Running Off A Good Player
January 17th, 2020
Record-setter.
Joe just doesn’t get it.
To read and hear Bucs fans go mental over Mr. Entertainment, America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, you would think this guy couldn’t throw a ball, complete a pass, or even take a snap from center.
Hell, Joe is convinced folks wanted Capt. Checkdown, Mike Glennon, more than Jameis.
The Bucs recently sent out their 2019 Year in Review and in that tome is listed new records set by players. Joe was slightly surprised to see Jameis’ name so prominently listed.
Among the team season records Jameis set this year include passing yards (5,109), passing and rushing yards combined (5,359), touchdowns (33), 300-yard games (11), passes attempted (626) and completed (380).
And people want to run him off??? Because they are hung up on one stat — one?! Just mindnumbing.
Joe honestly has to ask, what do you want in a quarterback, a guy that can move the ball or someone to excel in handing the ball off (to Peyton Barber up the middle)?
Joe is convinced half the people bellyaching about Jameis either played in wishbone offenses in high school or were Wing-T quarterbacks and are just unnerved watching anyone throw more than 15 passes in a game.
Yes, yes, yes, unless a team wins a Super Bowl it has needs. Looking at the Bucs after seeing all of those records Jameis set this past season, in Joe’s eyes, quarterback sure as hell ain’t a need.
Unless Jameis signs with the Bears.
Admit it: Whenever Jameis goes back to pass, you hear the clock from 24 thump in your head, don’t you?
January 17th, 2020 at 5:12 am
This site is infested with trolls. That’s the only explanation that makes any sense. The Bucs have been known for great defenses. For the first time in our history we have an offense ranked in the top five in the league. I can live with the interceptions after watching four decades of sh!t offenses.
January 17th, 2020 at 5:28 am
I like Winston, but i want to keep this defense. If he is want a top contract, i would let him go.
January 17th, 2020 at 5:29 am
Daily WinSTUNNED defense….yards baloney…it’s more than interceptions…doesn’t have the field vision, locks on primary receiver, careless with the ball, no rush awareness and just generally a very very average QB…
January 17th, 2020 at 5:31 am
Agree Joe and 1sparkybuc
The site has a ton of trolls.
The Bucs should resign Jamies!
January 17th, 2020 at 5:38 am
Breaking team records isn’t impressive unless your breaking the records of a team with a history of great offense and the Bucs don’t have that.
Turnovers are a HUGE stat, as they not only kill drives they give your opponent good field position, put your defense in a bad spot or give the opponent free points with pick 6’s.
Then there are the dumb decisions with the ball that kill drives. One day Joe will understand the game and position. Decision making is the biggest attribute of a QB and Jameis just isn’t good at it
January 17th, 2020 at 5:50 am
Turnovers and turnover margin aren’t where “good” offenses should be. It shows how inefficient lipid QB is with the ball.
More turnovers than touchdowns is not a good thing.
More bad than good and a recipe to not make the playoffs.
January 17th, 2020 at 5:55 am
If we can’t secure the ball better, then we will continue to lose with flare.
3 biggest contributors to winning football games:
1 points
2 turnover margin
3 field position
All of it pints scored come at an inefficient rate that cost us more to get then it should.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:05 am
And until you celebrate wins over stats you never will Joe.
28-42
January 17th, 2020 at 6:06 am
FAMOUS Is a good enough decision maker to lead the league in passing yardage, there are other parts to this team that has added up to losses by the BUCS that s season, the field goal kicker lost at least two games if not we playoff bound, the defense may have lost a game or two if not we are playoff bound…it’s a team game!! As a team they didn’t make the playoffs!! KEEP GRINDING FAMOUS. YEAR OF THE BUC 2020!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 6:08 am
How can someone complete as many passes as he did, throw as many tds and yards as he did and not have any “field vision” as you people spout off with the same mess???? You’re all broken records. This man has helped us have the best offense ever and you guys nit pick every little thing he doesn’t do to your liking. Do the interceptions need to come down??? Yes of course so stop acting like you’re a bunch of football savants because you’re not! You talk about the same thing ad nauseam it’s ridiculous. Even IF he cuts them in half and and throws 40 tds and gets us in the playoffs you will still find something to cry about. He could win the Superbowl and league MVP and you clowns would still bring up hassles, crab legs and uncharged assault charges.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:13 am
Sorry, but WRONG! Turnovers directly correlate to winning percentage.
“Since 1950, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of the time.”
70 years of data folks!
Yes, there are many factors that affect winning %, but I dare you to find one that is so consistently telling.
This is why Jameis is such an enigma. He can move the ball but he can also rip your heart out with untimely mistakes.
You cannot just simply brush aside these facts. They are indisputable.
The question remains. Can or should the Bucs overcome Jameis’ turnovers by signing him back? Can they? Sure, with a ground game and better talent around him. Should they? The price to keep him might negate the Bucs ability to sign other key free-agents.
Should he stay or should he go?
January 17th, 2020 at 6:14 am
Hey I am FSU guy obviously..Lol.. it was an issue in his last season at FSU & has continued to the BUCS. We did not win back to back for a reason.. with that said I feel like Jameis is our best option right now although I do understand the fans concerned with the turnovers. It is so frustrating to watch.. JIMBO used to chew him out on the sideline buy in college he was so much better he could overcome those turnovers. In the Pros the players & teams are more evenly matched & thus why TURNOVERS are so important. I hope he improves on the turnovers but his history has not given me reason yo be optimistic… Wish him
The best, GO BUCS!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 6:15 am
None on this board has the power to run off Jameis or anyone else. This board is only opinion and nothing more. Only the Glazers can “run him off”. I don’t think they will do that as the Bucs are only a few pieces away from the playoffs. How #3 was able to play with a broken thumb is pretty amazing to me. He can’t do worse than this season. I am looking for a much-improved quarterback. 2020 will be a roarin’ year for the Bucs
January 17th, 2020 at 6:17 am
It’s like saying I have a super hot wife, smart, great personality, loving mother BUT she cheats on me weekly. I should just ignore that ONE part of her? hahaha
I think people are seeing the D come together and realizing we don’t need a record setting QB. Just a game manager. But that’s why I’m an accountant and not an NFL GM.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:18 am
1sparkybuc says he can live with the interceptions… WOW, I guess he likes loosing too. SMH, I guess I am a troll now.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:21 am
It’s because of the offensive scheme is to why Jameis was able to reach 5000 yards even with the league’s lowest completion percentage. Find any strong arm with at least some accuracy and have him throw 50+ times a game and not give a sh|t about turnovers and you’ll find it’s easier than some might suggest. Even more so with todays pass interference rules.
Imagine a QB with even better accuracy. Imagine if Jameis had been closer to 70% completion rate like the top QB’s instead of 61%. Ironically the top five QB’s in passing yards this season all had losing records with the lowest passing total at 4333 yards. 5000 yards is more attainable today more than ever especially when you have the best receiving tandem in the league. 5000 yards are cool but yes that one glaring stat erases it all.
35 turnovers is no small matter and a major factor in why we lost.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:23 am
Whenever you ask someone who they want to replace him, there’s usually not a solid answer. Just get rid of him with no clear plan. These same people wanted to replace him with Fitz Magic. That would have worked out well. If you want to make a trade for an established vet or the #1 pick, you willing to give up Evans or Godwin? Almost guaranteed you’ll have to include one of them. Not opposed to making a trade if it’s the right deal. Think Jameis can’t get 15-20 mil? Did you see the idiotic contract Ziggy gave Kirk in Minnesota? Not even the Bucs are dumb enough to let him walk.
Also ask yourself if a QB is really going to put this team into Super Bowl contention. I highly doubt Tom Brady or Philip Rivers would want to come to Tampa.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:26 am
It’s the mental game. He just doesn’t have it. He starts the game with an int. The announcers are laughing at him. Something is not right upstairs. I’m guessing anxiety.
Turnovers combined with his off the field history. Majority of fans understand his good doesn’t outweigh his bad. A lot of people think off the field shouldn’t matter but the QB is the face of the franchise. Makes it hard to ignore for a lot of people.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:32 am
Imagine if Jameis was given a team like the titans or the niners with a run game and a defense how good he would be .A large number of fans are just too stupid to see. Even with 30 ints he would have won the division with that type of support. Its because hes black and took some.crab legs
January 17th, 2020 at 6:32 am
I’ll try to explain it Joe… It is about playoffs and SB’s… not just winning a handful of games. And Jameis can’t play more than a couple games in a row without a meltdown to some degree…and that isn’t a formula for championship football.
Secondly, how many games has Jameis taken in his own hands and put the team on his back to victory? Even guys like Stafford have a multitude of times…Jameis hardly ever.
And how many guys are one behavioral suspension away from a permanent ban? Not many.
How many guys are throwing these kind of Ints their fifth year, with one of the best pair of receivers in the league? None.
And how many demand top dollar for these things? Jameis.
And the Bears? Wouldn’t surprise me, because every time the get the D working, they bumble it with some sub par QB. And this would be right in character.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:34 am
BucEm…Jameis would still have a brain burp at an inopportune time and they would already be setting home, or likely lose the next game with some critical pick six at the worst possible time. And they don’t have the receivers we have in Evans, Godwin, Perriman and co.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:44 am
I’d prefer a quarterback that doesn’t routinely put us in a hole to start the game.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:50 am
Joe if you don’t get it than you must have Jameis’s jock strap covering your eyes. Yes when Jameis is on he looks like an amazing quarterback, but that’s only for a quarter of the games he plays because in those same games he makes boneheaded plays and gives the ball away to the other team. No defense in the league would look good with the kind of field position Jameis puts them in when he throws multiple interceptions in a game. Yes it’s a team sport but when your own defense knows that they have to clean up after their quarterback every single game then they start to get frustrated. At least I know I would be pissed if I was on the bucs defense and just nabbed an InT only to have Jameis give it away again. Come on!!!! It’s a team sport but this is the NFL you have to produce at a higher level anD DO YOUR JOB. JAMEIs’s job is to win football games not give them away. I just get upset with people trying to blame our defense who spends more time on the field than the offense because of jameis’s inability to secure the football and say they are the reason we lost games. I actually commend the defense for not giving up on Jameis and his stupid errant throws. If Jameis would just tuck the ball and run or throw the ball away he would be a way better quarterback but that’s just wishing.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:51 am
I love the Buccaneers and hate losing. Turnovers infect our chances of playoffs and winning games.
Look at the first half of the season in each of Jameis’ five years. He only won consecutive games once. Fitzmagic did t once too.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:54 am
“you would think this guy couldn’t throw a ball, complete a pass, or even take a snap from center.”
No I wouldn’t think that why do you? Have you lost any sense of objectivity?
It’s a sports blog and I get OPINIONS vary but the hyperbole and insults have grown weary and it’s mostly from the “blameless” crowd. So right out of the chute on this thread we are characterized as “trolls” SIMPLY because we have different opinions.
We are ALL BUCS FANS. I do not believe those who support “blameless” are any less fans than those ready to move on. Special acknowledgement to the “blameless’ supporters who haven’t lost their minds…notice that nice insult?
NDOG in particular has argued passionately…with stats and other evidence. He’s made his points without the need to name call other than perhaps in response to people who have called him names. I totally disagree with NDOG but I also TOTALLY respect him. Honorable mention to Stanglasman and Awshucks who have refrained from name calling and hyperbole like the one Joe just loffered.
This is NOT that complicated JOE!!!
“Blameless” clearly has arm strength, heart, courage…and he has all those glowing offensive stats…nobody denies that. So those who see that side as being the major factor believe in “Blameless”
“Blameless” also has horrible RECORD SETTING T.O. numbers to match his sparkling offensive stats. The other side of the “blameless” debate believes those t.o.’s are the major factor.
It’s really that simple. Two sides who both can admit the other’s point…I don’t think the rational posters like NDOG haven’t conceded that TO’s are bad just as the anti “blameless” side concedes he can throw the ball.
There is a subtext to these arguments. Can “blameless” FINALLY change his ways. Can the leopard change his spots?
That debate is also pretty simple…the side that claims he’ll improve his second year in BA’s system and he’s FINALLY figure it out after five years in the league.
Those ready to move on can understand the passion behind that argument but the “blameless” crowd needs to understand that many simply believe five years is enough more btw if you include FSU days…and they view it as asking a leopard to change his spots.
WE ARE ALL BUC FANS! Let’s disagree and if name calling entertains you fine…I’m not the blog cop and YMMV but for me…my hide is well worn so feel free to insult me…my only gripe is that name calling grows kind of boring.
Although I do concede it was either Doosh or Rod I think who asked if I’ve found the WIFI in the old folks home. BOOM. If ya gotta insult at least be creative!
January 17th, 2020 at 6:54 am
Joe, you can dismiss his turnovers all you want. Look at the final 4 QBs in the playoffs right now. Guess what, they didn’t turn the ball over. Even if Jameis makes it to the playoffs, he won’t string together enough wins to get a Super Bowl.
This is without a doubt one of your worst takes. If Doug Martin fumbled the ball 30 times, you would’ve called for his head, and he would’ve been cut because that’s accountability.
Jameis put up crazy yards. Great. He also gave away multiple games, as he’s done all his career. There’s nothing more to see here
January 17th, 2020 at 6:56 am
That’s because Buc fans as a whole are masochists. They LOVE to to be bad so they can continue to bitch. They loath success and hate good players. Unless they give out ice cream then they are ok.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:01 am
It’s lake being ina marriage with someone who is the total package, sans one major, major flaw: lying, cheating, etc. it’s not ok to live like this (Turnovers).
At a discount rate, come back for a year- Jameis- at $30 million- enjoy the Bears or whomever will pony up that kind of cash only to be sadly disappointed with the epic amount of turnovers.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:01 am
People who judge QBs by wins have sub-100 IQ’s…
January 17th, 2020 at 7:03 am
AwShBucs,
Why insult those of us who value wins?
I would bring s counterpoint:
Those who ignore record level turnovers and excuse it for a lot of yards and points are blind. Jameis averages 8ppg for the opposing team.
What’s wrong with starting turnovers contribute greatly
To losses? Not trying to insult your intelligence and I wish you could lay out “why” fans like myself are wrong? I see turnovers coming at s rate more the touch downs and that unacceptable. And we are 7-9.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:05 am
AwShbucs Says:
January 17th, 2020 at 7:01 am
People who judge QBs by wins have sub-100 IQ’s…
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^that’s a troll
January 17th, 2020 at 7:07 am
See SteveK…there you go again. The next thing you will be saying is that the team with the most turnovers usually lose games…..what? They do? Nevermind.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:11 am
The Bears? LOL.. yeah…we know how progressive minded and willing to live with multiple turnovers most fans of “da bears” are. My cousin would love the BS Jameis has been pulling the last few years. Only don’t tell me that I should allow my grandkids in the room when he elaborates on the play of Jameis and the decision to sign him. It would take years to overcome the shock of that creative blue streak of comments by him after a few spotted cows.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:11 am
All of this stat driven JayMiss love is BS!
5109 yds and 33 TDs won you 7 games. 28 total in 5 full NFL seasons.
33 INT and 7 Pick 6 lost you 9 games this season alone.
Unless being the founding member of the 30-30 Club counts, the only way JayMiss gets into the HOF is to buy a ticket with some of the cash he’s already stolen from the Glazer family.
Those aren’t playoff worthy numbers.
Let him walk already!
Peace, out
January 17th, 2020 at 7:11 am
The QB is the most important position. Just think if Lavante David dropped 30 passes that went straight to him. Ppl would be upset that we could have had a turnover, at least if he caught half of them….
Jameis is reckless, you will lose this defense if he keeps doing it! He is reckless with the ball, end of story!! You cab’t deny that….
January 17th, 2020 at 7:11 am
Steve K..it doesn’t matter if “you” compare turnovers to losses.
Truth is a missed FG prevented us from being 8-8.
But troll opinions don’t really matter.
Winston is going to be back in 2020, for 1 big reason.
The 2020 schedule.
Look at that schedule, with a rookie QB, we could lose every game..this year we had some guaranteed wins, but next year there might be 1 guaranteed win.
Bringing Winston back and him throwing 35 Interceptions and 35 TDs will not get BA fired, but a new quarterback with 5 wins, probably will.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:12 am
Mark2001,
Turnovers and fast starts to your season are keys to success. Both have been issues under Jameis.
We better keep the defense together and let Jameis rest the market. I bet no one offer more than $20.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:14 am
So if Jameis broke the team record for attempts, shouldn’t he be expected to break the yards and completion records.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:15 am
Justafan
Good point about the kicker.
My point is- when the QB turns it over so, so much it puts added pressure on other players to perform and allows less room for error. Why does Jameis get a pass for screwing up more than anyone, and a rookie- 5th rounded gets crucified? Why don’t fans take the 5th year- former number 1 overall pick status into consideration?
If anything, a top draft pick in year five should have more expectations than a rookie 5th rounder. Right?
January 17th, 2020 at 7:15 am
Justa a … newsflash… three field goals are 9 points spread out during the game… yes it is terrible… but the ebb and flow of the game changes strategies and such. They are missed opportunities. A pick six gives the other team 7 points. A pick six in overtime is lethal. But you can’t get that?
So you are saying our kicker was almost as bad at times as Jameis? Yes. But he doesn’t touch the ball every offensive play, nor does he want 30 mil. Nor is he a fifth year starter.
You don’t see the difference?
January 17th, 2020 at 7:16 am
It’s about the money…..and about trust…
The question Joe should ask is ……..who would give Jameis a multi-year big payday?
I’m OK with a franchise or transition tag.
Focus on this…..the 4 QBs in the Championships have a combined total of 28 interceptions this year……2 less than Jameis……the interceptions are just a problem….they are a huge problem.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:17 am
aren’t just a problem….
January 17th, 2020 at 7:18 am
The answer is in your title Joe. Running off a good player, not a GREAT player. NFL teams do that all the time.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:19 am
Steve…yes…the D is the number one priority. And frankly, with a above average game manager at QB, a drafted quality RB, possibly replacing Dot, and with the receivers we have? Should be playoff bound.
I expect those young corners to just get better and better.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:20 am
Frankly,with these receivers we have, even Johnny football could look good.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:29 am
It’s not that I think Jameis is terrible QB – I just think 30 million can be better spent elsewhere. He just has proven to be a top 10 quarterback. He is average at best and this is with the top duo WRs in the league.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:37 am
Trolls- it’s 1 year with 30 int. He’s averaged 16 the rest of his career. Give him another season in this offense…. I can definitely live with 33-16. Everyone talks about not winning games. The second half of the year he went 5-3 with the defense playing better. Now give him a running back. I guarantee if he goes somewhere else he will excel and we will regret it as usual
January 17th, 2020 at 7:39 am
The Bucs would have gone 7-1 in the last half of the season if Evans and Godwin had stayed healthy. Given a decent defense, the Bucs can win games with Jameis.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:40 am
33-16. Off the top of your head? Who knows… but we do know he will “Keep ballin'”.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:43 am
Refusing to overpay for a product is considered “running off” now. For the right price, I’m sure the Bucs will keep Mr Pick-6. You forgot to mention the 30-30 record he added. Franchise Mr Pick-6. Draft or sign a real, legitimate, potential starter and allow true competition. Losing other key members to keep Mr Pick-6 long term at this point is stupid, IMHO. If looking over his shoulder is enough to rattle him, then I don’t want him. That’s just a JV attitude.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:43 am
Sparky… you have no idea that would be the case. Where you guys come up with these things…. And if Jameis wasn’t near sighted, I’d bet he could see much better on those long passes…what next?
January 17th, 2020 at 7:47 am
Joe,
I give you permission to wish for better than 30 interceptions.
I give you permission to wish for better than 20 interceptions.
I give you permission to wish for better than 15 interceptions.
I give you permission to wish for better than 10 interceptions.
Joe I give you permission to wish for better than Jameis.
January 17th, 2020 at 7:57 am
Cardiac Arrest Joe has a hard on for Jameis… Its almost down right disturbing how he constantly defends him even when he makes some of the most bone headed plays you could ever witness… 5 YEAR IS ENOUGH!!
January 17th, 2020 at 7:57 am
Clueless Joe
Watch these playoff QBs protect the ball
Jameis will never be a playoff winning qb
January 17th, 2020 at 7:59 am
Nothing wrong with valuing wins. Logically there is a lot wrong pinning the the full responsibility for a 53 man team on one singular player.
Turnovers are correctable. Wtf is wrong with letting a talented, otherwise incredibly productive player, develop?
January 17th, 2020 at 8:03 am
5 years and still developing? … into what?
January 17th, 2020 at 8:04 am
JOE, YOU LEFT OUT HIS RECORD SETTING PICK 6’S AND THE FIRST MEMBER OF THE 30/30 CLUB.
HE’S A LOSER AND YOU STAT-TARDS CARE MORE ABOUT YARDS THAN WINS.
YOU ARE THE TROLLS.
BUCS>ANY PLAYER OR COLLEGE TEAM
FSU STINKS AND HE’S YOUR LAST CONNECTION TO YESTERYEAR.
MOVE ON LOSERS.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:08 am
70 career starts and still developing? Ha ha ha ha ha omfg the excuses for this kid are hilariously awful at this point
January 17th, 2020 at 8:08 am
5 years and still developing? … into what?
______________________________
answer = overpaid millionaire
January 17th, 2020 at 8:10 am
Prior to the draft Jameis was hailed as the “most Pro Ready QB since Andrew Luck”
He was hailed as a QB with a high football IQ
But fans here say he’s still developing ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha omfg the stupidity on this site by Clueless Joe and the Jameis nut huggers is too much comedy for me
January 17th, 2020 at 8:11 am
They conveniently left off his NFL records he set this year, like being the first 30/30 guy and 7 pick-sixes.
“Joe just doesn’t get it” – We know. Those of us that have been with your site since the beginning are well aware.
That “one” little measly stat that quite a few of us are concerned about, it just so happens to be probably the single most important stat for a QB. Open your damn eyes and look at this from a team perspective and not as a fan boy.
The other 52 guys on this roster are being harpooned by one player. It doesnt matter what they do for 59 minutes and 59 seconds, Winston is capable in 1 second of blowing it all up. Most QB’s on every roster in the NFL are capable of throwing jump balls to Pro-Bowl recievers, and if you think it works in the other direction and Winston makes Evans and Godwin look good, then you truly “don’t get it”.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:14 am
Joe you are an educated man about football
DO YOU watch Winston’s throws Wobbling like he is playing sand lot
Stares down receivers I.e. being picked off. INT will increase as the backs watch film and have learned this about Winston
Throws behind receivers NO YAC because of Winston not Evans or Godwin
By the way two of the best receivers in NFL
Winston has some great STATS. The problem is Stats when your sitting home in Jan are about as exciting as watching Flies mate
You scream STATS STATS
Fans scream WIN WIN
Winston has had 5 years he is not changing in fact one stat got worse but we can mention that one or we are HATERS
January 17th, 2020 at 8:19 am
When Winston throws 36 ints in 2020. You can thank Joe for this.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:20 am
And people want to run him off??? Because they are hung up on one stat — one?! Just mindnumbing.
———————————————————————-
People want to run him off because they don’t like him. The reason people get excited about following sports because of how emotional we get following teams, players, and games. Nobody would follow sports if the games and players didn’t move us. The baggage he came with, the Uber thing, his lack of self awareness/humbleness at times….he strikes an emotional chord in some fans that involve anger and disgust. For better or worse, fan’s interpretation of a player’s character matters. At least to a good portion of fans. It is what it is.
Obviously, the Joes have some kind of idea about everything stated above. The ridiculous monikers given to Winston on this site stir up all the fans that don’t like him and drives up the website traffic, and certainly drives up the amount of comments. Which I guess is great for Joebucfan business.
But let’s not pretend it is just interception numbers, or his play on the field, that is only factor why many fans want him gone.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:22 am
To read some of Joes article you would think he is Winstons agent. Just keep bringing up 5000 yds. That way the enormous amount of picks, fumbles and errant plays seem like minor shortcomings. Joe has a heavy case of fan apathy going on.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:27 am
Technically fans are hung up on three stats….
1. Wins
2. Games in the playoffs
3. Turnovers
To constantly reference passing yds and stats as the sole focus is shows a complete misunderstanding of what “fans” value. Nobody buys tickets to watch a game and count passing yds. Nobody leaves the stadium thrilled we had 400 yds passing even though we lost. Fans watch to be a part of winning….to have a chance at the Super Bowl by making the playoffs. The stadium wasnt packed at the end of another lost season to watch “team records” reached…..Nobody cares about that, in fact the stadium is depleted because folks are exhausted watching the accumulation of garbage yards after countless turnovers.
So will Winston go on to have even more yards elsewhere…..its possible. Will he win, doubtful and if you’re not able to consistently win, you become Ryan Fitzpatrick, bouncing around filling a hole during a rebuild until you can be replaced or wear out your fan base…..which is exactly where we sit now. Folks are worn out with Winston. You wont win with him consistently. The Jaguars pulled a rabbit out of a hat with Blake Bortles for ONE season….then he came back to earth and they cut the cord. Winston might catch lightning in a bottle one season but he’s not doing it year after year after year.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:29 am
You see Joe, he sucks on and off the field. That’s why we hate him
January 17th, 2020 at 8:32 am
1 stat joe?….lol…
nawl….try 3….
INTs…
Fumbles…
Loses…
obviously being entertained is more important to joe than being a winner….lol…
who needs to win games when you’re throwing for 5k yards right?….lol…
GO BUCS!!!!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 8:34 am
Yeah because no other starting caliber QBs ever took a while to fully develop?
You bums expose yourself on a regular basis. Clearly you guys have ZERO knowledge about the history of this game and the players who have played it.
Yes he has 70 career starts, but still is just 26 years old. Midway through Joe Burrows Rookie season he’ll already be 24.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:37 am
JW deserves one more year and one more year ONLY in Arians system. If he can’t reduce his turnovers then we need to move on.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:37 am
Ive said it once, I’ll say it 1000 times…
People who judge QBs by wins have sub-100 IQ’s.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:48 am
The turnovers are a problem. Let’s imagine for a moment we had a RB that had 32 TD runs and 30 lost fumbles. Would we be worried? A turnover is a turnover and they are bad lol.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:49 am
OK, so OBVIOUSLY this is FSU JOE writing this trash. “Run him off because of ONE STAT??”….so, FSU JOE, is THIRTY INT’s and SIX PICK SIXES are “acceptable”…how aobut 35 INT’s and 8 PICK SIXES? Still OK for FSU JOE??? What about that annoying little stat called WINS??? FSU JOE, indeed.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:50 am
Oh, and FSU JOE? Let’s ignore his off the field crapola, because “that’s history”…right?
January 17th, 2020 at 8:50 am
Look at Jameis’s contemporaries who’ve been drafted within a year or two of him. They aren’t taking as long to develop and show development from year to year
They have less starts, protect the ball better and don’t put their teammates in a bad spot by making tons of mistakes
Being young isn’t a positive if you aren’t showing growth. Young means potentially he could get better but after 5 years it’s hard to say he’s getting better.
I feel like some of these Jameis slurpers dont is arch any other QBs
January 17th, 2020 at 8:51 am
We’re talking about the bucs, theres never been a quarterback in place this long. For all the stats being thrown out here about winston there is only one that defined the season for him. 30 turnovers and a 7-9 season. You sounded the alarm. And made jokes about the season he was having all year long now you are selling fans that winston is the only guy out there that can have a good season in this offense is winston. The only issue anyone has with him is interceptions. That great year led us to 7-9 pick 6’s are even worse we would have beaten 49’s if not for interceptions.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:53 am
There are alot of racists in this city and Gator fans, I leave it to you to split the difference
January 17th, 2020 at 8:53 am
I’ll admit I’ve had games that Jameis just drove me absolutely crazy & I’m a day 1 fan. But in Tampa’s history, the one & only thing you could hang your hat on was someone on defense was pretty good or awesome, but NEVER on offense. I know we’ve had some really good offensive players but far too often they were only offensive. Anyone remember or read about QB’s like Mike Rae, Gary Huff or Randy Hedberg with the slogan “Why not from Minot”? For all you “millennials” who want instant everything you never had to suffer thru those QBs & many, many more (I must add Vinny Testaverde’s 35 Ints to only 13 TD’s in 1988, in 15 games he missed a game try being a FAN thru that!). Also our history has been “draft’em & send’em” out into the world of the NFL to be great players elsewhere. I know it sucks watching Jameis throw a pick or pick 6, but with Jameis you know that your ALWAYS in a game. Get down by 24 like KC did last week vs Houston a team like Tennessee ain’t coming back from that, but Jameis can. This isn’t the year to draft a QB, the following year there will be a bunch of really good QBs that will be draft eligible. Lets give BA his second year with Jameis, but more importantly lets give Jameis his 2nd year in BA’s offense. We’ve all heard by now the Carson Palmer interview (and if you haven’t look it up) we need to see how good this kid can be with a real running game & hopefully this defense back like in the last 6 games & a kicker. I happen to like our kicker & believe we finally have a consistent one. If Jameis ever gets runningback close to what Payton Manning had to use play action off of, look out passing records & playoffs! Payton had a HOF RB in M. Faulk with 1319 yards his rookie year & E. James gave him 1553 & 1709 in his 2nd & 3rd years. All I’m trying to say is let’s try being patient for once as Bucs fans instead of throwing the QB (baby) out with the bath water. Go Bucs!
January 17th, 2020 at 8:54 am
Winston cant take less than market value. Agent wont let him teams will pay it. Tampa should pay it. 31-32 mil sounds like a lot. However give him a 3 year deal. see how it plays out next year. See if his issues are fixed. If not trade him year two. Teams will take him. He’ll still be in his 20’s and a team will take him.
Chargers, Indy, Denver, Patriots, Browns, Oakland/Vegas, Washington, We may even be able to swap for Goff IDK if he still cant read defenses or not. Im sure Bucs fans dont care as long as they get rid of Winston.
We are the only group of fans that are willing to give up a 5000 yd passer who set offensive records throws ints to draft a group of 5 QB, that didnt lead his team to much of anything and threw a ton of INTs to inferior competition that may never play in the NFL, in the 1st round.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:55 am
Anyone who thinks the Bucs would have lost to Houston and the fowlgoons even with Evans and Godwin, is delusional. The Bucs would have finished 7-1 in the last half of the season if they stayed healthy. No team can lose two pro bowl receivers and not be negatively effected.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:58 am
What are we suppose to judge a QB by?….looks?….yards?….lol….
obviously someone never played sports….lol….
if it aint about wins i guess trent dilfer is better than brett favre…..i guess jamarcus russell is better than tom brady….
“This is the greatest thing about sports – you play to win the game. Hello? You don’t play to just play it. When you start telling me it doesn’t matter, then retire, get out, because it matters.”-Herm Edwards
bye!!!!…get out!!!!!….haul @$$!!!!!
GO BUCS!!!!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 8:59 am
There is no viable option to move on to. We’re kinda stuck with him until a better option comes along. Why would you get rid of him when we’ve got nothing else?
January 17th, 2020 at 9:01 am
If you hear a lie often enough, you start to believe it. The trolls on this site have been around for years, leading true fans astray.
Jameis will be a Buccaneer in 2020.
January 17th, 2020 at 9:04 am
Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:
“Being young isn’t a positive if you aren’t showing growth.”
He has shown growth.
Also, the team has needed to be built around him…like the defense.
January 17th, 2020 at 9:06 am
I’m fine with keeping him, but on an extremely short leash at a reasonable price (no more than $23M). The first time he has a multiple TO game, he’s benched and doesn’t come back in until his backup starts to play like crap. If he throws a single pick-6, then he’s on the trade block.
I don’t give a rat’s butt about him throwing for huge yards, I want wins. He has cost us A LOT of games over the years and really not seen any consequences from it. He no longer deserves to have any slack in the leash, period.
January 17th, 2020 at 9:07 am
Joe
You are correct.
You just don’t get it.
Never have
January 17th, 2020 at 9:13 am
I still say transition tag or let him walk or run.
January 17th, 2020 at 9:16 am
813…
You Judge a QB by passing metrics and performance. You judge a TEAM by wins. Wins are a team stat buddy.
As for the Trent Dilfer/ Jamarcus Russell comment, wtf are you talking about?
January 17th, 2020 at 9:16 am
ArmandoG Says:
January 17th, 2020 at 8:53 am
There are alot of racists in this city and Gator fans, I leave it to you to split the difference
SO, in your Seminole brain, most of the fans are racists or Gators. How nice. I am neither, sir…….and I would venture to say the same for all the others that want Winston gone. You sound like JP Peterson, who once proclaimed the same thing. Now HE wants Winston gone. And he ain’t a Gator.
January 17th, 2020 at 9:32 am
AwShbucs Says:
January 17th, 2020 at 9:16 am
813…
You Judge a QB by passing metrics and performance.
*************************************************************
maybe in the PAL league….lol…
performance = wins or loses….lol….
perform poorly and you’ll have poor results=L
perform great and you’ll have great results=W
passing metrics?…..please elaborate….lol….
GO BUCS!!!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 9:41 am
What good is 5k yards when you win only 7 games?
January 17th, 2020 at 9:48 am
Wake up and smell the turnovers.
January 17th, 2020 at 9:48 am
Give the man the 30M guaranteed, but for each interception he throws, it should cost him 500K 😀
January 17th, 2020 at 9:52 am
Joe,
I am hung up on one stat – WINS AND LOSSES. Winston doesn’t win enough games. The last game against Atlanta was about more that an interception. It was Winston’s chance to put the team on his back and drive the team down the field for a game-winning drive. He FAILED. He’s a backup in this league. I’m sorry that your feelings are hurt that we all don’t love him because of his stats, but stats aren’t WINS. WINS get us to the SUPERBOWL.
@Kord – you are 100% correct. The yards mean nothing with 7 freaking wins.
January 17th, 2020 at 9:55 am
I love when fans say give Jameis a running game. The Bucs don’t want a running game. If they did, they would’ve drafted O line, great running back. Since Licht took over as GM he’s built this team to pass the ball. First ever pick, a receiver. Next years first pick, Jameis. He passed on a RB, Kamara, for another receiver. The Bucs put up those passing yards because they throw the ball more then they want to run it. Arain’s isn’t a patient man. He doesn’t want a ding, dunk offense, that runs the ball, and takes 11 plays to score. He wants big chunks, bombs away, quick strikes. Fun to watch, until your QB turns it over, and you keep losing. What Arains doesn’t realize is, offenses like the Titans wear defenses out with the running game. They control the clock, keep the opponents offense off the field, and don’t put their defense in a whole by “keep slinging it”. This is not a winning Formula in todays NFL.
January 17th, 2020 at 9:58 am
Oh ok. Now I understand, so when a QB throws for 400 yards and 4 touchdowns and loses, like Jameis against the Falcons in 2018, that means he performed poorly!
This is what i mean by you having a sub-100 IQ for subscribing to that set of beliefs…
Passing metrics consist of yards generated, touchdowns thrown, yards per attempt, percentage of yards through the air, big time throw percentage etc…
January 17th, 2020 at 9:59 am
Lol Joe. There’s only one person in this country that knows his audience better than Joe knows his.
January 17th, 2020 at 10:03 am
Look at the teams in the playoffs…they don’t have a turnover machine at QB. Jameis thinks he deserve $30 million….well top rates QBs turnover less that 2 percent Jameis is above 4 percent. I seriously don’t think the team can be consistent if the QB is the most inconsistent. I have a bigger problem with him thinking he is worth $30 million a year when 3 of our losses fell pretty firmly on his shoulders. Maybe our kicker is worth $30… he lost 2 or 3 games. If Jameis would play for a reasonable salary and we had a serviceable back…no problem.
January 17th, 2020 at 10:09 am
What is mind numbing is 5 years of mistake plagued football . You need to create a new thread. The Apologist!!!!!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 10:12 am
You don’t make the playoffs with Stats, Right, Clueless?
January 17th, 2020 at 10:19 am
Joe – thank you for the article. It was helpful for me, not because it was the first time I heard about JW’s prolific year or that you failed to mention the record breaking turnovers. It’s because those stats are meaningless. As pointed out by previous posters, most of the yardage leaders are watching the playoffs. But that’s not even the biggest reason for my clarity.
It’s called situational football. How did you play when it was on line? This goes for all plays and every player, not just QB. Guys who make plays when the situation is elevated are ballers. Not self described by your QB because we have to come back.
When JW did put us in position, which he did well a few times this year, his kicker or D did not play well in the elevated situation. You don’t get a lot of them in a year and they are nearly impossible to recreate in practice. So, I give our rookie kicker room to improve next year. The D was solid in the second half.
This is why I am ok with JW coming back.
In BA I Trust!
January 17th, 2020 at 10:21 am
The one stat that counts the most is wins.
January 17th, 2020 at 10:32 am
The Bucs will never win a Super Bowl with Jay-Miss under center. That’s all that should matter. He is the Dominique Wilkins/Carmelo Anthony of the NFL. Amazing looking stats but ultimately does not do the *other* things that lead teams to championships.
January 17th, 2020 at 10:34 am
“all the team in the playoffs have QB’s that dont turn the ball over”
No all the teams that made the playoffs except 2 had top 15 scoring defenses and top 15 in yards allowed per game. While also being top 15 in scoring offense.
If the defense complimented the offense at all in the first have of the season besides the two horrible games against the Panthers and Saints Tampa would have made the playoffs. Had the kicker shown up for the 2 games we needed him Tampa probably would have made the playoffs. Had the refs not be atrocious Tampa probably would have made the playoffs. That’s with 30 ints. So if he cuts down on those and the Defense picks up where it left off and Gay becomes more consistent Tampa will make the playoffs next year.
4 games Winston didnt throw an interception and the team went 2-2. Please drop the narrative that his INT’s are the reason we dont make the playoffs. When he didnt throw INTs Tampa was .500. Not good enough to make the playoffs. I wonder why we were 2-2 in those games
January 17th, 2020 at 10:39 am
It’s a money question at this point…Not a talent question.
Do you pay JW3 & keep faith that he will continue to mature into the seasoned signal-caller that his potential & 1st 5yrs of stats tells us he COULD be???
I think the FO will try to get him back on a reasonable deal.. (10th highest paid QB in the league – kind of money)…But if it takes Franchising him, you do that to keep him at least 1 more yr….See if there’s the 2nd yr maturation that other BA QB’s have made.
Yes, other FA QB’s could succeed in BA’s system…But JW3 has a yr in it now & a whole off-season to go through his tape. So does his primary WR corps…One could see off-season film study provide a 20-30% decrease in read driven mental mistakes by both WR/QB…And 2020 could be a script flip & trajectory change from the last decade. (Bucs could see jump to 11-5 / out side shot at 13-3 kind of season in 2020.)
January 17th, 2020 at 10:39 am
I would like to see James in a baseball uniform staring down the catcher instead of staring down receivers and throwing pick sixes. Interceptions cause great field position for your opponent and momentum. Not to mention bringing a tired defense back on the field and destroying moral. That is what interceptions do.If James could cut his interceptions in half and eliminate pick sixes bring him back. Unfortunately I don’t think James can do it. I wish he could.
January 17th, 2020 at 10:39 am
Precisely, sport. This is where the Football Outsiders metrics of DVOA and DYAR come in handy. Two QBs throw 15 yards on 3rd down. Which one was better? There is a way to measure that and put context to a QBs performance. In other words, there is such a thing as garbage stats and Jameis is the king of piling up garbage stats. He lead the league in passing yards but when it comes to the Football Outsiders stats it shows he’s a bottom tier QB behind the likes of Gardner Minshew, Kyler Murray, and Ryan Fitzpatrick.
Unreasonable Joe will never write a story about that.
January 17th, 2020 at 10:44 am
Every defensive back can make all of the throws, that is not what a QB is about.
A QB is about making the right decision on the fly. Jameis can’t do that. As a matter of fact, he can’t even do it with a scripted play. He threw interceptions on the first drive four times. The first drive is scripted and worked on all week.
It seems more like he ants to run himself off by screwing up in every game. Some of those games he screwed up worse than anything I have ever seen and I coached peewee football.
January 17th, 2020 at 10:45 am
Jw is just too good to be spooning around and caring what the fans might think. Sign him now. Come on man. I will not buy tickets until he is resigned and if he doesnt I’m not buying tickets
Fans best knowledge of any football comes from Madden Mobile
January 17th, 2020 at 10:49 am
@AwShbucs
Many QB’s take a while to develop? Explain to me then how almost every QB drafted in the 1st round SINCE Winston was drafted #1 overall is developed beyond Winston? The 5000 yards and 32 passing TD’s mean nothing today. Pat Mahomes did that in his first year as a starter. Did all of these guys step into perfect situations, or did most of them have a stronger football aptitude than Winston? Winston was the right pick in the draft that he was in and given the Bucs needs at the time. As things turned out, the QB’s at the top of that draft were fools gold. That needs to be recognized and the snowball effect needs to be stopped. The Titans realized that and are one game away from the Super Bowl.
If you have a QB that was the #1 overall pick and after five years we are still hoping he develops good habits with the ball, you have a serious problem. At some point this needs to be accepted as “we tried and it didn’t work out” and move on and quit wasting time and careers of the actual good players that are on this team.
Check the sub-100 IQ bullsh!t at the door if you can’t see the issue here.
January 17th, 2020 at 10:50 am
Clodhopper:
Great reference. HeeHee
January 17th, 2020 at 10:52 am
I want the Buc’s to WIN.
Can’t do that if you THROW the game away.
Can’t do that if you pay too much on a bad player.
INTS and should-have-been-INTS = loser
January 17th, 2020 at 11:06 am
So take this with a grain of salt, but…The other day I had a chance to talk to an NFL executive in town for the Shrine game. (His team absolutely does not need a QB and is not in our division, plus I’m not involved in the NFL, so he had no reason to spin me.) He claimed there’s no way the Bucs will resign Jameis to a huge contract because of the TO problem, which he believes is unsolvable, and that no other team will be willing to pile huge sums of cash on his doorstep for the same reason. He also believes the Panthers and Bucs, in that order, are gonna make a huge push to obtain the Bengals pick in order to draft Burrow. The Bengals need way more than a QB and may listen to a solid package of players and picks. Personally, I’m skeptical but thought it was interesting enough to share.
January 17th, 2020 at 11:07 am
You see if you want a better QB you are a troll.. Got it..
January 17th, 2020 at 11:11 am
CHERRY PICK! CHERRY PICK! Joe, you are saying we are looking at one stat (turnovers). Well, you are only looking at two stats (yards and TDs)… and they do not paint an accurate picture of his season. If you want to look at his stats, we can also point to his completion %, which was 28th in the league. We can also look at DVOA (a very useful and telling stat used by many) for which he was 25th. Now, look at the teams that made the playoffs. Were they throwing for the most yards and TDs? No, they are the teams with best turnover ratios. 10 of the top 11 teams in turnover ratio made the playoffs. Only ONE in the bottom half of the league in this stat made the playoffs (the Eagles, and they only made it because of a weak division). Now, ready for the kicker? NONE of the top 5 QB in yards thrown made the playoffs. ZERO. NADA. So you see, once again, you are blind to the reality of the league and our QB situation.
January 17th, 2020 at 11:24 am
Jameis just threw another pick 6
January 17th, 2020 at 11:25 am
Gotbbucs…
Yeah ok. Paxton Lynch, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Daniel Jones, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Mitchell Trubisky, Dwayne Haskins and Josh Rosen all came into the league and were instant winners who are better than Jameis….
In reality, their are 5 1st round QBs you can argue are better than Jameis. Pat Mahomes and DeShaun Watson who were drafted to playoff teams. Jared Goff who was traded up for by a .500 team and he looked like a surefire bust before McVay the offensive genius got his hands on him. And Carson Wents who was traded up for by a 7-9 team that went on to win a SB with his back up.
Jameis on the other hand was drafted to a 2-14 team that was at the time the worst roster in the league.
January 17th, 2020 at 11:28 am
LMAO Do these Nut swingers even hear themselves?
Somebody namesd Sleepy proceeded to name off basically every aspect of the team and said we would of made the playoffs if all these other aspects of the team played better…. Even with the 30INTs… Well No SH!T! LMAO
So we are suppose to ignore the terrible turnovers because the rest of the team could of played better? LMAO the stupidity is astounding.
And let me get this right. The Nut swingers like Joe dont want a Captain Checkdown, they just want Winston to not throw so much, get a better running game, OLine, Defense, and Kicker. The sure does sound like a Captain Checkdown type QB…. Oh and still pay the guy like a franchise QB. Am I the only one that finds this contradiction hilarious?
January 17th, 2020 at 11:30 am
Being an out of state fan, since 1979 at age 12, I have to say the local fans are some of the worse. All the keep this D together were probably all of the “stick carriers” from a few years back. Expect the owners to freely spend when you fall off the wagon by week 4. Funny how most other small-market teams are still able to keep stadiums mostly full and not another home game for the visitors.
Having never signed a QB draftee has not worked well for the illustrious offense of the past 40 years. I loved the defenses of the past and would love to see a resurrection. I have to say watching 3 and outs over and over along with turnovers was very frustrating to watch. Brutal to watch our D holding teams to 10 points and offense continually struggle to match.
Does anyone here old enough want to argue letting Steve Young or even Vinny T was a good decision. None of you would have enjoyed having Brett Favre during his prime. Scoring close to 30 pts per game should help alleviate the turnovers. Winston has made his share of bone-headed mistakes but he will be in this league a long time at the age of 26. Maybe living with the evil we know is better than the evil that may come. History reflects we are not great in regards to drafting or even FA’s. At least Brad Johnson along with a strong running game could generate enough offense for success before our vaunted D began to evaporate.
Jameis will thrive in year 2 in this offense under Bruce. Hell, you all would have chased Peyton Manning out of town. Lastly, where are all of you that was complaining about Winston > Mariota? Don’t see many of you experts pining for his services…
I am as hopeful as the rest of you that our young D progresses. I am just a little gunshy after the stick carrier revolution bringing Mike Smith back after a fairly decent 5 or so game run.
January 17th, 2020 at 11:31 am
Soggy:
Who is the better QB you have in mind? Not being snarky
January 17th, 2020 at 11:32 am
Forgot to include Lamar Jackson. Who was also drafted a team hovering around .500
January 17th, 2020 at 11:48 am
Westernbuc, the four remaining teams in the playoffs have good runnig games and people calling plays that dont tip the degense off that they are running the ball.
Loom at how many pass attempts Jamies makes.By default his numvers will be higher than qbs who.attept less passes and if they had a strong run game the defemse would have to ve honest and hold back the blitzes
January 17th, 2020 at 11:51 am
Buccaneer fans need to stop pushing to run him away
Let me remind you Steve Young Doug Williams
He needs a running game and not sling it 50 times a game
January 17th, 2020 at 11:51 am
The amazing part to me is the people who think there’s NO WAY Winston reduces the interceptions and fumbles. There are players that get better every year, such as Ronald Jones, Alex Cappa, all our young CB’s who got better as the the year went on. The coaching is in place for Winston to be better in 2020, he’ll know the offense better, and we’ll have a better running game in place.
January 17th, 2020 at 11:53 am
TRex
OK that was amusing!
Awshucks
Five years is freaking FOREVER in todays game…four of this year’s QB’s had 3 years or less!
“Now I understand, so when a QB throws for 400 yards and 4 touchdowns and loses, like Jameis against the Falcons in 2018, that means he performed poorly!”
I’m a sub 100 IQ guy but I do possess math skills.
So if that same 4 TD QB gave up 10 points or more in TO’s that means he accounted for just 18 points NOT 28!!!!
Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I do not expect “blameless” to throw 30 ints next year…but anybody who counts on less than 15 needs to share some of that primo weed. If “blameless” cuts his ints to 15 do we doubt that his yardage and TD’s would also drop?
Counting FSU…we have seen this for SEVEN years now. My introduction to “blameless” was his final UF-FSU game. Four freaking ints in the first half along…but hey…4 TD’s in the 2nd half pulled out the win for the Noles.
Problem for “blameless” is that this isn’t college ball. EVERY team even the bad ones have elite talent…the difference is truly marginal and that shrinks the margin of error.
And last but certainly not least is the timing of the ints…where in the game…how important the game…IE the pressure on the QB…by this metric “blameless” is horrid and is a choker. The last game kind of put a punctuation on that. Pick six in OT during a game that could have avoided yet another losing season. That #3 uniform…besides being ugly…has a very tight collar.
January 17th, 2020 at 11:53 am
” 4 of this year’s PLAYOFF QB’s.”
January 17th, 2020 at 11:56 am
Hey Sleepy, wake up! What’s the defense supposed to do when their QB’s first throw of the game is usually to the other team? Meaningless yards, and TD’s don’t win games. Not giving the other team the ball does matter. Three TD passes are great, but not when you pair it with 4 picks one usually going to the house.
January 17th, 2020 at 11:58 am
Keep Jameis.
He’s the best QB the Bucs have ever had… good QB’s are hard to find.
He’s a hard worker and passionate about football.
The turnovers will eventually go down.
… or we can let him walk and he can win a super bowl for another team.. like Steve Young and others have done.
January 17th, 2020 at 11:59 am
Bucs Fan Since ‘76 – No exec believes that Tampa is going to push for the number 1 pick to draft Burrow. Do you know what all you have to give up to move that far up. You are talking about moving up 13 spots. Thats not going to happen. The saints traded 8 picks to move from 12th to 5th. How many picks do you think it will take to move from 14 to 1? So if he told you that then everything else that came out of his mouth was BS. BA would have already announced his retirement if that was even a possibility.
I also doubt that Rhule would stay and coach a team that is will probably lose the heart and soul of the defense and their franchise QB thats considering giving up multiple picks for when they will have a ton of holes to fill as well.
Either that person is not an exec or he wanted to make you feel special with fake info. Either way I dont think i would have posted such nonsense.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:02 pm
I’m with Couch Fan. 5 Years of Interceptions, Fumbles, and Losing are enough. I guess everyone wants to forger about all that when they say
He’ll be better in year 2 under Arians. How did year one work out for you
fans that think Winston is great? All you will get in year 2 is more of the
same mistakes, while paying him much more money to lose games.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:03 pm
It’s not just stats that count in this game unless you’re a fantasy football fan.
Having played many competetive sports including football there’s a huge mental aspect that needs to be accounted for.
I have not seen anyone post a very big part of competitive sports and that’s MOMENTUM….
JW is a perfect example of how momentum takes shape in his gameplay with all of his turnovers.
That quicksand theory is real folks and until he gets that part of his game under control we will continue to see the same momentum killing play as we’ve seen the last 5 years with the bucs.
Please end the madness…
Not a troll just a long time bucs fan looking for change in the right direction starting with JW.
Keep in mind that the team has been put together around JW and this is what we get after 5 years.
Definitely a Bucs Life 😞
January 17th, 2020 at 12:05 pm
We can save the attendance insults. Attendance is NOT ‘Blameless’ fault…nor is it the Bucs fans fault. NFL attendance is down everywhere while TV ratings are up.
Bottom line more and more folks choose to sit at home sipping a six pack for less than the price of one hot beer at the stadium. Yeah we Buc fans are just as guilty as the REST of the league and given the record..not just “blameless” but extending back far beyond him..is an issue.
17 teams have larger metro populations than us. They SHOULD draw more all things being equal. But it’s actually worse than that if you view the top ten.
Boston, Miami, Washington, Philly all have TWO TIMES as many potential fans as Tampa/St. Pete. They SHOULD double our attendance…
New York has 6.5X the population…LA 4X. I have seen some empty seats in those stadia as well.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:05 pm
Right, cause 41 turnovers isnt an alarming stat. Who cares about franchise records? That’s a pretty now bar you’re setting for this garbage QB Joe.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:05 pm
Low*
January 17th, 2020 at 12:14 pm
Jameis had 33 turnovers…. the dude just isn’t the answer.
But just in case he is…. we franchise him for a season and then draft a QB with one of our top 2 picks and let Jameis play and see what happens. Look at Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers. Those teams didn’t have a need at QB when they drafted those guys. Its the smart thing to do at this point. The draft is just too deep this year with QBs to overlook.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:17 pm
Joe:
I’m beginning to think you don’t need to waste your time writing any more Jameis articles. Just post his picture and type the word “discuss” and you’ll get the same result
January 17th, 2020 at 12:19 pm
Preach it Couch Fan!
It’s like the Freemanites all over again. Hilarious!
January 17th, 2020 at 12:20 pm
It’s not that hard to imagine how disheartening it must be to most Bucs’ players AND coaches to come in 5th BEST in takeaways (with 28) as an NFL defense yet also come in THE NFL WORST in giveaways (with 41) as an offense and ultimately 5th WORST in Turnover Differential (with MINUS 13) as a TEAM.
The key to winning the game is to win the TURNOVER BATTLE, and more specifically have a better TURNOVER DIFFERENTIAL. If you look at Jameis’ 5 years here (2015-2019), Bucs have played 80 games in those 5 years (Jameis started all but a handful). During those 80 games, Bucs have 155 giveaways as opposed to 120 takeaways. The ONLY year when we had a positive turnover differential was 2016 … which happens to also have been our ONLY winning year (9-7) … but as we’ve heard many times, that was a ‘fluke year’ for our defense. During those 80 games:
o Bucs have had a PLUS 2 (or more) TO Differential in 16 games … record: 15-1.
o Bucs have had a PLUS 1 TO Differential in 14 games … record: 7-7.
o Bucs have a Zero TO Differential in 11 games … we’re 3-8.
o Bucs have a MINUS 1 TO Differential in 10 games … we’re 4-6.
o Bucs have a MINUS 2 (or more) TO Differential in 29 games … we’re 3-26.
It’s readily apparent to me that a PLUS 2 differential is a VERY good thing … we’re 15-1 these past 5 years when we hit that goal. However, it’s also readily apparent that a MINUS 2 differential is a VERY bad thing … we’re 3-26 when we hit that goal. So yes, TURNOVERS DO MATTER … a LOT.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:21 pm
35 turnovers
34 TDs
More turnovers then touchdowns is terrible.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:25 pm
DefenseRules,
Stop making sense over there. The pretty yards and fancy points are all the entertainment one football fan could ever ask for. Losing with flare is where it’s at!
Turnovers are the culprit.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:31 pm
DR still hitting them with facts. Unfortunately they, meaning winston fan boys, dont care about meaningful stats. Sad stuff. 5k Yards, team records blah blah blah.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:32 pm
Steve K
This is actually worse than the freemanites. And I never would of thought that was possible.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:45 pm
2Sleey903 … “Winston cant take less than market value. Agent wont let him teams will pay it. Tampa should pay it. 31-32 mil sounds like a lot. However give him a 3 year deal. see how it plays out next year. See if his issues are fixed. If not trade him year two. Teams will take him. He’ll still be in his 20’s and a team will take him.”
Uhhh, Jameis is the one who makes the final decision, not his agent. So YES he CAN take less than market value (which you apparently placed at $31-$32 mil while Spotrac puts at a tad less than $27 mil). Your value is way too high for a QB who hasn’t even sniffed the playoffs nor won any real accolades for himself (Pro Bowl Alternate is only a thing because someone better opted not to go).
Beyond that though, your “See if his issues are fixed” is a VERY concerning proposition for a QB who you’re valuing at $31-$32 mil. IF Jameis had played lights-out this season (say 33 TDs against 10 INTs) Bucs would’ve been in the playoffs even with our early-season defense issues. And we might’ve even done quite well in them. And more than likely we would’ve found a way to keep Jameis … without any discussion. It was after all a ‘contract year’ … and Jameis flubbed it. So NOW you want to give him a 3-year contract at $31-$32 mil so we can see IF ‘his issues are fixed’?
Sorry, but no. IF BA wants to retain him for another year, for whatever reasons, I don’t have any issues with that, except one … PRICE. For half of that, no problem. For two-thirds of that, still doable. For the full enchilada, nope. That’s at least $10 mil OVER what we SHOULD pay him and still be able to buy the other necessary goodies to cook up a good meal. Pay Jameis $31-$32 mil and we’d be eating beans & franks for the next 3 years, or more.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:48 pm
When a QB is throwing pick 6s or just picks in general during the 1st quarter. Of course he will have good #s. We are playing from behind and are being forced into throwing over 50 times a game. Most of his stats are against teams playing soft because they have the lead and they know Shameis will eventually throw another pick. How far did all those great stats get us….
He is weak mentally and that will never change. 5 years in the pros plus his college days. He is what he is. Say buh bye and move on. I would seriously look at Fromm at #14. He takes care of the ball and still put up solid #s and thats after losing basically his entire WR group.
Not to mention Shameis and his off field issues. The guy is 1 mistake away from a long term suspension or ban. Thats not someone you give 20-30 million a year too. He is what he is and we will never even make the playoffs with his careless ball control. This league is setup for QBs to excel but he constantly finds ways to mess it up. Keep this defense together and draft Fromm and build for the future. Shameis will never amount to anything more than an average qb at best
January 17th, 2020 at 12:50 pm
Great article Joe. The sheer emotion behind all the comments is worth the price of admission.
Certainly their are extremists on both sides of the fence but I think for the majority of the fanbase they are just tired of losing.
The QB will always take a Lion’s share of the blame. It comes with the job. And while all the losing is not only on the QB his turnover issues have definitely contributed to losing. Any honest Buc fan can admitt that. He has to find a way to limit these turnovers or find a way to win multi-pick games. What’s that saying? Winning is the perfect deoderont.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:53 pm
You’re right, couch fan! It is worse. I never thought it’d come full circle again like it has.
I am hopeful we don’t spend big $ for huge turnovers.
January 17th, 2020 at 12:57 pm
I’m in the boat with the article the other day. Trust Bruce. QB is his thing. He will know what to do. And Im sure he will have no problems making a tough call no matter who likes it or not. My guess is he brings back Jameis.
And I’d love to see Winston grow into this offense. Learning a new offense is a big deal & I think that gets lost in emotion due to the past………More importantly we finnaly got a defense to put behind this offense….Let’s face it. Winston never had a defense for support. Always had to be the hero. Now it’s different. And I’d really hate to give up on Winston the first time he has a team he can truely contend with.
This team really showed big growth last year. I just wanna see the whole team back(as much as possible) and see what they can do. Think this group can be special.
GO BUCS!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 1:01 pm
It blows my mind too Joe. You would think the way people complain Winston hasn’t been carrying the worst passing defense in the nfl over past 5 years . Also a defense that during his tenure has given up on avg almost 26ppg over 4 years this year gave 29ppg. That’s not all on hits turnovers either. Before you guys go anointing the defense and throwing away Jameis you may want to check the schedule for next year. We play Rodgers, mahomes, cousins, Goff, drew brees twice , Ryan twice, a solid raiders defense and a solid bears defense and we’re playing the giants again. And you guys think a rookie or a check down Charlie is taking us to the playoffs. If we bring in a rookie were in complete offensive rebuild. There’s isn’t a veteran better than Winston. Point. Blank. Period.
January 17th, 2020 at 1:02 pm
35 turnovers – Yall better check ya sheet.
Never the less, 2 missed FG and 2 defensive stops from being 11-5. So can yall complaining about his turnovers please shut up.
Tampa is still 2 – 2 when he doesnt throw an interception and 1-1 when he doesnt turn the ball over at all. According to you cry babies we should every game if he doesnt turn the ball over.
January 17th, 2020 at 1:07 pm
No DR it’s not disheartening at all to score 4TDs only to watch your defense give up 30 plus and lose, or to watch your kicker miss chip shots that a highschool kicker would make or to hand it off and pretty much see a one yard gain or less every time or to watch a perfect pass bounce off someone’s hand to get picked. See it goes both ways my friend. There are plenty of reasons for frustration on this team from many sources.
January 17th, 2020 at 1:12 pm
Ndog!
Hey, good point. I would argue that the mistakes made by the other 52 players on the team are magnified because of the frequency of turnovers from Jameis. Everyone else’s mistake matter that much worse bc they are scrapping to make up for the inefficient/turnover laden football produced by our QB.
January 17th, 2020 at 1:25 pm
“Joe just doesn’t get it.”
Joe….Perhaps I can explain it to you. Winston has committed over 100 turnovers in the 5 years he has been the Bucs QB….more than any other player in the NFL during that same time.
Why is this important? Because Turnover Differential dictates wins and losses in the NFL! For example: (since 2005)
teams with a +1 TO/Diff in a game win 68% of the time!
Teams with a +2 TO/Diff in a game win 76% of the time!
Teams with a +3 TO/Diff in a game win 88% of the time!
And teams with a 4(or more) TO/Diff win the game 96% of the time!
Another example of this….the top 7 teams in TO/Diff this year ALL made the playoffs! The bottom 7 teams in TO/Diff (including the Bucs) ALL missed the playoffs and finished with LOSING records!
Jameis has had over 70games to prove to Bucs fans and coaches that he can become an elite passer in the NFL, but he continues to throw picks (and Pick 6’s) at historically high rates!
Jameis is like a lifeguard that throws drowning victims a life preserver made of stone. If he can’t control the turnovers, he will never be an elite level QB because he will always be sinking his teams chances with his play.
Hope that explains it.
January 17th, 2020 at 1:31 pm
I don’t know who is still reading down here but it’s not just 1 stat. It’s the legal issues, and losses, and picks, and Ws eaten. He can turn it around hopefully
January 17th, 2020 at 1:33 pm
Yes NDog there are many reasons to be frustrated. But why do you always insist on making disingenious posts about it? It’s totally unfair to mention pourous defensive days, poor running games, missed kicks, dropped passes and then totally exclude bad throws from the QB from your list……..QB mistakes are part of it buddy whether you wanna include it or not.
Now if you wanna debate how big a part…..fine, that’s fair. But Don’t exclude them like they aren’t there. That’s not being real.
Oh and you forgot we are the most penalized team in the league. Another part of the problem.
January 17th, 2020 at 1:34 pm
Steve K & Couch Fan … Contrary to what Ndog thinks, I’m NOT anti-Jameis (aka, a ‘hater’). I am very much for TEAM-BUILDING, and try (as best I can) to be objective in terms of how each player fits into the TEAM scheme of things.
The biggest ‘problem’ with Jameis is that he’s regressing in several key performance factors that are critical from a TEAM perspective. Turnovers (BOTH Interceptions AND Fumbles) is the most obvious area of regression (his INT % (4.8%) leads the NFL by a huge margin). Another one though is accuracy. He completed 380 out of 626 passing attempts for 60.7% … that very good IMO for a 5th year QB. Biggest part of that (I think) is that his On-Target Percentage for 2019 was a tad less than 70%. Plugged in about 10 QBs off the top of my head & ALL were above that by 5% or more (Drew Brees was 84%). Even Any Dalton & Mitch Trubisky were at 75%. Our Bucs receivers made Jameis look considerably better than he apparently is (of his 5,109 passing yards, a full 1,860 yards (over 36%) were YAC. That’s HUGE.
Still, it’ll come down to MONEY in the final analysis. And the biggest factor there is VALUE.
January 17th, 2020 at 1:43 pm
I think this Joe point is that horrible qbs wouldn’t be able to accomplish these feats. Both Evans and Godwin wouldn’t be Pro Bowlers without Jameis giving them the rock. He has greatly improved on the deep ball compared to the prior year.
A factor to the ints this year is adjusting to a new offense. No way those guys off the street could have known the playbook and or able to perform it correctly at all times. The lack of chemistry and knowledge can cause stare down picks. It’s easy to blame Jameis for picks when we don’t know the play called. Or who didn’t do their jobs. (Poor techniques, penalties, bad routes, no balance in play calling, and many other situations) We need a run game badly and there need to be more run plays called. This offense was rather one dimensional and predictable in term of pass vs run. We lost a lot of game when Jameis throw 40 passes and so few running plays or productivity. Also, some of the opponents defenders aren’t push over. Sometimes the defenders are just that good.
January 17th, 2020 at 1:49 pm
And Ndog, I don’t see any reason to defend the Bucs’ defense for their PERFORMANCE in the 1st half of last season. I’ve said before that they just weren’t very good. But considering that we didn’t have JPP (or White & Dean for a number of games) but did have VHIII & a parcel of rookies & 2nd year players, I don’t know why folks would expect top-of-the-line performance.
Yes they gave up a bunch of points on the season (51 of which are directly owned by the OFFENSE & another 80 of which have been attributed to poor field position as a result of turnovers by the OFFENSE). What’s important IMO is that they steadily IMPROVED & did quite well in the 2nd half of the season.
Assuming that BA can keep this defense together (and that’s a BIG assumption), I’m very HOPEFUL that the Bucs’ defense can be a Top-15 … and MAYBE even a Top-10 … defense this year. And I’m HOPEFUL because of what I saw them do on the field during the 2nd half of the season. Not sure I feel the same about the Bucs’ offense after those last 2 games.
January 17th, 2020 at 1:53 pm
Defense,
Yesterday, I mentioned a stat that’s underlooked and never really thought about as being an metric. You nailed it…. psst.. QBR look at the relationship with ints.
St Pete,
Great posts. I enjoy the team first , fan first perspective. Well done.
January 17th, 2020 at 2:00 pm
Look at the interceptions thrown by playoff quarterbacks. Most are under 10. Some have less interceptions than Winston has picked sixes which is unheard of. People need to understand outside of the scoreboard turnovers are the most important stat. Not come from behind yardage or desperate attempts in the fourth quarter when you’ve already put the team behind with turnovers. For those who know football and know how to win football games Winston is terrible. For fantasy football and Florida State fans all they care about is meaningless yardage And watching Jameis try to come back from his own mistakes every week. Do you want a winner or do you want to celebrate Jameis?
January 17th, 2020 at 2:02 pm
All you Jameis lovers- you’re just like Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh-
“We can’t find anybody better…”
“If we get a run game, maybe the turnovers will come down..”
“If the kicker made the kicks, we would’ve won 2 more games…”
And like Eeyore, you have a bad opinion of everyone who criticizes Jameis’ play and call them basically “brainless” like Eeyore’s opinions of other animals.
And your arguments defending Jameis are like the stick house Eeyore lived in – just like nobody knew that it actually was a house, nobody knew that Jameis’ play was that good until you start rattling off meaningless stats…
January 17th, 2020 at 2:05 pm
Dear : Glazer boys, B.A. or anyone that matters…. please settle this soon and make the decision on Jameis.
Go Bucs! (where I have no idea)
January 17th, 2020 at 2:25 pm
awshubuc
2018?….lol….
try looking at 2019…..
im talking about when he threw for 400yards along with 5INTs vs CAR in London…..
did he perform poorly?…..YES!!!!
did we win?…NO!!!!!
passing metrics for BS stats for losers!!!!!!!….your football IQ is comical….
GO BUCS!!!!!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 2:40 pm
813,
Great post!
Some apologists think all that matter is losing with flare. If all they are seeking is entertainment, and not an all-our pursuit of victory-playoffs-Championships then they should go watch something scripted for entertainment like wrestling.
All those yards don’t mean squat, when it comes at the expense of 5 INTs, two fumbles, and a butt ton of sacks. Buc fans don’t get a lot of love on national TV and that performance won’t do us any favors in 2020.
January 17th, 2020 at 2:41 pm
January 17th, 2020 at 2:40 pm
813,
Great post!
Some apologists think all that matter is losing with flare. If all they are seeking is entertainment, and not an all-our pursuit of victory-playoffs-Championships then they should go watch something scripted for entertainment like wrestling.
All those yards don’t mean squat, when it comes at the expense of 5 INTs, two fumbles, and a ton of sacks. Buc fans don’t get a lot of love on national TV and that performance won’t do us any favors in 2020
January 17th, 2020 at 2:49 pm
Yeah anytime you turn the ba over that’s a poor performance. No one is disputing that. But that’s not what you said. You said that if the team lost that means the QB performed poorly. Which couldnt be further from the truth.
Now, I never said that a QB cant win or lose a game for you here and there. But it is positively asinine to place the record for an entire team over 5 years at the feet of one player.
What’s sad though Bucboi, is I know for a fact that if Jameis had been a gator and not a Seminole, you would defend him vehemently to no end.
January 17th, 2020 at 2:50 pm
*anytime you turn it over that many times* it’s a poor performance.
January 17th, 2020 at 2:51 pm
Another point of issue I take with these comments about the defense. As of week 10 they were getting roasted by a rookie WR for 3 TDs in Christian Kirk, who had not scored a TD in his NFL career to that point. Even when the defense “improved” it was against a horrible Jags team lead by Nick Foles (who many of you wanted here to replace Jameis last year BTW), the Lions led by the immortal Davin Blough, the Texans without Will Fuller and the Falcons without Calvin Ridley. And for the last time I do not down play the interceptions but I am presenting the other side so why would I repeat the same crap that is said on these articles over and over again?
January 17th, 2020 at 2:56 pm
Ndog
Classic you buddy .
After mike evans dropped a few passes in one game you called him garbage (and dont pretend like you didnt little guy)
Yet jameis can throw 5 ints in a game and lose a fumble and there are excuses left and right. “Only one pick his fault “. “Otherwise another solid performance from the best buc ever”
And then you act like since your a season ticket holder since forever that you are a bucs fan. As in supporting the actual entire team
Thats funny
No question you support jameis. The rest of the team is expendable if they make ya Nole hero look bad
The biggest hypocrite on here
January 17th, 2020 at 3:15 pm
He hamstrings the team with his play on Sundays via turnovers – which is something you can live with and work around while he’s on a rookie contract. But now you expect the team to work around his contract as well as his streaky play? If they do keep him that’s going to negatively impact their ability to upgrade the run game and keep the defense intact. I’m sorry, but for $30mm I won’t be at all upset if they sign a vet and draft a rookie. The chances that someone else can come in and get similar production are helped immensely by a strong defense and the one of best 1-2 punches at WR in all of football.
January 17th, 2020 at 3:17 pm
awshbuc
dont back track now….lol…
i said if a QB performs poorly, the team loses….and i gave an example…..
whats sad is if he wasnt a nole, you wouldnt be defending him…..
i could care less where a player played his college ball…..i rooted for VHG the same way i root for JW…..when VHG wasnt getting it done, i called him out for it….i call JW out when he aint getting it done….and he hasnt lived up to his #1 overall pick bill…..
JW could have all the best “passing metrics” in the NFL every week…..but if he turns the ball over like he did this year, those “passing metrics” wont win you a game….but the TOs WILL keep us from winning games…..
GO BUCS!!!!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 3:30 pm
D-1
Thanks. Coming from you…one of our best posters compliment is really appreciated.
January 17th, 2020 at 3:36 pm
All those yards and TD’S and Completions and attempts and INT’s created the whopping 7 wins this season. Big deal! So we have a QB who has lots and lots of years and TD’s that is Fantastic! Oh and he throws 30 INT’s and fumbles a lot. Yeah well that sure does sound like a playoff QB to me. No. Cut the cord and move forward. What will it be year 7-8 and all the lights go on?
January 17th, 2020 at 3:45 pm
Bird as usual you are full of garbage. Guess what tough guy also ripped Jameis and said he was why we lost the Texans game but I guess you conveniently forget that right. I call like it is I’m sorry that you cannot process the truth. I don’t back away from anything i post and yes I said Evans sucked that day you know why CAUSE HE DID. Just like Jameis sucked vs Houston but keep living in your own little fantasy world where you are correct and let the adults discuss football.
January 17th, 2020 at 3:57 pm
LaMarcus Says:
January 17th, 2020 at 10:45 am
Jw is just too good to be spooning around and caring what the fans might think. Sign him now. Come on man. I will not buy tickets until he is resigned and if he doesnt I’m not buying tickets
And not have that great view of Himes over your shoulder? (Seriously, you’re not a Bucs’ fan. You’re a Groper fan.)
January 17th, 2020 at 4:00 pm
Sleepy,
Respectfully, if you read my post, I didn’t validate anything the exec. told me, and I didn’t state it as fact. Read it again. What I can guarantee you is that he was an Asst. GM of an NFL team. He is best friends with an executive of another pro team who is a good friend of mine. I read the guy’s bio and he’s legit. That’s not the same thing as saying what he told me was a fact.
I will say, however, that he was laying out a plausible scenario, notwithstanding your opinion, valid though it may be, to the contrary.
I don’t know what it would take to convince the Bengals to trade the pick. A combination of players and draft picks to be sure. I do know the Bengals are a mess and need a lot more than a QB. I also know that the current thinking among NFL suits is that drafting a QB when the rest of the team is five years away from being competitive is not a good move, especially with an OL that is gonna get the kid killed.
Finally, if I’m BA, I try to make a deal that does not break up my team, right up to day 1 of the draft. Deals don’t happen without trying, and both parties can always say no.
January 17th, 2020 at 4:01 pm
The defense clearly improved in the second half of the season.
One “Blameless” supporter said yeah and we went 5-3….yeah true dat but it should have been 7-1! The weak link…the QB. So even when the D does it’s job that’s no assurance if the QB turns the ball over..especially first play in OT after winning the coin toss.
January 17th, 2020 at 4:14 pm
No dude. You said performance = wins/ losses
Which implies that no matter how a QB plays if they lost, it’s a bad performance. Literally nothing I said was backtracking.
Also you’re dead wrong because i have zero allegiance to FSU or any college team for that matter.
And you absolutely did NOT call out Vernon. Ever. You made excuse after excuse and would always deflect blame away from him by saying crap like “Carlton Davis didnt play that great either.” You defended him right until he was traded and even some after that.
Also, take away 2 awful performances by Matt Gay, and one awful performance by the Refs in Tennessee, and were 10-6. Turnovers and all.
That being said, this was his first year in a scheme that’s notorious for increasing turnovers by QBs their first year playing in it. I fully expect the turnovers to decrease next season. And just like Carson Palmer i think he’ll have a massive year.
January 17th, 2020 at 4:16 pm
Yup Stpete it had nothing to do with the kicker missing 3 kicks the last game or our 2 starting Wideouts being injured. Or the QB having a broken thumb on his throwing hand…
January 17th, 2020 at 4:24 pm
Moderation?
January 17th, 2020 at 4:28 pm
awshbucs
ok obviously JW never is at fault in your eyes….
continue to make excuses like the kicker, run game, play calling, SOS, wind, rain, lovie defense and 1st year in the system….lol….
your the laughing stock right now mr. passing metrics…..lol…
GO BUCS!!!!!!!
January 17th, 2020 at 4:34 pm
Jeagan1999-
“Why is this important? Because Turnover Differential dictates wins and losses in the NFL! For example: (since 2005)
teams with a +1 TO/Diff in a game win 68% of the time!
Teams with a +2 TO/Diff in a game win 76% of the time!
Teams with a +3 TO/Diff in a game win 88% of the time!
And teams with a 4(or more) TO/Diff win the game 96% of the time!
To add to that, “Since 1950 (Yeah, 19-freakin-50!) teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of the time.”
For those taking score, that is 70 years worth of data!!!
I just don’t know how you argue that, I really don’t. But, in today’s world, facts are just brushed aside when they don’t meet one’s agenda. So, there’s that!
January 17th, 2020 at 4:37 pm
Not true at all. I recognize that the turnovers are a problem that needs to be improved upon.
However I just think his positive production to this point in his career and his upside are just far too good to let go. And to say he outright sucks as some on here claim, is the epitome of stupidity.
January 17th, 2020 at 4:40 pm
I’d be all for a change at the QB position, if there was an option better than Winston. But there isn’t. Can dream all day about the bucs getting Brady, Brees, or Rivers… but you gotta realize that ain’t gonna happen. Too expensive, and unlikely their teams will let them walk. Let’s draft an average rookie QB with our 14th pick? The O-line will be neglected yet again, 50+ sacks. Inexperienced rookie whose never played a snap at the NFL level, never been in a BA offense. The defense definitely wont be able to pick up the slack for the offense. Yes, the defense improve the second half of the season… but was among the worst in the first half of the season. Special teams lost 2 games… so they ain’t perfect by a long or game winning chip shot. So many penalties all around. Point is, if we can improve on the QB position, absolutely… but unless the bucs are committed to TANKING next season, there are no improvements for that position. They can, however, improve the weak spots in the OL that were horrible in pass protection and run blocking. Draft a 2nd round RB to upgrade Barber. Still need depth in the secondary and DL. The Team needs improvement across the board, and a new qb is not an upgrade.
January 17th, 2020 at 4:41 pm
Dude, it takes a team win games. That’s the absolute truth.
January 17th, 2020 at 4:45 pm
I mean dude you’re a gators fan you should know. You guys havent had a good QB for a decade and still manage to do ok.
January 17th, 2020 at 5:16 pm
Because the one stat is the most important stat in football: turnovers. A QB can’t just be a good player, he must protect the ball 50 times a game. This offense has had 3-4 amazing years…didn’t matter.
January 17th, 2020 at 5:35 pm
the guy is a MAJOR liability… He single handedly loses games.. (see last game)..
Arians would become a laughing stock in his profession if he keeps starting JW and the guy keeps losing with turnovers..
Imagine even if the Bucs played all losing teams and somehow made it to the playoffs just to have JW throw 4 ints and lose in the 1st round with him throwing the game away to the opponent…
The only way JW ever gets to a Super Bowl is as a backup…
January 17th, 2020 at 6:01 pm
Tye.
Single handedly lost us the? By leading what would have been 3 scoring drives only for the kicker to leave 9 points on the board in a game that never should have gone to overtime?
Some people…
January 17th, 2020 at 6:15 pm
@tye
It doesn’t matter how the team got to that point. The fact is the “franchise” QB had the ball in his hands with a chance to pick up the slack and lead the team for the win. Which is what the better franchise QB’s do. They say forget how we got here let’s go get the win. And what happened? First play. Pick 6 of course.
Go ahead and blame whoever you want but Winston threw the pick through no fault but his own.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:22 pm
More turnovers than touchdowns is awful in today’s nfl.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:24 pm
We could get a better W-L record with another QB whom takes care of the football.
It’s not outrageous to think they we’d win more games if we didn’t turn into over so damn much.
Our QB turns it over more than twice the average rate of NFL QBs when rescuing back to pass. That is not a recipe for playoffs or a championship.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:31 pm
Top 5 passing yard leaders ALL finished under .500
#3 had lowest completion percentage..Not EVERY ROUTE was bad…Ya notice yer not. Seeing a lot of picks in postseason ..
They cannot be overcome..Si I’ll start it …Who’s replacing Arriassdfer
January 17th, 2020 at 6:38 pm
Hey NDOG
Let’s look at those games of missed kicks
How many turnovers in those games? Picks 6s
Ohh ya and by the way how many overthrown balls
Because you see the QB gets 30 million because he is more important
If Winston throws a TD it takes two missed kicks away
Can’t be the leader on the field when it’s good then point the finger when it’s bad
January 17th, 2020 at 6:45 pm
The ONLY year when we had a positive turnover differential was 2016 … which happens to also have been our ONLY winning year (9-7) … but as we’ve heard many times, that was a ‘fluke year’ for our defense. During those 80 games:
o Bucs have had a PLUS 2 (or more) TO Differential in 16 games … record: 15-1.
o Bucs have had a PLUS 1 TO Differential in 14 games … record: 7-7.
o Bucs have a Zero TO Differential in 11 games … we’re 3-8.
o Bucs have a MINUS 1 TO Differential in 10 games … we’re 4-6.
o Bucs have a MINUS 2 (or more) TO Differential in 29 games … we’re 3-26.
It’s readily apparent to me that a PLUS 2 differential is a VERY good thing … we’re 15-1 these past 5 years when we hit that goal. However, it’s also readily apparent that a MINUS 2 differential is a VERY bad thing … we’re 3-26 when we hit that goal. So yes, TURNOVERS DO MATTER … a LOT.
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Drop the mic…D Rules!
Memo to the Winston knob gobblers: Read the above again…what does that tell you? I’ll help. You can’t turn it over in this league and win. You can have a running game and a defense but if you turn it over…you’re toast.
Winston is just a turnover machine and all your whining and crying and leg humping isn’t going to change it.
DUMP WINSTON HE SUCKS!
January 17th, 2020 at 6:46 pm
“Joe just doesn’t get it.”
Joe….Perhaps I can explain it to you. Winston has committed over 100 turnovers in the 5 years he has been the Bucs QB….more than any other player in the NFL during that same time.
Why is this important? Because Turnover Differential dictates wins and losses in the NFL! For example: (since 2005)
teams with a +1 TO/Diff in a game win 68% of the time!
Teams with a +2 TO/Diff in a game win 76% of the time!
Teams with a +3 TO/Diff in a game win 88% of the time!
And teams with a 4(or more) TO/Diff win the game 96% of the time!
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Thank you Jeagan1999.
Winston knob gobblers, read the above. What does that tell you?
Winston is never going to win in this league no matter what you give him.
WINSTON SUCKS OUT LOUD!
January 17th, 2020 at 6:48 pm
I’ll start..Who do you armchair Lombardi’s and Bill Walsh’s have replacing Arrians next year at this time after he gets clipped for another 7-9 or worse finish and Riddle me this Batman ,how exactly does #3 Show up next July miraculously healed of hitting wide-open middle linebackers 2 to 3 times a month you people seem more interested in winning this freaking argument then winning football games.
January 17th, 2020 at 6:53 pm
“JoeWinstonFan.com”
January 17th, 2020 at 7:00 pm
Anyone who engages in Winston debates is either unemployed, bored, or a Winston homer. I swear is stats speaks for themselves. What’s there to argue about???
January 17th, 2020 at 7:13 pm
Are you that stupid? Or deaf? Or blind? It isn’t the interceptions, it’s the win/loss record that results from JW throwing back breaking picks. He cost us 6 games this year. With an average to above average QB who protects the ball, the Bucs make the playoffs and Bruce is coach of the year again.
January 17th, 2020 at 8:16 pm
On a serious note, another issue is that Winston thought he was ballin’….that’s a huge problem. He thinks he was playing like a 30 mill guy. He’s nuts. Anyone who agrees is nuts.
January 17th, 2020 at 9:03 pm
Just want to make playoffs again and have hope. Racking up numbers in garbage time where defenders can no longer hit without penalties does not result in W’s. I want to eat W’s and that is not going to happen with Mr. Excitement at the helm.
The first Mr. Excitement was Jimmy Spencer in NASCAR which resulted in 2 wins in nearly 500 races.
January 17th, 2020 at 10:13 pm
Geez, Winston is not good and never has been as a Buccaneer. Does he make crazy good throws that only a handful of quarterbacks in history could make and that make your jaw drop? Hell yes. Has he always made buffoonish plays that make you wonder what he is even doing in the league? Hell yes to that too.
Jameis has played great in some games, horribly in others, and just meh in plenty. To me, that just makes him average and calling him good is just pure silliness. Does he have the potential to be good or even great? Damn right he does and that’s why I think that he should get another shot this year. Acting like he has arrived already or saying that he is a good quarterback as of today is nonsense. Love your site, please don’t hate me. 😛
January 17th, 2020 at 10:57 pm
Joe just shut the f%#! up. You sound stupid as usual. Nobody wants 5more yrs of jaymiss crap. He sucks and does ur site. His good don’t outweigh his bad. Fingers crossed hes outta here…
January 18th, 2020 at 10:03 am
The thumb probably didn’t help, but all season it felt like one minute i think we’ve got Brett Favre 2.0 and the next I’m convinced we’ve got Jay Cutler 2.0. Count me in the camp hoping we use the tag on him and draft a QB in round 1 or 2. I don’t care if we have other needs to address or if it miffs Jameis like it did Brees with the Chargers…stats be damned the erratic QB play directly lost games every bit as much as the erratic kicking game and should be handled the same way you do with any position. You have competition at all positions to bring out the best in the players. You didn’t see Brady throw a hissy fit when the Patriots drafted Jimmy G…true ballers bring their A game when faced with a young guy trying to take their job away.
January 18th, 2020 at 9:33 pm
The only thing I disagree with Joe on this one; most of Jameis’ detractors weren’t HS QBs, they’re equipment managers.
January 19th, 2020 at 12:41 pm
Sooo Many TROLLS on this web site, I find it hard to believe they are Buc fans. Sure you can disagree with Joe and or the Bucs from time to time but the vigor displayed here is always so rude cruel and most times personal. i as a long time Bucs fan enjoy Joe and their take on everything Bucs and disagree with their segments from time to time but never attack them or anyone who does not see things my way. I have checked other team blogs and they disagree too but not as personal as this site. Joe keep up the great work! love this site and hope you will continue even with the infestation of trolls,