better defense we would of won more games. That is a given that nobody can deny. But with that being said you can also say that with a QB who plays 4 quarters instead of just 1 or 2 we could of also won more games and have a winning record. It’s fair to blame the defense but it’s also fair to blame Josh as well. But for the most part, most Freeman supporters want to solely blame the Defense when we could of just as easily won more games with a complete QB.

    I have never once blamed the entire season on Freeman. I have only stuck my belief that Freeman is JUST as much to blame as the defense.

  28. McBuc Says:

    FLBoy…I agree on having a plan, but I would be surprised if they went after someone that they feel could take the job immediately. The NFL calls that a good old fashion QB controversy, and it typically ends bad for everyone. Freeman has to be the undisputed leader of the offense, and according to everyone around him he is. Now, some of my friends on this site will tell you that is lip service, but it the only thing we have to go on. Bring in Alex Smith for example, and you may split the locker room. If they want to bring someone in, they have to be a backup like we already have or a rookie through the draft. Now, if Freeman goes down or is benched and said rookie comes in like a gun slinger, well so be it, but the last thing a young and upcoming team needs is a devided locker room right out of the gate.

  29. PRBucFan Says:

    They wont accept that lol

  30. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    @Hawaiian

    Joe keeps bringing it up and it’s obvious he doesn’t think the Bucs are going to do anything except keep on keeping all their eggs in the Freeman basket. I for one think Joe is wrong and I know many fans do too. I expect someone other than Orlovsky to be #2 on the depth chart come opening day, and that someone will have the capacity or potential to be a #1 QB in the NFL.

  31. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    @McBuc

    I agree with what you wrote. I don’t see the Bucs bringing in someone who will compete on an equal footing with Freeman for the #1 spot in 2013. I see it being someone who’s just slightly less of a threat in 2013, but who could be a real threat to Freeman in 2014. That would be my prediction of what it’ll look like. Just my opinion as a fan, of course.

  32. McBuc Says:

    Silence (I love typing that, I feel like it should be in a big booming voice)

    I hear you, and I blame the entire offense including coaches. What you could say, and maybe you have, to all of us people that think Josh should stay is…”Imagine how many TDs and yards this kid would have thrown if he did not disappear for full quarters or halves.”

  33. McBuc Says:

    Hawaiian…Always the wise one…You are correct, and I keep getting involved. I dodged the 200 poster one. I deemed Sunday’s “electronic free Sundays” in my house, that just goes for iPods, Xbox, and PC games. The TV is still ok. I figure if I make it a rule for the kids I should follow too. Anyway, good point.

  34. tbfan4eva Says:

    The win-loss record of a QB can be misleading. The QB can be having a great game but if the defense cant get off the field it doesnt matter how well the QB is or is not playing. Freeman’s record as a starter proves one thing that the teams he played for were not that good. Short of maybe the top two or three QBs in the league I find it hard to believe that anyone would have a much better record with the awful defense the Bucs have been putting on the field the last few years.

  35. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    @westcoast

    “There is not a single reporter/expert/guru/gm/coach/etc that thinks Freeman is on the block.”

    “Now Joe realizes beat writers at the Tampa Bay Times and Tampa Tribune both wrote this weekend about how the Bucs aren’t sold on Josh Freeman”

    He’s on the block. Reading comprehension is a valuable asset when posting on this blog.

    The time to sell a stock, commodity or QB is when they are at their highest value. Some one close to me once asked me what to do about their personal portfolio, they had about $8 million in a particular banking stock. She knew from the inside because she worked there for 30 years that the company was in big trouble. I told her to sell and invest in physical gold bullion.

    Deer in the headlights, her $80 stock went to 80 cents. Gold from $300 to $1600. Her retirement was lost. It hurt because it was my mom.

    The time to deal Gosh is when he has perceived value not after he fails completely.

  36. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    @McBuc

    Absolutely, this guy has the talent to be able to break actual meaningful records if he were to play a complete season. I would be elated to admit I was wrong if he did so. Thats why I like the idea of continuing to help him out by drafting offense as well as defense. You can never have to many weapons.

    On a side note, I’ve heard that Percy Harvin could be up for a trade before his contract runs out next year. I for one would love for the Bucs to bring Percy back to Florida where he belongs. He would fit perfectly in our offense as a slot and a nice combo with Martin. If I were Dom, I would throw a 4th round pick at the Vikings just to see if they bite. I wouldn’t give up anything more than that though.

  37. PRBucFan Says:

    In the end the excuses don’t matter though

    It comes down to W/L with QB’s, that’s just the way the business works.
    You hear it many times from different the talking heads,

    “good QB’s find a way to win.”

  38. ArmyBucsFan Says:

    Lets get rid of him. That’s what we do. That’s why this franchise will continue to struggle. Don’t develope him. It takes time and patience that we don’t want. Josh had a good year and struggles came as the O-line deteriorated in front of him. He made some dumb mistakes trying to take chances. He threw some bad passes. So what. Another QB did that here too. Somebody else took a chance and taught him to play better and he did. He turned out to be pretty good. Won a couple Super Bowls. Steve Young I think they call him. But let’s cut the best talent at QB we’ve had here because we can’t teach him to master 3 new offenses in 4 years. You guys are right. Lets continue the dismal decisions we always make. From a loyal Bucs fan from the inception of the team and a season ticket holder, just give the coaching staff a year or two more before calling for his head. This team is trying to rebuild but will do anything to fill that stadium. We call for Josh’s head and they will find a way to do it. My opinion is it will be another 4-5 year setback and Josh WILL go on to win a Super Bowl somewhere else.

  39. ArmyBucsFan Says:

    Lets get rid of him. That’s what we do. That’s why this franchise will continue to struggle. Don’t develope him. It takes time and patience that we don’t want. Josh had a good year and struggles came as the O-line deteriorated in front of him. He made some dumb mistakes trying to take chances. He threw some bad passes. So what. Another QB did that here too. Somebody else took a chance and taught him to play better and he did. He turned out to be pretty good. Won a couple Super Bowls. Steve Young I think they call him. But let’s cut the best talent at QB we’ve had here because we can’t teach him to master 3 new offenses in 4 years. You guys are right. Lets continue the dismal decisions we always make. From a loyal Bucs fan from the inception of the team and a season ticket holder, just give the coaching staff a year or two more before calling for his head. This team is trying to rebuild but will do anything to fill that stadium. We call for Josh’s head and they will find a way to do it. My opinion is it will be another 4-5 year setback and Josh WILL go on to win a Super Bowl somewhere else.

  40. upthegut Says:

    Miguel it is a shame your Mother lost a fortune, otherwise you might have gotten the counseling and treatments you so desperately need.

  41. CanaBuc Says:

    Guys you all have valid points.

    I like Josh. He has the size and mobility to extend plays. He can thorw the deep ball, though I find his passes are more like lobs then rifles ala Kaepernick.

    We must remember the offense was learning a new system this year with new personnel and a makeshift O-line that while good at sack numbers (this had more to do with Freeman being hard to sack given his size) was not giving him a lot of time. The O/C put in place a complex system that I think is best for someone of a veteran calibre QB/Wr as it calls for a lot of reads midroute adjustments where if receiver and QB don’t see the same thing some horrbile plays and easy picks can occur. It took Eli Manning a few years to be natural in that system.

    I think it would be better for them to use Josh towards his strnghts which is more QB rollouts instead of staying in the pocket, give hime some room to extend a play with his legs and if nothing is open let him run it a bit. I find he does not look comfortable sitting in the pocket…

    Finally last comment is yes with a better Josh we could have won more games.
    Now of our 9 losses how many did we have the leadlate in the 4th quarter. I can think off the top of my head of losing to NYG, Washington and PHI on their last drives. That tells me we should have been 9-7 or 10-6. wE were a close call from tying and maybe winning the NO game as well when the defense had more holes than a sieve.

    We lost 7 of 9 games by 1 score or less often blowing leads late.

    This team had an offense good enough for 10-122 wins this year with Freeman at the helm. Next year with a healthy Nicks and Joseph and hopefully if our OC does not leave for a HC job, I only see our offense improving.

    We really need more pressure up front on Defense and we should try to make a play for the best FA cornerback ( with the money Wright pissed away)and use our top pick on the best CB out there or if noone outstanding is there get a top pass rusher as more pressure= less time the CB need to defend.

  42. BigMacAttack Says:

    Silence and McBuc, I agree with y’all about the defense and wins. Freeman also went down when Carl Nicks went down. Freeman did make a bunch of stupid mistakes during that last stretch, but was brilliant at times too. I think it’s all going to work out fine for Josh, but I do want to see another good prospect drafted for the future as well. Sapp said give me 16 points a game and the defense will win it. We need to get back that tough defense again.

  43. McBuc Says:

    Bigmac…Agreed

    Silence, I would love to give uup the Talib 4th for Pecy! I also agree we need to draft offense and defense. The last two games the defense started to gel a little, maybe that is signs of good things to come.

  44. PRBucFan Says:

    @Silence

    Same thing we have both been saying for a while now…

    Progress ;)

  45. raphael Says:

    if its only wins and losses than russel wilson is a better qb than andrew luck or rg3 ? lol

    defense is the difference…

    Freeman is our franchise Qb for many years ….thankfully !

  46. Kryq Says:

    I seen a Mock draft of us Taking Dion Jordan in the 1st round.
    David Amerson in the 2nd.

    I don’t have a problem with that look at Jordans Highlights.

    http://youtu.be/aNh0SgWe3rc

  47. McBuc Says:

    PR…To a point, because you guys are not all wrong, just like Brad and the others are not all wrong either. I am all for bringing in a backup, like we talked about above, but it seems you guys are ready to cut ties. I would hate to see Freeman head up to Chicago and realize his potential, even if it took him two years up there. I feel that the entire team will play more consistent next year. It is a team sport, but someone said in this thread that it does not matter, because the QB is going to get the blame…and that is correct. I like to take a look at the big picture, and the first half of the year the Bucs over achieved, the second half they were who we thought they were…got our hopes up is all. The mess the Morris left behind is not the type of mess that is cleaned up in one year. And yes, I supported Morris as long as I possibly could.

  48. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    Defense is not the difference crotch rider. Does it help? Absolutely but if you watched the actual game instead of running your big mouth you would of seen that Russell Wilson played a very good game but more importantly he didnt do anything to cost his team a win. Which is something Freeman cant claim. Though I am sure you will try your best to spin it.

  49. McBuc Says:

    Oh, and the business comparison is laughable. So basically if you had a sales person that broke every sales record your company had, but the company still lost money you would fire him? You have to see the forest through the trees, this was a group failure. Even if that sales guy had great months and bad months, he still broke all your records and had what is widely seen as a successful year. I had my best year ever, but my company did not. I am glad my CEO knows the drill.

  50. Nick2 Says:

    If Josh has another “tremendous season” like that you will be out of a job Dom so get real and start smelling the coffee!!!! Please get him some legitimate competition not to push him but in case he quakes again. No more 4 interception games during a playoff hunt!!!!!

  51. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    @McBuc

    I’m not ready to cut ties. Maybe if there was something out there in Free Agency or a stud QB in the draft then I would be inclined to favor jettisoning Freeman. But since that isn’t the case there is no reason not to let Freeman keep playing out his rookie contract in hopes that he proves us wrong. I would even be in favor of using the franchise tag on him after next year if we have a solid plan in place as to what we will do with him after that. Im all in favor of giving him another year, I just don’t think its all magically going to come together for him.

  52. McBuc Says:

    Matt Ryan had a five INT game in a play off hunt…just saying. They won the game, but their defense is at least middle of the road.

  53. Nick2 Says:

    Fatmosh are you saying Josh is better than Steve Young? And as for taking away 2 four intereception games and placing them at the beginning of the year? What does that mean exactly? Josh choked in the middle of a playoff race not at the beginning of the year. Get a little perspective, quarterbacks are good when they perform well in the clutch.

  54. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Miguel

    So, you think “Aren’t sold” means “on the block”? And you think MY reading comprehension is lacking? “Aren’t sold” means they are bringing in competition, not that Freeman is on the block.

    You draw the craziest conclusions. If it is so “glaringly obvious” he is on the block then how come literally NO ONE else is talking about it? Not about the lack of faith in him but actually using the word “trade”.

    Investing in gold by the way, is a terrible idea. Since its recorded history it has barely averaged 1.5%, about the same rate as inflation. Its never a great long term investment (like retirement savings).

  55. PRBucFan Says:

    I was referring to the Business that is the NFL ;)

    I have repeated on numerous occasions that he should get the last year of his contract. However if he proves to be the same Jekyll/Hyde after another year I am all for cutting ties. That’s just my opinion.

    I don’t think we overachieved the first half actually, I believe we played to our potential as did a certain QB we have. Than the problem of inconsistency kicked in and than we stopped performing at the level we were capable of performing at. Again my opinion.

    I hope we never think we’d be that bad lol. I know I didn’t.

  56. stevek Says:

    Raphael,

    Freeman is only under contracy through this year.

    Gosh is at a crossroads, similar to that of GMC last offseason.

    Where is Freeman’s progress? He dissapeards for Quarters, halves, games on end.

    No more losing streaks, miscommunications, and all that other hooplah.

    When is your shining star held accountable? At what point do you have to ask yourself, “Is Josh Freeman better today than he was in 2010?”.. The short answer that one: NO.

  57. stevek Says:

    PRBucFan,

    Right on, if Freeman shows to be consistently inconsistent, again, next year, then BYE BYE JOSH!

  58. raphael Says:

    careful guys ..if Josh decides to leave the Bucs will be sorry…..big time

    hopefully he will be here for many years, and you guys will keep crying about a game you no nothing about …lol

  59. 911bucs Says:

    According to the Bucs they are not interested in extending JF contract this off season.

  60. BucFan20 Says:

    McBuc, THAT is the dumbest thing I have seen yet. A sales person is making money for his company with his sales. FREEMAN is making NOTHING setting useless records for his . Not even selling tickets because of them. That’s why you work for your company and don’t own it.

  61. Eric Says:

    Funny he left out the worst defense in franchise history last year, or the 2nd worst pass defense in league history in his brag session.

    Or the no playoffs in his tenure.

    Or the 7,10,5 game losing streaks.

    Or the 40 losses in four years.

    But, he’s excited. Oh goodie.

    What a loser.

  62. Greig Says:

    It’s sad when even coach uses the same lame excuses for Freeman being our starting QB.

    #1 who cares if he’s 24/25? At this point that means nothing because rookies and second year players are showing they have “it” while Josh hasn’t shown anything other than inconsistancy in his 4th year. It’s experience not age that matters with a young QB, and Freeman.

    #2 He’s set all these franchise records, whoopie doo!!! Who cares, that just means he has been the best smelling turd. It’s not exactly like we’ve been an offensive powerhouse and those records were impressive, when a guy Vinny Interceptaverde held a bunch of career ones it says a lot.
    Passing yards (season) – Brad Johnson 3811, 15 different QBs put up yardage last season that would have broken that record including rookie Andrew Luck and others like the “great” Joe Flacco, hell Cam Newton would have broken it twice with the numbers he’s had in each of his 1st 2 seasons.
    Passing TDs (season) – Brad Johnson 26, 8 QBs had more than that just last season including 2nd year man Andy Dalton.
    As far as team offense records go…
    40 TDs sets a record, that’s pathetic, the freakin Panthers had that many or more in each of the past 2 seasons. Mark Sanchez managed to lead the Jets to 40 in 2011, SANCHEZ!!!
    5820 yards is our new record and it’s only good enough for 9th this season. It was beaten by 14 teams last year, 7 in 2010. That’s 29 teams in just the past 3 seasons that have beaten our franchise record.
    Just because something was a record doesn’t make it impressive, considering the weapons Josh had to work with compared to previous Bucs teams those “records” should have fallen.

  63. PRBucFan Says:

    @Greig

    AMEN hahahaha good stuff

  64. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    Gosh is on the trading block. Otherwise, the Teflon Dom wouldn’t be bragging on him. When they go to the negotiating table, Gosh’s agent will simply put all of Dom’s comments and superlatives on the table and say, “Pay up.”

    If the Bucs had any intention of keeping him, they would’ve shut the hell up and signed him. They are shopping him around the league as they speak. They will not pay him $8.5 to sit on the bench next year and then lose him without compensation.

    I would pay to see the look on Raphael’s face when they ship him off.

    @westcoast

    “Investing in gold by the way, is a terrible idea. Since its recorded history it has barely averaged 1.5%, about the same rate as inflation. Its never a great long term investment (like retirement savings).”

    So you’re saying all those gold coins in my safe are not a good investment. My grandfather gave me a lot of those and they cost him about $30 each. According to your fuzzy math, those one ounce coins are worth less than $100 each after more than 50 years.

    According to today’s quote, they are now worth $1600 each and are tax free.

  65. jarrett Says:

    vince young, dilfer, grossman, tebow, all were winners. They also all suck. Winning does not mean good.With a mediocre defense we win 10 games this year.

  66. PRBucFan Says:

    Really they were winners?

    If they were proven winners they’d still be starting today lol

    Tebow with 1 season doesn’t have enough experience under his belt to to be called a winner.

  67. PRBucFan Says:

    As far as Dilfer goes I don’t know where your going with that lol

  68. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Im not going to get into the details of investments with you Miguel. (Im not sure you could handle it). Besides that, this a website dedicated to Bucs football and I would like to respect that.

    I will leave you with this:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2012/05/09/why-warren-buffett-wont-invest-in-gold/

  69. PRBucFan Says:

    And And Vince well he’s a totally different story altogether.

    And don’t try and convince me lol,
    I’m not the one that came up the fact that winning as a QB is what matters lol

    Convince the NFL lol

  70. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “Gosh is on the trading block. Otherwise, the Teflon Dom wouldn’t be bragging on him. When they go to the negotiating table, Gosh’s agent will simply put all of Dom’s comments and superlatives on the table and say, “Pay up.”

    If the Bucs had any intention of keeping him, they would’ve shut the hell up and signed him. They are shopping him around the league as they speak. They will not pay him $8.5 to sit on the bench next year and then lose him without compensation.”

    ——

    Poor Miguel. I really do feel quite sorry for you. So you’ve never heard a team brag on their QB in the offseason? Where have you been for the last 4 years? They’ve said the same thing every offseason. Hell, we’ve actually been doing it for 36 years. I have yet to hear any team in the NFL say “our QB sucks, we are in big trouble if we don’t get a replacement.” Do you not remember Shanahan only 2 years ago stating that he put his career on the line that Rex Grossman and whoever else they had there (can’t remember, don’t care to look it up) could be very good QB’s? It’s all offseason chatter. And I highly suggest you meet an agent, because you clearly have no idea what they do and what they use. What is said in the media has no bearing on what is said in the negotiations. Absolutely none.

    As for not resigning him, that means nothing in relation to whether or not they are shopping him. No team is going to give up anything to get a guy on the last year of his contract anyway. And not sure if you’ve ever heard this, but they can very easily franchise him for 2014 if they don’t resign him. So they actually have 2 years left on his deal, if they so choose. But I know your head is spinning right now with all these facts, so I’ll stop now. Now I’ll bet my house you will come back tomorrow and say the same crap you say over and over again. None of which will come true.

  71. PRBucFan Says:

    Oh and Grossman has a W/L of 10-19 from 07-11… Hardly winning

  72. George Says:

    I love it when people make bold assertions with absolutely nothing that could even remotely be characterized as evidence. Speculation does not equal evidence. Could Josh be on the trading block? Yeah, maybe… once the league year is over. Is there any evidence that he’s on the block or will be on the block? Unless you heard it from a source inside OBP, that’s called useless, mindless, fruitless, irresponsible, and idiotic speculation. It’s made up. Occasionally, some of this made up BS turns out to be correct, but most of the time these kind of ideas just end up making one look like a fool.

  73. JSmalls Says:

    Can people please stop bringing up these young QB’s as compared to Josh. None of them had to come in and carry a team. Russell Wilson only has to make two big plays a game to win with that defense where as Josh has to produce two big plays a drive to keep us in games.

    Lets pretend Josh threw for 250 yards 2 TD’s and 1 int against the saints instead of the 4int’s, we still get waxed.

    If we don’t plan on fixing this defense and getting them in the middle of the pack in scoring, then we might as well get rid of Josh and hope we stumble on a top three QB because that’s what it’s going to take to win with a porous defense.

  74. Eric Says:

    Andy Reid says he wants next Len Dawson.

    And he said he’s not sure if that person is on his team (he’s not).

    Just sayin, connect the dots.

    Stranger things have happened. Anybody forsee Jon being our coach in 2002?
    Or Greg Schiano for that matter.

    What if the Chiefs offered their 1 and 3? Or something that included Berry?

  75. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    careful guys ..if Josh decides to leave the Bucs will be sorry…..big time

    hopefully he will be here for many years, and you guys will keep crying about a game you no nothing about …lol

    ————————————————————————

    LMAO yes were gonna be really sorry and miss that 7-9 or 4-12 or 3-13 record he’s posted.

  76. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @Eric,
    What if I could fart rainbows? Neither will happen. There’s a difference between a surprise and pure stupidity. If the Chefs were stupid enough to do that, by all means go for it. I can’t think of any stranger thing happening. Its funny how so many of our fans that trash Freeman (often times deservedly so) think that KC would give up their #1 pick to get him???

  77. the_buc_realist Says:

    Andy Reid knows what good Qb’s look like. No way he wants freeman in KC

  78. PRBucFan Says:

    And it wouldn’t be Josh deciding to leave, it would be the Bucs showing him the way out lol

    @Hawaiian
    No way in hell is he worth a pick anywhere in that vicinity lol
    Crazy talk

  79. Eric Says:

    @hawaiian,

    Probably right, but it has been said this is a week draft class. Is there a QB in the draft worthy of number one?

    How bout switching our number one for theirs plus Josh.

    KC wants a QB in the worst way. They haven’t had anybody worth a damn since Montana came back briefly. Before that Steve Deberg was high water mark.

    Might be dealing with soles even more desperate than ours.

  80. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    @Hawaiian

    I’m not sure anyone really believes that. If it were true, the Bucs should/would jump all over that but I seriously doubt they are that desperate.
    I think most are just throwing out idiotic ideas. Some, i wont mention any names, are just trying to be idiots and rile people up instead of having a good debate.

  81. SeanyMac in SC Says:

    I’m growing very tired of all the good Josh -v- bad Josh articles and comments. We have been over this for what seems likes months already. Something new here please.

  82. Bb Says:

    Josh ia and will be the QB, hopefully he will learn to throw short outs and slants way better in offseason . We will get someone to be real back up for him hopefully a draft pick 4-5 just in. Case he gets hurt.

  83. Mac Says:

    Now that Mark Sanchez,theres a winner, winning record,great road record in playoffs,proven winner in his first four years.

  84. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “I’m growing very tired of all the good Josh -v- bad Josh articles and comments. We have been over this for what seems likes months already. Something new here please.”

    ——

    Amen! Unfortunately, there isn’t much else going on, and this is what gets everyone excited. I can’t wait for free agency and the draft.

  85. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    7 more months of josh talk. Get use to it. Lol.

  86. PRBucFan Says:

    Sure fire winner alright lol

  87. PRBucFan Says:

    Only way it will ever stop is if he proves he can get rid of his Jekyll/Hyde routine lol

  88. JSmalls Says:

    What frustrates me about all the ‘josh’ talk is how fans totally forget why we lose – Our DEFENSE!

  89. Mac Says:

    His stats and numbers looks really similar to Doug Williams and Steve Young at this time in their careers for me to just say he has peaked time to move on.

  90. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    There will always be blind homers and there will always be doubters. There is only one way to shut up the doubters, in the words of the late Al Davis, “Just win baby!”

  91. BigMacAttack Says:

    Eric, I thought about trading Josh to KC too a couple weeks back. I was thinking about Berry and Hali though, but anything involving Berry may work. Still I like your idea.

    It’s true that you can win with an okay QB if he doesn’t make mistakes. Winning with a sucky defense is very very difficult.

  92. Andrew 2 Says:

    I wish I had the time to educate some of you, not that you would listen

  93. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    If you have time to post then you have time to educate. Otherwise your doing nothing but spewing uneducated garbage to make yourself feel better.

  94. PRBucFan Says:

    Educate away…

  95. White Tiger Says:

    Anyone who doesn’t think Josh Freeman is the franchise QB Dom thought he drafted – has a a Tebow to sell you…

    Anyone who doesn’t think these accomplishments (franchise records for passing yards & TD’s) are meaningless – is a moron.

    You deserve to be unhappy for the next 5 years watching this young man develop, win, and lock-up the QB position – I only wish I could be in your living rooms each week serving each of you your fresh, piping-hot, serving of CROW!

    Go Bucs

  96. PRBucFan Says:

    I’m hopeful the crow will come ;)

    But i’ve been waiting…

    and all i’m getting served are excuses.

  97. Greig Says:

    @JSmalls
    “Can people please stop bringing up these young QB’s as compared to Josh. None of them had to come in and carry a team.”

    I guess the Colts didn’t have a worse running game and defense every bit as bad as ours while they went to the playoffs with a rookie QB. Who exactly carried that team?

  98. jarrett Says:

    greig if we play indys schedule we make playoffs, they also have a better d. Compare josh’s numbers to lucks

  99. BigMacAttack Says:

    What good is a discussion if you can’t put everything on the table?

    To say that you can’t do this or can’t do that, this isn’t relevant, or that comparison can’t be made is BS. Can’t never could do nothing.

    Everything is fair game as far as how you produce winning results. Tom Brady was a late round pick with hardly an ounce of physical ability. These young QB’s are in the league and they are winning. Can they beat the sophomore slump? We’ll see, doubtful in some cases. If you’re not willing to make a few moves or take some calculated risks, you aren’t going to the promised land in the month of February.

  100. Pewter_Power Says:

    That is the problem with the quarterback position, they get too much credit if the team wins and too much blame if they lose. Football is called the ultimate team sport for a reason, it takes all eleven guys on the field on the same page and all doing their jobs. The Giants game, the Redskins game, the first Saints game, the Eagles game, all of these are games we could’ve won if we had a better secondary. We would then be 11-5, in the playoffs and nobody would be doubting Freeman. He really only had three bad games this year, with two of them coming back to back late in the season. I’m not saying there weren’t other games where he made some questionable throws, but overall he played very well all season. Would you guys rather have Christian Ponder or Nick Foles or John Skelton or Jake Locker or Brandon Weeden or even the over hyped turnover machine named Matt Stafford? I didn’t think so.

  101. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    @Jarrett

    WoW? the excuses are horrible. Luck took a 2-14 team to a 11-5 record (a better record in his first year than josh ever had) there division is practically the same as ours. There team was WORSE than ours. He took his team to the playoffs in his first year (something Freeman still hasent done going into year 5) and you want to sit here and still make excuses for why Freeman cant do the same… pathetically pathetic. Face it, Andrew Luck is a winner, plan and simple. Freeman is not. Andrew Luck, doesnt need a dominate defense, or even a good one. His defense is just slightly better than ours, but still far far below average. LMAO, my god the excuses are just unending for Freeman.

  102. Pewter_Power Says:

    @Silence
    We will see if Luck can keep it up next season. A lot of guys come into the league and have a good rookie year, than for one reason or another regress terribly than disappear all together. Michael Clayton anyone?

  103. SilenceTheCritics Says:

    @Pewter

    That is absolutely possible. I wouldn’t bet on it though, Luck is a winner and has always been a winner. He is the definition of a franchise QB. The Bucs would be frightening if we had a QB like that.

  104. PRBucFan Says:

    I could easily make the same argument that if we even had average QB in many of the game we lost for the entirety of the games we’d be 10+ in thew win column. It goes both ways.

  105. jarrett Says:

    Maybe the bucs should just go pick up a andrew luck from the franchise qb store. They come around one or two times a generation. You two trolls already said so yourself, that he is better than anything out there, free agency or draft. So shut up we cant improve ourselves at the qb spot, lets get this defense in order, and worry about the areas where we can actually improve.

  106. PRBucFan Says:

    Bahahahaha!!!!
    What a weak weak weak sauce and sad excuse kid

    So because the solution isn’t clear you ignore a problem until you have a solution huh??? Is that right??? Lololol laughable…

    Just like Silence pointed out few rookies would struggle coming into the league and winning 3, 4, or 7 game. An ugly loss or a pretty loss, it’s still a loss lol.

    Trolls cause we aren’t sucking Free’s left nut like you?

    I’m tired of wasting my time with you and now just like I did with Free’s other Crotch Rider Ralphy Dearest, I’m going stop giving you the satisfaction of any type of recognition.

    Simply put you don’t exist. Bubye now kido

 
 

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