The Mason Foster Conundrum
March 24th, 2012
Joe has gone on record suggesting no team in the NFL had worse production from its linebackers than the Bucs. When running backs turned the corner on the Bucs, it was a virtual cattle stampede down the sidelines.
Shoot, the Rams, even more wretched than the Bucs, at least had James Laurinaitis at middle linebacker.
Now part of the reason the Bucs struggled (yes, Joe’s trying to be nice) at linebacker is that Mason Foster was at middle linebacker. In many ways, Foster was put in a no-win situation. Though Bucs brass believed — may still do — he has the talents to play middle linebacker, Foster played outside linebacker at Washington.
Folks, going from outside linebacker in the PAC-12 to calling plays at middle linebacker in the NFL in a few months, is nearly as big of a leap in level of talent as going from Rosie O’Donnell to Rachel Watson.
Throw in the fact Foster had virtually no help on either side of him, it’s any wonder the guy struggled. Shoot, even Ray Nitschke would have had his hands full with such odds.
Now there has been some words seeped out of One Buc Palace that Foster may move to outside linebacker next year, though Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik has done his best to quash such talk.
Despite his ugly rookie season, Woody Cummings of the Tampa Tribune suggests, in a TBO Bucs Q&A, that the Bucs should not give up on the experiment of Foster at middle linebacker.
Q: Do you really think Foster can play another year at middle linebacker?
Jim Stafford, Cambridge, Ontario
A: Sure. I’m not big on judging players based on one year of play on a bad team. Imagine if the league had done that with Brett Favre or Ronde Barber or even Warren Sapp. I believe Foster can play several years at MLB and I know for a fact that the Bucs believe the same thing.
– Woody Cummings
Joe tends to agree. Foster was, again, put in a no-win situation. Without any help around him, without any offseason to speak of, learning a new position in an elite league, it almost makes one wonder if Foster was set up to fail?
If Foster is to return to the middle, he simply needs help on either side of him in the worst way.
March 24th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Could this be a reason the Bucs have not made the Lofton deal happen?
I heard he was going back to the Falcons but it could have been an internet rumor.
True about Favre and Sapp as well as many others over the years. I don’t know.
March 24th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Agree, Joe, but I also wouldn’t be shocked if Kuechly is the pick in round one. Call me crazy, but I even believe it’s possible he’s the pick at #5 even without a trade down if Claiborne is off the board. Probably take some heat for that statement, but I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility.
March 24th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
Cutting McKenzie last offseason was a BAD idea. Imagine if we couldve benched Geno or Black and slid Mason to either OLB position.
Also, letting Rudd go was a BIG mistake.
Anyway, Geno was a 6th round choice. What do you expect??
I hope we draft a LB in round 2 or 3 this year.
March 24th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
Impossible to draw any conclusions after the rookie without a training camp playing under a quacking duck posing as head coach playing on a pro team that quit…….I’ll give the kid a pass until this time next year……
March 24th, 2012 at 4:47 pm
If the Bucs pick Kuechly at 5 they would be picking for need rather than BPA. And that’s usually a losing way to draft. But with Mark Dominik calling the shots, would not surprise me a bit.
Foster at MLB was a dismal failure. Had he shown any ounce if improvement as the season progressed, I might see giving him a chance. But he just got worse each game.
March 24th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Foster has the talent and potential no doubt about it. I would like to see what he could do on the outside, but if he has to play middle I think he’ll be just fine.
March 24th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Teach,i totally agree.mckenzie was a stud and dc rah couldnt see it
March 24th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
I don’t think we should give up on Mason but if the Buc don’t fix the Lbs then all the big signings won’t matter.If you can’t stop the run then when is Josh going to get the chance to use his new toy?
March 24th, 2012 at 5:16 pm
Mason can be adequate anywhere but he
I’d like to see Lofton sign and be the Mike backer (6’0″ 246lbs 4.67 40), Draft a Will linebacker (Nigel Bradham/Sean Spence) and let Mase (6’1″ 246 lbs 4.65 40 40) battle it out with Black for Sam.
Keep Dakota and Adam Heyward as backups and our LBs are set.
March 24th, 2012 at 5:18 pm
*Mason can be adequate anywhere but he would fit best at Sam covering tight ends.
March 24th, 2012 at 5:18 pm
Roy Cummings, is a journalist, not a talent scout at the NFL level, for innumerable years making player evaluations and draft decisions. When talking about ANY 3RD round draft pick, play the 3RD rounder where he’s best, OLB…his position. Not a 1st rounder. No one, has any added incentive to MAKE MLB work out for this guy, that I know of?!
He’s a 3rd round LB, in any draft class. OLB. Play him there, sign a MLB. THEY ARE NOT nearly the same position. Urlacher is Urlacher, Brooks was Brooks, Ray Lewis is Ray Lewis…..they are standards at MLB, for a reason. Special.
Foster, is just an OLB, decent from Washington, 3rd Round. OLB. NO IDEA, what other hidden agenda might be motivating the Bucs’ redundancy here, if this is true?!?
March 24th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Tyrone McKenzie: The Stud with 5 career tackles. It’s amazing that some people still think he’s good just because he helped organize some workouts during the lockout. An undrafted FA rookie out of VALDOSTA STATE made it on the Vikings as a backup LBer over him. Let it go people.
Mason Foster is going to be good. Give him a full offseason and training camp with some competent coaches and he will be fine. Regardless, by my count we need 3 new Linebackers. A starting MLB or WLB(Foster plays the other) then a back up at each of those positions. Quincy Black obviously isn’t good but with his contract he isn’t going anywhere this year. Might as well see what he does under new coaching and a different scheme.
March 24th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Foster also looked great in preseason as well as the first 4 weeks of the regular season. After we lost McCoy and Grimm the entire defense went down hill fast. Nobody could expect a rookie to be a successful general of a defense as unprepared and dysfunctional as ours was last year.
March 24th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
bucbelevr….do you really think Brooks was a middle linebacker?
March 24th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
I think healthy DT play in front of him is much more responsible for his performance than the outside LBs.
March 24th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
@ bucbelevr
…Urlacher was actually a LB/Safety hybrid coming out of New Mexico and was listed as an OLB in the Draft…
March 24th, 2012 at 6:46 pm
And brooks was a ROLB
March 24th, 2012 at 6:49 pm
@ bucbelevr
Ummm…Barber was a third rounder…so was Lynch…and Lance Briggs…and Mike Vrabel…and Joey Porter…and actually Foster had a second round grade on most boards…he had NO support around AND had to make the reads and changes….c’mon man, the kid held his own better than most would have…he probably would fare better at OLB but he wasn’t that bad…
March 24th, 2012 at 6:54 pm
Great picture of Ms. Watson. Oh, Mason Foster, sure.
March 24th, 2012 at 7:43 pm
Still a few quality LB’s available out there, just hope Dominik doesn’t get too set on what he’s willing to pay and loses out on the few that are left. Would’ve liked to see Erin Henderson as a OLB, considering he only signed a $2 million, one yr deal. Still have Lofton, Hawthorne, Fletcher, Wheeler, Woodyard, Lawson, Dunbar, McIntosh and Mays out there.
March 24th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
@Teacherman777
Yep, Agree on both counts. 4 key factors destroyed this unit.
A. Cutting Brooks after he was coming off a good year.
B Loosing Ruud before we had someone to take the torch.
C. Signing Quincy Black to that (undeserving) Contract
D. Cutting Tyrone McKenzie. Should have at least kept him for depth.
See the biggest over all problem with the Bucs through that 3 year stint was Favortisim. Whether it was coming from Dominik pushing for his draft choices to play Or Raheem having his homeboys taking care of *cough* Talib *cough* Either way it was ridiculous, Better players were not given time to shine for what ever reason and it really hurt this team. We cut good/decent players and sign down right horrible players.
I hope 2012 is a different story. So far so good with the new changes being made. Cutting of true dead weight and signing of real talent. Thumbs up so far.
March 24th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
I think the kid Foster can do the job and eventually do it at a high level. I believe his skill set and potential is greater than Foster and Tulloch. Having said that, this goes to the point I made previously, London Fletcher is our guy. He’s a Pro Bowler w/ championship pedigree that would allow Foster to play both OLB and learn / backup the MLB. I’ll take a 37 year old pro bowler over an average or slightly above average 2 down MLB any day.
March 24th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
What did people expect out of Foster? Honestly? Like Joe pointed out. The Kid was set up to fail.
First year in the league, No Ota’s, Playing under a Lame Duck HC, Having to worry about calling plays, playing in a new position, and learning ON FIELD with no real LBer’s amongst the group.
Honestly i felt bad for him. But think he will do tons better this year.
March 24th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
I meant better than Lofton and Tulloch
March 24th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
I was high on Foster out of College, great motor, he really flashed I understood why Dom pounced on him.
However, Foster exemplifies how big of a jump PAC 10 to NFL is. Foster looked like a boy among men, frequently. His effort was still there butvge lacked thump. He also lacked speed which caused him to struggle in pass coverage.
I exited 2011 with major concerns about Foster. I know he is not a Mike. I think he can be good at Will or Sam; honestly, I am bot sure which one is better suited for him not knowing the intricacies of Schiano’s 4-3.
Foster isn’t good at taking on blocks or backs in the hole – meaning he is more of a pursuit backer typically a Will. But he also has troubling running with quick backs out if the backfield; so he may fit better at Sam lined up over the tight end.
Is he a Ryan Nece? Sam LB. Or Derrick Brooks? will LB. Don’t know yet.
Because he is tough and has a great motor, you have to think he will be fine. Last year was ugly though, then again look at who his coach was. The WOAT!
March 24th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
First of all, non of the other linebackers played better then Foster. And he was a rookie learning the NFL game. He was the defensive QB for a bad defense. Yes he didn’t play well. Who did on that defense. I saw when he squared up on a RB, he didn’t give up 5 extra yards (ran over) like Ruud. IF WE ALL CAN REMEMBER, SHELTON QUARLES WAS A OUTSIDE LINEBACKER WHEN HE CAME TO TAMPA. SOMEONE CAN CORRECT ME, BUT HE PLAYED BACKUP OLB FOR A FEW YEARS BEFORE MOVING TO MLB. HE DOES HAVE A SB RING AS THE STARTING MLB.
March 24th, 2012 at 9:09 pm
“… is nearly as big of a leap in level of talent as going from Rosie O’Donnell to Rachel Watson.” ~ LOL!!!!! =)
March 24th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
@Noleriff, Barber and Lynch had to play well before they earned starting jobs. These days in Tampa a 3rd rounder is assumed to be the starter without proper competition. Based on the way he played last season, if Dom believes Mason “deserves” another year at middle, we are in for another doomed year on defense. Dominik has to get a FA or another LB from draft that can compete with Mason for that job. Mason is a friggin 3rd rounder after all, not a 1st rounder to whom the starting job must be served in a silver platter.
March 24th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
Foster was horrible at MLB last year.
Without an offseason, thrown in to new position- bout only way that was gonna go
With off season, and a move back to his normal( as in- played his whole career) position, he might bring something to the table
But last year- yuck! Kid was a train wreck.
March 24th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Lofton just signed a 5 year deal with the Saints… There goes that plan… Rants engage 🙂
March 24th, 2012 at 10:09 pm
Curtis Lofton might have signed a 5 years deal with the aints…… damn
March 24th, 2012 at 10:21 pm
Grr
March 24th, 2012 at 10:28 pm
I know the Bucs need LB’s but I missing Lofton may have been a blessing. We’ll see, and hope for a good draft. Lofton may have just wanted to be a Saint all along thinking his chances were better to win. I think the Saints won’t be as bad without Payton as many think. It appears they are restocking players where the suspensions will come. Their defense wasn’t that great and not to hard to replace many of the losses. Spags is better than Williams IMO and Brees, like Manning can probably call his own plays and game. The good thing is we will be better this year and the Panthers should be too.
March 24th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
I called this when Joe wrote that article about the Saints punishments pushing Lofton to the Bucs. New Orleans is a desperate team right now. I’m sure they rolled out the casj for Lofton. Good riddance.
March 24th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
Lofton to saints, 5 year deal per bleacher report
March 24th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Please just sign a LB… somebody decent! We need help at LB
March 24th, 2012 at 11:00 pm
Oh yeah…Well…Lofton wasn’t good in pass coverage anyways! Um, yeah he was a bad fit for the Bucs scheme and who wants a 26 year old anyway we’re youngry right!(all sarcasm)…..
Ok now reality, we whiffed on Vilma years ago when he headed to the Saints, the Bucs made a strong push for him, hope we didn’t whiff again with Lofton. The reality is that we needed to pay more for guys to come here this year. We overpaid on Jackson and Wright (Nicks is about right). Don’t get me wrong I LOVE all 3 signings, but the Bucs were not at the top of everyones signing board. So we had to offer them more…Lofton wanted more, we didn’t offer it so he headed to the Saints, it is what it is. Gotta hope the Bucs have a plan, I believe Schiano has his eye on somebody specific, he is a defensive coach, strict disciplinarian, look for his MLB to be a mirror image.
March 24th, 2012 at 11:00 pm
Proves loften was interested in the paycheck rather than winning. Who in the world would wana go to the Saints after their mess.
March 24th, 2012 at 11:32 pm
Lofton signed with the saints
March 24th, 2012 at 11:39 pm
So what he’s off the available free agent lists. Coach up foster and get some help. Life goes on…
March 24th, 2012 at 11:42 pm
Lets grab Kuelchy in the first round and Z. Brown/Lavonte David in the second
They would be young but good for years to come as a complete unit.
March 24th, 2012 at 11:44 pm
and pick up Vilma after his suspension is up… In a way i think this was Dom’s and Schiano plan all along. To obtain Vilma.
March 24th, 2012 at 11:48 pm
Smart money is on Foster staying at MLB.
March 24th, 2012 at 11:56 pm
I would like to know where the hell did the “Aints get all this cap space from?
March 25th, 2012 at 12:13 am
Why in the world would anyone go into the disaster zone known as New Orleans Saints Organization let alone a linebacker? Like Curtis didnt you hear there bounty program just got canceled you are not gonna make anymore money than you wanted. Well now our only option other then drafting a rookie RISK LB we should sign Fletcher he played great last season hes got 2 more seasons in him IMO and he can groom Mason into a great NFL LB and hes probably not too expensive.
March 25th, 2012 at 12:17 am
I’m down with Fletcher for 3 reasons.
a. He can definitely teach the young Lbers how to play
b. He can still play at a high level
c. Would Give Ronde Someone closer to his age for him to hang out with and use as support on his teachings.
March 25th, 2012 at 12:19 am
@941buc 1 more reason HE WILL HIT TURNER AND TOLBERT HARD!!!!
March 25th, 2012 at 12:55 am
@941-Bucs
I had he same idea about doubling up LB’s. Luke Kuechly and Zack Brown/Lavonte David
Or 2nd Round-Zack Brown/LaVonte David and 3rd round-Tank Carder/Vontaze Burfict
Let the unit develop together.
Moreover, I think you are dead on about favoritism and bias. Dom is not being objective with his drafted players.
March 25th, 2012 at 1:08 am
Need to see the details on Lofton’s contract before I get too pissed. We have to sign a veteran linebacker period!
March 25th, 2012 at 2:08 am
Burfict is a walking disaster area. Vilma should be out a year I’d bet, so no help there. I still think Dom will trade the pick and draft 3 players for the one, maybe even a 1 in next year’s draft. If they don’t trade the pick, I could see drafting another D lineman/tackle possibly at #5. It would be nice to know the status on Price and if he is getting healthy, shaping up, and back to form. I haven’t seen any info on Price. Hopefully he’ll be at 1 Buc in a week or two.
March 25th, 2012 at 2:29 am
lofton gone now too, i really think we should sign fletcher. im not sure how much he would command salary wise. black and hayes didnt play too bad in 2010. maybe they think the new coaching staff can do something with them but im not sure if thats a gamble i want to take
March 25th, 2012 at 2:30 am
Wait, I retract that. I have no clue. I’ll wait and see how it plays out.
March 25th, 2012 at 2:40 am
The Saints are playing a dangerous game with their salary cap. They were at 1.28mil under the cap Friday am 3/23 after signing Broderick Bunckley. Since then they have signed LBs Chris Chamberlain and Curtis Lofton to long-term contracts. They are going to have to do a lot of cutting and/or restructuring to get underneath the cap again. Desparate times – desparate moves!
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/32824/nfc-south-in-big-salary-cap-trouble
March 25th, 2012 at 2:50 am
JLM Says:
March 24th, 2012 at 11:00 pm
Proves loften was interested in the paycheck rather than winning. Who in the world would wana go to the Saints after their mess.
————————————————————————–
Even with the mess they are in, Saints have Drew Brees and will most probably win more games than us in 2012. Once Payton is back, Saints will likely be back contending for Superbowl rather than hoping to make playoffs like our Bucs are. Also considering the cap space Saints had, it is possible Lofton got a smaller contract with them compared to what Dom offered. Finally Lofton would have saved more playing in FL because of no state tax.
May be Lofton wasn’t after money, may be he wanted to go to a team in limelight that is primed to win the big one now and for years to come.
March 25th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
I have a feeling the suspensions will free up cap room for the Saints.
March 26th, 2012 at 12:35 am
They won’t cut Vilma even if he is suspended for the year. Suspended players don’t count towards the cap.
March 26th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
Attending all the mini camps this off season.
A full training camp with actual teachers.
Heavy handed discipline by the Head Coach.
Finally drafting Dontari Poe will go a long way to helping the mlb position. The line needs one more quality DT who plays fast and can help stop the run.
In my opinion If he is not traded this year this could be Roy Millers last year. He really needs to step up. He really didnt help Mason much playing in front of him.
The tape does not lie.