“It Took (Eli) Six Years To Learn The Offense”

December 19th, 2012

Joe is impressed. Josh Freeman’s coaches and teammates have rallied to his defense better than Bucs corners have covered opposing wide receivers all season.

In particular, wide receiver Mike Williams was almost angry and certainly disgusted how a large number of Bucs fans have turned on Freeman after he has circled the drain regressing each of the past four weeks.

Williams had an interesting nuggett that sort of put Freeman’s recent struggles into perspective.

“We run a certain team’s offense,” Williams said, referring to the Giants offense brought from New York by former Giants quarterback coach and current Bucs offensive coordinator Mike Sullivan. “The quarterback of that offense [Eli Manning] said it took him six years before he fully understood the offense. That quarterback now has two rings.”

Very early this season, Bucs fans had the inclination that Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik should draft West Virginia quarterback Geno Smith in the first round in April.

Joe noted at the time that quarterbacks often have to be deprogrammed and reprogrammed to learn a new offense (and perhaps, the stain of Greg Olson’s offensive offense needed further purging).

Given Manning’s information, via Williams, perhaps Sullivan’s offense is so complex and perhaps he is adding new dimensions to the offense so much that maybe it does take some time before Freeman, or any quarterback, fully grasps all the nuances.

84 Responses to ““It Took (Eli) Six Years To Learn The Offense””

  1. Patrick Says:

    In Eli’s fourth season, he won a Super Bowl. In Freeman’s fourth season, it’s the fourth straight year of NO playoffs.

  2. bucfanjeff Says:

    Many of us have been saying this for some time now. It’s just that a lot of fans don’t seem to care about that little nugget.

  3. bucfanjeff Says:

    @Patrick, Eli’s 4th season in one offensive system. Freeman is in his 1st year of this system.

  4. Macabee Says:

    Can’t overlook the fact that Manning has won 2 SBs. But his play lately looks like he still has a few things to work on. My takeaway – QBs have bad days, even bad years. We should probably dispense with terms like elite and franchise.There are only 2 types of QBs – those who win and those who don’t!

  5. Ian's Gay Lisp & Ron's Drinking Problem Says:

    First thing’s 1st…….i am happy #5’s WR has his back (that’s half the battle)

  6. Gus Says:

    EXACTLY!!!! Everyone is getting spoiled by the Lucks, RGIIIs, and Wilsons of the world. Eli is one of the smartest QB IN THE LEAGUE. If it took Eli 6 years, how the f*** does anyone expect him to get it IN ONE SEASON! I am willing to give him one more year next year. Anyone saying we should draft a QB has no clue what the real issues are with this team. NO PASS DEFENSE. We could also use on of those big TE with good hands. Freeman was playing PRO BOWL FOOTBALL only 4/5 weeks ago. The Freeman haters were waiting for this. Buc lovers were hoping this would never happen. Do I think we should bring in a backup that can challenge Freeman for the starting role (Alex Smith) yes but trading Freeman would be a foolish move. I would probably start vomiting in my own mouth if I saw Freeman playing out of his mind in a different uniform.

  7. Gus Says:

    “Joe is impressed. Josh Freeman’s coaches and teammates have rallied to his defense better than Bucs corners have covered opposing wide receivers all season.”

    Nice Joe, I literally laugh out loud at work.

  8. PRBucFan Says:

    Unfortunately for Free Free he does not have that same luxury of time now does he??? Eli had his rookie contract to learn the system and he did, great for him. Free does not, he has two years. We shall see next year. Also what in the hell does the system have to do with accuracy, the ability to react to pressure, and staring down receivers(which he’s done in all systems he’s been in). The inability to completing a 5 yard pass is not on the system.

  9. buccanay Says:

    AWWWWWWWWWWW….wouldnt want to hurt lil Josh’s feelings, would we?
    This is what drive me nuts. He’s babied and coddled to the EXTREME. IMO, this is what drives fans to bash on Freeman, its all the excuses. Most of us know he has talent, and he’s goin thru another coordinator,. but my God, quit coddling this “boy” and let him become a man. it’s almost if Freeman’s teamates sense that he’s fragile and immature and feel the need to stand up for lil brother.

  10. Gus Says:

    @Patrick. If you can recall his first ring his DEFENSE helped him get there for the most part. Eli had four years in the same system. To expect Freeman…..or anyone for that matter to grasp it in one year is absurd. Defenses made adjustments to parts of the offense that Freeman has gotten down. They most likely are trying to add new parts to combat this and the TEAM not just Freeman are struggling with it. Show of hand for anyone who had the bucs in playoff conversation before the season started.

  11. ShutTheBucUp Says:

    I think a lot of the success the rookie QBs are having, is because they are hard to gameplan for on the pro level. I say wait until next season before you start putting Luck, RGIII, Wilson, and “elite” in the same sentence.

    As far as Freeman goes, he’s shown what he can bring when he’s on his game. He’s also shown some really bad play here and there. I’m sure he and this coaching staff will find a way to iron it out. I’d rather have the guy I know than some unknown/unproven guy under center.

  12. Macabee Says:

    You guys see the woman to left of Mike Will. She says “If I have to hear whether Josh Freeman is a franchise quarterback one mo’ time…”

  13. Gus Says:

    @PRBucFan It is very hard to accurate when you aren’t even sure if the players your asking to be in the spot will actually be there. Freeman did a hell of a job handling pressure throughout the season. He has made good adjustments in changing plays at the line ect. He has always had a problem staring down receivers but that seemed to have gotten better around mid season. He still has work to do.

    The rookies we are seeing this season will have their flops next year when defense get a hold of tape on them. Cam Newton is an excellent example of this.

  14. Meh Says:

    Learning a new system does not excuse the very, very poor short game accuracy. That’s his #1 problem. Not his only problem, but his biggest problem has absolutely nothing to do with learning a new system.

  15. Tye Says:

    “accuracy, the ability to react to pressure, and staring down receivers(which he’s done in all systems he’s been in). The inability to completing a 5 yard pass is not on the system.”

    Exactly my argument against him also PRBucFan!… Freeman is still making mistakes that college QBs often do… learning the system IS NOT THE ISSUE…. Freeman’s inability to perform the smallest QB tasks consistantly are!…. His natural ability to react in games is so horrible it doesn’t take much effort on the defenses part to get him to screw up….

    IF the Bucs had a defense that did get them to the playoffs, JF would lose it for them in the 1st game….. Usually teams that make it to the playoffs have defenses that are good which JF usually loses to!

  16. Gus Says:

    @ShutTheBucUP: You get it. I knew the weaknesses of this team would catch up to them eventually (though I was hoping they would show in the playoffs). This team has great pieces and its only missing one crucial one. The secondary.

  17. PRBucFan Says:

    Only way to find the right guy is to let go of the wrong one.

    REALITY: Sad truth is Freeman doesnt have the amount of time Eli had to learn the system. Different situations, different expectations. One had it implemented at the start of/near the start of his career, the other well into his career. Sorry that’s just the way the cookie crumbles.

  18. Justin Says:

    Listen, its clear that this offense takes time to learn. And everyone getting all up in arms about the miscommunication needs to understand the complexity. The offense requires a ton of sight adjustments, reading the defenses on the fly and WRs running to open space. Freeman was a 60% + passer before and Im sure he can do it again.

    Our offense is not like those of Washington and Denver with tons of bubble screens and crossing routes, which are high percentage passes.

    Still Freeman and his WRs have work to do. The miscommunications should be becoming less frequent as time goes on. That hasnt been the case. If anything, its becoming more prevalent which is alarming.

  19. Nate Says:

    Im tired of this freeman learning crapola.. He Has VINCENT JACKSON DOUG MARTIN MIKE WILLIAMS DALLAS CLARK.. And a decent o-line.. Imagine if Ben Rothlisberger had that same offense they would be going to the superbowl.. Im tired of all these excuses.. I wish Freeman would get better but everytime he messes up and the camera focus in on him he looks SCARED.. He always looks Scared if you dont believe me go look at the TAPE.. Its obvious! Shaun king was right I think he needs to see a shrink!

  20. PRBucFan Says:

    Dude I’m not talking about questionable/debatable issues if accuracy here lol. I’m talkin full blown misses when he knows where the intended target is.

  21. Have A Nice Day Says:

    I can’t name many 24 year old QBs who have had two better seasons as a QB in the NFL. Maybe Matt Ryan.

  22. Gus Says:

    Freemans problems with short accuracy stem from footwork and trust. How many times have we seen Freeman throw it and NO ONE is near the receiver. This is not inaccuracy its miss communication. Freeman does have a tendency which we say last year to rush and through reads and hold on to the football too long. All these things can be taught and coached. Are they an issue? Hell yeah! A big issue but one I am confident that will be work out this offseason. if we are still having this conversation this time next year I will be the first to say FREEMAN’S GOT TO GO. We can all agree this team has more issues then just Freeman. This offseason should be all about defense.

  23. Nate Says:

    How many times have you seen Mike williams and vincent jackson break up a pass to be intercepted as well….

  24. OAR Says:

    Last time I tried to grasp all of the nuances, I got slapped!

    Seriously, I have said it before and will again. His knocks out of college are exactly what we are still seeing today. With that said, he needs some REAL “starter quality” competition at his position. He’s never had any other QB to actually push him for that starting spot! Besides the REAL coaching he’s actully getting, he needs REAL competition to excell, period.
    In other words, why push yourself, if your sure your going to start? Hell, no fear of being benched for that fact.

  25. Gus Says:

    On BSPN Mike and Mike did a GO TO GO segment in which they went from team to team saying all the qbs that HAVE to go. Both of them said it would be silly to let Freeman go. The man has too much talent and his mistakes are correctable.
    Intangiables(you either have it or you dont): at 24 he has 10 fourth quarter comebacks. Arm Strength(you either have it or you dont): one of the best in the league. Accuracy: throws a hell of a deep ball. Hit and miss from mid range. Poor in short range.(which can be fixed)

  26. Gus Says:

    @OAR: agreed. Bringing in another person to that can start cant hurt. If that effects his psyche then he isnt made to be a qb in the NFL. As long as its a vet and not a rookie. That would be a waste of a pick on a team that has many holes to fill.

  27. Yar Says:

    Freeman’s fine it will take a while. Bucs have the players on Offense now so let them gell. The Corners are another story, this D needs Great corners to work so that will be the next thing Dominick needs to fix. Calm down people it takes more than 1 yr to get everything working. The Bucs would be fools to give up on Freeman now.

  28. Tim Says:

    Nice Post. I am just as frustrated with 5 and the offense as the next guy that being said I think it’s foolish to write 5 off yet. He is young. He is the most talented QB in franchise history. He deserves a chance to play his contract out. Now if halfway through next season we are having this conversation, running him out of town might be valid. I am excited about the future.

  29. PRBucFan Says:

    I hear ya Gus. Next year if its the same convo it has got to be time to move on.

  30. Nate Says:

    Im going to say it again when you have elite weapons and put up 0 points against a saints team you study more then any team in the league its unacceptable this team has to be held to a standard!

  31. buccanay Says:

    Very good point Nate…no excuses!

  32. Architek Says:

    The more you defend Freeman and the failure the more your argument loses its potency. We all agree that Freeman has issues and the defense is atrocious. But what you cannot excuse is rudiment details like touch on drop off passes and screen plays, quick drop bang bang plays that are critical timing rely on. I was the biggest Freeman fan until i witnessed for three years striaght and in person this guy is fragile and timid.

    He should come out and step up about his play being not good enough to compete let alone win. The Dallas game and NO games were too much for one season where he couldnt complete a dump off. Inexcusable and fans should be outraged.

    Bucs will do whats best for them but how much patience is the question. Next year has to be it.

  33. Eric Says:

    Eli won the Super Bowl fourth season, and had a 95 QB ranking in postseason, with six TD’s vs one interception. And he had huge last drive to beat Pats if I recall.

    Comparison is akin to the Raheem Morris vs. CHuck noll talk.

    I suppose any QB in the league with six years or less experience joins Josh Freeman as potential Eli Mannings.

    Where is Jamarcus Russel, he qualifies!

  34. Nate Says:

    I know this sounds crazy but atleast make a trade for some competition for freeman.. I would love to bring in Ryan Mallet from New england he has been learning from Brady would be worth our second round pick. We would reap huge rewards..

  35. Raphael Says:

    What’s funny is all these morons posting that can’t even throw a football….

    Wonder if Eli manning had a bunch of free agent,Walk on CB’s AFTER 4 years in the same system playing defense we he won……We are Lucky to have Josh Freeman…some of you need to get A GRIP. !

  36. Gus Says:

    I am defending Freeman from the people that want him gone. For those saying he will never be elite. It’s clear that he isn’t playing well. That is painfully obvious. But some of us aren’t looking at his season as a whole which comes out to being a decent season. MUCH better than last year. Again I am will right with you guys with pitch forks if Freeman can’t get it done next year but anyone that wants him gone now has no clue how hard it is to find a franchise QB.

  37. Eric Says:

    The bucs have a good receiving group, including one of the best in the game in V-Jackson. And he is blessed with a really good running back who can block and catch.

    Ok the O-line is banged up, but he has enough time, and on a lot of his picks he isnt even pressured.

    Lots of QB’s would love to have Free’s receivers. Im sure Sam Bradford is one of them.

  38. Gus Says:

    @Nate I would love to get Ryan Mallet to come in and push Freeman, but his cost is going to be too high

  39. Gus Says:

    Meaning a second round pick is too high when you have a team with many holes

  40. Raphael Says:

    josh Freeman is our Franchise QB.


    The most prolific passer in Buc history after this season.

  41. Have A Nice Day Says:

    @Raphael – Hard to argue against that.

  42. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    The price for Mallett would not be too high. If you can sign Blount to a multi year contract, that would make him a highly desired trade. Ask Belicheat if he would like his 4th round pick back (Talib trade) and LGB. A 4th rounder is pie in the sky and we are not using LGB. Therefore, Mallett would come cheap.

    The time to trade Freeman is when he still has value. Next year his trade value will be next to nothing.

    I loved Gruden but his main problem was that his offense was too difficult to comprehend. If you lost a RB and signed one off the street, it would take 6 months to learn enough to play. They likened it to learning to speak Chinese.

    If Sullivan’s offense is that complicated that it takes 6 years to learn, fire him. I don’t understand why Sullivan would have anything to do with the difficulty of the Giant’s offense since he wasn’t even the OC. He was in charge of getting coffee. Maybe, he devised a complicated hand signal system for cream, sugar and how many of each.

    Chip Kelly’s offense is very complex but simple. The QB doesn’t even call the plays. Everyone simply turns and faces the bench where a play board is displayed which has 4 picture sections. Then a couple backups send other coded hand signals. All the players decipher what the play is, the formation, blocking assignments, who goes in motion, audibles and snap count. The offense is designed to run a play every 13 seconds if needed.
    There are 3 different speeds they run at. Since they are usually up by 30 points, they run a lot at the slowest speed.

    A picture is worth a thousand words, 4 pictures, 4 thousand words. Nobody on the offense has any difficulty with the system including a freshman QB.

    Even NFL legend Monte Kiffin is scratching his head trying to make sense of the system, which caused his son Lane to let him go after giving up 63 embarrassing points.

    Keep in mind, in the NFL, the QB’s helmet has a speaker and the OC is miked.

  43. McBuc Says:

    Next year he better have a better defemse around him as well. The amount of points he put up in most of the games should have been enough to win. I hope Joe and everyone else finds something more interesting to write the rest of the season, because this Freeman crap is getting old. He was having a great season, even with some of the bad games. Last week was a devision rival that the Bucs should have beat, but no aspect of the team was clicking. The If the season is looked at as a failure in two weeks, the bulk falls on the D. I feel bad for them, becasue they are playing out of their league in the secondary. We had the 4th ranked offense in the league before Sunday, that is a fact that cannot just ne shrugged off as his WRs bailed him out…it is their job to bail him out. The pros are all behind him becasue they know more than we do.

  44. Drew Says:

    I’ll give him a mulligan this year on the accuracy. If it’s still a problem next year they can throw him under the bus.

    Freeman needs to work on the short to intermediate passing accuracy issues in the off season to ready himself for the 2013 season. I’m sure there are passing drills that simulate no pressure and pressure, that will help to improve his accuracy.

  45. PRBucFan Says:

    Fact:4 yrs W-L under 500 and no playoff wins or appearances for that matter.
    Tell me Ralphy what accomplishments (that matter) has your “most prolific passer” attained for this team?

    Was having a great season? IS now playing like crap, the problem with that is that it’s not the first time.

  46. McBuc Says:

    Note, the only true elite player on offense is Jackson. It is too soon to tell if Martin is, and Clark is on the downside of his playing time.

    You guys act like you thought this team would win more than 6 or 7 games, give me a break. Give them time to grow. You say Freeman is under 500 for his four years, guess what…the entire team is…should we just start over? That is what we did this year. This team fell to crap over several years, it will take more than one season to fix it.

    Gus…for GOD sake man, stop using logic on this subject, it runs your credibility!

    Mguel…Really, common man!

  47. PRBucFan Says:

    The entire team is not the quarterback sorry McBuc that’s just the reality of it. It all starts with the QB, fact. That’s not even debatable.

  48. PRBucFan Says:

    Freeman has through next season and that’s all to show he can be consistent. Noones asking to be elite, we just want him to show he can even play like an average QB at the moment.

  49. Raphael Says:

    @ prbucfan…so everybody blocks and runs the right routes and knows the offense and its all just as simple as Free throwing the football on the right spot….? Lmao….
    And a defense really does not exist on a team ? Lmao. Again..

    This will be 3 yrs in a row at 3500 yards passing
    20 plus tds in a year

    BUC records at age 24 yrs old…
    1.highest qb rating in 16 game season. – 95.9
    2. Most 4th qtr comebacks in a season..- 5 …tied with Doug williams
    3 most game winning drives in a season- 5 … Tied with brad johnson
    4 most passing tds in consecutive games – 11 games
    5. Fewest ints in a season. – 6

    You were saying ?

    No playoffs ? Lol. The last I checked there was a defensive side to the team…

    Some of you don’t know what you have in Josh Freeman…fact

  50. Ramdog Says:

    Yeh let’s dump Josh or trade him. If we do that who will play QB next year ??? The draft class at QB is horrid and here are the free agent QB’s.
    Luke McCown – ATL
    Joe Flacco – BAL
    Tarvaris Jackson – BUF
    Tyler Thigpen – BUF
    Derek Anderson – CAR
    Jason Campbell – CHI
    Josh McCown – CHI
    Bruce Gradkowski – CIN
    Drew Stanton – IND
    Brady Quinn – KC
    Pat Devlin – MIA – (Ex)
    Matt Moore – MIA
    Chase Daniel – NO
    David Carr – NYG
    Matt Leinart – OAK
    Charlie Batch – PIT
    Byron Leftwich – PIT
    Kellen Clemens – STL
    Rex Grossman – WAS

    Knock yourself out. Thank God the people on this site aren’t involved with the BUCS and their decision making process. Don’t you think it is funny anyone with any inkling of football acumen points to our horrid secondary as why we are losing. They are on a record setting pace. Do you all understand record-setting ?? Freeman is hard working, will improve as will everyone’s grasp of the offense. Look at how Brees is doing and he is an Elite QB they have only won 6 games. Should they run him out ??

  51. stevek Says:

    Tim Tebow has a better track record of leading teams to the playoffs.

    Yeah, hard to believe that the QB that “can’t throw” can “lead” his team to the playoffs?

  52. Raphael Says:

    @ Ramdog. ….right on brother…it funny how dumb some of these guys are…

    Freeman is one of the brightest stars in the game and they have no clue..

    Oh another buc record I forgot that should matter *lmao*. Is longest pass completion EVERRR ! 95 yards. To VJ. !!!! Hilarious

  53. Raphael Says:

    Lol. tebow is tearing it up right now…

    Btw. Tebow had like the #1 rated defense ….

  54. Raphael Says:

    3 OC in the first 4years in the league…

  55. PRBucFan Says:

    -Same old post all over again lol RamDog. Nothing new. What relevance does that have to do with how our QB is performing now?
    -Ralphy dearest please stop while your ahead. Well that’s not sayin much cause you never have been when it comes to this. Your arguing a point just to argue now lolol. Freeman is not doing even the most basic things a quarterback must do to be even average right now! Even when he does get time and believe me there have been many times he still makes terrible decisions or is incredibly in accurate. Even when the defense does make a stop he still doesn’t get us points!!! So please don’t be asinine. No one is saying that other positions aren’t struggling but there is only one starting QB on a football team and that is te most important position on the football team, that can’t even be argued. Stop babbling on about his statistics they have equated to a total of nada. Stop referencing what isn’t cause what your saying about Free is not the product that’s out on that field right now. But atleast you came back out of your rock, took you a bit after Sunday beautiful performance from your boi Ralphy

  56. Miguel El Magnifico Says:


    You’re negativity is staggering. There are several teams that are desperate for a QB and Freeman would be at the top of that list of scrubs.

    Geno Smith is one of the smartest and most athletic QB’s since……..last year’s draft. RG111.

    The college game has become very sophisticated and is producing more and more franchise QB’s. Also, black QB’s are allowed to prosper where in the past they were dissuaded from that position at an early age.

    Matt Barkely is no scrub and you can’t count him out because of previous USC busts.

    I say let’s get Ryan Mallett and shop Gosh around. If they can get a #1 pick for him, use it for a true franchise QB. When you draft a rookie franchise QB the coach and the front office buy themselves a couple more years at their cushy jobs.

    If they hang on to Gosh and lose him next year without getting any compensation for him, the coach and front office get’s fired.

    The other alternative is to extend Gosh to a 7 year deal at $150 million, and the coach and the front office gets fired.

  57. PRBucFan Says:

    It’s so funny how quite you get when your boi plays like garbage and even in the past how you yourself have turned on Free in game threads when he’s sucked but you always eventually make your back to being the biggest homer on this board. Lol we can always count on you.

  58. Raphael Says:

    Prbucboy….it funny how your were all on Freemans jock after the Incredible 4th qtr comeback against Carolina…

    The truth is your just a little boy troll with no knowledge of football whatsoever….lmao

  59. Raphael Says:

    No worries Freeman will be here for another 5 to 10 years anyways

  60. PRBucFan Says:

    Lol oh did I hit a nerve Ralphy dearest?
    Thought so Bahahahaha!!!

    P.S. it ok buddy, if praising Free when he does something well is riding his jock than so be it than so be it hahaha 😉 Even the biggest realist was fooled by your boi during that 4 game span.

  61. PRBucFan Says:

    But it’s all good Ralphy dearest, I was dumb to think I could carry on an inteligable conversation with you lol. Time to go back to acting like you don’t exist. Starting now… Lol smh

  62. Eric Says:

    Must be a complicated offense. Takes almost as long as medical school to master.

  63. Eric Says:

    Or becoming an astronaut.

  64. Jlynch Says:

    Eli Opie Taylor can throw a ball to a reciever not behind him above below him learn the offense? How about not being scared rattled off targetetc enough with the excuses If I had a job for 4 years and couldnt do it my replacement would be waiting!!

  65. raphael Says:

    lol….. some of you are just so stupid its amusing..

  66. raphael Says:

    so all the experienced professional Coaches and Players and informed fans really like Freeman as the Qb…
    And all pimple faced,punk kid fans with no athletic ability or sports acumen don’t …..wonder which one is right ? lmao…

  67. PRBucFan Says:

    Blind, dumb, and deaf lolol. If only you were mute.

    @Eric I know right haha, I bet that’s why he can’t get it down.

  68. raphael Says:

    you would lose the bet of course..

    Freeman scored a 25 on the wonderlic..Peyton Manning scored a 26..

    Marino scored a 15 as did bradshaw

    i know , I know …you don’t know what that means ..

  69. PRBucFan Says:

    Not that I think this test carries any legitimacy but just since you brought it up, seems that the score of a 26 is equilvalent to that of an “electronic technician” how does that make me wrong? Dang didn’t know that made Free Free a genius… Which is what we were being sarcastic that you had to be to learn the system… Key word being sarcastic Ralphy dearest lolol.

    P.S. The 3 above mentioned QB’s don’t belong in the same breath as your man Free even in your twisted mindset. Anywho, just remembered you don’t exist. Not so nice knowing ya Ralphy dearest. Try not to crush too hard.

  70. BK Says:

    Josh needs an opportunity to finish his contract out next year; its the right thing to do even though he has frustrated me like many others with his play this year. He doesn’t have 3 more years (first with Sullivan\OC) to match Eli with a Super Bowl.

    The thing I don’t like most is his body language as of late…take responsibility and stop blaming others. There is a QB in Chicago who never won anything that has the same attitude.

  71. Eric Says:

    I don’t know where you guys are getting this six year thing. That’s the theory from back in the 70,s when guys came in as backups and moved up.

    Now, with all the sophisticated offenses in college, guys start right away. Like RGIII, etc.

    With turnover in free agency nobody can afford to wait six years for development. Teams are ever changing, as are coordinators.

  72. raphael Says:

    prbuc I am a little concerned…I must tell you I am married and don’t go that way…. hope you were not led on in any way…… # 5

  73. Nate Says:

    Can we all agree if Freeman loses the next 2 games he has to g!o come on people …we have to have a standard here.. Im tired of being embarrassed.. Which is exactly what last weeks game was!

  74. Nate Says:

    And by the way I hate the JETS but atleast they were smart enuff to sit there crappy quarterback! Actually that whole class has pretty much sucked in the nfl…

  75. BucSnob Says:

    Good thing Freeman doesn’t only have 2 years to master this offense as he will receive his extension. Then he’ll become one of the best QBs in the league. It’s ok if you guys can’t see what I see. Freeman will lead us to a Superbowl. Don’t worry I won’t forget you guys.

  76. PRBucFan Says:

    Lol Thank you Ms.Cleo for your insightful clairvoyance.

  77. Mr Lucky Says:

    People talk about Eli being ‘smart’, etc., the problem is that Freeman is no Eli.

    Just look at their college career’s Freeman should have NEVER been drafted in the first round.

    The biggest problem with Freeman is his regression last year and this year. Aren’t you supposed to get BETTER as the season progresses?

    Freeman has a losing record in the NFL and the Bucs will continue to lose with him as their ‘franchise’ QB. You can keep beating that horse until Freeman turns 30 and he STILL won’t lead his team to a playoff win.

  78. Ramdog Says:

    LOL Teebow had a defense in Denver. Our defense #32 against the pass in a passing league, not good. Yeh he is probably going to finish the year with around 4,000 yards 30 TD’s and maybe 15 INT he sucks we should cut him and sign someone with Superbowl experience, right. Hey RG1 is on my list (that is Rex Grossman) let’s snatch him up and trade Freeman for draft picks so some other team can win with him. Thank God you guys have no say at One BUC.

    Freeman needs to improve in his accuracy I think everyone realizes that not the least of which is Freeman. Don’t you think that a Coach, Offensive Coordinator and a GM with their jobs on the line who forgot more about football than anyone on this site know just a tad more about you. They like Freeman and have faith in him so heck I am willing to give him a chance.

  79. Ramdog Says:

    @Raphael yeh can’t believe how dingy these folks are some people couldn’t see facts if they hit them in the face.

    Now I am not arguing we should blindly keep Freeman and if he continues playing like he did the last 4 games we should keep him. I don’t think anyone wants that. However, there are just too many other things going on to throw Freeman under the Bus. For instance, we haven’t been able to run a lick even against 7 man fronts. When you can’t do that you are basically screwed as then they can sit in a two deep zone and force you to work it down the field. Which is Josh’s weak point. Add to that the fact we don’t have an upper eschelon tight end and our slot receiver was in a Kid ‘n Play cover band in the off season and you have a recipe for disaster.

    Also our defensive backfield is filled with people who shouldn’t even be on an NFL roster. Truth is if we had a middle of the pack Defense against the pass we would have 3 or 4 more wins and in the thick of the playoff hunt.

    Now, next year when we get Carl Nicks and Davin Joseph back as well as spending another year in the Offense I think his stats will reflect that and if not then maybe we look to the future. Heck, even if Freeman was an Elite QB I am all for drafting a QB to hold the clipboard and learn the offense until Freeman gets injured or leaves. Look what Green Bay did with Aaron Rodgers. Every team needs two QB’s.

  80. PRBucFan Says:

    Blah blah blah blah blah all words. Show me results than we’ll talk.

  81. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    Ryan Mallett=Aaron Rodgers

  82. pick6 Says:

    every new thing that gets added to the offense doesn’t just have to be learned by josh, it has to be learned by 10 other guys on the field also. josh is the guy who touches the ball every snap, so whether it’s him, a guard, a WR, or a RB that screws up, josh is the guy who looks clueless. i’m not saying josh is blameless, just that nobody in the stands or on their couch really knows what was supposed to happen on a given play, and who did or didn’t do their job

  83. Ramdog Says:

    If your point is so valid get someone with NFL clout (scout, talent evaluator, GM, etc.) to say that Freeman is worthless and should be traded or be quiet.

    You guys realize on a national stage this argument is making Freeman haters look like complete idiots. I have read at least 2 or 3 articles saying as much. Hmmm could there be a correlation one of the worst lowest educations in the country irrational, illogical opinions. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked. Next we are going to argue the world is flat and the Earth is the center of the Universe. Better pray to Zeus or he may shoot a lightning bolt at you.

    Just saying almost every rational person in the media is saying give him time etc., now if he does this year and year out sure cut him. But are you seriously going to cut or trade someone who will finish the year with probably 30 TD and around 15 INT behind a patchwork O-line and an inconsistent running game for an untested commodity aka Geno Smith.

    Byron Leftwich looked pretty good in College as did David Carr and they are on the free agent market next year we could get them.

  84. PRBucFan Says:

    Blah blah blah blah blah.
    Year in and year out is the common theme, that’s the point broski lol.
    Next year will be the last test for Free. May his play speak for itself.