Bucs Beating Bucs

December 31st, 2019


Joe offers a break in the wall-to-wall coverage of Decision Jameis 2020 to bring you news of a culprit that likely was as lethal (or maybe more) than the giveaways by Mr. Entertainment.

The following came as a surprise to Joe but not a shock.

The Bucs led the NFL in penalties last year, finishing the season with 133, one more than the Jags.

The biggest culprit came on offense where the Bucs were whistled for 23 false starts and 21 holding penalties. Those are drive-killers.

That works out to nearly three times a game the offense stubbed its toe with a holding or false start penalty.

On defense, the issue was penalties on pass defense. The Bucs had 11 pass interference calls against them and 11 defensive holding penalties flagged against them. That’s lethal because those keep opponents’ drives alive.

Of the top-third of NFL teams in penalties, only two teams made the playoffs.

Arians coined the phrase earlier this year that the problem with the Bucs was “Bucs beating Bucs.” In response to a question JoeBucsFan.com columnist and star of the internationally-popular “Ira Kaufman Podcast,” Arians said that ish is going to end.

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We WILL be hard to beat.

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36 Responses to “Bucs Beating Bucs”

  1. Ndog Says:

    Guess what all those offensive penalities also lead to, predictable situations. What do predictable situations lead too, TOs. But we all know Jameis false started, and Jameis held. But it’s all cleaned up right Bruce, and the kicking game is fixed right Bruce and the defense is dominating right Bruce?

    Please ignore the 3 missed FGs, the numerous off-sides penalities that extended drives Sunday and the game tying drive by a 6 win team on the road in the final second cause those would be my failures. Look at that pick 6, boy it was awful right guys, buy don’t forget I’m great and he’s why we lost.

  2. BrianBucs Says:

    The Buc’s opponents scored 117 points off of Winston’s turnovers.
    I think that’s pretty lethal. Mix that with the penalties and it’s hard to overcome.

  3. adam from ny Says:

    people are going easy on matt gay…

    but the dude was shaky at times…a lot this year…

    jameis was really pissed off…visibly pissed off on either the 2nd or 3rd gay miss…and it was caught on camera…


  4. cmurda Says:

    We definitely need to clean it up but may I ask how many of those penalties were complete horse manure?

  5. Ndog Says:

    You know I must admit all off season on Profootball Talk all I read from Cardinals fans was how Bruce Arians was all about him and threw everyone else under the bus when things went wrong and I didn’t believe it. Well after a year of watching for myself boy were they right. How did this team improve, where is he ever taking blame? Let’s look at our problems from last year shall we:

    Kicking nope cost us two games.
    Penalities nope worst in the league.
    Pass defense nope 30th out of 32 teams.
    TOs nope worst in the NFL
    Running game nope 24th in the NFL.

    So he fixed what exactly?????

  6. Adrnagy Says:

    I have to clean up your opinion. Remember Bruce has said half of the turnovers are not jameis fault ?
    So to your point. 117 divide by two =58

    So 58 points off Winston turnover can be overcome. If Bucs don’t beat Bucs. Of course the defense stopping at least one time ONE time the other team drives in the second half.

    Brian bucs @
    117pts off Winston turnovers.

  7. AlteredEgo Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    Not blaming refs on the W&L’s….but they DO call games differently for different teams…
    and on returns….a block in the back is not a hand on the back whirling around changing directions….it should be called as the rule was written and is to protect a player from being laid flat blindsided..a general pet peeve of mine
    especially away from the play

  8. AlteredEgo Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    NDog….thankfully all the influence you have is posting your opinions

  9. adam from ny Says:

    attention glazers;

    why can’t you guys get a good art team or graphics team in and fix and re-work the uniforms…

    let’s get all flexed out in this pewter color already…

    what are you waiting for…the time is now…

    if you don’t wanna do it at least change the horrid color rush unis from that horrid red to a wicked all pewter look…

    now’s the time…the seats are freakin empty

    jameis plays bad at home because he feels bad at home…

    the bucs play bad at home because they feel bad at home…

    i go to games and i feel bad looking at all the baron seats…

    no one cheers…it’s all lackluster…please help us…there is an atmosphere issue at ray jay and it is affecting the team…

    jameis can’t even see…squinting like magoo…

    please fix stuff before arians gets fed up and bails out…

    the time is now

  10. Tye Says:

    It would have been interesting to see IF Blaine Gabbert never got hurt, would JW still have started all season?

    remember after the London game he was asked about his concern about JW playing this poorly and he said If JW played like that again, he would be very concerned!

  11. chris L Says:

    agreed and he said this would end. to say these hurt more than the turnovers is not true. turnovers lose games as does penalties but turnovers are waaaaay worse.

  12. zzbuc Says:

    All the things quoted are right Ndog….But you ommit the most important that is QB stats, the goods and the bads.
    Bruce didn´t fix penalties? no…
    Bruce didn´t fix JW? no…

    Everybody knows that the last 5 yeasr were really bad, we all know that defense has been a major problem on the last 5 years, penalties too, but guess what? One of the biggest problems is that thq QB turns the ball over to much, and you seem
    to be the only one who doesn´t get it…..

    That been salid, tyhe next question is…on the free agency or the draft can we replace JW with something better?

    That´s a different story…..

  13. cmurda Says:

    @Ndog. This is where we disagree. I think B.A. is amazing. When guys fail to do their job, many people like to blame coaching. There are times when that may be true, but a kicker doing his job is not coaching. It’s the dude nutting up when kicking a FG. Let’s stop right there. Dude missed 2 30+ yard FG’s that directly cost us 2 games. I wanted him cut after Sunday’s debacle but actually he had a decent year so I guess we have to keep him. He will need to prove himself in clutch situations though. I don’t pin a 50+ yd fg miss as to the reason the Seahawks won, but that could have been a win too. Penalties – I’ll give you. Coaching does play into that. Turnovers are your boy man. You can’t conveniently bring up turnovers as a coaching point when debating the coaching vs Winston. LOL. Nice try though. Running game. ROJO came into his own under Lefty and B.A but he is being handled with kid gloves while he develops. He has struggled in pass protection and has put the ball on the carpet a bit too much. I do think we need to get nastier up front and draft a RT. Pass rusher or O Line in 1st round.

  14. adam from ny Says:

    during our amazing 1979 season, doug williams threw only 18 tds and a whopping 24 ints…and he threw under 400 passes…

    wild sheet…

    if he threw 600 times like jameis he was on a trajectory of say 40 ints…

    wild sheet

  15. adam from ny Says:

    also his career numbers are pretty sheety…but his big superbowl game for the skins was incredible

  16. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I would presume that interceptions fit under the category of Bucs beating Bucs also…..
    There are other miscues……missed blocking assignments…..wrong routes run….

  17. godlovesbucs Says:

    So I found some intriguing stats on the Defense that makes me think they were an average d.

    Opponent Yards Per Play: 5.1 7th best
    Opponent Comp %: 61.45% 8th best
    Pass yards per attempt: 6.5 13th best
    Rush yards per attempt: 3.3 1st
    Takeaways per game: 1.8 5th Best
    Opp. points per game: 28.1 29th (including the pick 6’s)
    Adjusted opp PPG: 25 24th (just taking out the int for td’s)
    Plays per game: 67.1 29th

    The worst stat is the Points per game. It is safe to assume that number is inflated due to the short fields the D had to defend, but there is no way to determine that. If you look at yards per play and not total yards, the d actually did very well, in the top half in most categories and top 10 in many. They also forced quite a bit of turnovers.

    Is it unrealistic to look at this and realize the d gave up so many yards because they were on the field more often? Their yards per play and comp % were both in the top 10.

  18. stpetebucsfan Says:


    Your posting has fallen prey to a fatal flaw. Have you never heard the old saw about not making your own furniture any better by chopping up your neighbors.

    NOBODY has suggested the team doesn’t have areas of improvement. All we are saying is that improvement should start…but not END…with fixing the most important position…QB.

    Pointing out that other players suck does not make JW suck any less…it’s as simple as that!

  19. Wesley Says:

    7 pick six’s don’t help either.

  20. Mister Negative Nancy Says:


  21. godlovesbucs Says:

    Ndog- the d held up their part of turnovers, 5th best in the league.
    The d was also 30th in yards per game, but 7th in yards per play. Being on the field more was part turnovers by the offense and part drive extending penalties.

  22. #1bucfan Says:

    NDOG look at our record. An yea our defense has bin horrible. Check the stats for yourself bro ever since jpp came back our defense has played a lot better than the stats say. All YOU do is throw everyone else under the bus but Winston. How much is Winston paying you to defend him. Get off his nuts bro. Winston doesn’t even know who you are or cares about you. Your making yourself look an sound stupid. Pretty much your a full blown idiot now

  23. Bucco Edd Says:

    The 5 least penalized teams all did not make the playoffs.

    The 5 teams with the most turnovers didnt make the playoffs either. Philly at 12th on the total giveaway list.

    Turn overs matter wayyyy more than penalites.

  24. Bird Says:

    St pete

    Nailed it
    Shocker …ndog is blaming arians now. It was raheem…it was koetter and now arians

    Here s a thought …it jamies
    I wonder if ndogs house is full of jameis fat heads
    Some with clothes on and some not
    So creepy

  25. Ndog Says:

    You guys giving your opinion is great and I like Arians as well BUT when asked how he can help reduce Jameis’s TOs these were the things he pointed too and none of them are better. I am just pointing that out, am I wrong are these stats wrong? Did our kicker not miss bug kicks, did our defense not lose us multiple games, did we not lead the league in penalities, did we not still have a crap tone of TOs? I’m just saying it’s great to say things but what did he do this year?

  26. mark2001 Says:

    Wow… some of you guys are totally lost. It isn’t about the stats the first half of the season for the D, or Offense. Especially the D, that had so many first year Bucs, many of them first or second year pros, that were learning their craft, so you have to look at how they grew as the seaon progressed. Did they grow and become good enough to offset the ongoing Offensive Cluster? Yes they did. Did TJ and Cappa grow? Yes. But then, some didn’t seem to learn a thing…. and they need to go elsewhere.

  27. Ndog Says:

    Why would I need to point out what Jameis does wrong you guys literally do that every post. Therefore I feel the need to bring balance and correct your constant inaccurate posts. Also Bird you are yet again showing how CLUELESS you are cause Jameis never played for Raheem. How creepy is it that you are so unbelievably lost when it comes to football yet you still post garbage nonstop.

  28. Ndog Says:

    But since you asked below is what Jameis needs to get better at:

    1. He predetermines throws based upon the defense too often and sticks with those throws instead of reading out the play.

    2. He stays with his first read too long at times.

    3. He cares too many others happy instead of just playing the game.

    4. He doesn’t decide to run soon enough at times which causes some sacks.

  29. JimmyJack Says:

    NDog that is a blatent case of cherry picking. To read it and hear you’re conclusion asking what he fixed is actually kinda disturbing.

    You didn’t even mention the four major phases of football(Run D, Pass D, Run O, Pass O) except for the one we didn’t improve in. That unequivocally renders your post as cherry picking in it’s purest form.

    -Run Defense……improved
    -Pass defense……improved
    -Pass offense…….improved
    -Run Offense……..not improved

    But even if you are going to focus on smaller parts of the game you quite obvisously left out any area that the team did improve at.

    -Redzone offense…..improved
    -Points scored…….improved
    -Third down conversions………Same…..But pretty sure this has improved in second half

    -Short yardage offense……not improved
    -Short yardage defense……..improved
    -Defensive third down rate……improved
    -Defensive turnovers……improved
    -Defensive points allowed…….improved over second half
    -Redzone defense……..I don’t know.

    But then again you did say the pass defense is not fixed which is entirely false to anybody who watched the season unfold.

  30. 74 Bucs fan Says:

    5. He throws the ball to the wrong team often.

  31. BucsFanSince1976 Says:

    Bucs run defense was the best run defense in the NFL in last 10 years and one of the best in NFL history.

    Lavonte David has the numbers to go to HOF.

    Devin White is a beast and will only get better.

  32. Buczilla Says:

    Excessive penalties and sissy a$$ rules are slowly but surely ruining the NFL for me. It’s also beyond dumb when there are 100 different ways to interpret whether a catch is a catch. The 1999 NFC Championship game is still fresh in my mind. At this point I’d rather they just do away with instant replay so that there aren’t constant game stoppages. Half the time, the idiot in New York doesn’t reverse bad calls anyway.

  33. JimmyJack Says:

    Buczilla I agree totally. Instant replay hasn’t made the officiating better whatsoever. Actually think there were far less blown calls before instant replay.

    Really don’t see the point if every freaking year during the playoffs there is at least one game with drama surrounding a ruling on the field. It happens each and every one of year without fail. You watch and it’ll happen again. So what is replay freaking good for?

  34. Buczilla Says:

    JimmyJack The only rationale that I can come up with for the replays, is that it gives them an excuse to run more commercials. Or I guess maybe they truly are this incompetent.

  35. BigMacAttack Says:

    Refs suck. All teams hold. The Bucs just get called every time where teams like the Saints and Patriots don’t. Fire all the refs.

  36. Troy Says:

    The penalties need to get cleaned up, but seriously, the 5 least penalized teams in the league were the Colts, Giants, Panthers, Dolphins, and Bengals. Will it help? Yep. Does it make you a playoff team? Nope. Not leading the league in turning the ball over sure does though. That tells you everything you need to know on whether or not you make the playoffs. Only 4 teams who where a plus on the plus/minus in turnovers didn’t make the playoffs (Steelers, Colts, Broncos, Redskins). And before you say we did get enough takeaways, the Bucs were 5th in the league with 28. We cannot have a QB who throws 30 interceptions. We also can’t fumble the ball 11 times. It’s all just inexcusable.