Freeman Fighting Fan Opinion, History

August 18th, 2013

In modern NFL history, what NFL quarterbacks have been granted a sixth season as a starter — with the same team — without making the playoffs?

Our fans are our stockholders. They’re what we play for — the people in our stadium and the ones that watch on TV. That’s what it’s all about: winning and how they feel about the team. If they don’t feel good about the team, then there’s something wrong. . . I think you all know the sense that’s out there. It was time for a change.” — Bucs owner Bryan Glazer following the firing of Chucky in 2009.

Remember when Team Glazer fired Chucky?

After consecutive 9-7 seasons (with less talent than the 2013 Buccaneers), Jon Gruden was ousted and Team Glazer publicly stated they made the change, in large part, because they knew fans wanted a different direction.

Team Glazer said they took the pulse of the fans, heard their desires for regime change and took them to heart.

So with that knowledge, Joe will assert that Josh Freeman has no shot of scoring another long term contract with the Bucs without having a majority of fans in his corner. Why would Team Glazer make Freeman the face of the franchise for about $20 million per season (what it surely will cost) if fans don’t approve?

Of course, if the Bucs make the playoffs this season, then Freeman’s future likely is a very easy call for Team Glazer. But history tells Joe that could be Freeman’s only chance.

What quarterbacks in NFL history have gotten a sixth consecutive season as a starter from a team without making the playoffs?

It’s a question Joe’s been studying for a while. Vinny Testeverde may be the only one in the modern era. The bumbling Bucs of the Hugh Culverhouse era gave Testeverde a six-year, $8.2 million rookie contract after he was drafted in 1986. And Vinny played out the deal in Tampa.

(Joe would love to hear if any readers can identify another QB that got a sixth season as a starter with one team without making the playoffs.)

Testaverde did not play in the win-now NFL. Freeman does. In Testaverde’s era, coaches took over teams to execute four- and five-year rebuilding plans. Nowadays, coaches are on the proverbial hot seat in their second season. Quarterbacks don’t get sixth seasons without winning.

Yes, every team situation is different. But as it becomes clearer that Freeman is the most polarizing figure on the Bucs (and as the Mike Glennon Mob grows), Joe feels it’s worth noting the off-the-field factors in Freeman’s way. To ignore them in the debate would be irresponsible.

151 Responses to “Freeman Fighting Fan Opinion, History”

  1. Lev Says:

    All I have to say is Glennon looked nice. If Glennon is at least just as good as Freeman then we could save millions of dollars by letting Freeman walk. We could then invest that money into resigning our own players and maybe getting a stud DE in free agency.

  2. Vic Says:

    Glazers aren’t dumb enough to give Freeman six years without playoffs or a Pro Bowl. You don’t invest in mediocre.

  3. Name Required Says:

    Does anyone else get the sense that Freeman never wanted to be here?

    Every interview and every action just gives off the vibe of someone doing enough just to finish and get out of the room.

    Maybe it’s just me, but he just looks and acts like he’s been a short-timer from day one. Reminds me of guys I knew in the Navy that hated their duty station and kept their mouths shut, went through the routines, did their 3 -4 years and transferred quick.

  4. lightningbuc Says:

    Another question: What GMs in NFL history have got a 6th season without making the playoffs?

  5. Biff Barker Says:

    Dear Glazers, I don’t feel good about the team.
    Schiano’s defense and that goofy franchise QB failure are bringing me down man.

  6. Biff Barker Says:

    On a serious note, I came back as a fan to Ray Jay because the owners brought in a serious coach and money was spent on players.
    After the third and last home game I went to, the consensus among the folks nearby was watching Freeman just was a waste of money.
    As long as he’s under center I’m not going.

  7. Tom Says:

    Not so fast people on freeman being a washout, I think if his o-line stays healthy and the offense stays healthy and the defense they have now can produce at a high level and stay healthy the sky’s the limit for the BUCS and I don’t care what the ney sayer football people say we can win or compete in the NFC south and in the league for that matter

  8. pruritus ani Says:

    Joe would love to hear if any readers can identify another QB that got a sixth season a starter with one team without making the playoffs

    There is no such animal.

  9. Raphael Says:

    The Media is generating a lot of malice towards Freeman in order to perpetuate a story….very sad and pathetic.Its so easy instead of looking at the REAL reasons.The Glazers are not as Dumb as some of the fans and Media..Freeman is going to be here along time and will have a great year…..I will lmao if Free leaves because he will be a pro bowl QB and some loser fans will just blame it on something else besides their lack of football knowledge .

  10. BamBamBuc Says:

    Joe: It’s Alex Smith. He got his to his 6th season as starter without even having had a winning season, much less a playoff game. His best record in the first 5 seasons was 7-9. It was, however, his 6th season as starter that got the 49ers to a 13-3 record and playoff appearance. Not too shabby, and followed up by a 6-2-1 start last season before injury brought in Kaepernick.

  11. Doubting Thomas Says:

    Off topic but why does Freeman get so little work in preseason games? Brady played about 4 times as many snaps. And all can agree he was way more sharp than Free. I don’t know what that means but to me he looks like he needs a lot more work. Until he looks capable he should play a lot of snaps like Sanchez did 10 series last night. In the 3rd preseason game I’d like to see Glennon play the 1st 2 series with the ones and then Free play like the next 10 series. It’s great to hear Joe tell us how awesome Free looks in practice, I’d love to see it in a game.

  12. the_buc_realist Says:

    i was going to say Alex Smith, but they made the playoffs in his 6th season. how many years did David Carr play. You would have to be a first round selection to be even given 5 years and no playoffs.

  13. SteveK Says:

    Hey Raphael,

    Check out this article about your boy Josh:

  14. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    Ryan Fitzpatrick

  15. Adam L. Says:

    I heard an interview with Drew Brees a while back and he said things started clicking for him around his 50th game.

    By that rationale, you should know what you have in a QB halfway through his third full season, 4th at the most.

  16. Scotty in Fat Antonio Says:

    I think Ronde Barber’s comment the other night that “Freeman cannot carry this team” was very telling.

    Not that us fans are as knowledgeable as the Bucs FO or coaching staff, but this eerily reminds me of the whole Barrett Ruud (clown shoes) situation. How is that working for Ruud now? I don’t even think he is even on an NFL roster right now. He last played for the Houston Texans last year.

    As we have other contracts coming up next year, we will not be able to resign everyone. Only those that are “progressing” ala Gerald McCoy. Not even sure if Davin Joseph needs to return.

  17. SteveK Says:

    If the streaky Freeman play continues, and no playoffs in 2013, Seeya later.

    Sorry, Raphael, but Freeman needs to show measurable improvement and that he is a winner.

    Right now he is “mistake prone, and unable to carry the offense”.

    The talent is there, is the mental wear with all present?

    Hope he clicks and we make a helluva a run.

    If “bad Josh” comes out, throw Glennon in the fire.

  18. BamBamBuc Says:

    Matt Schaub is another interesting one. 3 years as a backup in Atlanta before going to Houston. His first 5 seasons as a starter there had no playoff appearances and 9-7 being his best record. It wasn’t until his 6th season as starter last year when the Texans went 12-4 with Schaub at the helm and made the playoffs.

  19. Kennedy Says:

    Alex Smith was NOT the starter in 2008 and 2009 and only got in because of injury. He does not compare in this example.

  20. BFFL Says:

    A 20M/yr QB shouldn’t need everything around him to be perfect in order to produce. if the OL is not playing well, then you sit them down as a group and demand better. All the great QBs have the respect to act in that capacity. Do you really think Brady would just walk over to the sideline and say nothing if his OL was playing poorly.

  21. Macabee Says:

    The Glazers are fair people. They are the NFC’s wealthiest franchise. They know that they only started to seriously invest in the Bucs 2 years ago!

  22. Macabee Says:

    correction: NFC- South’s wealthiest franchise

  23. SteveK Says:

    Thanks for the Drew Brees interview piece.

    Freeman has had 56 starts, so it should be “clicking” time for him.

    I am excited for Josh, I hope he can stand tall and deliver the ball. If not, Glennon looks to have some upside.

    Teddy Bridgewater may be here next year?

  24. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    ^^^ only rational people think that way Mac …lol

  25. Keith Says:

    Except Matt Schaub is far better than Freeman. He made a Pro Bowl in 2009 and was dominant in 2011.

  26. joseph mamma Says:

    There would be no Mike Glennon mob if Freeman won. There would be no mike glennon period if Freeman played great last year.

  27. Chef Paul Says:

    At you can get a graph comparing our QBs measuables. Freeman has a better score than Glennon in every category except for height. Freeman scored one point higher on the wonderlic test which is 6 more percentage points. MY eyeball test shows Glennon is smarter though. But what do I know, I’m just a fan. Who knows what Glennon will be like next year after a full season studying the playbook. It seems to me the Glazers and Dom and Schiano will have to make a tough decision no matter what the result of the season is. Barring a NFC championship game or Super Bowl. But that’s very unlikely….. Or a complete and total meltdown by Freeman.

  28. Jacko101 Says:

    Freeman can be a top 10 qb he has to be mobile, stop starring down Wideouts and protect the ball. If he does that he will be a Buc for a long time. I believe he can do it.

  29. Andrew 1 Says:

    “Team Glazer said they took the pulse of the fans, heard their desires for regime change and took them to heart.”

    yes, there’s some truth. but let me ask you, did they take the fans into consideration when they hired Raheem Morris? No. I remember when they hired him and he gave his introduction speech, I was thinking to myself, Really? This guy? This is they best they could find? so in the end the Glazers are going to do what they think is best for the team and we as fans just have to hope that its the right move. for the record I really like the Schiano hiring.

  30. BamBamBuc Says:

    Carr started 5 years and didn’t get to his 6th season as a starter. Of course much of that is due to the fact he never had even a winning season either. And, unlike Alex Smith, hadn’t really shown any promise to be a winning QB. None of these QBs compare to Freeman though. Alex Smith and Carr were #1 overall picks, given a bit more latitude than Freeman as a #17 pick. Schaub was a backup the Texans took a shot could be a starter Freeman was the 3rd QB taken in his draft, was expected to sit his rookie year and learn before starting, but started anyway when the other guys were horrible. A similarity with Freeman and Smith is they were both 21 when entering the league and didn’t have much success early, but truth be told Freeman has had 2 seasons out of 4 as good or better than any of Smith’s first 5 already.

  31. Bucs fan from VA Says:

    I would not be shocked if Glennon beats Freeman out for the starting job. If that happens no way Freeman returns next year.

  32. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    Biff Barker Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 9:30 am
    On a serious note, I came back as a fan to Ray Jay

    What? You mean you left before? Now that’s a fair weather fan. It’s one thing to be upset with certain players and with the team, but to quit being a fan because your team doesn’t meet your conditions or expectations is another. How disappointing. I have been a Buc fan forever. I have been pissed. I went through 10 years of consecutive double digit losses but I never wavered being a fan. This is what being a fan today is?

  33. Joe Says:

    Fellas, Schaub’s Texans made the playoffs in his FIFTH season there.

  34. Andrew 1 Says:

    how many season are we talking about here. Freeman has played in 3.5 seasons.

  35. Buc'n Junkie Says:


    The answer is Ryan Fitzpatrick. The Bills last playoff appearance was in 1999. Fitz has been in the league and has been the starter for 3 different teams for 8 years and has never taken any of his teams to the playoffs.

  36. SteveK Says:


    You just don’t drop a 100 million dollar contract on a QB that can’t perform consistently well enough to give his team a chance to win.

    We need to see sustained progress from #5.

  37. Raphael Says:

    Listen, the Bucs will win this year and it will be because of the Defense AND Josh Freeman , and special teams. We would of been in the playoffs last year if not for the worst pass defense in the HISTORY of the NFL….just to look past your hate filled glasses and see its a 3 phase team sport.

  38. vortexx66 Says:

    At the moment to not start Freeman is by far the most insane concept I have heard. Glennon is not close to being ready. To all the fans that are calling for the benching of Freeman relax… it is not going to happen, he is a much better alternative to Glennon. Let the season play out, maybe we get “six flags”, or possibly Freeman turns the corner and puts it all together. Either way we will not know until the season progresses. I am a Bucs fan, good or bad I root for them. I will not call for the ousting of the starting quarter back until he has a fair chance to prove himself. Freeman deserves our support as fans, he is a baby, 24 years old. Also how many coaches has he had? He will be in the same system for the second year. Lets see what happens… Good luck to you Freeman, many of us are rooting for you to succed.

  39. Joe Says:

    @Buc-N-Junkie- Fitzpatrick didn’t get a sixth consecutive season as a starter from the same team. You’re answering a question that isn’t here.

  40. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    sorry Joe, you said with one team. 🙁

  41. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    Hint? Is he playing now?

  42. gotbbucs Says:

    Here’s the thing. If you’re happy with an average QB, then Freeman is your man. He will never be a true franchise QB. We would have seen that player by now if it was in there, but it’s not. He’s just good enough to win one or two big games a year, but only if the stars line up just right.
    There isn’t a chance in hell any coach or GM in the NFL is foolish enough to give him a $20 million dollar contract. He will walk at the end of the year, maybe before.

  43. BamBamBuc Says:

    Alex Smith sat out the 2008 season on IR with a broken bone in his shoulder. He was the starter in every season except the one he was injured (Much like Stafford is the starter of the Lions, although he’s missed much of his first two seasons with shoulder injuries). He did not come in to the 2009 season as a backup, he started the first game of the season and had more starts than any other QB on the roster.

    And to say that Schaub is better??? His best record before last year was 9-7 with no playoffs. He made the Pro-Bowl, well I believe Freeman was an alternate after the 2010 season. Schaub sat for 3 YEARS!!! learning the NFL before getting his 5 years as a starter, Freeman doesn’t even have 4 FULL years as a starter and came in half way through his rookie year with 2 different offenses already in place. Think of that… Schaub was in the NFL 8 years before having his 9th season be 12-4 and playoffs. Alex Smith, due to injury, was a 5 year starter plus one year on IR before his 7th season in the NFL went 13-3 and playoffs.

  44. Sashimi Says:

    Freeman has to prove he’s an upper-third QB this season, otherwise only a complete fool would pay him what he’ll command. Let Arizona and the rest of the loser franchises fight for him if that’s the case

  45. Architek Says:

    Throw out all sensible discussion when talking Freeman. He has yet to prove anything but he’s consistently – inconsistent. One could point out that his lack of continuity and coaching changes is the reason but the counterpoint is the film dating back to college shows the same trends and habits.

    I trust the Glazers when it comes to their money and what’s best for this franchise. I know for sure they want to win with recent free agent signings. Freeman should not have a long leash but neither should we just throw Glennon out there because he’s not ready.

    Joe is right the only “playoff” hope is Freeman but based on his sample so far he’s not going to be enough to get us into the post-season. If he does then its still no lock to be a franchise qb long term. I am ok either way but I just don’t buy the what else can you get mindset because that’s the Arizona Cardinals, Buffalo Bills and others that marry horrid quarterbacks.

    Personally I wouldn’t do it – I would franchise him and see what Glennon has to offer. Then trade him for a blockbuster deal.

    I’m not wild about freeman but I trust that the Glazers will do what’s best.

  46. Greig Says:

    Joe would love to hear if any readers can identify another QB that got a sixth season as a starter with one team without making the playoffs.
    The loser that is Archie Manning managed to get a pull of a whole decade with the Saints without even having a single winning season (most of them being double digit loss seasons).
    I swear if it weren’t for the success of his boys he would be regarded as a complete joke but somehow their talent and achievement s have polished the turd that was his career.
    Norm Snead of the Eagles, Dan Pastorini of the Oilers, Bill Kenney of the Chiefs, Sonny Jurgensen of the Skins, John Brodie of the Niners, Dan Fouts of the Chargers (maybe the only “silver lining” example), Jim Zorn of the Seahawks, it far from unheard of but looking at the names it doesn’t offer much hope if Josh doesn’t mentally get it together this year(which is not going to happen).

  47. BamBamBuc Says:

    Disagree Joe…

    Matt Schaub – Houston Texans

    2007: 4-7
    2008: 6-5
    2009: 9-7 (no playoffs due to tie-breakers)
    2010: 6-10
    2011: 7-3

    That’s 5….

    and 2012: 12-4

    Texas made the playoffs in 2011. Not sure what you’re missing. –Joe

  48. Architek Says:

    Joe any update on the track participant – turned football player?

  49. Bobby Says:

    ^^^^That’s what I was thinking^^^ Freeman isn’t in his 5th year as a starter. Besides that, I don’t know why everyone was so upset at that last pre-season game. Freeman didn’t throw a pick six. He got sacked multiple times, yes…but that says as much about our O-line as it does about Free getting rid of the ball too late. Then he throws a great pass to the sidelines and the ball hits the receiver right in the hands but…..dropped. Martin gets zero yards but no one is calling for Doug’s head. C’mon, the whole offense sucked but we only got two series. There is no reason to think it would have gone on like that the entire game. How many times did we have a lead on teams last year only to see them get in gear and start scoring (Giants especially come to mind) I just don’t see the sense in panicking over two series in a preseason game when our two starting guards weren’t even in the game. This week will be a much better indicator. If we struggle like that for an entire half then we’ll know there’s a problem. Until then I’m not going to draw any conclusions.

    As for the Ronde Barber comment…that can be said about every QB in the league except Brees, Brady and Rogers. Those are the only three I can think of that can put the offense on their backs and carry the team. Every other QB in the league is like Freeman…prone to mistakes.

  50. Buc'n Junkie Says:


    Wow! I totally had forgotten about Archie. Thanks for that.

    Of course I’ve been sitting here thinking of only current players, but I still wouldn’t have thought of Archie.

  51. BamBamBuc Says:

    And remember, with Schaub that was after 2004-6 was as a backup in Atlanta. So, Freeman had a better record in his 2nd year than Schaub in his 3rd (6th?), and also missed the playoffs due to tie-breaks (although at 10-6 rather than 9-7).

  52. RaShad Says:

    People always fall in love with the new guy. I have seen Glennon look ok against back ups. I’ve seen Josh lead the team to a 10-6 season in 2010, when he was allowed to leave the pocket. If it wasn’t for the horrible call on K2 against the Lions that would have been an 11-5 season and a PLAYOFFS appearance. The 2011 season was horrid, but it was not all on Freeman. Last year Josh put us in position to win the Washington, Philly games, kept us in the games against the Falcons and Aints (the first game around). If the defense would have held up thats 11 wins right there. All I’m saying is the grass is not always greener on the other side. We need some pass rushers IMO. Hand the ball off to Doug and whoever else is back there, Josh should make a couple of throws and then you have the makings of a winning team and the silence of the bandwagon/freeman haters.

  53. Jim Says:

    So, if Freeman doesn’t cut the mustard and stick around, do they draft a quarterback early in next years draft?

  54. Vic Says:

    Texans were division champs in 2011 BamBam … … You others might want to do your homework on the ancient QBs, too

  55. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    ^^^ I think so, especially if we crap the pot like some analyst predict.

  56. Couch Fan Says:

    Joe I agree with you that If Freeman doesn’t make the playoffs last year, his future here is bleak.

    But I totally disagree that Freeman has to win the fans over. All Freeman has to do is lead to wins. That’s it. If he can do that on a consistent basis, the Fans will fall right back in line. Thats all we want is a winner again. So Far though, Freeman does not look, or act like a winner on the field.

    Heck as you can tell in these comments, some fans dont even mind mediocrity or losing as long as he wins the passing yards super bowl.

  57. Couch Fan Says:

    lead his team to wins*

  58. Couch Fan Says:

    this year* gosh sorry for the typos, thats what i get for typing before im fully awake lol

  59. Buc'n Junkie Says:


    You can’t change the mob mentality. This is the entitlement era that we live in. Everybody wants it now and somehow think that their are Russel Wilson’s just falling out of the skies.

  60. BamBamBuc Says:

    Schaub never played a playoff game in 2011, it was TJ Yates at QB due to injury. So Schaub was QB for 5 seasons without a playoff appearance. We’re talking QB’s, not teams. Schaub may have put them in position to get there, but wasn’t the QB. So… Are we back to the team vs QB argument?

  61. Andrew 1 Says:

    All I want to know is what day the cut downs are.

  62. chef paul Says:

    Don’t forget. We play the fins in the regular season too. So don’t be surprised of we stink it up again. This might not be the most advantageous preseason to get any accurate assessments of our team.

  63. BamBamBuc Says:

    Also interesting about Schaub… Top 10 defense the past 2 playoff seasons, bottom 10 in non-playoff years except the 9-7 season when they were 13th… Hmmm, sounds familiar.

  64. Buc'n Junkie Says:


    Seems we just can’t catch a break. Hopefully they don’t have joint practices together either.

  65. Couch Fan Says:

    All I want to know is what day the cut downs are.


    the 27 is the 1st cut and I believe the 31st is the 2nd

  66. Pewter Bullion Says:

    Name Required Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 9:17 am
    Does anyone else get the sense that Freeman never wanted to be here?

    Every interview and every action just gives off the vibe of someone doing enough just to finish and get out of the room.

    Maybe it’s just me, but he just looks and acts like he’s been a short-timer from day one. Reminds me of guys I knew in the Navy that hated their duty station and kept their mouths shut, went through the routines, did their 3 -4 years and transferred quick.


    I’m ex-military myself. I KNOW what you are describing. I’ve seen it PLENTY of times myself. I agree, Freeman doesn’t really have the passion of a Buc, because (probably due to his agent) he knows someone else will pick him up…

    Freeman could care less about the Bucs, he only cared when there were no other options for him (2010)…

    Get rid of this unmotivated CANCER unless he shows otherwise…

    The CB Leonard (from Largo) is only SO talented, but will give his ALL…

    I want that hunger from my QB, but I’m not getting it…

    I’ve said it before, and will say it again: Freeman isn’t on your side, because he’s only a fake *** POLITICIAN…

  67. chef paul Says:

    @ Junkie

    Who knows, maybe schiano doesn’t hold Philbin to as high of a standard as belichick and open the playbook a tad more.

  68. Buc'n Junkie Says:


    Josh needs to play an entire half, or at least a quarter. Manning and Wilson played a quarter last night. Even Sanchez put in some work. I personally want to know where he is at in his second season. Inquiring minds want to know?

  69. JoeG Says:

    Look at Drew Brees between 2001-2005. at his best, went 9-7 twice…. If the Chargers went to the playoffs in either of those years, it was more of being in a weak AFC West than because of his skills as a QB.

    In an almost identical situation to the Bucs, the Chargers drafted Rivers allowing Brees to hit FA.

    As far as the Pats game, the Bucs were Playing against a team that they will face again in less than 6 weeks, and had a rather poor performance….. It’s not a reason to panic, unless you are too shortsighted to realize that fact.

    If they play the Pats again with the same result… ie, not a snowballs chance in hell, it will be time to re-evaluate the expectations…. But until then, I’m still on board with whatever plan that Sullivan and Schiano have laid out for the team.

    I am however hoping that the plan calls for seeing more time for the starters… It sure looks like they need it!

  70. chris Says:

    I really think Glennon is getting the reps to prepare him. I think the staff already knows/sees what they have in Josh Freeman.

    I’m sorry, but for the several fans here who think Arizona and NY Jets are going to be a cake in the park/2 easy wins, have a rude awakening, in my opinion. I can easily see this team at 0-4 just as easily I can see them at 2-2 or 3-1 going into the BYE.

  71. Couch Fan Says:

    Agreed Chris

    4-0 or 0-4 I believe will depend on Freeman. I also believe as the season goes on the defense will gel together and get much better… I dont expect them to shut anyone out though for a few weeks at least.

    If Freeman can start out the season hot, that will bold well for the rest of the season. If not….. well, I dont even want to think about it.

  72. chris Says:

    JoeG Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 11:10 am
    Look at Drew Brees between 2001-2005. at his best, went 9-7 twice…. If the Chargers went to the playoffs in either of those years, it was more of being in a weak AFC West than because of his skills as a QB.

    In an almost identical situation to the Bucs, the Chargers drafted Rivers allowing Brees to hit FA.

    As far as the Pats game, the Bucs were Playing against a team that they will face again in less than 6 weeks, and had a rather poor performance….. It’s not a reason to panic, unless you are too shortsighted to realize that fact.

    If they play the Pats again with the same result… ie, not a snowballs chance in hell, it will be time to re-evaluate the expectations…. But until then, I’m still on board with whatever plan that Sullivan and Schiano have laid out for the team.

    I am however hoping that the plan calls for seeing more time for the starters… It sure looks like they need it!


    Yeah, but Drew Brees was extremely smart and intelligent. Also, once Rivers was drafted, it was a wake up call, as he looked magnificant in TC and Preseason to hold off Rivers and then carried it into the season in San Diego.

    Freeman has looked like garbage. It hasn’t woken him up. You just get a different sense from Freeman to Glennon. Glennon looks like a franchise QB. Freeman has that deer in headlight stare.

  73. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    This is the NFC South, you have to be great to win this division. Freeman has flashes of brilliance but clearly is not great.

    The Buc’s prescription to fix six years without a playoff was to hire a coach who never won his conference in 11 straight years. He was one game above .500 because he scheduled the service academies once or twice every year.

    There is no greatness on this team but Jadaveon Clowney will be available in the 2014 draft.

    Schiano will be coaching special teams some where in three years.

  74. TAC Says:

    West Point graduate O coordinator will weed-wack if that short timer attitude is correct.

    I don’t know what to make of Freeman myself in a Military sense, retired myself.

    I’d like to re-emphasize the mission on his azz at times also. Everything I see from him is late, reads, throws, and getting rid of the ball when things around him breakdown.

    Go back to the mobile Josh, and don’t force the ball. Oh, and fix the f’n Defense. Maybe they did with the new players, lol.

  75. 76buc76 Says:

    I can see us moving on from Freeman in 2014. EVEN IF WE MAKE THE PLAYOFF’s. If he has an up and down year. Then stink’s the place out in the playoff’s. Keeping his turnover’s in check is key. If he has 25 or more turnover’s and under 60% passing. Who need’s him. The fact is if we have to pay Freeman 15-20M per. It will cost us 2 O-linemen (Joshepf,Nick’s or Penn).We are right at the cap for next year. But a number of big money guy’s can be cut without deadmoney. We could squeeze 6M by cutting our kicker’s too. No addition’s in the offseason just subtraction’s. Freeman has the edge over Glennon right now. Mostly due to experience. So Freeman has to have a great year. Letting Freeman walk would mean we could sign 15-20M on other player’s. Two 5M defencive linemen and a 7M tight end would be nice. Trent Cole and Jimmy Graham anyone? Dom should stop drafting D-linemen besides the no brainer McCoy. Almost all d-linemen have been bust’s.

  76. Pewter Bullion Says:

    chris Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 11:15 am

    “… Glennon looks like a franchise QB. Freeman has that deer in headlight stare…”
    Stop BS’ing… are you going to believe your “lying” eyes? Or the “give-Freeman-one-more-chance” media-hype???

    I want to see Glennon with the #1’s…

    Even Howard Cosell’s son said that Glennon looks like a qb and Freeman doesn’t…

  77. 76buc76 Says:

    We might have to wait for Freeman’s tell all book. To know what makes him tick. Watch for it in 2025. Title “Deer in the headlight’s” the Josh Freeman story.

  78. Pewter Bullion Says:

    In other words, I agree with you Chris. Not sure if I made it clear. Just frustrated…

  79. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    ^^^^Don’t stop there:

    I was thinking, Since team Glazer listens to us, the fans, on how to run their team, why don’t we the fans scream so loud and make team Glazer start all over again next year? You know, new GM, new Coach, new QB. but we’ll keep our $16,000,000 corner.

  80. Architek79 Says:

    @Chris – of all things that personally bother me is the dear look. It’s the most helpless look and I don’t want my leader off into space when we are struggling or down!

    I look at the better QBs and they all have fire about them but Freeman has this emptiness that just bring back memories of Raheem Youngry era.

    Whatever happens there has to be better for such a committment to winning. We have to trust Glazers and the organization.

  81. Couch Fan Says:

    I was thinking, Since team Glazer listens to us, the fans, on how to run their team, why don’t we the fans scream so loud and make team Glazer start all over again next year? You know, new GM, new Coach, new QB. but we’ll keep our $16,000,000 corner.


    I think thats a bit unfair to Dom and Schiano. Dom has shown steady improvement, and unless this whole team has a total melt down then it would also be unfair to let Schiano go to after just his 2nd year.

    But a new QB would probably be a must.

  82. whateverJoe Says:

    Yes Joe your right, he’s no Tony Romo

  83. chris Says:

    ^^^ Dude, you’re telling me Josh’s frantic look in his eyes, while Glennon just has that look. The calmness in the pocket, the willingness to step up in pressure. He’s fearless back there. Josh gets rattled.

  84. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    I don’t know Couch? I’ve seen a lot of “I hate Dom”, and “I hate Schiano” comments all summer long. Once their task of exiling Josh Freeman is over they will continue on to their next victim. Probably Dom

  85. RustyRhino Says:

    I watched the game now twice, and might watch it again. I want a QB like Brady on our team. He carries himself with a swagger and is not afraid of throwing ANYPLACE on the field because he is so accurate. He was dropping the F-bomb on TV for a false start by his center. This guy is a hunting commander.
    Then I look at our QB, he does not have a swagger, even walking to the huddle on His 1st offensive series. There is no piercing stare no intense look on his face. He appears to be timid, unsure, nonchalant. We run our first play and no change in that appearance. (After a near botched play) I know I am not in the huddle, after the three and out. There is a look as he spoke with Coach. He is not fired up angry, motivated, pi$$ed off. He looks like he is walking on eggshells. I do understand he is under some pressure to do something.

    I watch Brady come back out on the next series he is Hungry, With Fire in his eye’s to kick in our teeth and he goes out and gives us a few kicks in the mouth all the way to the endzone. I want our 6’6 240 QB to have this “Passion” to be the best. To put fear in the other teams.
    Been waiting for that since 1976.
    I do hope Freeman will show his metal this season, but if he does not, go with Glennon we have a good ground game we have several good different style RB’s. I thought James & Hillis looked very good, Leonard didn’t play and Martin got his bell rang a bit. As we have all heard a good ground game helps a QB.
    Enough of my rambles.
    Go Bucs!

  86. Couch Fan Says:

    Lol is there a chance you can actually contribute to the debate/conversation by expressing an actual opinion? Nobody here has said they hate anybody. You clearly dont agree with us which is fine. If you dont want to express why you feel the way you do that is fine to but why be constantly condescending? I dont think I’ve read any post here that has insulted or ridiculed you.

    Granted they are just pre-season games and he’s barely played, but have you really seen much of anything from Freeman yet that excites you or even makes you think he’s getting better?

    Talking about that doesnt make you a hater or a bad fan Lol.

  87. 76buc76 Says:

    Freeman put us in position to win the Eagles/skin’s games. Funny how people on each side of the Freeman debate look at thing’s. In both of those games Freeman did NOTHING in the first half. Everyone was lighting up the Eagle defence. But Freeman had what 34 yard’s passing. In a must win game against a v bad team at home.

  88. Venbuc Says:

    Last season’s 7-9 was not all on Freeman, the defense is as much or more the reason for our loosing season, if they didn’t allow late come backs to lose the games we would have had at least a 9-7 season. Yes, did collapse in performance in games, and yes he’s been inconsistent. Everyone seems to forget that its a team effort and how they perform as a TEAM counts. Yes, Free as to perform well this season, but so does the rest of the team. The Bucs have given up on QBs to soon and many of them have flourished with other teams.

  89. Architek79 Says:

    @Couch Fan,
    You nailed it. The better part of the fans here want to see Freeman succeed and the organization. But based on what we have witnessed looks like the ending spiral of the season. Not much to get excited about or pumped.

    I watched a Very Good Seattle team execute all phases of the game on a contender Denver. Now that sort of performance gives hope and sets expectations. What we have seen just raises more questions.

  90. Buc1987 Says:

    ho hum same shyte different article. How many times are we going to go over this and come to the same conclusion?

    I see Adam L. the season ticket holder that has no faith in this team was in here again. The offer still stands Adam. Come on let me buy some of your season tix at 1/2 price. I don’t want you to have to waste your time and money watchng a team you have no faith in.

  91. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    ^^^ If that is the case? Then tell me why has Joe even called it a “mob mentality”? Could it be that’s exactly how Joe sees it? You know my stance about Freeman by now. He gets one more chance to prove himself. This is his year but the torches and pitchfork crowd don’t even want him to get that. Next year, if he sucks this year, will be a different story.

    The same crowd who want Freeman gone now, will be the same ones who will be first to turn on Dom and Schiano.

  92. Tyler Says:

    If freeman can’t do it this year(which I hope he does) screw glennon bring in a proven winner my boy AJ MCcarron from bama my favorite colliegiate quarterback he would help turn it around in a heartbeat

  93. Macabee Says:

    I don’t usually get involved in the back and forth banter about Freeman. It is sporting, often humorous, but relatively meaningless in the scheme of things. To me, it’s simple – Freeman will get what he earns. In the workplace it’s called merit pay. If he fails, he will not get an offer, if he plays like he did last year, he will get a middle of the road offer, if he plays lights out he will get a better offer or he will be franchised.

    I don’t really understand why this is a big deal. This is how it works in the NFL period – Freeman is not an exception. We sometimes fail to remember that we were ranked 9th in total offense last year. What are we griping about? But for a few defensive lapses when we had the lead in the waning moments of several games, we perhaps would have been in the playoffs.

    It is what it is! Our Offense hasn’t changed. If we ever get to see Nicks and Joseph return, theoretically we should be even better. And Freeman hasn’t changed. He will still be inconsistent and we will still win games! The reason that everybody has the yips is because we have not seen our collective offense or defense on the field for any length of time to accurate judge where we are. That is Schiano’s call and I assume that will change in the next 2 preseason games.

    Again, I don’t understand all of the weeping and gnashing of teeth. One of three things will happen: Freeman will be gone and perhaps to his benefit and we will continue our 37 year search for a franchise QB, Freeman will get a good but not great contract that will allow us time to develop his replacement or he will get a great contract which means we went far into the playoffs, won big, and moved on to attacking Bowers or the next failure to meet expectations. In the meantime chill out Fellas!

  94. Couch Fan Says:


    Completely agree. I can understand being passionate about the Bucs. Hell my whole mood for the week depends on how the Bucs do on Gameday Lol.

    I dont put to much stock in pre-season. I personally feel like Schiano’s plan is so Vanilla during this time of the year that its impossible to get any read on this team unless you are on the inside.

    But at the same time all we can talk about is what we’ve seen. And our starters have not been impressive, not even close. I just dont see why people seem to think that if you arent talking positive then you shouldnt talk at all.

  95. Buc1987 Says:

    @Architek79 …I watched that Hawks game too. I saw 2nd and 3rd teamers flying around and getting to the ball much quicker than our starters. It did make me wonder. I also heard Schiano say we have a plan and we’re sticking to that plan.
    Which brings me back to my new favorite line on JBF.

    Unless your name is Greg Schiano there is nothing you can do about.

  96. Couch Fan Says:

    ^^^ If that is the case? Then tell me why has Joe even called it a “mob mentality”? Could it be that’s exactly how Joe sees it? You know my stance about Freeman by now. He gets one more chance to prove himself. This is his year but the torches and pitchfork crowd don’t even want him to get that. Next year, if he sucks this year, will be a different story.

    The same crowd who want Freeman gone now, will be the same ones who will be first to turn on Dom and Schiano.


    Lol c’mon now. Joe is a blogger and his #1 goal is to get people to debate/converse on his blog. Obviously the whole Freeman/Glennon thing is the hottest topic in Tampa. And rightfully so. Dont forget Joe (no offense Joe) is a member of the media and his site thrives off controversy.

    Having said that you have already seen Buc1987 take a poll and it was like 27 for Freeman to like 4 for Glennon? Lol, Doesn’t sound much like a mob to me.

    Bottom line is though, it is clear that most of the Buc Faithful arent convinced as you who Freeman really is. THIS is our forum to talk about it. So talk.

  97. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    You remember when I said that there are times that you can say something profound and it astonishes me?

    You just did it. That was very nicely delivered.

    Well, I’m off for a dip in the pool.

    Catch you Gents later!

  98. Bucs34 Says:

    It is very funny to hear that people will be out of here if things do not change! You clearly were not around in the 1976 77 season? True fans are here through thick and thin. If you are not happy go elsewhere no body cares what you negative people say about the Bucs because it all has been said well long before your time. GO BUCS…

  99. Buc1987 Says:

    Couch…I think that’s the general consensus even with the Freeman supporters. 1 more chance. I know that’s how it is with me. Maybe do another poll and word it differently?

  100. Goodolebucfan Says:

    You all can chase another QB out of town. Throw out the three circus years with Raheem. Freeman only year with a stable coaching staff he set passing records. Yes he had to many interceptions and needs to get his completion ratio up. This will be the second year in the same system with the same receivers same coaches if he doesn’t improve I will pick up the pitch fork and torches but I warn you there is no great free agent out there. You can have Cutler he is up and down and is no longer young. Glennon looks promising but young, line him up with a first team defence you might sorry he might just look mortal.You can throw out his first three years on this team because we spent very little on talent and did not have the coaches that could even develop the young talent. It takes time to implement a system and for the players to be on the same page with that system. Freeman threw 800 yards less then Brady last season a little growth better accuracy and less turnovers the fair weather Qb fans will be on board.

  101. Mean D Says:

    We will make the playoffs despite Freeman’s mediocre play.

  102. Couch Fan Says:

    You can try. I can’t speak for everyone but my vote wont change no matter how you word it. I’m on the fence but I do realize we have no choice but to give him 1 more chance. I’m not against Starting Glennon either if he’s the better of the 2, and I dont think thats imposisble either.

    This is why I dont like the idea of choosing sides. They both are Buccaneers, I just want the guy who gives us the best shot of getting us to the playoffs.

  103. Illuminati Says:

    Cool. Joe only misspelled Testaverde’s name four times in that post.

  104. Architek Says:

    I watched that game lay night and said to myself,” wow now I see what the hype is all about.” I wasn’t a believer in all the Seattle love from the media but after witnessing that overall performance on Peyton Manning I buy into the Hawks. Also the Russell Wilson hype is warranted – he is solid and improving.

    @ Couch,
    I am anxiously waiting for next week because I know after three weeks of sloppy football we need to see some sort of execution. This team really needs something to spark some excitement. I believe the roster is overall a playoff roster but it’s Achilles is that QB position.

  105. Joke Says:

    I completely agree – if Freeman doesn’t lead us to the playoffs this year, he’s gone. I still think he has it in him to be a top 5 to 10 QB, but we spent a 3rd round pick on a QB for a very specific purpose — if it gets clear in-season that we’re not making the playoffs, then we’re cutting bait on Josh and giving the new guy some seasoning.

    That said, to answer your question: Jim Hart. Didn’t make the playoffs until his _eighth_ consecutive season starting for the Cardinals.

  106. Thomas2.2 Says:

    I think that this sums up the Freeman Glennon debate:

    Nobody is truly pro-Glennon bc of insufficient evidence, but what is known about Freeman (big potential,wild inconsistency) makes a lot of fans more excited about seeing what is unknown (Glennon) than what is (Freeman).

    It is not logical prefer Glennon to play this year, but everyone’s frustration with Josh makes us think illogically.

    Despite what is being said publicly, Schiano is underwhelmed with Josh.

  107. RaShad Says:

    @ 76buc76

    I will give you that, but once the team made the half time adjustments he and the team came out firing. I’m just saying, I don’t understand how everyone is ready to get rid of J5 and replace him with Glennon who has looked decent against back ups and who has gotten the majority of the snaps in the games. I will wait till the next game to determine what J5 season may look like.

  108. Thomas2.2 Says:

    Bring in proven college winner AJ McCarron?

    I think proven college winners Tim Tebow, Ken Dorsey, Danny Wuerfel and Vince Young are also available.

    NFL QBing is not the same

  109. Couch Fan Says:

    Agreed 2.2

    @ Architek

    I agree we do need to see some kind of execution or something positive with the 1st stringers. But dont be surprised if we dont. As someone said earlier Miami is another team we play in the regular season and Schiano might choose to do the extremely vanilla plan again.

  110. TAC Says:

    “Cool. Joe only misspelled Testaverde’s”

    I would have just said turf toe.

  111. BigSombrero Says:

    Im not so sure as everyone else that Dom will automatically pay 20 mil if we make the playoffs. Freemans inconsistency will be taken into account during contract negotiations. He hasn’t put two good seasons together yet. Why would Dom give a guy like that 20 mil? It would be incredibly risky.

  112. Buc1987 Says:

    “As someone said earlier Miami is another team we play in the regular season and Schiano might choose to do the extremely vanilla plan again.”

    ^^^ yup I was already thinking about that last night.

  113. Buc1987 Says:

    It’s almost like Schiano is keeping the entire 1st team under a tarp until the regular season. It sucks having to wait to see what the real product looks like. It is what it is I guess.

  114. Buc1987 Says:

    Now wonder why the NFL is considering lowering preseason tickets dramatically league wide…

  115. Buddha Says:

    What other Quarterback had such a joke of a coaching staff his first three years? What other second year QB won 10 games while surrounded by such pathetic talent?

    This is no longer a Bucs’ fan site. Joe has made into a Bucs’ hate site.

    Nine games into last season everyone wanted to sign Freeman to a long-term contract. Joe is right about one thing–it’s what have you done for me lately. Nobody has any patience.

    Why is there never any discussion like this about other players on the team?

    How can anybody be so certain about what kind of year this is going to be? Last year at this time Cam newton was projected to take Carolina to a 12 win season and Seattle and Indy were supposed to lose most of their games.

    I’m a Freeman fan and a Glennon fan. One does not preclude the other.

  116. the_buc_realist Says:

    Should the Bucs just cut Freeman now? Just so we can write off the 2009 draft class as an Epic Fail in Bucs history, and that is saying something!

  117. Buc1987 Says:

    @Buddha …I agree with every single thing you’ve stated!

  118. Andrew 1 Says:

    thank you Couch Fan

  119. Joe Says:

    @Buddha – “Joe has made this into a Bucs’ hate site.”
    Dude, Joe doesn’t control fan opinion. Don’t give Joe so much power. Joe is merely injecting some modern-day reality into the Freeman debate with this post and that inevitably sparks those who don’t believe in No. 5.

    For the record, Alex Smith lost his starting gig midway through his reign as Niners QB. So Joe doesn’t count him in the equation. Matt Schaub led a team to the playoffs in his fifth season there, so yes, he got a sixth season.

    The mentions of Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini and others are not from the modern era.

    The only point here was to show that recent history (past 20 years) would suggest Freeman has get his team to the playoffs now to continue in Tampa. Remember, Joe’s the guy who believes QBs lead teams, such as Shaun King leading the Bucs to the NFC title game.

  120. TAC Says:

    “Nine games into last season everyone wanted to sign Freeman to a long-term contract.”

    Maybe the euphoric band of Fro nut-swingers, I remember just thinking he was playing well, and hoped he stayed consistent.

    I think Fro is the best chance to win right now, but the D has to be right. He will not carry the team.

  121. Architek Says:

    What’s the risks vs reward of franchising him next year if he (Free-arm) underwhelms but just does enough to not look too bad (ei. Jason Campbell)?

    Does that impact resigning other players up for extensions given Dominik approach to handling bonuses?

  122. Bobby Says:

    @TAC…no.. maybe the entire NFL world thought that way since Freeman was leading ALL QB’s in the league during that stretch. You thought he played well…duh!!! He was playing at an elite level which is exactly what he has the potential to do. Now…potential and a buck will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds. Freeman needs to play at a consistently GOOD level. He doesn’t have to be elite for this team to win a super bowl. Flacco is hardly ‘elite’. If this defense gels in the backfield and Clayborn and McCoy can get pressure all the offense has to do is average the 24+ pts a game they averaged last year and we will be set. To me it’s way more about how the defense performs than how the offense performs. I’m not asking the defense to win us any games…just unlike last year…don’t lose us any this year.

  123. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Anybody a Freeman fan first, and a Bucs fan second?

    Sure seems that a few of you are.

  124. BUCSLEGENDS Says:

    Bucs34, Couldn’t agree with you more !!!!!!! GO BUCS !!!!!!!

  125. buc4lyfe Says:

    Where were all the freeman haters during that redskins home game or the philly game that let a rookie name nick foles come back on another last minute drive or who was complaining about josh when bucs gave up 200 yards to one wr and almost 200 to another in the giants game, what about the dallas cowboy game, losing to atl by one point. How do you throw for 420 yards against saints garbage defense and lose. Im not saying freeman is tom brady or even tony romo but do you really have to be to win a championship, flacco was garbage last year until playoffs came but he didnt have a matador style defense on the other side of the ball. He has his issues but the fact is if not for the defense we would have made the playoffs

  126. Buc1987 Says:

    Doug Martin will put this team on his back and carry them I guess. Everyone that whines about Freeman never considers the Martin factor. Doug Martin, an average Freeman and a solid D. Gets this team to the playoffs. Now all we have to do is hold out and wait until Sept 8th.

  127. buc4lyfe Says:

    If we want to run freeman out of town atleast be honest about his season last year and say he was really only at fault for 2 or 3 bad games in the middle of the season throwing all those picks but how is to blame for most of our loses last year? doug martin rushed for 76 yards against the chiefs last year, freeman was the reason we won 38-10. If you fake buc fans want him gone then send mark dom with him because to me it’s no coincidence that all this talent started coming in with schiano, yea mark gets credit but we really know who is doing the drafting which is why there arent many holdovers on the team post raheem morris era because drafting was left to dominick. if you want him gone get off his back and let him play out his contract, if he is gone after this year then we dont have to talk about it anymore but if he gets a long term contract go find another team to complain about…brady does a dance in the pocket too but i guess it’s josh freeman fault brady left the game looking like he never stepped on to the field…YEA

  128. Adam L Says:

    I think it’s safe to say that our little committee here has seen enough.

  129. buc4lyfe Says:

    dont understand why people wants a rookie to start at quarterback that throws a pick 6 against 4th string special teamers….people really see what they want to see in tampa, every single one of his interceptions were horrible. haters all of ya but everyone was screaming for josh freeman when leftwich was here and josh johnson, look how he is ballin for the bengals now. you people watch to much espn, of course the qb gets the blame and everyone highlights the 4 int games but forget to mention the philly game, the redskins game, giants game where two wr had 200 yards, cowboys game, how many did we lose because of josh and how many because of the defense? Truth is we lost like 7 games by less than a touchdown and had to go out and buy a defense this offseason, let freeman play out his contract, no one mentions gerald mccoy who’s supposed to be dominant but hasnt had more sacks than clayborn did as a rookie yet, no one mentions that bad play calling by the head coach to run the ball 3 times and leave it up to the defense to stop someone, or rushing 3 and dropping 8 into coverage and still not being able to stop peyton manning

  130. buccanay Says:

    “shaun king leads..what!?!” this has got to be sarcasm…and YES, unfortunately, this has become “puke fest” of a site.

  131. Couch Fan Says:

    I find it rather comical when people dont agree with the majority of opinions and the only defense they have is to turn on Joe and call his website names… LMAO

    Such a sad thing to see adults lowering themselves to the maturity of spoiled children who act out when they dont get what they want.

  132. Joe Says:


    Josh Freeman is 6-15 vs. teams with winning records. There simply is no way to spin that. If Freeman led the Bucs to the playoffs, this likely wouldn’t be an issue. But he hasn’t. When he faces a tough team, he wilts Exhibit-A the game last year at Denver when the Bucs defense played their arses off in the first half and gave Freeman a lead to play with). Joe truly believes Freeman will have a better season this year. If he doesn’t, it’s not like the front office didn’t surround him with enough toys. Team Glazer broke the bank to help him in every way.

  133. Jimmy Says:

    Never dreamed I would get wistful of the halcyon days of Shaun King at quarterback. Freeman only dreams he could have had as much success as Shaun King did. Real talk!

  134. BamBamBuc Says:

    Joe, you can say he was demoted to 2nd string in 2008, but…

    On September 10, 2008, the 49ers placed Smith on injured reserve after Dr. James Andrews confirmed the team’s diagnosis of a broken bone in his shoulder,[16] believed to have been caused by a wire left in his shoulder from the previous surgery, which had sawed through the bone

    That previous surgery was the prior season, so injuries and an offensive change may have force him to the sideline. Being on IR all year is not exactly losing your starting gig. As a matter of fact, after taking a paycut for the 2009 season, Smith started the season opener on 2009 and had more starts than the other QBs did. So, in every season he played, he was considered the starter. Saying otherwise would be like saying Stafford wasn’t the starting QB for the Lions his first two years. He was, and is, their starting QB.

    Matt Schaub never played in a playoff game until his 6th season as starter, 9th season in the NFL. Say what you will, give him credit for the playoffs in 2011 which he didn’t play in, but the Texans don’t make the playoffs that year if Yates doesn’t come in halfway through game 11 to secure that win and then win 2 of the next 5 as starter. They were 10-6, the Titans were 9-7, Schaub didn’t make the playoffs, the Texans did with TJ Yates at QB. As a matter of fact, it was the Bucs that knocked Schaub out that season, got him put on IR.

    So, Schaub… after 5 years as a starter and no playoff games himself (although the team did make the playoffs) got a 4 year $62M extension last year. Alex Smith, after restructuring his contract downward, fell from $24M the last 2 years of his contract to only $4M per year. After unsuccessfully playing out those last two years (essentially as the starter), the team STILL resigned him to a one year $5M deal.

    Is anyone getting any of this??? Unless a team gets a top 5 draft choice (which no team wants), they are not typically counting on the rookie to win games, they’d rather have a known mediocre QB than risk a 4 or 5 year rebuild with a rookie. Sure, go ahead and draft the rookie in the mid first or 3rd round or whatever… and if he’s the better guy, go with him. But don’t throw away mediocre if you have no viable replacement option. You’ll end up like the Cardinals choosing between Skelton, Kolb, Lindley, Hoyer, Derek Anderson, Max Hall… maybe drafting a Matt Leinart with the 10th overall pick in hopes he can be decent (and instead rely on journeyman Kurt Warner to have success, because that 1st round pick was wasted on a pipe dream)

  135. TAC Says:

    “He was playing at an elite level which is exactly what he has the potential to do.”

    Key words being ‘was’, and ‘potential’ in your post. You basically said the same thing I did, duh…

    Elite? Dream on while you swing from the fro- balls…

    Freeman has many problems, and is prone to mistakes(lol). So true from a wise old buc player.

  136. BamBamBuc Says:

    Love the whole 6-15 against teams with winning records things too… Anyone ever look to see if we had won those games, we’d have fewer games against teams with winning records because we beat them and their record was worse, maybe even .500 or losing record?

    The Giants finished 9-7, so had a winning record, but not when they played us… they were 0-1. So, does that count as a loss to a team with a winning or losing record? If we had beaten them and they finished .500…. still no win against a team with a winning record.

    The Skins also had a losing record when we played them and lost. As a matter of fact, they weren’t all that good through 9 games last year. Although, after their bye week, they finish with 7 straight wins, mostly against division opponents and made the playoffs.

    Not that it’s a good thing…. we were losing against teams with losing records MAKING them teams with winning records. We prevented 2 teams from having winning records… the Chargers would have been 5-4 if they had beaten us (although it’s hard to say how they’d finish). And 2 wins against the Panthers, if turned around, would have put them at 9-7 for the season.

    In 2011, a loss to the Titans gives them a winning (9-7) record. A win gives them an 8-8 record. So, if we win, we still can’t beat teams with winning records, since they’re 8-8. If we lose, they have a winning record and we can’t beat teams with winning records… That’s just silly. Of course, we lost, and they had a winning record. I wonder how that works??? (sarcasm)

  137. BamBamBuc Says:

    To expand upon the whole “record against teams with winning records” thing… I believe it’s more important to win games against teams with losing records. Simply look at 2010 as an example. We go 10-6, and all but 1 of our losses came against teams with winning records. Sure, win one against a team with a winning record and we are in the playoffs… but that one loss against a team with a losing record… the Lions game… Win that and we’re in. It’s called “winning the games you’re supposed to win”. Do that and you have a pretty good shot at the playoffs. Maybe pull off an upset of a good team every now and then and your chances improve even more. (Of course, that game Freeman leads a comeback to get us a 20-17 lead in the 4th with less than 2 minutes remaining… and backup QB Stanton drives for the FG and the Lions win in OT. Sounds eerily similar to the Eagles game last year without the OT part).

    Looking at 2012, the team had 4 losses against teams with losing records. Plain and simple, we didn’t win the games we were supposed to win. We also had one loss to a .500 team. That’s 5 losses to teams we should be able to win against. Win 3 of those 5 and we’re 10-6 and beat the Vikings in a tie-break for the wild card spot due to head-to-head record. That’s how important it is to win the games you’re supposed to. yeah, in the playoffs, you have to beat teams with winning records. Gotta get there first by beating the teams you are supposed to beat.

  138. eDDyk0k0 Says:

    You say that Shaun King led the Bucs to the 1999 NFC Championship Game, yet Trent Dilfer was the starter for the majority of that year. Trent Dilfer suffered a season ending injury and Shaun King was inserted into the lineup. Using this logic you would think that T.J. Yates led his team to the playoffs as well since Schaub like Dilfer suffered a season ending injury. Which means Schaub “really” didn’t get his team to the playoffs till his sixth year with the Texans(8th year in league btw). So you saying that statment contradicts your favorite saying of “Shaun King, one of three bucaneers quarterbacks to lead their team to the NFC Championship.” Its ironic because there’s probably folks in Houston who think of T.J. Yates like you think of Shaun King. They probably say “T.J. Yates…the first quarterback in texans history to lead his team to the playoffs.” What both of these examples mean is that good teams play great defense. It’s essential to not be one dimensional. One player does not make a team. I really do believe that Freeman is like Eli, he’s unreadable, like a Snake. Eli gave and gives New York roller coaster seasons but his team had/has a pass rush. Maybe if Freeman’s team had some pass rush more fans would enjoy Tampa Bay’s own attraction of Six Flags.

  139. Raphael Says:

    I really can’t stand all the bullspit here anymore….last I checked their are 3 phases to a football team…bunch retards here

  140. Buc1987 Says:

    @Junkie..I think it’s safe to say that many people in here have multiple screen names.

  141. 76buc76 Says:

    I’m very impressed with Buffalo. I think they might win it all. IT’S PRESEASON dude. No preseason team looked as good as the Lion’s a couple year’s ago 4-0. Only to finish 0-16. Some team’s want to see how bad that run stuffing LBer is in coverage. Some team’s like the Raider’s will scheme to win more. They ned to sell hope. The whole time trying to divulage as little information as possible. Denver is still the team to beat in the NFC and Seattle will ba a force in the NFC. Nothing changes because Seattle hammered Denver.

  142. Buc1987 Says:

    “Our fans are our stockholders. They’re what we play for — the people in our stadium and the ones that watch on TV. That’s what it’s all about: winning and how they feel about the team. If they don’t feel good about the team, then there’s something wrong. . . I think you all know the sense that’s out there. It was time for a change.” —

    So now were going to make things better for our fans by firing Gruden and make Raheem the Dream your new coach. Gimme a break.

  143. PRBucFan Says:

    Hey 1987 did you see the post I put up for you in the thread from last night?

  144. buc4lyfe Says:

    joe thats crazy talk, people love to quote records as if football isnt a team sport. Im sorry joe did you say the defense handed josh freeman the lead in the denver game, we were all holding our breath everytime peyton manning got the ball so dont act as if you werent surprised we played as good as we did, their defense turned it up in the second half. Even a ram’s played came out and said we were easy to figure out after they beat us and that has nothing to do with freeman that’s scheme. he would have had just as many comeback wins as he did in 2010 if it werent for the defense see redskins game. His first game in the nfl was a comeback win against the packers no one was calling him garbage then, even eli sucked for a long time before he started to turn it on, he sucked just as bad only giants had DEFENSE. I’m not saying freeman is the answer im simply saying its a joke to think a rookie could do better because he comes in preseason playing against scrubs and shows poise and promise.

  145. WestCoastBucsFan Says:


    It seems to have gone unrecognized but you made great, valid points. I hate that the QB is solely responsible for wins and losses when their is 21 other starters and an entire coaching staff but what can you do?

    Can’t wait for the regular season.

  146. Oahubuc Says:

    The mental meltdowns, the wild throws in the redzone, etc. Those are the measurables we should be looking at, since it is going to be tough to get into the playoffs in this division and conference.

    To have 20 million a season tied up in this guy is crazy, since we have more than that tied up in him indirectly through the expensive players he needs to be surrounded with to even function. There are pricey weapons on offense that a decent quarterback could work with and not contribute as much to the cap nightmare that is coming.

    I say keep an open mind going into the season, but if he plays like Josh Freeman, there is no reason to pay him like an elite quarterback. The trouble is, he’s Josh Freeman.

  147. Mord Says:

    This ‘controversy’ is silly.

    The heartbreaking thing is that the Bucs may reach their wits’ end with Freeman, and rightly so, but it’s easy to picture him promptly winning a Super Bowl in another uniform… And at the same time, it’s difficult to picture Napoleon Dynamite actually starting for any team, ever.

    If we don’t see Freeman turn it around this year, i think it’s gonna be a long while before we can rationally get excited about a QB around here.

    Patience grows more difficult to come by.

  148. Capt. Tim Says:

    Still herding the sheep, Joe?
    The really stupid ones noticed that Josh looked horrible. The intelligent ones( me, and meybe a couple others)noticed that the entire team looked like I coached, unskilled, unpracticed crap. The Patriots were actually laughing at the Bucs after several plays. By the midfle of the first quarter, they stopped playing their schemes, and went with a basic offensive and defensive set the remainder of the game. They basically dismissed us us- because we presented no competition.
    Glennon didn’t play the Patriots. Not their players, schemes, or defenses. He played against the most basic defense you can field- and they didn’t rotate out of it. It was” here’s our guy in coverage- and you’ve got no one who can beat him one on one!”
    And they were mostly right!!
    We should release Freeman and McCoy right now. After 6 years of rebuilding, we look worse than last year!!
    This team isn’t competitive. Unless we want 5 more years as the Yucks- we need to get a GM and a Coach in here that can build a Team.

    This bunch is just spinning its wheels!
    That’s the real worry. Not which QB gets fed to the Wolves!! If I were Freeman- you couldn’t pay me enough to stay- unless we start showing some forward progress

  149. the_buc_realist Says:

    @capt tim

    no one is saying to release Freeman, not when we could still get a 3rd rounder or maybe even a conditional 2nd for him right now.

    And the whole team did look bad, but it would help if we had a QB that could get the hot route out to combat the pressure, the bucs will see this every week until JFro-6pak is able to do that.

  150. Capt. Tim Says:

    Buc realist-
    You must have tremendous vision to be able to decipher that. I’ll be honest- almost every play had linemen blocking defenders INTO the play, TEs totally lost- obviously out of posistion, running backs missing blocks, etc.

    It was such a clown circus fire drill- I couldn’t tell what play it was supposed to!! Much less who didn’t throw what.

    It’s preseason. I know it isn’t the regular season.
    But that was one of the most confused, undisciplined teams I’ve seen since the expansion team.

    And the more you rewind/review it- the uglier it gets.

  151. mark c B Says:

    Josh freeman is holding the bucs back. He is not mobile enough for todays nfl wake up glaze get a real QB