“The Athletic” Believes Bucs Are “Pretenders”
November 15th, 2025
What could have been?
Joe has a gnawing feeling however this season shakes out, for years we will look back and wonder what could have been.
What could have been if Mike Evans stayed healthy?
What could have been if Chris Godwin hadn’t gotten his ankle destroyed last year?
What could have been if Bucky Irving hadn’t messed up his shoulder?
What could have been if the NFL didn’t have worthless preseason games and Jalen McMillan never got undercut by a piece of camp meat trying to make a splash play to get a job?
What could have been if Cody Mauch hadn’t blown out a knee?
What could have been if Luke Goedeke stayed healthy?
That’s sort of the way Mike Jones of The Athletic is looking at the Bucs. In a column studying every possible playoff team, Jones calls whether a team is a pretender or if they are a contender to hoist the Vince Lombardi Trophy in the Northern California night air in February.
Because of the Bucs injuries, Jones labeled the Bucs as a “pretender.”
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (6-3) — Pretender
Give Todd Bowles, his staff and Baker Mayfield a lot of credit. The Buccaneers haven’t been at full strength since they reported for training camp. Whether it’s the offensive line, the wide receivers, running backs and even their defensive front and secondary, the Bucs have spent the season plugging and playing. And yet, they still lead the NFC South with a 6-3 record. However, the Bucs have a rough next couple of weeks with road games against the Bills and the Rams, but have winnable games against Arizona, New Orleans, Atlanta, Carolina twice and Miami remaining. However, it’s difficult to see this team managing to overcome rampant injuries to make a Super Bowl march.
It seems Jones has overlooked the potential that many hurt Bucs could return for the playoffs.
Joe hopes Godwin can come back. But there is a reason why the Bucs are keeping Godwin’s condition a state secret on the level of possessing nuclear codes. Teams don’t generally hide good news.
And as the creator, curator and overall guru of Pro Football Talk, the great Mike Florio once wrote, “Silence invites speculation.”
The fact Bucky returned to practice last week suggests he is close to getting back on the field.
Evans could return for the playoffs. So too could Calijah Kancey.
McMillan is a wild card. The Bucs are being very cautious and over-the-top careful with McMillan. Broken bones in the neck are nothing to screw around with.
If the Bucs could get Evans, Godwin, Kancey and McMillan back, provided they can quickly get in game shape, that totally changes the team makeup..
And getting all of those guys back could turn the Bucs back into contenders again.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:07 am
Mikes wearing that dude like a backpack and still no call.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:11 am
“If the Bucs could get Evans, Godwin, Kancey and McMillan back, provided they can quickly get in game shape, that totally changes the team makeup..”
Really?
LOL!
Not gonna happen.
Our GM 5h!t the bed with Evans, Godwin, LVD and Reddick and everyone not wearing pewter colored glasses knows it.
We will be lucky to win 9 games this season.
Mark my words – 9 games…
November 15th, 2025 at 10:14 am
Is it just me or doesn’t it look like the DB is hitching a ride on Evans back before the ball arrives. No interference call just magnifies the injury. That game they held our receivers all game and the officials let them.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:14 am
In this NFL one never knows but with this coach u can bet on it.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:18 am
I agree with him. Until I see those players return and play fairly close to the level that they normally play at I can’t see the Bucs as real contenders this season. And that’s assuming they don’t lose anyone else.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:20 am
“And getting all of those guys back could turn the Bucs back into contenders again.”
And if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:32 am
Unless this season ends in the NFC Championship game or Super Bowl, I will wonder what could have been. Absolutely.
This Bucs team healthy is 7-2 right now at least and heading to a 13-4 season at least.
I still believe they can make a run if they get healthy and those guys back by the end of season. Hoping it happens for David and Evans.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:35 am
I don’t believer that the Bucs with a full staff could reach the Super Bowl, with their present coaches. The coach will never get them over the top.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:38 am
Is there an update on Kancey? I assumed a pec injury (tear?) was basically season ending. That said, I pick him and bucky/evans as my most anticipated comeback. The Bucs are pretenders in that they sure seem to be over achieving against the fate injuries have dealt. Each side of the ball needs their stars back. It rough seeing the backups ‘pretend’ to be super bowl contenders amongst starters.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:40 am
Don’t think it’s the Offense, even with all the injuries and slow starts. Right now unless the defense steps up, I don’t see the Bucs making it very far in the playoffs. They will likely be 6-5 in two weeks. I hate to say it but the Dline cant get pressure and the LBs and Secondary are running around like idiots . Maybe it’s stupid players maybe it’s a stupid DC, IDK. Tired of watching this defense getting gashed.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:47 am
They are not pretenders. Time and again they’ve shown themselves to be well below championship caliber.
Hopefully a coaching change for 2026 will bring some direction and killer instinct – like Gruden did after the underachieving Dungy years.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:49 am
The fortunes of this team rest on Mayfield being able to scramble & run again…
November 15th, 2025 at 10:49 am
Jalen isn’t coming back this year Joe. I broke my C-4 vertebrae. 6 months in a neck brace. 9 months with no physical activities. Now I went the non-surgery route which took longer but better in the long run. Bucs havnt said anything about surgery for Jalen but I get he doesn’t play this year.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:51 am
Also need Bredeson back…
November 15th, 2025 at 10:53 am
That picture that accompanies this story is telling as the DB is tackling ME over the shoulders before the ball arrives. No PI call and the cause of ME broken clavicle because he was unable to break his fall. The refereeing in the NFL stinks. DB’s get away with a lot because the refs just look the other way.
November 15th, 2025 at 10:54 am
If they do not get a healthy Godwin and Bucky back and the interior of the offensive line, there’s a strong chance it comes crumbling down. If these things happen within the next two weeks they can get it together and make a strong push to the playoffs
November 15th, 2025 at 10:57 am
What could have been if the Bucs made Liam Coen their HC!
” ” ” ” ” ” ” hired a TRUE DC guru!
As long as Bowels is HC, they are PRETENDERS!
November 15th, 2025 at 11:08 am
It is always darkest before dawn. There is one Buc who might just about be totally healthy. Yeah its Baker. In Bake we trust. If he comes back firing on all cylinders he will drag the whole team behind him by force of will. It is time. Baker knows it. Time to make his move and let it fly/ Two years now Bake has pulled them out of a mid season swoon and Bake will do it again this year only now he is going to close the deal. Go Bucs.
November 15th, 2025 at 11:10 am
Mike Jones article is bogus IMO in that ‘You are what your record says you are’. We MAY be ‘lucky’ to be 6-3 at this point, but there’s no ‘pretending’ that we’re 6-3.
Only 12 teams have won 6 games at this point. Bucs might be one of the least likely to have 6 wins, but that’s what we have.
1 – Patriots (8-2): Offense #8 … Defense #5
2 – Bills (6-3): Offense #6 … Defense #11
3 – Colts (8-2): Offense #1 … Defense #9
4 – Denver (8-2): Offense #17 … Defense #3
5 – Chargers (7-3): Offense #13 … Defense #8
6 – Eagles (7-2): Offense #12 … Defense #10
7 – Lions (6-3): Offense #2 … Defense #13
8 – Bears (6-3): Offense #7 … Defense #28
9 – Buccaneers (6-3): Offense #11 … Defense #14
10 – Seahawks (7-2): Offense #3 … Defense #6
11 – Rams (7-2): Offense #5 … Defense #2
12 – 49ers (6-4): Offense #23 … Defense #15
The ONLY team that has a Top-5 offense AND defense is the Rams. IF I were a betting man, I’d put my money on them to win the Super Bowl.
Any team with an offense or a defense ranked in the bottom half of the NFL at this point of the season PROBABLY isn’t gonna win the Super Bowl (the odds are stacked against them). The Bears (#28 defense) & the 49ers (#23 offense) are the only 2 teams meeting that criteria.
Only 4 teams have an offense AND defense that’s ranked in the Top-10: Patriots, Colts, Seahawks, Rams. Not an easy criteria to accomplish. Since 2000, the average Super Bowl winner offensive ranking was 5.31 and the average defensive ranking was 9.31 .
Since 2000, half (12) of the Super Bowl winners have had offenses & defenses that BOTH ranked in the Top-10. But interestingly 8 of those have occurred in the past 12 years. Apparently ‘balance’ on both sides of the ball is becoming more important in the NFL.
The Bucs are somewhat ‘balanced’ (#14 offense & #11 defense) but we need to keep improving to make it into the Top-10 on both. Given our somewhat easier schedule once we get past the Rams, we just MIGHT be able to do that. When we won our last Super Bowl (2020), Bucs had the #3 offense & the #8 defense. We were good; there was no ‘pretending’.
November 15th, 2025 at 11:28 am
Yeah what could have been if we had an actual DC
November 15th, 2025 at 11:40 am
Don’t get me wrong; I can tolerate a euphemism every so often. To describe Evans’ condition as a failure to “stay healthy,” seems a bit too much. He was assaulted by a DB who smashed down on his collarbone –among the body’s weaker bones– with his left arm, clearly before the arrival of the ball, knocking him out of the game and many games to come. The defender was beaten for a TD and just mauled him. Remarkably, the pass was so well thrown that it nestled in Evans’ arms, giving the impression that the defender had not interfered with the opportunity to catch the ball (yes, I am being euphemistic, but it’s the only explanation, aside from the distraction of multiple injuries, for the failure to penalize the foul). Mike didn’t fail to stay healthy, nor was the damage the result of normal, everyday use, as the disclaimers like to say. It was caused by a deliberate and reckless disregard for the rules. And no effort was made by the officials or the League to rectify it or punish the violater.
November 15th, 2025 at 11:57 am
If that defender isn’t all over Mike he makes that catch, and that game would’ve ended much much differently.
November 15th, 2025 at 12:10 pm
“It seems Jones has overlooked the potential that many hurt Bucs could return for the playoffs.” – Joe
Exactly.
Also, he’s overlooking development of players…which happens most when they actually play.
We don’t have to be perfect the entire season. We don’t have to beat all the tough teams. We just need to make the playoffs.
By the time the playoffs get here, that’s when we need to be further developed and healthy.
So Jones and say we’re pretenders all he wants. It fires up the team. We cannot help the schedule we are given. Wishing we had a tougher schedule is useless. You do the best with whet you get.
So long as you win the winnable games and compete in the tough games (and sometimes win), then you focus on team culture and development.
Success will follow.
November 15th, 2025 at 12:10 pm
Agree Texas. I think we will always be outcoached by the truly elite teams. Doesn’t matter who is on the field imho. Just don’t ever see them winning a Super Bowl with Bowles leading the charge and for that matter Grizz leading this offense.
November 15th, 2025 at 12:12 pm
Davenport…. The same staff will be back next year. Your a fool if you think otherwise. They just signed Bowles to an extension. He isn’t going anywhere whether we like it or not.
November 15th, 2025 at 12:16 pm
Defense Rules:
“Since 2000, the average Super Bowl winner offensive ranking was 5.31 and the average defensive ranking was 9.31 .”
Yep. Spot on.
What is interesting about that is it shows the “defense wins championships” no longer applies. Yes, you need some defense, but offense is the one that stands out the most.
I don’t believe you need a top 10 defense either…I think top 12-14 has a chance…though a low chance.
Jones is completely bogus on this, but that’s okay because what he thinks doesn’t matter. It’s his opinion…and around here, we’re used to seeing wrong opinions.
November 15th, 2025 at 12:20 pm
After listening to the Ronde Barber show yesterday I’m much less optimistic that Bucky will be returning anytime soon. He said he recovered from his ankle but his shoulder is not gonna be ready for contact for a while. Hopefully this season is what I remember him saying. I could be wrong but it wasn’t anytime soon. I do think Godwin will return fairly soon. At what level is TBD. I doubt we will see him at 100% this year. I’m not concerned with CG going forward he will be a great asset for the Bucs the following years.
Joe didn’t even mention much of the defensive injuries like Kancey, David Walker and JJ Roberts. Getting those last 2 back next year will be like having two extra day 2 draft picks. I can’t wait to see E. Roberts and Kancey on the D-line together. Elijah is developing into a great player and a pretty funny guy. Anyone that missed his presser this week should go check it out.
November 15th, 2025 at 12:22 pm
Texas Bucs Fan Says
“I don’t believer that the Bucs with a full staff could reach the Super Bowl, with their present coaches. The coach will never get them over the top.”
I not only think you are mistaken, but I also believe they will prove you wrong eventually.
We pretty much have a great staff. Sure, Bowles might now react the way some fans prefer. He’s very controlled in his behavior. He’s steady.
That rubs some fans the wrong way…but what cannot be denied is his record since becoming our head coach (no longer a 50% guy) and the fact that the players put it all out there for him.
So far as Grizz…he is a rookie Offensive Coordinator and is developing like the young players are. Whether he’ll become great remains to be seen. Right now, I agree he isn’t good enough…but that doesn’t mean he’s the wrong guy. It just means he has to learn from mistakes.
Much like Jason Licht learned to become a good GM after coming here as a rookie GM.
Of course, after this season, I believe there is a chance Canalas will be looking for work again, so he might come back.
November 15th, 2025 at 12:23 pm
Davenport Says
“Hopefully a coaching change for 2026 will bring some direction and killer instinct – like Gruden did after the underachieving Dungy years.”
The Bucs could loose the rest of their games this year, and Bowles will still be here.
November 15th, 2025 at 12:46 pm
Should have never gave Todd an extension. He’s not a winning coach every year we stumble. We’re in a week division. And where the fly on top of that pile.
November 15th, 2025 at 1:08 pm
Yeah, Bowles is going nowhere. They also have the whole ‘injury’ excuse for him. Next season will be crucial for him. I think the Rams win the Super Bowl, as long as Stafford stays healthy, and his receivers. I never expected him to still be playing by now, but so far so good for them. If they keep this up then Stafford is the runaway MVP. I’m liking a Colts-Rams Super Bowl right now, though wouldn’t it be sumpin to have a Darnold vs Danny Dimes Super Bowl!? Now, that would be SO INSANE. A Goff vs Stafford NFC Title Game would also be intriguing. In DETROIT… WOW. Stafford RETURNS. Damn, that place would be so off-the-wall CRAZYYYYY!!!!
November 15th, 2025 at 1:16 pm
excellent post joe and truly the story so far of 2025 season…. what worries me the most is Bakers recent turn for the worse! he has to play above average not go back to his bad days! his stats are awesome but he couldn’t get us a first down the last few weeks where we really needed it
November 15th, 2025 at 1:17 pm
Bonzai … ‘What is interesting about that is it shows the “defense wins championships” no longer applies. Yes, you need some defense, but offense is the one that stands out the most.’
Personally I think you need more than ‘some’ defense Bonzai, but how much you need probably depends a lot on how dominant your offense is. Also think that offense & defense ‘balance’ is essential. Go too heavily in 1 direction and bad things happen.
November 15th, 2025 at 1:41 pm
Marine Buc. I’m not wearing rose colored glasses. I’m settling in for a nice little weekend of football. The GM didn’t poop the bed. You say that but you have failed to convince a large share of us. You tell us to “ Mark my words- 9 wins”. That’s where you made your mistake. I wrote it down 3 times. It’s on my workbench out in the shop. It’s laying in my passenger seat of my old work truck and it’s on top of my dresser in my bedroom. Don’t worry Marine Buc. I marked it down, just like you said. Literally. And as soon as we win number 10 I’ll throw those 3 pieces of paper away. In the shltcan- where they belong.
November 15th, 2025 at 1:47 pm
We have over HALF of our starting offense OUT, and most people are calling for the coach of a 6-3 team to be fired
November 15th, 2025 at 2:08 pm
So do I, unfortunately. It’s basically the same team as last season plus E2.
November 15th, 2025 at 2:57 pm
@ Kenton
LOL!
What’s up bud.
I’m sorry – but this team is stuck in a doom loop of mediocrity…
Too much money going to old washed up unproductive players.
Don’t blame me. Look elsewhere for retribution.
Mark my words – 9 wins.
November 15th, 2025 at 3:35 pm
NFL officiating is such a goddamn joke.
November 15th, 2025 at 3:56 pm
Defense Rules makes a good argument.
And, I would point out that he list four teams meeting criteria. Of those, the Bucs have not played the Colts, have not played the Rams yet, beat the Seahawks, and went in two the final two minute warning in control to beat the Patriots with three timeouts if they had just run the ball on third and three and/or fourth and three.
The Rams game should be informative.
It was widely anticipated that the Bucs new Offensive Coordinator would be challenged by a play calling learning curve. After the Bucs fast start to the season, thinking about that went to the back burner. But, abandoning the run against Detroit was clearly a rookie blunder. And, even though it has not been as egregious as in the Detroit game, he still called passes in excessive streaks against the Patriots.
The Bucs reportedly do statistical analysis. They hopefully have the 3rd and three or less and fourth and three of less 100% failure rate when passing the ball against New England plastered on every wall, home page and screen saver in the Bucs organization.
Grizzard must have the information.
What is make or break is whether or not he can adapt his play calling in real time under game stress.
If he can’t adapt, yeah, the Bucs are pretenders and Grizzard should be demoted, fired or get an assistant for play calling next year.
If Grizzard can adapt, the Bucs may “pretend” their way all the way to another Super Bowl Championship.
As to the defense, Bowles seems to have raked the deserving parties over the coals. And, as almost all of the deserving parties have an NFL history of playing much better than they did Sunday, it is reasonable to expect them to return to form.
And, for Bowles’s part, he should know now to be damned selective when he puts Morrison in for Dean. The Bucs should be ahead and help should be schemed just like help was schemed to help the ILBs defend against McCaffrey and the way it should be schemed to help the ILBs this week covering the Buffalo RB coming across the line of scrimmage on passing routes.
November 15th, 2025 at 4:13 pm
“We will be lucky to win 9 games”. That’s what each piece of paper says. Each are dated 15 Nov 25. Then Marine Buc. Sorry but there may have been a mistake with the B and an F. Anyway, have a great weekend. I’ll be hollering at you in the next 4 or 5 weeks. I promise.
November 15th, 2025 at 4:37 pm
Finally someone who sees Todd’s team for what it is.
November 15th, 2025 at 4:54 pm
The what could have been starts with firing Bowles and promoting Coen to HC. We’re going to regret that forever, like trading Steve Young and drafting Bo Jackson.
November 15th, 2025 at 5:04 pm
Marine Buc … ‘I’m sorry – but this team is stuck in a doom loop of mediocrity. Too much money going to old washed up unproductive players.’
You’re surprising me Marine Buc. What’s with the doom & gloom? Bucs are 6-3. Could very well be 6-5 after we play the Rams as many predict. Or MAYBE we salvage 1 game & get to 7-4 with 6 games left (easier games I’m told).
Personally I’m impressed at HOW we’ve gotten 6 wins thus far. Baker had to bring us back in the LAST MINUTE of FOUR of those to actually win. Says a lot about him IMO, but also says a LOT about the TEAM around him. You & I have surely both spent a lot of time in combat, and we know that even though you may not win every battle, IF you have a TEAM around ya that doesn’t know the word ‘quit’ you’ll win far more than you lose. THAT’S what this Bucs’ team is reminding me of.
I’ve learned over the years that eventually you get to the point where you really CAN’T do ‘More with Less’. Yes we’ve lost ‘old man’ Evans, and ‘the ancient warrior’ Godwin is still struggling to make it back, but look at the YOUNGSTERS we’ve lost for games on end (and JFYI, this season we’ve logged 592 offensive snaps & 582 defensive snaps) …
o Mike Evans (32) … 177 off snaps (29.9% available)
o Chris Godwin (29) … 105 off snaps (17.7% available)
o Bucky Irving (23) … 198 off snaps (33.4% available)
o Jalen McMillan (23) … 0 off snaps (0% available)
o Tristan Wirfs (26) … 382 off snaps (64.5% available)
o Cody Mauch (26) … 138 off snaps (23.3% available)
o Luke Goedeke (26) … 139 off snaps (23.5% available)
o Ko Kieft (27) … 29 off snaps (4.9% available)
o Calijah Kancey (24) … 69 def snaps (11.9% available)
o David Walker (25) … 0 def snaps (0% available)
o Christian Izien (25) … 7 def snaps (1.2% available)
Ya Evans & Godwin’s availability is WAAAY DOWN (over usual), but they’re only 2 of about a dozen players who would’ve gotten LOTS of snaps but whose injuries have kept them from helping us. What’s hurt us mostly on offense IMO is 2 things: (1) our OLine has been in shambles much of the season; and (2) Baker has been playing hurt in the past several games. BOTH greatly impact the effectiveness of our offense. Our defense still lacks some of the high quality talent (the Suh’s, JPP’s & Shaq’s) that we had several years ago. We’ll get there, but not tonight.
November 15th, 2025 at 5:06 pm
IMHO, the Bucs can beat any team on any given day! If they get some of these play makers back that makes a win easier. But, yes I’m saying but, they have to play lights out for 60 minutes!! Not 15 or 30 minutes!! All 3 phases of the game!! Play like you demand the W!!! We just haven’t seen them doing this so far this year. A couple of the games the O rises and demands the W. A couple of the games the D rises and demands the W. A couple of the games ST rises and brings home the W! In the playoffs you need everyone demanding the W! Executing and making plays!! Can the Buc’s do this? YES!!! Will they? I don’t know!! A new season starts Sunday! The Bucs need to execute and make more plays than their opponents! Develope that killer instinct!! One game at a time starting Sunday!!
November 15th, 2025 at 7:43 pm
The Bucs signature win was vs the Seahawks, but that wasn’t the real Seahawks defense that week – they lost two pro-bowl defensive backs for the game, then lost a third DB in the first quarter. From there, just like Bowles does when there’s an injury, Seattle played a very basic soft zone defense and the Bucs ate them up. Those are facts.
At the same time, my response to that is the Bucs were also missing guys, and a lot more of them. I think Zyon missed that game, or Dean, one of the two, and Bowles because of that, the Bucs played that awful super soft zone and made Darnold look like a 1st ballot HOFer — unless Bowles finally brought some pressure late in the game, and bam, Darnold turned into a pumpkin and turned the ball over — amazing how that works. Of course the Bucs were also missing RG1, RT1, RB1, WR1, WR2, WR4, DE1, CB1 – seems like there was more, but that’s off the top of my head.
The other big win was vs the 49ers, who somehow manage to beat out the Bucs in terms of injuries.
Both wins were big wins, but from the outside, there’s just a lot of asterisks. The very poor showing vs the Eagles and Lions, and the loss to the Pats, all were on the national stage, and those are the games people have seen, where the Bucs haven’t look good. Also, there’s the simple fact that the Bucs were blown out vs the Eagles and Lions and looked awful, and Baker didn’t look good in either of them, or vs the Pats. The Bucs need a legit signature win, and that Pats game was the chance, and they got two more, vs the Bills and Rams – in particular the Rams game. But anyone that knows Bucs history knows a primetime game vs the Rams always goes very poorly for the Bucs – so the naysayers will pile up as the team almost certainly is 6-5 in a couple of weeks. But, after that things lessen up, and we might finally start really getting guys back. The Bucs just have to make the playoffs, and if they get healthy at the right time, and Baker gets on the roll, the Bucs will have a chance to do some damage.