Bucs May Need More Than “Help”
May 1st, 2018
Grading
You know, Joe applauds Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht for being bold in drafts.
The trade he pulled off with the Bills was a work of art. But Joe has noticed two words used too much when various writers are slapping draft grades on the Bucs for the 2018 draft. A few seem to have turned their attention to the two defensive backs selected in the second round, M.J. Stewart and Carlton Davis.
Joe has read too often “help” and “depth” used when referencing the rookie defensive backs.
Joe doesn’t think second round picks should be part-time players. They need to be starters.
Joe was motivated to write this after reading the Bucs’ draft grade from prickly Pete Prisco of CBS Sports, who was all giddy about Licht’s selections.
They needed players on defense and they landed a bunch of talented guys who can help, thanks in part to a trade down in the first round. Defensive tackle Vita Vea gives them much needed bulk up front and they took some secondary players who will help. I really like the pick of corner Carlton Davis in the third. Second-round pick Ronald Jones will be a star. Watch out for this team next year.
Prisco seems to grade on a curve. He didn’t give any team a D-grade or worse.
Of course, time will tell how good this draft was for the Bucs, say by the end of the 2020 season. (That season the Bucs are scheduled to play the Raiders in their new crib in Las Vegas. That seems like a no-brainer of a Stick Carrier road trip, yes?)
It would help if both Stewart and Carlton could become productive starters, not glorified camp meat and backups or part-time players for a pair of second round picks.
May 1st, 2018 at 12:04 am
I’ll be there 🙂 cheapest flight from Canada for sure to the US
May 1st, 2018 at 12:08 am
We have this conversation every off season after free agency and the draft. How Jason Licht nailed the draft and free agency, then they go stink the field during the season. And in December we’re discussing the upcoming draft, while other teams are discussing the playoffs.
I’m not sold on this crapshow
See me in December
May 1st, 2018 at 12:11 am
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May 1st, 2018 at 12:16 am
Vea isn’t a DT rotational player.
Let’s not mince words. That’s McCoy’s replacement. Mark my words: Mccoy has less than 24 games in pewter left. Vea will get his feet wet and McCoy will be jettisoned to a contender for draft picks.
May 1st, 2018 at 12:27 am
Joe, You should connect with the bucaholics especially with you repping fan retreat. Was just in Vegas for the draft and I can assure you we roll deep.
May 1st, 2018 at 12:42 am
Ricky:
Nothing against the Bucaholics. Great group and how the west coast Bucs fans turned out for the San Diego game a couple of years ago was so impressive. Took over the stadium.
Justin has a road trip to New Orleans for the first Stick Carriers road trip to open the season. Guessing Justin is going to have a road trip once a year now. In 2020, why not Vegas?
May 1st, 2018 at 12:49 am
with the Falcons drafting Oliver after the M.J. Stewart pick this draft will be very interesting to see play out.
May 1st, 2018 at 1:24 am
I think Davis will be our future #1 CB. If Stewart can hold down a slot position, which is close to a starter in today’s football, it will be just fine but it will be interesting to follow how MJ and Oliver perform over the next few season. I personally liked Oliver and hate that the falcons got him.
I have faith in VH3 to get it together and by next season he will be Grimes replacement. Giving us Davis and VH3 on the outside with MJ playing in the slot or potentially as a safety depending on how our 4th round pick does.
May 1st, 2018 at 1:38 am
Still pissed we didn’t get Isaiah Oliver. A stupid move by Licht.
May 1st, 2018 at 1:58 am
I believe more than a few writers said the Bucs are the team to watch last season. DON’T SAY THAT!!!!
May 1st, 2018 at 2:18 am
I’m saying it now The Six Time Pro-Bowler GMC is a GOD!!
May 1st, 2018 at 3:00 am
Buc trooper
Vea is a nose tackle.
McCoy is a 3 technique defensive.
Two very different positions.
Vea is agile for 345#, but he is Worlds away from Having the agility of a 3 technique.
Vea will be able to shut down the inside running game. Thats a great thing.
He wont get many sacks
Vita will be our Haloti Nagata, a 5 time all pro nose tackle.
May 1st, 2018 at 3:04 am
Bills beat writer Joe B. called it exactly: trade with Bucs, exact on terms. Don’t forget the trade back with NE which gave us the ammo to move up for oline help. In this draft there was so little drop off from 20-70, the two seconds were probably worth more than 22.
May 1st, 2018 at 3:50 am
Draft a DT and OT top priority in 2019. Pick up vet S (unless Whitehead shows up) and CB (unless VH3 really turns it around) in FA. GMC,Dotson,Grimes,Conte will all be over their age limit. Hopefully GMC can show up this year and we can get a nice trade value. He just cost too much for expensive season in 2019 signings. I think Donovan Smith isn’t worth what he will want and they will probably give him so pick up a top notch LT in FA and a good RT in the draft. NO ONE IS GETTING TO WINSTON, BARBER, OR JONES II. We are now deep at CB after this draft but when Grimes leaves we will need a vet to come in. Doesn’t have to be amazing, but decent with experience. Get a somewhat decent S in FA that doesn’t cost too much.
May 1st, 2018 at 3:54 am
Thank you Capt. Tim. Two different positions and if we are depending on Be a for sacks we are in trouble. His job will be to take double teams from McCoy, hold the line of scrimmage, and if the offense doubt him, use his strength to push the center into the QB. McCoy has no excuses about line help and the more I learn about the CBs we drafted, the more I like. Lock down, in ur face guys, and with the pressure we should get from our front four our LBs should be free to cause havoc.
May 1st, 2018 at 3:56 am
*We are now deep at CB after this draft but when Grimes leaves we will need a vet to come in. Doesn’t have to be amazing, but decent with experience.
Not starting this year, and probably gone because of age next year, but WE WANT MCLAIN! WE WANT MCLAIN!
May 1st, 2018 at 4:06 am
I wanna see that kid from Wisconsin blitzing. He is a beastly lightning bolt that gets sacks and TFL.
May 1st, 2018 at 4:47 am
@Joe … “Joe doesn’t think second round picks should be part-time players. They need to be starters.” Nailed it! Bucs had several starting holes going into this draft: RB, OG, CB & SS & also needed 1 more DT to create a viable rotation. Vea & Johnson are plug & play … presuming that they stay healthy, no reason why both won’t be key players come Sept.
Not quite so ‘simple’ with our new CBs though. Hard for a DT or RB to get ‘burned’ … they’re at the tip of the spear. Not so with the Secondary … they screw up coverage & it’s ‘Welcome to the Big Show rookie’ as super stars like Julio Jones blow past them for 7 points. IOW, their screw-ups are a LOT more visible IMO.
I like the POTENTIAL of the CBs we grabbed in this draft. Carlton Davis (Rnd 2) probably has the best chance of winning a starting gig IMO. My gut keeps saying that the Bucs drafted M.J. Stewart to be a nickel for now, but with an eye towards converting him to Safety in the future (nice size for a safety & loves to hit apparently). Jordan Whitehead’s also versatile & I could see him in the mix down the line as a Safety & Nickel CB (also apparently enjoys hitting). And the sleeper of this whole new Secondary group may well be Safety Godwin Igwebuike from Northwestern. Surprised that he wasn’t drafted, but I’m glad we got him as a UDFA.
May 1st, 2018 at 6:27 am
Don’t count out Grimes for one more year just yet…..he is an amazing athlete and most NFL players are not quick to retire….let’s see.
Let’s also see on the Stewart vs Oliver pick….Licht had his reasons….you know he and the scouts spent countless hours on CBs…..
And……what is wrong with “help”……that is exactly what we need and lots of it.
May 1st, 2018 at 6:58 am
“Watch out for this team next year”
Seems like that is said every year and yet we just finished picking in the top 10 again.
May 1st, 2018 at 7:09 am
I’m not holding my breath, but, we did improve…..on paper!
Lets put it together and curb-stomp some teams this year for a change!
May 1st, 2018 at 7:10 am
When was the last time you saw a DL ROOKIE/Vea come in and push out a DL Pro Bowler in GMC? I think some of you just hate 93 so much your blind.
May 1st, 2018 at 7:25 am
The Bucs scouts think MJ is better then Oliver and Davis. That’s why Licht picked him first. Let it play out.
As far a Lakeland goes, why are you here? All you do is complain. Why don’t you go be the official complainer for the Dolphins or something. The fact that we have so many good drafts yet not a lot of success is a testament to how bad our roster was prior to Licht.
May 1st, 2018 at 7:43 am
Basically he has no idea how any of our draft picks will play out or any other teams.
May 1st, 2018 at 7:48 am
I was down on the Stewart pick with Oliver still on the board….I am coming around on it, and from what I see on film, the kid can ball. Will he be a number one shutdown island corner? No, likely not. But a starter and possibly a probowl corner! I think Davis has the most upside and similar to Oliver with the arm length, height, and speed. Plus, he’s more physical. In time, I can see Davis becoming a shutdown corner type….man, wouldnt that be something? I cant recall the Buccs ever having a shutdown corner ala Revis, Lattimore, etc.
May 1st, 2018 at 8:11 am
Last year we all thought why draft Evans over the other bigger name safeties. I was in the group too. Took less then one game of Evans staring and I realized how smart Jason Licht is. Trust the pros. We took the best corners that were available, not the best corners to mike mayock.
May 1st, 2018 at 8:16 am
You know, the draft is as much about playing other teams picks, as it is making the right pick. Maybe the Bucs liked Oliver and Davis, but Davis more. They wanted 2 of those 3 corners either way. Maybe if they take Oliver, Davis would have been a Falcon. So the Stewart, know Davis would still be there at the next pick. I know, we can say he could have taken Davis first, but there is always a science to this stuff. If we had drafted Stewart and then Davis, would people have been happier.
May 1st, 2018 at 8:24 am
Pete Prisco is another example of how little the media regards the Bucs… not hard to look up our picks and write that Carlton Davis was our SECOND round pick, not third.
I’m looking forward to seeing how our picks progress this year, and what our team looks like as a whole.
May 1st, 2018 at 8:28 am
Until I see it on the field and in the win column, this is the same team with same coaches and the QB has to take major steps and the first 4 games of the year you need to go at a minimum 2-2 to have any chance for the division and making a statement that the bucs and winston have turned the corner
May 1st, 2018 at 8:51 am
Assuming Jameis is able to start the season…this team will surprise everyone and get off to a fast start…the talent has greatly improved and vet FA cast offs are not even factored in yet….
May 1st, 2018 at 9:01 am
LakeLand Says
“We have this conversation every off season after free agency and the draft. How Jason Licht nailed the draft and free agency, then they go stink the field during the season.”
O.J. Howard, Justin Evans, Chris Godwin, and Kendell Beckwith (2017) stunk the field????? Lakeland, come on, now.
In 2016 they got Vernon Hargreaves, Ryan Smith, Noah Spence, Caleb Benenoch, and Devante Bond who contribute as depth. 5 players who may not be starters, but are at least quality depth at their positions. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t we also need depth?
In 2015 we got Jameis Winston, Donovan Smith, Ali Marpet, and Kwon Alexander.
That’s 13 contributing players in three years, an average of more than 4 players per year. Show me other GMs that has done that in the draft.
We ended up with 8 picks in this draft: Vita Vea DT, Ronald Jones RB, M.J. Stewart DB, Carlton Davis CB, Alex Cappa T, Jordan Whitehead S, Justin Watson WR, Jack Cichy LB.
Obviously, Vita Vea will be a complete beast. Think Vince Wilfork. Will probably never be a sackmaster, but could still be one of the very best DTs around.
Ronald Jones will be a good enough RB for us. Maybe we struck gold there. Maybe He’ll be a solid RB behind a solid OL. Either way, he was a good pick.
M.J. Stewart DB, Carlton Davis CB, and Jordan Whitehead S could be the infusion of secondary this team needs…or at the very least, we’ll get 2-3 quality depth players hopefully. At best? Starters. Expect VHIII to come back strong and fight for a starting role though.
Alex Cappa is a steal. I cannot believe he was still on the board. With him, think Ali Marpet. He might spend time at guard first. The man is a mauler. Expect Him to start off as a backup to Sweezy…or starting in place of him.
Justin Watson will return punts and play on Special Teams to start off with…if he makes the team.
Jack Cichy LB? Well, honestly, I’m not sure why they picked a LB. Unless they want to try him as an edge rusher. He has the weight and height for it. However, injuries may be an issue. He missed the last 20 games. He says he is actually healthy now. He played very well before his injury. May not make the team, but he has a chance. Probably will be on practice squad. I think its a pretty safe bet he won’t be claimed on waivers, unless he shines in OTAs and TC.
May 1st, 2018 at 9:02 am
There draft grades are about as useless as mock drafts. It’s for fun and not meant to be taken seriously. There’s a reason they are writing about it and not doing it signed mark Dominic
May 1st, 2018 at 9:04 am
SOEbuc– are you a fan at all? Talking about the 2019 draft? How bout we play 2018 first? Numerous teams go from sub .500 to the playoffs in one year…
May 1st, 2018 at 9:32 am
Every draft We,,and the Buc media are raving about the draft we had. I can remember many here sayin Hargreaves was gonna be a Superstar..(yeah, right!)
Well here comes the Jhizz..the hype… once again you gullible Buc fans. I’m so Deeyham happy the pressure is on this coaching staff to deliver. On paper we are Superbowl champs. Now lets see how this HYPE transfer to the hash marks. I’ll remain..Cautiously..optimistic.
May 1st, 2018 at 10:23 am
Personally, Joe was in the “why draft Evans over a running back” camp.
With Alvin Kamara, the Bucs would have been in a wild card chase. Not saying they would have made it, but last year would not have been the debacle it became with a competent running back.
May 1st, 2018 at 10:41 am
Redblud Says:
May 1st, 2018 at 8:16 am
You know, the draft is as much about playing other teams picks, as it is making the right pick. Maybe the Bucs liked Oliver and Davis, but Davis more. They wanted 2 of those 3 corners either way. Maybe if they take Oliver, Davis would have been a Falcon. So the Stewart, know Davis would still be there at the next pick. I know, we can say he could have taken Davis first, but there is always a science to this stuff. If we had drafted Stewart and then Davis, would people have been happier.
——————–
Buccs had picks 53 and 56. The Stewart pick surprised most of us because he was the lowest rated corner (at that point and time in the draft). Oliver, the highest rated db (at that point and time) wasnt taken off the board until 58. Buccs traded the 56 and took the 64th pick, I believe. So, they thought one of those two would be there and were happy with either.
May 1st, 2018 at 10:48 am
some of yall trippin!!!!!!
MJ is here to be the starting slot CB…..davis is defiantly here to be a starting outside CB…..licht doesn’t want his former 1st round pick to be a slot CB!!!!…he wants him to take over for grimes…..
I don’t know why folks complaining about the pick…..the front 7 licht has built will make the DB’s better…..
my only concern is that MJ and davis played a lot of man press…..will smitty see the light?…..or will he stay in the dark?…time will tell
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!…..#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
May 1st, 2018 at 10:55 am
Joe, you really believe Alvin Kamara puts up those numbers on the Bucs? Quite frankly, Kamara is good but landed in the perfect offence. He’s not an elite talent at RB, he’s fortunate to be playing with HOF QB, with a GREAT complimentary back. It’s much more difficult to find a good safety versus a good running back. Thats a fact. Drafting Kamara last year just means out secondary would be even worse then it was. Plus Kareem Hunt is better. Go bucs
May 1st, 2018 at 11:01 am
Safe in saying Kamara would have been the best Bucs running back and a guy defenses would have had to adjust for. Offense wouldn’t have been near as one-dimensional with him.
May 1st, 2018 at 11:26 am
Lakeland… ever year the same Bucs bitterness. I suppose when the Bucs improve that you will be speechless.
May 1st, 2018 at 12:25 pm
Irk how anyone can call a player picked or passed on stupid by Mr Licht they haven’t even played a down in the nfl yet it seem crazy
May 1st, 2018 at 12:45 pm
I wonder if Prisco knows that Davis was chosen in the 2nd?