Carrots Are For Losers

July 31st, 2017

Head-shake-inducing comment from general manager Jason Licht

A truly great quote in recent Bucs history came in 2010, when young, brash and then-winning head coach Raheem Morris barked at a numbers question from St. Petersburg Times columnist Gary Shelton.

“Stats are for losers, so you keep looking at stats, we’ll keep looking at wins,” Raheem offered with a challenging tone and tough-guy stare.

The “stats are for losers” nugget became one of several rallying cries for that year’s 10-6 Bucs team.

That memory popped into Joe’s head last night after reading general manager Jason Licht give ESPN less-than-flattering comments about Doug Martin to ESPN over the weekend.

Licht thinks Martin, a thunderous disappointment last season — which Martin marred with a drug suspension and a league-worst 2.9-yards-per-carry average — might be a guy who needs a money motivator to perform to his capabilities in the NFL.

“Look, he has done everything we’ve asked him to do [this offseason], and he looks reminiscent of 2015 when he was playing for his contract,” Licht said of Martin. “He looks the same out there, mentally and physically. So he might be one of those guys that needs a carrot. And he’s got a pretty big carrot in front of him right now, because there’s no guarantees that he’s going to be here. And he knows that. We’ve talked to him, and he’s good with it. He goes, ‘I understand.’”

Just the fact Licht is thinking this, in additional to verbalizing it, makes Joe ill and even more ready for the team to wash its hands of Martin.

A carrot? Martin might need a carrot? Carrots are for losers, especially in Martin’s case.

The carrot, of course, represents the fact that Martin’s 2017 contract is no longer guaranteed because of his drug suspension. He has to be on the roster in Week 4 to get his cash.

But how about winning as the top carrot? Doesn’t that represent the DNA of the type of guys Licht and his staff work all year to find in the draft and in free agency?

A carrot, really?

Every year, Licht talks openly about how NFL Draft picks typically fail because of attitude, desire and personal problems, not because of their ability. Needing “a carrot” should mean you’re the wrong player for the Buccaneers led by America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston.

You want a winning culture? Eliminate the “carrot” players.

The Bucs rewarded Martin with a fat new contract last season, following offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter believing deeply in Martin for the 2015 season when few did. Hell, the Bucs devoted the northeast facade of the stadium to Martin’s image in 2016.

That’s massive respect and it should have been an ample carrot.

Yes, Joe lives in the real world and realizes money is a huge and reasonable motivator. But the NFL isn’t the real world. Martin, 28, already has earned more than $10 million through his NFL career. He should be set for life.

Joe would worry greatly about any wealthy veteran player who a GM says might need a carrot to be motivated. What happens when the carrot is eaten?

The Bucs are trying to win a Super Bowl and build a perennial contender inside a healthy team culture. Sure, some fans argue Martin is worth his weight in gold on the roster, even if it’s in an overpaid backup role this season, even being suspended the first three games.

However, those who believe that largely are ignoring last year’s film.

Erase Jacquizz Rodgers’ standout game in San Francisco (26 carries for 154 yards) and he still averaged 3.9 yards per carry for the season. Martin averaged was a full one yard less; he was dreadful through 144 caries.

This whole carrot comment was raw honesty from Licht. And it should let all fans know that Martin isn’t a great fit with this team.

53 Responses to “Carrots Are For Losers”

  1. BadHombre Says:

    My eyes seriously can’t roll any further back in my head. Get. Over. It.

  2. Broy34 Says:

    Joe as deep in knowledge as you guys are about all things relating bucs, you guys couldn’t be more off about the Martin situation. No gm will say he looks like he did in 2915(referencing the second most rushing yards behind AP) and then cut him. You act like it’s draft season and he’s throwing smoke screens. Doug Martin will 100% be on this team. Unless mcnichols becomes a star out of the gate (which im concluding isn’t happening). Doug when healthy and motivated is clearly the best back on the roster and they may “like” Peyton barber but clearly not that much or they wouldn’t have brought back jaquizz, wouldn’t keep Charles sims, wouldn’t keep and back Doug Martin, and wouldn’t have brought in Jeremy. They will enter week 4 with four running backs, Peyton barber being the odd one out. Personally I think it should be Charles sims that’s cut. We all know he can’t run and it’s pointless having a running back that can’t run up the gut. See mr. speedster demps. Jaquizz will be spelled by mcnichols to start the year, sims third down opportunities and then Peyton barber the third back. Then comes in Doug who will be the starter if quizz isn’t satisfactory. But he’ll be on the team week 4. Guaranteed

  3. Bucsfanman Says:

    I can see how you would draw that conclusion, however in all fairness, Martin was injured for a great deal of that and other seasons where he did not perform well.
    The comparisons to Quizz are ‘apples and oranges’. They are two completely different style runners with Quizz having a touch more speed. If we’re bringing up film, how often was Martin stuffed behind the LOS. Just being fair here Joe.
    If Martin NEEDS the carrot, I agree that it might be time to cut ties. I just think that the conclusion is too easily stated without giving weight to other factors.
    All in all, we were going to start looking for his replacement after this year anyway. Remember, barring a failed pee test, Martin would be the starting RB.

  4. Broy34 Says:

    BadHombre-exactly. As someone that watched tape eluded to, Doug was hit 41% of his carries behind the line. There’s a reason quizz had success and it’s because he instilled no fear into opposing coordinators and Martin had the box further stacked than quizz did. And quizz may be a better running back as of right now.

  5. Stud Says:

    If the Bucs truly intend to release Martin like Ira and the Joes keep saying then why didn’t Licht bring in any real threat to challenge Martin and the other backs or an equal level of player? And please elt’s not pretend an unproven rookie draft pick is equal or proven like a 2 time Pro Bowler.

    Whether that be drafting Cook or another back before the 5th or bringing in a free agent like Latavius Murray, or heck even AP. The in action of Licht tells me Martin is on this team after his suspension is completed. If I’m wrong then it shows Licht didn’t learn from his mistakes of not adding WR’s last off season and is setting up the run game to fail with his inaction. No matter how much Koetter loves Rodgers, Sims and the other backs not named Doug Martin, none have produced at his level and none strike fear into opposing defenses.

  6. Jor Mantegna Says:

    Joe,

    You bringing up a Raheem memory quote, reminded me of that time around mid season when Antonio Bryant was hurt the first few and took a few games to get his legs back and feel comfortable. I wish I could who it was, but….

    A reporter asked Raheem at his PC why Antonio’s numbers were down that season and he replied something along the lines of, “OF COURSE his numbers are down, he missed 3 games and hobbled through a few more, OF COURSE his numbers are going to be down”

    So funny!

  7. Joseph Sochet Says:

    Looking at how abysmal our running game became immediately after his injury, this is silly. The drug suspension was clearly his fault. Quizz did well initially when acquired, but we still ended up having running back by committee. The devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you don’t. Martin is consistent when healthy and eligible. The remainder are inconsistent at best, or of course unproven.

  8. stpetebucsfan Says:

    Stud

    McNichols was a BETTER BACK than Doug at BSU!!!! There is NO reason to assume he CAN’T do that with the Bucs.

    Where is all this freaking “Muscle Hamster” love coming from. I just do not get it!! So he had one year when the league had a down year for RB’s where he was second behind AP….ONE YEAR!!! He had one other year where he performed adequately. He had THREE YEARS WHERE HE SUCCCKKKED!!!

    Again from my post on Ira’s thread.

    DK as OC at Jax had teams that averaged a cumulative 3rd in the league in rushing over a five year period. His star RB was a Quizz sized pocket rocket Maurice Jones Drew. Drew led the league in rushing one year and posted a three year run…consecutive years where he averaged 20 carries per game and 4.5 yards per carry.

    DK has fond memories of what a pocket rocket did for him in Jax…he’s going to be a LOT more open minded about Quizz than some of the Martin lovers here.

    Three consecutive years! Martin has never even played Three years out of five.
    ONE freaking year…and another decent year and some of you guys act like Doug is Barry Sanders. Geeesh!

  9. Jolly Bucs Fan Says:

    Its a very good point joe. Carrot players are not a part pf the culture here.
    That being said, if this carrot for martin causes him to play like 2015, youd be out of your GD everloving mind to cut him. 2015 martin + this years weapons, JW in year 3, defense better than it’s been in years = superbowl no doubt.

    Now maybe we dont get 2015 Martin and thats a diff story

  10. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Man, Joe just went full tmaxipad in this article. So, what’s the fix, Joe? Obviously you wanted cook but he wasn’t drafted. What’s your fix with this Martin situation? Dump him and roll with Rodgers, sims, barber and the rookie? Go out and find someone else to compete? I hear dump Martin but what’s the next plan? What does GM Joe do?

  11. Jason Says:

    You Doug Martin fans make me sick. Done hearing people talk about 2015 and how he looks like he did in 2015. All Martin needs to do is say and do all the right things until his suspension is clear and he gets his money back. He is a injury prone substandard back who’s wasting a roster spot.

  12. Mike Says:

    Light is posturing publicly for a trade.

  13. Defense Rules Says:

    BadHombre, you hit the nail right on the head. Joe’s like a dog with a bone; he just can’t give it up. This whole thing is gonna play itself out in due time Joe; it really doesn’t matter what any of us think in the meantime. It’s the biggest non-story this preseason. Martin’s on the roster right now; Martin’s suspended for the first 3 games of this season; Martin may or may not return depending on a myriad of factors … NONE of which relate to Joe’s or Ira’s or my opinions of Martin. I really wish we could include pics in our replies Joe, because right now I’d love to add a pic of snarling pitbull as someone tries to take away his bone while there’s a nice juicy steak right next to it. Let the bone go … LOTS of other juicy stories just waiting to be told.

  14. Stanglassman Says:

    Good quote from Youngry. He could have developed into great coach but he lost his enforcer, discipline guy in Herm E. and got zero funds to work with from the Glaziers.

    Two most notable historic Bucs coach quotes got to be:
    McKay ask about his teams “Execution” and his reply, he was “all for it”.
    Sam Wyche “5 dash 1″quip that came back to haunt him when reporters ask about how good the team really was.

  15. The Other Side of the Coin Says:

    It all depends on how well Martin does in pre-season. The better he does, the more likely he stays.

  16. The Buc Realist Says:

    I disagree, He has to be “great” and be head and shoulders better than the rest!!!!!!! If their is not that big of difference between RB, then the Bucs will not put up with his Bullsh!t and do a trade/cut!!!!!! drug martin does not control his destiny as all other Running Backs are going to get a great shot to take the Job!!!!!!!!!!!

    And this is a huge story!!!! A Rb who got paid like an elite RB partied his way to injury, benching and suspension!!!!!!

  17. Vincente Says:

    Doug Martin isnt going anywhere. He is a BUC and as long as he puts in the work he will remain a BUC. I think he is going to have a great year this year.

  18. dooshlarue Says:

    I think an ice cream cone, soft-serve of course, would have been much more appropriate metaphor.

  19. Lord Cornelius Says:

    In general this quote doesn’t change my perception of Martin or how I believe Light views Martin; although I agree with the sentiment about carrots.

    Martin f&cked up last year after getting his deal. He’s now been bad 3 of his 5 years and by practical definitions is very unreliable. Light probably didn’t think he needed a carrot when he gave him that contact; but he probably realized it’s a possibility after what happened. That’s all that quote really tells me.

    Also – the run blocking was not worse for Martin the Rodgers. It was bad for everyone. Martin danced about as bad as Sims did at times last year. He was not decisive and not reading his blocks worth a sh1t. Same as his other 2 bad years.

    Martin at his very best is maybe a top 10ish type back. He’s never been a truly consistent elite back even in his best years when you go look at the game logs and see his stats. Week to week very boom or bust.

  20. Ben the Ga Buc Says:

    Mike Says:
    July 31st, 2017 at 10:53 am
    Light is posturing publicly for a trade.
    ——
    This!!! Licht is keeping his options open and SOMEONE will need an RB by week 4. Martin can probably be had for a 3rd rounder, mayyyybe a 2nd rounder if a team is desperate enough.

  21. The Buc Realist Says:

    @Ben the Ga Buc

    I agree, But I feel like I have heard that somewhere,,,,,,,, Oh Yea!!!!!

    OMG…. Its another “Realist Repost”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The Buc Realist Says:
    May 18th, 2017 at 4:07 pm
    All the cards are in the Bucs hand!!!!!! Head Coach Koetter will get a great look at the running back stable thru training camp, preseason and 3 games into the season!!!! If the backs look good then it is cut/trade option for drug martin!!!!! Or if they are not getting the job done or injuries then its drug martin waiting in the wings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No decision until the 12th hour, unless a trade partner comes knocking!!!!!!!!!

    Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    https://www.joebucsfan.com/2017/05/yet-to-be-determined/

  22. Lord Cornelius Says:

    We probably won’t get anything for Martin.

    I mean what would you trade for a 29 year old RB coming off a drug filled 2.9 YPC campaign who was also bad 2 of the prior 4 years?

    A conditional 7th rounder or something maybe at best?

  23. Bucsfanman Says:

    @LC- Yeah, and I think that’s why we won’t see them move him. He’s got no trade value.

  24. Nole on Sat- Bucc on Sun Says:

    I keep hearing “looks like 2015 version of DM”. Lets play the hypotheticals and imagine adding that guy to What we’ve addedin the off season. Woah😨.. Also Joe word is Athony Auclair has been catching everything aim at him and appeared to be more than a capable blocker today with the pads on. If you have the time keep an eye on him. My money says because of his blocking ability he makes this team.

  25. Stud Says:

    @St Pete-Assuming a unproven college player is going to produce like a 2 time Pro Bowl back is just not wise it’s like counting on V Jackson to come back fully healthy from a injury, or Sweezy to come back from a back problem and be a impactful player, or believing Sims can magically run between the tackles now.

    Looks at the weak teams Boise State Played against last year, McNichols put up great numbers against an awful class of opponents. But again if Licht is set on cutting Martin like the writers of this site believe why rely on Rodgers who was on the street last year, Barber another unproven player, Sims who can’t run between the tackles and is injury prone and wait until the 5th round to draft a back?

    The NFL draft is full of players who produced in college that can’t replicate that success in the NFL give me the proven player over an unknown anyday of the week.

  26. Nole on Sat- Bucc on Sun Says:

    We’re all caught up over our prize 1st rounder but I’m telling you all we have a hidden gem in Anthony Auclair.

  27. Nole on Sat- Bucc on Sun Says:

    Stud,McNichols didn’t make the schedule bro. He just played the games.

  28. Cobraboy Says:

    I think I just laughed up a lung.

    Seriously? Carrots?

  29. DBS Says:

    And they talk out of both sides of their mouths. So they waited until the 5th round to draft a running back? They did not pick one up in free agency. But they could not keep them healthy last year or have a good stable to rely on for a good ground game. So yes. They don’t know what they have and until the season starts don’t know what they have now.

  30. tnew Says:

    Another thing for losers is sending a message, just because you can.

    Two items.. I think this team is beyond the need to cut a player, just to set a tone. If anything, this could seriously blow up. If Martin, has truly comeback from a drug addiction, something many players have been around in their lives, has worked and is working as hard as he seems to and is earning the trust back with his team mates this could cause the players to lose faith in Licht. If Martin has done 100% of what the team (Licht) asks him, all the way through. Licht was to string him along then cut him even tho he has met the criteria that Licht laid out, that could start a wedge between management and players that we don’t have. If he slips up in anyway, then you cut him. Licht just says, we gave him all the trust and support we could but in the end he let every player on this team down. The ball is literally in Martin’s court and right now, his story is one the players could rally around.

    Maybe do this in 2015 after the Lovie years but now, no need. The tone is set. There are enough winners in this locker room and Martin is not counted on as a leader. The message is easy. Get with our program or you will be cut loose and good luck finding anyone to match your current contract. (next year this rhetoric changes unless he has a monster year)

    We are just going to have to disagree on this due to the timing and strategy of such a move.

  31. Mike Says:

    If you are going to trade him, do it now before he’s injured….package Aguayo and Martin for a 2nd!

  32. Cobraboy Says:

    Martin running with the #1’s is all you need to know what the coaching staff thinks of the guy.

    Unless you think this coaching staff is just playing mind games. If they are, indeed, playing mind games, they will lose the lockerroom quickly.

    Pundits blather and sideline QB for clicks and to fill blog space, but the coach’s jobs are on the line judged by W’s and L’s. BS gets in the way of their goals.

  33. bucs_365 Says:

    This is some stupid bullsh!t… I don’t care if he needs a carrot. He has a carrot this year. If that carrot can get him 1200+ yards, then let’s go to Costco and buy the biggest bag they have. Outside of that, I wish Joe would stop the foekin’ bellyaching about Doug Martin. Jeezus. Every guy is wired differently. Maybe when Doug keeps himself clean, he’s fine. If he’s turned the corner with his drug issue, then maybe no carrots are necessary. This is another case of Joe taking a comment by the organization and blowing it out of proportion. If he’s performing and keeping himself clean, then you’d just have to be an asshole to run him out of town.

  34. Mikadeemas Says:

    Uh, one of Martin’s pro bowls was as a rookie! Why not McNichols!? Cut the carrot! GO BUCS!!!

  35. Lord Cornelius Says:

    Sounds like all the RBs are getting chances with the 1s

    Seeing how the RBs look – primarily the rookie; is what I look forward to the most probably out of preseason.

    McNichols didn’t play any tough defenses for sure last year. Boise state only played 3 teams with defenses ranked in the top 50 (Utah State / BYU / Air Force); but in those games McNichols averaged 120 rushing yards / 60 receiving yards / and a TD per game

  36. gotbbucs Says:

    Even without the drug addiction issues and suspension, Martin should be on thin ice. Just his play on the field in his off years should be enough to wash their hands of him. He’s 28 years old and has alot of wear and tear, his best days are behind him.

  37. Mike Says:

    These guys always look bad to everyone until they look good to everyone.
    For instance, people are now excited to see Adrian Peterson with Drew Brees. I’m sure there would be a ton of buzz here if we had picked him up. He’d be the missing piece along with these other new weapons….people would be talking super bowl. I bet other teams fans would get pretty excited about Martin’s upside.
    Why not trade him to the Bengals where they take in wounded players….Him and Mixon sound pretty lethal as a tandem. How about the Raiders with him and Marshawn Lynch. Any team would be happy to have him. Rams w Gurley?

    Pompous management- WE THINK WE”VE ARRIVED, WE HAVE’NT MADE THE PLAYOFFS IN TEN YEARS

    Quarterback inconsistent, left tackle spotty,
    We are building but don’t have the luxury of cutting 2nd leading rushers in NFL.
    Get a grip.. Let’s see if our new center can play center….

    6-10

  38. stpetebucsfan Says:

    Excuse me…who did Boise State play when Doug was their RB? Could we at least have a comparison. Who did Boise State play when Ajayi played there.

    Boise State has been at the top of the 2nd tier teams since DK built up the program. They’ve NEVER faced an SEC/ACC/Big10 schedule.

    TRADING MARTIN

    What are you guys talking about. Can someone here construct ANY scenario where Martin has trade value? This is NOT about his ability but about his contract. Why would ANY team in the NFL trade for a player they know is going to get cut or be a feature back with his original team.

    How does this work? Let’s assume the positive. Let’s say Martin blows up in the pre season. First off…if he’s THAT good we’ll just pay the 5 million. IF we have someone as good or better and decide we’re going to part ways everybody will know that…why would they trade for a Free Agent which is what happens as soon as the Bucs say they are using their escape clause to bail on his contract.

    We either pay him his 5 million or he and his agent are free to negotiate with the other 31 teams.

    Seriously how does a trade work? Either Doug is a Buc or an FA. If we honor his contract for 5 million that means we NEED him and the Martin lovers can celebrate. The contract does NOT give us the right to renogiate..that is totally up to Doug and his agent. If they do not like our deal they are FA’s.

  39. Maze Says:

    The Martin hate flows strong through web pages in these parts

  40. Cobraboy Says:

    @stpetebucsfan: you are indeed correct. There is no “renegotiating” with Martin without him becoming a Free Agent.

    But Martin is also a “vested veteran” since he’s had 4 years in the league. That designation also enters into the equation, even in a trade.

    It gets complicated, but if Martin is on the roster on Week 4—his “first week”—I think under the CBA he can exercise a one-time option that guarantees his entire salary.

    So Martin is either on the roster Week 4 for the entire season, or he’s cut before Week 4.

    IMO, based on the high injury rate of RB’s in the NFL, the Bucs will keep him. Like Koetter has said, “You can’t have too many good football players.”

    Keep in mind that Martin is the ONLY RB on the roster that has started an entire season. Nobody knows if any of the other backs can.

    Too much depth is a good thing. And frankly, I don’t care how much ANY player makes. It’s not my money, and the Bucs are not in any cap trouble at all.

  41. stpetebucsfan Says:

    Cobra

    Thanks for that explanation.

    Maze

    I think it’s about 50-50 on this site. Some here have an irrational love for a player who produced on 40% of the time and totally betrayed his team in a year we might have reached the playoffs.

    I do not know Doug…seems like a really nice guy and a decent human who made a mistake. But Doug has made millions and I’m cool with him making millions somewhere else…or if we NEED him even us paying him 5 million.

    I get those who believe Doug is the superior player on the roster. There can certainly be an argument made for that. But we owe Doug nothing…I do not hate him or love him. If he’s the best player then pay him and play him. But it would be better for the Bucs if McNichols is the real deal and the next Martin simply due to salary and Dougs age. Not hate…just practicality.

  42. tmaxcon Says:

    martin is irrelevant to bucs future. hopefully he’ll just screw up sooner than later, after all, it’s inevitable. history proves he is unreliable and can not be counted. just a pathetic career loser. screw doug martin…. time for the molly chants and free booze flyers.

  43. Pickgrin Says:

    “Boise state only played 3 teams with defenses ranked in the top 50 (Utah State / BYU / Air Force); but in those games McNichols averaged 120 rushing yards / 60 receiving yards / and a TD per game”

    Good info Lord C. I knew Boise State’s schedule was not that tough but nice to hear the specifics about that. Sounds like JMac showed quite well when facing more talented defenses.

    You can only play who is on your schedule and McNichols was just flat out productive as hell at Boise State. (The new RB – U) 53 TDs in 25 games!!

    For those who are mathmatically challenged – that’s JMac averaging more than 2 TDs per game. Every game!

    McNichols was graded as the 2nd best pass protecting RB in this stellar class. His receiving #s mirror Christian McCaffrey’s almost exactly – except JMac had more receiving TDs. JMac also averaged over 1500 yds in each 12 game season and had twice as many rushing TDs as CMAC. TWICE AS MANY (43 vs 21). Smells like potential to me.

    Seems like the kid’s got what it takes to be a 3 down back when you look at those #s which were very consistent over a 2 year period.

    Don’t be surprised when the rookie 5th rounder comes out balling and earns some touches the very 1st week in Miami.

    Doug Martin will be retained as long as he continues to look good, stays healthy and agrees to a new contract that lowers his salary a bit and provides the Bucs contractual protection against further behavioral “incidents”.

    “You can’t have too many good football players” – “Doug Martin is a good football player” – Coach Dirk Koetter

  44. carry that mofostick Says:

    i hope Mcnichols wins the job, sick of the martin drama, we do not need it

  45. Fred E. Bucs Says:

    “You want a winning culture? Eliminate the “carrot” players.” Well, then you have no rabbits. Motivators (carrots…incentives) come in all types. For some it’s fame. Others it’s recognition. And for some it’s money. Still for some it’s mitigating mistakes. And finally, likely for all it’s a combination of the above or something else. That’s the case for Martin I think Jason is talking about. Not just money. But if it were, so what? He needs to play to be on this team, regardless of what the carrot(s) are. Three things Joe and fans know about Doug Martin: He’s motivated by money enough to play hard (2015), and he’s also succumbed to something he should not have (like his suspension reason). Of course, we also know from his rookie season he wanted to be the feature back and get recognition in the league–another carrot. What else can we learn: That he knows he messed up and wants to make it right (he said that very thing) and untarnish his image? A carrot? Who knows. I think so. I think the GM thinks so. It doesn’t matter if people believe him or not–but every indication is his team, including the GM, believe him. They are not going to hand him anything–not now, not before he earns it back, and the GM is certainly not going to tip his hand either way. Winners know the carrots and get them. Losers never do, and they starve. Carrots are for winners. Carrots are how you get winners to win. No one ever said Martin didn’t want to win.

  46. Alanbucsfan Says:

    Bugs Bunny, Bunny Rabbit from Capt Kangaroo and Rabbit from Winnie the Pooh ain’t got nothin’ on Doug Martin

  47. Fred E. Bucs Says:

    So anyone motivated by money…or any carrot…is a loser? Anyone who has gotten popped for drugs, DUI, or some other discipline problem doesn’t want to win? Probably a huge overgeneralization.

    Nothing incenses me more than when guys like Martin, Alexander, Talib, Akeem Spence, Freeman, Vincent Jackson, do dumb things that hurt their team and screws the fans who pay lots of money to see the best team on the field. But there are no absolutes, and as far as I can tell from what I have seen, Martin has learned his lesson and wants to redeem himself. You don’t just thow them all away. No doubt Martin would be gone NOW if the GM had any indication otherwise . Disappointed with him? Yes. Mad at him? Sure. But Martin is working his tail off now for sure…saw it again today. If it’s for $6 million or redemption or winning or all of the above…just perform.

    BTW, while somewhat of a clever statement, and personally a likable guy, Rah is no Socrates.

  48. Fred E. Bucs Says:

    @Pickgrin who said: “Doug Martin will be retained as long as he continues to look good, stays healthy and agrees to a new contract that lowers his salary a bit and provides the Bucs contractual protection against further behavioral “incidents”. “You can’t have too many good football players” – “Doug Martin is a good football player” – Coach Dirk Koetter

    On Martin, I agree with two of the three. I don’t think there is no need to restructure his contract as they’ve already sunk a big chunk of it last year. Do you make a guy who did everything else to clean up his act walk over a few million when you are trying to get to the playoffs? I’d not want to explain that one to the Glazers. You bet I hope McNichols burns it up. But as you mention, then they keep BOTH Martin and McNichols. And Rodgers. And either Barber or Sims. And I think it’s the former.

    Oh, and if Martin doesn’t perform AND/OR goes back to his forbidden ways…I’ll lead the way in calling from him to be cut. I just think he’s due, and don’t think he’ll stray. But what I think doesn’t matter…clearly his team is thinking that…so far.

  49. BucEmUp Says:

    I don’t see nay reason to cut him unless they are in cap trouble….which they’re not. I dunno….maybe they will offer him a new contract and if he accepts then great…if not then he goes.

    I will say Joe, I don’t see nay running back doing great on the Bucs last season. You know all the reasons I don’t have to list them all. It wasn’t an ideal situation for a rb in 2016 on the Bucs. Thats no excuse for Martin but Rodgers did a pretty damn good job all things considered and he seems to have done some significant conditioning during the offseason.

  50. Reach87 Says:

    Incentives in NFL contracts are common. Incentives can be seen as carrots. Nothing wrong with that motivation in the least if it improves production IMO.

  51. First Down Tampa Bay Says:

    Carrot or no carrots, Doug is still the best RB on this team.

  52. JimmyJack Says:

    Just because some fans aren’t comfortable with Quiz, Barber, Simms and a rookie as our only runners doesn’t mean we are head over heels about Martin. Some of us simply like our chances better if Doug stays clean and makes the team.

    I also 100% agree with what tnew said.

  53. JimmyJack Says:

    Gotta disagree with you reach. If only money motivates a player then you have to suffer through their 50%effort years when they are not due for the next payday. Same thing with incentives….. It’s not a winner ng brand of football to have a player(for example) lay down for the last two games because his incentive maybe out of reach.

    Sorry, IMO, there is something wrong with that if your goal is winning a title.