Do Bucs Need Better Receiver Coaching?

January 5th, 2020

A retired NFL receiver sees all 30 of Jameis Winston’s interceptions and also sees a corps of pass catchers that needs to be coached up.

It’s an intriguing take when you factor in how often Bucs coaches blamed Jameis’ targets for an interception. It started in Week 1 against the 49ers with Peyton Barber getting called out for running a bad route on Jameis’ first pick-6 of the season.

The voice on this is former Bucs and Giants receiver Michael Clayton.

Looking back on the loss to the Falcons last Sunday, Clayton reflected on what he sees as a deficiency among Bucs receivers.

“By God, we’ve been doing this and we’ve been talking about this for years. We have great receivers, right? But they do things that aren’t coached to the next level, and we’ve missed out on that,” Clayton told WDAE radio. “And I’ve been able to critique that multiple times this year where it hasn’t necessarily been Jameis Winston’s fault.

“I know from playing the position there’s an opportunity for receivers to eliminate almost 90 percent of interceptions. And that’s being a defender – what we saw Breshad Perriman do one time in the [Falcons] game; be a defender, knock the ball out and move on. You have so many options if you’re running the correct routes at the right angles, coming back to the football, [shaping] your routes off and we just haven’t seen that, these players go to the next level. That’s Jerry Rice-caliber type of routes, always being quarterback-friendly. And we got great receivers who haven’t gone to that next step yet. Hopefully they’re coached up to eliminate some of these mistakes.

“But you can critique it both ways. You can blame a little bit about Jameis on timing. You can blame a little bit about shoulder … When the bullets are flying, it’s tough for me to throw it all on Jameis.”

Joe’s not absolving Jameis of blame here, but one should wonder if the Bucs are coaching their pass catchers well.

That may seem like a bizarre thought with two Bucs receivers in the Pro Bowl and Breshad Perriman having a career year in a high-octane offense. But there’s always room for improvement and Bucs coaches did throw a lot of blame on the guys catching passes this season.

As for Jameis’ season-ending interception, Clayton didn’t like the route Cameron Brate ran on the play. Brate was “drifting,” Clayton said, noting “as a receiver, you’re getting paid $7 million, run a $ 7 million route.”

95 Responses to “Do Bucs Need Better Receiver Coaching?”

  1. BigHog Says:

    KEEP GRINDING FAMOUS!!! As we strengthen our weak spots, so will FAMOUS !!!..BUCS 2020 !!

  2. Mr. Reality Says:

    If Winston did his job to make reasonable decisions he’d cut HALF of the INTs that are due to that alone. Would be about half of the TDs and there would be no discussion. And even with their other warts the Bucs would probably have been 10-6 on that alone. They’d have been in the conversation at the mid-point of the season.

    Last night’s game in HOU, as I watched two mature, promising, respected young QBs last night in DeShaun Watson and Josh Allen, I couldn’t help but note how many critical drives each one led for his team. You could see some inexperience in some cases and great defensive plays, but each QB took care of the football, allowing them to not only be in the game, but into overtime.
    Winston would very likely have lost the game early due to turnovers or would have choked quickly in OT with a killing INT. But Winston supporters at that point would have continued to blame the running game, the recievers, the play call, the center, or the lack of wind in the dome, etc, and would have said they were just happy to get to the playoffs and secretly know they were really more happy to see their loser icon still on the team.

    Winston needs to go. This nonsense about fixing recievers is not the big problem. It is a tick turd compared to Winston. Fix the hugest problem…getting a QB who makes good decisions and listens to his coaches… and the other stuff will earn more attention.

  3. adam from ny Says:


  4. Defense Rules Says:

    So now the Bucs’ receivers are at fault for Jameis’ INTs because they’re not running perfect routes every single play? Uhhh, newsflash Michael: EVERY NFL QB has exactly the same issue. WRs & TEs & RBs aren’t perfect, and once a play starts, it is a kinda dynamic situation. Heck, sometimes defenders probably even get in the way. I know, that’s highly inconsiderate of them, but they’re not perfect either.

    Jameis has some pretty danged good receivers to throw to. No, guys like Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Brent Perriman, Cam Brate, OJ Howard, RoJo & others aren’t perfect … but as a group they’re pretty danged good. Personally I’d rate them as good as any group of receivers in the NFL. Folks are making far too many excuses for Bucs’ giveaways this year. It’s a MAJOR problem … FIX IT.

  5. JP_09 Says:

    Don’t forget the concession stand workers stance while ringing up your order, if we could fix that James’s INTs will decrease by 18.45%

  6. Jose Gaspar Says:

    Exactly! I’ve noticed this all year. The soft round down and out route instead of a crisp cut. They all do it. In fact, I see it more often than not around the NFL these days.

  7. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Perhaps…..Kevin Garver is a bit thin on experience compared to some of our other coaches….but I can assure you if there is a ounce of truth to this, BA will can him.
    And, by the way, Peyton Barber is not a WR……neither was Dare…..
    Yes, we have run some bad routes but Brate was flat covered and the ball shouldn’t have been thrown to him….
    The point made about a WR becoming a defender is good…..especially with Jameis….and I’m sure we saved several more potential interceptions.

  8. BucEmUp Says:

    Matt Gay lost two games all.on his own, thats 9 – 7 with the ints.

    The defense didnt start playing good until mid season. Remember how bad they were to start? Lets be conservative and add one more win had they played like that from the beginning. 10-6

    Now put a rb in the game who has vision and can get yardage and catch pases? One more win. 11-6

    Take away the ints that are not on Jameis and possbly 12-7.

    I’ll take Jameis and his picks long.He wants to win more than anyone.Only a fool would let him walk out the door.

  9. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Clayton is looking for bones to pick ,some of which aren’t there. His point about a 7 million dollar route was dubious. All that was needed a 7 million dollar catch,first down and mission accomplished. Since it wasn’t an INT it has nothing to do with Jameis high Interception rate.
    Can’t really argue with a receiver having to go on defense at times. But some of that starts with the QB. My idea of a 21 million dollar pass is one that is thrown where only the receiver can catch it. Jameis could benefit from next level coaching in that aspect of his game. Jameis could easily have more INT’s if corners could catch some of balls thrown in their direction.

  10. T REX Says:

    He also said that the Bucs were NOT winning a Super Bowl with Winston.


  11. J Says:

    Shut up Clayton. You lick a certain qbs boots. That retired receiver needed better receiver coaching… one year wonder. Godwins already surpassed Clayton.

  12. J Says:

    Wouldn’t need to rely on Matt gay against giants if offense did something in the second half.

  13. NOLES Says:

    Mr Reality—

    I get your take on Jameis but I thought Josh Allen was careless w the football especially in the 2nd half. DeShaun Watson was clearly the better player who overcame a tough start bc the Bills D was ALL over him. I would not want Allen over Jameis bc he is more of a runner than a passer. Now DeShaun Watson would look great in a Bucs uniform, he is a winner evidence by the last play he made… He did it in college as well so it’s nowt new… what a play that was not sure I recall a greater play made to avoid a sack & complete a pass… WOW..

  14. Bob in Valrico Says:

    That’s fantasy football, BucEmUp. There is not a good coach that thinks more than one INT
    in a game is a good goal. If I have overlooked someone, then he is probably watching playoffs at home like we are.

  15. Bird Says:

    Defense rules

    That and now its the receivers fault for not being a “better defender” to knock jameis bad throws down to stop the Int from taking place


    I want jameis back now for another year
    These excuses just keep getting better

    Next year will be flatulence

    Michael clayton was just not that good a receiver
    Shoukd not be saying a word about Godwin and Evans , 2 real receivers

  16. Jonzey Says:

    I agree with buc em up JW needs to stay a Buc if they knew he needed glasses fix it. Gay started off great then he started fading away. JW played with a broken finger for 3 games. Drew Brees day out Multiple games. We need to sign him and go into the draft get a OT 1st, RB 2nd, and we need to sign the whole defense Suh as well. Suh was a leader on that line JJP made the team better. JW will be a pro bowel next year if we keep him

  17. geno711 Says:

    Great fodder for npuppy from ex-receiver Michael Clayton.

    We should respect Clayton’s opinion to some degree but we know a few things:

    1. Since the beginning of getting on the radio he has been a Jameis fan.
    2. First time in listening to all guys analyzing NFL interceptions that I have heard one say that there is an opportunity for receivers to eliminate 90 percent of interceptions.
    3. It was alleged that he was benched more than once for his mistakes.
    4. Great 1st year.
    5. After his 1st year he was a bust at a greater than Vernon Hargreaves
    i.e. Rest of his career 2005 to 2011 was 143 catches (about 20 per year) and total of 1762 yards (about 280 per season) and a total of 3 TD’s.

    But yes!

    Let’s forgot all the advanced analytics that show that Jameis continues to have one of the highest rate of off target throws, that our receivers catch the highest rate of contested throws or the obvious never let your eyes stray from the primary receiver.

  18. Licht Headed Says:

    Dumbest fans in the NFL……another Buc QB to another team that will win a SB.

  19. SteveK Says:

    No SB with all those turnovers.

    Hilarious that the FSU Honks and Jameis Apologists resort to name calling, and insult the intelligence of other fans. But, they refuse to acknowledge no playoffs in 5 years.

    39 turnovers from Jameis in 2019

    34 touchdowns from Jameis in 2019

    7 pick 6’s in 2019

    Really, it’s 27 net touch downs in 2019 and 39 turnovers over 16 games is 2.4 per game.

    Why can’t the turnovers be fixed? The arm talent is there, but the decision making skills are flabbergasting.

    Insert a lot of QBs in this offense: QB Whisperer, Evans, Godwin, RoJo, OJ, etc. and they put up some major numbers without all the gosh forsaken turnovers.

    The “turnovers and losses don’t outweigh the pretty yards and points” crowd is a real drag on those who are Buc fans first and overall fans of winning.

    Hearing the nonsense about quality QB play in Tampa is sickening. It’s a lie. And we need to wake up and smell the turnovers. Let me know if we can make the playoffs turning it over like that?

  20. SteveK Says:

    And, of course a former WR- one who was a prized blocking icon- is going to say the WR should prevent all interceptions. Mr. Clayton won a NCAA championship and Super Bowl for his grit and determination. I can also bet for damn sure if Clayton were a QB that he’d be saying the exact same thing about the QB position preventing 90% of INTs. Mr Clayton has pride and is accountable. Imagine if Jameis had that same accountability for mistakes and turnovers. Instead, he just wants us to check our sheet and point out the pretty yards and points- as if they don’t come at the expense of losses and selling our defense out to dry.

  21. Tackleblockwin Says:

    I’m was never a great football player but I did play a little WR and Safety in my youth. On longer passes a WR has more time to adjust and help the QB out on poor throws. You simply have more time to adjust. On shorter routes it is a different story such as a slant coming off the line of scrimmage. I’m not blaming our WRs too much here. However, many WRs now days do run very sloppy routes…not just the Bucs. That alone can make things difficult for any QB. I guess the best QBs recognize a poor or incorrect route and don’t try to still force it.

  22. Old School Athlete Says:

    So now it’s the receivers’ fault? This is stunningly stupid! Totally mystifying how some people are so obsessed with one man. I’ve run out of words to describe it.
    You guys still call him a franchise QB? Look at what Watson did last night in a high-pressure, back-to-the-wall situation. That is what a franchise QB does.

  23. SteveK Says:

    While Matt Gay failed last game, and the Giants game, I’m ready for competition in camp for him. It’s sad to hear the Apologists/Honks cry that Gay is terrible, but won’t put on the same lens to judge Jameis. Much like the Vita Vea player poll- when Joe mentions that Vea didn’t put up lobster stats and cant justify a solid grade. I wish we could open our eyes and see that Vea is an anchor on the #1 run defense, and that the last two years we have have double digit sackers (first time since Simeon in 2006) with Vea commanding double teams and swallowing up the run. Vea can do better, but he is for sure not making mistakes. If he were the run d and production of teammates would be down.

    Let’s be objective. Who gets paid the most? Who touches the ball the most? Who has 29 turnovers in 2019? Who wants $30 million per year for wild play?

    I bet other QBs could replicate Winston’s production if they were permitted to turn the ball over with reckless abandon. The numbers would be more impressive if they were attained cleanly, not by flinging it- losing games- and putting the team behind on games.

  24. SteveK Says:

    Old School,

    I’m with you. It’s mind numbing to witness the mental gymnastics 🤸‍♀️ and spin on how the turnovers and losses and lack of accountability aren’t the major culprit. Our QB is not a leader through his play.

  25. Im tired and 87 is right Says:

    Tackleblockwin kind of hard to do when he’s throwing to a spot before the WR even breaks on his route. Can’t change the trajectory of the ball mid air.

  26. H8JWLUVBUCS Says:

    Hey Bucs learn from the Tennessee Titans and cut your losses and move on from this turnover king, they have made it to the playoffs twice since JW and Mariota are drafted.

  27. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    SteveK Says
    “Hilarious that the FSU Honks and Jameis Apologists resort to name calling…”

    Pot meet Kettle.I


  28. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    The simple truth is that Jameis makes bonehead mistakes.

    The other simple truth is that he makes amazing plays too.

    Sometimes picks are his fault. Sometimes they are not.

    Bad with the good. Good with the bad.

    Personally, I think it is smart to keep him at least one more year…without putting all our chips on him.

  29. SmittyToiletBowles Says:

    Licht headed
    Thats fine let him win one with another team. We all know he will win one somewhere else eventually. Too bad half the fans will have had heart attacks by then and not be able to witness it. Ive got no emotion in the winston debate. Its time to move on in my opinion. I took the emotion out and simply made the decision based on his play. 5 years in and still throwing away games. Time to move forward. And Clayton didnt even run routes on half his snaps. Cmon Mike

  30. stpetebucsfan Says:

    First off…NO single player actually loses or wins a game. Frequently a SINGLE player will make a final decisive play. They get the credit or blame. The preceding 59 minutes of effort meant nothing eh.

    Matt Gay did not lose two games!!!! He “lost” the Giants game if you wish to ignore the MANY opportunities we had to put that contest away long before his “decisive” kick.

    He did NOT lose Atlanta. You could accurately say he did not help us win it….but he DID NOT lose it…JW had the ball in his hands at the start of OT…he not only did not win it for us….he made it impossible for anybody to even try with a pick six! He’s the FRANCHISE QB looking to make 25 million and that performance is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE for a “money” QB. The fact that it followed so many other choke jobs is enough for me.

    If I may honor the memory of the late great Sam Wyche who loved to use misdirection in his humor as in…”We may be small but at least we’re slow”.

    JW may be inconsistent on the field but at least he’s a PR disaster off the field.

    Some of you may be familiar with Politifact which simply fact checks claims and lies.

    Perhaps JBF could start Excuse watch. I’ve lost count but I’d say in five years we’ve easily passed the 1000 mark. For his supporters JW is the Teflon QB. No mistake seems to stick to him with that crowd.

  31. SteveK Says:


    There are segments of buc fans whose allegiances first fall under the category of apologist or FSU fan. That is the only explanation.

    And, my response if you look was to those that insult the intelligence of fans that are skeptical of JW3. That is truly insulting and invalid. The labeling of apologist/ or FSU dan 1st goes to those that can’t hold a discussion about our team and the play of the QB without going off on a defensive rant and insulting others.

  32. SteveK Says:

    Great posts St Pete and SmittyToilet!

  33. stpetebucsfan Says:


    You know I’m a fan of yours because of your writing skills and the fact that eschew hyperbole.

    I sometimes disagree not that often. Your simple truth post was very accurate what I call the old Dragnet Jack Webb approach. “Just the facts mam”.

    However I nitpick. Pot call the kettle black is a “little” harsh for Steve K.

    Jameis apologists literally exist here with NDOG obviously being leader of that pack. That is not an insult.

    FSU Honks? That one is a judgement call…certainly not a compliment but here are couple of compliments I’ve received….I’m clueless and my favorite I’m weak minded…LMAO. I do not really mind insults hurled my way….too old and my skin is now pretty thick.

    Perhaps because I read SteveK’s posts and consider him rational and thoughtful and not generally given to hyperbole I can easily give him a pass on FSU Honks.

    Of course I went to the Univ of Cinti not FSU…perhaps if he said UC honks…lol

  34. Joseph Mamma Says:

    As for Jameis’ season-ending interception, Clayton didn’t like the route Cameron Brate ran on the play. Brate was “drifting,” Clayton said, noting “as a receiver, you’re getting paid $7 million, run a $ 7 million route.”


    And for 20.9 million we should get a QB that throws spirals too.

  35. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Maybe I’m wrong with this thinking but most all of my recommendations are made with money in mind.
    Keep Winston if he is willing to make a team-friendly deal.
    Replace Dotson with a draft pick and save $3-4 million.
    Keep Suh if he takes a reduction (small) or replace him with our #1 pick….(several choices)
    Now….if we part with Beau Allen (recommended) & Brate (recommended)….we will have enough money for Suh…
    Keep Gholston….he doesn’t break the bank and is worth it.
    Pay Perriman & hammer out a deal with Godwin that pays him more next year in return for savings later.
    Contrary to most thinking, we are not totally flush with cash and have many FAs to resign, some to huge contracts.

    I”m drafting a RT, DT/DE & RB;;;not necessarily in that order….and Oline/Dline depth……

  36. Kenny Says:

    Sounds like football “experts” will just say any crazy s*** …. Yea, Jameis threw 30 picks because the WRs are awful…

    But all 31 other teams in the NFL have amazing receivers…

  37. lowercaseg Says:

    Lets sign tom brady

  38. tickrdr Says:


    Very nice posts!


  39. stpetebucsfan Says:


    Your plan is certainly solid and probably is the conventional wisdom.

    I still like LUV’s plan better. Sign JW…trade him to Miami for two of their MANY top draft picks…imagine the damage we could do in the draft.

    We sign a retread…Jean Lafitte recommended Tannehill but given the hassles with their top ‘savior” pick in the draft…after last night Jean and I both agree not likely the Titans let him go unless he wants too much money which then makes him undesirable for us as well.

    Joe is upset because we’ve struggled to find a franchise QB…as well as edge rushers in the draft…I maintain that’s as much a reflection on the Bucs horrible scouting over the years as the lack of young talent.

    However you define “young,” this has been the most productive season in NFL history for young quarterbacks.

    From the NFL’s 22-year-old MVP Lamar Jackson, to impressive rookies like Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and Gardner Minshew, to playoff quarterbacks like Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes, the league has seen a very promising influx of young passers.

  40. stpetebucsfan Says:


    Whenever I receive a compliment I consider the source. Coming from you that s high praise indeed. THX.

  41. ATrain Says:

    So No one else sees the problem with Jamies

    Throws behind the receivers

    Half his passes look like ducks flying through the air


    Know why his INT are increasing THE DEFENSE LOOKS AT FILMX

    You can say it’s the Defense oh not anymore so now it’s the kicker

    Oh wait and what about the receivers

    You know why Winston has 5000 yards because of his receivers catch the junk he throws

  42. Mr. Reality Says:

    NOLES…pretty much agree. I also agree Allen is more runner but he made some great throws..didn’t see careless to the point it got out of hand..and he is young. I’d take both over Winston because I don’t think Winston is fixable.

  43. Bobby M. Says:

    Winston deals with the same dynamics everyone else does. Take Tannehil for example, came in to a new system, didn’t get first team reps for a few weeks, still leads the league in passer rating and his team is in the playoffs.

    Frankly, if Brate’s route were bad, he’d been called out by Arians. Even Arians said Winston made the wrong read. Clayton’s takes are generally a bit bias towards certain players.

  44. lambchop Says:


    Why does anyone play the games? You could just save everyone the pain and play out the season for all teams on paper.

    Coulda, shoulda, woulda. If this had happened, if that happened. It’s a fun game.


  45. lambchop Says:


    You forgot to mention the 30 TDs and 5,000 yards are all Jameis Winston. He throws and catches his inaccurate passes!

  46. Bob in Valrico Says:

    I would not insult Suh by offering him less money.He is worth 10 million,IMO.
    He seems to be around the ball a good bit and I has good instincts and added a couple TD’s to our point totals.
    Count me in with DR and TBBF ,Will Gholston has played pretty well, and he and Vea play
    well with Suh. I don’t think Beau Allen had any contribution worth keeping him.

  47. Tackleblockwin Says:

    Guys, like I’ve said before I’m all for creative thinking. I’m not one who intends to offend or rudely challenge. However I will ask this question with upmost respect. If Jameis is such a bad QB and disliked as a person too, why would Miami want to trade for him?

  48. Bucsfan77 Says:

    Brady to TB, TB wins the SB IN Tampa, first time in NFL history.

  49. donuts Says:

    Great post with supportive stats…Mr Reality.

    We have the best WR tandem in the league. An slightly above average QB could make this team a playoff team. See what Tannehill did for TEN after replacing the Mariota experiment.

    Mr Entertainment is the problem. There are no fixes after 3 coaching regimes. He did this erratic play while not listening to coaching at FSU where he was not welcomed back by Jimbo, who tired of his BS. He plays with the same mental aptitude that he did in his last game at FSU where he got his ass beat badly by the Ducks. The whole 5000 yard thing is unimpressive. I would be MUCH more impressed with 22 TD. I’m shocked but not surprised some of the fans cannot see the reality after 5 years.

    I do think the Bucs will franchise Winston for 1-year per Arian’s request.
    This will be Arian’s last year. I dont see him coaching in 2021. Glazers will blow it all up after next year when Winston fails to bring this team to the playoffs while the rest of the team continues to improve. Winston will be a backup somewhere else and have to earn a starter spot elsewhere.

  50. NPRSageBoy. Says:

    Michael Clayton is all talk

  51. Pewter power Says:

    You only blame receivers so far, when throwing 4-5 interceptions in a game that is just a quarterback making top many bad decisions. 30 interceptions is way to much to start looking at receivers for the answer to why winston decides to throw to a certain receiver in the first place but nice try I get it. Blame the reciever for the season ending pick 6.

    His issue is a lot of times he sees it too late and is too arrogant to realize arm talent wont bail him out. I dont see it ever changing based on his last press conference despite the way the season ended. Dude just doesnt seem to care about the picks. 18 ok but 30 lol nah that is decision making skills.

  52. Ndog Says:

    This distain for our QB is just really sad. I guess every fan base has those that just don’t understand football and spew nonsense. I guess most of our’s just cannot shut up and must post their CLUELESSNESS every flipping day. That’s all I have today.

  53. firethecannons Says:

    I believe the OC could call plays that are more quarterback friendly and the receivers could run more crisp routes and come up to the ball and start fighting for it more, more fight for the ball drills.Stop giving Winston so much choice, he cant make decisions in the blink of an eye well. I believe we could sell OJ as that kid tips the ball to other team often. I believe we could get a run game like the Titans have and stop throwing 300-400 yards a game. JW has 5000+yds-nice but of course that leads to way more int’s. If you keep Winston, you damn well better have a plan on reigning in the interceptions because just letting him loose with his weapons in a high octane offense will get you 2019 in a hurry!

  54. Bucsfan951 Says:

    So I’m going to compare this to business since that’s what I know.

    It’s like a business sold 63 jobs the entire yr. 33 of those jobs, your company made money (tds). 30 of them, your company broke even and you made not a single dollar (ints). And 7 of those jobs, you actually lost money on those jobs (pick 6’s). Sprinkle in a couple of more jobs where you did them but didn’t make anything (fumbles).

    Now tell me, how long can a business sustain that type of production before having to close its doors. I can answer that for you… not too long!

    More jobs need to be completed in the black rather than in the red or b/e. It’s that simple.

  55. Ndog Says:

    By the way what do I apologize for in terms of OUR QB? I state absolute facts that have been proven or stated by the coaches of our team. The fact that you don’t want to believe is not apologizing for anything. If anyone actually reads what I post it is factual including when OUR QB plays like crap or makes a horrible throw. I’m a season ticket holder and have been before OUR QB was even in highschool. I just have a brain and realize that the circumstances that OUR QB has been playing under is not something anyone can win with. I literally said last night to a friend of mine, if we have the defense we had the last half of this year and kicker that can make a flipping important keep kick and OUR QB is healthy and we lose games then yeah get him outta here. But that has not happened yet and until it does I am of the opinion he is the man for the job. Numbers are numbers and they can be twisted any way you want which I have certainly done and that has absolutely been done to me. But FACTS are since JAMEIS WINSTON has been in Tampa we have never put around him an average defense, an average running game and an average kicking game at the same time. Notice I didn’t say great or top 10 I said average. Meanwhile the passing game which he is the leader of is the sole reason we are even in games yet people want to blame him for losses. It is literally the stupidest thing I have seen in my life yet people act like it’s gospil. I expect it from the national people who don’t watch us play or even know who 90% of our players are so they blame the one guy they know, but from people who watch the games it’s ridiculously stupid.

  56. Adrnagy Says:

    Same post every time. Joe just go around with the blame. I’m going to the casino

  57. Pugs&Bucs Says:

    I would throw Michael Clayton a cinder block if he was drowning, but a lot of the “out” routes run by Bucs receivers don’t look like “7s.” They look like upside down J’s .

  58. WillieG Says:

    It’s the lack of defense, it’s the lack of a running game, it’s the offensive line, it’s the play calling, it’s the receivers, it’s the wind. It’s everything other than Jameis.

    But who is to blame for Jameis taking stupid penalties like intentional grounding and an illegal forward pass, both of which resulted in a loss of down at a crucial time in the game? I’m going to go ahead and place the blame squarely on the shoulders of his Pee Wee Football coach because every kid playing organized football knows to not do that stupid crap.

  59. Ndog Says:

    WillieG Says:
    January 5th, 2020 at 11:40 am
    It’s the lack of defense, it’s the lack of a running game, it’s the offensive line, it’s the play calling, it’s the receivers, it’s the wind. It’s everything other than Jameis.

    But who is to blame for Jameis taking stupid penalties like intentional grounding and an illegal forward pass, both of which resulted in a loss of down at a crucial time in the game? I’m going to go ahead and place the blame squarely on the shoulders of his Pee Wee Football coach because every kid playing organized football knows to not do that stupid crap.

    See this is what I am taking about just complete and utter cluelessness. So you point out two penalities. Did you know that the great Shaq who everyone loves so much had the second most off-sides penalities in the league this year? Yeah it’s doesn’t matter right cause he lead the league in sacks. But with Jameis let’s just look for the negative.

    Yeah in the Houston game Jameis made the exact same type of play where he was just behind the line on a ridiculously great throw to Watson for a TD.

    Also just like I said in the post above, without him and the passing game we literally are talking about possibly 0-16.

    Simple questions, ask yourselves these:

    Have we been a good running team over the past 5 years?

    Have we been a good defense over the past 5 years?

    Have we had a good kicker over the last 5 years?

    Have we had a dominant offensive line over the past 5 years?

    Have we had a good passing have over the last 5 years?

    So be very simple, answer those questions and then you can see what the problems and strengths have been and from there you work to get better. You people literally want to do the opposite and there is no refuting the above, NONE!

  60. Lavonte 1of1 Says:

    It seems that it’s always someone else’s fault for INT’s. Especially when Jameis throws it right to a defender. He pretty fortunate he ended with only 30 because if some defenders could catch there was a lot of potential INT’s dropped.

  61. Ndog Says:

    Lavonte 1of1 Says:
    January 5th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
    It seems that it’s always someone else’s fault for INT’s. Especially when Jameis throws it right to a defender. He pretty fortunate he ended with only 30 because if some defenders could catch there was a lot of potential INT’s dropped.

    Yet again avoids the questions and deflect.

  62. JP_09 Says:

    NDOG here’s two question for you:

    If Jamie’s is the only one who can “run” this offense, why are you so worried about bringing in competition?

    Would you rather have Henry or Gordon, Bulaga and a RD1 rookie QB or Winston? Because for what Winston wants you could upgrade the OLine and RB positions immediately, you’d also be able to return the most of the key Defensive free agents which in turn would improve our team and help a young QB out

    And the last question, Do you want what’s best for the Bucs or what’s best for Jameis?

    The answers to your Qs are no, no, no, not a dominant OLine but an above average one (especially in pass pro), and not sure what question 5 is asking. the QB plays has also been sub par

  63. JP_09 Says:

    *guess that was three questions

  64. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Listen, NPUPPY is correct. Our kicking game was weak, our running game (average yard per run) wasn’t great, and our defense sucked most of the yr. There’s really no arguing that. You can argue the defense due to Winston giving up the ball like a madman!!! 121 points off of turnovers isn’t anything to ignore. This team has a lot of work before they can become worthy of a playoff spot. Do I think they’re far off?… hard to tell. Depending on who they resign, sign in f/a, draft, and development. They have to stop shooting themselves in the foot!

    With that said, NPUPPY isn’t wrong. He just chooses to ignore the hard facts with Winston and his turnover issue last season.

    There isn’t a better option at qb at this point so I say tag him and let’s give him 1 more yr in this system.

    Do you agree NPUPPY?

  65. donuts Says:

    ndog We get it…you are in denial. BTW you forgot the eyesight issue. I bet that will be your fresh Winston has NO responsibility tour 2020.

    The difference between most of us and you is we see thru the BS. Like this article, blaming WR routes. What about the 80+ high throws this year which some resulted in TO.

    In the latest podcast, there was a comparison between Montana/Clark “the catch” and the last pass to Perriman for a TD in the 2ndQ. Really bad comparison. The one big omission in the comparison was the fact Winston threw it up and had terrible feet (none on ground- see all 22 film) whereas Montana threw in stride and zinged it to the corner of the end zone. Its called franchise QB play. Lastly, nothing says you are a mediocre QB than scoring NO points in the second half of the final game of season to end with a passing stat of 13-24 202 yards- 50% wont cut it in the NFL. Blame Gay all you want but its more than bad kicking going on the field. A franchise QB is and always will be the difference maker. We dont have one.

  66. stpetebucsfan Says:


    I like you…you’re a fellow Buc fan…Floridian…proud American..

    But really…you need to quit while you’re behind. (another Wycheism)

    Or as is frequently said…when you’re in a hole quit digging!

    From a clueless weak minded friend.

  67. Ndog Says:

    You guys don’t get it, why would I talk about the TOs when that is all you guys have. Literally there is nothing else you can say so I constantly am the voice of reason. Of course there are TOs that are his fault but situations (penalities, oline, poor routes, playcalling, tipped balls, etc) also help create the opportunity for TOs. That is what I keep trying to tell you and I as just posted on this very thread if we have the second half defense next year, a reliable kicker next and any running game and Jameis throws 20-25 picks them see ya but I believe after being given crap from the other components of this team from day one he deserves the chance to win with this team once it’s not a one facet team trying to win games. Everyone has their opinion and I have mine the only difference is mine is correct 😏.

  68. T REX Says:

    ndog, I don’t like you. I think you are a scourge on our franchise. A pimple on the behind of the Bucs. You idolize a loser and a piece of garbage. You actually want Winston to go somewhere and be successful to hurt the Bucs. You are POS. And that’s being nice. Make sure you leave with Winston when he goes…don’t forget your Winston blow up dolls either.

  69. Alanbucsfan Says:

    Clayton has been a Jameis excuse maker all year
    On Gay’s missed kicks vs Giants and Falcons- how many TD’s did Jameis’ led offense generate in the 2nd half of those games? That would be 0.

  70. Bucsfan951 Says:

    NPUPPY: I think ppl, myself included, don’t think you understand the ramifications of all of those ints. 121 points off of Winston turnovers! 1 int at the saints 1 yard line which should’ve been a td. 121 points!!! 7.5 points per game. A lot of turnovers in bucs territory which leads to a short field. We understand tipped balls, wrong routes and such and you’re right about that. But it’s not like Winston is the only qb to have that happen to him.

    Yes, better play by our defense, better kicking, better run game, better play calling and probably more could’ve equaled more wins. But don’t act like the turnovers by Winston wasn’t crippling to this team.

    Now, I normally ding you as much as possible and I get a laugh out of it. I don’t want to keep ragging on you anymore as it’s just not fun to keep schooling you with facts on Winston.

    With that said, I broke down every game with winstons turnovers and where it happened on the field and when it lead to points. Would you like that breakdown for your viewing pleasure? It’s messy as I did it on my notes app on my phone.

  71. stpetebucsfan Says:


    “If Jameis is such a bad QB and disliked as a person too, why would Miami want to trade for him?”

    That is an excellent question TBW. And indeed they may be too smart to buy a pig in a poke…or they may go gaga at 5000 yards and a gazillion TDs to go along with the gazillion ints. OK gazillion is hyperbole lol

    But I certainly take your point TBW and it is the fly in the ointment. Unless Miami feels like some of our posters…that JW is FINALLY ready to blow up.

    And in fact I’m not sure he wouldn’t in that lamearse division and actually since they are in the other conference I would root for JW’s success. It’s not personal. I’m just over the drama.

    To steal from Ms McEnroe…Patty Smyth

    There’s a reason why people don’t stay where they are.
    Baby, sometimes love just ain’t enough.

  72. Ndog Says:

    Trex I don’t care what you think. For the record I don’t idolize anyone I just want what’s best for my team, you know the team I put time, effort, money and energy into. And BTW yet again you have no answer for my FACTS you just try to insult due to your lack of FACTS to prove me wrong. This is common place for you but it’s ok I understand how you feel I wouldn’t like being proved wrong either time and time again.

  73. Alanbucsfan Says:

    All the passing yards and TD passes are because of Jameis and all the turnovers and losses are because of poor secondary, poor running game , poor route running and poor kicking…

    Licht and Arians, Got that?

  74. Stanglassman Says:

    The bottom line is that the interceptions and pre-snap penalties need to go down. The lack of production out of the run game is unacceptable too. That means better OL run blocking by drafting a RT and Rb. Special teams needs to improve across the board.

  75. T REX Says:

    ndogpoop – LOL. Great. Your facts leave out the TRUTH. Winston sucks. The first 30/30 loser ever. He’s a POS. Your a POS. You guys are on the same level. LOSERS. I don’t care about your lies and propaganda. Winston is garbage. We won’t win anything with him and he won’t win anything anywhere else either. So, again, make sure you pack your Winston dolls and bags when he goes. I’ll help. Hell, I’ll pay for it just to get rid of your garbage. You’re just a stain on the underwear of the Bucs.

  76. Ndog Says:

    Again Trex you have nothing but your blind rage and complete lack of football knowledge and you prove it time and time again. Grow up tough guy.

  77. Lavonte 1of1 Says:

    Again it appears everything has to be perfect for Candyman to succeed.

  78. Bucsfan951 Says:

    GLASSMAN: you’re right! Pretty much all aspects across the board needs improvement. There’s no denying that.

  79. Ndog Says:

    Lavonte can you read I said at least average. If average means perfect them you have quite the difference in expectations than most.

  80. Defense Rules Says:

    TBBF … Love your 2020 plan with 1 exception: Bucs almost certainly can’t afford to pay Godwin this year AND allocate $85-$90 mil to keep our defense. Like you, I believe that money is an inescapable reality in TEAM-BUILDING. We’ve got $210 mil to work with to ‘feed’ 53 players. Just checked Spotrac and we’ve already allocated $72.2 mil to the highest paid 15 OFFENSIVE players we have under contract for 2020: ME13, D Smith, Marpet, Jensen, Brate, OJ, RoJo, Griffin, Godwin, Cappa, Watson, Logan, Stinnie, Miller, Bailey (we have another 6 under contract but they make relatively little & odds are good they won’t be on the team next season).

    Now add in salaries for the missing ‘pieces’: (1) a starting QB; (2) a starting RT; (3) a starting RB; (4) a starting 3rd WR; (5) 1 more RB; (6) 2 more TEs; (7) at least 2 more OLinemen; (8) at least 1 more WR … an additional 10 players to bring us up to 25 on OFFENSE. Just for Winston the franchise tag would be $27 mil, bringing us up to $100 mil for our offense … with 9 OTHER players (some starters) still to pay. Even if 4 of those are rookies (OT, RB plus 2 others) making rookie salaries, I don’t see any way we could bring our offense in for less than $120-$130 mil in 2020. And we can’t afford to spend that much on our offense and STILL build a strong DEFENSE. The numbers just don’t work.

  81. Stanglassman Says:

    Fun fact-
    T-rex’s brain was larger than the human brain, but the cerebrum (the part of the brain that we use to think) was tiny.

    Perfect screen name?

  82. mark2001 Says:

    When did Clayton show he knows much of anything about receiving? Never. Blocking…sure.. he could block. But tired of these second rate guys that built the Bucs teams like the ones swimming in the septic system, spouting off about something they know obviously nothing aboutl.

    BTW Son…we have one of the best receiving corps in the league.

  83. Lavonte 1of1 Says:

    Jameis has not been a clutch QB. It seems when the team needs him most he melts like ice-cream.

  84. Mr. Reality Says:

    It took a10-6 recomd to limp into the playoffs this year. Could easily be 11-5 for wild card in the NFC in the future. I can’t believe morons saying with the picks the Bucs would be 9-7 is Gay didn’t blow two games. As a rookie kicker. So what does 9-7 and 5,000 yards get you? Third place in the division and sitting out the playoffs for the 12th year?

    Winston losses due to poor decisions/his turnovers: SF, CAR2, NO2, TEN, HOU, ATL. That’s six games. He avoids multiple turnovers…cuts them in HALF, they COULD have beaten beat HOU, TEN, ATL. That is, if he were an AVERAGE QB with an AVERAGE D they could have been 10-6. They beat ARI and IND BARELY. Both were wins by the D in games that Winston tried to LOSE. And those where the ONLY home wins this year. TWO! Does that make you want to run out and buy season tix? Do you want to listen Arians again say they want to figure out which were his fault AGAIN? They did that. And I’d have hoped they knew which ones were his “fault” after the games to correct it for NEXT games. Guess what? They DID know and he DIDN’T correct. This three week review is Jameis Winston’s trial. GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!

    Someone above commented that one person doesn’t lose games. Yes, they do. Especially when the mistakes are turnovers committed over and over again for the same reasons week after week, year after year.

  85. Mr. Reality Says:

    ^^^record (not recomd)

  86. Mr. Reality Says:

    Thanks Donuts

  87. Mr. Reality Says:

    Night and difference watching playoffs so far. What do we see? Turnovers make a difference in the game. Good teams use them to BEAT YOU. Good teams don’t commit multiples in the playoffs and if they do, they don’t win the game.

    Winston can pull the handle and get 777 now and then. While he can never get to the playoffs, can this guy gamble and get 777 for three games it would take to get to the SB? NO! And someone else mentioned it above…even Michael Clayton doesn’t think Winston will take a team to the SB.

  88. Buczilla Says:

    Next someone will say it was aliens, flashing girls in the stands, or mind control by the opposing coach that makes Jameis act the fool with all of his turnovers. I want him back next year but not if I keep hearing all of these pathetic excuses for all of Jameis’s buffoonery. 5 years without a shred of proof that he can change is just about my limit.

    Jameis showed just barely enough last year to deserve one last shot at being a franchise guy. However, if it will cost us having to jettison a player that actually deserves a big time contract (JPP, Shaq, Godwin), then I couldn’t kick Jameis off the team fast enough.

  89. Hoops Says:

    Never heard that term drifting to describe a receiver. what does that mean? I think Brate and OJ got a crappy game plan to deal with these last two years, and if they were smart they would look elsewhere where they could be used effectively. Tampa is nowhere that a good TE would want to be.

  90. Nole4JabooANDdBucs Says:

    Jameis NEVER calls his receivers out and Dirk absolutely didn’t! Bruce has been a little more candid, but the Jameis bashers didn’t like it.

    It’s all on tape and in BA’s scheme. I told my daughter just last week how retired receivers defend JW and like his play.

    Dink and donk passing will not feed ME and CG, becareful what you ask for

  91. T REX Says:

    gl-ASS-man: nic smack? OK. You asked for it. LOL.

    memo to Winston nut huggers: Your boy is trash. No one is winning anything with those turnovers. Sorry. Please exit stage left. Your uber is waiting.

  92. Im tired and 87 is right Says:

    Jameis the man will be back! You like that? Go Bucs!

  93. wantstastayabuc Says:

    Fitzpatrick > or = to Winston with these weapons.

    This =
    Winston is a waste of money and a drag on this team unless Winston is cheap cheap cheap.

    But hey, he “ballin'”

    Go throw 30 int for someone else.

  94. wantstastayabuc Says:

    The dumpster fire that is our QB is the stuff of mockery even when he is in his usual postseason position: at home with his feet up on the couch.

  95. Im tired and 87 is right Says:

    Who……..cares????? Jameis will be back with the Bucs. Simple as that! Go Bucs!