With The 12th Pick In The 2020 NFL Draft

November 25th, 2019

Wins feel great.

Wins are important.

Wins have consequences.

Yesterday’s Bucs win was bittersweet for those who yearn for the Bucs win big in April.

With a snap of the finger — and a snap or two of Matt Ryan’s spine — the Bucs upped their record to 4-7 and now own the No. 12 overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft, if the season ended today.

Sporting News updated the current NFL Draft order after yesterday’s slate of games.

Pick No. Team Record
1. Cincinnati Bengals 0-11
2. New York Giants 2-9
3. Miami Dolphins 2-9
4. Washington Redskins 2-9
5. Denver Broncos 3-8
6. Atlanta Falcons 3-8
7. Detroit Lions 3-7-1
8. Arizona Cardinals 3-7-1
9. Jacksonville Jaguars 4-7
10. New York Jets 4-7
11. Los Angeles Chargers 4-7
12. Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4-7
13. Philadelphia Eagles 5-6
14. Cleveland Browns 5-6
15. Chicago Bears (via 5-6 Raiders)
16. Carolina Panthers 5-6
17. Oakland Raiders 6-5
18. Indianapolis Colts 6-5
19. Tennessee Titans 6-5
20. Los Angeles Rams (via 6-4 Jaguars)

Big game for the Bucs on Sunday against the reeling Jaguars.

Go Bucs!

190 Responses to “With The 12th Pick In The 2020 NFL Draft”

  1. voiceofreason Says:

    more consequential wins, please!

  2. John Sinclear Says:

    The only way to get rid of a losing attitude in the locker room is to install a winning culture. To do that you have to win games. Question – do you want a winning culture or a high draft pick? You cannot have both.

  3. runnerdoc Says:

    Should the young DBs continue to progress, this draft becomes easy. An offensive tackle and multiple d lineman. Perhaps take a shot at finding a more effective 3rd down back the Dare.

  4. Etzel Says:

    I’ll take great players over the fabled “winning culture” we seem to be forever chasing.

  5. Etzel Says:

    Also, trade the first for Jamal Adams. Throw in whatever we need to.

  6. buc15 Says:

    We are building a winner and changing the culture. Imagine what winning out would do to the culture around here. Personally I don’t give a rats arse about draft position

  7. D-Rome Says:

    The players and coaches are only thinking about the next game and that’s how it should be.

  8. SCBucsFan Says:

    For the record Joe are you rooting for the Bucs to win or lose and get a better pick? You’re kind of waffling a bit from article to article…

  9. runnerdoc Says:

    When is the last time the Patriots had a top 25 pick?

  10. Troy Says:

    Yeah. Let’s make sure we breed losing into the mindset of all the young guys on the roster. What a stupid mentality. This team should be trying to finish 9-7. If we had a GM who could draft, it won’t matter where the pick is.

  11. Buccernutter Says:

    Exactly John Sinclear!

    Losers play for the future. I’m sick of that mentality. We need to improve TODAY, not in 6 months due to the addition of 1 PLAYER!

    Get comfy cuz we are gonna finish strong. We will be a legit team very soon. 2020 is our year.


  12. Colonel Angus Says:

    Win Sunday and have Vikings lose vs Seahawks and we still have a snowballs chance.

  13. Ghost of Darrell Henderson Says:

    The jump from 6th pick to 12th is sobering.

    The way this defense played, they might have a shot at 9-7, and that would be better than a top draft pick. In the middle of the 1st round, they can find a quality OT.

  14. Etzel Says:

    If losing a few meaningless games at the end of the season will completely ruin the psyche of a young player, that player is mentally weak and shouldn’t be in the league.

  15. Mort Says:

    Just win baby.

  16. SB Says:

    Initially I thought these draft picks of late weren’t very good and JL whiffed.
    I think I was wrong and they are just Young. They seem to be picking it up quite well.

  17. Etzel Says:

    Bucs lose next week all of these opinions change. You really that excited after beating a bad Atlanta team??? People screaming for BA’s head, now clamoring that this team is gonna win out the rest of their games???

    The lack of foresight and lying to yourself about how good you are is a problem for this team. Right when they are about to face facts, they beat-up on some jobber squad and all of the sudden we’re back in the SB picture. FOH

  18. Buccernutter Says:

    Etzel we’ve been losing a few meaningless games at the end of he season and a few meaningful games at the beginning of the season every year for almost a decade. That’s what’s ruining the psyche of these players!

    It needs to stop NOW! Not hopefully next year! Sunday and then the next Sunday and then the next….

    F*** draft position!

  19. Bucsfanman Says:

    Play to WIN! PERIOD, end of story.

  20. Etzel Says:

    Licht isn’t a horrific drafter (not a good one), these guys in the secondary are just young. VH3 was weighing down their image as a whole and people expected a bunch of rookies/2nd year players to hold it down. Never going to happen.

  21. Dewey Selmon Says:

    We still play the #6,7 and 9. A lot can change in the next 5 weeks.

  22. Rob Says:

    What makes you think the Bucs would make the “right” pick if they had a top five pick anyway? LOL. So many bad picks, so little improvement. I’d like to see us win out. Never, never cheer for your team to lose. Go Bucs!

  23. Etzel Says:

    Remember how going 9-7 in 2016 completely changed the future of this team and led to a winning mindset that is instilled in the players to this day????

    Remember guys?????

  24. firethecannons Says:

    I don’t give a shat, right now this team and this team’s fan base need wins. It has been so long since this team was decent the fan base thinks we should be playing for draft position. I think we could win a few more before the year is out. Maybe even we could beat the Jags.I sure don’t see wtf not! Go Bucs!

  25. BigHog Says:

    No we are not SB bound but we can’t turn things off and try to lose out the rest of the season! We need to show steady improvement so we can truly gage where we are as a team and draft accordingly ….KEEP BA AND KEEP GRINDING TEAM BUCS!!!

  26. Etzel Says:

    If you are satisfied with 8-8 (regardless of how we get there) you are part of the problem.

  27. tmaxcon Says:

    Draft position is irrelevant when you draft as historically bad as the the Tampa Buccaneers have throughout history…. results prove that..

    glazers only concern is ensuring visiting fans are comfortable at den of depression and that a basement title is within reach….

  28. deminion Says:

    I just see it as have good scouts !!! get rid of licht and get good talent evaluators its easy to hit on a top 5 pick…

  29. unbelievable Says:

    This is loser talk J0e, sorry but it’s true.

    It doesn’t matter WHERE you draft, it matters WHO you draft. Teams like the Saints, Pats, Packers, etc almost never have early round picks and yet they are able to successfully draft talent every single year.

    You want to eliminate the loser culture? Stop whining about tanking for the draft.

  30. 813bucboi Says:

    we should trade down regardless wheather we pick 6 12 or 19th….

    trade down collect an extra pick or 2….

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  31. Crack3rK Says:

    Wins feel great.

    Wins are important.

    Wins have consequences.

    Yep, just ask New England….

  32. SOEbuc Says:

    #12 would be the perfect number to trade back and yet still get a quality RT. I believe in trying to win the SB every year and Jameis won’t do that. Bridgwater or Kapernick with much needed depth on oline and continue to stack DL.

  33. ElBajito43 Says:

    I wish we could just stack up lottery pick players yr after yr of being a total failure of a franchise, but I reasoned with my own football demons.

    I know realize that it is unrealistic to expect players to lay down.
    Winston is playing for his Career, ME13 is playing for his place in history, and Godwin and ME13 playing for their place on the NFL receiving leaderboard and PRIDE Devin White to show that he is a centerpiece franchise LB and on and on….

    I am sad that we win meaningless games at the end of the season versus teams that SUCK and accomplish nothing more than to #DROPINTHEDRAFT

    for yrs and yrs as a post SB37 fan all we have had to look forward to has been the DRAFT! and dreams of a dominant era again.

    For Winnie-Pooh to earn another yr he will need to show more than what we have seen so far, ATL win is not the second coming of a football savior like JOE and others want to believe!

    The real answer that we actually have is that “TRASH” LICHT has a responsiblity.

    An OBLIGATION to invest in the TRENCHES


    someone has to set the edge and get to the QB putting up 12+ sacks a yr and we cannot just put it on “OH WE HAVE SHAQ BARRETT”

    That’s the BS Sh!t “Trash” Licht will del the Glazers!

    He will try for OkudAh or some MFn SAFETY



  34. ManzielMadness Says:

    I want Chase Young as much as anyone… but you play to win… if we’re gonna have any chance then this team needs to Try and develop a winning mentality. Plus, if Licht is making the decisions.. draft order won’t matter anyway…

  35. Etzel Says:

    “It doesn’t matter where you draft, it matters who you draft”

    Is this moron aware that who you are able to draft is dependent upon your draft position? The Saints traded into the top 15th two years ago. The Packers drafted #12 overall last year. The Patriots…. have the best coach ever (lol)

  36. tmaxcon Says:

    813bucboi Says:
    November 25th, 2019 at 10:41 am
    we should trade down regardless wheather we pick 6 12 or 19th….

    trade down collect an extra pick or 2….

    The way the bucs draft More picks just means more busts and mistakes like your boy vh3bust….

  37. ElBajito43 Says:

    One more thing I forgot to say……

    Your the LOSER @Unbelievable Matt Gay Jersey wearing man boobs having Type guy

  38. Etzel Says:

    Better players > Temporarily feeling good about yourself because you beat the Jaguars.

    Some of you need to check into reality and stop jerkin’ off to Remember the Titans or whatever.

  39. Sleepy903 Says:

    You want to win every game. It gives you a clearer picture of who is developing, Who you need to keep around and who you need to let go. If the Defense continues to improve and get better and play with effort even though we are out of the playoff race that shows you who has heart and who you need to keep around. I helps to shape your draft as well.

    The more you can keep around the better your draft will be. You wont have to fill so many holes. You may end up drafting more for depth than filling holes in the starting line up w/ the 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks.

  40. Buccernutter Says:


    wins today > hopefully wins in six months because we added one player.

    You need to stop jerkin off to draft prospects. What an idiotic mindset LMAO

  41. Buccernutter Says:

    9 months****

  42. Etzel Says:

    Potential wins that matter > Actual wins that don’t matter.

  43. Buccernutter Says:

    Etzel do you realize there is elite talent all over the draft? We’ve had premium picks for a decade and still suck

    BUT BUT BUT 2020 is the year! That’s the year we finally draft a difference maker with a premium pick.

    hahah foh nobody is eating that bs

  44. Buccernutter Says:

    improvement > hopefully improvement

  45. TBUC North Carolina Says:

    Kaepernick as a QB replacement…. R U freaking serious?

  46. Show me the TDs Says:

    There’s always free agency to combine with the draft. That’s how the Superbowl Bucs were built. Just win, baby!!

  47. Etzel Says:

    So…. everyone we have drafted in the past decade sucks… but I should cheer for these same players to beat up on bad teams because THAT’S improvement????

    Not going to argue with this loser anyone.

  48. jerseybuc Says:

    Can’t stand this idiotic thought that you somehow improve your franchise by losing so you can potentially get a better player next year. How about we improve with the 53 players we have now by winning. We also present a more favorable location for free agents if we are on an upward course. The draft is still a crapshoot, how have the Pats done for the past 20 years picking last? You play to win the game, and if you think otherwise you probably never played competitive sports in your life.

  49. Etzel Says:

    “Just be happy with the players that I told you suck!” LOL

  50. Etzel Says:

    We ain’t winning sh*t with the current 53 on this roster. Hate to break the news to you, jack

  51. Etzel Says:

    The Patriots have the best coach in NFL history and one of the greatest QB’s taking a pay cut. Please stop using them as a reference.

  52. ElBajito43 Says:

    Cannot trade down “Trash” Licht cannot be allowed to “GET CREATIVE “ he fancies himself some kind of “Guru” bargain hunter. If you give this guy a bunch of later round picks he has shown a track record of losers so…….

    MOVE UP and take a Reggie White type of guy or Simeon Rice 2.0

    Cmon NOAH SPENCE has been it as far as this type of player at Defensive Edge.

    The 49ers got Deforest Buckner we did not go after him he is a beast. Boss is a beast,

    Dungy teams had dominant defenses because it STARTS UP FRONT WITH QB PRESSURE


  53. Buccernutter Says:

    You can call me a loser all you want but you’re the one advocating for losing!! HA WHAT AN IDIOT!

    exactly jerseybuc!

    And no, that was not what I said, I said regardless of who we drafted (which there are a lot of good to great players like vea, oj, godwin, evans, marpet, white, cappa, etc) we have still sucked. AKA it hasn’t been enough and one more guy isn’t gonna change it that dramatically. What will change it dramatically is trying to win NOW! Not tanking to hopefully improve later.

    I mean are you that dumb? Good luck trying to get people to agree with that logic.

  54. Buc believer Says:

    Doesn’t matter Gump doesn’t know how to pick anyway

  55. Etzel Says:

    The fact that you list OJ as a good player is an indictment of your entire opinion.

  56. Buccernutter Says:

    We ain’t winning with all 53 players on this roster with a top offense but one guy in the top 10 next season will change all of that.

    HAHA YOU’RE NOT CONVINCING ANYONE! You would get laughed at in a locker room.

  57. RTG Bucs Says:

    It is hilarious that people think because we win against crappy teams it doesn’t mean anything, Of course it does as we are the crappiest of crappy and before we can beat the good teams we need to start beating the crappy teams regularly. Time to get out of the loser crowd. Win all you can and just draft better. It’s not like only the top 6 picks in the draft are good players. Draft quality players at the positions you need help at the most.

  58. Buccernutter Says:

    The fact you had to cherry pick OJ who was a top 5 te until injury last year and is now underutilized to support your claim in my entire post shows how desperate you are to be right and how ignorant you are to this team.



  59. Etzel Says:

    You guys, don’t get it. Licht is a moron. The higher the draft pick, the harder it is for him to mess up.

  60. Coburn Says:

    Always surprises me just how consistently you have to suck to get a top pick. I thought this team as terrible and you’re telling me that many teams have a worse record? Seems like you really have to try to be that consistently bad and not have a few good ganes and some lucky bounces here and there

  61. BucsBandit Says:

    LOL @ all the homers posting with “Winning should always be the focus!”


    Winning to start the season (and especially by mid-season) is all that matters.

    The Bucs are notorious for knocking themselves out of the playoffs by Week 9 every year and then they find some “courage” to win some meaningless games at the end of the season, which never translates to momentum to start winning at the beginning of the following season.

    Winning at the end of the season (for non-playoff teams that suck) destroys your chances to get better by being able to draft elite talent at the top of Round 1.

    These “feel good wins” that are meaningless have cost the Bucs dearly over the years… missing out on the Calvin Johnson’s, Suh’s, elite O-Line talent like Nelson, and more.

    The time to win is at the BEGINNING of the season, not at the end when you’re already out of the playoffs. Griffin should be getting some experience and they should be working to build for next season.

  62. whaaatttsss uuuup Says:

    i hate to hear talk about the draft like you are guaranteed some superman who is going to fix everything!! the draft is extremely overrated and only fools fall into that trap and lose games on purpose to get one or 2 spots up for what? a 15% chance the guy will be average??…. how many busts have their been? now compare that to how many all stars there have been to come right out of the draft… that didnt just go to a winning team… tom brady is the best example of this

  63. BucsBandit Says:

    RTG Bucs,

    It’s a proven fact that players drafted in the Top 7 positions of the Draft yield a far greater chance of being a career Pro Bowler. It matters.

  64. Etzel Says:

    “The draft is overrated” might be the stupidest thing I’ll read today.

    Ummm. Are you aware that’s how teams get the majority of the players on their roster??? Lmao

  65. Etzel Says:

    “Hey guys, lets lose now, so we can get rid of all these sh*tty players/coaches/executives and get some guys in here that MIGHT have a chance of doing something someday. Because the ones currently here have zero shot of that” – Me, actually.

  66. Jmarkbuc Says:

    You could have the overall # 1 pick and get some guy who never makes it….

  67. Rick Says:

    I think they’ll win a few more games. I can see the Bucs picking in the mid to late teens. No use getting a QB low. Even a busted Tua. Whoever plays QB next year is doing to need some protection so I think they go OL. Preferably RT. Allen, Gholston, haven’t done much. They’ll be lucky to keep Shaq, beat available DL is also a good pick IMO.

  68. Rick Says:


  69. Etzel Says:

    Yes, everyone. The draft is not a guarantee. Thank you for such valuable information.

  70. Buccernutter Says:

    Ya let’s get rid of a coaching staff known for success after 11 games with a top 3 offense and the youngest defensive backs in the league. We can’t win with evans godwin jensen marpet rojo jameis brate howard suh vea white lavonte jpp whitehead dean nassib davis gay etc

    And when the new staff struggles to have instant success will you blame the new group of players?

    LOL whatever you say dude.

  71. Alanbucsfan Says:

    You play for the 32nd pick of 1st round, or as close to it as you can get.

  72. MadMax Says:

    Derrick Brown still might be there at 12…..thats a hit, go watch him, he’s a beast. Since Suh probably wont be back this is his replacement and we need someone young, big, strong and fast beside Big V so they can grow together.

    Def bring JPP back though….and Barret if we can afford him. (franchise JW)

  73. Etzel Says:

    Coaching staff known for success? False.

    Also yes, we cannot win with about half of those players you listed. We should trade Evans while we can still get something for him.

    This team’s refusal to re-build is why we haven’t made the playoffs in 12 years. Dumb homer sh*t, kissing player ass. As long as they sign your mini-helmet, right????

  74. Nptbuc Says:

    I am with you Buccernutter! We are one of, if not THE youngest team in the NFL. I guess a lot of these posters haven’t seen kids grow up. You know “ Crawl before you walk- walk before you run” kind of stuff. Our “ kids” showed yesterday what they are capable of. Let’s hope they continue to grow. Trash the competition all you want. They were a professional NFL team coming off significant wins and were led by an outstanding QB and receiver. We beat them with our kids. Bucs need to keep winning and forget about playing for the draft crap. There will be guys available in the draft for all needed positions no matter where we draft in first round. The guys we have need to learn to win. Screw the draft being the “ answer”. It never has been and never will be. Just keep winning. GO BUCS!

  75. unbelievable Says:

    Wow these snowflakes like Etzel and ElBajito sure are some losers.

    Playing for a higher draft pick is what losers do! You dont change a losing culture by purposely tanking.

    Good teams are able to draft good players at any position, they don’t need top 5 picks.

    Go root for the Dolphins you pansies.

  76. Etzel Says:

    Carl Nassib is an alright back-up at best, and you over here thinking he’s going to be a significant piece to a championship team??? Pfft. Loser Buc fan sh*t

  77. Etzel Says:

    Nope. Supporting a group of losers is what losers do. Me and the Bandit want better.

  78. buccaneric Says:

    9-7 is still possible. Come on, Joe!

  79. Etzel Says:

    We’ve been one of the youngest teams for OVER TEN FREAKING YEARS NOW. WE ARE A YOUNG TEAM BECAUSE WE ARE DEVOID OF TALENT. Veteran leadership is important

  80. unbelievable Says:

    Lol did ElBajito just call me fat?

    Good one kiddo.

    Sorry I’ve gotten into your head so much, but the only person in my household with boobs is my sexy a$$ wife.

    If you spent less time crying on your keyboard while guzzling down Mountain Dew code red and Cheetos, you might get to experience the touch of a woman one day as well.

  81. RTG Bucs Says:

    Bucs Bandit, you are probably correct but I am not going to dig into it that deep about draft position and career pro bowls. But without even looking anything up I can confidently say that drafting in the top 7 picks has rarely done anything to help the Bucs win or get better. And not trying to be a smart ass but I honestly do not care about pro bowls, just want this god forsaken crappy team that I waste my Sundays on to get better and produce some wins. I am so beat down I will be happy if they just become competitive, then I will ask for more.

  82. SOEbuc Says:

    TBUC North Carolina

    Talking 2-3 year cheap deal with Kapernick. Jameis will never stop his turnovers and turnovers lose ball games. No tag. No new deal. Let him walk. This team is also too young and not put together to draft a QB unless it’s Herbert or burrow and highly unlikely they’ll be at 12. “32 year-old Kapernick returns and leads the Bucs (and their awesome new jerseys) to clenching a Super Bowl.” An amazing story of the century in the NFL. Then again, every time I think bucs it’s always “Okay, what needs to be done to resign Godwin in 2021.”

  83. Etzel Says:

    Just because Licht uses a Top 5 pick on a MLB, doesn’t mean that Top 5 picks are worthless.

  84. Jean Lafitte Says:

    Maybe after a win against the Jags we can slip down to #15. I’ll take the wins.

  85. 813bucboi Says:


    you sad cuz bucs won and realist has to stay in the closet all week….lol….

    trade down and collect more picks for players like VV, CD, JD, JW, ROJO…

    GO BUCS!!!!

  86. unbelievable Says:

    Etzel Says:
    November 25th, 2019 at 11:45 am
    We’ve been one of the youngest teams for OVER TEN FREAKING YEARS NOW. WE ARE A YOUNG TEAM BECAUSE WE ARE DEVOID OF TALENT. Veteran leadership is important


    But you want the team to intentionally lose? Do you think talented veterans want to come to a perennial loser that is tanking? Do you think intentionally tanking does anything besides fortify the losing culture, and cause young guys to become complacent and accept losing as the norm? Do you think having high draft positions, but drafting the wrong guys who never get signed to a 2nd contract helps us win games or brings veteran leadership?

    You’re not making any sense man. Do you even understand how NFL rosters work?

    We ALL want this team to be better. You don’t get better by intentionally losing, you just stay a fkn loser!

  87. Adrnagy Says:

    And the point here is ?

    There’s still games left. Draft board will be revised every week.
    Regardless the position in the draft. Joe will advise Licht what player to draft.

  88. Buc'n Enough Says:

    The only Pick JL will get right is when he picks his nose!

  89. Etzel Says:

    “Losing culture” and “Winning culture” do not exist. Good coaching and good players win games. That’s it. The coaching here is not good. The players here are not good. Get better ones. Veterans will play for whichever team will pay them the most.

  90. Buccernutter Says:


    All of your merit is gone now that you suggested this staff is not known for success.

    You’re a waste of time and you don’t get how dumb your logic is lol

  91. Etzel Says:

    You’ve already shown that your definition of “success” is mediocrity. Now go beg Nassib to sign your jersey

  92. Buccernutter Says:

    who said nassib is a significant piece to a championship team?!?!?!

    what are you talking about now? you are reaching at this point to make your rebuttals less dumb.

  93. Etzel Says:

    Buccernutter Says:
    November 25th, 2019 at 11:31 am
    Ya let’s get rid of a coaching staff known for success after 11 games with a top 3 offense and the youngest defensive backs in the league. We can’t win with evans godwin jensen marpet rojo jameis brate howard suh vea white lavonte jpp whitehead dean *nassib* davis gay etc

  94. Etzel Says:

    “Win” = Win a SB

    I guess I should have figured your definition of “win” means to pat ourselves on the back for going 8-8

  95. unbelievable Says:

    Okay Etzel, so can you let us know how picking at #7 in the draft instead of #12, will somehow magically replace all 53 players on the roster, and simultaneously give us immediate veteran leadership at key positions?

    Go ahead, I’ll wait for the explanation of your master plan.

  96. Etzel Says:

    Psssh. You ain’t ready for my master plan, bro. The JBF comments would be an ocean of tears when Lavonte and ME13 were sent packing in March.

  97. Etzel Says:

    Also if we win out, as opposed to lose out, the difference could be picking #4 or #20…..

  98. unbelievable Says:

    Yea, that’s what I thought.

    Stick to the arm chair, bro. Picking at #20 would be even better.

  99. Etzel Says:

    You’re an idiot.

  100. JimmyJack Says:

    Etzel. Confidence is actually a real thing don’t ya know.

    One good player in the draft sounds nice but nobody advocating it aren’t even thinking about players we do got that we wanna keep. Duh. What you think JPP or Barrett or Suh is gonna wanna play for a franchise that begs to lose? These freaking guys wanna win. You tank they will tell you to kiss their ass and go to a new city. How’s a rookie gonna fix that mess?

    Just look how many players ran from Miami? Duh. And guess what no free agents are gonna be lining up to play there…….only if they just wanna coast on a easy payday. And we tank we get the same treatment………..Oh but let’s not consider that. Let’s be idiots.

    Yeah we should of tanked in 96 too……..And Sapp would have run from this franchise. A guy like him would of probably had demanded a trade. Duh.

  101. Buccernutter Says:

    Reading comprehension is important on this site or else you’ll end up looking like you do now.

    I said good to great players. Nassib is a good player. LOL are you gonna debate that? We can win with Nassib. Many teams can.

    You try, but you fail.

  102. Buccernutter Says:

    LOL okay I get it, you want immediate success and nothing short of a superbowl. So you have unreal expectations for a first year coaching staff then.

    Got it. Now I know you’re dumb or out of touch with this organization, or football in general.

  103. Buccernutter Says:


    You’ve been getting ripped. I respect your tenacity but you have no idea what you’re talking about. LOL

  104. Etzel Says:

    (you are not paying attention)

    Forget JPP and Suh, man. They’re gonna be 50 years old by the time this team is ready to win anything. Barrett has said he wants to stay. We have REFUSED to build for the future, and that’s why we have not had any long-term success.

    Players did not “run” from Miami. They were dealt for capital.

    How f*cking dare you compare anyone on this team to Warren Sapp in ’96. Or Lynch or Brooks for that matter.

  105. JimmyJack Says:

    And don’t care if I’m acting ng like a B either about this but to anybody begging to lose. Lose at home lose in the division lose lose lose……..I got one thing to say for you……. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

    This team ain’t tanking suckers. And I am so freaking glad you are miserable about it. I’m going to enjoy every last second of this season til the bitter end!!!! HAhahahahahha…….And I’ll be there for that very last game of the year partying with all the pure Bucs fans that would never sell out. We are going to love every little minute of it hahahahahaha……Enjoy your couch and I hope we win and ruin your dreams. I hope you are miserable the whole rest of year……..hahahahaha beg for losses but it won’t never happen…….Now go cry to your Ma Ma about it hahahahaha

  106. Etzel Says:

    No you moron. I want to build a winner. You are the idiot looking for instant gratification and trying to “win now as much as possible”. I am acknowledging that this team is sh*t but you are in denial. Enjoy.

  107. Etzel Says:

    We are going to lose next week and you’ll all go back to calling for Leftwich to be fired.

  108. Buccernutter Says:

    Really dude? Moron? Idiot?

    You’re desperate dude. LOL

    Nobody with a solid understanding of the game and this team would ever agree with you. It’s rare I see someone as wrong as you are now on this site.

    You’ve been arguing to tank man. Nothing more to say here. You’ve done enough damage.

    etzel wants to build a winner by blowing things up and alienating the entire league by getting rid of a solid foundation and depending on a top 10 pick in 2020 like we haven’t had plenty of those.


  109. Dapostman Says:

    Joe Gibbs first year in Washington 1981.
    Start 0-5. Finish 8-8

    Second year strike year 1982
    finish 8-1. Win SB over Dolphins

    Third year 1983 lose SB to Raiders.

    No tanking needed.

  110. Etzel Says:

    Getting “ripped” by morons is a compliment.

  111. JimmyJack Says:

    We are building a winner you maroon.

    Your plan does more harm then good no matter if you wanna deny it or not.

    Yep tell Dungy to tank in 96 and we win no SBs ever. That’s your plan and it sucks

  112. Stevebobucsfan Says:

    Regardless of whatever players we have I think winning will encourage players a bit and we would get more out of them. I think if we can’t get rid of that losing atmosphere I think we will see more from the players. These are just my opinions and as I have said many times, opinions are like rear ends everybody has one

  113. Buccernutter Says:

    Ya dude, everyone around you is a moron.

    -says the dude that uses moron to insult people

  114. JimmyJack Says:

    I was so happy the Bucs won yesterday. I
    Love beating the Falcons. Anytime anywhere. You maroons begging for losses and not getting your little way is like the cherry on top!!!

    I thoroughly enjoy your misery hahahaha

    Go cry to Ma Ma about it hahahaha

  115. Etzel Says:

    You posted a comment about your wife’s butt that got deleted…. she’s probably hideous too btw.

    All I’m saying is:

    Tangible draft capital > Feeling good about ourselves and keeping the old washed up guys happy.

  116. Etzel Says:

    wait that was the other Florida inbred… can’t keep up with you all

  117. Buccernutter Says:


    HAHAHAHA you’re weird dude.

    improvement today > hopefully a great player that will solely turn around a franchise that just fired a coach after one year’s future.

    inbred now? wow.

  118. JimmyJack Says:

    Etzel is so upset that we win he is namecalling and bringing up posters wife’s now. He begged to lose and isn’t getting his way and is is miserable. I’m loving every minute of it!!!!

  119. JimmyJack Says:

    GO BUCS!! Pound the Jaguars on Sunday. I’ll be rooting dressed he’d to toe in red waving my Bucs pennant.

  120. MadMax Says:

    If the coaching and hard playing from the players keeps up like it did yesterday, that means something has clicked and finally, we just might have some mojo here. Go for it, I hope we win out!! That would be awesome. But ive felt that way before. Seen the team riding high off a win, then BAM, 2 or 3 losses in a row….Remember the Rams?

    Im all for winning. If somethings finally clicking, stay with it! But if all of a sudden we come out playing flat again the next 2 games, then i will enjoy a better draft position. We need talented players to replace some guys and ya’ll know that. Whose gonna replace Suh, JPP, and if we cant afford Barret? And we NEED a RT to replace Dotson….everyone here wants to win.

    This is a damned if you do damned if you dont argument.

  121. Etzel Says:

    You guys really think highly of the Falcons, I guess.

  122. Etzel Says:

    beating bad teams is not “improvement today” it’s just false positive reinforcement

  123. Etzel Says:

    reinforcement that these players/coaches/executives are acceptable (they aren’t)

  124. JimmyJack Says:

    The Falcons have a prolific offense and our defense just shut them down.

    If you don’t think that game resembles improvment then football don’t seem to be your thang. I suggest you pick a new sport to follow. Summer Olympics coming up…….Maybe synchronized swimming or gymnastics……They seem to suit you.

  125. Etzel Says:

    The Falcons are 19th in PPG…..

  126. Etzel Says:

    But I’m sure you were happy with Dirk Koetter, so I can see why you’d be all over ATL’s jock

  127. Etzel Says:

    Lemme tell you guys about all the success Lovie Smith had in this league… #proventrackrecord #screamingintothevoid

  128. JustBucNwin Says:

    Not like our GM will use it properly…I don’t put stock in our positions anymore.

  129. JimmyJack Says:

    Ouch 19th….Guess I spoke out my ass on that one.

    I’m still so happy though. I am happy we won and now you are adding to my happiness. You don’t even understand the level of enjoyment I am having on your behalf. I’m so happy you are miserable about our win right now.

    I’m wearing a coolaid smile that just won’t go away. You are stuck in my head and I can’t quit laughing.

  130. Buczilla Says:

    Jalen Hurts should be available at 12.

  131. Etzel Says:

    Well I did think that it was sad you believed in this team, but that pails in comparison to the thrill you are *apparently* getting out of my comments on an internet message board.

    Greetings from Washington, DC btw.

  132. Bucsfanman Says:

    Here’s a profound statement: LOSING for any reason other than you got beat IS a LOSER’s mentality.
    I like how all the prognosticators can predict whether the draft pick we lose for will be any better than the draft pick we end up with by trying to win. Don’t we have enough examples of highly touted draft picks who went on to do ZERO in the NFL? Didn’t we just CUT a #11 overall pick?!
    Winning goes beyond picking high in the draft.

  133. Etzel Says:

    We cut a #11 overall pick… when we traded back from #9. The ninth pick turned into Leonard Floyd, whom is not exactly is a world-beater, but is considerably better than VH3.

  134. Buccernutter Says:


    Ha etzel lost any merit he may have had near the top of this thread. Dude has no idea what he’s talking about.

    Let’s lose the rest of the year then if we have a losing record by november, we can just lose out every year. We can accumulate high picks but only try for half the year since it didn’t translate cuz we gave up after week 10 the preceding year to get a high draft pick!

    What excellent analysis and strategy! We’re all a bunch of inbred morons.

    Hello from NC btw.

  135. Etzel Says:

    Win the games that matter (there are none in 2019) and lose the ones that don’t. I am not saying the coaches/players should not try, I am saying that I am hoping they fail because succeeding against bad teams does nothing except f*ck up our draft pick. I am saying the front office needs to build for the future instead of trying to win now. Winning these last couple games is an aberration from who we really are, and grants nothing but false hope. (See 2016)

  136. JimmyJack Says:

    Yes they don’t even have a name to give us. It’s a draft slot for the sake of a slot. Meanwhile our greatest pick ever was not a top 10 and the greatest QB to live was a sixth rounder.

    Not to mention their plan means all our free agents will run from this organization. Godwin will be counting the days till he can get out of this tanking franchise and you might even get a Vea or White demand a trade. Tanking plan works in Madden with robots not with humans.

    Maybe if we were in a full rebuild it’s different……….But to tank away any good we got on the team now is the idea only a true maroon could come up with

    Good thing is none of it matters. Nobody’s tanking and we can enjoy our Bucs as they play their hearts out for our enjoyment!

    Go BUCS baby…..Now go cry to your Ma Ma pretzel

  137. Etzel Says:

    Yes you are an inbred moron because that is not what I said. Lose these games. Try again next season. Build for the future. Coaches and players should try, but I hope they fail because their discipline, talent, and overall strategy is not good enough to win anything (now)

  138. Etzel Says:

    Maybe they’ll have a parade down Dale Mabry after they beat the Jags, just for you.

  139. JimmyJack Says:

    I hope we miss a block…….This is how you watch a game? Do you hope they get injured as a result

    I’m so happy you aren’t getting what you want!!! I want victory so bad on Sunday. I can nearly taste it!!

    GO BUCS!!!

  140. JimmyJack Says:

    I won second place in the division badly…….BADLY.

  141. Etzel Says:

    I cheer for the young players to do well and I cheer for the L. (unintentional official Bucs nursery rhyme)

  142. JimmyJack Says:

    I want a winning home record. I want to sweep the Falcons. I want a 500 record in our division. I do not want to be a doormat any longer. I am tired of dwelling in the cellar. I want progression

  143. JimmyJack Says:

    Meaning less is only a matter of opinion. Don’t you never forget it

  144. Buccernutter Says:


    That is exactly what you said. You are slow, my dude. You just tried to call me out for not comprehending what you said while you simultaneously couldn’t comprehend what I said. SMH

    When everyone is clowning you, you need to reconsider who the “inbred moron” is.

    Your plan is a joke and your football logic is the worst I’ve seen. Keep trying dude.

  145. Bucsfanman Says:

    Anything less is uncivilized!

  146. Buccernutter Says:

    I want every win I can get. I will never compromise the season for hope next year. That’s laughably idiotic. Every player and coach will tell you the same thing.

    I got it etzel you’d rather rebuild and bank on the guy in the top 10 in 2020. Nobody is a sure thing. Draft is riddled with talent in every round. I can’t believe the amount of elite players that have drafted in recent memory.

    You sound like you should be cheering for Cincy at this point who has NO talent.

  147. Buccernutter Says:

    elite players that have fallen in the draft in recent memory**

  148. Buccernutter Says:

    etzel said he hopes we fail

    case closed. have a good day.

  149. JimmyJack Says:

    Any Bucs fan with a spine did not want to lose to the Falcons yesterday for the sixth time in a row. That game very much had meaning for any Bucs fan with pride!!!

    Now I’m hungry for the sweep!!! And I’ll be at Ray Jay cheering with all the other Bucs faithful. WE will enjoy every good play made by our Bucs and will savor each and every second. It will be a party and our swan song for this 2019 season…..Meanwhile you may sit on couch and cringe when we win. You may cry to your Ma Ma about it.

  150. Buccernutter Says:


    Not only do i want to win to piss off other team’s fans, I want to win to piss off our own now.

    It’s a bucs life.

  151. Etzel Says:

    Season is already compromised. We’ll see who wanted to beat the Falcons when Chase Young is in ATL having his way with the Bucs for the next decade plus.

    I’ll take living in my sad reality over getting my hopes up because we beat up one of the NFL’s worst teams.

  152. JimmyJack Says:

    You obvisously don’t understand big pictures so I’ll help.

    Us beating Atlanta especially a sweep very well might be the nail in the coffin of Quinn. And Quinn is a good HC. It will be an awful move for them and we might just make it happen with a season sweep.

    Then we can sit back and watch that team flounder while enhancing our own chances. And you think a few draft slots is going to save them……….Your a backwards thinker my man.

  153. orlbucfan Says:

    Etzel, you are a troll who slimed out from under some rock. Go slime and slither back under it! JHFCOAC, there are 5 games left!!!!!!!!!! Who gives a FF about the draft???????

  154. lambchop Says:

    Any player in the not for long league will want to win over the chance to draft high. Nobody wants to tank for their replacement.

    Unless you trade away players for draft picks, you play to win. No rookie on a team of losers is gonna do a dang thing to move the bar.

    Can you imagine how many high draft picks fizzled because they ended up on a sh:t team with a losing culture? There are probably so many players who could have been great. Just like in business, get the culture right and you can make players better. Losers, please look up that team playing in NE, you might understand that players don’t win championships, teams do.

  155. Etzel Says:

    False. Quinn is awful. The defense (he’s in charge of) is always bottom of the league. They were only successful in 2016 because of their offense and Kyle Shanahan. You’re reading WAY too into this. Stop worrying about other teams.

    I don’t know how you can’t be all about the draft! We’re Bucs fans! What else am I going to get excited about! I can’t pretend to be invested in this season like you guys!

  156. lambchop Says:

    Case in point: the Cleveland Browns. They have so many high draft picks, ballers on their team. But, the stench of losing just won’t leave.

    They look great on paper, that’s about it.

  157. Etzel Says:

    The Browns lack depth and their OL is awful. Also Freddy Kitchens isn’t good. Stop looking for some mythical supernatural reason teams are bad. Coaching and talent. That’s it. We’re lacking both.

  158. Etzel Says:

    Arians ain’t Belichick, jack. Probably best to not compare us (or anyone) to NE

  159. Etzel Says:

    Also Baker ain’t all that.

  160. JimmyJack Says:

    Actually as defined by Webster’s Sports dictionary you are not a fan of this team right now. Best case is you may be classified as a bandwagon fan.

    And Quinn is not in charge of the defense because he is a good head coach. The good ones are in change of the entire team. Because that’s their job.

  161. JimmyJack Says:

    At the end of the day those who advocate tanking ng for draft slots……especially Midway through a season…….are narrow minded.

    Yes, having a better draft slot is a benefit but to advocate tanking to get their must include a broader scope to factually consider it a benefit.

    Yet nobody who ever mentions tanking ever considers the pitfalls of tanking…….narrow minded.

    Do they ever consider the benefits of playing to win? No. Narrow minded.

  162. Etzel Says:

    Midway??? Next week is week 13, man. It’s almost December. The fat lady is warming up, my guy.

  163. lambchop Says:


    It doesn’t matter what you think. Players and coaches will not tank on purpose. So, why is anyone wasting their time on this argument? Only an owner like Jim Irsay after losing his aging star QB would do something like that. That turned out real well, didn’t it?

    So a team with a losing history is going to add on the fact that they’re spineless too? I doubt it.

    Be smart with the draft picks you have instead. If you’re out of the playoffs by Thanksgiving, it’s nobody’s fault but your own. Be a man, and show some heart. Don’t be a B, play all the games hard. A lot of jobs may depend on it.

  164. lambchop Says:


    Baker ain’t all that. Thank you for making my point for me. Belicheat had a horrible record to start. He wasn’t born a SB coach. But, he figured out what a lot of winning coaches did, teams win, players don’t.

  165. JimmyJack Says:

    Ya see talent is only part of it. In fact it’s not even the biggest part because 90% of the game is half mental.

    In sports confidence is real. You may deny it all you wish and think draft slots will overcome it but I’m here to tell you that your wrong.

    Advocating tanking means you don’t understand how important confidence is. Just because you do not understand something does not mean it isn’t real……..Sure I could tell you stories all day exemplifying how much confidence and hard work mean…….a few local recent stories like Cam Brate of Hump……..But I will not waste my time. I doubt you will ever get it. Not gonna try.

    We will just have to disagree eternally. You will just always have to be wrong without realizing it. Ha

  166. Pierce Says:

    Gotta stop this mentality of, if we’re playing meaningless football in November then lose out the rest of the year. No decent team has that mindset.

  167. Buccernutter Says:

    Still haven’t found a bucs fan, who is accustomed to losing, that agrees with this dude on the thread.

    Because he’s wrong and what’s wrong with this team.

  168. Allbuccedup Says:

    Gay keeps missing extra points Licht will draft another kicker at 12.

  169. Buccernutter Says:


  170. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    Who cares about the draft when your team sucks at it?

  171. Etzel Says:

    As a great man once said, would you rather have that meaningless win against the Saints in 2017 or would you rather have Quenton Nelson???

  172. Etzel Says:

    Quenton *freakin’* Nelson

  173. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    If you’d rather win in April than the regular season you are not a fan

  174. Buccernutter Says:

    What what a desperate cherry pick etzel. So desperate. Just so you know, the colts didn’t take for him.

  175. Buccernutter Says:


  176. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    No guarantee Licht drafts Quentin Nelson

    Stop inserting logic and great football knowledge into this franchise’s decision makers

  177. JimmyJack Says:

    Ahhh pretzel with another narrow mined comment.

    Drafts are never about one player it’s about a entire class. Looking at one player is simply peabrained. Especially when we got VitaV whose a ProBowler this year….Duh. Oh right we also had a premium pick that we traded and traded again. We actually had one of the top valuable draft position in that draft. Having that tradable asset that year quite literally blowing the whole tanking for draft slot idea to shreds.

    But sure take Quinton. I’m taking RoJo Carlton and Whitehead and Cappa away. Now you gotta reace all them with 3 picks in round 2,3,4……oh and you gotta get a DT since you don’t got Vea…….And you can have a extra pick this year to do it because we can’t afford to get a RB now in 2018 so you gotta get one in 2019. So now you can’t have Dean either.

    Oh and you still gotta take MJ Stewart since Licht is your GM so you got only 2 picks rounds 3-4 in 2018.

    See it’s a stupid make pretend game that only maroons bring up. But your narrow mind never thought about all that did you pretzel? Your only got a hard on about one player and never think about the ripple effect.

  178. unbelievable Says:

    ^ Exactly! We’ve seen Licht pass on better talent to take questionable players far too many times. A higher draft pick just makes it more disturbing.

    Lol Etzel, your logic is garbage. Give it up already.

  179. Buccernutter Says:

    We’ve witnessed the murder of eztel here today.

    Rip etzel

  180. JimmyJack Says:

    Pretzel don’t listen to unbelievable and don’t you never give up. Victory is sweet to me and taking pleasure in your misery is making it even sweeter. Your misery brings a smile to my face. To come hear and read all about it is even doubly sweet and exactly the entertain I seek when I come here. And when I have a bad day I will think about you. It will make me feel better about my own self.

    The sheer joy you have brought me is priceless. Keep it up. And GO BUCS baby!!!

  181. stpetebucsfan Says:


    All the debate about individual players is incredibly boring because it’s meaningless and misleading.

    Here is where your mind is playing tricks on you. It’s jumping from the general to the specific. That is to say that yeah “the draft” is where the team needs to build. Putting all the chips on ONE pick is a sucker’s bet. My dad was a bookie and I simply consider chance by statistics…individual judgements of GM and staffs can vary but in all the research I’ve one it shows that GMs come and go…hot for a period then cold.

    So here is what you wish to lose for Etzel…factually not emotionally

    Picks 1-5 a 75% success ratio

    The remainder of the first round is approximately a 50% success ratio.

    IE…it’s really not that different in where you select in the first round other than getting in the top five where even there its a crap shoot but you have better odds.

    So that’s my argument based on the views of a bookie’s kid.

    I had my eyes opened by El Bajito as well. I’ve agreed with everyone here who talks about learning HOW to win…building belief…culture whatever.

    But as El Bajito pointed out do we think ANY of these players want to lay down. That was one of the major highlights of yesterday IMO…these guys are still playing hard…they actually have character. Character on a Bucs team? Who’d thunk it?

  182. whaaatttsss uuuup Says:

    etzel you are one of the fools i was talking about ….. the draft IS overrated!! the patriots prove that every year!! consistency and good coaching matter more than what number you pick in the draft!! the pats can put anyone on that roster and make them look good!! technique and coaching!! …. of course that is where most the players come from you moron!! but we already have a bunch of those that you say suck!!.. so now you want to scrap them because they didn’t give you instant gratification and go get more inexperienced players?? you are really smart aint ya!!! yes everyone the number you draft at is over flipping rated!! the good teams prove it every single year!! it is not what spot you pick but how you pick!! he has to fit the system and your style of coaching!!! some of our best players have come from the 2nd and 3rd rounds!!!

  183. GrafikDetail.com Says:

    playing for the draft is for LOSERS!

  184. JimmyJack Says:

    St Pete I love them stats you have. Wish you would bring them up more often especially during draft season.

    Many Buc fans seem to know realize them stats or maybe they just ignore how unpredictable these college kids are.

    It’s my belief that since College Football is so closely followed and prevelant in Florida it skews the image and inflates the value Bucs fans have of College Players.

    Also loved your take on character and wanted to piggy back off that with a plea to fans……………..An open plea……..that is to resemble the character you wish for your team. If you don’t want a team of quitters then don’t quit on them. You want a strong team let’s start with ourselfs and be a strong fanbase. Sadly empty seats at Ray Jay show our loyalty is fickle.

    I cannot blame to fans too badly for some of the teams we have offered over the years but this year does bother me because it’s a new regime that didn’t do anything to deserve a lack of support.

    Of course I won’t change anybody’s mind who has their own reasons to lake support. Just wanted to was a finger here. Personally I will take it upon myself to help build the fanbase. Was gonna wait a few years but the team needs it so my son gets a Buc ticket for Christmas. Add a +1 to the fanbase. Next season I’ll let him bring a buddy. Build this fanbase 1 by 1. That’s how it’s done!!!

    GO BUCS!!!!

  185. Jameis Almighty! Says:

    Bucs look like super bowl contenders next year.

  186. Jameis Almighty! Says:

    Etzel has been taken to the cleaners! Are his footballs still attached?

  187. ElBajito43 Says:

    @Unbelievable idiot.

    Post your pic and $100 says I’m in better shape than you. But because I’m nice let’s just leave it here online, I am a Christian man and I don’t wanna commit a sin when your HoBag wife tries to Fock me my guy

    Lmao CHEETOS ??? Lmao I’m dead

    Guarantee I’m in the gym more than you F@ggot

  188. ElBajito43 Says:

    Unbelievable your the JERK who comes at other fans throwing insults AND LETS NOT FORGET RACIST COMMENTS AGAINST MY ETHNICITY

    for not having the same opinion as you…… people like you are so trash.

    You came at me first my guy Douchebag

  189. DalvinCookRules Says:

    Who is the last true impact player the Bucs drafted in the 1st round? I think you have to go all the way back to Mike Evans, and that is sad when you consider the talent that has come thru the draft the past 5 years relative to Bucs draft positions.

  190. Buccernutter Says:

    The last true impact player is most certainly Vita Vea.

    It’s going to be White very soon.

    We do fairly well in the first round, except for vh3…