“Dark Horse” Bet

February 5th, 2020

MVP chatter.

Fly the flags!

Once again Joe brings word from a man who traffics in football numbers. The following is not for the close-minded, former wing-T quarterbacks, wishbone fullbacks and closet Buddy Ryan types who have made up their mind Mr. Entertainment, America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston — that he should be banished to the XFL.

In an episode of “Lock it In,” seen and heard on FS1, a show about gambling, renowned Vegas football numbers guy Todd Fuhrman said he would not be opposed to laying cash that someday, Jameis could be the NFL’s MVP.

Yes, really. And Fuhrman comes at it with logic, something the Jameis haters either refuse to use or have no capacity to use.

The numbers Jameis have put up are on the level of Offensive Players of the Year, Fuhrman notes. Jameis has already proven he can do it. So, per Fuhrman, why not get good odds and lay cash on this bet? Seems reasonable to Joe.

Of course, this Clay Travis character, long-time, hardcore Jameis hater and noted Marcus Mariota slurper (ha!!!) nearly has a stroke when he hears Fuhrman say this. There is a word that springs to mind whenever Joe hears of this Travis. “Troll.”

Watch and enjoy Fuhrman’s information below.

Hat tip: @Chrisbell323.

90 Responses to ““Dark Horse” Bet”

  1. Bruce Blahak Says:

    The numbers are from a loaded offense with the best pair of wideouts in the nfl and the Arians down the field approach. Absolutely nothing to do with the fraud behind center. I’m sure the QBs out there are drooling for the chance to lead this team…

  2. SteveK Says:

    Mvp won’t ever happen with this amount of turnovers. Inefficient football is not winning nor “most valuable”.

  3. Bob in Valrico Says:

    I am not much of a gambler but 60-1 odds seems like risky business.to me.
    With Jameis, there is production and counter production and it goes without saying that the team can ill afford the latter.

  4. SteveK Says:

    If, if, if.

    Joe will mention that this is “possible”, but how likely is this to occur? 5 years is an eternity in the NFL. We’ve been putting poor play on a pedestal for far too long.

  5. lambchop Says:

    Oh, so the pro-Jameis supporters are *hoping, thinking, maybe, someday, eventually, if the stars align* that Jameis can be MVP. Man, you people are dense. We can’t even keep a lead, win close games, but we’ve got a boner for yards and TDs which still keep us home for the holidays. How many games started with a pick-6? That’s an MVP, right there. Get your team behind the 8-ball out of the gate. MVP my ***!

    Forget about MVP, just limit your season INTs to single digits and we can win. MVPs, OPY, etc. are consolation prizes for losers who don’t get that the ultimate reward is the SB win. Even with an average running game and with an intact defense from last year, we are playoff bound without all the Halloween candy Jameis gives out.

    The only thing outside of QB that is in dire need of fixing, that contributes to winning and losing, is the kicker. Let’s see what he does in year 2.

  6. OneBuc55 Says:

    Every QBs journey to greatness is slightly different…

    I do believe Jameis can be an elite QB; I still do not think he’s a finished product yet…Those who love to hate him fail to realize he has gotten better every year since he came into the league (unlike Mariota)..

    Look how much he improved on his deep ball this past season; Personally I would like to see him use his legs a little more often…Obviously he’s gonna have to work on getting these turnovers down; but some of that responsibility falls on the coaching staff too…

    I do think he can be an MVP one day, unfortunately I don’t think it’ll happen in Tampa Bay…This franchise has a habit on giving up on there QBs before they reach their full potential, so most likely that achievement will happen with another franchise…

  7. Bucsfanman Says:

    This is akin to me saying that there’s a chance that I could hit the lotto! There’s always “a chance!”
    The likelihood? I don’t know. Seems like there’s a lot of work to be done. And, I’ve said it before, if the Bucs are going to be successful, it will NOT be because Jameis is putting up numbers like he did this year. Less Jameis, and therefore, less likely to be MVP. IMO.

  8. Jeagan1999 Says:

    This is pretty simple. Turnovers lose games. Over the las 5 years, Jameis has committed more turnovers than anyone else. That’s not hate….it’s just a fact. Until and unless Winston can find a way to drastically cut down the turnovers (especially the soul crushing pick 6’s), the odds of him becoming an MVP are about the same as those of Trump and Pelosi becoming BFF’s. I just don’t see it happening. Time to draft a new QB who can protect the ball better.

  9. SteveK Says:

    It’s insulting to the team and fans by continuing to excuse turnovers. We will never win anything if we can’t take care of the ball. Thus far, five years, we’ve won nada. One season we were 9-7.

    If we bring Jameis back and the same crap happens: turnovers, losses, excuses, then what? A new year and a new excuse. Shameful.

  10. Bucsfanman Says:

    Oh, and all of that above is even IF he’s still here! Because there’s a “CHANCE” he won’t.

  11. SteveK Says:

    5 long, playoffless years!

    That’s enough time to judge the play of a former #1 overall pick and decide we need a new QB. Price vs. production.

    How can some fans honestly say that the Bucs didn’t “spend enough time” w Jameis. Anywhere else, and there wouldn’t be this much patience.

  12. Buczilla Says:

    Thanks, I needed a laugh this morning and I’m still giggling like a dumba$$ while I type this. Geez that is absurd given want Jameis has shown so far. Impossible? Nope, but he needs to cut down on his buffoonery in a big way to even become competent. I hope he does it (if the majority of his teammates say he is a good guy, that’s good enough for me), but there is no way in hell I’m taking that bet!

  13. Ndog Says:

    You’re right SteveK elsewhere there would not be nearly this much patience waiting on a competent defense, competent kicker or competent running game. Yet here we are with Clueless fans like yourself ripping the only part of the team that does anything positive. I mean really do you even here yourself before you write/speak?

  14. SteveK Says:

    “The following is not for the close-minded, former wing-T quarterbacks, wishbone fullbacks and closet Buddy Ryan types who have made up their mind Mr. Entertainment, America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston — that he should be banished to the XFL.”

    One’s mind only needs to open up a fraction of what you are asking to envision success for this team with a new QB.

    Jameis could be MVP, and it’s much more likely a new QB finds more success: wins, turnover margin.

    Jameis is too sloppy with the ball and it would be another playoffless year if we stick with the status woe.

  15. lambchop Says:

    I don’t think any of the *haters* doubt Winston’s talent. But, he leaves his brain behind a LOT in tough situations. When we’re playing catch up, he’s relentlessly trying to force a turkey down a throat.

    The dude spontaneously, no regularly, combusts in front of everyone’s eyes. He is who we know he is. You don’t need Vegas to gamble. Just watch a Jameis led Bucs game and sit on the edge of your seat. We gamble every dang Sunday.

    Winston is seriously a double agent. Always playing for a team, not necessarily his own team.

  16. lambchop Says:


    “I mean really do you even here yourself before you write/speak?”

    Yes, apparently you here yourself before you write/speak.

    Your act is so old bro, who are you to call anyone out? Game day when Jameis is throwing picks left, right, and center, even you get exhausted defending him….UNTIL an idiot comes and blames someone else for the QBs miscues. Then you bend right back down and take it all in.

  17. SteveK Says:


    You’re a treasure. I was going back through archives (beginning of 2018) and you and Buc1987 were/are very defensive of Jameis all the way. Congratulations, but it’s not likely.

    You are clueless. Think about it. Jameis still can’t stop turning it over and when he is let walk I will cheer for the new QB. If we keep Jameis I will root for him and I will be ever so honest with my disdain for turnovers of/when he loses/turns it over/makes excuses.

    Why couldn’t another QB succeed more: win more and turn it over less?

    Points and yards are fool’s gold when it comes at the price of more turnovers than touchdowns.

    Your “horrible” D was 5th in takeaways and your boy Jameis was #1 in giveaways. Fix the problem. Get a new QB who can take care of the damn all.

    Let’s go NDog! I am convinced to show you the light. Nothing but love for you, buddy, and if one of us is “clueless” we all know who that is. 😉

  18. Morgus the Magnificent Says:

    Joe, don’t get all excited. Fuhrman is saying Winston is a long shot to win. And that is IF he’s the QB. (And IF he cuts his turnovers by half). Dark horse indeed. Save your money.

  19. SteveK Says:


    “I know you are but what am I?”

    “Takes one to know one”.


  20. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Jameis has gotten better on the deep ball,no doubt.But I believe this extra focus
    has affected the all important short game to extend drives. No better example than the end zone view of Jameis INT in the Giants game. How do You miss a big target like Evans streaking across the middle ,wide open from hashmark to hashmark for a sure first down at the Giants 30 yard line. When Jameis finally gets off the pass is the ball sails high and well behind Evans .

  21. gotbbucs Says:

    Are we in it for stats or wins? 400 yards, 3 TD’s, and 3 INT’s don’t feel good in a loss. Ask Rams fans how awesome it was to see Goff throw for 500 against the Bucs in a loss that probably kept them out of the playoffs.

  22. onetrickpony Says:

    holy cr@p, what a frackin picture of Jameis !

  23. lambchop Says:

    It’s funny. When Jameis supporters say, get a running game, limit Jameis’s throws, you know they secretly cry themselves to sleep watching him play and implode. It doesn’t matter. If we’re behind in a game, even Emmitt Smith in his prime, can’t stop Mr. Implosion from self-destruction. The whole league knows Jameis’s kryptonite is throwing the ball when he’s down. Load the box and make him win it by throwing. The Vegas odds on him throwing a pick is far greater than throwing for a TD in crunch time.

    I have never heard of an MVP QB having to have his pitch count limited. You think Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Lamar Jackson, Pat Mahomes are waiting for their running games to bail them out?

    LOL. I rest my case.

  24. Bob in Valrico Says:

    NDog will blame it on the kicker but Jameis could have iced this game in the fourth quarter if he had taken what the defense gave him and I would bet that
    was the called play.

  25. Don_RyJo(e) Says:

    I WAS very much in the Ditch-Jaboo club at the conclusion of the season, but the more I’ve read and heard from football types who have forgotten more about football than I’ll never know – all saying that Jameis could/should thrive in a second season under Arians – the more I’ve come around to change my position and join the Throw-The-Dice-On-One-More-Season club.

  26. lambchop Says:


    At what price? There is a point of diminishing returns. I think we’ve crossed that if he is demanding more than the Bucs are willing to pay him. He has to accept an incentive-laden contract.

    If it weren’t for the fact that we have so many deserving players hitting FA, I would in a heart beat support paying Jameis and bringing him back for 1 more season.

    Even if you’re an ex-player, nobody knows which Jameis is going to show up any given Sunday. That’s the conundrum. If it’s 30 INTs, I’ll take a rookie any day. If it’s 30 TDs, I’d still take a rookie because 30 TDs didn’t pull us into the playoffs. His #1 problem is INTs, which has been a huge focus from coaches, and he still has not limited his INTs.

    That’s a red flag. We are wasting away the talent at other positions the longer we do nothing to improve competition at the QB position.

  27. ATrain Says:


    Aka: Jamies Winston

    Haha no one love Jamies this much but Jamies

    What did you say a crap Defense. With TWO EDGE RUSHERS OVER 10 sacks


    Go watch Chess you can Buy a Clue even with your Walmart gift card

  28. I Bleed Pewter Says:

    “something the Jameis haters either refuse to use or have no capacity to use.”

    I don’t get how you get off insulting 1/2 your readers. More than 50% voted to move on from Jameis, and you insult their intelligence. Not to mention it’s the slow season too.
    A) Not everyone gets Joe’s sense of humor.
    B) Joe never writes with any concern for readers’ feelings related to the Bucs. Simply stated, Joe would go insane operating like that. No matter what Joe writes, there’s someone there to point a finger and call Joe an A-hole. You wouldn’t want to come here if Joe was like other Bucs writers who pander and placate so often they have no identity.–Joe
    C) There is no such thing as the slow season.

  29. lambchop Says:

    INTs have more impact than TDs. INTs have the double whammy effect. You don’t score and you give the other team extra opportunities to score.

    So, which carries more weight? 30 TDs or 30 INTs? You can’t look at one stat without looking at the other.

  30. Don_RyJo(e) Says:

    @lambchop I’m not touching contract specifics and incentives and guarantees and all that. I’ll leave that for the number crunchers (I took a managerial economics course en route to my bachelors degree…I did not find it enjoyable). I’m with you in principle though… If Jameis wants elite-QB-money, I don’t think he’s earned that. If the Bucs decide to walk away, I’ll support that decision. As for interceptions, like I said before, I’m willing to see if a second season under Arians improves the ratio. Even better, Licht goes out and gets an average-to-above-average running back and gives the Bucs a balanced offense so each game isn’t overwhelmingly on Jameis. I think that would help. Still – I’ve come around to the “lets see what happens in year 2 of BA” crowd.

  31. Pewter Power Says:

    Sure lots of people have money to throw away. You can’t be the nfl mvp unless you are winning and you ain’t winning throwing the type of interceptions and number on interceptions he throws.

    Last year he was benched for bad quarterback play, he’s the Geraldine of quarterbacks all the production, none of the impact except he’s losing games because he touches the ball every play

  32. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    Has an MVP ever lead the league in turnovers? Ha ha ha hA

    These “experts” and analyst are just bored and creating content

  33. Sharthappens Says:

    I agree. Defensive MVP the way he turns the ball over.

  34. Steven007 Says:

    The numbers actually don’t support it at all because those numbers include 30 interceptions. Because: math. It’s really not that hard.

  35. Defense Rules Says:

    No question in my mind that Jameis benefits because of the “loaded offense with the best pair of wideouts in the nfl and the Arians down the field approach” as Bruce Blahak said. However, even with that you don’t put up 5000 yards by being an ‘average QB’. The Good Jameis can be VERY GOOD. Unfortunately the Bad Jameis can be VERY VERY BAD as we saw in 2019.

    The question that none of us have an answer to is ‘Were his 30 INTs last year, to include 7 Pick-6s, an anomaly?’ Actually more importantly, ‘Should we expect the same thing in 2020 IF he stays in Tampa Bay?’ People forget that Jameis attempted 673 passes last season (including sacks) … no QB in the NFL attempted more. That’s an absurd number. It tells me that our run-pass ratio was WAY out of BALANCE. Some of that was because our run game was marginally effective, but at least some was because game situations often necessitated passing over running (we were behind or whatever).

    Play-calling played a huge role in Jameis’ results last year I’m convinced. I’m pretty sure that play-design also played a role, because far too many plays were ‘long-developing’. How much though is anybody’s guess. Will it change this year regardless of who’s our QB? I keep telling myself you can’t JUST look at the results. You have to also look at how you got there. With the amount of information that available to today’s DCs, there’s no doubt IMO that every NFL team knows Jameis’ strengths & weaknesses. ‘Fixing Jameis’ is no small task as a consequence.

  36. James Walker Says:

    Fix the running game and the QB position fixes itself.

  37. BrianBucs Says:


  38. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    James Walker

    Jameis had his fewest attempts of the season in week 17 but still turned it over twice a better running game won’t make him more acccurate or make better decisions

  39. 813bucboi Says:


    if you at when JW plays a full 16games, his INT total goes up every year…..2015-15, 2016-18, 2019-30…..

    i think play calling is another excuse….Jameis threw 19 of his 30 interceptions when he was not under pressure…..

    if he has time in the pocket, along with elite targets, long developing plays shouldnt matter….at that point it comes down to accuracy, timing and decision making….is he making the right decision fast enough?….

    i agree it’ll be no easy/small task because DC’s have a simple game plan….shut down the run at all cost and force JW to throw early and often while mixing it up coverage wise….play man…play zone….but stuff the run at all cost…..

    run game wont matter until JW can show the league he’s not a TO machine, thats how DCs will continue to play us…..

    GO BUCS!!!!!!

  40. 813bucboi Says:


    i agree…..

    DCs will continue to plan on stuffing the run until JW displays better/faster decision making and proves he’s accurate….

    as Bradshaw explained. “He at times, when he really got in trouble, was when he stayed with a receiver [in his progressions] too long. And then he would come off [the receiver in his progression] late and he didn’t see the coverage underneath and he would just throw it right to somebody else.

    “He’s a smart kid but you have to go through those progressions [starts snapping his fingers] boom, boom, boom, boom.

    making quicker/better decisions along with being more accurate will keep defenses honest…..which will improve the run game…..

    folks have it backwards…..JW will improve the run game not the other way around….

    GO BUCS!!!!!!

  41. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Bruce Blahak Says
    “The numbers are from a loaded offense with the best pair of wideouts in the nfl and the Arians down the field approach. Absolutely nothing to do with the fraud behind center.”

    I beg to differ. Do you think RG4 would do better? Mike Glennon? How about Josh McCown? Colt McCoy? Geno Smith?

    If Winston has nothing to do with it, then we could plug ANY crappy QB in and have the same success.


    Then you are wrong.

  42. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    813bucboi Says:
    “if you at when JW plays a full 16games, his INT total goes up every year…..2015-15, 2016-18, 2019-30…..”

    As do his sacks. Which means the offensive line has steadily gotten worse at protecting him.

  43. Sleepy903 Says:

    Clearly people cant even comprehend the video. The dude clearly said if he cuts down his INT’s

    Idiot buc fans – “It’ll never happen with this many INT’s.” “He throws to many INT’s.” But, but the INT’s”

    Duh dummies he acknowledge that when he gave his reasoning behind betting on him.

  44. Sleepy903 Says:

    Loyaltotheend Section 312 – Go back and watch the film. Im sure you just looked at the stats.

    The first half of the last game Jameis was dealing and Tampa went up. BL took the ball out of JW hands to establish the run which Tampa did well between the 20’s. The play calling wasn’t balanced at all and took Winston out of any type of rhythm. The run/kicking game could finish the game which allowed Atlanta to come back. Then BL wanted Winston to go out and win the game and as a result it was a pick 6.

    Granted the INT shouldn’t have happened but one thing I’ve learned in my years of coaching is to continue with the game plan keeping everybody involved. Maybe they didn’t want to risk getting Winston injured so they leaned on the running game but I think you stay balanced in the second half to keep Winston in a rhythm.

  45. WillieG Says:

    Once again, Panty Waisted Joe insults those of us who have made a decision on Jameis Winston after 5 years of being open minded. We “closed minded” types gave JW 5 years to prove himself, but that’s not good enough for Panty Waisted Joe. Nope, if we don’t get a hard on for 5,000 yards, we are closed minded.

    And when you call Panty Waisted Joe out on his insults, he will delete your comments, even when you’re being relatively polite. And that is why he is Panty Waisted Joe. I can’t believe these guys have access to the Bucs. I would not allow a couple of bloggers access to my team if I owned one. Professional writers aren’t petty, and they don’t regularly insult their readers.

  46. Hodad Says:

    Joe, why do you stoke the flames of dissent by calling fans who want a change at QB Jameis haters? I wanted the Bucs to draft Jameis. I thought it was the right move to pick up his 5th year option. Now after five turnover filled years, with no post season play, because I’d like to see the Bucs go a different direction, I’m a hater? Stop with the labels, and name calling. You’re not the president of the U.S., stop sounding like him. Because my view of Winston isn’t yours, doesn’t make me a hater. There’s enough division in this country, and web site, don’t add to it with insults.

  47. Steven007 Says:

    813, interesting taken I think there’s some truth to that. 8 guys in the box nearly every play. We need to be more methodical in the pass game with concepts that don’t take as long to develop. Our o-line is average which should be good enough and generally is unless there’s an extra defender there like they’re typically is. Are BA / BL willing to change a few things? Time will tell.

  48. Anonymous Says:

    One Joe has completely lost his mind, guess if winston plays somewhere else, say the chargers will he become Joe chargers fan?

  49. 813bucboi Says:


    not true regarding the o-line….

    again, Jameis threw 19 of his 30 interceptions when he was not under pressure…..thats not on the o-line…..

    o-line gives him enough time but he holds on to the ball too long….the average is about 2.5 seconds….the past 3years JW has been at the bottom of the NFL when it comes to “Time to Throw” at 2.88-2016 2.77 (2017)
    2.80 (2018) and about the same in 2019…..

    Bucs quarterbacks dropped back to pass 677 times (630 pass attempts and 47 sacks)….that aint bad…..

    JW caused many of his sacks by holding onto the ball toolong….

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  50. MadMax Says:

    Put him somewhere w/o these offensive weapons and scheme and he’ll be average at best.

  51. Ship Thief Says:

    I’m with you!

    I’m not a JW hater.
    Or a PB hater.
    Or a DD hater.

    How could I be?
    I have been rooting for them since they joined the Bucs!

    I am just ready for another chapter.

    I am ready to turn the page and see what comes next.

  52. Dapostman Says:

    Per Next Gen Stats: Minimum 128 pass attempts

    Average Intended Air Yards 2019:

    #1 Stafford 10.7
    #2 Winston 10.5
    #3 Tannehill 9.6
    #39 Bridgewater 6.2

    Average Completed Air Yards 2019:

    #1 Stafford 8.3
    #2 Winston 8.2
    #3 Prescott 7.6
    #37 Bridgewater 4.6

    Time to Throw 2019:

    #1 Cousins 3.01
    #2 Brissett 2.93
    #24T Winston 2.77
    #39 Dalton 2.51

    Winston has the 2nd longest ball in air stats + 2nd in completed air yards yet is 24th out of 39 qualifiers in T2T.

    It’s a false narrative to say Winston holds the ball too long.

  53. SteveK Says:

    Cut bait. No need waiting a 6th year for what’s. It happening.

    A lot of great posts on here. The turnovers are unbearable.

  54. SteveK Says:

    2.77 seconds to throw- 24th means 23 quicker processors.

    46 sacks

    4.8% INT rate

    What am I missing? I just don’t see a QB worth the investment of QB market money nor a 6th year to prove it. Give a new QB a year or two and move on. Insanity is forcing this crap on fans.

  55. Troy Says:

    Comical. I will say this again – Good teams aren’t scared to cut from QBs they know can’t win. KC – Smith out, Mahomes in
    BAL – Flacco out, Jackson in
    Ten – Mariota out, Tannehill in
    Ari – Rozen out, Murray in

    You cannot be scared to move on from FAILURE. And spare me the talk about another chance.

  56. Aaron Says:

    Some people would say that he holds the ball to long because his receivers don’t get separation. Either way he needs to make quicker/ better decisions.

    His lack of understanding in-game situational football kills me…3rd and 12 from your 10yr line in the 1st quarter…punting is your friend. 3rd and 10 from the +30yrd line early in the game. Let’s not lose the FG attempt. (not his fault if the kicker misses)

    Another thing concerning about JW – I don’t think he audibles enough…as an example – I think it was the london game against the Panthers…it was 3rd and 1. Luke Kuechly is lined up in the right gap (our left). I remember saying out loud don’t run to the left…1. we were out numbered 2. why run at one of the best LBs in the game. Nope we run right at him and lose a yard…

    I’ll leave the QB decision to BA –

  57. D-Rome Says:

    I’ll bet anyone $100, right now, that Jameis will never be an NFL MVP.

  58. Posey99 Says:

    Key word “a long shot”

  59. TSmitty3000 Says:

    For the easily triggered people, listen to what Fuhrman said. He’s talking about a choice you could make money on. A $20 bet on 60-1 is not a bad gamble. Part of winning the MVP is the story. No one saw this coming from Lamar Jackson and he had a a great story. There is no money to be made betting on Mahomes or Jackson. From a pure gambling perspective, Winston at 60-1 is not a bad gamble. I’m not saying Jameis will win MVP, but it isn’t a bad bet to throw 10 or 20 bucks on.

  60. I’m a Tandyman used to be Bucs Fan Says:

    Can’t believe the Bucs Organization is even considering resigning him!! 5 years of the same stuff, same records and same bad publicity would make me just for possibly different results would be enough for me to go a different direction with hopefully different results!! Enough is enough for me!! Just saying! I may be wrong but I may not!!!

  61. Craig Says:

    At the end of the day, Jameis threw 33 touchdowns and 30 interceptions.

    A plus 3 in that ration usually means the Bucs only had a chance at three games.

    They were damned lucky to have gone 7-9. It just proves that they had an easy schedule because of the previous 5-11 season.

    That won’t happen next year.

    Tag him if you can’t live without him, but draft a QB and have open competition next season.

    It isn’t that I hate the guy, I just don’t have any faith of him getting better. As the first witness I will call the last two games of the season past. Major backslide.

  62. Kansas95Buc Says:

    Joe writes:
    “Of course, this Clay Travis character, long-time, hardcore Jameis hater and noted Marcus Mariota slurper…” LMAO. @Joe, screw the haters, I personally hate reading dry articles. You never fail to keep it interesting

  63. Crabby Fan Says:

    I can imagine JW becoming an MVP with the bucs…

    only if he takes a second string approach behind a vet that can help him become a much better game manager. Maybe a Brady type. I know, I’m just fantasizing.

    Another situation for JW would be to learn from another well established QB with another team but as a backup in learning mode.

    Quite a few posters keep referring to losing such great QBs to other teams but i will remind all how Steve Young got there. Years under another MVP in Montana with San Fran. IMO this would not have taken place in Tampa no matter how much we wanted it.

    JW was put in a tough spot with no mentor worth while starting in front of him. He was supposed to be our superman and turn this franchis around but the pieces were never in place to help him achieve it.

    Should we as Bucs fans expect JW to exorcise his turnover prone issues in a second prove it year under BA?

    I would really enjoy to see that take place but what are the odds that he’s just going to shed off all of his horrible play making decisions?

    Going to be a very interesting off-season in Bucs land ☺

  64. MTM Says:

    Apparently a lot people on Winstons payroll are posting. The dude sucks. Move on!!

  65. stpetebucsfan Says:

    Easy solution…draft an honest QB prospect..hopefully second round..unless someone thinks they see the next Russell Wilson.

    The new kid in town will garner massive press coverage. JW will…and SHOULD see the future lurking over his shoulder. He needs to know and FEEL..”I will tolerate you until I can replace you” rule.

    If JW finally puts it all together…if his coaches and if HE recognize his limitations as well as his strengths…then he’ll make himself irreplaceable and we’ll have a “quality” backup QB a few more years on a rookie contract.

  66. T REX Says:


  67. Dapostman Says:

    @SteveK, quicker processors? Dude Cousins had 3 seconds to throw so he’s a slower processor than Winston. Time to throw correlates to offense line play plus routes your skill players run. Hence air yards. That’s why Bridgewater is near the bottom in air yards.

    I get you are trying to spin everything against Winston and yes TO’s are a major issue but as Mr Myagi once said, “not everything is as it seems.”

  68. donuts Says:

    First, this sounds more like agent chatter being pushed by the media. Second, let me get this right….he is going to go from one-time Pro Bowl alternate (2016) to MVP of the entire NFL? Thank you for the laugh. Losers don’t win MVP ever! He cant even make the Pro Bowl anymore and wont for the foreseeable future considering Watson and league MVP Jackson are young.

    What a bunch of nonsense.

  69. Defense Rules Says:

    @813bucboi … “i think play calling is another excuse”. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one bucboi. Probably an oversimplification on my part, but I think the different aspects that an OC gets involved in are (1) play design; (2) game-planning; and (3) play-calling (I’d include ‘making appropriate in-game adjustments’ under the latter).

    Byron Leftwich is a new OC for all practical purposes. Surely he’s under BA’s ‘tutelage’ but BA has shown a propensity to stay ‘hands-off’ for the most part. I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to come to the conclusion that BL’s inexperience in all 3 aspects PROBABLY had an impact on Jameis’ numbers last year. When a QB averages 15 INTs a year in a ‘Bombs Away’ offense like Koetter used, and then in his 5th year in a similar offense throws 30 INTs, something’s not right. Jameis put up a lot more yardage, and even a more TDs, but at a prohibitive cost.

    I think that Bradshaw was correct when he talked about Jameis needing to speed up his progressions. Obviously ‘making better decisions’ is implied in that. Jameis ‘progressions speed’ was obviously acceptable enough under Koetter to keep his INTs down to 15 per year … not great but not gross either. Now all of a sudden under BL his ‘progression speed’ is too slow and results in double the INTs? PERHAPS it’s the demands of the scheme that’ve changed. And PERHAPS Jameis couldn’t adequately adjust … in SOME game situations. Thus Bad Jameis was magnified.

    Oftentimes I’ve found in life that’s there’s more to the story than meets the eye. In this case, I’m confident that BA & his staff are turning over every rock to figure it out and plot a path forward. Of course, it could all be moot IF Jameis insists that he’s a $30 mil QB. That’s just one of the variables in this decision process that we can’t control, UNLESS we use the tag. And even then, Jameis could refuse it & sit out (can’t see that happening BTW). As Oliver Hardy used to say to San Laurel … “Here’s another fine mess you’ve gotten us into”.

  70. Tye Says:

    ‘that he should be banished to the XFL.’

    Just NOT to the Vipers!

  71. 813bucboi Says:


    well, i guess we can agree to disagree….

    imo, his INTs went up due to his progressions or lack there of as bradshaw stated…..

    somethings not right for sure, but placing the blame on the person who orchestrated one of the top scoring offense is ridiculous…..i’d rather hold the person pulling the trigger accountable for not executing plays in his 5th year as a starter…..

    but it is what it is…..

    GO BUCS!!!!!!

  72. SteveK Says:


    Exactly! The person pulling the trigger. Helluva post.

  73. Defense Rules Says:

    813bucboi … Believe me, I don’t give Jameis a ‘pass’ on his play execution. But sometimes WHAT you’re being asked to execute isn’t necessarily the best thing in that situation. Don’t misunderstand, Jameis MAY be 100% responsible. Or he MAY be 75% responsible or whatever. Things aren’t always as they seem … but SOMETIMES they’re EXACTLY what they appear to be. BA will figure it out I’m convinced.

  74. Wesley Says:

    That’s some funny sh*t Joe.

  75. Bob in Valrico Says:

    There have some allusions to Wr’s running the wrong routes. It also been stated
    WR’s receivers have options at the end of the route. So my Question is where is rhe receiver going and are both receiver and QB on the same page.
    The other thing about the processing, Jameis ‘s hero complex keeps him locked on to the deep route too long.This is my barber’s take and I couldn’t agree more.
    I believe that was his problem with the INT in the Giants game. How does a Qb have 100% QB rating in the second quarter and fall off to 66% in the fourth quarter?

  76. Dapostman Says:

    Bucs 3rd in scoring = credit to Leftwich

    Bucs 1st in TO’s = blame Winston

    Something isn’t quite right.

  77. Stanglassman Says:

    Dapostman- Thanks for the stats. Good points.

    DRome- If you’re giving the 60-1 odds I in for as much as you want.

    People acting like a guy who leads the lead in passing yards and 2nd in TDs isn’t capable of winning the league MVP are kidding themselves.

  78. LaMarcus Says:

    Imma lay a 100 bill on that. Jw for MVP. He is already a 5000 yard passer. What else can he achieve? Can he be a first to win MVP in a Bucs uni? I can believe it

  79. MDFree Says:

    Agreed. I envision a 39 td 16int 4500 yd type season for Jameis’s second season in Bruce Arians offense. If we can find a run game next year with the secondary continuing to improve and resigning our d line fa’s, watch out. 13-3 with a first round bye.

  80. Bird Says:

    “Fly the flags”

    No surprise who wrote this one . And Its just so strange…really strange.

    The mvp part is hilarious though. Thanks for the laughs
    Yah. He is sooooooooooooo close.
    Pretty sure mvps need to wiN a playoff game 1st
    Or better yet play in a playoff game (after 5 years)
    One 9-7 season Doesn’t get an MVP
    Td to TO ration less then 1 to 1 . …not gonna do it.
    Leading the league in turnovers since you arrived in league. Uhhhhmmmm. 😂

    Man…I need some of that garnett and gold bud you guys are smoking
    I want to hallucinate.

  81. SteveK Says:


    The INTs were only a problem at home. 24/30 in 8 home games, 19/30 in 7 games at RayJay.

    The Bucs defense was fifth in takeaways with 28, but -13 in turnover margin.

    Could it be that the offense is prolific, but the QB is inconsistent and outright goes “tropic thunder” to quote Chris Simms?

    I don’t buy for a second that Leftwich is the culprit. How come Jameis could protect the ball better on the road last year than at home?

    I understand some reason for hope bc of the yards and points, but when you consider the COST to obtain said yards and points (turnovers) then it’s in effort football and ultimately fool’s gold.

    3rd in ppg with 28.5, opponents averaged 7.5ppg off Jameis miscues. That’s net 21 ppg. That looks more like a 7-9 team’s ppg, or at least an accurate depiction of the reality and impact of turnovers.

    I don’t think you are, but some FSU/Jameis/Buc fans are #TurnoverBlind

  82. Dapostman Says:


    The point is Leftwich and Winston are joined at the hip. You can not credit one and blame the other. They are both to be applauded especially in the offensive red zone and they are both to be blamed especially inside their own 25 yard line.

  83. SteveK Says:


    I think the majority of the blame is on the execution of the play, holding read too long, not hitting check downs, and missing LBs underneath.

    The truth is it isn’t probably somewhere in between. I just don’t believe Jameis and a $30 million price tag are close to the answer based on five years and s helluva contract year: both good and lots of terrible.

  84. SteveK Says:

    It’s probably somewhere. Sorry, postman, not isnt*

  85. Bucs 14 Says:

    Joe, you have now a master of the Jaymiss Fanboy Kung Fu. Your technique is unmatched

  86. Defense Rules Says:

    Bob in Valrico … Jameis being ‘locked on to the deep route too long’ is a definite possibility IMO (kudos to your barber). I guess it could be waiting for the route to mature, or it might be his alleged vision issues (I’m kidding; surely the Bucs would’ve ‘fixed’ that by now).

    The Giants game and the Seahawks game and the 2nd Falcons game are 3 games that really torqued me. In all 3 games we had the lead at halftime and scored a TOTAL of 16 points in the 2nd half (and 13 of those 16 points came in the 2nd half of the Seahawks game). The other teams adjusted, but we didn’t. Go back & reconstruct those 2nd half performances and our offense was abysmal (our defense wasn’t exactly sterling either). Heck neither was our S/Ts. Three possible wins that slipped right through our fingers. And those 3 were TEAM FAILURES.

  87. ATrain Says:

    I keep hearing if the Bucs have a run game then Jamies will be awesome

    However, The Bucs run game was better this year than last year and He was worse???

    Keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome “Insanity “

    By the Way our kicking was better this year too

  88. WestChap Says:

    After choking at the headline I watched the video… actually a great view but not because of the betting “advice” instead because the other 3 panelists almost fall out of their chairs and can’t stop ridiculing. Kind of funny.

    As for JW being MVP “some day”… ok, maybe. And, “some day” we’ll be living on Mars… oh, wait a minute, that might actually happen. Don’t bet much JW’s MVP even if odds get to 1,000:1. Lol.

  89. Losing hope Says:

    As usual Joe sounds like a bafoon. Hey Joe u might’ve fooled urself into thinking jaymiss is something he’s not but not the fans. Read ur own poll. THE MAJORITY OF US WANT HIM GONE!! LIKE YESTERDAY!! U can shove those empty stats . He ain’t it! Deal with it

  90. D1 Says:

    Lots and lots of finger pointing !

    Which at the end of the day, no matter how well you support your opinion, there’s two opposing thoughts on winston. No one is altering their opinion based on stats or imaginary game outcomes.

    Why not approach the subject differently and avoid the now needless and pointless “Winston is…………..or Winston needs……….or we would have been 16-0 if not for xyz. and e” debates.

    Granted, all Buc fans have an unusually high threshold for injuries sustained by multiple and repeated self induced and team induced head banging. So perhaps that’s why we see this insane behavior played out across the great jbf boards day after day after day with no resolve. But Gentlemen, it’s not like your heroic individual efforts are substantially enough to overcome anyone who falls into whatever camp is opposite of your own. The sides are what they are….SURPRISE!

    Why not just for fun, approach the topic differently. Tomorrow, resume the hang banging addiction like a pack of crack addicts. Like usual!

    A possible different approach maybe start with a question instead of an answer.

    if you were the Bucs GM, what would you do and more importantly, where would you start, what questions would you want answered and from whom?