Just Win Baby

August 26th, 2014
Former Bucs DE and coaching intern Steve White believes Bucs fans are so desperate for wins, they would accept Charles Manson if it meant a victory.

Former Bucs DE and coaching intern Steve White believes Bucs fans are so desperate for wins, they would accept Charles Manson if it meant a victory.

The vote yesterday was eye-opening and depressing. Bucs fans just don’t care.

Joe has long believed that Bucs fans, if they recognize a name no matter his background or worth, no matter what type of defense or offense he played in, think a recognizable name would better the Bucs.

That is the only logical reason Joe can gleam from widespread celebration of  news Lovie Smith was bringing in sleazy Richie Incognito for an interview. Fans recognize the name, so he must be good.

Has Incognito ever left a team, college or pro, voluntarily or in good standing? And how is it Incognito, if he was so talented, never found his way onto a roster of a good team? Strange, no?

Well, one who really is both depressed about the news and disappointed in Bucs fans is former Bucs defensive end Steve White. The local sports media cult celebrity spent time this spring as a coaching intern with Lovie and seems downright in the dumps that Bucs fans are welcoming Incognito with open arms, as if he holds the secret key to a Super Bowl win.

White, who played for the Bucs in every season Father Dungy coached the team, probably is wondering what is happening to his team. Joe can’t imagine the beloved Father Dungy ever thinking of bringing Incognito into the fold.

75 Responses to “Just Win Baby”

  1. Harry Says:

    Can Manson play either guard position?

  2. Harry Says:

    First the caveat that I love Lovie as our coach. But, lets be fair, Lovie created the problem we have at guard and compounded the situation by ignoring our obvious need there. So now we are left with nothing but bad choices to fix the problem.

  3. Buddah Says:

    I’m a fan and I don’t want him under any condition. The team narrative is much more important than people realize.

  4. deminion Says:

    Just wanna win!

  5. lightningbuc Says:

    Can we stop with the faux Father Dungy crap. Shorty after Dungy’s Michael Sam comments a month or two ago, an article was published that “Father” Dungy had 17 players get arrested while he was a head coach – and he let most of them stay after their arrest.

  6. Jim Walker Says:

    There is a big difference between harassing someone with nasty phone calls and using a golf club as a phallus while drunk at a party and the mass murder 9 people including the removal of an unborn child.

    Perspective has been lost.

  7. Chef Paul Says:

    Peter King @SI_PeterKing · 21h

    Re Incognito visit: Sign the Bucs know they’re good but badly flawed at guard

  8. BucFan20 Says:

    And how many players have found their way to the Bucs? Never to be on a good team INCLUDING the Bucs!

  9. Wombat Says:

    I don’t think Charles Manson and Richie Incognito are similar. I think what it says is that people aren’t really cared that he “bullied” a team mate. There were others on the line who did similar in Miami. It’s football people. It’s not book club. Who would you rather have covering your back, Incognito or the guy who quit football because he was bullied.
    The fact that he used the “N” word offends a lot of people, I rightly understand that. He has shown his colors. Is it better that he does it behind your back amongst “white” friends?
    My wife hates the “C” word, I don’t use it out of respect to her. She just cringes when she hears it. She has never not spoken to a person who uses it in front of her, she just changes her opinion of that person after that….

  10. Buc the Haters Says:

    Sure he’s kind of a maniac, but I personally think that offensive linemen should be a little psycho/mean & nasty. It’s definitely an advantageous demeanor for the position. Rage (controlled, hopefully) can actually make a person significantly stronger bcuz of the accompanying adrenaline rush. I say sign the guy if we think he can help us. Our high-character team leaders will police him just fine. Jonathan Martin is soft like a twinkie filling, he needed someone to try to toughen him up…. Virtually any old school tough guy would’ve acted similarly. Incognito & Rishaw Johnson could be our missing pieces that enable us to go all the way instead of falling short of our stated goal of winning the Championship this year.

  11. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Wow…..what a gift to the media…that thrives on controversy!!! And, it may be the gift that keeps on giving.
    Sure Incognito was/is a bad boy. But really, this is football and entertainment. The question is….Who is he going to bully on the Bucs? Dotson?….EDS?….Collins?….how about GMC?

    Watch out Joe, he may come after you!!!

  12. RastaMon Says:

    Well perhaps Charlie can fill in for Tredford….

  13. eric Says:

    Don’t understand disappointment by JOE anybody who has played football in the past above Pee Wee level which I doubt JOE did know the weak is the prey if you seen as the week link you are going to be picked on I bet you he was not the first and he want be the last so JOE with your I never did anything I am ashamed of get of your high horse and get over it! Remember to a man not a single Buc player went on record and said no way so agin it is not just the fans the players also understand so I will take their opinion any day over JOE!

  14. Bob Says:

    The only ones having an issue with Incognito is our beloved local media. I’ve seen national shows that say be deserves another shot and the national poll on ESPN is at 50/50 so it’s not just the local fans, that Joe seems to love to throw under the bus, that thinks this guy can help help a club. He would upgrade our talent immediately and I’m sure the contract would be constructed in a way that allow the team to walk away if he doesn’t stay in line. I’m glad our local guys are so perfect and never make any mistakes.

  15. BucsfaninChina Says:

    Dungy wouldnt take on a gay player either. Because Tony is always right.

  16. PanhandleBucGuy28 Says:

    Steve White had 11.5 career sacks in 7 seasons so he obviously wasnt a elite guy. And Charles Manson???? Really??? So if we were about to get Greg Hardy or Ray Rice then I guess we would except Ted Bundy with open arms jeez give me a break and if he was a intern coach for Lovie and Lovie decides to bring him in you expect us not to welcome him with open arms??? If the HC and the team does then god forbid the fans welcome a guy that is a obvious upgrade from what we have. Joe is hanging on to any negative thing he can find about Richie. Yall all act like the guy murdered and raped children or something. SMDH

  17. SAMCRO Says:

    What would be a shame is if the Bucs don’t sign him because of the media’s incomprehensible behavior that has been totally against the wishes of the majority. It shows how the media tries to control everything.

  18. Piratic Says:

    Yes, depressing-and shameful.

  19. Chef Paul Says:

    I think he was a scapegoat down in Miami. I haven’t read the Wells report but I know how the media is, and I know who ever is the media’s scapegoat is very rarely the real culprit. It is ALWAYS deeper than what the lazy drive-by media reports.

    I’ll accept what decision the team makes on it. If L&L and the players think it’s OK, its OK with me. and vise versa

  20. Buc'n Enough Says:

    Since when did morals in sports ever matter. Sports is big business…the fans want victories…leave the morals for church.
    Deon Sanders…Wife Beater…HOF
    Micheal Irvin..Coke Sniffer…HOF
    Ray Rice…Wife Beater
    Riley Cooper …Racist ?….you don’t here anything about that anymore

    The list goes on…the guy deserves another chance…

    Please…when did morals have anything to do with victories?

  21. Eric Says:

    This Incognito guy is a grown man, n his 30’s, he’s responsible for his own actions.

    The “coach made me do it” doesn’t wash with me. Like last year with McCoy when a coach told him not to help opposing players up. He told him to pound sand.

    The oline has improved every week. Go with what we got and the guys that have competed through camp and earned their spot.

    Not this idiot.

  22. Chef Paul Says:

    The media was QUICK to call Dungy a bigot. DUNGY!! a bigot. Are you kidding me? I dont trust a media that calls Dungy a bigot.

  23. Love and Warrick Dunn Says:


  24. Posey99 Says:

    “Bucs fans just don’t care.”

    Richie Incognito was a Pro-bowl guard in 2013… We care. He paid the price. Its time others start giving people a second chance.

  25. Dewey Selmon Says:

    Putting words in our mouths? We don’t care huh? You are really tryin to alienate your followers dude.

  26. Posey99 Says:

    “What would be a shame is if the Bucs don’t sign him because of the media’s incomprehensible behavior that has been totally against the wishes of the majority. It shows how the media tries to control everything.”


  27. NewTampaChris Says:

    Lovie and Licht have done a lot of good things so far. But they’ve badly bungled the OL and this is what they have to evaluate now. If they don’t upgrade guard and we wind up with 9.6 points per game, we’ll all lament that they DIDN’T sign Incognito.

  28. snook Says:

    “Is wondering what is happening to his team”?

    He hasn’t even been signed yet. Geez. Calm down.

  29. 911bucs Says:

    He may not be the most talented player, but way better than what we have now.

  30. 77 bassman Says:

    Joe’s you guys are totally wrong on this
    Get off you’re damn high horse! It’s funny you
    Would totally welcome that loser in cleveland

  31. dick2111 Says:

    Seriously doubt that Lovie and Jason will sign Incognito anytime soon, if at all. My guess is that they’ll first want to see how Rishaw Johnson looks at guard, and also who gets cut by the other teams. Possibility of a trade isn’t that far-fetched either.

    Our OL is very much a work-in-progress. I’m sure everyone expected that after we gutted it after last season. We all know that it takes time to build the chemistry necessary to become even an average OL.

    For all its’ faults, our OL did look decent against the Bills first team defense … most of the time. The offense did some good things I thought, and that was with a limited play selection.

    I agree with Joe and with Steve White. We’re building something good here; let’s not panic now.

  32. Mike Says:

    Not sure why this is such big news. There are many criminals and adulterers playing in the game. It sounds like these guys were giving it to each other and they are grown men.. what was done is not good but this is being blown up.. as far as I know no law was broken

  33. Nick Says:

    I feel like the local punditry is in full Bayless mode. Bill Belichick takes on a nut case almost every other year. You never hear a peep out of them while they are there. Why? Strong leadership and an expectation that any crap will lead to your immediate dismissal.

    All it should come down to: “is Incognito better than what we have”..

  34. Posey99 Says:

    …supported Johnny Manziel but not a pro-bowl guard?

  35. BoJim Says:

    I think Manson is indisposed at the moment.

  36. Zam Says:

    Kudos to Steve White. There are still a few of us Bucs fans that aren’t greedy pigs though.

  37. Joe T. Says:

    Had the Bucs actually did something in the offseason (draft or free agency) besides releasing players and not replacing them we wouldn’t be in this position.

  38. BucsfaninChina Says:

    Manson just got married to a hot baby. He must be doing something right.

  39. NewTampaChris Says:

    A Richie Incognito haiku:

    A really bad guy
    But our current OL stinks
    Let’s not lose nicely

  40. The Ether Says:

    Love that pic Joe… Looks like Charlie Manson right after spending a night out with Incognito…

  41. VABucsFan01 Says:

    Incognito is TRASH in every sense of the word. He will not be an upgrade over what we currently have on roster.

    #1 he has not played football in forever (not in football shape)
    #2 he was never really any good to begin with.
    #3 facts one and two hit so hard I don’t need a third.

    We don’t need him in a Bucs uniform let another team be the gateway to his second chance and the Bucs can look for help as cuts take place.

  42. SAMCRO Says:


    No, you’re just holier than thou schmucks.

  43. DooshLaRue Says:

    Why the hate for Manson, Joe?
    He obviously knew how to motivate his “team”!
    ; )

  44. AF_Buc Says:

    The media’s assault continues…

  45. BucFanForever Says:

    Buddah, you got it all backwards.

    When you are winning, everyone gets along great and is a “team.”

    When you are losing, everyone starts fighting and disagreeing, and it becomes a mess.

    The team-culture is built from how you are performing, not the other way around. I like to think of it as a marriage. A ton of people, who are completely in love, get married and everything is great. Then someone loses a job, their finances deteriorate, and then the marriage falls apart.

    Winning binds people together, no matter their backgrounds and personalities.

    Think back to the Super Bowl Bucs. If they had failed to win the Super Bowl, then it is likely that most of their teammates would be tired of Warren Sapp, Jon Gruden, and Keyshawn Johnson, and you would still hear a decent amount of negative rumbling about those guys. They got their rings, and now all that is said is pretty much positive.

  46. kingpin Says:

    Hey which is worse? Ray Rice for beating his own wife,or a guy who picks on a another football player?

  47. phil Says:

    A bit overly dramatic, don’t you think Joe? Sure, it would be great for a fan if the team that they follow could field a 53 man team with high character guys AND be competitive. I think that a more realistic and proven approach is for a team is to bring in the best players available that they sincerely believe they can guide through a season successfully. If we don’t allow lovie and his staff to make such decisions, then we should just continue on the coaching carousel that we’ve been on for the past decade.
    This is not to say that incognito isn’t a high risk. I would go as far as to say that it’s doubtful in my mind that signing him is a good idea. Every year, there are stories in the NFL that are huge surprises to fans and media; guys that were written off by most, and exceeded expectations. I choose to give lovie licht and company the freedom to take educated risks, (they have more info than any of us.) that certainly shouldn’t be equated to a willingness to abandon morality within the team.
    Step off the 24 hour ESPN news cycle for a moment, and give the regime that we have trusted our team to the freedom to make tough choices.

    Steve White spent weeks inside the Lovie regime as a D-line coaching intern this year. He played six years for Dungy. His opinions are relevant, not “overly dramatic.” –Joe

  48. flmike Says:

    This all falls in line with Lovie’s total non-comprehension of HOW F&*KING IMPORTANT offense actually is in winning in the NFL….

  49. Buc the Haters Says:

    Yea, I sincerely hope the Bucs front doesn’t listen to/read the local media stories and think those are te pulse of the fanbase and therefore not sign the guy. That would suck. Read the comments, L & L!!!! That’s where the true pulse of the fanbase can be read. Not in the out-of-touch-with-reality & biased story above.

    Like someone said above: If you’re weak and soft and you’re trying to play football, you are going to be picked on until you either toughen/harden up or quit. It’s been like that forever. Soft/weak people have no place in this game, period. This is an extremely violent game, Joe. Physical and/or mental weakness hurts the team.

  50. Aceofaerospace Says:

    I think a lot, if not most of us fans that are open to the idea of the Bucs signing Ingognito, either said or implied it was a good idea if it upgrades the position and doesn’t lock the bucs into a long term high cap contract. I trust Lovie to control the locker room and hold every player accountable for their level of play and their overall contribution/detriment to the team.

  51. Joseph Mamma Says:

    Is Charles Manson cleared to play? If you can pick him up on waivers, sign him immediately.

  52. Whatever Says:

    The media reports what happens. Stop blaming them. If Dungy didn’t diss the gay dude the media wouldn’t have had anything to report. If Incognito wasn’t a jerk of major proportions then there would be nothing to say. When commentators, columnists and bloggers give opinion it is just that, opinion. They either echo the crap you hear at the water cooler or they take extreme opinions to get you to pay attention. Either way, they mirror the public.

  53. andres Says:

    Sometimes you crack me up Joe. Good job with this one.

    I’m with Joseph Mamma, SIGN MANSON NOW!

  54. Delson Says:

    I voted yes because he is an upgrade to our oline. Cousins? Joe are u kidding me? Cousins should be a camp body that has already been bodied!! No way should he be on the roster. Did u know the guard position affects how the tackle position is played? Imagine the actual running lanes we’d have.

  55. don Says:

    We need a guard with the ‘eyes” of Charles Manson 🙂
    What exactly did Incognito do again to deserve all this negativity?

  56. DailyRich Says:

    Incognito didn’t do anything that isn’t done in every single NFL locker room by players of every race. He just did it to someone who went to the media about it. Dolphins players were willing to have Incognito back — hell, some even campaigned for it — so I don’t see how he’d be this instant cancer. If Lovie gives him a come-to-Jesus meeting and gets his head on straight, and if Incognito comes in and does the right things, I don’t see why he doesn’t deserve a second chance, especially when Ray Rice gets cheered at his first game this season by Ravens fans.

  57. Jeagan1999 Says:

    HYPERBOLE ALERT!! Seriously, comparing a incognito to a viscous, murderous psychopath like Charles Manson? No one is saying Incognito is Mother Theresa, but to categorize him in the same breath as Manson is extreme and intellectually dishonest. In my mind, Incognito is still head and shoulders above guys like Mike Vick and Ray Rice! Joe (or anyone else) can not like him as a person or player, they can question his ability, they can even believe he is bad for team morale ….but to liken him to a murderer like Charlie Manson is just flat out wrong. I say, if he can play and help the team….AND he does not disrupt team chemistry, then give him a chance to redeem his image….something that a lot of other players who did a lot worse off the field have already gotten…without being compared to Manson!

  58. Orca Says:

    Joe, I think you mean “glean”, not “gleam”


  59. Red86 Says:

    Well Sapp wasn’t a saint. Plus, this is proof that L & L are serious about winning. They realized that they over estimated things. They doing what they can to fix the problem. It’s funny how everyone said Incognito wasn’t someone the Bucs be interested in. Now majority of them are upset.

  60. gotbbucs Says:

    None of this would be an issue had they not gone crazy and put all their eggs in the Carl Nicks basket this offseason.

    Richie is an asshole with some demons and tons of baggage, Oneil Cousins will get McCown and Martin killed. Take your pick. Without Incognito, we are hanging our season on the hope that someone servicable gets released and that we can get them signed.

    I dont think anybody would prefer this if they had their druthers, but the options are slim.

  61. Capt.Tim, Back from Davie Jones's Locker Says:

    I think the Media around here has made the same lifestyle choices as Jonathan Martin!
    With all this unjustified hatred of Ritchie- I think all of them were lil sissies , getting pushed around, and losing their lunch money.

    Don’t worry ladies. I’m sure incognito doesn’t need your lunch money any more.
    How do you get to be a local sports guy? Flunk outta hair dressing school?

  62. Orca Says:

    ^^ Nice that part of proving your manhood involves calling others “sissies” or “ladies”. Your schtick is old and backwards. Bashing Jonathan Martin. Nice compassion, buddy.

  63. Cobraboy Says:

    “Buc fans just don’t care.”

    What a load of baloney!

    IMO, some have really jumped the shark with Incognito.

    I agree with gotbucs: “Richie is an asshole with some demons and tons of baggage, Oneil Cousins will get McCown and Martin killed. Take your pick.’

    I suspect the stout Kittie DL is game planning, as I type, to kick the crap out of the Bucs soft Guards. I know I would…relentlessly. Incognito-or ANY guard of that caliber-changes that plan completely.

    The boy can play. Look at film. He’s big, strong and nasty, somewhat like Frank Middleton (remember him?)

    Martin is a complete wuss. Saving texts to send to mommy lawyer because the mean men were not being nice to him? Puh-leeze…

  64. Netwalker Says:

    It’s interesting that Joe would use a Steve White quote. White seems to be a rac… er… have a strong racial bias based on his past comments. He saw no fault in Trayvon Martin beating Zimmerman unmercifully, blaming everything on Zimmerman. Yet now he’s concerned about bullying. Incognito is white of course. Curious.

    Joe’s got no clue who you got to the Trayvon Martin case. –Joe

  65. bucrightoff Says:

    It’s the freaking NFL. Lets see, we’ve had, and continue to have…

    Wife beaters
    Drunk drivers
    Drunk drivers who’ve killed others
    PCP addicts
    Pill addicts

    So Incognito still rates as less than that, and people are crying about signing him? Yeah, ideally you’d win with 53 of the highest character guys. But welcome to reality, it doesn’t happen.

  66. Buccfan37 Says:

    I don’t remember Charles Manson murdering anybody. He did’nt even write Helter Skelter on the wall.

  67. billy buckaroo Says:

    I would like to know who is really behind this look at Incognito
    Is it Lovie or someone else?
    Who made the call to bring in him – REALLY?
    A lot of speculation and Lovie is saying it like its an organization decision but he has to say that.
    Who made the decision to actually get all this nonsense started?
    Im fairly certain it was not “JOE”

  68. Orca Says:

    Netwalker Says:
    August 26th, 2014 at 10:41 am

    It’s interesting that Joe would use a Steve White quote. White seems to be a rac… er… have a strong racial bias based on his past comments. He saw no fault in Trayvon Martin beating Zimmerman unmercifully, blaming everything on Zimmerman. Yet now he’s concerned about bullying. Incognito is white of course. Curious.

    You have no clue what you’re talking about. In the future, you should probably think again before pressing submit.

  69. AF_Buc Says:

    @ “whatever”,

    Actually, no, the media is not being a reflection of the fanbase in this case. A poll taken on this site shows 80% of fans in favor of bringing incognito in, so an all out assault on a man who hasn’t been arrested for any crime but ALSO served an 8 game suspension is (and I stand by this) a media assault.

  70. Skyline Crew Says:

    Are you mad at yourself Joe? I remember not too long ago all your ranting over Johnny Football. How’s that working out for Johnny Bench? Good thing we didn’t listen to you on that one.

    Johnny Football plays for the Browns. Joe doesn’t care or write about the Browns. Yes, Joe lobbied for Johnny Football before the draft. Joe would do it again. –Joe

  71. Netwalker Says:

    “Joe’s got no clue who you got to the Trayvon Martin case. –Joe”

    Netwalker has no clue what this sentence means. In my post above I am referring to Steve White’s own blog. He wrote extensively about his (biased) perspective in blaming Zimmerman over Martin, seeing no fault in Martin’s pounding of Z. Now he’s got a problem with the bullying actions of Incognito who is white. It’s just interesting how color ‘colors’ his view.

    If he was more even handed in opinion his word might be worth something. You cited him as if he is some kind of authority on bullying when it’s clear he has his own issues. It seems fair under these circumstances to point out his historical bias. Is there a racial component in his perspective? Based on his own written history, it seems possible.

    Dude, Joe never cited White as an authority on bullying. Where do you come up with this stuff? White played for the Bucs and coached for the Bucs this year. There’s his credibility. –Joe

  72. Orca Says:

    ^ Your facts are all screwed up.

  73. Netwalker Says:

    “Dude, Joe never cited White as an authority on bullying. Where do you come up with this stuff? White played for the Bucs and coached for the Bucs this year. There’s his credibility. –Joe”

    Fine. I’m just adding some context to the ‘credibility’ that you attest to him. If Charles Manson spoke well of Incognito (you posted the picture), one might consider his remarks in context of his own history as well.

  74. jjtixs Says:

    steve whites a scrub………..he didnt mention anyth/ negitve about VICK OR RICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WONDER WHY!

  75. Cannuckbuc Says:

    Hey Joe
    This is WAY over the top! I get you don’t like this guy but a Manson referance ,really poor taste