Defensive Line: Substandard
November 16th, 2010
After a solid rookie season, Bucs defensive tackle Roy Miller has regressed.
People from the drunk at the neighborhood bar to seasoned, educated, reasoned former NFL players like Steve White and Ian Beckles can see that the Bucs defensive line has been nothing short of inept this year, with the exception of stud rookie Gerald McCoy.
Joe’s good friend Justin Pawlowski has seen — and read — enough excuses. He’s fed up and he’s manning up and he’s being real. The WDAE-AM 620 on-air personality believes if not for the Bucs, the defensive line, sans GMC, would be working at Publix.
I learned that, other than Gerald McCoy, the Bucs do not have a defensive lineman that would start on another NFL team. Gerald McCoy was close to being great on Sunday. With that being said, the rest of the defensive line played 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage all day long. Stylez White is playing himself right out of Tampa. The rest of the defensive ends are non-existent. Roy Miller might be one of the bigger disappointments on the Bucs this year. I’m not looking for impact plays from Miller, but that dude has to hold his ground, and he is not. With that being said, the main point is that McCoy was very good and the rest of the defensive line will be replaced this off-season. Can you imagine how good Gerald McCoy would be with better players around him like Ndamukong Suh?
Now Joe thinks the world of Stylez White, but like GMC, if the guy isn’t getting any help, exactly how much can one expect from him?
Joe’s been saying it. Steve White has been saying it. Beckles has been saying it. Either Mark Dominik has swung and missed on each and every defensive line acquisition (except GMC and Stylez White), or quite simply the guys on the line are just not being coached up.
How is it that Miller put up some of the best numbers for a rookie defensive tackle last year and this year, he’s invisible?
It’s difficult for Joe to believe that Dominik has made that many mistakes in drafting/signing talent on the defensive front when Dominik has hit home runs virtually at every other position.
When Miller regresses this terribly, when Stylez White’s numbers drop off the cliff, when no one else can stop a cool breeze other than GMC, that speaks volumes to Joe.
November 16th, 2010 at 8:36 am
Expect girlavatar to come to the rescue on this one. The nerve of you to scrutinize this 6-3 Bucs team JBF.
Its obvious the defense is terrible, they couldn’t even stop Goodson. They were greatful to draw yet another unproven NFL QB ftw.
Disclaimer: Offense is promising and gives the Bucs a chance. The defense hurts the team.
That little diddy had to be put in place so the knee jerking shemales who defend the Bucs like mother hens wont freak and lose their minds in the face of justified scrutiny on the terrible defense led by Raheem.
November 16th, 2010 at 9:19 am
I think it’s past time we all get together and pick out a new defensive line coach. Check out a few of these guys and tell us what you think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPbygi7frFk
http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2010/08/syracuse_university_defensive_1.html
If we can’t acquire top college talent, maybe it’s high time we throw money at a Ed Orgeron of USC, or John Teerlinck of the Colts, who has produced guys like John Randle and Keith Mallard.
At this point, i’d take Pee Wee Herman! (Don’t laugh, I truely think he could do a better job!)
November 16th, 2010 at 9:27 am
I think Todd Walsh will be working along side some of the guys at Publix, come next season.
November 16th, 2010 at 9:46 am
I agree. We all know they NEED to draft a stud DE with a relentless motor… mayb two.
GMC is a rookie and will get better and has been, .
White… I am not sold on. We have been told that he is very good and the numbers will come for about 3 years now.
Miller… it must be coaching or a second year let down. I would stick with him as the 3rd guy rotating in when Price comes back.
As for the rest of the DEs… Bennet is the only one I see flashes from and he is a back up and should remain a backup in the future most likely.
The offense is making great strides. The defense is 2 years away because they need DEs and a Safety and a MLB. Of course, as the season goes on I am wondering if they don’t need ALOT more help at the LB positiion.
This next draft:
Rounds 1-3
DE, MLB, DE (maybe a safety if a stud is there)
Rounds 4-6
O-Line help, speedy RB (IF they don’t have faith in Huggins being that guy and staying healthy.
November 16th, 2010 at 9:52 am
Reagrding the economy, at the macro level, although Tampa is taking a beating… and yes, I even think that the local economy is the #1 culprit of weak ticket sales, #2 I think you know the answer to that.
But check this out:
How
1. The national bank declares an extremely low rate of interest, for example 0.5%.
2. The national bank credits its own bank account with money created from ‘thin air’, probably just by adding to a number on its computer.
3. The newly created money is then used for buying government bonds from financial firms such as banks, insurance companies and pension funds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing
I mean, I sure as hell wish I could do this crap to MY own bank account.
Joe, didn’t you have a comment about everyone’s bank accounts magically being flush with cash for Christmas? Looks like the Fed just added a few more zeros on their account.
November 16th, 2010 at 10:02 am
This offseason, I’m praying that we release Kyle Moore, fire Todd Wash, sign Rod Marinelli as our defensive CoOrdinator, sign a veteran pass rushing DE, and draft a pass rushing DE in the first two rounds.
November 16th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Not to make excuses and Correct me if im wrong, but didnt miller play a lot more 3 technique last year with Hovan taking most of the nose tackle snaps?
November 16th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Joe-not exactly like Dom has invested heavily on the Dline other than the 2 tackles we picked up this year.Crowder and Bennett were both free agents and White and Sims are Gruden leftovers. Between free agency and the draft the Dline will be the top priority this off season.Look what they’ve accomplished in 2 years on the offense.Defense is next.
November 16th, 2010 at 10:08 am
I think Steve White summed it up pretty well… nobody could say it better than he did. The players aren’t being put in the right position to do well. This comes down to the coaching. Yarber and Olsen are doing a great job which is why the offensive rookies are doing so well…. not so much on the defensive site. I agree with JDouble: hire Marinelli or Lovie Smith as Def Coordinator/Line coach. I think Raheem is doing a great job as HC but needs to have someone who can take advantage of the talent and skillset available to them. Just like they found a way to make the most of a bunch of rookies and street FAs on offense, they should be able to do it on D.
November 16th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Marinelli is a good DL coach and would be worth it to sign him if available. Raheem does fine with the DC duties, but if you don’t have talent on the DL, and we don’t except for McCoy and Price, you won’t get much accomplished.
November 16th, 2010 at 10:17 am
We have called for Todd wash to be fired, and that may be extreme at this point but, he is their Coach and they are worst in the league for the most part as a unit. We have also called for the Bucs to get Wash some help. Last year they had 2 D line coaches. If a poll was to be taken on Wash, or on the Bucs hiring Steve White as at least a consultant, we know how it would turn out. They also have Greg Lloyd as a coach. I don’t what he is doing, but he had 54.5 sacks as a Steelers LB and was a mean SOB and played with Kevin Greene who was another crazed LB sack machine. I read Bull Rush last night and the 3-3-5 was a big issue on Sunday. I can see Justin calling out players, but when Steve White points out continuous mistakes in technique and running stunts wrong over and again, every game, you have to look at the coaching. If that means Raheem, then it is on him too. rah needs to make some changes, because he is completely out of excuses. 6-3 aside, if the D line was just average, say 16’th in performance, the Bucs would be 8-1 or possibly 9-0. Think about it.
November 16th, 2010 at 10:17 am
I think Al Woods has looked very good at nose tackle in his limited play. He has looked better than Miller even though he has only been on our roster for two weeks. Hopefully we’ve stolen another gem with that guy.
November 16th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Why wait till the off season to fire Todd Wash? Do it now. He’s underachieving and one of the things this organization does well is get rid if guys when their not producing. Fire this bum and get give someone else a shot. It really can’t get any worse for the D line when your the worse in football.
November 16th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Yes, the line is substandard. But are we like the stupidest people on earth? Raheem Morris said in preseason that the line would struggle, and the defense was “a year out” on being decent. Yet every two F%#king weeks, some talking head in the media says” d-line is substandard!!!! “and we act like he just dug up the Ten Commandments! With God’s signature on them!! Ya, we get that the line is struggling. I’ll do this again. Our line consist of rookies McCoy,Price,Woods.1st year players Miller,Moore,Bennett,and Crowder. Veterans White and Sims. And you were expecting? Next year, all the rooks and 1st years will be better. I have seen enough talent in all of them to give them until next year, to see if they’ve improved. Sims has never been productive. White has probably had his last “Lazy Camp”. The Bucs will be investing heavily on the line in both Draft Picks and FA. More importantly, they will upgrade LBs. It’s funny to me that everyone beats on the line fulla rookies, yet ignores our invisible crew of linebackers, who returned intact again this year, yet Black and Hayes avoid playing run defense like they were made of glass. I don’t know if Todd Wash is a good coach. Miller regressing is a bad sign. But DL usually takes a couple years to “get it”. And D-Line often suffer “the sophomore jinx”. Either way, this will all get fixed this offseasoo
November 16th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Yes, the line is substandard. But are we like the stupidest people on earth? Raheem Morris said in preseason that the line would struggle, and the defense was “a year out” on being decent. Yet every two F%#king weeks, some talking head in the media says” d-line is substandard!!!! “and we act like he just dug up the Ten Commandments! With God’s signature on them!! Ya, we get that the line is struggling. I’ll do this again. Our line consist of rookies McCoy,Price,Woods.1st year players Miller,Moore,Bennett,and Crowder. Veterans White and Sims. And you were expecting? Next year, all the rooks and 1st years will be better. I have seen enough talent in all of them to give them until next year, to see if they’ve improved. Sims has never been productive. White has probably had his last “Lazy Camp”. The Bucs will be investing heavily on the line in both Draft Picks and FA. More importantly, they will upgrade LBs. It’s funny to me that everyone beats on the line fulla rookies, yet ignores our invisible crew of linebackers, who returned intact again this year, yet Black and Hayes avoid playing run defense like they were made of glass. I don’t know if Todd Wash is a good coach. Miller regressing is a bad sign. But DL usually takes a couple years to “get it”. And D-Line often suffer “the sophomore jinx”. Either way, this will all get fixed this offseasoo
November 16th, 2010 at 10:49 am
I think that in all fairness the DC should be fired, just like last years DC was fired for allowing the same numbers. Raheem wasn’t ready to be a defensive coordinator, much less a head coach.
Raheem’s “alledged” Forte is defense. So, if Raheem can’t put together a defensive scheme that works, how is it that you can lend any credibility to saying he has “done a wonderful job as head coach”? Because Olsen has done a good job & Freeman has been astounding? I didn’t see anyone suggest that Bates get a new d-line coach last year. His crappy defense was properly put directly on his shoulders. Now Raheem’s defense is putting up virtually the same numbers and everyone is blaming the d-line coach instead of properly laying the blame on the Defensive coordinator. Amazing! The only positive I see in Raheem is his motivational skills. So create a motivational coaching position and get us a Defensive Coordinator & Real Head Coach and we can go to the SB.
November 16th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Sorry Capt Tim…not buying it. We are in danger of breaking the least amount of sacks in a season. I wasn’t expecting this line to come out and be world beaters, but they are beyond horrible. There is no way that all of these guys can be that bad. It has to be the coaching. Young guys don’t magically figure it out and get better themselves. They need good, knowedgable coaches to mentor them and pass along knowledge/experience to help them evolve. Wash has not been able to do that.
I look no further than our WR coach Yarber to prove the point that position coaches are very important. Do you think that our young recieving core would be doing so well under the tutelage of Richard Mann? What could have been with Clayton and Stovall if we’d had Yarber instead of Mann years ago? I don’t want to make the same mistake on the D-line. We need to spend some money and get the best possible proven D-line coach available. I think Marinelli makes perfect sense.
November 16th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Hey, but that secondary is looking great! Grimm has been a huge surprise! Still think his future is at SS. Wonder if Ronde makes the switch to FS his of season. Might extend his career, but he’s having an Allpro year this year. Mack struggled. Need ta see Lewis back in the game
November 16th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Tampa2, Rah’s forte is the secondary and our secondary has been great with unproven guys like Biggers and Grimm playing a big roles. They’ve done this with no pass rush what so ever which is amazing.
Rah has called great defense. We’ve basicly shut teams out the second half. With the talent we have on that side of the ball, Rah has done a great job at masking our weaknesses and holding things together.
The problem is the front seven. We need better talent and better position coaches. In the end it does fall on Rah’s shoulders, so he needs to make the required moves this offseason to insure he has a better staff next year with more play makers in key spots.
November 16th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Well said tampa2, well said.
All you will hear is the second half excuse.
Jim Bates was at fault last year.
This year, the DC, no??? Oh, yeah, somebody else, anybody else.
I do agree with JDouble as a secondary option to ousting Rah:
“JDouble Says:
November 16th, 2010 at 10:02 am
This offseason, I’m praying that we release Kyle Moore, fire Todd Wash, sign Rod Marinelli as our defensive CoOrdinator, sign a veteran pass rushing DE, and draft a pass rushing DE in the first two rounds.”
November 16th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Imagine how much better the secondary would be playing if opposing quarterbacks actually knew there were defensive lineman trying to drill him?
November 16th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Stop letting Rah call plays too.
November 16th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Ah, look! Tampon 2 has joined us again, with his brilliant and asute observations. Stil think we are only gonna win two games this year? Still think Freeman is a flop? Still crying to fire Morris to get fired? Lmao and town fool tampon2! SILENCE town fool, we will call you when the need to laugh at the foolishness of another arises. Til then, return to your home amongst the swine! Lol, ah that cracks me up! Jdouble- not buying what? I wasn’t selling anything, brother! I was pointing out that a Dline consisting of 3 rookies, 4 first year players, and 2 not so good vets was doomed to failure this year! Marinelli couldn’t have changed that! But I agree- if Richard Mann was still coaching our WRs, I don’t think you would have heard of Mike Williams, Arrelious Benn, or Parker this year! I’m not defending Wash, I just know that D-line is a much harder adjustment than WR, because you have to increase your strenght AND technique soooo much. But I definately think we need A DC, to free up Coach Morris more. And if Wash isn’t “Gettin ‘er done!”, then let’s get him out if here. Just don’t know how any of you can pretend to know, given the babies he was given to work with. Either way, would love ta see Marinelli here as either D line or DC next year!
November 16th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Ah, Buc yourselfrahdom, yer such a funny Lil monkey! Fire the coach of the year, and hottest coaching commodity in the NFL right now?oh, yeah, you should be a GM!! Lmfao at the stupidity of bucing himselfrahdom! How does one become so delusional and confused,oh great Klansman? What is your secret? Lol! Care to make any predictions while your here? We know you’ll slither away soon, so what do you think? How many more games will we win, oh wise one? Who should be our next coach? Should we get rid of this Williams kid? Enlighten us with your wisdom, before you crawl back under your rock, oh slimey one!
November 16th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Think the Bucs knew that Miller was a not that good . I mean we spent a 2nd round pick on Price. Everybodys hype on Kyle Moore I never understood it saying he is good is like saying a Camry is better than a Lexus. alot of people need to be replaced on this D. MLB, Whatever postion Quincy black plays DE’s. I think this years draft will focus on that. Sad cause I think are secondary is and can be greater with a pass rush
November 16th, 2010 at 11:45 am
ROFL @ Capt. Tim’s SILENCE town fool!
Cracks me up EVERY time!
November 16th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
The difference between last year and this year is the record. If the bad positions on defense fall on Morris, so do all of the successes on offense. In the end he is running the entire team and is responsible for the good times and the bad times. Capt Tim is right, we did not expect the defense to be great, but we also did not expect the offense to shine like it is. The success makes everyone nuts about the bad defense. The rebuilding has been sped up, so expectations have changed. you will see more balance and a better defense next year. Some of you have said that the team wins despite Morris and that the players deserve the credit, but then you say the bad players are his fault. You cannot have it both ways. Do not pull out the quality of teams issue either, since Tampa was supposed to be dead last. ATL, CAR, and NO play the same schedule as well. Enjoy the winning record and the fun games to watch. I was at Sunday’s game, and it had to be close to a sellout.
Also, the coach in charge of motivation is the head coach, but it is shared by every coach on the team.
November 16th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Well said McBuc.
If the O wasn’t this good, we wouldnt think the D is holding us back that much — thus wouldnt complain about it so much. Its just feels like we have so much potential if the D would stop weighing us down.
Capt. Tim,
I agree with sensible. The SILENCE town fool! makes me smile every time. You should vary the 2nd part for more humor rather than always saying go back to the swine pen. Up to you, but either way keep it up man, funny stuff!
November 16th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
can we please stop pretending that stylz white is a good nfl de. he doesnt even get off the ball unless its a 3rd and long situation and even then all he does is run around the horn.
November 16th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
tampa 2,buc you,we could only draft so many players,remember we had leroy selmon,john randle,and bruce smith last year,and all those great free agents were available and wanted to sign with this dynasty that was left here,all the talent rahiem inherited,yep your right fire the coach,fire the whole d-line draft stud def-ends,stud def tackles,and wait three years for them to develope so you can cry about that two,but if the coach was diffirent,say if he had better hair,you would quit being total jerks and enjoy this rebuild.but instead you complain that he has devloped the offense to fast for defense,
November 16th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
“The difference between last year and this year is the record. If the bad positions on defense fall on Morris, so do all of the successes on offense. In the end he is running the entire team and is responsible for the good times and the bad times. ”
Tha bullsh1T.
Last year he fired his OC and DC, and blamed Sabby. No one laid blame on Raheem for losing last year.
This year, it’s not the DC’s fault… it’s the D-Line coach’s fault.
November 16th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
buc you, so he was wrong for benching Sabby?Sabby seems to be embracing his role on special teams and doing quite well,man I dont come on here to curse you or get under your skin nobodys perfect and I sure am not,i come here to hear other point of views because im bias about the bucs,i love them right or wrong,so if you give me a reason why i should feel like you feel about Morris ill will be more than happy to hear it,you really dont see the defense getting better,you dont think any one on the def-line is showing improvement?the secondary doesnt look better?to me rahiem and dominic are rebuilding this thing faster then jimmy johnson.man just let me no who would be coachig us with rookies that have a upside and be on pace to have the same record as chucky when he is clearly a better coach,and he had veterans,some were hall of famers
November 16th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Buc You…Morris is fast to blame himself when things go wrong, I am not sure why you always say otherwise. The first OC and DC were apparently bad fits for the way Morris and Dom want to run the team. The defense will come along, they are a young bunch and you can only do so much at one time. if you fail to see an improvement in the team as a whole, there really is not much I can say that will change your mind. Last year EVERYONE blame3d the coach, but reasonable people understand that young coaches rarely have great rookie seasons, so they said to give him another year to see improvement…and tada…we have improvement. If you think last year’s team would have beaten this year’s schedule you must be insane. We may have won one additional game with this schedule. You blame Morris for hiring his original guys, but he also picked Olson, who I am sure you bashed like hell last year, so credit him for that. I agree that the defense needs to improve, but come on man! You have to admit that the team is better than last year. It is one thing to have a balanced team after building for years, but to have one in a rebuilding stage is unheard of. It is a process that takes time. I am sure we will see talent added in the upcoming draft and FA.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Oh, and he was right to bench Sabby, he never blamed him…the fans did, but clearly something needed to be done.
November 16th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Mcbuc, thats to complicated for some to understand
November 16th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Mike…it aoppears so.
November 16th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Raheem Morris is “getting a pass” for the “substandard D” because of a couple things. Sure, a winning record and playoff push are part of it. Beyond that, it’s a Head Coaches responsibility to motivate players, to get the most out of them…. that’s the whole team, not just the head coaches specialty. He’s done that, he’s got the team playing til the clock strikes zero. He’s got a “team” out there that’s got each others backs. When the special teams has a bad day (like last Sunday), the offense picks it up. When the offense has too many drive killing “illegal shift” penalties, the D steps up and holds them to 13 points on 4 possessions started at mid-field or in our territory. That’s just it, as a head coach, Raheem Morris has these guys playing for each other, and fighting til the last seconds tick off. That’s why he gets a pass, not because he turned the D around in a year (he hasn’t), but because he’s got these guys playing better than their age and/or ability should allow.
November 16th, 2010 at 8:01 pm
Last year Miller was developing because the interior d-linemen were coached by Robert Nunn (who is now the Giants’ d-line coach). Now that Todd Wash is coaching the whole d-line, he has regressed. Wash is a big part of the problem. He is not an NFL-caliber coach.
November 16th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Well said, CyberDilemma. I agree about Nunn. Look at the Giants D-line, they’re playing pretty well.
November 16th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Maybe if we stopped messing around with all of these aligments, and actually had the D line playing the same positions consistently we’d be happier with the results. Its a 1 gap system that’s intended to divert runners to the line backers and pressure the QB. How do you expect that to happen when McCoy lines up at D end in a 3 man front and we try to get pressure by blitzing 1 linebacker or corner? Maybe we should try to get really good at a base defense before we try to run these exotic formations Rah is so excited about.
November 17th, 2010 at 10:13 am
Well Tugboat Timmie, I see Mommy gave you back your little bath tub tugboat so you can play cap’t again. You are very witty. But tell us, please, why you do not counter with facts instead of 6th grade humor. Oh, I forgot, that’s what bath tub captains do. sorry! The facts are, timmie, that Our current DC has the same sorry stats as our last DC had. You do remember him, don’t you? Bates! At least Bates excuse was that he was trying to install a whole new defense that called for very large defensive linemen, which he never got before he was fired, I might add. nevertheless, Bates was blamed & fired as DC for his D allowing the “same” yardage as your current “amateur” DC/HC.
What is amazing to me now is that Raheem has somehow Morphed into an Offensive genius because “offense” is the “only” reason for these wins. It couldn’t be that olsen has done a great job, or that Freeman “is” the team.
nope, If it weren’t for Morris, none of these guys could function. Bull!
Yes, McBuc, I bashed Olsen too. But he has made a believer out of me for sure. He should be nominated for “coach of the year” for what he did with Freeman in the off-season, and for his offensive schemes & calling plays that Freeman executes to perfection. However, do “any” of you actually believe that an ass’t secondary coach (which some called defensive genius last year after firing Olsen) has learned the offense too? How about Defense? Raheem is like a 16 year old kid that has been handed the keys to a corvette and that can only spell disaster. Raheem is way to young and in over his head to be DC, much less HC. Unlike Bates, who took responsibility for his defense and was fired mid-season, this DC/HC comes up with some wild schemes that never work, gives up the same yardage as the last DC, yet all of you blame the line coach, Washington. Who hired Washington? better yet, who let go of Nunn, who has put together a great D-line in NY? Olsen is having a great year with his offense, Bisaccia is having a good year with his ST’s, but the albatross around all of their necks is the defense, who has giving up just as many yards as Bate’s defense did last year, yet Raheem is glorified instead of fired. No, Mike56Wesley, it has nothing to do with “hair”, but has everything to do with inexperience. By the way, we have beaten Carolina twice. Go back and look at the 1st win stats, and then last Sundays stats, and notice that the D is not getting better, but worse. And this last game featured another rookie QB and a 4th string 100 yard running back. Lol