“Tampa Is The Most Exciting Bad Team”

January 28th, 2020

Jimmy Johnson of FOX Sports.

Joe has written several times that Mr. Entertainment, America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, makes the Bucs relevant. Here is a perfect example why.

There are only a handful of folks from the Tampa Bay area credentialed for Super Bowl Week media events. And when FOX Sports held a media availability today for its network personalities, twice when Joe walked up to fight the scrum to ask questions, reporters from outside the Tampa Bay region were asking Jimmy Johnson and Terry Bradshaw questions about Jameis — not Joe.

But since those guys went there…

Joe will have remarks from Bradshaw later this week. But Joe heard Johnson say something when answering a Jameis question that Joe laughed so hard Johnson began talking to Joe like a friend having beers at his Islandmorada bar.

Johnson doesn’t believe Bruce Arians, if he can find an option, will bring Jameis back because of the turnovers.

Then Johnson added — with sincere admiration — that “Tampa is the most exciting bad team in the NFL. They are. They are the most exciting bad team.”

So Joe asked Johnson at what point is all the production the offense gets from Jameis — and Johnson admitted that’s quite a bit — thrown away because of turnovers?

In so many words, Johnson said he wouldn’t tolerate it.

“Well, I learned a long, long time ago success in the NFL is not how many great plays you make. It’s how few bad plays you make,” Johnson said.

So in that Johnson Meter, Jameis flunks.

“I don’t care if you are a running back, if you go 10 yards, 10 yards, 10 yards, 10 yards and fumble — you are not going to play for me!” Johnson said. “I’d rather have four yards, four yards, four yards and hold onto the ball.”

So now the question is, can the Bucs find a quarterback that can get them production without picks? And can the defense be sturdy enough to hold teams down with less points scored?

The Bucs were third in average points scored per game this past season. Teams even with them or better were all in the playoffs and one of them is playing Sunday.

That’s nothing to sneeze at. Picks or no picks.

104 Responses to ““Tampa Is The Most Exciting Bad Team””

  1. Aceofaerospace Says:

    Sounds like what I’ve been saying for a couple years about Mr Pick-6, one oh shat wipes out a whole bunch of attaboys.

  2. Fb Says:

    So one of the great coaches just said turnovers are weighted more than all of the highlight plays. Joe(lee) must be drowning his sorrows at the bar

  3. miken Says:

    Most exciting bad team. Mr excitment is not exciting because a bad team is bad.

  4. gotbbucs Says:

    He’s not a good QB. If not for the 30/30 part of this season, it would be a season that is forgotten quickly. Drew Bress has like 3-5 5000 yard seasons, does anybody remember any of them? No. People remember winning seasons.
    Winning, winning matters, not pointless stats that still led to a losing season.

  5. Defense Rules Says:

    @Jimmy Johnson … “Well, I learned a long, long time ago success in the NFL is not how many great plays you make. It’s how few bad plays you make.”

    One of the best lines I’ve heard in many years. Dead on target.

  6. Locked In Says:

    Interesting comments. I am in favor of Jameis Winston returning for at least 1 more season, but I do understand JJ’s thoughts on it too. good article Joe.

  7. stravenite Says:

    Laughing stock of the nfl, so many good players now held back
    by the freak show Jaymiss, how many authorities do you have to
    tell you we aren’t going anywhere with JW at QB, surely there
    is some sense at one bucs place.

    Lets hope so !

    No Franchising / contract – let him walk and find out who wants
    to pay for him to run the nfl’s exciting bad team ?

  8. gambelero Says:

    Looked at the drive stats, which give a much more accurate portrait than things like total points.

    Going back ten years, our .155 Int/drive was the worst for the whole decade. Only the 17 Browns (0-16 season with DeShore Kizer) and drum roll….18 Bucs came close.

    We were top three in several good categories like red zone TDs, (not going) 3 and outs and (not) punting. In the most important stats like points per possession and yards per possession, we were 10th and 15th respectively.

  9. Ed Says:

    Please let him walk, so next year he will be in the playoff’s like Mr. Kwon Alexander. and all the other player’s the fans ran out of town. One year in this system, with Winston, how do you think a rookie quarter would be behind this line dropping back 50 times per game. What veteran Quarterback would come here unless he just wants to get paid (Over Paid).

  10. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I would expect most fans to agree that watching the Bucs play is exciting….in particular because we usually make the game close…..one way or the other.
    I can’t count how many times I watched a lead slip away……or a blowout become close.
    Very frustrating but very exciting.

  11. mark2001 Says:

    Sure…who wants to see a grind it out, boring winning team? More fun to watch a bad losing exciting team. Who said football is about winning?…it is about exciting participation.

  12. Dreghost Says:

    Spoken words from a true y’all of famer!
    We don’t need a superstar QB, we need a game manager and a solid team around him to win, IN BA I TRUST. But he will flunk with J.W.

  13. stpetebucsfan Says:


    Such optimism is certainly encouraging. We have to have a SINGLE player or we suck?

    Some of us like where out defense is right now…if of course we sign our boatload of FA’s on that side…

    I’ll trust BA’s judgement…until I don’t. If he brings #3 back we better reach the playoffs its’ as simple as that.

    Check out all the QB’s in the playoffs…there were a lot of young guys..it doesn’t take five years anymore….well not normally. Usually teams cut bait long before five years.

    I’m tired of being the most exciting LOSING team. I trade a lot of excitement for a few more wins.

    We need a stout RT and a giant RB to complement ROJO…we’re not that far away.

  14. Hodad Says:

    As long as we’re the red headed step child of the NFL, we might as well trade for Dalton. Then we would have a QB that literally looked like a red headed step child. Dalton has a year left at about 15 million. Sign him, draft a QB, bye, bye, Jameis. Dalton had no trouble passing when he had AJ Green. He’d do great with our wide outs, and TE’s.

  15. El Buco Realisto Says:

    Last time I heard an NFL team was described as “most exciting bad team” was the 0 and 16 Lions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. Tye Says:

    “I don’t care if you are a running back, if you go 10 yards, 10 yards, 10 yards, 10 yards and fumble — you are not going to play for me!” Johnson said.

    It is a mindset among winning coaches..
    The main goal is to score on every drive but not practical…
    So you score on the majority of the drives…
    The drives you don’t score, you want to at the least get to where you put and pin the opponent deep in their end of the field…
    The managing of the clock and controlling the game only comes into play the last quarter or often the opponent will come back on you..

    That said, when you have a qb that CONSISTENTLY gives the ball to the other team to instantly score many times or a short field that they get more opportunities to score than he gives you, he needs to be replaced or you will never get to the next level..

    That is why the chances are slim to none that Bill Belicheck would ever risk his reputation on JW.. I highly doubt Nick Saban, Paul Bear Bryant or any other winning coach would have let him finish this season.. if Gabbert were healthy, Arians might have pulled JW!

  17. Bucnjim5656 Says:

    The Jimmy Johnson statement is simple and based on facts. You can’t win in the NFL if you turn the ball over. -1 in turnover ratio you have a 33% chance of winning -2 you have little or no chance of winning. Let’s look at the two Super Bowl QBs if you combine them Winston still has 13 more turnovers. 30 turnovers (2 per game) gives us little to no chance of winning most games. I know I know this hurts people’s feelings but facts really are just facts.

  18. jerseybuc Says:

    He has been this way all his life. Nothing I see makes me think he will ever change. What changes is he now wants to eat up 20% of the salary cap. Time to move forward. SB winning coaches want consistency and a QB they can trust.

  19. Alanbucsfan Says:

    Johnson cut a RB , Curvin Richards, the week before playoffs started because Richards fumbled twice in a mop up role in a Cowboys win over Bears at end of ‘92 season.

  20. Alanbucsfan Says:

    So Joe asked Johnson at what point does all the production the offense gets from Jameis — and Johnson admitted that’s quite a bit — is all thrown away because of turnovers?

    How about 5-11, 5-11, 7-9?

  21. GoldBoy Says:

    I bet Joe went to his safe space to weep after that encounter! So long Jamoist, the world needs garbage men!! #NoPlayoffs

  22. Pewter power Says:

    You idiot fans calling us the laughing stock of the league are truly delusional, like dating the hot chick that keeps cheating on you because she’s so hot. If you dont plan on making changes why you complaining?

    The Browns are still the laughing stock of the league so rest easy. All of you pick them with their rookie coach to be in the freaking superbowl with all you wisdom and here they are after all that hype working with a new rookie coach and new GM. Making fun of the glazers, the browns have a new coach to pay and still have to pay kitchens and are still probably paying hugh jackson.

  23. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    A HOFer agrees with knowledgeable fans and Clueless Joe still thinks he’s right

    Hey Clueless hows Johnny Manziel doing? Ha ha ha

  24. BucEmUp Says:

    If they defense starts the way they finished its all good. Jameis. Name one strong point about the Tampa Bay Bucaneers team offense other than wide receiver since Jameis was drafted. Did he have

    Good pass defense

    Good run defense


    Good run game

    Good special teams

    A kicker

    WHAT DID HE HAVE AROUND HIM??? Some of you think getting him out of here would CHANGE ALL OF THAT??!!!!!

  25. Ship Thief Says:

    I totally agree with him.

  26. Boltsfan17 Says:

    Not sure that’s a compliment.

  27. Jean Lafitte Says:

    Jameis did most of the scoring in a little over half of the games. There were 6 games he scored 22 points or less. That’s 6 out of 16. Oddly the games he scored less points in he had less turnovers. Some of his high scoring games we lost because of inordinate amount of turnovers. Kind of discredits the notion that yards are a predictor of talent. Lot’s of yards because of catch-up football. The gunslinger mentality hurt him way more than it helped him. Besides having possibly the leagues best tandem of WR’s this mentality and the scheme allowed him to reach 5000 yards.

    If Jameis had been more of a game manager I believe he would have had more wins just by decreasing his turnovers, and not putting his defense on their heels. If they bring Jameis back let’s hope he finally gets it. The fanbase is demoralized and gotten tired of his schtick.

  28. Sport Says:

    Bucemup – can’t argue those points. The unfortunate reality is his situational football has been pretty low. Now he’s in a position to command a huge sum of money, but he hasn’t clearly/definitively earned it. In fact, it sounded like JJ would have canned his ass. Kind of like Dirk was in the process of doing. I still say it took huge ones to sit JW when he was healthy.

    It’s not cut and dry to pay him $30M+. It gets in the way of fielding a strong team around him. Catch 22.

    In BA I Trust!

  29. BrianBucs Says:

    Johnson is 100% correct.

    There is absolutely NOTHING entertaining about watching your QB throw pick after pick and continuous pick 6’s that cost your team games.

    Bucs Need To Move On From Winston

  30. Ndog Says:

    No Jean the fan base is tired of watching one single facet of the game trying to win each week. Why is it the same loser posters want to hold Jameis accountable for EVERYTHING yet the trash (80% of the season) defense, choke artist kicker and deplorable running game are completely let of the hook? It’s ridiculous and I’m frankly tired of reading the same completely moronic takes day after day. Simply put you people have no idea what you are talking about and really need to shut the fu⛎k up!

  31. Ndog Says:

    Defense and/or kicker cost us the Giants game, first NO game, Seattle game and second Atlanta game. For you complete idiots out there that is 4 games and we won 7 so our record should have been 11-5, and that is without Evans for the final quarter of the season, without Godwin for the final 2 and a half games and our QB PLAYING with a freaking broken thumb on his throwing hand. And this was all in this first year of a new coaching staff!!!

    Yet you people say we can’t win with this QB, well newsflash morons if the team around him didn’t suck out loud we win 11 games and are in the playoffs.

    You are so frustrating with your complete lack of football knowledge, it’s like listening to a bunch of 5 years.

  32. Frankinthe813 Says:

    I’m tired of this subject 🤮

  33. JimmyJack Says:

    Bucemup……In most of Winston’s time all that’s been true. Last year however we saw the team grow into Bowles defense.

    I’m darn sure their keeping that defense together and we will be legit next year. Last off season we seen them address that side of the ball with most of their investments.

    Now this off-season they will address other areas(mostly running offense) while fortifying the defense & kicker.

    Make no bones the rest of this team will be ready to rock and roll next year. We need a QB that can make it count and lead us to wins……..You’d have to be tapped in the head to not have some questions whether Winston is able to give us the consistent level of play necessary from his position.

    If he comes back it will be time for him to step his freaking game up. Nothing less will be acceptable.

  34. SteveK Says:


    You are wrong

    The second Atlanta game is on Jameis. Two picks, one pick 6.

    Jameis and the offense scored nada in the second half of that game.

    Please don’t lie.

    Is Jimmy Johnson “clueless” now too.

    Can’t wait for playoffs! I’m starving!

  35. SteveK Says:


    You are kidding yourself!

    Turnover margin and the historical W-L implications are REAL.

    Do yourself a favor and “GET A CLUE”. 😉

  36. JimmyJack Says:

    NDog stop with the stupidness. Anybody reading comments has surely grown tired of it.

    Tit for tat you can blame defense for this or that and if I want I can blame QB for just as many.

    And at the end of the day the defense showed true growth. A real and tangable reason for hope. And they did it consistently. Winston did none of that and was up and down all season. He last two games were atrocious and did not look all prepared to lead this team.

    He needs to step his game up bro so quit acting like anyone held him back. When the rest of the team was ready to surge he flopped. And yeah that Texans game meant something to many fans. And it meant something to every player. A chance to really proove ourselfs.

    And yeah that Falcons game meant something too. After 2 decades of futility. 8-8 Don’t sound so rough. Lots of fans wanted it and so did the players and coaches. Winston choked bro and you can never take that back.

    That aren’t good enough dude. That’s not how you QB in the NFL. Winston better step the heck up. And likewise to you and your standards.

  37. Billy_45 Says:

    I understand your frustration with that completely NDOG.
    I’m sure the haters are tired of hearing it takes a special talent to throw for 5,000+ yds for only the 8th player in NFL History.

    I think we have ironed out the details well enough by now on both sides of the fence.

    It could go either way and honestly I DO TRUST IN BA!!!
    I think next year is exciting regardless of what BA decides, so I’m done pointing out stats.

    I want to talk more about FAs, keeping this defense together, and whether BA has enough balls to actually draft an O Lineman in the 1ST ROUND.

    This team is close either way.
    I choose to be content to wait and find out!!!

  38. Ndog Says:

    Below are exactly half of the interceptions that Jameis was tagged with this year. Do any of these look like we are putting our QB in good situations?

    SF 2nd & 13
    Rams 3rd & 9
    Car 3rd & 13
    Car 4th & 10
    Tenn 2nd & 13
    Arz 3rd & 7
    Arz 3rd & 11
    NO 2nd & 10
    NO 3rd & 11
    NO 4th & 10
    Atl 3rd & 7
    Indy 3rd & 10
    Indy 2nd & 9
    Det 2nd & 23
    Hou 2nd & 10
    Atl 2nd & 10

  39. SteveK Says:

    Below is the number of points the Buccaneers scored in the second half of week 17 against ATL:


    That’s right! We scored 0 in the second half, and Jameis threw a pick 6 on the first play of OT

    For those keeping score at home, and NDog, that’s 1 second half INT and 0TD

  40. Ndog Says:

    SteveK how do you score points if your kicker misses every kick? They were scared to throw the ball because Justin Watson is out there running the wrong routes which caused the first pick. If the kicker makes his kicks we blow them out. Then if you want to go there on the pick 6 fine it was tipped at the line what is the QB supposed to do about that? But I know he’s supposed to stop the ball in mid flight redirect it to avoid the dlineman right? Dude you are so full of it.

  41. SteveK Says:

    What about week 16?

    Four INTs and two more dropped. The Texans owned Jameis.

    We were 7-7 going into week 16 and Jameis threw away our chance at a winning record or a .500 record.

  42. SteveK Says:

    Turnovers matter

  43. Ndog Says:

    So Jameis is our kicker now as well? I didn’t know he costs us 9 points in the second half that would have put the game away?

  44. Daytona Buc Says:

    Joe, when are you going to provide the “points off turnovers” here to substantiate your case that his prolific passing numbers outweigh the turnovers?

  45. Jean Lafitte Says:

    Why are we 2nd & 10, or 3rd & 11? There’s no context? All this tells me is that when Jameis has down and distance to contend with, he chokes and turns the ball over.

  46. SteveK Says:

    That’s right!

    Gay can go too!

  47. SteveK Says:

    What about the 19 INTs in TayJay, and 24 @ home, counting London.

  48. Ndog Says:

    What you don’t understand SteveK is why and how TOs happen almost matter. That is what makes you uneducated, you don’t have the mental capacity to grasp that as all you see are numbers.

  49. Ndog Says:

    Jean there is simple context if you watch our games. It’s called no running game, stupid penalities and predictable play calling. Anyone who has watched our games knows that.

  50. RustyRhinos Says:

    Do we want to be “relevant” or “Dominant”?

    Sadly it sounds like Joe is happy to just be “relevant” as long as that relevancy revolves around Winston. What a crock of fumbles to go with that plethora of INT’s. I want to be Dominant and Win games and that is what brings in NEW fans. Is it “relevant” to be part of the oops moments on BSPN, oops there is another multi INT and a fumble game, oops it is another first pass in the first possession for a pick Six. Yes there are great plays made by Winston as well. But are those really the reason Joe thinks with Winston we are “relevant”?

    RIP the band aid off already. Move on..

  51. Joe Says:

    Joe, when are you going to provide the “points off turnovers” here to substantiate your case that his prolific passing numbers outweigh the turnovers?

    If people have a deep desire to know this, they are welcome to take the hours to research this from Pro Football Reference.

  52. SteveK Says:


    Don’t get in a hissy for bc you can’t defend the fact that turnover matter. Historical data does not lie.

    You excuse interceptions for Jameis, what if you excused INTs for the other QBs across the league? Jameis would still lead the league by a wide margin.

    34 TDs: 35 Turnovers

  53. 1sparkybuc Says:

    It’s a team game and Jameis never had a team around him until the last half of 2019. The D finally stepped up and they went 5-3. With Evans and Godwin they would have won the last two, and that’s with a QB with a fractured thumb on his throwing hand in his first year in a new system. Screw the trolls. Sign him up long term. Best we’ve had in 43 years even with the turnovers.

  54. SteveK Says:

    Turnovers matter*

  55. Ndog Says:

    I really need someone to tell me how having your kicker miss 3 FGs in the second half and getting two balls picked one in which the WR clearly ran the wrong route and the second was tipped at the line of scrimmage is a QB chocking? Does no other player have accountability? Is Gay not supposed to make his kicks, is Watson not supposed to run the correct route, is Dotson not supposed to get the DE arms down? The reality is you people want to blame Winston and CHOOSE to ignore the facts. He played the way you people beg him to in the second half vs Atlanta, he didn’t take chances set up the FG and what happened? Missed kick, missed kick, missed kick them the defense in the final minutes gives up not one but two FG drives to tie the game yet it’s all on the QB right?

  56. JimmyJack Says:

    Daytona……One of the posters here keeps posting the points off turnovers. Bucs915 I think is who. If I remember right turnovers led directly to 121 points.

    It actually hurts more then just 121 too. Because you are taking potential points off the board when you turn it over. Also the momentum shift is a buzz kill too.

    And even with the 121 our defense actually held up really well when given short field. The stats on how stingy our defense was on short fields was actually pretty amazing. So the 121 could of been worse…..That goes to show you how many stats are misleading. Our defense actually was really good if quite a few areas like 3rd down % for example(if I remember right). But for most it’s easier to look at points and say they suck.

    To be fair our defense did have a couple really bad games early in the season.

  57. Ndog Says:

    SteveK do other teams league the league in penalities? Do other teams lead the league in blown assignments? See those are mistakes and those mistakes also caused TOs that others are responsible for and yes it is more for us as we made other mistakes more often in every other category as well. It is clear but again you have to be willing to believe that everything is not the QB’s fault which you clearly don’t have the capability of doing.

  58. JimmyJack Says:

    NDog it was choking. Tipped or not it was a awful decision.

    And I was at that game and forget to record so I never saw the replay. And I’m glad I never will.

    Even without seeing it I will take the words of all the people that I heard and trust that break down film and nobody said the tip was the reason why it was picked. It likely would of been picked either way. Wasn’t a deflection. Best case was an incompletion. But those aren’t my words. Like I said I never saw it replayed.

    I’m sure they showed the replay at the stadium but I was so disgusted I headed directly for the corridors as soon as it got picked. Don’t even think I saw the defender cross the goalline.

  59. Ndog Says:

    JimmyJack our defense at the beginning of the year was HORRIFIC not just “a couple of bad games”. The Giants game, Rams game, Saints games, Seahawks game, Cardinals game and to a certain extent the Colts game. People can say we improved but it was well after the season was over.

  60. JamesrunningWilder Says:

    It’s Not Merely the Interceptions, it’s the Consequences of those Interceptions. Not only did Many of his Interceptions give the Other Team Great Field Position, his Interceptions DIRECTLY Resulted in the Other Team Scoring 7 TD’s. Not to mention, How Many Times did. JW throw Interceptions on The First Drive of the game? It’s Not Just the Interceptions, it’s that Many of his Interceptions had a Tremendous Impact on The Score of a Game and whether The Bucs Won or Lost that game. Even if you were to Eliminate

  61. Ndog Says:

    You have no idea where that ball was going! When tipped it both slows the ball down and changes direction it is impossible for anyone on this Earth to know where it was going. You are giving an opinion not stating fact, and I have seen it and it was clearly tipped and you can find video anywhere if you want. When a ball is tipped at the line there is not one person in their right mind that would blame the QB unless of course his name his Jameis Winston.

  62. JimmyJack Says:

    They won us the Cardinals game in the fourth quater. You Don’t know what your talking about.

  63. ATrain Says:

    Hey NDog

    Stop making excuses by pointing the finger at everyone else

    You are ok with firing the kicker and letting others good for not preforming


    Jamies is a QB pay between 25-30 million MOST IMPORTANT POSITION

    KICKER umm 2-3 million maybe Least important

    Answer up for JAMIES



  64. JimmyJack Says:

    Well I’m glad I didn’t see the replay. One less INT to tell your your wrong about.

    As I said it wasn’t my words……Heard most of the breakdowns on podcasts. All of which you can call in. You should call and state your case. That would be funny to me.

  65. ATrain Says:

    Oh and Jamie ahas gotten WORSE not better with INTs

    F I V E Y E A R S.

    Stop blaming others for Jamies Mistakes HE has fixed

  66. JimmyJack Says:

    And your living in the past with this defense mumbo jumbo.

    Yes they were bad at the start. A couple good games a few really awful.

    But they grew into Bowles defense and we’re consistently good. Borderline elite at times. Nearly every win down the stretch they closed out.

    We now have a defense we can win with. We need a QB that can make it count. Winston meanwhile remained inconsistent all year. And when he had a defense to back him he was unable to lead us to victories at the end of the year. He was a major letdown in those final games. And they were big tests……..He must play better then that if we wanna contend. It’s quite simple.

  67. JimmyJack Says:

    And if our defense had been good all year then we would of had a shot…….And look at the records of the wild card teams. …….I can almost say for sure that the Texans game would have been huge for our playoff standings.

    Now you tell me what freaking happened? It darn sure wasn’t the defense. That crap wasn’t good enough and never will be.

    And Don’t you dare brush it off like it’s just one game. That’s the whole point. This isn’t the 1913 Would Series. You Don’t get a nine game series. This is the NFL and you get one danged game. That freaking crap is nowhere near good enough. Nor was the following week. Consistency matters……Our defense has it. QB not.

  68. Ndog Says:

    Murray threw for 324 and 3 TDs and a rookie WR with zero TDs coming into the game had 138 and 3 TDs including a 33 yarder and a 69 yarder. So one interception in the fourth QB means you didn’t get roasted the entire day before that? Bro I like you but don’t challenge on my knowledge, I know what I’m talking about as I probably watch more football than this entire chat room combined. I go to EVERY game including preseason, I watch the entire game again then I also watch the All 22 for the details. Not bragging or anything cause I might be crazy for doing it but I love it and it drives me crazy that some on here clearly just talk out of their a$$.

  69. SteveK Says:

    Fact: INT 30 was stared down, and a poor decision, even if slightly tipped.

    Over the past decade, the team that wins the turnover battle wins more than 75% of the time.

  70. SteveK Says:


    Was the INT of Murray to save the game? It sure was!

    35 turnovers vs 34 turnovers. Challenge the knowledge that more turnovers equates to more losses.

  71. Ndog Says:

    You say remained inconsistent yet when he had his weapons he was ON FIRE and we won 4 in a row so I would say they were growing as an offense as well. Then we just happened to lose Evans, then Godwin, then Miller then the last two weeks who exactly was playing that Jameis had been growing in this offense with? Oh Perriman and how did that go? Ah yeah pretty damn well I’d say, and besides him he had….. Watson who let’s not forget started off the season getting less snaps on offense than currently unemployed Bobo Wilson. So let’s take Shaq and JPP off the offense and see how they do the last 3 week’s of the year. Are you serious?

  72. stpetebucsfan Says:

    @Jean L & Sport

    “There were 6 games he scored 22 points or less. That’s 6 out of 16.”

    True dat! And as Sport posted the situations that occurred were costly!

    Situation: 2019 season…two games left…defense has finally stepped up largely because the trio of young DB’s started balling to help the pass D match the run D.

    We are all very excited 5-1 the second half of the season and a chance to finish the year on a very HIGH note and build for 2020. A chance for #3 to lead us to the promised land of a winning record. Expectations running high.

    Many here focus on the pick six in OT…a rookie kicker leaving nine points on the field…no mention of how many points JW left on the field that same game.

    Here is the bottom line…with a chance for a winning season…JW’s offense scores a whopping 3 points in the second halves of those last two combined.
    In fact it worse…after Gay’s kick in the 3rd Q of the Houston game the Bucs went scoreless in the final three quarters of the season.

    Oh but let’s blame it on the kicker!!! 2019 was supposed to tell us all we needed to know about JW. We know for a fact…that our vaunted offense scored 3 points in two second halves to end the season.

    Don’t want to blame the QB? Fine. The bottom line is that the QB is always held most accountable when an offense totally scrws the pooch. And a 30 million dollar QB is most certainly held accountable..not some poor scapegoated rookie kicker who scored the ONLY points the Bucs had in those two second halves.

  73. Ndog Says:

    So the snaps hitting him the side of the helmet are on him? The picks & fumbles where he is hit as he is throwing are on him? The balls OJ bats in the air or goes behind the back on are on him? I just wanted to make sure cause you sure live and die with that number. So you are clearly saying all 35 TOs are on Jameis Winston the QB? Is that correct?

  74. Ndog Says:

    Fine guys cut him but is the next QB going to run the ball, is he going to make FGs, he going to not be the 30th best pass defense in football? Is he going to help OJ hold onto the ball? I guess all you smart guys think so.

  75. Buc1987 Says:

    stpete…no mention of Winston losing TWO big weapons in Godwin and Evans to close out the (meaningless) season in your post.

    Sometimes I get Ndog….and understand his frustration with some posters.

  76. Ndog Says:

    So let’s get this straight on a team that cannot run the ball, make kicks and has 3 of it’s best 4 WRs down and oh yeah the QB is playing with a broken thumb you guys want to say the QB is to blame for us not scoring enough in the last two games? Well then heck if that’s the case let’s trade Evans and Godwin sign the great Andy Dalton put all the money on defense and we’d be all set right boys cause we don’t need any talent to score or running game or kicker just a guy that doesn’t turn the ball over so our great defense can win games 6 to 0 each week.

    Do you guys actually hear yourselves?

  77. JimmyJack Says:

    NDog you said the defense was horrific. So yeah that Cardinals game Don’t qualify.

    Sorry bud that’s just how it works when you come up clutch in crunch time and help carry the team to victory.

    Didn’t they give up stats? Yeah it happens to even the 49ers every once in a while.

    But the defense turned the game in the 4th on the pick and then shut them down on the final series to seal victory.

    Not great by any stretch but you called it horrific. That’s innacutate in my book.

  78. JimmyJack Says:

    So now your blaming the receivers getting hurt? Let me clue you in on something. The receivers had absolutely nothing to do with any of them picks in the Texans game. They were just awful throws.

    That was bad QB play no matter whose on the field. If we had trouble scoring points cause receivers can’t get open that acceptable. But if you think that was a good Quaterbacked game your out your mind dude.

    Bad is bad.

  79. Defense Rules Says:

    Ndog … “our defense at the beginning of the year was HORRIFIC not just “a couple of bad games”.

    It varied game by game Ndog & you know that full well since you listed certain specific games.

    o Defense only allowed 17 points in Game 1 against the 49ers (Jameis had TWO Pick-6’s) when we lost 31-17. But the defense also contributed 7 points to the offense via our own Pick-6. So our offense scored 10 points but gave away 14 points. That spells LOSS in just about anybody’s book.
    o Defense only allowed 12 points (4 FGs) in Game 2 against the Panthers (offense committed 1 safety and we won 20-14).
    o Defense stunk it up in the 2nd half of Game 3 against the Giants (a 32-31 loss), giving up 22 points in the 2nd half. Bucs’ offense didn’t help the cause much by having FOUR punts AND an INT in the 2nd half (plus the S/Ts missed FG).
    o Defense did give up 34 points to the Rams in Game 4, but they also contributed 7 points via a fumble recovery, not to mention forcing 3 OTHER takeaways that our offense capitalized on. Without those takeaways, we would’ve lost.
    o Bucs’ TEAM got whooped in Game 5 against the Saints 31-24 (wasn’t really as close as it sounds).
    o Defense actually played reasonably well in Game 6 in London when we lost 37-26, considering that the Bucs offense turned the ball over SEVEN times, resulting in some horrific field positions & putting us behind 34-10 to start the 4th qtr. Bucs giveaways led to at least 17 Panthers points BTW.
    o Defense also played well against the Titans in Game 7 (a 27-23 loss) but couldn’t overcome the FOUR giveaways from the offense (led to 2 TDs by the Titans).
    o Defense didn’t do all that well in Game 8 against the Seahawks (a 40-34 loss in OT), BUT the game was winnable in the 4th quarter … by the defense or by our offense. NEITHER of them rose to the occasion.

    Point being Ndog, the defense at the beginning of the year wasn’t really HORRIFIC at all, except in maybe 2 games. They were put in hole after hole by turnovers which obviously didn’t help our very young Secondary playing against some excellent offenses in the first half of the season … 49ers (#2), Saints (#3), Titans (#10), Seahawks (#9), and ya Rams (#11). Try to be at least a little more objective. As many have said quite often, it’s a TEAM game.

  80. Fb Says:

    If somehow jameis aka America’s Qi isn’t retained or signed to be a starter by anyone but joebucsfan, does that mean he will be America’s bust? Or can we just lose the asinine America’s moniker now?

  81. JimmyJack Says:

    And for the record I do want Winston back and believe he can play much better with a second year in this offense.

    But your just ridiculous acting like the problems we had at QB aren’t his fault. Somewhere out there in that brain of yours I gotta think that you know this guy has to play better then he did for much of 2019.

    Otherwise you just got very low standards of QB play. And you Don’t seem to care much about winning. At least not every week.

  82. JimmyJack Says:

    Thanks for listing all the games Defense Rules. It’s much better to look at the whole picture.

    And overall looking at them games it’s not good defense. Not winning defense.

    But when you look at the back half of the season it’s much different. They were stout and they were consistent. It was winning defense over a long stretch of games.

    We should be able to forget about them first 8 games because they were growing pains learning this system. The back half is who we are and what we can expect. We now got a defense we can win with. Our offense has to hold up their end and it starts with their leader.

  83. stpetebucsfan Says:


    And no mention of ROJO playing very well those two games…over 100 yards of offense…oh no all JW needed was a running game…

    As far as the top two targets..that would have been germane if Perriman hadn’t blown up. He had over 100 yards the final three games,,,the final two

    Game 15 7 catches 102yds 14.9 avg

    Game 16 5 catches 134 yards 26.8 avg

  84. Patrickbucs Says:

    Great recap DF Rules for (no statistical or accurate comeback) NDog. He sometimes makes some valid points but it’s never ever JW’s fault. Tiring.

    I was thinking the exact same thing, d was really good the first 2 weeks. Had some off/bad games for sure. That doesn’t tell the whole story though. SF gave up 20 plus points 9 of 16 games, not a great defense.

    Excited about the d, huge offseason though!

  85. Big Stinky Says:

    John Lynch just became GM of Bucs I think. Don’t know anything but I want another GM in Tampa right NOW. No more Chucky around but I need a QB like Burrow instead of Winstonites telling me what a QB is all the time. Buccaneers win in 2020 too with him and Glennon instead .JPP, Suh, and Shaq return obviously and let’s see all over. I don’t want to see a single stat on that obvious BUST in College. How many Super Bowl wins did he get again? Zero. I can even root for the defense to beat him up and Tampa wins again.

  86. Barlow Says:

    What we don’t want to do is waste all the talent we have in these young players like we have in the past. While theyre young and playing good we should provide them with a serviceable quarterback that does not turn the ball over as much but can still make some plays. I would hate to see their skills be wasted while we pick through trying find a qb. Bridgewater? Rookie? Jameis one more yr? Holy heart burn

  87. Sport Says:

    Defense – you da man…. Again.

    NDog – Stamin!! You are definitely one strong puppy. You are right in that you watch more games than most of us. I’m in it to enjoy it, that much effort might take away some of the fun. Serious question, have you dug into DVOA/DYAR? I’ve seen your knowledge and others on the other side recall plays and situations to match what you are stating. Impressive. But these two stats look at whole body of work. I’m more interfered in that approach (especially if I’m a decision maker on a potential $30M+ QB).

    As crazy as this group of fans is….I dig all you guys and gals.

    In BA I Trust!

  88. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Defense rules: well put, my friend, well put.

  89. Bucsfan951 Says:


    1. Yards: 274
    Tds: 1.68
    Int: 1.22

    2. Yards: 275
    Tds: 1.71
    Int: .89

    3. Yards: 259
    Tds: 1.66
    Ints: .76

    4. Yards: 231
    Tds: 1.45
    Ints: .81

    5. Yards: 242
    Tds: 1.52
    Ints: .65

    6. Yards: 253
    Tds: 1.73
    Int: .62

    7. Yards: 263
    Tds: 1.61
    Ints: .77

  90. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Here’s a crazy fact. 121 points were scored off of Winston turnovers alone. 121 POINTS!!! 7.5 points per game. Bucs d averaged like 28 points per game. Minus that 7.5 by NPUPPYS boy toy and that drops down to a manageable 21 points per game. Wow, that’s not too shabby!


  91. Big Stinky Says:

    It must be 2015 again I bet. Because ALL the stats go away with Burrow in that offense now. Pick 6 on your first pass huh SHAMELESS? You should NEVER do that as a QB. Or on your last pass of your CAREER as a Buccaneer either. Trade him to Cincinnati now! QUICK TOO!!! You KNEW what to do Malcolm? Buy my TEAM!!!! In 1993 I think someone told me that Marino was next in that offense. Instead of Mike Glennon 30/15 ratio too when he played. Marino is bound to Play Mahommes now at some point. No more Buccaneers. Winstonites unite now on any site I would read too. Because Koetter wanted Glennon then STUPID! I knew Koetter was in on ALL of this too. That Super Bowl still in Tampa at this point in 2020 cause I never said when his chance to shine is. The starting QB to do that in college. 60/5. Wow. Now is the time cause I know at LEAST he BEAT Clemson’s defense this year. No more stats in college now. Did that stuff really happen at FSU? Whenever, cause they never won anything Now. If those are the stats on a a Heisman winner. What did the Glazer’s do , BEAT the 49er’s or Marino’s team the Dolphins with a defense and that defense instead. John Lynch indeed but with how many years with the DEFENSE too.

  92. Tampabuscsbro Says:

    God Ndog why do you have to do this?

    Every day it seems like you come in here and tell people with completely legitimate points backing them up with facts they are idiots and brain dead that don’t know anything about football.

    Why I know you have a literal stalker tier shrine to Jameis Winston in your garage but come on man.

  93. Big Stinky Says:

    When exactly? Does DESTINY happen to someone now like him at FSU at all. No one like him would have ever been a Buc. What Super Bowl do I have to watch now for the Buccaneers. It better have been that one again. And what Mahommes finally does. Tampa MUST be next. I may not have been paying attention. Who is #47 if not Lynch and my defense drafting them. Rich McKay always wanted a long time here. Am I trading that for those players NEXT too? Who are Mahommes and the 49ers after Garapolo did that. Beat my GM Lynch and your one of the best GM’S to come. When is Lynch my GM. Who knows? But did Tampa Bay and you know who too. The Bucs are a team of DESTINY mofo’s and I know who ‘Big Stinky’ was. Warren Sapp you little Winstonites out there. Who was Jameis getting That tag? That Uber ride I put up with too long but I guess Cincinnati. What do I get in Winstonites future? That guy may not be developed after the Quarterback Tinkerer right bitch? Hell, no I can rambling on. But the Buccaneers are going to be winning Championship’s again. Like the Niners was the next time I ever see the whole picture. Who is Jason Gump Licht? Remember all those pics? The ones he Never bullchitted us about. Those DB’s we took. Yeah, I hope they’ll shine too. See you later SHAME

  94. TheJudge Says:

    Ndog wins in close decision. One issue not discussed is who is calling these plays when they know JW loves to toss picks on the first play of the game? Who thinks the Bucs can win with defense, and a strong legged but wildly erratic FG kicker and a conservative offense with no running game? Who made Hump and Brate big second contracts and will do the same for Perryman? Who says “no Risk it no biscuit”. JJ had a QB a great RB a great Wr and a shut down D — but no free agency and salary cap so he can talk about not putting up with this or that.
    Our defense made big strides due to Bowles teaching drafting and patience but you can’t pay for pass rush JPP Shaq stout run defense Suh a third wideout and a fA safety pay the rookie class and extend a second number 1 WR

  95. TheJudge Says:

    and Have a 30 mm QB. So pick your poison and draft well. 🏈

  96. Buczilla Says:

    I agree with Johnson, but if I’m Arians/Licht, I’m rolling the dice one more time with the franchise tag if Jameis turns down the 20 million he made in 2019. Sign a vet and draft a qb after round 1. Maybe the extra pressure will finally turn Jameis into a legit QB… Don’t laugh! Anything’s possible and the team/fans have so much invested in this dude. A couple of his crazy good games changed my mind on him, but my patience is just about tapped.

  97. BucFanDuh Says:

    I’m a fan of Winston, just not a fan of his price tag. I’d love to see some of his salary allocated to to the OL, and some to the defensive secondary. “Smart” fans see the 125 points off turnovers. “Intelligent” fans see rushed passes, poor catching, and a defense that cant stop another team from scoring. Negate the turnovers by giving the qb a chance to make better decisions. Build up the secondary, which will reduce the impact of turnovers. The bucs have a top notch run defense, because successful teams did not waste their time running. The bucs did not have a successful run offense, because their OL could not run block. This is a blatantly 1 dimensional team on both sides of the ball. The bucs rely on passing, so the opposing team will focus their defense on the pass. Sounds like the opposing defense did something right, since their focus was against the pass and the bucs run game was still a joke. Flip side, defense.. run defense was top notch.. but the pass defense was weak. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what to do in that situation. Toss the rock! Now in that regard… how many of these bucs fans are 1 dimensional in their criticism of Winston? I’ll call it like I see it, if you are stuck on his interceptions, then you are ignorantly one dimensional in your analysis. It’s why you aren’t all GMs… And it’s why you aren’t qualified to have an opinion.

  98. Jeagan1999 Says:

    In the NFL you don’t get “style points” for excitement! Saying we are the “most exciting bad team” in the league will get you about as far as saying a particular serial killer is the “nicest mass-murderer” on death row!

    W’s & L’s are all that matters, and I’d rather win a boring game 10-6, than lose an exciting one 38-35!

  99. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Duh: guess how many qbs threw the ball over 600 times last season? 5 of them. Winston was tied with Goff with 626 times. Guess how many ints the other 4 players had combined? 45 ints. So, let’s break this down for dummies like myself since you’re so qualified and smart. Let me see here… Winston with 30 ints, the other 4 of them combined for 45 ints. Winston with 626 throws/30 ints, the 4 others had over 2400 throws/45 ints.

    Yeah, man, you’re right! You are way smarter! I can’t believe us morons are hung up on ints. We shouldn’t have an opinion since, how do you put it, were not qualified.

    And pay Winston the price of an ol or db? Why would he sign that when another team would pay him more or he’d make more on the franchise tag? Also, why would you pay a franchise qb less than the franchise tag? Is he not good? Doesn’t he deserve an average salary for his position?

    Sorry for the questions. Us ignorant and under qualified fans just don’t have the brain power like your smart self.

  100. SteveK Says:

    Turnovers really do matter.

  101. tickrdr Says:

    @Defense Rules:

    As usual, a most excellent post!


    BTW: If the Bucs were down 34 – 10 vs. the Panthers in London to start the 4th qtr., but the final score was 37-26, aren’t those 16 4th qtr points when hopelessly behind, by definition, “garbage time” points?

  102. LordCornelius Says:

    “That’s nothing to sneeze at. Picks or no picks.”

    The picks were the difference between being ranked 18th in points given up vs 29th.

    That’s not adjusting for points off ALL turnovers…

    That’s just the additional turnovers we had above and beyond the NFL average….(41 vs 21 for the 16th ranked team).

    I’d rather have the 10th ranked scoring offense + 18th ranked scoring defense if that’s what we’d have to give up in scoring for the sake of some semblance of balance and not shooting ourselves in the foot every game.

  103. SteveK Says:

    Lord Corn,

    Great post and perspective. It is like shooting our selves on the foot and it’s obnoxiously painful to witness after five years. Every time Jameis drops back to pass, part of me cringes when he goes to throw bc I know he turns it over more than double the average going rate, so my expectations are adjusted accordingly.

  104. T REX Says:

    Worthless puppy getting smacked around again trying to defend his boyfriend.



    The king of meaningless stats. No one cares if you’re a loser like him.