Another Down Side Of “Off Position”

August 11th, 2018

Re-watching the Bucs-Dolphins game a couple of times, it’s interesting how rookie cornerback Carlton Davis seems much less comfortable giving a big cushion to receivers in Mike Smith’s off-position-loving defense.

Ryan Smith and Vernon Hargreaves appear very comfortable affording a massive cushion at the line of scrimmage Joe could share all kinds of screen shots and video.

This video below especially interested Joe because it illustrates a downside of a corner being so far off a receiver in the end zone. Watch Ryan Smith at left cornerback. This play might look a lot different if Smith (No. 29) isn’t starting six yards off the line of scrimmage.

This whole devotion to off coverage thing is starting to get further under Joe’s skin after Ronde Barber’s comments during the Thursday night broadcast.

27 Responses to “Another Down Side Of “Off Position””

  1. Duthsty Rhothdes Says:

    I hope that is not coached and its just dumb players, & if thats the case then the coaches need to be fired, cause thats DB 101 in man, one of them needs to be up in the WR face

  2. Buc believer Says:

    If we see soft coverage like that again this season all of us fans are going to go ballistic. More important though is the Glazers should go ballistic and fire Smiths arse

  3. kgh4life Says:

    I’m sure Mike Smith is aware of the pros and cons of playing off-coverage,however, why can’t he allow his DB’s to play up or back if the feel like? When he first came to Tampa Mike expressed that the wanted to put the players in the right position to succeed, playing predominately off-coverage is not doing that.

  4. Bucamania Says:

    Ryan Smith can’t play any type of coverage. Carlton will take that job.

  5. Season Is Over Says:

    Getting under your skin? The fans have been complaining about this since Lovie was here. Mike Smith may be the worst defensive coach the Bucs have ever had. Never once have I turned on the television and was glad he was coaching the defense.

  6. Steve in Mad Beach Says:

    You and me both Joe, this is driving me insane.

    Why does Hargreaves play better at nickel?

    Because he gets to play closer to the line of scrimmage!

    I’ve also noticed on more than one occasion how Ryan Smith doesn’t even attempt to shed blocks to make a play!

  7. BucEmUp Says:

    How long have I been beating this drum now? HOLY CRAP!

  8. BucEmUp Says:

    Just wait until it’s drew brees , Matt Ryan, cam Newton, Matthew Stafford, big ben….the list goes on. You thought JW liked liking his fingers for a W? These guys are going to be salivating at the mouth AGAIN waiting to face this coverage. My bowel movements could get open against this defense

  9. tnew Says:

    This was the case all of last season. This is part of the philosophical issue with the staff, top down.

    Defensively, they make the other team beat you, which by the time these players get to the NFL, they usually can.

    Offensively, they take what the defense gives them (“defense dictates where we go, on every play”)

    Any great athlete or team I’ve ever been a part of or researched takes their game to their opponent. I’m tired of this team being dictated to in pretty much every facet. The Bucs need to be the aggressors. If they get beaten by better play, I’m fine with it. Sitting back and waiting for the opposition to make a mistake or waiting to see what the opposition gives you… This I’m over.

  10. TOM Says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Ryan Smith doesn’t make the final 53

  11. Pickgrin Says:

    It was a well designed offensive play.

    Bucs showed off zone but in reality were manned up with receivers and just playing “off” man. Isaiah Johnson had the man coverage responsibility of the 3rd inside receiver. He was 7 yards off and fully committed to the inside. Receiver ran immediately outside behind other two receivers who ran forward and easily blocked their cb defenders already standing at the goal line…

    TD – easy peasy

  12. unbelievable Says:

    Looks like a Basic rub play / quick pass, it’s effective even when guys are up on the LOS, and especially so when they are playing off coverage.

  13. rrsrq Says:

    If he is on the los, it’s an illegal pick play, when you are so far off, it’s not. Living in the ATL it is hilarious, the only reason they say the Bucs will not win is not because of talent, it’s because of Smitty (and Dirk). I am just hoping the talent is more than enough that not even coaching can screw it up.

  14. TampaBayAllDay Says:

    Coach Mike “my scheme” Smith better tighten up. Your a bad ass reporter Joe call him out. I want to know if he’s seriously going to run the same scheme as last year. Looking like Robert Ayers was right. Buck for DC 2019

  15. BucEmUp Says:

    Players just need to go out there and do what they know works..Whats gonna happen they start winning and get benched??? I think not…..

  16. Willy D Buc Says:

    Playing off is easily exploited. This “strategy” will get Smith fired.
    Jam ’em at the line! Throw off their timing! Knock them off their route!! ….it’s legal!!!

  17. TampaBayAllDay Says:

    I think Koetter is ight as the head coach but we cant have 2 chill coaches on both side of the ball. Koetter can be chill Buck can be the enforcer. Buckner for DC 2019

  18. Defense Rules Says:

    Never seen so many ‘fans’ so down about winning. Don’t know what some of you would do without Scapegoat Smitty to bitch about. RESULTS ARE WHAT COUNT … that’s all. When the first team defense was in there (1st qtr) we gave up ONE FG. Pass rush wasn’t all that good; run defense wasn’t all that good either; and we were playing without a couple of regular starters on defense. Granted, it was just a preseason game and our defense is largely still trying to gel, BUT … they got the job done.

    I firmly believe that Smitty favors a ‘bend-don’t-break-defense’. The goal is to give up the LEAST POINTS, not the least yardage. If Smitty & his defensive coaches believe that playing off some is the best way to implement that strategy, then I’ll buy into it … PROVIDING that our defense gives up less points than our offense puts on the board (pretty much the criteria for WINNING).

    PERHAPS (just perhaps) Smitty is catering on the right side to how Brent Grimes plays on the left side (Brent usually gives lots of cushion it appears). Maybe the defense wouldn’t work if one outside CB pressed while Brent played back. I’m not smart enough to know the answer, but I hope that Smitty is.

    Before ‘fans’ (and media) bad-mouth Scapegoat Smitty too much, look at what the Bucs have done starting in 2009 when Raheem became HC:

    o 2009: POINTS ALLOWED: 400 – Ranking: 27 – Record: 3-13 – HC: Morris
    o 2010: POINTS ALLOWED: 318 – Ranking: 9 – Record: 10-6 – HC: Morris
    o 2011: POINTS ALLOWED: 494 – Ranking: 32 – Record: 4-12 – HC: Morris
    o 2012: POINTS ALLOWED: 394 – Ranking: 23 – Record: 7-9 – HC: Schiano
    o 2013: POINTS ALLOWED: 389 – Ranking: 21 – Record: 4-12 – HC: Schiano
    o 2014: POINTS ALLOWED: 410 – Ranking: 25 – Record: 2-14 – HC: Lovie
    o 2015: POINTS ALLOWED: 417 – Ranking: 26 – Record: 6-10 – HC: Lovie
    o 2016: POINTS ALLOWED: 369 – Ranking: 15 – Record: 9-7 – HC: Koetter
    o 2017: POINTS ALLOWED: 382 – Ranking: 22 – Record: 5-11 – HC: Koetter

    We did better (least points allowed) the last 2 years under Smitty than we did in all but one year since 2009. Bucs used to rank in the Top-10 every year while Monte was DC, largely because we had the horses on defense. And the Tampa-2 was largely a ‘bend-don’t-break defense’ that did a great job of capitalizing on opponents’ faux pas. Only 1 year in the past 10 have we ranked in the Top-10 … Until THIS year. Be patient; the results will be there now that Smitty has better talent to work with.

  19. JohnLynchBrokeMyBody47 Says:

    The handful of times they played press coverage the DBs made no effort whatsoever to jam the receivers at the line, which was disturbing, as well.

  20. BucEmUp Says:

    Defense rules I’m glad you are a strong believer that results are all that matters. I couldn’t agree with you more. Let’s take a good look at those results when they face a god NFL offense for 4 quarters. Nobody is complaining about the win, we just are not going to get excited about a defense in a preseason game against a bad team.

    I CAN’T WAIT to see what all of the Smitty supporters say by the end of the game week 1, week2 , week 3. What will the excuses be when the completion percentage is through the roof tops in the league ? Will it still be talent? No time to gel? Mike Smith’s boogers made his play cards stick together in a crucial moment?

    This can’t come soon enough. Proof will be in the stats and on the scoreboard..If these corners play off, then it should be off with his head and the fat contract that comes with it!!!

  21. BucEmUp Says:

    HOW ABOUT TIME OF POSSESION STATS TO GO WITH ALL THAT BS YOU JUST POSTED?Go ahead and post time of possession on offense (since the defense gives up the longest sustained drives of any team) and completion percentages. Let’s see how proud you are f this system and coach please post it I will be watching for it!!!!

  22. BucEmUp Says:

    John lynch I agree..While I am happier them playing closer and tighter, it would realy be nice to see them raw advantage of the five yards to get physical and throw off the timing on the short to intermediate passes

  23. BoJim Says:

    If it didn’t work last season then…………………….

  24. Jlbucs Says:

    Look at the qbs in our division. They will all pick us apart again on 5-10 yd routes. I would much rather take my chances pressing and forcing a lower percentage shot down the field than to consistently give up the high percentage underneath routes. Not to mention the injuries it subjects the corners to since we are asking them to be our leading tacklers.

    Even with our line getting pressure our cbs had no chance in off coverage.

  25. BigMacAttack Says:

    I agree and I like pressing to throw off timing routes. However the other receiver appears to block interfere with the defender before the pass gets there. Not sure anymore but possible flag.

  26. Stanglassman Says:

    Watching the replay of PSG1 Pitts vs Philly and can’t help but notice both teams have their cbs playing 8-10 yards back. Maybe the game has passed everyone by but JBF posters.

  27. Jlbucs Says:

    Stanglassman – how many points were scored in that game? I wouldn’t call that game the posterchild of strong defense. You kinda prove JBFs point.