Still Hard To Swallow
October 23rd, 2018
For a lot of reasons, Bucs coach Dirk Koetter has a reason to smile after beating the Brownies Sunday.
Joe cannot imagine what the hysteria would have been like if the Bucs fell to 2-4 with a four-game losing streak losing at home to the public urinal of the NFL known as the Cleveland Browns.
Not only would the fall-out long-term likely have been very bad, Koetter’s decision to run the clock out despite having two timeouts in his back pocket to attempt a long field goal — which missed — would have haunted Koetter for a long time.
In a first-reaction sort of column on FootballOutsiders.com, Andrew Potter couldn’t believe what he was seeing.
The bigger … I would say head-scratcher, but it doesn’t confuse me so much as infuriate me, is WHY are the Buccaneers settling for a field goal instead of still trying to advance the ball and score with 45 seconds left? It’s not like they have a long history of truly putrid kicking performance. Yes, it has been slightly better this year, but these are not remotely smart coaching decisions.
It’s beyond a head-scratcher, and while risking the ire of Koetter, Joe deems that loser football. And it damn near cost Koetter. Dearly.
Let’s see, you have the best set of receivers and tight ends in the game, a quarterback known for being clutch, 45 seconds on the clock and two timeouts with the ball on the Browns-24 and you don’t even try to get a shorter distance kick for your struggling kicker?
That’s beyond a brain fart.
On the surface, if Joe doesn’t know any better, it sure as hell smelled like Koetter doesn’t trust America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston.
That cannot be. If Koetter didn’t trust Jameis, he wouldn’t have had him drop back to throw 66 times.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:05 am
A win is a win… I’ll take it any way we can get it!
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:15 am
Joe – a bigger question is this: Early in the game, with the ball on the Buc’s own 1 yard line, why call two straight running plays, when the Browns almost stopped us for a safety on the first play, then did get a safety on play number 2? I was in the stands and could see that the Browns had all 11 players up on the line. A better call would have been a short rollout and pass to a tight end to get a little field position.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:18 am
In defense of Koetter, Winston has a propensity for turnovers and a 40 yard field goal should be near automatic. Should he have tried to get another 10 yards? Hindsight says yes. But Winston on the next drive fumbled a snap and then threw an interception. Why is that not discussed as part of Koetter’s decision?
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:21 am
I think Koetter and plenty of us here have “situational” trust in Jameis. He clearly has the talent but does he really see the field.
The pick that was intended for OJ but thrown without any air under it and easily picked off just amazed me on replay. The defender is clearly in great position to make a pick but Jameis throws it anyway. I’m honestly not sure how well JW sees the field.
So that’s Jameis…incredible darts threaded behind or between defenders for amazing gains…and then the stupid blind int that comes later to make the game exciting.
Of course Koetter was afraid…am I the ONLY person here who was also sweating another Jameis turnover? Really?
The kid has talent…he also has some major issues! No I’m not ready to trade him….YET…but we need to keep some reality in mind as we view the remaining ten games. JW could emerge a star…he could not emerge at all and just remain the same enigma we’ve come to know….brilliant offensive plays mixed with moronic interceptions and horrid game decisions.
Will the real Jameis Winston please finally step forward!
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:21 am
“Trust”, absolutely was the reason. And the bad part is that he trusted his *kicker* more than he trusted his QB!
Trust works both ways, Joe. If he didn’t trust his kicker (more), he wouldn’t have played into a kick-for-all-the-marbles scenario.
It’s just another part of the mess within this team.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:22 am
Koetter always settle for FGs. It’s his philosophy. I’m off the Koetter bandwagon and time for him to go. Sorry he just a offense coordinator. Nothing more than that. I’m done
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:23 am
he trusts the kicker more than the QB…who doesn’t/wouldn’t at this point lol
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:23 am
So Joe,not complaining about sacks anymore ?
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:25 am
Exactly. You also have the biggest chance of a turn over by pick or fumble. Or even sacks just like we saw. So what is the question again?
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:26 am
not the first time there has been terrible clock management, and a couple of runs to get closer would have been sufficient without the guts to take an end zone shot. It is loser football at it’s best. Also, someone said it best in regards to the offense. With Fitz we saw the true potential of the offense and the weapons. JaMISS or WinSTUNNED, take your name pick, has proven to be the guy holding them back. Will he ever hit DJAX? Not likely…
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:26 am
It’s actually really simple. Winston had fumbled, thrown a pic, and took bad sack in the second half. If you’ve watched JW long enough you recognize when he is in self-destruction mode. Coach sensed it and decided to risk a field goal rather than turn the ball over. It wasn’t a bad decision.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:28 am
Joe cant help it. Has to glorify his dream quarterback in every article.
Clutch quarterback = 6 interceptions and a fumble in 2 1/2 games? Ok Joe whatever.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:28 am
Definitely doesn’t trust Jameis…
It was either win with the kick or trust Jameis and he would probably turn it over again.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:29 am
Yeah , watching the game on TV was sickening . Going for it on fourth down was a gutsy call that payed off though … gotta give him his due .. but the time at the end of the game and two timeouts , and you have not a kicker you can count on ! Had that last FG been 49 yards it would not have bent in between the poles . Graciouslyit hooked in . Duffner saved Koetter a** this week ! Koetter is not head coach material . Allowing the safety early was pathetic . We had a 14 point lead and driving for more points at end of the first half the the bottom fell out and the second half turned into a dog fight . Gotta put teams away in this league .
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:29 am
Couldn’t agree more with CharlieB…..in the end you play the percentages. Too many bad things can happen in that situation…..fumble, int, sack (2/3 of which happened in OT btw). I understand point Joe/others make and it has logic but much like the 2 point conversion in the Giants game last night you play the %…..every time. Likewise, Quinn last night went with a 56 yarder to effectively end the game with a replacement kicker! That was gutsy obviously but I would not call what the bucs did loser football I would call it smart football. If you can’t trust your kicker to make a 40 yard FG than why do you even have a kicker?
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:32 am
Idk, based on the way the game was going Koetter probably decided it was too risky and thought the FG was safer.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:34 am
Absolutely nothing to do with Winston, that has been his moronic mentality since he got here, even the browns were going for the win with a rookie, dork is just a weak head coach. Glazers are watching while like the rest of us feel there is to much money invested in the offense to be this soft
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:38 am
And that is why your not there yet and never will be.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:39 am
I completely agree
I didn’t understand it at the time
Even if you have the best kicker in the league why not try to make it an easier kick with a few safe plays?
Bad coaching
First two plays of the game… bad coaching
But the Bucs won and that’s all that matters
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:44 am
Maybe there is something about Koetter not trusting him totally. It’s not like Jameis is all that proficient in the red zone, where he’s been prone on turning the ball over.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:46 am
Better yet. Instead of going for it, they take a two yard loss and move it to the right hash mark — WHEN YOUR KICKER HAS BEEN PUSHING IT RIGHT ALL GAME!!
Just idiotic. Dirk can pound sand.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:49 am
“a quarterback known for being clutch” Ya lost a little credibility there, Joe.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:50 am
One other comment. Jameis is not a perfect player but I think people need to think thru what we have vs what we don’t. The guy is good and has upside. He isn’t elite (e.g. Ryan,Brees,Brady, Rodgers) but there are 28 other teams that don’t have them either…..
The dude is 24 yo, can make all the throws, cares about football and I think will win a lot more games with his risk taking that he loses for us the fullness of time. I was as frustrated as anyone watching some of the bonehead plays but he has shown improvement in all key areas even while he remains a work in progress. I get why he might not be everyone’s cup of tea or preference and that’s fine but honestly….do people really believe you are better off finding a great QB in the draft?? What are %s on that? How many have really panned out so far since Jameis was drafted? Maybe you’d take Mahomes (but how much of that is Reid and a great rushing attack to help him). Darnold and Mayfield look promising (after 6 games only) so far but really how many others have panned out BETTER than him since his draft class?
For me I’d take Jameis and his odds of improving (assuming no more off the field crap) over the risk of any of the unknowns coming up in the draft in the next several years.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:50 am
Watching the Giants of NY, I feel better about our coaches because I have no idea of the play calling last night in the MNF game. I don’t normally watch other teams, but in hoping for a Falcon loss. 1 and goal inside the 3 and don’t give the ball to Saquon except on a jet sweep against the Falcons defense, you score a TD and if you kick the Xpoint u r only down 7 and you go for two, don’t get it now your team is down 8. Would love to hear sports talk radio in NY.
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:57 am
Then bench Winston. If Koetter’s has that little faith in him, he shouldn’t be on the field. Yeah, Joe wrote that.
(If Koetter truly didn’t trust Jameis, he wouldn’t have had him throwing at all at midfield in overtime. So Joe doesn’t buy the full lack of trust.)
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:58 am
The problem I have with this game
Why did they allow Cleveland to outscore them 21-7 in the 2nd half
At home
Their next 2 games are on the road
October 23rd, 2018 at 11:59 am
The definition of clutch has apparently been changed.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:00 pm
stpetebuc:
That’s baloney. Who led the team down to the 24-yard line, Ryan Griffin???
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:01 pm
When the complaint becomes a habit, even when it is won, it becomes irritating. Some who call themselves fans are nourished by senseless and ruthless criticism even when we win.
Criticizing when things go wrong makes sense, but when the criticism is turned around an art begins to smell bad and to annoy.
Anyone is right to criticize, but when critics even come when we win and at times play well, coming from three consecutive defeats do not speak well of us as fans, or even the tabloid media that some of them think they call themselves EXPERTS.
We as a fan base should enjoy a little bit more when we get a win!!!!!!
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:01 pm
Koetter was not calling the plays.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:01 pm
Admin, Jameis is on a 12 game tryout right now. Fitz is not coming back. I’m sure Licht has told him they are tied to the hip. Jameis put us in this Fitzuation, and now we watch…
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:04 pm
Chicago Chris,
Fully agree with your post about Jameis
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:05 pm
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to see JW3 was clearly off his game, especially in the second half. Had no spring in his step and looked beat down. It should have been an easy field goal from what, 40 yards? Hey Joe, aren’t you being a little harsh on the Browns with that public urinal statement? They look like a team on the rise to me.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:07 pm
Koetter does not coach to win, he coaches not to lose. That is why he fails when making these decisions. Going for it on 4th and 2 at midfield was a complete Anti-Koetter move and I loved the call.
Almost makes me forget he punted from his opponents 36 yard line.
Almost.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:10 pm
Funny how our Great coach praises barber but he is the worst starting back in the league and is making the same mistake he did with martin and plays Rodgers over jones this is a big mistake and these games will go like this until we can run the ball , Rodgers doesn’t scare anyone and is in only on passing downs /barber doesn’t scare anyone while the only player that can bust the big one is seldom used . This is your pick coach use him he might even save your job NOT .
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:11 pm
He took a bigger risk than that by going for it on fourth down at the 50. And allowed Jameies to pass.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:15 pm
On the surface, if Joe doesn’t know any better, it sure as hell smelled like Koetter doesn’t trust America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston.
I think more than normal, Koetter did not trust Jameis near the end of the Cleveland game and that came out a little in the press conference.
Remember despite Jameis showing clutch genes in other games, in this game his decision making should be questioned.
Jameis checked out of the play to worse plays at least three times in the coaching staff’s opinion.
1. The running play check call on the safety.
2. The check play call that led to the strip sack.
3. The 1st and 10 near the end of the 4th quarter when the Buc’s were in good field goal position and Jameis took the sack.
Koetter is happy to live with most of Jameis including that strong out throw to Jackson before the winning field goal; But yes Jameis mistakes also does have Koetter getting more conservative at times as well.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:29 pm
and if we don’t have a TO, we most likely lose the game because dirk tries to challenge a play….without the TO it would’ve cost us 15yards and set the browns up with decent field position….
but whatever, we won vs the browns….I don’t even think that slides with the 9ers or giants…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:29 pm
Here’s an idea you could run the ball!!!
You could have also run the ball in OT when you’re on your side of the 50. Why don’t we run? Ohhhh, bc you can’t run the ball but rather than critize the oline and/or rbs you guys want to constantly bash Winston.
If you had anyone else capable of doing a better job you would give them the ball but you don’t so……
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:36 pm
No oline help this game, we need a better run game (bell) I mean cmon why do we have to throw that many times for? If the oline played as well as they did the first two weeks Jameis would be throwing touchdowns left and right.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:39 pm
Joe
Do you read other websites. Another journalist said the same thing.
Implied that koetter trusted a non clutch kicker then a turnover machine Winston
Call him a goon too
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:40 pm
I don’t think he trusts Winston in that situation. That’s why you also see more conservative calls on 1st down now that Winston is back. Whether it’s right or wrong I feel that’s the reality.
@Joe
Koetter can’t bench Winston that decision is being made above his head.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:41 pm
“Who led the team down to the 24-yard line,”
Was it the same guy who took two brain dead sacks and tossed a rookie like int?
Nobody is saying Jameis doesn’t have talent…all we are saying is that he has yet to earn anybody’s trust.
So if you need a miracle play to win at the last second JW may seem appealing…if you need a QB who will not repeatedly turn it over and make every game close I’m not yet sure JW is our guy.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:41 pm
^^And Jameis rewarded him with a first down^^
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:44 pm
I get the idea of not passing in that situation. You risk a turnover or stopping the clock when you are in position to make a game winning FG.
However – at least run the ball every down up to 4th down to try and get as close as possible. A 35 yard kick vs 40 still makes a difference. Hell his kick might have made it if we were just a few yards closer
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:50 pm
He trusted his shaky kicker of his erratic QB play. I like Jameis but he is very sketchy with ball protection!
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:51 pm
*Over his erratic QB.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:51 pm
Jameis clutch? This isn’t college. In the nfl he’s consistently inconsistent
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:52 pm
I think we need a shot of fitz magic
I enjoyed the first two game’s much more.
Offense seemed amped up. We had the potential to kick ass, which I liked.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:57 pm
OMG! Here’s a crazy stat on JW 2018. Jameis has started 2.5 games out of 6 (less than half the game time as other QBs). He currently ranks 10th on INTs and 32nd on TDs.
October 23rd, 2018 at 12:58 pm
We Won. And thats all that counts. Koetter and our Bucs..Got Lucky. And sometimes..Luck counts! We were way overdue for some Luck. He almost missed that field goal. ..ALMOST! I medan I’m just hoping we did not see a MIRAGE. Our Bucs Defense actually played better than we’ve seen them play in a long long time. Lets see if it can continue or was it a..one time thing.
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:03 pm
A reliable source published this week that, of 29 QB’s haveing thrown 1000 passes since Jameis came into the league, Jameis has by far the most passes thrown past the 1st down marker (he is being asked to make the most risky throws and the most of em). Why? He’s had very little running game support and, of those 29 QB’s, his team, the Bucs, is last in defense.
Koetter keeps saying Jameis shouldn’t be turning it over. Well, stop putting the Bucs success all on him. It can’t work. Build a running game. Build a defense. Who knows what Jameis can do? He’s in an impossible to succeed situation. The probabilities of success he’s working with are far too low.
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:08 pm
Man, y’all would have been crying if coach came out with 45 seconds left and he opted to throw 3 times trying to get in the endzone & Jameis threw a pic! You guys would have cried about how coach should have just kicked the 40 yard field goal to win it! I say you throw a high percentage pass to get closer and you throw one to the zone after that, if it’s not there you throw it away and kick..
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:11 pm
Please stop with the ‘Start Fitz’ calls. Barring an injury to Winston, it is *not* going to happen. It can’t. There is too much at stake, and the Buccaneer organization have yet to decide if Winston is the future. They will need (at least) the rest of this season. And if they pick up his 5th year, instead of negotiating, then it means they *still* are not sure (a whole new can of worms if this happens). Any way you slice it, all the pieces still point to the organization being ‘forced’ to start Winston. Cheer him, or boo him, he’s our QB until the Bucs decide otherwise.
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:18 pm
As far a Koetter trusting Winston, at the presser, Koetter was clearly upset about that sack when Winston ignored a called in play. Wonder if we’ll hear more about that, but I’m not holding my breath…
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:25 pm
Fitzpatrick has trouble with turnovers as well. Who else do they have, Ryan Griffin? He has no choice but to rely on a turnover prone QB to move the ball down the field. Once there and a reasonable chance to end the game, he took it. I get that it’s not popular, but it wasn’t indefensible. He also took a shot at a 59 yarder to win the game rather than playing to tie with a punt. That’s not a loser mentality.
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:30 pm
@Dooshlarue … “The definition of clutch has apparently been changed.” Was thinking exactly the same thing. Jameis is hardly the poster child for clutch performances Joe.
What’s getting humorous right now is that OUR Bucs are 3-3. The 3 games we won, we did it by out-scoring our opponents 102-91 (doesn’t exactly scream ‘Confidence in your defense’ does it). In the 3 games we lost, we got outscored 65-105. So on the season we’ve been out-scored 167-196. Projected over a 16-game season, we’d have an 8-8 record, with the Bucs scoring 445 points, but allowing 523 points. I might be wrong, but that doesn’t scream an 8-8 record to me (I MIGHT buy 6-10 but that’s about it).
It all comes down to CONFIDENCE IMO, and right now I don’t think that Bucs fan have any in this team in general. Little confidence in the defense for sure, but also little confidence in these coaches, in Jameis, in this OLine. Our offense has to be our strength this season, or we’re in deep trouble. It stunk up the field for the first half against Pittsburgh, then rebounded in the second half. It stunk up the field for the entire game against Chicago’s defense, and came pretty close to doing the same thing against the lowly Bears.
Bucs defense played ABOVE its potential by ONLY allowing Browns to score 23 points. Bucs offense played WAY BELOW its potential by ONLY scoring 26 points against the Browns (especially since it took a 59 yd FG to get to 26 pts).
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:38 pm
Erratic QB + Erratic Kicker + Bad coaching + horrible defense = 5-11 and hopefully a clean house.
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:40 pm
For the crowd who says play the percentages. Based on that game Jameis threw 2 pics in 66 drop backs. That is 3% of his passes. You guys really think our kicker misses less than 3% of his tries? The play is to advance the ball. Make it as easy for him as possible…Funny thing is they moved it to the same hash he missed from.
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:41 pm
Its simple, he does not trust Winston
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:44 pm
The Aints just traded a 2019 4th rd pick and a 2020 7th rd pick for Eli Apple. Are you kidding me? Apple hasn’t set the world on fire but that’s a steal for this kid’s potential. Why is it we stand pat knowing we need serious help particularly in the secondary?
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:50 pm
People forget that Koetter went for it on fourth and one from mid-field. We saved a possession that ended in a touchdown. It’s a totally different game without that touchdown.
I agree with Joe more on the punt return in overtime. How could DJax not be back there with a chance to do a Vanover, a career highlight play? I think DJax beats the defender that tackles Humphries for a 7 yard loss and maybe goes all the way.
The field goal is less of thing. We did run one play, got nowhere. If you’re in field goal range and drop back, you risk a holding call, interception or sack. I’m not sure the odds of kicking a 30ish yard field goal instead of a 40 yard one from the kicker’s preferred spot on the right hash, but the difference is not as much as your chance of a mess-up.
Finally, Koetter made a doubly gutsy call that few of us would have made to kick the 58 yarder. Punt and the best we can reasonably hope for is a tie. Go for it and you’re odds on to lose. Of course, if we miss the kick we’re odds on to lose. Still, we were odds on to lose after Jameis’ second interception until Nassib got the game saving sack that took the Browns out of field goal range.
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:50 pm
Eli Apple has played good this season
And he’s only 23
Turned 23 in August
Good trade by the Saints
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:50 pm
saints just got a little stronger by trading for eli apple……wtf are you doing licht!!!!!!!
call gruden up and trade a 3rd for gabe Jackson or kelechi osemele!!!!!……then call JAX and trade a 5th for dante fowler!!!!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:52 pm
The game between the Bucs and Browns were a game between 2 bad Head Coaches.
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:53 pm
Historically Jameis has been super “clutch” if you define “clutch” by how he plays in the last few minutes of close games and doing what is needed for the W.
Way more often than not he puts together a game winning FG or TD drive. He had 3 GW drives robbed by the D in 2017 alone between the Bills/Packers/Panthers for example. Took the lead towards the end of the game in all of those.
Hell Atlanta was almost another one this year if we maybe call some better plays or execute that weird trick play; and that was with an unrealistic amount of time to expect a TD drive lol.
The only end of game situation he sh1t the bed that I can recall; was against the Rams a few years ago early in the season when we needed a TD and he came up short.
He has sh** the bed in a lot of games; but it doesn’t typically happen when it’s a 1 score game with a few minutes left. For whatever reason he seems to thrive in those situations
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:53 pm
There is not a unit on this team that you can trust…. And that’s on the coach
October 23rd, 2018 at 1:54 pm
And why exactly would you run it on every down? Chance for Barber, RoJo, Jameis to fumble? Ya another great idea. The coach is not as stupid as you think he is. He knows exactly what we have just as most of us do. When it comes to crunch time the mistakes happen. Period.
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:00 pm
Coach K didn’t want to turn the ball over again… JW had just done that due to a WR running the wrong route that interfered with the play. Does this guy watch football, or just write ignorant statements like, “these are not remotely smart coaching decisions.”
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:02 pm
Two weeks in a roll with head scratchers for calls. Last week he approved a trick play to end the game. How about throwing at 21 yard pass to Evans or Howard or a rate or even Godwin. SMH
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:02 pm
I mean what is Licht doing? Seems like a great deal for apple and pair him with his running mate from OSU this is an instant upgrade to a team that does teh right moves to win playoff games
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:07 pm
Lakeland & lamarcus
I agree…..
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:10 pm
@Chicagochris
“The dude is 24 yo, can make all the throws, cares about football and I think will win a lot more games with his risk taking that he loses for us the fullness of time.”
——————————-
There’s a lot to unpack in just that one sentence of your post.
I think Mahomes is proving that the “still young” argument is moot.That and JW has been doing these crazy things (on and off the field) since college.
Can he make all the throws? Lots of downfield misses that aren’t really close, most of the time.(still)
Lots of what I like to call Hospital balls (still), that are gonna get someone hurt.
Lots of balls that require a contortionist (still) or that take the receiver straight to the ground.
Does he care about football? I would say yes, but ignoring play calls will catch up to you eventually.
He’s in his fourth year and his win loss record would indicate that he may not necessarily win more than he loses with the “risk taking”.
A run game and Defense would definitely help, but his INT’s are rookie year stuff.. just really bad decisions, that’s not on the D or the run game
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:13 pm
Once we are out of the playoff hunt RG4 will be our QB in December or earlier.
We will be in “draft” mode.
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:19 pm
Bucs need to trade for S Karl Joseph of Raiders and/or LB Hasson Riddick of Arizona. Both teams are looking to trade these players.
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:21 pm
Jmark, agree with all you said and adding in mahomes, wentz, goff and add Tua, he isnt near them in terms of touch and lack of mistakes, I just cannot comprehend how he CANNOT complete that deep ball EVER to desean? DJax is WIDE open always on the deep 9 route or the post or seam or whatever and he cant hit him, I really wish he did or could, and it seems as though he has trouble hitting djax on air in practice? The ignoring play call would seem like an immediate benching unless some radio error?
ESPN just said bucs should be trading for lesean mccoy ASAP
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:24 pm
Jmark
Would you like to discuss the pass to djax in the end zone? The pass to OJ in the 4th, how about the passes to ME and Hump who both got hit in the hands?
Lmk when we get Hill or Hunt are on our team!
Who passes 62 times in a game? Who passes in OT when you have the ball on your own 46 yard line? A team who can’t run the ball at all so the lean on their best player and set him up for failure!
Oh yea who’s our leading rusher on Sunday? Lmao. Smh.
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:35 pm
That’s what she said. And yes Dirk is a genius HC, in the peewee league. These arent the first time he is making these decisions. Nor are they the last.
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:37 pm
Dusty
Not sure if you seen the end of the eagles game but Wentz fumbles the ball to lose the game. The play prior to the fumble Wentz three an INT to Eric Reid that was called back. Ijs. Smh.
October 23rd, 2018 at 2:48 pm
Baloney. Koetter was being too conservative and had nothing to do with Jameis. Why? Because you can still run the damn ball and use your timeouts. Even a draw play either to the RB or Jameis on a keeper.
October 23rd, 2018 at 3:05 pm
Here’s the info Harrison put out on the bucs, at nfl site on his power rankings
The Bucs won on a last second long field goal. Read that line again, because I can guaran-damn-tee you it’s the only time that’s been written in Tampa’s space in the Power Rankings over the last five years. After clunking an extra point and extremely makeable 40-yarder, Chandler Catanzaro put some modern english on the 59-yard game-winner against the Browns. The make took Jameis Winstonoff the hook after Winston telegraphed a perfect interception into Jamie Collins’ belly, then held the ball for 95 seconds in OT when Tampa Bay could ill-afford a sack. Catanzaro also rescued head coach Dirk Koetter, who pulled off the rare feat of icing his own kicker by throwing a challenge flag in overtime right before the kick, which results in a forced timeout. You see, coaches can’t challenge in OT. Koetter should probably know that rule. Never mind.
Yes the idiot iced his own kicker after playing for such ill advised kick. And we have to watch this guy make these decisions Glazers?
October 23rd, 2018 at 3:18 pm
@Seminole Bill-
I told my wife we were going to try to run and they would get a safety, before we had even lined up on the 1st down.
Those plays are just so obvious, and you can’t run obvious plays like that when your offensive line simply can’t run block.
October 23rd, 2018 at 3:35 pm
Criticism about the decision to run out the clock and kick the 40 yard FG for the win only exists because the kicker blew the kick.
Let me give you an analogy Joe because I know at least one of you plays poker from past references.
Joe is sitting on the button dealt King, Queen suited – likes his hand and opens for a 3X the blind raise as action has been folded to the button….
The player just to Joe’s left (small blind) – who has been playing very tight the whole time Joe has been at the table makes a substantial raise. Big Blind folds so its back to Joe.
Joe puts his opponent on a likely big pair but calls anyway wanting to see the flop with such attractive hold cards.
The flop comes King, Three, King rainbow.
Joe’s opponent quickly shoves ALL IN.
At this point Joe is pretty sure his opponent is sitting on a pair of Aces and calls the very large bet knowing that only Ace-King or King-King is ahead of him – and if the guy does have Ace-Ace as Joe suspects – then Joe is a 93% favorite to win the hand as the opponent only has 2 outs at best.
Cards are flipped up and Joe’s three Kings are indeed way ahead of his opponents pair of pocket Aces.
The turn is a harmless Seven – then the river….
An ACE!!! #@!*&%#
Joe loses a bundle.
Should Joe be mad at himself for the way this hand resulted? Of course not. Joe made the right decision every step of the way. He got his $ in the pot with a 93% chance of winning.
Later Joe’s friend who was at the table and witnessed the horrible suck out gives Joe a hard time for losing that BIG pot. And Joe is like – “screw you dude – I was WAY ahead and made the right call and would do the same again in an instant and win that pot 9 times out of ten. I’ll take those odds every time”. Then Joe finds out later that his “friend” has been running his mouth to their mutual friends about that Big hand Joe lost at the casino saying that Joe should have made better decisions and that’s why he lost most of his $ the other night…
If its not obvious – in this analogy, Coach K is Joe and the part of the “friend” is being played by Joe.
Catanzaro is 36 of 39 lifetime from 40 yards and in. That’s 93% over his NFL career from that distance.
Long story short Joe – your criticism in this instance is unwarranted.
October 23rd, 2018 at 3:37 pm
It was god awful hot !!!! I can see why they had these brain farts I can see why Jameis threw a silly pick penalties …Heat affected everyone including fans
October 23rd, 2018 at 3:50 pm
All the above comments are reasonable. No one is totally right or totally wrong. Koetter seems to really have an issue managing time in key parts of games. Having 3 timeouts and 45 seconds before the half you have to try and score knowing the FG will be there. If its a matter of trust then don’t drop Jameis back, you can roll him out to the right and if theres a short throw make it, if not run it, if neither throw it away. There just isn’t much of a variety of plays in this offense. Lots of drop backs with jump balls. Godwin has the ability to break tackles more so than Evans or Jackson so why always throw the slants to him, how about throwing downfield to him, unlike Evans, who drops down after the catch, Godwin will run upfield. Instead of Humphries in the slot, let Jackson run those quick patterns, he can get open and if he catches it and someone misses a tackle, he’s a rocket. I don’t know about Koetter, he isn’t aggressive enough for a young team with tons of skill players. I watched Atlanta’s offense last night and they really know how to move Julio around so he can get open. Bucs are just trying to win matchups instead of adapting plays to the defenses. Its a copycat league and if I’m trying to compete how about copying Andy Reid’s offense or Sean McVay’s or Bill Belichek’s or Sean Payton’s. These coaches know how to set up defenses and surprise them.
October 23rd, 2018 at 3:54 pm
But Koetter is such a nice guy and all.
October 23rd, 2018 at 4:05 pm
Dirk Koetter should never have been promoted to Head Coach
When the Bucs fired Lovie, they should have cleaned house
You made your bed, now lie in it
October 23rd, 2018 at 4:17 pm
Hard to trust a guy who runs a different play other than what was called to take a effortless sack
October 23rd, 2018 at 4:18 pm
Take everything out of the equation. The sometimes poor decision making, the lack of vision of the field throwing picks to LB’s who are just waiting for the pass, the amazing plays with his feet that he made, the sheer will to put the team on his back and carry us to some important scoring drives etc. Take all of that away and 1 fact remains, Jameis cannot hit the deep ball. He’s better at it with Mike Evans because he trusts Evans to go up and get the ball but he has zero touch on the deep balls to D Jax. Every other QB that has played with D Jax has hit this guy for huge plays including Fitz. Jameis cannot be a franchise QB without the ability to throw deep balls accurately. This is coming from a Jameis supporter and apologist but reality is reality. I watched a really awful game last night but when Matt Ryan was given the chance on deep passes, he hit them and that’s why the Falcons won that game. In fact, Matty Ice hit 2 in a row on their first TD drive. The hope was that the work that D Jax an Jameis do together and Jameis maturity as a QB would improve his deep ball accuracy. There were signs of hope in the preseason but so far this year, it just looks like the last few years with JW and deep balls. You can’t give him that giant contract extension if defenses can just load the box and make JW beat them deep, which he isn’t doing. It’s just too easy to defend us right now.
October 23rd, 2018 at 4:25 pm
@Pickgrin. Jeez I thought I write posts too long. By the way, you can’t say make a long story short when the story is already long. I’m just messing around. Actually, your analogy was very comparable. You can’t blame anybody but the kicker on that 40 yarder. He gets paid to hit those kicks. Thankfully he had his opportunity at redemption and cashed in.
October 23rd, 2018 at 4:51 pm
cmurda – LOL – instead of “long story short” – I should have said “in summation…”
I thought it was a great analogy.
Joe needs to stop being “the friend” on this one…
Koetter played the percentages that were heavily in his favor and Catanzaro blew it.
I say if anything, Koetter deserves extra Kudos for STILL having faith in his kicker in OT after the miss(es) and letting him take a fair swing at the 59 yarder…
Browns would have only needed to gain about 15 yards for their game winning FG try if Catanzaro had missed the last one…
October 23rd, 2018 at 4:59 pm
I get the impression that all the Jameis fanboys have never actually watched a good quarterback play. Yes, most if not all of them have good O-lines, but they don’t do the stupid things that our ADHD suffering, short attention span quarterback does. His talent, not his football sense is the only thing making him average. If his focus could only be as good as his passion he would be a superstar.
October 23rd, 2018 at 5:07 pm
Cmurda:
“Jameis cannot be a franchise QB without the ability to throw deep balls accurately.”
That is exactly right. How is that other Winston supporters can’t see that? Maybe those that aren’t happy with him leading the team are too hard on him because we expect too much out of a #1 pick? Maybe the fanboys are too easy on him because he was a #1 pick from FSU and refuse to take off their Jameis colored glasses? Either way he is average at best. But that’s ok with me. We can win some games with average.
October 23rd, 2018 at 5:33 pm
Would Brady be Brady?
Would Brees be Brees?
Would Ryan be Matty Ice?
Would Ben be Big Ben?
Would Philip Rivers be Philip Rivers?
If they couldn’t throw a deep ball?
October 23rd, 2018 at 6:25 pm
@SK. It’s a fact. The great QB’s and even the good ones don’t miss half of the throws that JW misses. I don’t know why he can’t figure out where to put the ball but it’s ether severely overthrown or severely underthrown. He makes every other throw so I don’t get it but if it doesn’t magically start to happen, I can’t justify the big contract. Again, I’m putting everything else aside because I can take the good with the bad except for those wide open deep ones. Too many points left on the field to excuse that. This is Year 4. If it doesn’t come together now, then he is what he is. I hate saying that but there is simply no justifying these missed deep shots.
October 23rd, 2018 at 6:38 pm
none of the fans trusted winston in that spot. i know i didnt. I did not want ANOTHER red zone turnover.
October 23rd, 2018 at 7:23 pm
First y’all say he need to give up on broken plays and just take the sack and not force the ball and when he do that y’all still got something to say. If we had a running game than we can play team ball on offence and not put every thing on a guy that been in the league for 4 years cause he is still learning. How wentz looking now that Philly don’t have the same running game like last year . That’s why Goff is looking good cause of Tod Girley. When you have a running game that’s what helps the quarterback. I will be happy to see Winston leave this poor franchise and this poor fan base. Please trade him ………..
October 23rd, 2018 at 7:38 pm
unbelievable Says:
October 23rd, 2018 at 3:18 pm
@Seminole Bill-
I told my wife we were going to try to run and they would get a safety, before we had even lined up on the 1st down.
Those plays are just so obvious, and you can’t run obvious plays like that when your offensive line simply can’t run block.
Just be aware that Jameis changed the play call before the safety.
October 23rd, 2018 at 7:54 pm
I think Winston changed the play to run behind marpet and smith rather than running behind Caleb Smith and Dotson. I don’t understand why Koetter ran the ball behind the right side of the line in the first place tbh
October 23rd, 2018 at 8:53 pm
Erratic and inconsistent fan base. Don’t know what they have till it’s gone. Then complain and talk about what could have been.
October 23rd, 2018 at 10:24 pm
He may have been protecting us from a Winston turnover!
October 24th, 2018 at 10:30 am
When dirt get his walking papers I hope joe gets his too
October 24th, 2018 at 1:46 pm
Pickgrin
Saw that on the WSOP, The Jesus looking dude with the cowboy hat..can’t remember his name…..Chris something maybe…
October 24th, 2018 at 1:48 pm
DB55
JW doesn’t miss every pass, but too many to be an overall #1 pick and FoF….
And he doesn’t miss to the other team at least twice a game.