Turnovers By Pressure

January 5th, 2020


If this doesn’t tell the tale of what a dominant edge rusher this guy is, Joe doesn’t know what will.

Joe is infatuated with Jacksonville defensive end Yannick Ngakoue, projected to be a free agent. And from the data NextGen stats has on the guy, it really sheds a light on what a gamewrecker Ngakoue is.

Ngakoue’s numbers suggest he’s a good, not great, edge rusher. But NextGen stats, which collects from data from sensors embedded on players’ equipment, show Ngakoue is an absolute force.

Again, per NextGen Stats, since Ngakoue was a third-round pick in 2016, only four players have produced more turnovers as a result of quarterback pressures.

And for three of those names, you wouldn’t laugh out loud if Ira Kaufman told you they were future Hall of Famers.

Joe is a huge believer in quarterback pressure. And Joe also believes a team cannot have enough pass rushers.

How big of a zealot is Joe of Ngakoue? If it came down to keeping Bucs free agent Jason Pierre-Paul or grabbing Ngakoue, Joe would go after Ngakoue.

That’s no knock on JPP. That’s just how valuable Joe thinks Ngakoue is.

112 Responses to “Turnovers By Pressure”

  1. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Yes…..and how about Dee Ford also…..

    We have 2 high-priced edge rushers already….can’t afford 3….unless JPP is uncooperative and we replace him with this guy….but that really isn’t how Licht works….we should know that by now…..he tries to keep our guys….

  2. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    Another way too long off season of Clueless Joe pining for expensive pass rusher

  3. stpetebucsfan Says:

    He’s obviously a talented player. But if JPP tells me he has five more years in the tank and loves playing with Shaq…the bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

    The problem is that stats in isolation don’t tell the entire story. Football is a TEAM* sport. Pieces interlock….sometimes better than others. Some “stars” need support. Remember Alvin Harper…came to us to be a #1 instead of staying behind Michael Irvin in Dallas. What bust. Harper NEEDED Irvin to be effective. This makes Godwin’s performance even more impressive after ME went down and Perriman was playing out of his mind those final two games with nobody else to take up the coverage after BOTH ME and Godwin went down.

    Remember Shaq’s great start…the league figured him out and began to neutralize him…JPP returns and voila Shaq is magically once again a sack master. Simple coincidence? Very Doubtful.

    People here do not seem to appreciate Suh and sometimes Vea because they simply look for the INDIVIDUAL who gets the sacks. These two not only anchored the best run defense…they disrupted and made it possible for the Shaqs…JPPs…Nassibs and others to get their sacks.

    I do not want to spend elephant dollars adding to the D other than the major $$$ required to sign this entire D. If it means no 27 million for JW…fine.

    Can we get any objectivity here? Which improved most….our D or our QB?
    After you finish laughing…compare them to the leagues historic first 30-30 man…7 pick sixes…his most ever…JW’s int % SHOT UP from an unacceptable 3.5% to a whopping 4.8%! That’s hardly improvement.

    If money becomes the issue…JW should be first cap casualty…meaning if he’d take a prove it deal at perhaps 15 mil or less fine for a one year trial.

    Otherwise can someone tell me where people get raises after a totally abysmal year that was actually worse than the prior four.

  4. Lavonte 1of1 Says:

    I think Ngakoue is more a product of his environment. There’s no guarantee that he could step in for the Bucs and play the same in a different scheme with different players surrounding him. JPP is a known commodity and has proven his ability in this defense. …and JPP is a vocal leader as well.

  5. stravenite Says:

    A follower – we need the cash to resign our best players and a replacement FA Vet QB to coach draft pick.

  6. Killian Says:

    Why not just keep JPP and Barrett? Also, why wouldn’t we go after Brady this offseason? Think about this offense if we signed Brady (who is willing to do team friendly deals) and added to O-line in the draft.

  7. tmaxcon Says:

    How about a post about vh3bust being only 4 playoff wins away from the laughable underachieving legends bucfans cant let go of….

  8. adam from ny Says:

    ngakoue is like a plan B…

    focus on plan A…

    if it falls thru, hope plan B is still an option…

    if not…fugg ’em

  9. Rojas Says:

    What happen to Xavier Rhodes.. dude is terrible now.

  10. Anonymous Says:

    Like said previously he may be a plan B option but the priority right now is to keep the same D-line we had especially Barrett and JPP as they were pretty dominant and you can strengthen the D line even more in the draft. which would be a lot cheaper and could yield similar to greater results.

  11. kyle Hoge Says:

    Haha Joe, love the monopoly money begging during the off season. Once jameis and sack barrett are resigned, there wont be much left..

  12. Joe in Michigan Says:

    Another reason for the Jags to give him major money or franchise him.

  13. BucEmUp Says:

    How many of those were ints thrown vs fumbles? Based on what everyone on here thinks of Jameis a qb only throws an int because he sucks. Doesnt matter how much he is pressured or running for his life right? Makes sense….so with that said how many of those were ints thrown by crap qbs and by good qbs? Lets really dig into this.

  14. mark2001 Says:

    Yawn…another “filler” article. Is it time to gear up for the draft? Not very nice. Joe writes about what interests Joe. –Joe
    What about the next “the Bucs should sign this FA” article, when there is less than a snowballs chance on Clearwater Beach of signing them.

  15. JimmyJack Says:

    Nope it’s a stupid idea and I’ll tell you why. You bring in a high dollar free agent on to a new team and there is no telling how he will perform in his new surroundings. You can’t simply take his production with a old team and think it equals what he will do on a new team.

    We have JPP and we can guarantee he can get us double digits sacks on this team. We can guarantee it……..Now if we don’t have a JPP and nobody that we know can get to the QB then sure you take a gamble on a free agent. But as it sits we have guaranteed passrush that does not need replacing.

    You want more passrush you find it in the draft and develope it to play in your system. You don’t get rid of proven players to hope a free agent comes as advertised.

    Now of that even mentions how JPP is our Captain on defense and how he demands accountability from the rest on the team. He does make them around him better. He is a key player on that defense who establishes our culture……..And oh yeah his defense played pretty danged good when he returned. Giving no credit to the intangables that a player brings is very shallow sighted.

    Wanting the highest priced free agent over a proven playmaker & leader sounds like something a kid would want. It’s like wanting a new toy not knowing if it works better then any of your other toys. The only reason you want it because it’s shiny and new.

  16. BigHog Says:

    ^^^^soooo on that play when Tom threw that pic-6 he sucked !!

  17. Pewter power Says:

    Dee ford the 29 year old guy with a couple good seasons was last years focus, the fake gm here will have 30 more articles about Yannick Ngakoue before the new league year rolls around.

  18. Ndog Says:

    It’s amazing that the teams that are running the ball and playing great defense are the ones winning in the playoffs. Yet we don’t do either and some on this board will always point to others reasons why we don’t win consistently.


  19. Defense Rules Says:

    Joe … Just out of curiosity, wasn’t 2016 the year that Jason Licht selected Noah Spence with our (#39) 2nd Round pick ahead of (#45) Derrick Henry, (#47) Michael Thomas and (#69) Yannick Ngakoue? Just askin …

  20. Buczilla Says:

    I’ll take JPP over this cat, but if we can keep JPP, Shaq, and Yannick I’m cool with it.

  21. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Well NPUPPY, take away the 121 points from Winstons turnovers, 7.5 points per game average and the Bucs average points scored against them per game goes down to 20.6 points per game. Does that score sound better than the 28.1 they gave up with all of winstons turnovers?

    Seems like if wisnton can cut down turnovers (pick 6’s and ints thrown in bucs territory) the Bucs team can perform much better.

    Don’t you agree?

  22. JimmyJack Says:

    NDog…….We don’t play good defense? You see guys. It’s unedacuated comments like these that really do more harm then good to a fanbase…….especially when recirculated on a daily basis.

    NDog do yourself and all of us a big favor and go learn yourself some Bucs football. Time to study up on how good our defense is right now.

  23. Bucsfan951 Says:

    NPUPPY: do you also happen to notice at the time I wrote this, in the 3 games played so far, only 3 ints have been thrown by all of the qbs.

    WISNTON threw 3 or more ints 4 times this season.

    See the difference between this years jameis Winston that these playoff qbs?

  24. JimmyJack Says:

    Almost as bad as the guy Joe wrote about the other day who said our biggest draft need was CB.

    At least he had the excuse of being a national writer. When dumb crap comes from our own fans it’s almost unforgivable.

  25. Ndog Says:

    I don’t care about averages I care about the games and TOs had nothing to do with the 30 plus points our defense gave up to Seattle, Giants and first game against the Saints. You never accept reality or you’re just to stupid.

  26. Ndog Says:

    Yeah 951 I also saw the number of attempts almost half of what our QB throws. But you see that is probably to complex for you to comprehend.

  27. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Wait, now the average of throws per game matter when you said you don’t care about averages?…


  28. Bucsfan951 Says:


    Did you hear me?!!! 4 games with 3 or more ints!!! 121 points allowed off of WISNTON turnovers. You talk about ppl breezing by your facts but you’ve never addressed mine!

  29. TexBuc Says:

    As someone said earlier in this post stats in itself do not tell the whole story. Well that principle also applies to Int’s and TD’s scored. Many here twist stats to justify their position on issues, but disregard when that argument goes against themselves.

  30. Bucsfan951 Says:

    I’ve heard you blame the kicker and now the defense for the giants game. Which one is it?

    Here, let’s play a game. Ready?

    You give me a game where the defense lost it for the Bucs and I’ll give you a game where Winston and his turnovers cost the Bucs the game. Well see who lasts the longest?

    Do you really want to do that? 121 points scored off of WISNTON turnovers. 7.5 points per game off of his turnovers.

  31. Ndog Says:

    I’m done wasting my time on you people, it’s not worth the time. Enjoy your hate filled, CLUELESS lives.

  32. SOEbuc Says:

    Adam from ny…He’s a plan C .Either bring JPP back or try to see if Javon Kinlaw is available at #14.

  33. jjbucfan Says:

    Anybody remember when the media and stupid “fans” tried to run Cousins out of town earlier this year? How ya like him now!!!! Same idiots here in Tampa want Jameis out. Morons are in every city. Just sayin’

  34. Buccaneerscotty Says:

    I think light reads your post and does the opposite lol

  35. DBS Says:

    Telling another lie Nodog. You will be back before the end of the week.

  36. Bucsfan951 Says:

    If Winston was some big time qb, he’d be signed by now. So you can’t put the fans down for questioning his future with the franchise when the franchise hasn’t even made a decision yet. They might sign him to a long term contract… fine then! Or they might tag him… fine then. They might let him go… fine then!

    But don’t say the fans don’t know anything when the franchise is still trying to determine if they want to move forward with him as their leader.

  37. Bucsfan951 Says:

    NPUPPY with that “I’m taking my ball and going home” mentality now. Once someone will go fact to fact with him, he decides enough is enough and we’re all idiots.

    Once again NPUP, I’m for tagging Winston for this coming year so I’m not a “hater” and what ever else you come up with.

  38. Buccaneerscotty Says:

    So glad we passed on cook!!!! After watching the wildcard games this weekend I believe we are so far away from being good it’s not funny! And makes me believe Winston is not the answer. You can’t have big turnovers in games like these and win it’s just not going to happen…..

  39. Bird Says:


    Dude. Wow
    The philosophizer formally known as ndog
    Get over yourself

    What a dang tool you are. I really mean that
    “I dont care about averages “

    Again just wow
    Telling everyone how stupid and clueless they are

  40. DBS Says:

    But if only the kicker had made that kick. But if only. the Saints had got the ball first. Guarantee you are hearing all those excuses in New Orleans right now.

  41. JimmyJack Says:

    “enjoy your clueless lives”…….says the lone fan who understands so little about his own team that he says we don’t play good defense.

    Please guy. Spend this off-season relearned ng the game of football. Rewatch the games and learn just how good this defense has gotten.

    It will be a great benefit to the rest is f the fanbase to have posters here who understand the game clearly.

  42. Adrnagy Says:

    I’m back from casino. Good trip.

    Yeah … our defense sucks. So you want me to believe we are great ? Just because they play avg or good 6 games ?? The damage was done already.

  43. Adrnagy Says:

    There was no secret. Pass the ball against Bucs. You’ll win.

    Now … are we looking good or better for next year ? Sure. But , who’s coming back … and as long no injuries performance will decide. I can’t say yes we have a great defense starting next season.

  44. Lavonte 1of1 Says:

    I don’t know why any of you even talk to this Ndog b|tch on the board. All he seems to do is insult people who have differing opinions.

  45. Im tired and 87 is right Says:

    Jameis da man will be back! Go Bucs! Ndog is consistent unlike most of you. Go Ndog!

  46. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Brees & Brady couldn’t get it done…..one and done…..It takes more than a QB…..but it does take a QB

  47. Buttlover Says:

    I’m tired is right, I’m tired of the same old crappy qb play I’m sick and tired of watching our qb throw to the other team, I’m sick and tired of sucking, I’m sick and tired of spending money on a bad product.. I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired, I’m sick of pooping my pants watching games because I have to watch crap all day

  48. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    There is a huge difference in going into this off-season than last….we had multiple question marks on many players…..and didn’t know our coaches.

    Now we know what we have with most…..Rojo, Cappa, Davis, Dean, SMB, White, Shaq, Suh

    Sure, we have a couple of questionable players……perhaps still kicker…..what will happen with Dotson?

    And….Jameis……no question there….we knew and we know.

  49. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    If Joe wants to write about Yannick Ngakoue, it’s not our place to claim he shouldn’t.

    However, I doubt Yannick Ngakoue will ever hit the market, and JPP actually is more important at this point. Even back for such a short time, he rapidly started producing. His leadership is incredibly important.

  50. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Tampabaybucfan, great point.

    Although, in regard to kicker, I have a feeling Matt Gay will address his issues over this off season. Smart thing is to sign competition, but I hope he overcomes.

  51. Tbbucs3 Says:


    Just because the defense was good the last 2 weeks of the season doesn’t mean they were good the whole season.

    The defense when you look at the scope of the season was not good. Bottom 10 in fact.

    #1 defense blah blah blah if you can’t stop the pass who cares?

  52. Tbbucs3 Says:

    #1 run defense*

  53. Adrnagy Says:

    Not impressed with these playoff QB’s. Not much difference play from jameis.

  54. Adrnagy Says:

    Very conservative QB play “safe” throwing. But they still had turnovers either fumbles or int.

  55. Tampabaybucfan Says:


    I also think Gay will be fine…..he’s got the leg…..and I think he’s got the right head…..they will work it out but he definitely needs to be continually pressured.by competition….that will make him more successful in live games.

  56. geno711 Says:

    Nextgen Stats are new to me this year but there has been an interesting stat to me that I have noticed this year and looking back it was the same last year.

    Peyton Barber faces some of the most 8 man boxes of any running back. It is clearly not because he is elite in my opinion. I think it is more that he lacks any threat as a pass receiving back that teams play him close to the line for the run and then know that he can not exploit them as a receiver even if it is not a run play.

    This seems to be supported in that some of the other high percentage 8 in the box guys are guys like LaGarrett Blount, Alfred Morris, Carlos Hyde, Tevin Coleman, Benny Snell, Frank Gore….

    Where some of the elite running backs face a much lower percentage of 8 in the box because they are able to exploit you as a pass receiver also.

    It kind of speaks to getting a running back that not only has some ability to run the ball but to be a threat as a pass receiver as well.

    If I am wrong let me know as this is new to me in an analysis.

  57. DooshLaRue Says:

    Hey kids, fun fact!

    I just looked up ALL the winning QBs from this weekend and guess what I found?


    I know only us CLUELESS FANS will see that stat as proof that turnovers actually are a huge difference in wins or loses…..

    FACTS hurt don’t they ndog…… and his pathetic supporters.

  58. Tbbucs3 Says:


    All 4 winning teams won because they have great defense. Obviously.

    The Bucs do not. Simple as that.

    The Bucs playing good defense the last 2 weeks does not make up for an entire season of terrible bottom 10 defense.

  59. Tbbucs3 Says:

    You cannot possibly argue that the Bucs defense was good this season. Did they make improvements toward the very end of the season? Yes. But the Bucs were not good enough against the pass to be a contender for the playoffs.

  60. SB Says:

    ^^^^^^Tbbucs………Are you for real?
    Look up Joes stats on how where Our defense fell at the end of this yr.

    7th in the NFL in sacks
    2nd in Passes Defended
    Tied for first in Defensive TDs

    Do you even watch Bucs games?

  61. SB Says:

    You can hug JWs nuts all you want but the Defense Balled out in the second half of the season.
    I live in Montana and most of the people I hang with are NFCW guys and they actually were very impressed with how our Extremely Young Defense was coming along. But go ahead and see through your own goggles.

  62. Tbbucs3 Says:

    Over 400 points allowed total for the season (Not including Winston turnovers) which is bottom 10 in the NFL

    Yes I’m absolutely forreal.

    The Texans and Falcons game was the only game I was truely impressed with the defense.

    And don’t point to preformances against the Lions (With David Blough at QB and Wes Hills at RB) and the Jags who are a dumpster fire either because those are two crappy offenses.

    You must of forgot about Danny Dimes?

  63. Adrnagy Says:

    Good for you living in Montana congrats. !

    I live in Jupiter

    Who cares we’re you live and what your BFf say. Defense sucked. A season is 17 games long. I don’t care if the defense turn it around wk9-10-11.
    Bottom of the list in yds allowed and pts.
    Who cares with your defense stats. Bucs gave up yds and TD.

    Can you say our defense is great going in next season?

  64. SB Says:

    So you can’t wrap that simple little mind of yours to understand that not One DB is over 23? Three Rooks and a Second yr CB for most of the year? Dude what is wrong with you? We had the MOST improved D in the Entire NFL from weeks 8 to 17. Jeeesh
    Go be a Dolphins fan

  65. Tbbucs3 Says:

    The Bucs gave up 27+ points 12/16 games this year’s. 12!

    Your gonna tell me that’s good? Hahahaa

  66. Adrnagy Says:

    NFL = professional level.

    Not college. Not elementary. No matter what age. Color. Size you best believe to be ready not needing a babysitter.

  67. SB Says:

    Well Adrnagy I guess you have a buddy
    Both of you are spoons in a drawer full of knives

    For those of you clueless ‘fans’
    Defensive Stats will always be skewed when the QB gives the ball away like Santa Claus and puts extra stress on the D

    OH and the 4 winning QBs this weekend had a COMBINED 29 ints.

    Things that make you go hmmmm

  68. SB Says:

    Tbb……..YOUNG……….Dude don’t you get it?

  69. Adrnagy Says:

    let me google “whole year “ Nfl defense ranks overall. Ok. Hold on.

  70. SB Says:

    First half of the season we were 19th in sacks
    Finished 7th
    First half of the season we were 29th in Passes Defended
    Finished 2nd
    Haven’t finished researching what we were first half of the season in Defensive TDs but we finished Tied for First.
    If you can’t appreciate that then GTFOH

  71. JimmyJack Says:

    Tbbucs. Two games is just flat out wrong. For reference Julio Jones did less against is the first time around then he did last week. And that was like 6-7 games ago. Defense has played real good football in every game since then.

    Now you might think it was a fluke or luck or whatever. That’s your opinion. If you gotta see us start off next year the same way to be proven so be it. That’s exactually what they’ll do.

    But the signs have been their all year. #1 run stop. Top team at getting off the field on third down. Lots of turnovers. If I remember right only 1 game all year they didn’t get a turnover. Also a stout goalline D with plenty of goalline e stands to look back on this year.

    It was fun watching them grow!!

    GO BUCS!!!

  72. SB Says:

    I wish some of you fake fans would just leave.
    Go give your ‘support’ to Jax or Mia. Please!!!!!

  73. SB Says:

    Jimmy I think you are typing to two brick walls. Just like I apparently am

  74. Tbbucs3 Says:

    “We had the MOST improved D in the Entire NFL from weeks 8 to 17.”

    That’s great. Unfortunately the 1st half of the season counts too.

    And you wanna talk about the week 11 Saints game (34 points to Bridewater) or the week 9 40 points to the Seahawks.

    Probably not.

  75. SB Says:

    When you are ranked #1 in the league against the run and #2 in Passes Defended, and 7th in Sacks all you need is a QB that doesn’t turn the ball over.

  76. JimmyJack Says:

    Yeah we gave up 28 to Atlanta. And you just said that game was good. So you contradicting your own self. But that’s because you know it was good cause they gave up 1 TD for a entire game and it took a trick play to do it.

    So quite obvisously touting 27+ means little to nothing with none context.

  77. SB Says:

    Not sure what you do for a living Tbb but I am pretty sure you weren’t as good at it yr one as you are now. Also pretty sure you didn’t go from day one to being one of the best in the World in your first yr. Jamal Dean and Murphy Bunting did as well as Carlton Davis in his second.
    Pretty self righteous of you don’t you think?

  78. Adrnagy Says:

    28th in takeaways.

    No name calling. Or I’m going to Montana

  79. Adrnagy Says:

    I guess you’re really tired of not winning that all you watch is high school football.

  80. JimmyJack Says:

    But your right the entire season does count. And overall it was bad because of that. But the kicker is that the second half of the year is more relevant…….The second half is who we are. The first half is who we were.

  81. Adrnagy Says:

    15th in yds allowed ?
    29 th in points allowed ?
    28th in takeaways ?

    And then you come talking about the QB fault? Keep it real and stick to your point of defense.

  82. SB Says:

    LOL Adrnagy.
    The sad fact of this all is that you are in the 2% of the world in your sad beliefs.
    Beer goggles and all
    Have a good night.

  83. SB Says:

    And yes I do watch a lot of HS Football because I coach it.

  84. Adrnagy Says:

    Flashes of greatness yes. But it was to late. The season unfolded. Like Bruce said it in the conference call. You lose games in September. Those games come and hunt you down the stretch.

    So the point is defense was not good. Flashes of what can it be YES for next year. But it’s up to licht. We don’t get the right moves this offseason our defense will regress.

  85. Adrnagy Says:

    I’m sorry for the team or players you coach.

  86. Tbbucs3 Says:


    College football player nice try

  87. Adrnagy Says:

    No wonder… no players come out From Montana.

  88. JimmyJack Says:

    Adrnargy……We had 12 INTs and 16 fumbles recoved on defense. That was 5th most in the league.

    28th was our total team turnover differential. It factors in offensive turnovers.

    Looking at only defense we was Top 5.

  89. SB Says:

    WOW. You are a real a$$hat.
    Please never respond to me again
    I certainly will never reply to one of your posts again.

    Also my team went undefeated in the regular season only to lose in Districts because our QB went down
    They thank you much for your sentiments

  90. Tbbucs3 Says:

    Notice how the anti Jameis crowd always try to go for the insults

    I’m not even a pro Jameis or anti defense guy. I’ve been waiting since 2014 for the Bucs to have a good defense and after watching the 2019 Bucs season I was still waiting.

    The 2019 Bucs defense was a lot like 2016. Played bad for most of the year but had a good stretch of 5 games. Horray!

  91. Adrnagy Says:

    You insult. Name calling.
    And you get called out and you p** out. What a F ** marshmallow.

  92. JimmyJack Says:

    Tbbucs……..That’s OK if you don’t believe in this defense. Some people need more then other to belive. But I’mma tell you right now to be prepared. The Bucs will keep these players together. We gonna have a good defense next year.

  93. Adrnagy Says:

    Jimmy you right.

  94. SB Says:

    Tbb……..I am a Gator Alum that was ALL For the JW draft.
    I have been an Ardent supporter of his ALL along
    This was his ‘Prove it Year’ He didn’t do himself or OUR team any favors
    He basically Spotted EVERY team 8 points this yr at Kickoff on average
    I am done supporting him. I will suffer him if I have to but supporting is not really a real scenario in this case. I am NOT Anti Jameis. I am just being real
    And the D improved in the last 8 games not 5

  95. Adrnagy Says:

    Keeping acouple dline will help.

  96. Tbbucs3 Says:

    JimmyJack……..Sure hope so

  97. Adrnagy Says:

    Who has the stats for blitz % first half of season vs second half ?

  98. SB Says:

    Licht has made some BONEheaded draft picks and FA pickups.
    However I think he hit a homerun with Dean, SMB and Davis.
    Whitehead too possibly Edwards
    Many people outside of the 813 think the Bucs D can be Truly formidable next yr because of the Young Talent. Dean and Davis were #1 and 3 respectively in Passes Defended and SMB tied for top Rookie with 3 Picks
    If you want to just trash the end result of our D this yr then there are too many trees in your way for you to see the forest

  99. JimmyJack Says:

    Can see why some fans would be reserved to be optimistic about this defense after getting fooled by Mike Smith’s phony 2016 campaign.

    A main difference is probably the line of scrimmage. When that 2016 defense got into a meaningful game in Dallas them guys were manhandled and taken advantage of in the trenches. Eziekiel Elliot pounded us all day and exposed us. It was embarrassing.

    Disagree if you wanna but I could never…..never……see that happening to these guys. We play with a lot more physicality then that 2016 team did. No way somebody just gonna walk all over this D.

  100. Adrnagy Says:

    It doesn’t matter what you believe in right now. Once free agency and draft are over. We will see paradise or hell for next year.

  101. JimmyJack Says:

    SB that’s funny because I think most fans would agree with you that those drafted players have all been good picks so far………….But if you rewind to last year directly after the draft fans were calling it a awful draft for JL.

    It would freaking be funny to go back now and look at all them comments. Guess Licht knew what he was doing after all.

  102. SB Says:

    I completely Concur JJ!
    In fact I was dubious of it for so many DBs in the first three rounds in two consecutive drafts. I feel like I have been proven wrong as well.

  103. JimmyJack Says:

    In retrospect those draft choices made a lot of sense. For one they inherited the worst defense in the league. Devoting a whole draft(mostly) made a lot of sense.

    Dfating all them DBs was a bit of a head scratcher but I firmly believe they knew heading in that Hargreaves was probably not gonna be here long term. They certainly also knew during that draft that Evans was not coming back next year.

  104. SB Says:

    Well spoken Sir.

  105. Adrnagy Says:

    For the first half of the season all negative or constructive criticism. After season, wow you believed in Licht suddenly.
    Last year draft a lot of negative or constructive criticism. Now Licht is a hero.

    Suddenly we believe and everything is beautiful.
    Keep it real.

  106. Adrnagy Says:

    A lot of love in the air. Suddenly……

  107. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Yes, the Bucs defense wasn’t the greatest this year. There’s no denying that. But 7 pick 6’s doesn’t help out. You wanna know what else doesn’t help out? All of the turnovers by the offense that lead to 121 points. 121 points were scored off of turnovers. 7.5 points per game. MANY INTS IN BUCS TERRITORY!!! So, yes, I guess you can blame the defense but jameis and this offense didn’t help matters out, either.

    121 points friends, 121 points!!!

  108. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Off subject…..but have an observation about “meaningless games”……How about those Miami Dolphins……last game of their season……most described them early in the year as “tanking”……
    Well, they went a beat the NE Patriots…..cost them a bye and probably helped them out of the playoffs. In the process the Dolphins cost themselves a draft position.
    That game was very meaningful to the Patriots…..and it is my belief that all games have meaning and the objective is to win.
    That is what a winning culture is.

  109. SteveK Says:

    5th in takeaways

    28th in turnover differential when you add in our teams turnovers committed.

    39 turnovers from Jameis. Where does that rank?

    Teams with poor turnover differential are at home for the playoffs.

  110. jjbucfan Says:

    Tbbf- this is why JW- told Dirk to F off and audibled to Godwin. You play every game to win, period. If Gay hits 1of his 3 misses, we don’t even go to OT and we end 8-8, if Gay hit the 40 yarder against the Giants we are 9-7 and if the refs don’t blow the whistle against the Titans, which was a point of emphasis for them to let the play run out, we are 10-6, and if we get the toss against Seattle or don’t go conservative in the second half, we are 11-5. Yeah yeah I know if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle, the point is, we are that close. Why the F would you want to get rid of a guy that threw for 5100+ yards and 33 TDs. There is only a couple answers…1. You are racist, which I don’t believe for 9/10 of you guys and girls, 2. You are Gators which is probably the answer for most here and you’re hiding behind the INT narrative, or you’re not true Buc fans. The fact is, he is the most exciting thing that has ever happened to this franchise, like it or not. I’m a JW guy, I’m a Nole, so I know this dude turns the ball over, but I also know he wins when he has a full compliment of teams, meaning defense and ST. Will he lose you a game every now and then? Sure, but look at him when he had D Cook in the backfield and a decent (not great) defense, and a great college kicker (also the worst 2nd round pick ever by us). 26-1. Yeah yeah, this isn’t college or the ACC- he beat every conference in college. He has beaten almost every team in the NFL. Give him protection and he will win. Play decent defense and we will win. Make your F-ing makeable FGs and we will win. We got a taste of winning this year, watch out next year. I saw a publication put out way too early predictions, Bucs 10-6,11-5 if they bring back JW- 5-11, 6-10 with Rookie QB, 7-9, 8-8 with a veteran FA. Interesting

  111. jjbucfan Says:

    JJ- in that Dallas game-we lost because our o-line quit in the second half. We made that one dude’s career (which I believe he ruined for drugs) Irving I think. And our defense couldn’t stop Elliott.

  112. Allbuccedup Says:

    Let’s see Barrett 17 mil, Nagkoue 18 mil, Jaboo 27 mil, Godwin raise. Doesn’t leave much for anyone else Joe. You make Jason Licht look like a genius.