Five Things
September 8th, 2025
Emeka Egbuka catches the game-winning touchdown pass Sunday in Atlanta.
Welcome to Victory Monday, Bucs fans! Ah, football is here. Glorious football! How you feeling about that win yesterday? Bet you don’t even notice your hangover.
Man, what drama, what a roller coaster, what a nervous wreck Joe was, what a win! There was drama before the kickoff ever happened. Thankfully, it didn’t involve spit. The wild offensive line shakeup shocked everyone.
The Bucs took a big step toward controlling the NFC South. Yeah, the Bucs have 16 more games to play. But they are already up one win over the only competition they should have for the division crown.
And with all the injuries and craziness (offensive line juggling) going on, when Tristan Wirfs gets back, when Chris Godwin gets back — and hopefully Jalen McMillan back by Thanksgiving, — this team may be a force come December.
Belly up to the bar and let’s look back at a wild Opening Day.
This Is Why You Draft A Receiver At No. 19
Joe cannot even try to start this day-after column without leading with rookie receiver Emeka Egbuka. Joe liked the guy coming out of Ohio State. The Buckeyes are always on TV and he just reminded Joe of a Chris Godwin clone.
“This Joe” never dreamt the Bucs would draft a receiver at No. 19, and certainly never thought it would be Egbuka. But yes, Egbuka was on Joe’s radar since last college football season (Joe first typed about him at the combine in February).
Then Joe saw Egbuka up close in underwear football season and training camp. Every day, Egbuka made two or three plays. Every damn day.
Joe was thinking often, “Please don’t let this be a mirage. Please let it not be Joe’s eyes playing tricks.”
It got to the point Joe was almost scared to type about the guy. Didn’t want to jinx him or wake up from a dream.
Yesterday, all Bucs fans finally got a chance to see what Joe saw and what the Bucs have been raving about. This guy is flat out a stud.
On his first touchdown catch, a 30-yarder from Baker Mayfield, tell Joe that didn’t look just like Chris Godwin running that route. Joe still maintains this guy Egbuka is a Godwin clone.
Then in crunch time when a play had to be made, who was there to make it? Well, yeah, Baker Mayfield. But someone had the catch that pass with Atlanta corner Mike Hughes in good position to make a play. Egbuka made sure Hughes never had the opportunity.
And to think the clowns at WalterFootball.com had the nerve to call out Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht and call him Matt Millen for drafting Egbuka. Idiots.
If someone couldn’t figure out why the Bucs drafted Egbuka, that’s on them. Joe hopes for the naysayers out there (a few Bucs fans think this way), yesterday, you were enlightened.
Baker Mayfield Found A Way To Win
It wasn’t a pretty game. Not by any means. The Bucs had flashbacks to the sorry Byron Leftwich era when there was no run game.
But Mayfield found a way. That’s what good quarterbacks do. Find ways to win. He led the Bucs in rushing — not a good thing for your quarterback to do unless his name is Saint Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick.
Mayfield, thankfully, used his legs to get out of sticky situations and extend drives and, thankfully, keep the ball out of Michael Penix’s hands.
Mayfield played just well enough that the Bucs were still in the game when he threw to Egbuka to give the Bucs a 23-20 lead. It stood up, barely. By maybe a cat’s whisker.
But that’s what franchise quarterbacks do. When the rest of the team is sputtering, they find a way.
The Crazy Offensive Line Shuffle
A few times in training camp, the Bucs had Graham Barton work at left tackle. It was more of a preparation in case Charlie Heck went down.
Barton, of course, was a left tackle at Duke for three years.
All through underwear football season, minicamp and training camp, the Bucs were full-go on Heck at left tackle until All-Pro left tackle Tristan Wirfs was able to return from his knee surgery rehab. On Aug. 21, Bowles said Heck was the starting left tackle.
Then all of a sudden, a half-hour before kickoff, Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht told the world on the Buccaneers Radio Network that Barton would start at left tackle, Ben Bredeson would move from left guard to center and not-that Michael Jordan would be plugged in at left guard.
Joe was shocked on many levels. First was the timing. The Bucs worked as if Heck would start at left tackle for four months and then suddenly get a wild hair up their poop chute to flip around three different positions?
Joe brings this up because fans and media constantly hear and are told/scolded how continuity is critical for communication and success on the offensive line — and then less than two weeks before the first game you throw that out the window? Was Heck that horrible. And if he was, why wasn’t this addressed sooner?
Bowles said film study show how much better Barton was at run blocking than (apparently) Heck was. And since the Bucs wanted to run the ball, they decided to throw caution to the wind.
Interestingly, Heck played very coy with Joe about this when Joe interviewed him Wednesday. Heck explained to Joe how he was studying and preparing for his first Bucs start at left tackle.
Joe did notice that Heck seemed sort of tight-lipped. Now Joe knows why.
This could have really blown up in the Bucs’ faces. They really lucked out in some ways. Early in Sunday’s game it didn’t seem like such a slick move. But as the game progressed, the line got better.
All Joe has to say is thank goodness for the win. And please hurry up and get better, Tristan!
The Return Of The Real Antoine Winfield
It’s so easy to forget this play because of what happened before and after. But the Bucs’ defense had a game-saving play with 11 seconds remaining. And take a wild stab at who made that play. Yup, Antoine Winfield.
Michael Penix tried to get a pass to KhaDarel Hodge who was at the eight-yard line. Just as he was tucking the ball in, out of nowhere Winfield raced in and totally splashed Hodge in the chest. The hit was so massive, Winfield knocked the ball loose.
If not for Winfield just lowering the boom on Hodge, he scores a touchdown there to potentially put the Dixie Chicks up by four.
Hard to believe the Bucs would be able to score a touchdown in less than 11 seconds.
Had Winfield not splashed Hodge, he walks into the end zone.
So as great as Emeka Egbuka’s touchdowns were and as fun as Baker Mayfield’s running was, none of that would have mattered if Winfield didn’t coldcock Hodge.
Joe’s glad to see the All-Pro version of Winfield return to the field.
Michael Penix, the Bucs and the Lost Decade
So Kenny Albert and Jonathan Vilma, the FOX duo who called the Bucs-Dixie Chicks game yesterday, seemed to have a lot of fun discussing how Dixie Chicks quarterback Michael Penix was never a Bucs fan growing up in Dade City.
Penix told the duo in their production meetings that he was too young to remember the 2002 Super Bowl champs but he did remember how terrible the Bucs were in the 2010s.
And Penix was right: that was the height of the Lost Decade. It damn near killed Joe. And Joe was working games, not a common $12-beer-guzzling dude in a Lavonte David jersey sitting in the stands roasting like a hog on a spit.
Joe thought Penix might be careful who he tells that to. Albert and Vilma were broadcasting that to the greater Georgia and Florida community, not to mention nationwide for those with Sunday Ticket.
Why should Penix be careful? Well, by calling out how awful the Bucs were back then (he’s not lying), he needs to remember that his current head coach is the very man who launched the Bucs franchise into the Lost Decade to begin with, Raheem Morris.
Basically, Penix was telling Albert and Vilma he didn’t like the Bucs because his coach sucks.
KEEPING THIS ENERGY ALL SEASON đĽ pic.twitter.com/CJnK61ktww
— Tampa Bay Buccaneers (@Buccaneers) September 7, 2025
September 8th, 2025 at 5:09 am
When Wirfs comes back, might Barton move to LG? I guess that depends on how the coaches think Bredeson did at Center, right? His snaps looked good, from what I saw.
September 8th, 2025 at 5:13 am
Big hole in the middle of the defense. Fans seem to think Dennis will be fine, though he offers no proof, Bowles made excuses for his pet. Dennis was supposed to fill that hole, it got bigger. Yeah he made a few plays, but shouldn’t your MLB? The plays he didn’t make were horrific. He got pushed around all day, just like he did against Pittsburg in the preseason. He’s a 5th round China doll who needs to be replaced. Heck was benched without even been given a chance to show what he could do. Dennis should be benched for showing he can’t do it. If he can’t cover, than tackle backs, and TEs, Bucs need to replace him pronto. I’d play Bullock, Jackson. Grier, Jones over tis guy. All three flashed this preseason while Dennis shunk. He needs to go.
September 8th, 2025 at 5:19 am
Wirfs and Barton, the modern day Art Shell and Gene Upshaw?
September 8th, 2025 at 5:59 am
This was an ugly win.
Clearly, the Falcons had a better training camp and were better prepared for this game than we did/were.
That was painfully obvious in the first quarter when the Falcons marched right down the field to score on their first possession while we went three-and-out twice.
We didn’t look like we knew what we were doing on either side of the ball during the first quarter. But, the Falcons did.
Given the multitude of injuries we seem to suffer every year during training camp, and how we looked like we had no clue on either side of the ball during the first couple of series, we need an overhaul of how we conduct our training camp.
Antoine saved the game for us with that late pass break up. I’m hoping he’s back to his 2023 self.
On another positive note, I saw flashes of the defensive “ballhawk” mentality Coach Bowles talked bout during the off-season. Zyon had a pass break up, Jamel was a lot more “sticky” than I’ve seen him in the past. It wasn’t perfect, but overall I saw flashes of more aggressive tackling and defense.
Voss needs some work. I’m not ready to throw in the towel on him, given how much time he’s missed and the flashes he’s shown when he has played the past two years. But he needs some work.
I agree. Baker did what Baker does to help the team pull out a win. And Emeka played as advertised.
For me, the jury is still out on the last-minute O-Line switch up. Graham, Ben and Michael all seemed to do fine once the offense found it’s footing. I think we need to see Charlie in there so we can do a real comparison.
What running game?
Running the ball up the middle into a wall of people doesn’t work. We’ve proved that conclusively during the past two seasons. The definition of insanity is doing… Talkin’ to you, Coaches Grizz and Bowles.
One other quick note… Our D got a stop mid-field, which gave the O great field position, and the O came through with a TD. I forget which quarter it was. More importantly, it was great complimentary football. That’s how we win!!
September 8th, 2025 at 6:18 am
Well said, Joe. Also agree, Penix should be careful to criticize. Not a good look being from the area.
Loved Bowles and Lavonte’s locker room speeches!
September 8th, 2025 at 6:23 am
We won! PERIOD!!!!!
1 – 0
LFG!!!!!!!
September 8th, 2025 at 6:24 am
We won! PERIOD!!!!!
1 â 0
LFG!!!!!!!
September 8th, 2025 at 6:44 am
I am certainly glad the Falcons lost this game to us. I think many of us were expecting to a much more convincing all around performance from the Bucs. I was thinking we could break out of the mold (could be a double joke there) of the past 3 grind it out seasons. I was hoping the Bucs would handle the Falcons by a couple of TDs. I want this team driving into the playoffs, not falling in backwards. Maybe week 1 in the NFL is now preseason game 4, only it counts. Well if this game is the sign of things to come, well come to grind it out season #4.
September 8th, 2025 at 6:47 am
This whole thing about Baker did what Baker does… yeah, Baker took off running when he could to extend plays, but down the stretch in final moments when we need Baker to be clutch, there’s this illusion he is and I’m sorry to say, you can’t be further from the truth. There were multiple games where Baker could’ve finished off a team with 6 pts or simply salted the game away, and instead we give the other team a chance to tie or win. But we can’t blame the offense which was clearly the strength of this team last season, nope, we’d lay it all on the defense, which we knew was bad. Baker was responsible underperforming in those moments. Ex Reference: San Fran, @ATL and the final drive against Washington in the playoffs.
Yesterday was not a great game by him, his accuracy was suspect, and honestly, I don’t know what to think of Grizzard’s play calling. I saw zero motion and/or miss direction yesterday throughout the game. Perhaps a product of the line re-tooling? But yesterday, despite Chase almost choking the game away, Baker didn’t finish with just 3 pts to tie in those last 2 minutes, he came up with 6-pts for the win… that last drive is metaphor of sorts, flipping 3 to 6 which felt more common last season, will be the difference with this team losing in the wild card round or making it deep in the playoffs. Let’s hope that 2-minute Baker is the version we see throughout this season.
September 8th, 2025 at 6:59 am
Victory Monday feels good. EE looked amazing with 2TD’s and a 9 yard rush. Kicking game was rusty thankfully ATL was also. The new time manager Todd hired wasn’t very impressive with a blunder before halftime and wasting a timeout for the replay. Alot to work on for sure How was ATL able to review a play after the next play was already snapped? Perhaps the ref blew the whistle on the sidelines and the camera didn’t show it. W on the road against a divisional opponent is nice way to start the season.
September 8th, 2025 at 7:00 am
We are always hard on Dean and deservedly so. But letâs give credit where credit is due. During that one drive he stuck with London like glue that was a very good defensive series for him without drawing a passive interference call
September 8th, 2025 at 7:03 am
Indeed. 2x. E² is the real deal. MLB is still an issue
September 8th, 2025 at 7:09 am
Rah did and does suck. Although, his clock management yesterday was very good.
I knew when they had all that early success that the House of cards would fall down. Had the Bucs been able to get to Penix, it would have been a much easier game.
SirVocea is a liability right now. And the pass rush was pedestrian. The fact that they could not contain the guy with 2 ACLs who poke like a tractor trailer getting up to speed is a concern. What about the next guy?
September 8th, 2025 at 7:09 am
Thanks Joe!
Five things is another one of your consistent columns that I look forward to reading every season.
September 8th, 2025 at 7:11 am
Hard Rock should list doinks in kicking or game specials.
September 8th, 2025 at 7:14 am
When tristan is back, put Barton at LG and keep Bredeson at C. There was no issue this last game.
September 8th, 2025 at 7:14 am
I was wondering who the hell Jordan was.
September 8th, 2025 at 7:20 am
Baker had a bad game and we still won. Mclaughlin had a bad game and we still won. Houston was not impressive with their new offensive line, so let’s go win another one as we owe them a whupping big time.
September 8th, 2025 at 7:55 am
And indeed, his coach did suck. Ten straight losses by an average margin of 17.
September 8th, 2025 at 7:55 am
We’ll take the win but it wasn’t pretty.
SVD was bad, looking like D white out there?
That said, having him 1v1 in the flat with Bijon is a coaching fail, no linebacker in the league wants that juice.
Bake looked like he never took a snap in the preseason –
AWJ basically saved the game… Again.
The o line shenanigans seemed completely unnecessary, getting cute in the NFL usually gets u burned- I’d say that they dodged a bullet there – especially since they couldn’t run it at all. Bucs need to play a LOT better to get to 2-0, but for now we’ll take a W
September 8th, 2025 at 7:56 am
Ebuka is not a Godwin clone IMO..Godwin has been solid and steady but Ebuka will be dynamic like Chase or Jefferson.
September 8th, 2025 at 7:56 am
The Penix not liking Raheem’d Bucs and Josh Freeman Bucs made my day.
Good one Joe.
Now you have plenty of ammo for the Falclowns and the likes… the week before next matchup I can’t wait for the photos with crazy captions… unlimited back story material!
September 8th, 2025 at 8:03 am
It will be a BIG W at the end of the year!
September 8th, 2025 at 8:05 am
We should have lost that game but Penix had some incredibly bad throws
September 8th, 2025 at 8:06 am
Curse’s Five Things:
– Bowles continues to be a below average game-day decision maker.
– The “bend but don’t break” defense gives away field position and taxes the defense.
– EE was an excellent draft selection.
– The new O-line was adequate – better than I expected after hearing of the changes.
– Baker’s a keeper.
September 8th, 2025 at 8:17 am
âDuring that one drive he stuck with London like glue that was a very good defensive series for him without drawing a passive interference callâ
Agreed, those two plays in the endzone were key, but remember because he allowed a score in the same corner of the endzone in a preseason game fans dogpiled him, itâll be peeps today tho because complaining is easier than congratulating for some.
September 8th, 2025 at 8:28 am
Enjoy the WIN! I listened to Gene on vacation in beautiful Colorado enjoying many cold ones. I choose not to overthink the mistakes they made, they will correct them and we will head to Houston. Cheers, Go Bucs!
September 8th, 2025 at 8:36 am
Michael Penis got lucky with all the roughing the passer penalties and the completely bizarre explanation by the referee about not fumbling because “he gave himself up”. What is this a 70’s cop show and the prosecutor let him off the charges because he gave himself up. The Glazers need to appeal this to the rules committee for clarification and possible rules change at the off-season meetings.
September 8th, 2025 at 8:37 am
I would argue that it was not Raheem, but the Glazers did not do Coach Rah any favors (in the lost decade). The year he did win, the team was cheated out of the playoffs. The same applies to the SB Aaron Rodgers has, as without the terrible OPI call, the Pack would not have made the playoffs. I degrees, the Glazers spent no money on that team, and they should’ve invested in an experienced consultant.
September 8th, 2025 at 8:43 am
Hey Zoo Comedian you are right Baker does better in the 2 minute drill. Grizz should pick one non last 2 minutes left time to run the hurry up no huddle as a curveball to keep the defense honest and get that salt you are after.
September 8th, 2025 at 8:57 am
Cant lie Bowles finally showed some aggressiveness…going for it on 4th down was huge….
The kid Jordan didnât play too bad….Bowles is definitely developing depth…
Otton still looks hurt….EE2 looks like 7year pro….
Defense still lacks consistent pressure but the coverage on the back end looks improved
Great week1 win
GO BUCS
September 8th, 2025 at 8:58 am
MPJ just bought himself a sack by the leader of that suck defense, Lavonte David, in the rematch
September 8th, 2025 at 9:07 am
This was a Division win, a Conference win, a road win ,a W !!!! That’s all that matters! Could the team play better? Sure! Will the team play better? Sure!
Not all wins are pretty. This one wasn’t. But you have to admit…there were times when everything clicked! When you can see what the future games will look like. There were times when BM6 had all day to find a receiver. When the Buc’s Offense moved down the field like a well oiled machine and scored. When the defense stopped 4th and ones and got off the field. When the D-line got pressure from everywhere and had Penix scrambling for his life. When HR6 got his sack! There were times during this games you can see what this Buc’s team can be!! I’m excited!! On to Houston!!
September 8th, 2025 at 9:26 am
I sure hope we plan on promoting Jordan to the active roster somehow. Any team could grab him this week
September 8th, 2025 at 9:31 am
I wanted to add the following to get this off my chest.
I liked the pick back then and I loved it yesterday. I was in the camp stating that the Bucs needed to address the WR position.
Great players step up in tough moments to find a way to win. We saw it last night with Josh Allen and we saw it yesterday with Baker Mayfield. Joe, you stated last week that we are in the Golden Era of Bucs football, the Greatest Decade.
Is there any doubt that the Bucs have the best offensive line group in the NFL?
Antoine Winfield looked like the best safety in football all over again.
You’re right, and it didn’t occur to me. I think Penix is going to be a star and will be a problem for the Bucs for a long time.
September 8th, 2025 at 9:39 am
Aqualung got some flowers for the Todd. They were just carnations, but his team showed a strong will after coming out flat as a salt desert.
Now the ask. Todd, please, when the other team needs a FG to tie with less than a minute to go in the game, find a way to change up your âprevent winningâ defense. After the first drive, you tightened it up and that made a huge difference. Then on the final drive itâs âeverybody deepâ so there was no one to contain that Penix from penetrating the Bucs soft underbelly.
Fix that. Situational football.
Thank you.
September 8th, 2025 at 10:04 am
Atlantas DC has that Defense improving.. it was the first game for them too, and they shut down our run game and put pressure on Baker all day, so while our OL got through the day I donât think they were awesome. Weâll see.
I just canât bring myself to like J Dean. So much standing and watching. I call him Ticketmaster. Buy a ticket, watch the game.
September 8th, 2025 at 10:15 am
D-Rome
Agree with all of you observations. As far as “a problem for the Bucs for a long time.” I embrace this. I admire and respect Rah, there are far worse owners than Blank, I’ve had too many great times in Hotlanta to dump on them now, so I welcome this budding rivalry.
I don’t know why exactly, perhaps other feel the same way, when N.O. was our rival I respected but hated them, especially Payton. N.O. is a great town but that franchise just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that I simply do not feel for Atlanta or Carolina.
September 8th, 2025 at 10:20 am
Vilma was driving me nuts all day. I loved the guy as a player, but he is brutal to listen to. Had 4 games on the box so I couldn’t mute, but I kept telling my wife, I hope we never get this guy again.
September 8th, 2025 at 10:27 am
Licht picked the best player available as he should kudos to him, but it doesnt dismiss the hype that number 8 has been getting for 2 training camps and the lack of addressing the Need at ILB. Dennis took bad angles, was out of position. One could only hope he cleans it up, but we all saw David in his rookie year and could tell he was special from day 1, I get none of that from #8.
September 8th, 2025 at 10:30 am
Oh I forgot……. Fire Bowles !!
September 8th, 2025 at 10:40 am
Ugly game, but I don’t get people thinking the team would come out firing on all cylinders. Most teams had a sloppy game 1. We also had to play an away division game.
September 8th, 2025 at 11:23 am
Very glad Penix isn’t on this team with an attitude about the home town team. If things aren’t exactlly working out for Penix, he’ll bail and look for someone else to hang out with.
September 8th, 2025 at 11:55 am
When I heard that story about the big Penix, it flashed me back to my early years growing up a Bengals Fan. The Bucs were always my #2 until Sapp & Brooks and the guys started to dominate, when The Bengals were THE âlaughing stockâ of THE LEAGUE (until Carson Palmer and old Marv Lewis arrived there). Their games were âblacked-outâ EVERY SUNDAY, and I was soooo good with that! NOBODY wanted to watch the fricken BENGALS play during that span⌠All throughout the ENTIRE 90âs (right after Boomer and the âIcky Shuffleâ), and into the first part of the 2000âs. It was actually GREAT that they were all blacked-out. Being from Kentucky, we got to watch Tim Couch and the Browns Game instead. Then, the Titans came to Nashville with Jeff Fischer! Those were some DAMN GOOD Football Teams. Those games with Baltimore and Pittsburgh were SLOBBER-KNOCKERS. Especially, those Playoff Matchups. I mean, that one TEN-PIT PO Game⌠There would be at least 3-5 or MORE guys âslow to get upâ after EVERY single play. Crazy. So, I can definitely understand where the big Penix is coming from. Youâd still think the âBrady-Yearsâ wouldâve brought him aboard.
September 8th, 2025 at 12:10 pm
@ âDenny Gayâ – Maybe, his dad/parents werenât Bucs-Fans? Most people/kids usually end up rooting for the same team(s) that their dadâs root for growing up. A lot of people might have other âpersonal reasonsâ for disliking, or choosing not to root for their hometown team. For varying reasons. His dad played football at a pretty high level too, so HE couldâve had some personal issues with the team and organization, himself? Itâs actually, NOT a big deal. Itâs really meaningless. I KNEW this would chap someone major asses and make some people totally, just LOSE IT. It might be somewhat a little surprising, but itâs not a big deal. Not everyone falls âin-loveâ with their hometown team. And, really⌠Who cares who HE decides to root for. He is a professional athlete. Hell, itâs a âmulti-BILLIONâ Dollar Organization, and NOT some âadultâ fantasyland, that you have in your mind about the way it is.
September 8th, 2025 at 12:21 pm
When Joe wrote that first article about the Bucs drafting a WR, a little before the draft. I said then, that Iâd been thinking the same thing recently, and that youâd HAVE TO at least strongly consider it, especially IF you can get the #1-WR in the draft at #19 and you really liked the kid (even though, it was a weak class). The problem I had was with how they handled the REST of the draft. Weâll see how it all shakes out..
September 8th, 2025 at 12:41 pm
BUCS WIN!! Good locker talks by both Bowles & Lovonta. & Penex should keep his option of the WINNING 2X SB Champions 1st place Bucs to himself i mean he plays for the dirty bird never won nothing remember 28-3 falcons hey hes that othrr teams face ,kinda may resemble the other end. GOOOOO BUCS!!!!
September 8th, 2025 at 1:46 pm
Hey Joe, Raheem Morris did NOT usher in the Lost Decade. He was backed into that HC job. The Glazer Boyz were $$tied up$$ with their shiny new foreign toy, Manchester United. Compared to the 1983-95 Bucs, that was no lost decade! Raheem managed to get the team to a 10-6 year. Then the new QB turned into a head case, and the woes piled up. The first player Jason Licht drafted as the new GM was….drum roll, please….Mike Evans aka ME13, the first Bucs Offensive player to be voted into Canton. So, I guess Licht knows great receiving talent, huh? Bet he, Bowles, and the scouts crapped a big one when the BPA at #19 was EE. You bet they jumped on him. Sheesh! Go Bucs cos we owe the Texans a big one!!!!
September 8th, 2025 at 2:15 pm
I was livid when the Bucs drafted double E. I wanted D-Line because I believed the story Godwin would be back. I knew double E was a good player, just thought we needed D-Line a lot more.
Has LVD lost a step? Is that why SVD was guarding Robinson instead?