Production > Intangibles
March 1st, 2019
Should heart trump production?
It seems one member of the Fourth Estate who covers the Bucs is shaking his head in disbelief over what he is reading coming out of Indianapolis the past few days.
Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager and coach Bucco Bruce Arians spent the good part of Wednesday talking with all sorts of media outlets, both from the Tampa Bay area and across the nation. And it seems the Bucs’ braintrust actually wants to keep players from a team that won a total of 10 games the past two years and has been moored in Buccaneers Cove (last place in the NFC South) for all but two seasons since Chucky was jettisoned in January 2009.
So jet-flyin’, kiss–stealin‘, data-analyzin’, Bucs-film-studyin’, limousine-ridin’ Thomas Bassinger of the Tampa Bay Times took to Twitter to vent.
The #Bucs have finished 5-11 in back-to-back seasons and in last place in seven of the past eight. They don’t have much salary cap space. But let’s bring everyone back to do it all over again. Because intangibles. pic.twitter.com/akqnyuMG93
— Thomas Bassinger (@tometrics) March 1, 2019
It’s hard to argue with anything Bassinger wrote, though Joe will quibble a bit about the “intangibles.” Joe does know this vague term drives the math guys nuts because they cannot slap a number on it.
However, as former Bucs coach Dirk Koetter famously said, the NFL is a production league. Produce or get out.
This is why Joe isn’t as optimistic as some that middle linebacker Kwon Alexander will be back. His intangibles are through the roof. Production? That’s a bit different.
Remember, Alexander called the plays on one of the worst defenses in NFL history. First, you shouldn’t be saying a good middle linebacker anchored one of the worst defenses a human being has ever witnessed.
Second, a defense should not improve when its starting middle linebacker is out injured.
Joe just can’t get past these two points. They are fishy as hell.
March 1st, 2019 at 12:01 pm
Communication
March 1st, 2019 at 12:03 pm
OH and can’t wait for JW speaking live on NFL Total Access. Can’t wait to hear the wisdom he’s gonna lay down.
March 1st, 2019 at 12:04 pm
We will probably learn that Kwon has been playing out of position……he’s really a Long Snapper…….
March 1st, 2019 at 12:05 pm
Thomas is right and so are you, Joe. Kwon Alexander should not be back on this team. The few splash plays and swagger should not trump the times where he has disappeared or the fact that he is injury prone.
March 1st, 2019 at 12:07 pm
Yeah Kwon’s inflated value is one of the most confusing phenomenon I’ve seen. It’s not just casual fans. Writers of other websites are pushing for $7 or $8M a year 4 year contracts.
1. He’s played 1 full season in 4 years. Has had suspension and ACL tear.
2. He’s never made an AP All pro or come close to it.
3. He’s never graded out as a top LB in any of his years per PFF.
4. The only probowl he made was as an alternate, which is a popularity contest anyway as PFF graded him poorly that year and not anywhere close to a top LB.
5. THe majority of our bad play on defense has been between LB/CB not being in the right place or making plays in the intermediate zone. He consistently gets roasted in coverage and takes bad angles compared to elite LBs.
I love Kwon and his story. I love the forced fumble plays he’s made and how he played in that Atlanta game. But this is delusional fan love to think this guy is worth anywhere near $10M a year.
Like Humphries – the $8M evaluation is literally about double what the real value is IMO
March 1st, 2019 at 12:16 pm
Didn’t kwon lead the league in solo tackles in 2016? Has he not been to the pro bowl? How has he not been productive?
Everyone else gets a pass for playing in Smith’s god awful and poorly constructed scheme but not Kwon? Look I’m all about not overpaying him especially coming off and injury? But that doesn’t explain the cognitive dissonance on display here…
March 1st, 2019 at 12:18 pm
Lord C.- It’s because he’s got “DAWG”!
That’s how desperate some of our fanbase is when we overlook lack of production for how “beastly” a player acts.
Kwon is, AT BEST, an average to below average MLB on ANY other team. It’s crazy to me how people fawn over this guy like he’s Ray Lewis or something! He CAN and should be replaced. We need to upgrade at every position, plain and simple.
March 1st, 2019 at 12:23 pm
jmarkbuc Says:
“OH and can’t wait for JW speaking live on NFL Total Access. Can’t wait to hear the wisdom he’s gonna lay down.”
——–
Like the wisdom you provide on your posts everyday?
I will take my chances with JW.
March 1st, 2019 at 12:45 pm
Your theory has all kinds of holes in it but I gues if your a writer you can say whatever you want no matter how wrong or stupid it sounds. Your logic isn’t even based on stats which is why you aren’t posting any stats to back up your claim he isn’t productive. Only thing that scares me about Kwon is in 4 seasons one full 16 game season. A lot of fake news flowing out of this site about Kwon and nothing but an opinion to back it up. Only site campaigning the negative spin about Kwon, no one thinks he deserves a blank check but come on the argument the defense got better under a better when he got injured under a better d coordinator is just stupid
March 1st, 2019 at 12:47 pm
Ah man now this is where I can’t agree with Joe or Thomas. Especially Joe. I just see so many articles about how players didn’t perform because of Smith’s defense yet Kwon doesnt get the same luxury. Kwon also spearheaded the #1 defense in the league for the ladder half of 2016. Led the league in tackles.
If coaching is such a fundamental part of the sport and Bruce says the squad is stacked with talent then shouldn’t these guys improve? Everyone except Kwon, right Joe?
Just think you guys are wrong about this one.
March 1st, 2019 at 12:50 pm
Agree 100 percent with Bassinger.
I can’t wait to see new blood in the middle of this D. If we bring back the same characters than Bruce is just cashing checks.
I want to see a new approach on the defensive side of the ball. If it is broke, fix it. That should be the mentality at One Buc. Otherwise we may as well get a long term lease on last place in the NFC South.
March 1st, 2019 at 12:53 pm
On the fence about Kwon.
Clearly not worth 10 he is asking
Something closer to 5-7 on one year prove it deal.
Not sure any team is gonna give huge $$$ or long term deal especially with all games he has missed over the years. And coming off serious injury. He has dawg.
However , He is terrible In coverage
March 1st, 2019 at 12:53 pm
Devin white
March 1st, 2019 at 12:57 pm
I agree with the above posters about how are we supposed to judge him in that awful defense that every offense in the league knew that we were in. Kwon has the tangibles, intangibles, and has produced before. He was inconsistent but our entire defense was inconsistent in that scheme, at least he showed flashes.
Also, I agree about the main concern with him is can he play a full 16?
I see him testing the market and it not being what he had hoped. I hope that’s the case and he brings a deal back to us in the 7-8M/yr range.
March 1st, 2019 at 12:59 pm
Not panicking OR buying this “everybody is coming back” talk, will wait to see what the roster looks like come September.
March 1st, 2019 at 12:59 pm
Kwon’s best season 2016 – still graded out at 77 per PFF- vs seeing guys like Bobby Wagner/Luke Keuchly/etc in the 90s.
March 1st, 2019 at 1:01 pm
BucsFire
Seriously?
I’m still trying to wrap my mind around when exactly you became the Arbiter of JoeBucsFan…
Oh, and brace yourself. It’s the off season. I post much, much more when it counts.
March 1st, 2019 at 1:04 pm
Hack into Licht’s roster file and put a “K” next to all the players on defense. He’ll be motivated to get rid of them then.
March 1st, 2019 at 1:06 pm
awshucks
the only thing less meaningless than ProBowls are free toaster days at the bank…
probowls have NOT MEANT a DAMN THING IN 20 YEARS… IT’S A POPULARITY CONTENT CROSSED WITH A CIRCUS…
kwon, cancer93, lvd and the rest of those defensive bums have been key contributors on some of the most embarrassing defensive units in NFL history not just bucs pathetic history…. why are you so emotionally attached to career losers. i can’t comprehend that
March 1st, 2019 at 1:07 pm
Licht is going to pay Kwon, and after 5 years of playing middle line backer- he will self scout and determine Kwon is best utilized as a long snapper.
March 1st, 2019 at 1:18 pm
Kwon is a safety. MJ Stewart is just a water boy. And if we’re talking production why is McIceCream still here?
March 1st, 2019 at 1:21 pm
LOL!!!!
Yeah, that’s after when Licht’s evaluates himself and decides he’s best utilized as the equipment manager.
March 1st, 2019 at 1:24 pm
Yeah, that’s after when Licht’s evaluates himself and decides he’s best utilized as the equipment manager.
bucs have a long history of out of place personal. if dungy the clown assumed his rightful place as facilities engineer imagine how many playoff wins and championships Sapp would have earned the bay area.
March 1st, 2019 at 1:29 pm
I encourage all of you to invest in the NFL game pass. They have an option called coaches film on it. Click on 2018, game one vs. the Saints. First drive of the saints about four plays including the touchdown they picked on Kwon. He looked flat, took bad angles, missed tackles, and got ran over on the touchdown. One play was a wheel route were Kwon keyed in on Brees to long and the running back was able to get wide open. A simple Checkdown turned into a big play because Kwon missed his assignment and then took a terrible angle and missed the tackle. Yes, this is one bad drive I’ve watched almost all of his plays in 2018 pre injury and he does make the occasional “great play”. Let’s be honest though, he’s just not that great of a middle linebacker as we all think. Compare his film to Luke’s over at Carolina. He doesn’t make these mistakes. We are just comfortable with what we know. I love Kwon, but it’s time to find a Mike worth 10M plus.
March 1st, 2019 at 1:44 pm
jmarkbuc Says:
“I’m still trying to wrap my mind around when exactly you became the Arbiter of JoeBucsFan…
Oh, and brace yourself. It’s the off season. I post much, much more when it counts.”
——-
Not trying to be an arbiter, and have no problem with the number of posts that you have. You have a right to post, and I have a right to react. I found the JW one annoying, and expressed it.
March 1st, 2019 at 1:45 pm
I don’t believe he’ll be back. Someone will pay the price he’s asking in FA, it just won’t be us. I love Kwon, just not as a signal caller on D. That clearly wasn’t working out. Too many missed games in his career. He does seem to get swallowed up in blocks. There are times when he is really good. At he end of the day, the best ability is “avail-ability” . Who knows if he loses a step off that ACL? What if he recovers a little slow and isn’t ready until week 8 or 10? Do you really want to roll the dice on them odds? We have a real bad track record with dice rolls
March 1st, 2019 at 1:49 pm
Pretty sure Kwons injury happened at same time Sitbacksmitty was replaced. So hard to judge by before n after. Having said that I wouldnt lose sleep if he werent resigned. And every jobs about production.
March 1st, 2019 at 1:50 pm
An out-of-this-world, HoF linebacker changes a defense, in a similar way that a QB of the same caliber changes an offense. You can just DO MORE.
Derrick Brooks. Ray Lewis. Brian Urlacher. Patrick Willis. Junior Seau.
And that’s not even including edge rushing LBs.
Kwon is decent, but he’s not one of the above.
March 1st, 2019 at 2:13 pm
I agree with Lord Cornelius.
IMO, Kwon Alexander is the most overrated Buc in a decade or more.
And all the chest-thumping and dyed hair won’t change that.
Wrapped around an occasional splash play is getting burned in coverage, blocked into Pasco on run plays, or overpursuing stretch plays. Maybe some enterprising restaurant can call that a Kwon Sammich…
IMO, he is in for a rude awakening on 3/13.
March 1st, 2019 at 2:40 pm
what?….lol….
in 2017 we went 5-11…..didnt he produce then?…didnt he make the pro bowl in 2017…..
he was running smitty awful defense…..it didnt matter if we had wagner, luke, and brooks at LB under smitty, we wouldve had the same results….
#REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
March 1st, 2019 at 2:41 pm
Kwon is average linebacker … gmc overrated DT Lavonte David average linebacker … we have some bad players on the defensive side of the ball
March 1st, 2019 at 2:42 pm
As the off-season progresses Kwon be ones the toughest decision within my plan. In fact I had to hire Kobe Faker for advice and his consultation. He persuaded me to let Kwon walk.
Then last night I talked him into letting us keep Kwon. He was pissed to give up his new DE, Lynch.
March 1st, 2019 at 3:04 pm
You guys kill me how you hold players responsible for terrible coaching. Did David not play better under Schiano. That’s just one example. Did the defense, as a whole, not improve because of a coaching change. There are some who think it was because Kwon got injured (Joe). Arians is practically saying, give me that same team and Ill do a hell of a lot better. I believe he will.
March 1st, 2019 at 3:05 pm
FIRE
JW is gonna have to work his way out of people making disparaging remarks..he’s earned it.
Hopefully he doesn’t say anything to weird..but he is JW, and he is prone to saying some funky stuff….
March 1st, 2019 at 3:08 pm
ptwalk
you people who refuse to hold players accountable for their failures are the ones that kill me… this roster is packed FULL of HEARTLESS career LOSERS aka fan favorites
March 1st, 2019 at 3:10 pm
jmarkbuc, Fair enough on him working his way out of it, man. I do hear you on that, and believe he will get there.
March 1st, 2019 at 3:14 pm
Demon
Tune into total access tonight ( I think)
March 1st, 2019 at 3:20 pm
So tmaxcon, you believe the coaching hasn’t been a problem?
March 1st, 2019 at 3:22 pm
Kwon getting a blank check, not so, however, everyone comparing a 4th round pick with Ray or Luke is just crazy, hasn’t played a full season but he has outplayed his 4th round salary. But, we are in a quandary because of other bad signinings that have us in cap space hades
March 1st, 2019 at 3:24 pm
jmark,
Will do, man. Thanks a lot for mentioning it. I had not heard.
March 1st, 2019 at 3:25 pm
If salary cap was not part of the equation Kwon is probably the first guy I’d want to see in Bowles defense.
The injury is my biggest problem at this point. He is not going to be ready. He tore his knee. That has to take a full year for most players.
I don’t know how the Bucs can manage if they gotta pay Kwon top dollar for IR. Once you take Kwon off the roster we are left with one starting LB! That’s scary!!!!!!!!!!
Kwon might have to be a cap casuality because Todd B likes to use 4 LBs……..If the Bucs can’t pay him there might be a team that has a strong core on defense and a ton of CAP room. Then they can stash him…………… Unfortunately with the Bucs we can’t afford to stash anybody on defense. We need all hands on deck. Lot of work to fix the worst defense to play the game.
March 1st, 2019 at 4:05 pm
BucDan
Sapp carried 55… sapp drove that train 55 is a back up without sapp
March 1st, 2019 at 4:21 pm
Ptwalk
Everything about the bucs has sucked for nearly two decades owners, front office coaches and heatless soft players led by cancer93. When you are the most embarrassing team in the league and owners of the worst winning percentage in nfl history no one gets a free pass
March 1st, 2019 at 4:44 pm
Kwon is average at best. Should be an OLB in 4-3 scheme but he cant tackle. PASS
March 1st, 2019 at 5:02 pm
55 is a HOF you everloving moron. You ever play the Lucky 555 lotto? There’s a reason that exists you moron.
March 1st, 2019 at 5:03 pm
Idiot*
March 1st, 2019 at 5:23 pm
JimmyJack Says:
March 1st, 2019 at 5:02 pm
55 is a HOF you everloving moron. You ever play the Lucky 555 lotto? There’s a reason that exists you moron.
55 is has been that hung on far to long and won a pathetic 5 playoff games in his underachieving career…. none without sapp… not too mention he ran the storm into the ground faster than you can big mac no cheese at your favorite drive thru… results and facts are not on your side. feel good stories don’t make one a winner….
March 1st, 2019 at 5:24 pm
jimmjack
your hof lost all credibility when it enshrined dungy the clown and his career losing playoff record….
March 1st, 2019 at 5:43 pm
BucDan
“Kwon is decent, but he’s not one of the above.”
He should of never been put in the MLB position at any point. I just heard Smitty got fired from his waterboy duties in a North Dakota pee-wee league.
March 1st, 2019 at 5:56 pm
Kwon flies to the ball on runs, but whiffing is too much of an issue. His pass coverage skills are nowhere near the guys I mentioned in my previous comment. Other posters here have also spoken to the same point regarding his pass coverage skills.
I love having the guy in the team, I was just sharing my opinion that I feel he is serviceable, but not irreplaceable.
March 1st, 2019 at 6:52 pm
@813bucboi … “he (Kwon) was running smitty awful defense.” Uuhh bucboi, Kwon was the man supposedly solidifying the middle of that awful defense. AND he was the signal caller, the guy who’s supposed to call adjustments based on what he’s seeing IN REAL TIME ON THE FIELD. Bucs got eaten alive more in the middle than anywhere else from what I saw. As the MLB, don’t you think that he bears at least some responsibility for the defense’s p-poor results? Game film says that he does.
And BTW, Kwon was an outside LB at LSU, and a pretty good one. Yet another instance where the Bucs drafted a player for the wrong position. Not only that, but Kwon came out of college too early IMO (just like Jameis did). Kwon came out after 3 seasons with the Tigers. In 2012 as a freshman, he played in 7 games with 2 starts (12 tackles). As a sophomore, he played in 13 games with 9 starts (65 tackles). Then as a junior he started all the games (92 tackles). In 3 years, Kwon started fewer games than Jameis did in 2 years at FSU. At 6’1″ & 227 lbs he was perfect for an outside LB, but too small for MLB in the NFL. Plus he had no experience there.
March 1st, 2019 at 7:12 pm
Tmax. Never said I loved Kwon or he’s a great player or even that he isn’t expendable/ replaceable. Just saying the argument the Joe’s are making that he hasn’t been productive is bogus.
Also you’re a literal R word if you honestly believe that Brooks isn’t a legendary caliber player who earned every thread of his hall of fame jacket. If you can watch his tape and think he is a back up tier player then you just flat out don’t know football.
March 1st, 2019 at 7:40 pm
djax is gone, grimes is gone, I believe McCoy will restructure or be gone, vinny curry is gone, jaquiez rodgers is gone , Unrein is gone, plenty more to come.
This is stupid
March 1st, 2019 at 7:54 pm
It is the coaching scheme bro’has. What we have had in the past obviously didn’t quite cut the mustard. Good coaches put NFL players in position to make plays….. some average players make the play and look like a star on one down and other downs elite players look average. What is the variable? The variable is that the Defensive Coordinator (whomever that is) calls out the perceived fit to the “Captain” of the defense. Middle Linebacker has a maximum of 2-3 seconds (if lucky) to make an audible for the defensive secondary to adjust for the change (other teams offense audible(s)). It is still a glorified chess game between the two coordinators that plan for hours on end. Lets come to the realization that going forward, if Kwon does stay for a descent price and Bowles puts Kwon in an opportunity to be able to call the correct fit then the defense should inmprove. Other than that, Devin White from LSU is my pick then slide Kwon next to him.
March 3rd, 2019 at 5:05 pm
Intangibles are for losers. Don’t sugar coat a lack of production. Intangibles are just excuses if it doesn’t lead to eventual production, mane!
If you can’t slap a number on it, it ain’t worth tracking.
Before someone says, but what about heart? If it doesn’t lead to tangible things you can put a number on, then what are you looking for? This is a physical sport bound by numbers (yards, catches, sacks, points).
Intangibles are temporary. It’s something you use for a guy drafted in the 4th round and down. Once they start to produce, it’s not an intangible any more.
March 7th, 2019 at 12:16 pm
You need to realize that Kwon DID NOT CALL THE PLAYS…he relayed the plays through the headset that were sent in from the defensive coordinator…. perhaps the worst defensive coordinator to ever work for the Bucs, Mike Smith. There’s a big difference… not to say that Kwon is great… but Mike Smith’s defensive playcalling and philosophy are/were atrocious.