The Soul Of A Player

November 14th, 2019

Explains simple demands.

Football is a crazy game. Often, a player is at the mercy of both his coaches and his opponents.

But yesterday in the wake of the release of former first-round pick Vernon Hargreaves, who was shown the door Tuesday, Arians yesterday explained his two basic core beliefs that he demands out of his players.

“You control your attitude and your effort,” Arians said. “You don’t control a lot of things, but you control those two. And they better be good.”

Joe doesn’t find anything unreasonable about that.

It seems Hargreaves failed in Arians’ latter demand at least .

The only thing Joe has to type about Arians booting Hargreaves is his team timing. Clearly the coaches had to know the Bucs’ secondary is flat garbage — how could they not?

And it is pretty clear Hargreaves had been on double-secret probation for some time. The trade deadline was roughly two weeks ago.

If they knew — and the Bucs did know — that Hargreaves was on thin ice and that their secondary was lousy — how could they not? — it is negligent the organization didn’t go out and get help in the secondary.

This secondary has single-handedly dragged down this Bucs team. So fully ignoring the rotten secondary and refusing to go out and get starting help there not only cost the Bucs a shot at making a wild card run, but is shameful to dedicated Bucs fans.

At least Bucs fans can find solace that there is one less loafer on the roster.

All hail, Dean Arians!

21 Responses to “The Soul Of A Player”

  1. Tbbucs3 Says:

    This is why BA likes Jameis and hates players like VH3. Say what you want about Jameis but one thing he does not lack is effort.

    I’m sure Jameis is still showing up at the facilities at 5 am every morning while VH3 was more concerned about his Instagram page.

  2. teacherman777 Says:

    He was more interested in looking good than developing.

    He had twice the talent as Ronde Barber but less than half of his heart.

    Vernon Hargreaves had no right wearing the sacred number #28.

    #28 should never be worn. Warrick Dunn is a saint and a Bucs legend.

    Warrick Dunn was also the Ultimate “Underdogg God.”

    Vernon Hargreaves is a rich kid from Plant High School.

    South Tampa kids are spoiled rotten and anybody coming out of Plant High School is a spoiled and soft player.

    I want DB’s from the Dirty South. Not “South Tampa.”

    Go Bucs!

  3. ClwJB Says:

    He didn’t go to Plant – he went to Wharton

    I went to plant and am in no way a spoiled rich kid just had hard working parents

    You want some Robinson DBs?

  4. Hodad Says:

    Joe, with six DB’s picked in the last 2 drafts the Bucs couldn’t use more draft capital trading for a veteran corner. Lictht, and BA made this bed before the season, going all young, and drafting all secondary. Letting VH.03 go is another slap in the face of Lictht’s ability to find a decent DB. You want vet’s back there you’ll have to wait for the guys we have to become veterans.

  5. Defense Rules Says:

    Agree with you 100% on this Joe. There’s no excuse for the Bucs not adding a veteran CB to this Secondary and instead going with VHIII as the veteran (and oh yes, retaining MJ Stewart in another slot).

    That’s largely on Jason Lightweight, but not totally. If BA had put his foot down and said ‘We can’t win with these CBs; find us a veteran corner’ then Gump would’ve done exactly that. BA knew in training camp who VHIII was and surely knew how he’d perform as a starting outside corner.

    My guess is that Ryan Smith getting suspended, Jamel Dean getting hurt, and SMB coming along slower than anticipated caught BA & TB unawares. But still, there’s no excuse IMO for not doing a deal for someone like Marcus Peters when the opportunities presented themselves. Of course, I’m still ticked that we didn’t grab Kenyon Drake when he became available. My guess is that Gump had no idea either opportunity was there until it was too late.

  6. Pickgrin Says:

    Just stop with the whining about not making a trade for “secondary help” before the trade deadline Joe.

    You don’t go out and buy “help for the secondary” with so much draft capital already spent on that position. Especially in the midst of a losing season.

    This season was done when we lost the Giants game realistically and was definitively done after getting manhandled and basically embarrassed by a superior division opponent (without their HOF QB) in New Orleans.

    We have our secondary players in Davis, Dean, SMB, Whitehead and Edwards (and Justin Evans if he can ever get healthy).

    That’s three 2nd rd picks, two 3rds and a 4th. Like I said – a lot of draft capital – and thats not even counting the 1st for Hargreaves and the 2nd rd pick for MJ Stewart which basically just have to be written off as losses at this point….

    These young secondary players have the talent to succeed in this league and good coaches to help them get there – they just need live snaps to get better and we are already seeing that happen.

  7. Adam Lakers Carolla Says:


    This fansite isn’t short on ignorant takes, but me thinks yours wins going away. Speaking of going away…

  8. JP_09 Says:

    Never understood why they didn’t go after Morris Claiborne in the off season, he had his best year as a pro under Bowles last year and was cheap do you his 4 game suspension. Definitely would’ve been worth the risk at 1.5 mil for the season. All I can think is Bowles didn’t like him for some reason or felt he wouldn’t be a good fit

  9. Allbuccedup Says:

    VH3 is just another reason BA is BS remember secondary totally fixed, retire already.

  10. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I’m with Pickgrin on this one….

    We just drafted 2 CBs this year and 2 last year……there is no way we should be adding a veteran at the trade deadline…..and Joe or no one knows if we tried and failed or not. Perhaps we tried and the price was too high….or we couldn’t get the player to come here and he chose another team….

    Let’s go with what we have……the timing on VH3 isn’t good unless Carlton Davis recovers quickly…..we have MJ Stewart hurt……so we may have to go with
    Ryan Smith, SMB & Dean….(where is the backup?)……that’s pretty thin.

  11. Defense Rules Says:

    Pickgrin & TBBF … There’s no doubt in my mind that Davis, Dean, SMB, Whitehead & Edwards are THE FUTURE, but their growth has been slowed IMO by having to play with VHIII & MJ Stewart. There’s no substitute for having a quality veteran presence out there to provide FIELD LEADERSHIP, and neither of those two provided that.

    Logan Mankins and now LVD & Suh provide perfect examples of what a difference that can make. Bucs started BOTH Donovan & Ali on the OLine as rookies, and they both did quite well as rookies. Why? They’ve both said in the past that Mankins’ guidance on the field was critical that year.

    And this year I’d contend that Ndamukong Suh has made a huge difference in Vita Vea’s development. Obviously starting last year helped, but this year Via has turned it up several notches it looks like to me. Working in tandem with Suh has to have helped make that happen because Suh is a Pro’s Pro. And look at what LVD meant to Kwon’s development, and now to Devin White. Coaches can only do so much from the sidelines. Having that quality veteran FIELD LEADERSHIP available is huge.

  12. Alanbucsfan Says:

    This secondary has single-handedly dragged down this Bucs team.-

    That is a false statement. Turnovers have been just as much a factor as secondary.

  13. Pickgrin Says:

    Yea DR – I hear ya – but that “quality veteran FIELD LEADERSHIP” costs a lot of money that the Bucs simply don’t have to spend.

    Sure – you could spend $5 or $6M per year on a borderline starter talent at either Safety or CB with some games under his belt that some other team didn’t want. But what good would that do? We already had one of those in Hargreaves and just cut him because his attitude sucked and his play was substandard and he was taking valuable snaps from young players who seemingly already have better upside once they gain some experience.

    I wanted the Bucs to sign Honey Badger this off season for the exact reasons you are stating – I’m sure BA, Bowles and JL wanted him too – but when Mathieu wound up getting $14M per year guaranteed – I understood clearly why that didn’t happen.

    You capitalized the wrong words in that phrase – If you want “QUALITY veteran field leadership” – you have to either develop it yourself through the draft – or pay out the nose in free agency.

    Bucs were in no position to do the later – so with all the draft capital already spent – they have to shoot for the former and “coach em up”…..

  14. Alanbucsfan Says:

    Regarding Hargreaves-
    Some players can handle their recreational drugs(Michael Irvin) and some can’t-( Hargreaves, Martin)

  15. Colonel Angus Says:

    Licht is a terrible GM. The great GM’s understand draft picks are an asset to better a team, whether they are used to draft players or trade for an established player. It was obvious early in the season that the secondary needed veteran help. Had Licht made the move to bring in one of the DB’s that were out there to be had (Fitzpatrick, Ramsey, Peters) after the Rams game at 2-2, who knows where we’d be. And you can always reacquire draft picks later. The Patriots make these moves every season.

  16. 813bucboi Says:

    i guess other players like robert nkimdiche, michael floyd and d.bucannon had “poor effort” under bruce too….lol….

    oh well….it is what it is….lol…

    i guess effort is more important than results(cough cough JW)….

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  17. 813bucboi Says:


    i agree with you that “Turnovers have been just as much a factor as secondary.”

    cant keep giving the opposing team extra possessions….

    but i disagree that VHG had some “drug” problem…lol…

    if you believe he’s the only player on the bucs doing “recreational drugs” than you’re kidding yourself….lol…

    i dont think it was a “drug” problem….i think it was more of a respect and accountability problem…..

    seems like VHG lost respect for BA for calling him out and not others…d.smith has looked horrible at times and never got called out….CD has looked bad at times and never got called out…we all know JW has looked awful but its never his fault….

    BA lost respect for VHG for not stepping up, being a leader and excepting his challenges…..

    i can see both sides….hate to see VHG leave but he wasnt getting it done….we’ll do good in houston….

    GO BUCS!!!!

  18. 74 Bucs fan Says:

    Teacherman – I also went to Plant HS. You should think before you speak as your ignorance is showing. Perhaps if you had gone to Plant you would sound a bit more intelligent.

  19. orlbucfan Says:

    My oldest and very dear friend is a Plant HS graduate. Teacher-idiot doesn’t know what he/she/it is yapping about (nothing new on here). If Bucs could knock off the new-HC-change every 1-2 years, the players would have a chance to learn to jell and play together. If Whitehead is any indication, this young secondary will be awesome. Go Bucs Sunday!!!!

  20. Nole4JabooANDdBucs Says:

    What Pilgrim said…ditto, ditto, ditto

  21. stpetebucsfan Says:

    I agree with the usual suspects. Pickgrin…TBBF…and D.R.