Get A Hold Of Yourselves!

September 15th, 2015
Leave Jameis alone!

Leave Jameis alone!

Joe just cannot believe after one half of bad football in his very first NFL game, in which he had to play catch-up (partly his own fault), Bucs fans are ready to shovel dirt in the face of America’s Quarterback, Bucs signal-caller Jameis Winston.

As Chucky famously said in one of the original NFL Network TV ads while he was still Bucs coach, “Knock it off!”

Given how Lovie Smith did no favors for Jameis Sunday, and that he didn’t have much time to throw, and the Titans knew he had to throw to get back into the game, for a rookie making his debut, he wasn’t that bad (aside from two garish picks he threw).

Don’t believe Joe? Well, WDAE-AM 620’s Pat Donovan put a graphic on Twitter last night that might enlighten you. There are quite a few NFL stud quarterbacks who wished they had as good of a first game as Jameis.

past quarterback first games

And, no, Joe pays no attention to quarterback ratings which, with the possible exception of baseball’s WAR data, may be the most BS stat every concocted by the pocket protector crowd.

If you believe in quarterback ratings, then you believe David Garrard was a better quarterback than Jim Kelly or Roger Staubach. And if you believe that, you need to be locked in a closet wearing a straitjacket and subjected to a non-stop loop of Boy George music.

So long as Jameis is given a fighting chance, he will be fine. However, Joe will share a story later in which a respected NFL scribe believes Jameis is in in a nearly impossible situation for a rookie quarterback to thrive.

118 Responses to “Get A Hold Of Yourselves!”

  1. Tampa Tony Says:

    Stats are nice but the accuracy and decision making is what concerns me. I’m not off the Jameis bandwagon yet, I just hope he gets better each week.

  2. BuccoDav Says:

    Obviously, it’s way too early to anoint either of these QBs anything. The problem is that all of the issues that worried JWs detractors were painfully on display on Sunday…
    poor footwork, poor mechanics, poor decision making.
    It’s as if all the “progress” he made over the offseason went out the window when the game started.
    I’ll give him this though, I never saw any quit in him.

  3. Harry Says:

    I am still so sick over this last game. How on earth can I be reading about “bringing more intensity” and “mental mistakes” when it was the FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON, AND FIRST HOME GAME!!! It was also Mariota’s first game, even though he looked like Montana in his prime. But then he was going against Lovie’s weak D. And that is who I put ALL of this on, NOT Winston. Those of you who are already dumping on Jameis are being way too harsh. First, he wasn’t that bad; second, he wasn’t going against the infamous Tampa Too-Lame, and lastly, Winston needs the rest of the season – he will be fine.

    But Lovie? He had ALL of last year. Then he had 8 months to get ready for this FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON, AND FIRST HOME GAME!!! Don’t friggin tell me it’s too early to call for his head. This was inexcusable!

  4. WalkdaPlank Says:

    Leave Brittney alone!!

    Ha, and how do you explain the horrible footwork, self-sacking, one hopping to receivers, butterfinger grip, and wobbly duck throws?? Was that the offensive line’s fault? Was that the coaches’s fault? Was that the defense’s fault? Hell, even his INT’s should’ve been simple exhanges and he messed that up too.

    I’m not giving up on Jameis after one game but these excuses and attempts at justification for an AWFUL game are effing asinine. No the O-line didn’t play well and neither did the defense, and the playcalling was definitely questionable, but there were multiple situations were Jameis could’ve made a play and didn’t.

    Simple as that.

  5. LJS4th Says:

    Bottom line is Shameis was the wrong choice at quarterback for this TEAM. Then again I feel bad for any quarterback that has to be behind that o-line!! Mariota would have been better because he can move and throw better on the run. It was painful at times watching Shameis run with the ball. I don’t believe the Bucs are going to improve with the players and coaching staff they have. All I know is that it is painful watching them!!! Glad I have Red Zone!!!

  6. tdtb2015 Says:


    Joe’s QB credibility is shaky at the moment…

  7. Bucco Brice Says:


  8. J Says:

    Most of his stats were padded in garbage time

  9. Bucco Brice Says:

    JOE WANTED JOHNNY FOOSBALL TOO…”simple as that”…

  10. Wilder32 Says:

    Forget it and move on. Winston was one small kernel in the lump of sh*t Lovie dumped on the field Sunday.

  11. Fartman Says:

    It wouldn’t be as bad if his performance wasn’t juxtaposed to a rookie QB who completely outclassed him. One that we had a chance at. This will go down as another classic Buccaneer draft day bungle.

  12. P'cola Buc Says:

    @ Fatman

    Yes it was seeing both quarterbacks playing on the same field, same weather conditions, on the same day made Jameis’ performance even more disappointing. Mariota looks NFL ready and always was the superior athlete. Jameis I believe will be a very good QB. Mariota may be exceptional however.

  13. tdtb2015 Says:

    I’ll make it clear people. No more bs trying to cover the TRUTH!

    Forget the following:

    1. qb ratings
    2. who’s defense they had to play
    3. o-line protection

    Now look at the following:

    accuracy of passes
    decision making

    Did we make the right choice? Just looking at the above I would still be on Jimmy’s bandwagon.

    BUT HIGH SCHOOL INTs is a red flag for me. Are you kidding me?
    BTW – with our present defense I don’t see the comeback kid having any heroics….

    We are 2-15! As simple as that!

  14. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    You are wasting your time, Joe. This is what happens when you have a 90% bandwagon fanbase. They’ll come back when we start winning. In the meantime, we have to put up with all the whining…

    …unless you exercise your god-like power to ban them. Probably won’t happen though.

    As I’ve said during and after the game…I’m not one bit worried. I expected issues in the beginning, and not just with Winston.

    I also expect a loss against the Titans. Why? Because even though local fans said we were the better team, they are better where it counts…the offensive and defensive lines. It all starts up front.

    Our offensive line just needs time to gel (and maybe a center, but I’m hoping not). Our Defensive line needs CPR.

  15. P'cola Buc Says:

    Oops… Meant Fartman

  16. BucTired Says:

    Jameis gets a pass this year as far as I’m concerned. He’s a rookie quarterback with a horrible horrible offense around him. People forget we had Steve Young here for his first NFL job. He got ran out of town and is now in the Hall of Fame. I’m not saying Jameis is Steve Young. But as with Mike Glennon, we need to wait and see. Not freak out after his first regular season game. That loss Sunday was totally the fault of the defense as far as I’m concerned.

  17. denjoe Says:

    When you look to the left, B4 you take the snap keep looking left during the snap and then throw to left it’s not good. We all knew it was gonna be picked. Great coaching!!! does it matter who we draft?

  18. DallasBuc Says:

    Winston is about the only damn thing on this team that offers any freaking hope. This is Incompetent Lovie Smith’s team with all his players and they got their panties blown off by a rookie. 6 weeks to prepare and embarrassed at home. We don’t know Winston’s ceiling. We have seen Lovie’s ceiling and it includes no home victories, no division wins and a handful of historical blowouts that make you wonder what sport is being coached in practice.

  19. DoNUTS Says:

    I do agree we really need a larger sampling size of #3 prior to claiming he is a bust or not so lets eval after week 8 or so cuz thats when Lovie’s season starts anyway. At this time, it was a pretty bad showing…what worries me most is how slow JW looks in his decision making as it leads to getting crushed in NFL. His footwork needs more work. They need to speed up his timer and remind him its okay to toss it out of reach outside the tackle. JW was playing like he had 7 sec…the NFL is 3-4 sec. This loss stunk of bad coaching and line play too. We have no nasty in #93….sorry to say…he is soft…3 tackles for a DT when they throw 16 times?

    All joking aside, the OL-DL issues on this team are glaring when you cant block an opponent up front and to top it off you cant get QB pressure then you are doomed….it all starts up front.

    Signed – MM-ARMY

  20. passthebuc Says:

    @Joe. Winston may or may not have a long NFL Career. That will depend on getting him ready, which he is not. See how long it takes him to find his first receiver when coming out from under center. This is not FSU, there are 7 angry and very fast men on the other side who do not care that he was the no. 1 pick.
    I doubt he makes it through the first year without serious injury.

  21. FortMyersDave Says:

    Joe: winning a damned game (preferably at home and sometime before Halloween) just might silence a few of the critics. But right now who can honestly believe the Bucs can beat any other NFL team???? qWinston is not the problem: Lovie and his terrible D is but fans are going to keep making comparisons of Winston to Mariota as Lovie chose Winston not Mariota and Mariota looked like a future Hall of famer against Lovie’s D while Winston had a predictably rough debut. Mariota having a 4 int day might quiet some of the trolls too but if someone like the Browns do it doesn’t that just make Lovie look even worse for his lack of preparation and the lack of talent he and his lackey Licht have on the roster?????? Winning will remove all this negativity, but when the ***k will that happen?

  22. DefenseRules Says:

    Joe, I agree with Chucky: ‘Knock it off’.

    No, not the fans … YOU. Jameis looked bad, period. It’s really pretty sad to compare his debut to Manning, Montana, Aikman, Starr, etc.

    He’s a 21-year old rookie with 2-years of college under his belt (minimal experience), limited mobility, a good arm but marginal footwork, etc. Build him up all you want, but he had no business starting yesterday … he’s not prepared to process what NFL DC’s will throw at him. That was obvious (and Sunday was a vanilla defense).

    Bucs have 52 other guys on the team depending on their QB to give them a fighting chance. Didn’t happen yesterday. Wasn’t the OLine’s fault, Jameis simply isn’t ready for the big time yet.

    Obviously neither was the Bucs defense by the way.

  23. Buccfan37 Says:

    Funny how Whisenhut before the camera at halftime talking about how his team needed to clean up their mistakes. He made Lovie look like the dud that he is. And Winston, I don’t see him ever leading the Bucs to the playoffs.

  24. The Buc Realist Says:

    Jameis has no chance with the division’s 4th worst Head Coach!!!!!

  25. destro44 Says:

    Even a top 10 QB is going to have a rough time playing down 21-0 five minutes in. Put a rookie in his first start without his best weapon into it and yeah not great. It looked like Winston kept trying though, kept his confidence so I have no problem with that. My worry is that he doesn’t get out of the season with that confidence. Then we will just have a David Carr.

  26. Bucco Brice Says:


  27. Clodhopper Says:

    We have every right to over react. It’s not like we are the Seahawks claiming the season is over after one close loss. We are 30-71. We are 2-15. We’ve seen countless crappy quarterbacks to almost zero good quarterbacks. We have seen this story too many times with the same damn ending, and we are just supposed to have faith because a few great QB’s started slow? Give me a break. It’s like telling a beaten dog not to cower when you raise your hand. We’ve been beaten too many times to think this will be any different.
    I’m sick of every year being told not to over react and to get a hold of ourselves. How about telling this team to give us just one damn reason to think this might be different, because all I’ve seen so far is more of the same!

  28. Ed Says:

    Im willing to give jameis a few more games to show us something but you can not blame people for feeling alot of negativity towards him. Sure the defense sucked but jameis put us in a hole with that terrible pick 6. He did it at fsu last year and he did it again last week, he puts his team behind the 8 ball with bad decisions. Is it too much to ask for him to make better decisions fromt he start not just at the end of games? Dont just be a football “savant” in the 4th qtr. Hope he can show us some consistancy vs NO.

  29. Jeagan1999 Says:

    I seem to recall a year or two ago a bunch of Bucs fans on this site talking about Mike Glennon’s TD vs. INT stats after his rookie year and showing how they compared very favorably to some of the great QB’s in the game. We were told at the time that it was ridiculous to compare Glennon’s numbers to Manning, or Brady, or Rothlisberger after just one season of work. But apparently it’s OK to compare Jameis Winston to Joe Montana or Terry Bradshaw after one game! One horrible, horrible game….. Double standard?

  30. The Buc Realist Says:

    On the Bright side, The Bucs have shot up the mock draft boards to secure the #1 spot overall!!!! and Lovie will not have to throw the season to retain this spot!!!!

  31. denjoe Says:

    This is a pro bowl offense compared to what MG had to work with!!!

  32. MTM Says:

    Lovie cannot judge offensive talent. Winston will be his downfall. Winston footwork is horrible. Winston moves around like he has clown shoes on. How in the hell did this organization look past this. Winston was emotional pick. Dungy had it right.

  33. Jim Palm Harbor Says:

    The Bucs are ‘on the clock’.

  34. The Buc Realist Says:

    Here is the biggest problem Buc fans, If we do not get the problem fixed, the head coach is going to panic feeling the pressure and make a huge mistake. I can see a ridiculous trade for Jadeveon Clowney paying and trading way to much and getting very little in production!!!! Sheep (lovie loyalist) you have been warned!!!!

  35. LJ'sDaddy Says:

    Well said Clodhopper. I totally agree! Give us something besides crap. Atlanta D loooked respectable last night. How long has that coordinator and HC had to get ready? Lovie is loosing me fast!

  36. Bucco Brice Says:

    LOVIE AINT DUNGY…”simple as that”…

  37. Espo Says:

    The idiot behind me was screaming how we drafted Jameis based on hype alone. He is a bust and can’t keep out of trouble. I know what you’re thinking, and thanks but no need to send me bail money.

  38. BrianBucs Says:

    America’s Quarterback Byron Leftwich

  39. bucrightoff Says:

    He should sit all year. He’s going to get ruined starting for such an amazingly bad and poorly coached team. Sacrifice Glennon and let him get killed, save Jameis for the next coach where he’ll have a chance.

  40. ShutTheBucUp Says:

    Jameis is nowhere near ready to start in the NFL, especially behind this rag tag offensive line. When he’s pressured he makes really dumb decisions and can’t seem to hold on to the football. The game Sunday wouldn’t have been as terrible if our defense was worth a bucket of piss. But unfortunately they “didn’t play very well”. Still, even if they had, we still would have lost the game. 14 points will rarely get you a win in the NFL.

  41. Johnny Dejay Says:

    In all fairness, most of us were ready to shovel dirt in Winston’s face before the draft. For the most part, it was FSU loyalists and the Joes evangelizing Winston as the savior of the franchise.

    I’d love to see Winston’s stats compared to the throngs of QB’s that failed in the NFL. His performance seemed more along the lines of Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Tim Couch, David Carr, Heath Shuler, etc. than the cherry picked statistics listed above.

    Winston simply doesn’t appear to have the skill set needed to be successful in the NFL. He’s not accurate, there is no zip on the ball, and he’s clumsier than a drunken sailor on roller skates for the first time. All the talk about his “Football IQ” being off the charts was apparently hogwash. He looked as dazed and confused as Josh Freeman coming off a three-day bender.

  42. wes Says:

    We really watched two extremes on sunday. On one side our quarter back was running for his life after he snapped the ball. On the other their quarter could have a cup of coffee before making his throw, with the exception of the two sacks.

    What’s really unacceptable to me is that Mariota didn’t even really “slice” our defense up. That’s how bad they looked. He threw a total of 16 passes. 16! Everytime he threw the ball there was a 25% chance it was a touchdown. What?? And his first touchdown was among the worst defensive plays I have ever seen. Everyone bit on that play-fake, including the camera man. And who is that white safety that got destroyed?

    On a side note, there are way too many ads on this site. My computer runs so slowly here. I realize you gotta make your money Joe but I just saw an ad to buy Packers jerseys… C’Mon Man!

  43. Bucs53 Says:

    Don’t try and confuse the haters with your logic, Joe. They have been waiting all off season to say “he’s terrible,” and they are sure acting like they wanted that more than they wanted a win.

    My disappointment order is this:

    1) Lovie Smith 2) Our fans 3) Our defense 4) Winston 5) Our Oline

  44. LargoBuc Says:

    Sadly, Mariota is more pro ready, despite being a spread qb. Did you see Mariota trip over his own feet? We had a shot at a kid who could help us win now and we took the tba qb. I know ppl wana give Mariota all the credit or our defense all the blame but its both. The window Mariota had to throw in was so big, its like he never left the pac12. But he took what he was giving. He read the defense pre snap and he made no rookie mistakes.

  45. Bucco Brice Says:


  46. Hawk Says:

    I agree with Jeagan1999, and will add… NO ONE can use the ‘O-line’ as an excuse. We were led to believe, by Joe and others, that a great QB could raise the level of play around them. McCown could not do it. Glennon could not do it. But Winston was the ONLY guy in the draft with that ability. Did not see it in the preseason, and did not see it on Sunday. Maybe it isn’t the QB who needs to raise the level of play. Maybe it is the coaches.
    It is WAY too early to call Winston (or Mariota) a Boom or Bust, but this game, because of the participants, hype, and home record, cannot help but raise emotions to an unreasonable level.
    I am so glad I bought stock in all the liquor stores. :^)

  47. Espo Says:

    I see a lot of fans that kind of sorta maybe show signs that they could’ve possibly been rooting for him to fail just so they can say they told us so.

    Maybe they should kind of sorta sit and rotate.

  48. DallasBuc Says:

    Espo- Root or don’t root for failure, Incompetent Lovie Smith is still a failure regardless of what fans root for.
    You are not making a statement, just a diversion.

  49. So Cal X Bucs Fan Says:

    Joe you remind me of my mother in law coming up with anything to justify and say your are right. Winston played exactly the same at FSU and preseason games face it he was the wrong pick at #1. Mariota has outshined him twice now in head to head competition. Winston might develope into a NFL QB but he will never be as good as Mariota. Lovie and the rest of bucs office should have taken Dungy’s advice!

  50. Cobraboy Says:


    No more “America’s Quarterback.”

    That is an insult to America.

    The only rookie QB Americans are talking about is Marcus Mariota.

  51. Joe Says:

    Joe you remind me of my mother in law coming up with anything to justify and say your are right. Winston played exactly the same at FSU and preseason games face it he was the wrong pick at #1. Mariota has outshined him twice now in head to head competition. Winston might develope into a NFL QB but he will never be as good as Mariota. Lovie and the rest of bucs office should have taken Dungy’s advice!

    LOL Noted offensive guru and quarterback coach Tony Dungy.

  52. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    JOE….PUHLEEZE…stop trying to make a silk’s purse out of a sow’s ear.

    Jameis was beyond horrible and NO it’s not all on the OL…in fact yes the Oline has two rookies…the rookie OL played far, far better than Fameis!!

    BTW Russell Wilson no QB in “clown shoes”as one poster correctly identified Fameis footwork…was sacked SIX times to Fameis FOUR!! And I do not know how sack stats are recorded. When Fameis fumbles and falls on it behind the line of scrimmage is that not also a sack? That would bring his total down to 2.
    He had plenty of time on the two picks…and on other passes that were just totally inaccurate.

    I certainly understand that it’s just ONE game and with the way Lovie’s D is playing discussing offense is a moot point. Brady, QB or offense can compensate enough for this rotten D. I get that as well.

    But BuccoDav hit on almost all the salient points. Why are you not addressing them Joe?

    poor footwork, poor mechanics, poor decision making.
    BD is correct!! I’d only add that Fameis plays like the football has been coated in vaseline. I thought that Rose Bowl blunder was a once in a lifetime accident…now I wonder?

    I’m the freaking blog optimist. But I have to believe my eyes and all these excuses are growing weary. Yes he’s got a great attitude, leadership, charisma but I fear he’ll make a great compliment to the “other” face of the franchise GMC. Totally inconsistent.

    If you recall Joe, you and all the other media were worried in training camp when Fameis had his “off days”.

    Now we are all left hoping that Fameis inconsistency will at least provide more good days than bad. I concede when he’s on he can chuck the pigskin…but that’s about it.

    Not giving up but my eyes long to see something!!!

  53. Espo Says:


    First, sorry you have to live in Texas.

    Second, the article is about Jameis. How is my comment a diversion when you bring up Lovie? Focus.

  54. Skyline Crew Says:

    Stop making excuses. He made terrible decisions. The only reason his stats are that way are because of garbage time. Glennon probably would have done better. It’s funny you all bash Glennon, but Winston gets a pass. BS! Glennon hasn’t had a better line or situation than Jameis is in now. Karma is a Biotch.

  55. Espo Says:

    Back off topic, yes Lovie is a failure. I’ve defended the man but I no longer have any grounds to do so. I’m not calling for his head, yet, if only because I’d like to see some sort of continuity with our team.

  56. tellthetruth Says:

    The reason everyone is so pissed off is that it’s obvious we should have taken Marcus

  57. Lord Cornelius Says:

    Nope it’s perfectly normal to judge exactly how a QB’s career will be based on their rookie debut where they were down 21-0 in the 1st quarter before they had attempted a 3rd pass.

    Totally fair assessment.

    Meanwhile Mariota; while not completing a single pass that went in the air more than 20 yards; is a future HOFer after dinking the Bucs for 150 yards after the catch and 4 TDs. Wow he is so amazing guys we really screwed up

  58. Espo Says:

    The check down throwing giraffe would’ve fared much better…

  59. Drew Says:

    Josh Freeman 2.0! Nuff said.

  60. Oahubuc Says:

    Winston is a distraction. Lovie is a distraction. There has been only one constant in this decade of futility.

  61. Buc1987 Says:

    @joe…all of the above comments after ONE game. These have to be the same Buc fans that declared McCoy a bust 3 years ago. One game and the very first start of his career. These people are in for a longer season than me. I’ve been expecting a rough first season for Winston all summer long. Mariota won’t look so hot soon too, but those people will disappear as soon as Mariota craps the bed and he will.

    I’m sure there’s many of cautious Titans fans out there that although they were impressed with Mariota, they realize he was ONLY playing up against the Bucs.

  62. Lord Cornelius Says:

    ” I thought that Rose Bowl blunder was a once in a lifetime accident…now I wonder?”

    St Pete I think you really need to calm down on the Jameis freak out.

    I watched extensive tape of the Rose Bowl and videos of scouts that broke down the game and explained how Winston actually threw a very solid game and outplayed Mariota but his team was severely outplayed. At some point I watched every single throw by both QBs. There’s youtube videos on it.

    If you think he played bad in that game or was the reason FSU lost you don’t know how to evaluate QBs. Simple as that. He was carving up the Ducks defense for the most part with 350 passing yards that mostly came in the 2.5 quarters when the game was somewhat competitive. After a missed FG to end the half Dalvin Cook had 2 huge fumbles early in the 3rd that lead to 15 points for Oregon on subsequent drives.

    Winston didn’t turn the ball over until that blooper like 4th and long desperation play towards the end of the 3rd quarter when the team was down by 19 already because of the team fumbles and absolute atrocious defense against Oregon. And that turnover happened because the guy wasn’t in position to throw it away / take a sack /etc because the game was already basically out of hand.

    No QB in any game at any level can overcome 28 points in turnovers by his teammates. That’s just insane. When the game was close he was moving his team up and down the field. But you can’t overcome 28 points in turnovers that aren’t your fault.

    Just like it’s kind of hard to start the game in any normal fashion down 21 to 0 in the 1st quarter before you have thrown your THIRD PASS. Yes 7 of those points are on Winston but a little defense would have probably helped in general.

    He didn’t play well though or start fast. The pick 6 was a killer. But it’s insane to really have some sort of conclusive opinion at this point imo

  63. Cannon Says:

    As much as I want to defend Jameis… he honestly wasn’t under THAT much pressure, nor were his interceptions a result of spectacular play by the Titan’s D defense.

    He made a boneheaded play on his very first pass. Looked at his receiver, took the snap, continued to stare at the receiver, and then lofted a grapefruit to the safety who had to jog to make a break on the ball. That play sucker punched the Bucs so hard that they never recovered.

    The 2nd interception I can kinda understand. Jameis basically underestimated a pro defensive lineman’s ability to get off the ground. That was purely a rookie mistake that will likely (hopefully) never happen again.

    Then there is the matter of slippery hand offs, tripping over his feet, and plodding around behind the line of scrimmage. It wasn’t pretty.

    I hope things turn around for him soon.

  64. Cannon Says:

    As a follow up, I will say that I am proud that he competed hard, right to the closing bell.

    He does have a lot of heart.

  65. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Joe’s backing his opinion up with STATS – I can respect that.

    Cheers 2 u Sir!

  66. Lord Cornelius Says:

    I’m sure there’s many of cautious Titans fans out there that although they were impressed with Mariota, they realize he was ONLY playing up against the Bucs.”

    Even if Winston dominated the Titans i’d be the same way. I’d think its only one game and he may stink it up against a team that better prepares or has a better defensive game plan.

    RG3 looked like a superhuman all year as a passer. Not just running but was extremely efficient passing the football. Now he might be playing safety or something lol.

    Anyone who makes absolute judgements / opinions at this point is a fool

  67. Bobby Says:

    Joe, you’re wasting keystrokes on this clueless crowd. Mark my words….Winston will be the better QB of these two. Is it going to take time? Yes. I can still see Jameis is favoring that ankle he injured. Once the O-line gels and he has time to go through his progressions he will be the better QB. He’s got a better arm and I believe a better football IQ. I also think he has more heart. To give up on him after one game is beyond stupid. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a forum where the fans are more clueless about the game. I’m still undecided about coaching. It was atrocious most of last year and certainly looked god awful Sunday. You may have a valid point about Lovie and staff but to give up so quickly on a rookie QB in his first game just shows how foolish your expectations are to begin with. You just ignore the stats of other rookie QB’s Joe posted and act like they are irrelevant. Just because Mariotta looked better in game 1 doesn’t mean we don’t have a QB who will grow into a great QB. I believe he will.

  68. Buc1987 Says:

    Skyline Crew…I’ll admit Glennon had a better rookie debut. I’ll also admit that Glennon had a better team around him than what Lovie had on that field on Sunday. If you throw out everything Lovie did in Chicago, then Schiano so far is a better coach than Lovie imo.

    lol I didn’t expect to them to win more than 4-6 games tops before the season. Now I can find a win anywhere on the schedule. Anywhere.

  69. Buc1987 Says:


  70. Buc1987 Says:

    Bobby and Lord Corn….2 very good posts!

  71. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    February 14th, 2015 at 9:19 am

    When you really thing about it. It’s Amazing how so many successful QB’s walked into turnkey offensive line situations.

    Equally sad to see soooooooooooo many QB’s with potential. Played behind terrible offensive lines–Turn skittish/ terrified’ under relentless pressure–and never panned out.

    Case In Point

    Eli Manning-1st round (1st overall) of the 2004 NFL Draft

    Giants Offensive
    • LT-Luke Petitgout-1st round (19th overall) of the 1999 NFL Draft.
    • C-Shaun O’Hara-3-time Pro Bowler
    • RG-Chris Snee-2nd round (34th overall) of the 2004 NFL Draft.
    • RT-David Diehl-1-time Pro Bowler

    • Two Premium Picks Luke Petitgout/ Chris Snee
    • Two Future Pro Bowlers- Shaun O’Hara/ David Diehl


    Carson Palmers Offensive Line (When he started)

    Carson Palmer- 1st round (1st overall) of the 2003 NFL Draft.
    • LT-Levi Jones- 1st round (10th overall) of the 2002 NFL Draft.
    • LG-Eric Steinbach- 2nd round (33rd overall) of the 2003 NFL Draft.
    • RG-Bobbie Williams- 2nd round (61st overall) of the 2000 NFL Draft.
    • RT-Willie Anderson- 1st round (10th overall) of the 1996 NFL Draft.

    C-Rich Braham was a seasoned 10yr vet (Free Agent Signing)


    2x Super Champion (Ben Roethlisberger Rookie Offensive Line)

    • LT Marvel Smith 2nd / 38th pick
    • LG Alan Faneca 1st / 26th pick / 1998
    • C Jeff Hartings 1st / 23rd pick / 1996 (–Detroit Lions)
    • RG Keydrick Vincent <-Young Mauler at the time
    • RT Oliver Ross

    15-1-0 <-Team Finished

    Of course -Roethlisberger had a GREAT DEFENSE & RUSHING ATTACK–Before he arrived

  72. Buc1987 Says:

    Lord Cornelius Says:
    September 15th, 2015 at 11:26 am

    ” I thought that Rose Bowl blunder was a once in a lifetime accident…now I wonder?”

    Dude SPBF has been talking about the Rose Bowl play since Sunday, in nearly every post he makes. Stay tuned you’ll read about it again later on today in another post.

  73. Skyline Crew Says:

    87′ I agree. Lovie is an awful coach and the Glazers are awful owners. I had us pegged for about 6 wins. Now I’m not seeing a win either unless it is against the Skins.

  74. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Also Note

    Doug Williams left Tampa and Joined the Hogs

    (The Hogs)
    • LT -Joe Jacoby
    • LG -Raleigh McKenzie
    • C -Russ Grimm / Jeff Bostic
    • RG -Mark May
    • RT – Jim Lachey

    Steve Young was traded to San Fran and Joined a very good offensive line

    • LT-Bubba Paris
    • LG-Guy McIntyre
    • C- Jesse Sapolu
    • RG-Bruce Collie
    • RT-Harris Barton

  75. Buc1987 Says:

    SPBF…for the record. Prior to that Rose Bowl play you keep referring to. Winston never did anything like that on the field. You would know that if you watched other FSU games outside of the Rose Bowl game.

  76. Skyline Crew Says:

    We lost to Mariota get over it. For those trying to justify losing by making excuses stop. People are actually complaining that Mariota dinked and dunked us. Don’t blame the QB blame Lovie. A QB does what is given to him. If Lovie would have played up I’m sure Mariota would have thrown deeper, but he didn’t have to. Also, don’t compare Mariota to RG3. RG3 runs before passing.

  77. Buc1987 Says:

    It’s going to take a helluva lot more for me to give up on Jameis after 1 game. Check back on me about him in say 2017. Even if he picks it all up by midseason this season and starts to look good, I’ll still say check back with me in 2017.

    @Joe you made a valid point by listing the other QB’s, but that doesn’t matter we’ve had Buc fans that have been chomping at the bit all summer to see if Winston would fail. Hoping for it even. Hell 95% of America wants him to fail. That’s why after one game, one game, his first game ever, he’s everything they thought he was going to be before the draft. They saw it all in his FIRST game. He a bust just like they said before the draft. That’s why I don’t blame these fans fro knocking his first start. They’ve wanted him to fail before he even took the field. For some of them, that game made them happy on Sunday. They feel better now.

  78. chickster Says:

    Sky your a idiot Mariota will prove to be the class of the draft bucs got stinker not only is he bad but he trips on his own feet hes not ready for this yet playing him now is just hurting him hes a immature as it gets hes playing scared o ;line didn’t do that badly my guess is that he will have to be pulled on sunday its that bad

  79. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    My point is not that MM outplayed Fameis in the Rose Bowl. I singled out one play and pointed out that at the time I considered it a total aberration. 87 has just assured me that he didn’t play like the ball was coated in vaseline at FSU.

    I truly do not care which QB is better. i’m not one to cry over spilt milk. And I agree with everyone here that ONE game does not make a career for either MM or JW.

    I’m simply growing weary of the excuses. If he hadn’t played like the ball was slippery in the PS…if he did not look like his shoelaces on each shoe were tied to each other through the PS and game #1…if he wasn’t so inconsistent…

    I’ve tried to point out some calm reflection using Brett Favre who also tossed a pick six on his first pass…he was traded after one year…he didn’t start until later his second after GB’s starter went down.

    I’m simply saying there is reasonable cause to be at minimum concerned. Fameis might totally suck this year…he literally can’t play any worse than he did on Sunday..and still end up being a franchise QB after a year or two of experience. After watching his PS and his first game…even as the blog optimist I have to express some serious concern. Or as 87 said about me…I’m having nightmares!!!

    Again…I do not care about MM…he is not our QB nor will he ever be…he’s literally irrelevant now that he’ll no longer be on our schedule unless we meet him in the SB. It’s TOTALLY about the play of OUR franchise QB which was scary bad on Sunday. Only ONE game but what a freaking nightmare.

  80. Buc1987 Says:

    What makes matters worse is Lovie’s D made Mariota look like Montana. IMO his D is going to continue to do that all season long to most QB’s. Teams have the tape. They know what works, they also know that Lovie never makes adjustments. Mariota didn’t look any different to me than any QB that the Bucs faced last season. The blueprint was laid out for the rest of the NFL last season, and Lovie’s changed nothing but the roster.

    0-16 here we come or Mariota really is the second coming of Montana.

  81. gotbbucs Says:

    Jamies gets a full season, at least, before the jury comes in with a decision.

    Lovies defense made up of mostly veteran players however do not, they should be pushed to the front of the line on death row. That performance is beyond unacceptable, even with an unimaginative moron calling the shots. If Lovie and company can’t put together a better game plan than that in the coming weeks it should be painfully obvious to the powers that be that he can’t adapt to todays game.

  82. Buc1987 Says:

    SPBF…I never even saw the sloppy footwork out of him at FSU to tell you the truth. I have no idea where it’s coming from. I think someone has tinkered too much with their new toy actually. Or the ankle is taped up too much. I saw sloppy INT’s at FSU many when he was being pressured though. Never saw the sloppy footwork. I think that is a big problem that needs to be fixed in a hurry. It’s going to screw up his entire rhythm if they don’t get it corrected or go back to whatever he was doing on his dropbacks at FSU. Or put him in shotgun more often.

  83. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “My point is not that MM outplayed Fameis in the Rose Bowl.”

    The thing is most people who broke down the film and every single play of that game disagree.

    Mariota had the worst turnover between their of them in that game for how & when it occured. He threw a pick in a close game on a bad over thrown pass late in the 2nd quarter before the half. He also missed some wide open WRs on multiple passes.

    Meanwhile if you chart all of Jameis throws they were much more difficult because the coverage was much tighter than what FSU gave Oregon. He had like 10 “wow” type throws in that game while most of Oregon’s big pass plays were just like what we saw against the titans – a wide open 1st read WR catching a ball 5-7 yards out and taking it to the house.

    Maybe what all this means is that everyone in the NFL should run the read-option / Oregon / chip Kelly offense lol. I’m not even kidding. It seems like it’s been extremely effective so far for everyone calling it a gimmick offense. I fall Winston had to do was get the ball out within 2 seconds to a wide open WR across the middle his life would be f*cking easy so why don’t we figure out that sh1t lol??

  84. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    As much as I wanted to trade down for a Kings Randsom. I won’t hate on the kid, but if he keeps it up. We might have to bench’em- around the bye week. So that he can catch his bearings.

  85. So Cal X Bucs Fan Says:

    So Joe are you an offensive guru?
    I like to refer to Dungy as Superbowl winning head coach and he had Peyton Manning as QB he knows what a good QB should play like, bad QBs is why the bucs fired him.

  86. Buc1987 Says:

    LOL I’m rewatching Winston highlights at FSU to look for the sloppy footwork. I see a lot of 2-3 step drops. Maybe the 5 step drop isn’t working out?

    Seriously watch his drop backs in college on youtube. There’s no stumbling or bumbling or tripping over his feet.

  87. Lord Cornelius Says:

    We lost to Mariota get over it. For those trying to justify losing by making excuses stop. ”

    No one is making excuses people are just saying you’d be a freaking moron to judge a rookie QBs career after 1 game – especially the type of freakshow lopsided after 5 minutes had gone by game we just had.

    I’m all for incorporating the zone-read so that all Winston has to do is get the ball off in less than 2 seconds to a wide open WR running across the middle of the field.

    I haven’t said Mariota is a bad QB or anything. He played a great game and threw accurately but if you think he will have those type of passes available to him consistently the rest of his NFL career then that’s just f*cking hilarious.

    I want to see how these QBs do in 4th quarters and 2 minute drives when they are in close games and forced to pass. That’s typically how most NFL games end up being won a lot. And in college that is where WInston excelled (undefeated in close games with tons of comeback victories / 4th quarter game winning drives) and where Mariota struggled a little (losing record in close games).

    Mariota may be the next Aaron Rodgers and Winston may end up some bust. But give it a few years. I would never have come in here talking sh1t about Mariota if we won that game and he looked bad because I’d be an idiot to form that type of opinion so fast and would know it could haunt me

  88. BrianBucs Says:

    Everybody is saying now what a horrible coach that Lovie Smith is. Well if this is indeed true, then the worst coaching mistake that he has made so far is drafting Jameis Winston. There was a franchise QB looking him in the face and he passed on him and chose the wrong one. Bad Lovie

  89. Buc1987 Says:

    Brain..good for you, you got that out of the way. Come back next week and tell us again. Then come back in 3 years and tell us again.

  90. DoNUTS Says:

    Now come on 87….this is simply not true>>I’ve been expecting a rough first season for Winston all summer long. You have been JWs #1 protector on here besides Joe and NoleonSatBucSunday dude. I told you long time ago take those garnett glasses off..but you ignored the obvious. If I recall you had this team down for 8-9 wins….not exactly rough. I had them at 5 wins…I think Joe was 5-6. I dont expect JW blind supporters to take ownership of their err. Let me know how you feel when JW continues to look the same and we have 1-2 wins at half way point.

    McCoy really? Mr. 3 tackles? I wouldnt defend him at the moment….I saw him pushed around last weekend…I use the word soft. He will never be Sapp or anything close.

    This morning, I said JW needs more time but I dont expect greatness anytime soon.

    The fans of this team need to realize we are the Browns of NFL now and until major change (ownership) occurs…we will be the modern version of the Den of Depression.

    PFT (ranked worst team in NFL):
    32. Buccaneers (0-1; No. 31): Maybe the Bucs should add a “no blocking” and “no tackling” clause to the “no baseball” provision in Jameis Winston’s contract.

  91. BrianBucs Says:

    1987 and all of the other Winston enablers

    Put away all of your FSU highlight reels and videos. Winston is in the NFL now and those old ACC games don’t mean squat. Things are different for him now and he has a LOT to learn and adjust to. You can keep reliving your FSU glory days all you want to, but those days are done and well over. Time to get in present day reality now

  92. Ed Says:

    Whats more unbelievable than the people who are depressed by Jameis performance and reacting to it? The people who continously make excuses for him and want to deny he has not looked good 8 out of the 10 quarters of pro football he has played so far. People are calling him a bust because, so far, he has played like a bust. That doesnt mean he can’t turn it around, he certainly will have that oppertunity. But lets be real here, he hasnt shown anything that justifies the hype so far.

  93. DB55 Says:


  94. Lord Cornelius Says:

    BrianBucs no one is talking about highlights or ACC games but continue to just make up sh1t.

    Probably time for me to mini retire again these moronic football 5 year old mentality fans are impossible to have a conversation with.

  95. BrianBucs Says:

    As we all saw Sunday, Winston is NOT NFL ready. He has a lot of work to do. If he can learn and make the adjustments that he needs to make, and turns out to be a successful NFL quarterback for the Bucs then that will be fantastic. If he doesnt, then in 3 years the Bucs will be back in the same old boat they were before, needing a QB, and all of these Winston jerseys we all have and see now will be at yard sales for 1.00

  96. BrianBucs Says:


    Better read up. 1987 is

  97. Phil Says:

    I have no problems with Jameis. Jameis will be fine. Lovie is a moron. Players have already tuned him out. Hopefully the Glazers will hire us a coach soon. At least FSU is undefeated.

  98. Pawel Says:

    Defense sucks and that is all.

  99. tickrdr Says:

    Jeagan1999 Says:
    September 15th, 2015 at 8:54 am

    I seem to recall a year or two ago a bunch of Bucs fans on this site talking about Mike Glennon’s TD vs. INT stats after his rookie year and showing how they compared very favorably to some of the great QB’s in the game. We were told at the time that it was ridiculous to compare Glennon’s numbers to Manning, or Brady, or Rothlisberger after just one season of work. But apparently it’s OK to compare Jameis Winston to Joe Montana or Terry Bradshaw after one game! One horrible, horrible game….. Double standard?
    Excellent post and question, Jeagan!

    I will respectfully point out that last year, MG8 and the Bucs had an 11 point lead in the 4th quarter against the Saints in the Superdome, before losing in OT, following a stupid penalty. Of course, there is a double standard.

    So many good points made by fellow posters over the last two days, I wish I could remember them all, such as LUVMYBUCS and SPBF and others.
    Some of Winston’s issues such as staring down receivers, making only “one read”, footwork and mechanics (chronic ankle instability), and elongated delivery may get better with time, more experience and coaching. The biggest concern for me for JW3 was his LACK of ACCURACY. Rewatch the game, and see passes like his throw for a completion to ASJ, which was deflected five yards off its flight path to luckily end up in ASJ’s hands. Others were bounced in there etc. Too early to tell, but I believe you play as you practice. The issues regarding picks and low completion percentage from TC and the preseason seem to presage his performance for the first game. In fact, the whole team in preseason looked alarmingly like the 2014 team in preseason. As I have asked previously, which single player, anyone, let alone their whole unit; has played better in 2014 or 2015 under Lovie et al, than under Schiano in 2013???


  100. tj Says:

    bucs made a big mistake with first pick, also bs penaltys have made the game almost impossible to watch

  101. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “Better read up. 1987 is”

    He’s not talking highlights he’s just talking his film in general at FSU in terms of sloppy footwork specifically. It’s not like people are going “DER LOOK AT HIS FSU STATS & HIGHLIGHTS HE WAS AMAZING” like you are suggesting.

    My main argument is that if you were to judge all NFL rookie QBs on week 1 alone you’d have like the dumbest QB ranking list possible that would look nothing like what their careers ended up as.

    So knowing all of that – I find it HILARIOUS that people like you are doing EXACTLY THAT kind of thinking. You guys should lay down bets on all of this with how convinced you seem to be about everything after 1 damn game. I’m sure everything will play out exactly as you see

  102. ufour20 Says:

    Excuses are like butt holes, everyone has one and they all stink. If you don’t have at least a little concern about this QB, you’re the very definition of a homer. From training camp, to preseaon, to first game – the guy has displayed the same traits over and over – bad feet, bad throwing motion/velocity and bad decision making. Could he get better? Sure. Could Donald Trump win nice guy of the year award? Sure. Do either show signs it will happen? Nope.

    It is only one game, but as someone that never wanted this pick and though the other QB was better, it goes a long way to show we were right and you were wrong. MM has outplayed JW in every aspect as we knew he would, and JW is playing exactly like the people did’t want him knew he would – horrible. We’re not anti Buc, but we can see what’s in front of us. Obviously, it’s easier to come up with excuses and lame ass, cherry picked stats and comparisons than admit that so far, this dude is going to be a bust.

  103. Aceofaerospace Says:

    It’s still not to late to fire Lovie. It’s only Tuesday. Just do it. You know you’re going to later. Give us something to be happy about.

  104. Greig Says:

    I said before the draft that we had to take a QB because we simply didn’t have one worth a damn on the roster BUT that in doing so it was a wasted pick due to Smith being the HC and he would kill any type of chance either would have of reaching their potential. I HATE Glennon as a QB but as long Smith is still head coach I saw/see little point in even trying to improve the QB position or offense.

  105. MadMax Says:

    Until we can fix the O line how about we just go with Glennon!

    Put Jameis in the 4th quarter only for the next 2 games….then the 2nd half and just ease him in.

    We already know why he looked good in camp…..OUR D SUX!! And thats the reality. Thats what we’ve done to ourselves skipping ove the D so much the last 3 drafts…..other than Banks and Kwon, its been nothing.

    And Im SICK of seeing Lovie bring in his old players just so they can get a pay check. This is why Im ok if we fire Lovie AND his old players soon. Get That Crap Outta Here!

  106. BrianBucs Says:


    Like Joe and 1987, eating humble pie and crow is much easier with an adult beverage or two

  107. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    As usual – another good post Sir

  108. James Marlow Says:

    Thought you weren’t a numbers guy Joe… And I see you still believe in JW being “America’s QB.” I hope you are right, but you are making a mockery of the word America, and possible the word quarterback too.

  109. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “From training camp, to preseaon, to first game – the guy has displayed the same traits over and over – bad feet, bad throwing motion/velocity and bad decision mak”


    There were tons of outstanding TC reviews of him lighting it up / making big plays / 2 minute drill / red zone drills / etc. Go read all the damn pewter reports / joe reports / etc. They have tons of highlight plays to watch on the bucs website. He played almost flawless in week 2 of preseason which was the game he hurt his ankle and then played bad on it in week 3 and early on in a blowout loss in 1 regular season game.

    But go ahead mr expert a55hat. You know all! Put some $$ on your amazing ability to figure out peoples careers in like a few preseason appearances and a blowout loss where the QB was down 21 before his 3rd pass. Seems like a great strategy for predicting the future!!

  110. Lord Cornelius Says:


    Like Joe and 1987, eating humble pie and crow is much easier with an adult beverage or two”

    Ok well come back to me in 3 years a55hole and we will see who was right. Meanwhile you can be the idiot that judges QB careers in one game.

  111. buc15 Says:

    Well said BuccaneerBonzai

  112. Bucnjim Says:

    He was the main reason we were down by 21! Pick six and several three and outs gave the Titans the ball mid field. Titans might as well have been playing arena football.

  113. Bucnjim Says:

    The reason Mariota didn’t have better stats is because most of their drives started around mid field. Bucs couldn’t get out of their own way on offense…..literally!

  114. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    As always a thoughtful post! Your ankle theory is looking more and more valid with each drop back.

    To give the other side some JW optimism…87 said he reviewed his FSU collection and Fameis did better with the 2 step drops so perhaps he still mastering the 5 step drops.

    I accept Lord C a poster I respect a LOT…and 87 another great poster’s frustration with us after only one game. Again Brett Favre took quite awhile to become Brett Favre. I’m not writing JW off yet but he’s just making me nervous. Let’s see what happens at N.O.

    As you point out tickdr MG8 didn’t just play well enough to give us a chance to win…he lead us to victory until we went all Buccanneer and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

  115. papadoc Says:

    Just think what may have happened if Mariota actually had played the fourth quarter rather than watching from the sidelines. 2 or 3 more touchdowns could have been under his belt with the Bucs losing 60 or more points to 14. GO BUCS – back to the high school level.

  116. Destinjohnny Says:

    I’m sure ole Jameis won’t stare down his wideouts next week. I’m sure he will all of a sudden not have horrible footwork. I’m sure he will all of a sudden will not have a ultra slow delivery. It’s going take winston 3 years to become average
    Drafting Jameis is lovie’s Waterloo

  117. lurker Says:

    love me some jameis christ…

    but couldn’t resist

  118. lurker Says:

    joe edited the title.. 🙂