Does Lovie Want A Mike Shula Clone?
January 7th, 2015
Derrick Brooks weighs in on the Bucs’ OC search
Bucs icon Derrick Brooks broached a very interesting subject this afternoon with the dean of Tampa Bay sports radio, Steve Duemig of WDAE-AM 620.
Joe warns weak-stomached Bucs fans to proceed with caution.
Brooks talked about how the union of the head coach and the offensive coordinator is far more important than the blending of the starting quarterback and the OC.
No. 55 cautioned that Lovie Smith and friends can’t just look to find an offensive coordinator who can build a high-octane, spread offense for Marcus Mariota, for example.
“I think you have to get his philosophy down before you tie an offense to him,” Brooks said of choosing a coordinator. “Because that player can be gone the first snap of a season, injury, never play a down for you. So you can’t say I’m building just around this guy who never took a snap here. But you’d like to see what his philosophy is, and if his philosophy marries up to different talents. … Does his philosophy fit any direction we want to go?”
Brooks cited injured 2014 No. 1 overall pick Jadeveon Clowney as a prime example of how teams can’t hitch their wagon to one guy.
“The marriage gotta be between the head coach and the OC, not the OC and the player,” Brooks said. “And how does that fit when you call the defense? How does that fit from your defensive standpoint, too? Nowadays, I would like to see more of an offensive coordinator calling plays to fit the “D,’ the “D” calling plays to fit the “O.” It’s, a lot of that stuff is into the chemistry.”
Brooks seemed to believe the Bucs should consider finding an offensive coordinator who can support the kind of football Lovie has won with.
“Clearly, the early years of the Bucs, Mike Shula called an offensive game plan that supported a defensive strategy; don’t turn the football over, run it, very safe passes. The defense, keep them in winnable situations because they’re going to give us winnable chances to score. … Don’t do anything to hurt [the defense].
“I don’t know if that’s done now these days. I don’t know if that staff chemistry of calling plays is done as much as it was back then because, you know, guys fall in love with that playbook.”
The irony here is two-fold. First, the old Bucs offense got Tony Dungy run out of town and Chucky was brought in to run a different show — and call his own plays. So Chucky sure was in love and in tune with his playcaller. Second,Shula reinvented and revived himself with the Carolina Panthers last year, successfully helping Cam Newton adapt to a more hybrid, balanced offense.
January 7th, 2015 at 7:20 pm
Said it before, will say it again:
Lovie Smith = OC Killah
January 7th, 2015 at 7:24 pm
You realize, Tom, you are basing that one the “guesses” of others. Or the opinions of others.
January 7th, 2015 at 7:25 pm
You’re right Joe that was too close to dinner. I love DB but I do not love his idea of football.
If the freaking defense is so great they shouldn’t have to worry about the offense as long as the offense scores points and the defense is able to hold any offensive turnovers to simple field goals. This works for many teams like Denver and others. Yes the other team moves the ball down the field and scores but they end up trading threes for touchdowns and it doesn’t take long for the team scoring TD’s to pull away.
The league has already rewritten plenty of rules to increase offense, and some of the rules to protect the players from brain injury have also had the effect of making it easier for the offense.
This is only going to accelerate. The owners want more offense and apparently most of the fans enjoy watching it as well. They’re already fiddling with ideas to limit the effectiveness of kickers…narrowing the goalposts…moving extra points back etc. I love DB but he’s talking about an era of dinosaur football.
Another poster mentioned earlier today that watching Marcus was fun while watching Jameis is boring. That’s a bit extreme but I do have to confess watching Oregon is far, far more exciting than FSU or Alabama.
I grew up across from Cincinnati. We all hated being stuck with Woody Hayes and three yards and a cloud of dust. I hate Dungy/Lovieball even more.
Run-run-pass-punt. Rinse and repeat frequently.
January 7th, 2015 at 7:28 pm
If that were the real case then why wouldn’t he start Glennon? Not going to win many games outright but is way better at not losing games tan McCown who is reckless to say the least. How many games did McCown lose once the D started playing well with his turnovers?
January 7th, 2015 at 7:32 pm
Lovie passed on Roman because Roman expressed a desire to sometimes maybe score points.
January 7th, 2015 at 7:34 pm
And he will be fired if he even thinks of doing it. I mean midseason or b4. This football is not and cannot exist in today’s nfl period. If he thinks that he is signing his ticket out of Tampa this year.
January 7th, 2015 at 7:36 pm
Then we already have one. Guess that’s what Tedford meant.
January 7th, 2015 at 7:36 pm
@BucBonzai: Go check Lovie’s list of past OCs, it is long and VERY undistinguished, kinda like the commentors here……basically, Lovie is going to be viewed as being on thin ice, especially if things don’t look a lot better next year….no decent guys will work for him…
Simple as that….
January 7th, 2015 at 7:42 pm
These guys like brooks need to back off. They are dinosaurs, they don’t know how the nfl works anymore. It’s like an old employee unwilling to change. Hopefully lovie isn’t of the same mindset, but there’s some concern….
January 7th, 2015 at 7:45 pm
Build the D and make sure they score less than 17 is not a winning formula. Few teams accel at that. Carolina and San Fran are the two teams who succeed by the skin of their teeth and 80% of their offense is the QB play. We have plenty of weapons offensively, more than Carolina AND San Fran. With the right OC, QB, and play calling we can be a 30 point scoring team AND limit teams to 17-20 or less. I personally think Mariota is better suited for us, but am curious to see Winston too. Once we get the OC and QB we need to address the OLine and DLine. Hard. Relentlessly.
McCown was supposed to manage the game, he failed MISERABLY. It’s incredible that VJax and Evans did the numbers they did with this playcalling and QB play. I LOVE the idea of Roman and Mariota. When the line improves, so will the run game.
My biggest fear is Rex Ryan as HC for Atlanta. That O is already powerful, more than he had in NY. The defense needs work and he can build exactly what I’m asking for 30-17 games and a ton of wins.
Ryan and Newton are here to stay. Bree’s is on the outs, our QB play with Mariota can be a mix of Ryan and Newton and THAT is exciting.
January 7th, 2015 at 7:56 pm
While I hate to hear this, you knew that is the reality of Lovie’s philosophy. Tiger doesn’t change his stripes. He is essentially just like Dungy. If not for Dungy inheriting a Colts offense, he may not have ever won a title with his idea of how to build an offense. He got spoiled with the Steelers in the 70s/80s. Those defenses don’t come along often. He had one such defense in Tampa, but not the Bradshaw/Swann/Stalworth/Harris/Blier/Good OL. I believe that his stubbornness in thinking he can replicate that team kept him from titles in Tampa and would have in Indy if not for Peyton and Tom Moore.
Lovie is a clone and since Tony likes Mariota, I see that being Lovie’s only choice for a QB and that leaves Bucs fans with a few years of grooming and sadly more losing seasons or 9-7 defensive winning seasons with not enough offense to go anywhere if getting into the playoffs.
January 7th, 2015 at 7:57 pm
@Tom Edrington,
Ouch! “Kind of like the commentors here…”
What? We are too dumb for your taste? And then you misspell commenters?
Now that is undistinguished for a professional journalist.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:03 pm
Mike Shula has kicked our ass four straight games.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:03 pm
Lovie’s SB team had Rex Grossman and was 3rd ranked O. #I’mjustsaying
January 7th, 2015 at 8:05 pm
Derrick, with all the respect in the world, please stick to being a Hall of Fame LB and do not give Lovie any ideas! He’s dumb enough to ruin our team on his own…
He makes a fair point about not putting all your eggs in one basket – however, I would also argue that it makes NO SENSE to draft Mariota and attempt to force him to play in a system that doesn’t at least highlight his attributes thereby giving both HE and US the best opportunity to succeed. There has to be a balance of both philosophies there.
Yes, Mariota is the guy. Joe, I give you a hard time about your JW nonsense (which it is, and it’s childishly overdone) however, I give you credit for your strong take that while a premier DE or OL would be great, but they can’t lead your team on a 70yd drive to win the game. They just can’t. Only a QB can do that. We can all believe in Marcus.
In other news, the woman who accused JW has now filed a federal lawsuit against FSU! To mis-quote RoboCop “draft Mariota, or there will be…. trouble.”
January 7th, 2015 at 8:08 pm
Eric, JVNootz – both very valid points! To give Tony Dungy credit, it does all come down to having the personnel to execute the plays called better than the defense defends those plays.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:09 pm
Buccaneers director of player personnel Jon Robinson being interview for Jets GM position.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:12 pm
Carolina offense under mike Shula is nothing special. Look it up.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:14 pm
Lovie stuck in his own ways as expected
January 7th, 2015 at 8:18 pm
Tom Edrington Says
“@BucBonzai: Go check Lovie’s list of past OCs, it is long and VERY undistinguished…”
You are still not providing evidence on how he “killed” their careers. If they were undistinguished, provide evidence that they were distinguished before they worked with him. Otherwise, he has only provided opportunities and they failed to capitalize on them.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:22 pm
@JVNootz
Rex Ryan ruins quarterbacks. Him being HC of Atlanta would be great for Tampa.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:25 pm
That style of offense doesn’t work anymore. Rule changes have made it prehistoric.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:30 pm
The NFL is clearly a pass first league now. Everyone (I guess except DB) knows this. You have to be able to run the ball as well but it is not the focal point anymore. The new rules have set it up this way. Defenders can breath on an offensive player too hard and its a flag. I’m worried Lovie is too set in his ways to ever be an effective HC in the NFL again. It just doesn’t work anymore.
This is the reason we need to hire Trestman. We have to have someone who is a QB guy and wants to pass the ball but isn’t so cocky that he refuses to run the ball. You must have a nice blend and Trest has those talents. Sign him L&L
January 7th, 2015 at 8:34 pm
Mike Shula? Well then Derrick I think Lovie might have some hope. I suspect Clyde Christiansen may be lured from Indy. Look at what a great job he has done with Andrew Luck! LMAO
How does this guy still have a job in the league?
January 7th, 2015 at 8:36 pm
@ Walter White
While no one can argue that the O-line ” can’t lead your team on a 70yd drive to win the game”, the current Buccaneer O-line has shown (on MANY occasions) that if they can’t stand still (false start), and can’t keep their hands where they belong (holding), and can’t form a decent wall (pass-block), it doesn’t matter what the QB is doing.
Offensively successful teams have an O-line that can support a running game and protect their QB. That is what *I* want to see as the first priority of Lovie and Co.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:39 pm
Snook is right; Carolina’s O is nothing special. With a decent qb starting for the Bucs it is very likely the Bucs would have won both matchups this season vs the Panthers. Panthers were not much better than the Bucs talent wise this year except in a few key positions like qb and TE as Greg Olson is obviously a much better talent than anything the Bucs have including their 2014 2nd round pick Captain Morgan and the simple truth that even the master of vanilla: Baby Shula could call a better game plan than the guy who L&L decided could run Tedford’s O; heck even the Raiders current OC Greg Olson would have been an upgrade over the garbage playcalling us fans were forced to watch at RJS this season; I just hope that L&L’s obvious tanking (I assume trusting Arroyo was an intentional move to lose games, else L&L are the biggest morons in the NFL since Leeman Bennett) of the O pays off with a new qb coming to Tampa in April…..
January 7th, 2015 at 8:42 pm
Makes sense to me but I’m sure it make no sense to anyone out there thinking we should draft mariotta and an offense tailor made for him…. That’s suicide and it could backfire as soon as this guy misses a game
As far as mike shula and the offense he ran well what coach wouldn’t adopt that style with that kind of defense especially a team that’s never had a franchise qb
January 7th, 2015 at 8:44 pm
@Hawk
Every one of those teams got a quarterback first to build around.
January 7th, 2015 at 8:48 pm
@Dave Pear: Last time I was a professional journalist I was interviewing the real Dave Pear and other Bucs of that era…..been out of that racket a LONG time, now, just an undistinguished comment-writer like the rest that appear here although I am the only one that provides my true identity….don’t need to hide behind a silly handle!
January 7th, 2015 at 8:51 pm
Why did Tedford say f#&k thus s%$t ? Humm
January 7th, 2015 at 8:56 pm
Brooks sounds old and out of touch lately. Great way to win the fans over with a boring as f!ck offense.
January 7th, 2015 at 9:00 pm
Rex does not ruin QBs, HE NEVER HAD ONE. Sanchez and Geno suck. Vick is in his last years and legs. Rex had the GM and ownership forcing his hand. Blank is a terrific owner and will let Rex do his thing. And his thing is defense. As I stated earlier, Ryan is a premier QB and the future of the NFL. He is read y and has 10 years of good left in him. Julio does too. Their offense will be fine. Another concern is their need for a RB and the likes of Duke Johnson and that one kid who broke records this year, both will likely be available for the Falcons to draft. And THAT is all their offense lacks.
Still, Bucs are a few pieces away from being at the least, a solid team. Maybe not playoff contenders or Super Bowl favorites, but certainly a chance to be much more competitive(and respectable) than they have been lately.
January 7th, 2015 at 9:08 pm
JVNootz
While I share your concern about the Falcons getting better and agree that Matty Ice and Julio will be a threat for another ten years…don’t they have the same problem as us…no offensive line?
January 7th, 2015 at 9:13 pm
When Brooks said that about another Mike Shula I about dropped my beverage. Maybe the game has also passed Brooks by.
January 7th, 2015 at 9:27 pm
That crap will be in style when the league allows John lynch like hits again. Never ever happening. So till then derrick i love u but stfu.
January 7th, 2015 at 10:00 pm
Everyone is living in the Dungy days. Come on. This makes me want to fire Lovie now. No wonder Tedford left. Probably had to listen to too much BS. Thats probably how his heart started f-ing up. Please don’t tell me we are doomed again. They must of learned from the beatdown the falcons and Ravens gave them. Hello 2-14!!
January 7th, 2015 at 10:06 pm
“But you’d like to see what his philosophy is, and if his philosophy marries up to different talents. … Does his philosophy fit any direction we want to go?”
This MEANS it’s either Koetter or Trestman!
January 7th, 2015 at 10:13 pm
Maybe McCown will actually be decent again if Trestman comes here?
January 7th, 2015 at 10:25 pm
Lovie the quarterback killer. He and Brooks are real close buddies, got each others back.
January 7th, 2015 at 11:19 pm
I thought the plan was us to run an “uptempo” offense. Then tedford went down and it reverted back to what it was or what lovie/arroyo knew. I don’t think love is scared of trying new schemes. Tedford was brought in for a reason and I think it was to run something similar to what tedford schemed in college.
January 7th, 2015 at 11:49 pm
Connor Says:
Maybe McCown will actually be decent again if Trestman comes here?
__________________________________________
Please. No more McCown.
January 8th, 2015 at 12:01 am
BuccaneerBonzai Said:
“@Hawk
Every one of those teams got a quarterback first to build around.”
Really? Denver signed Manning, and then built their offensive line? Seattle… same?
If so, then Lovie REALLY needs that formula where a Super Bowl caliber offensive line can be built in 1-2 years.
I’m not saying it can’t be done that way. I AM saying that with Lovie track record on O-linemen, it may take 6-8 years… or more. Now you have a QB with shell-shock and halfway through his football life expectancy.
Again… if Lovie can’t build a running game, and can’t protect the QB, then what does it matter who is getting beat up? If you get someone really good (but without the ‘line’), you’ll end up winning (maybe) half your games. You’ll always be drafting in the middle and watching other teams play in January.
January 8th, 2015 at 12:03 am
I got an idea. Take Marcus then trade for the Titans pick at two and take Winston. Surely one of them would work out.
January 8th, 2015 at 12:05 am
my worst fear dungey.2… the most overrated coach in history who’s tree sucks
January 8th, 2015 at 12:06 am
*yawn brooks speaks
January 8th, 2015 at 12:08 am
The premise of this post is absurd. It’s a chain-yanker… If Lovie really wanted to run the 90’s Shula offense, why would he have hired Jeff Tedford? Sure, Lovie is conservative, but I think it’s outrageous to claim he wants to run a pure ground-and-pound offense.
January 8th, 2015 at 1:14 am
Is Lovie talking to al sharpton too?
January 8th, 2015 at 3:14 am
Total Offense
• 2004 – 32ND
• 2005 – 29TH
• 2006 – 15TH ←Super Bowl (Ron Turner OC/Ron Rivera DC)
• 2007 – 27TH
• 2008. –26TH
• 2009 – 23RD
• 2010 – 30TH
• 2011 – 24TH
• 2012 – 28TH
• 2014 – 30TH
January 8th, 2015 at 3:23 am
THE BIG QUESTION: Lovie Smith is supposed to be a defensive guru, but what has he done without Ron Rivera & Rod Marinelli?
January 8th, 2015 at 10:17 am
Yes. Mostly everyone loved getting Tony Dungy back. Sorry Lovie Smith back. Well be careful what you wish for……
January 8th, 2015 at 10:24 am
Lovie most likely shares the same philosophy as Brooks on this, which is probably why the Bucs will be very open to trading out of the #1 spot. Many of you wanted Lovie, so here you go. He will most likely try to recreate the Bears South with a smothering D/ST and be content to control the clock on offense. He already has the QB of the future who probably fits Lovie’s vision (Glennon protects the ball well and if given some time can get the ball downfield to playmakers)
January 8th, 2015 at 11:02 am
Tom is basing his opinion on his gut feelings and his hatred of all things Lovie, not his brain.
It is no surprise that Lovie wants to run the ball wi conviction, 90 percent of NFL coaches so.
There are so many successful playoff teams committed to running the ball this year that were a tad pass happy at the beginning of the year they are to numerous to mention.
But if Lovie was so anti pass, why did he have Mike Martz as an OC for two seasons.
Get rid of all that hatred Tom, it clouds your judgement.
January 8th, 2015 at 12:51 pm
Brooks is close and loyal to his old position coach and regrettably probably telling us what happened to Tedford’s flashy attack and why Lovie didn’t want any offensive help when Tedford went down. If Lovie’s really gonna do this then this will be another defensive draft because there are still a lot of holes to fill and depth needed to rebuild Dungy’s defense.