No Jim Bates For The Lightning

May 26th, 2010

Yes, Joe’s over the ridiculousness of hiring Jim Bates as Bucs defensive coordinator last year.

Sure, Bates was very qualified on paper. But as the Bucs forced a defensive scheme on the team without the horses to run said scheme, it was obvious Mark Dominik and Raheem The Dream had made a fundamental error in hiring Bates. They learned the hard way that a coordinator’s job is to best utilize the talent on the roster, not hope for the best from a scheme that doesn’t fit the players.

For Joe, the whole Bates thing bubbled to the surface yesterday, as Joe was glued to WDAE-AM 620 listening to the Tampa Bay Lightning introduce their new general manager, Steve Yzerman.

Yzerman fielded a detailed question about what kind of hockey team he wants to develop from Day 1– a speed time, a finesse team, a physical team, etc.

The response from Yzerman was quick and direct: “The style of play is dictated by the players you have,” Yzerman said.

That got Joe wondering why that was a such an easy answer from Yzerman, yet Dominik and Raheem The Dream didn’t understand that concept when they set out to build a winner in 2009. That’s still scary.

Joe believes Dominik and Raheem The Dream learned their lesson big time. But it’s still disturbing that the Bates debacle ever happened.

32 Responses to “No Jim Bates For The Lightning”

  1. Marlow Says:

    Dito… Joe! Puting square pegs in round holes is scary, but I am happy the problem was identified and corrected by our humbled leaders. I look forward to a more familiar and aggressive defense this season. However, we are out of excuses if we fail to improve.

  2. Jonny Says:

    Can we expect any articles on the Bull Rush column soon?

  3. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    Jonny – Bull Rush is usually once a week. You can check them all out here.

    Last week, former Buccaneer Steve White, author of the popular Bull Rush column, cranked out a very interesting two-part Bull Rush sit down with Stylez White. Anyone who missed it should check it out.

    I’m sure they’ll be more Bull Rush soon

  4. DieHard Bob Says:

    I know that Buc news is pretty slow right now and that Mark and Rah made more than their share of mistakes last year, but you really need to get over the whole Jim Bates hire and move on. I think if we stop seeing his name and mug on this site it will be a beautiful thing. Let’s stop beating a dead horse (Bates).

  5. Gary Says:

    At the end of Chuckys last season, it was obvious something had to change on D. Even with Kiffin running the show, teams were destroying us. Then we heard rumblings of the tampa-2 being outdated.

    So it was obvious why Rah wanted to try something new. The new style was alot worse than what had b/f, and give him credit for recognizing it and taking his lumps and firing Bates.

    Can’t fault him for trying to make a change, but the way he implemented it was majorly flawed. I think his mistake was to move too far away from the tampa-2 philoshophy at once. He went straight from a scheme which needed smaller faster players to larger space eaters. That was the stupid move, he should have gradually moved away from the old scheme. Then the results wouldn’t have been so bad. The silver lining in going for it all at once was it showed everyone it wouldnt work and led to the firing of Bates sooner rather than later.

  6. Joe Says:

    DieHard Bob:

    I know that Buc news is pretty slow right now and that Mark and Rah made more than their share of mistakes last year, but you really need to get over the whole Jim Bates hire and move on. I think if we stop seeing his name and mug on this site it will be a beautiful thing. Let’s stop beating a dead horse (Bates).

    Joe can’t pass up a good post when he sees one, like tomorrow morning for example. 🙂

  7. bucfanjeff Says:

    “Joe can’t pass up a good post when he sees one, like tomorrow morning for example.” – However many “Joe’s” write for this site, have one do something for In all honesty, that site is pathetically ignored.

  8. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    bucfanjeff – Thanks for your support of Our trial run over there is either headed for a re-launch for the new season, or it will be shelved. Nothing has been posted there since the season ended. It’s a business decision that had to be made in order to provide more Bucs-related content on this site than anywhere else. …Thanks for your patience.

  9. jvato24 Says:

    The Bucs running Bates Defense may be a blessing in disguise as the Defense had to learn techniques they would never have used otherwise .. Now that we may see alot more bump and run coverage the Defenders are more versatile .. JMO

  10. Dave Says:

    I agree with DieHard Bob :

    Get over it already. It is not a news story. On the positive side, give Raheem and Mark some credit for realizing the mistakes at O- and D- Coordinator and correcting them sooner rather than later.

    They are young and mistakes happened. THey also had the cajones to admit to them, correct them, and move on… which is more than some older more experienced coaches are stubbornly willing to do (Gruden? Tom Coughlin in Jax? Shula with Marino and the lack of a running game? etc… etc… etc…)

  11. nick Says:

    Hey Joe, listened to Yzerman on Sileo this morning. Said he was building through the draft and that it was going to be a process to get this team winning again. What is wrong with these people?

  12. Chiz Says:

    All a you shouldn’t be so quick to forgive and forget the Bates mess. You don’t just get a pass on throwing away a freaking NFL season just to come back the next year and say we’re rebuilding with rookies.

    I’m praying for wins. But I’m numb already. This team isn’t that good.

  13. buckeyebob Says:

    Get the hell over the Bates/Jag thing. Get the dead horses !!They saw it did not work and moved to fix it. If they let it ride till the end of the year you would be bitching about them not makeing the tough choices.I bet you still gripe about you HS girlefriend dumping you butts.

  14. Louie Says:

    @Chiz, I’m with you man!

    I’m hoping for the best, expecting the worst. I’m not at all convinced these guys running/coaching the Bucs have their act together.

  15. jvato24 Says:

    I find it good entertainment from this point .. IMO the team hit rock bottom in week 7 against the Patriots .. And are on the upswing .. Some people just love to bitch and moan .. It will be fun to watch this team develop and no matter the doomsdayers say there is young talent on the team ..

    Gruden was a great motivator .. Sucked as a playcaller

  16. Big Marlon B Says:

    simple answer Joe. because Steve Yzerman was part of one of the most successful, well run SPORTS (not just hockey) organizations on the planet. the Red Wings know how to find talent, develop it, and do the best with what they have. the fact that Yzerman was the center of that organization for years tells you that he knows how to build a winner.

  17. thomas Says:

    The headline should have been – there will be no RADIO MORRIS’ coaching the lightning.

    The decision to change away from the Tampa 2 without the right players for the Bates system was Radios’ – why can’t you idiots see that. Radio hired Bates for a purpose – go away from the Tampa 2. When it turns out to be disastrous Radio seeks a scapegoat and fires bates – and all of you Gruden haters who have an investment in Radio say – great job letting go of Bates – that is ludicrous – Bates was completely scapegoated.

    Everyone is saying now how laughable the teams practices were last year w/ music and dancing etc – the whole org was a joke – which is on the H.C.

    Radio has one season in and that was a season where He/Radio forced his team to play a style that they were not prepared for and when it didnt work he fired the people who implemented the system not the people who made the decision to go to it. Crazy thing is – you sheep fell for it and are acrtually giving credit for it.

    Under that premise – the HC cant do anything wrong so long as someone else – either a player or asst coach gets blamed.

    I am embarrassed to be associated w/ this crap!

    Jags and Bates were not the problem – the

  18. d-money Says:

    “I am embarrassed to be associated w/ this crap”

    You’re not “associated” with any crap. You’re a fan (allegedly). You can stop being one anytime you want to.

  19. jvato24 Says:

    Thomas .. You are comical .. You call Raheem Morris Radio like is he is slow or retarded yet he has probably accomplished more than you and made more money than you at 33 yrs old than you ever will .. So my question to you is .. If Raheem Morris is slow .. What does that make you ?

  20. Eric Says:

    I compliment the Lightning for conducting a thorough search and landing who they felt was the best possible candidate for the GM position.

    It appears that exhaustive process has produced a highly credible GM from an outstanding organization.

    Contrast that to how Dom and Rah were simply handed their jobs and the current Buccaneer fiasco is easier to understand.

  21. thomas Says:


    Radio hasnt accomplished anything yet. yes I do believe that you, I and Joe could have coached that team to its 3 wins last season.

    Radio was handed a job b/c he took it for little $ while the Glazers experimented w/ a cheap coach until after the CBA. I do not think that he is retarded or slow – but he is a terrible communicator and because most of what he says is unintelligible – I call him Radio b/c that is who he reminds me of. Trust me, I know Radio wants to do well – I want to play NFL – but like Radio – I dont have the talent.

    I am a fan of this org for many years, love this blog on almost all occasions, but I must vent when I think things are being inaccurately characterized – like the Jags and Bates blame w/ Radio getting credit for being an idiot.

    I will not stop being a fan but will continue to express my disbelief at what has happened to this franchise in 2 years. I believe that fans have the ability to hold ownership’s feet to the fire – and if you dont and just accept the b.s. – you get continuous 3-13 seasons.

  22. jvato24 Says:

    Thomas- Thats Fair .. The good thing about keeping Raheem is he knows the team and I feel is a great coach .. Maybe not a great Head Coach .. But the team is sticking to what the Defense great years ago .. His 1st year was rough but this year should be better .. if its not better this year many will get their wish for a new HC .. Im just not sure starting over will help us in the near future ..

  23. thomas Says:

    the basis for my radio negativity is this:

    When Gruden was fired I was okay with it and in some respects excited that the team would upgrade by going after a Cowher-quality guy.

    When Radio was hired I was supportive and went to game 1 excited for what I was going to see, hoping to be impressed. I left that games with doubts, and over the course of the year it became obvious that Radio was hired w/o any competition b/c he was cheap (due to the CBA and $ still owed to Gruden) – Radio was not hired b/c he is capable of being a quality head coach.

    I agree that he appears to be a decent DB coach, but he doesnt have the leadership, organizational or communicative skills to be a H.C. now.

    So, I beat on Rah a little so that others may be enlightened to this point of view and not fooled by the Dom/Glazer nonsense.

  24. BigMacAttack Says:

    It’s really too bad Jim’s parents didn’t name him Norman. Could have had a lot of fun with that, but “master” has to do.

    That pic makes him look like a real “Girly Maan”.

  25. BigMacAttack Says:

    We are all entitled to our opinions and comments, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to call Raheem “Radio”. He doesn’t like it and it is pretty disrespectful if you ask me. Once or twice, yea sure, but it’s getting old fast. Rah didn’t put him in the position he’s in, the Glazers did. He is doing his best, and he isn’t the best public speaker, but he isn’t a bad guy, and doesn’t deserve that moniker. Just my opinion.

    Thomas, show a little more class, and act like a man, even if you are only 37, and living with your parents.

  26. thomas Says:

    It is nice to be told to act like a man from a guy who calls himself BIGMACATTACK! And I am 45 and my parents live with me. j/k

    With that said – much of what you said in the first paragraph is true – he is not a bad guy and his intentions are good – agreed. The name radio is probably a little below the belt but it just fits so well and that nickname best illustrates a point – how unqualified he is to head coach in the nfl.

    The best way for him to change many of our feelings, is to quit or improve and if they start winning I will be the first to acknowledge his role in it and I will start calling him Rah – like his players (which also bugs me).

    Is dummy-nik also below the belt? Or How about dumb-nik?

  27. Eric Says:

    I gotta agree about that “Radio” thing, its an ugly comparison to a guy who is mentally challenged.

    Those folks have enough problems without having their names used as an example of stupidity.

    I know its all in good fun, don’t mean to be the PC police or anything, but I just don’t think its right.

  28. thomas Says:

    For the record, I dont use the name Radio as an example of stupidity. I use it b/c of the physical resemblence and unusual way of communicating. They are both difficult to understand.

    I don’t think that either Radio or Rah are stupid. But I still believe the real Radio could have won 4 games with that team last year! So yea, comparing Rah to radio is offensive – to radio!

  29. Eric Says:

    I dunno Thomas, its a fine line there.

    Its kinda like your saying, “you look, act, and speak like a known retarded guy”, yet your not implying hes stupid?

    Not sure that explanation quite makes it.

    But hey, to each his own.

  30. BigMacAttack Says:

    I like all the nick names for them, just not that one. It really isn’t my place to judge though. I’ve heard player’s say Coach Rah. I hope they really pull it together so most of the negativity will subside. I was totally against Chucky’s firing and he is still my favorite Coach, but Raheem is our guy whether we like it or not. You have to admit that he really improved that defense in the end, and the guy is not afraid to fire someone or do the dirty work when it has to be done. Sorry about calling you 37, LOL.

  31. Greg Says:

    Great, now we can get rid of Vinnie to the Canadiens for 6 or 7 of their players and really start to improve the Bolts! Vinnie’s lost it, get rid of him while we can, he definitely doesn’t want to play here anymore!

  32. Steve Says:

    I gotta agree about that “Radio” thing, its an ugly comparison to a guy who is mentally challenged.

    Those folks have enough problems without having their names used as an example of stupidity.

    I know its all in good fun, don’t mean to be the PC police or anything, but I just don’t think its right.