Off-Field Concerns With Hargreaves?
November 16th, 2019
Interesting info surfaces.
Interesting words from the four-letter about why the Bucs’ 2016 first-round pick, cornerback Vernon Hargreaves, was turned loose earlier this week.
Now the public explanation from the Bucs is that Hargreaves wasn’t hustling and Arians finally had enough. To Arians, not busting your tail is an unforgivable sin. As it should be.
Some background: Joe knows for a fact the Bucs were highly interested in Dalvin Cook in the 2017 NFL Draft but instead stayed away from him. This is a sore spot for a lot of Bucs fans.
Unconfirmed Scuttlebutt Joe has heard indirectly coming from One Buc Palace was that the Bucs were spooked by Cook’s entourage. There is also a story bouncing around that Cook was involved in a gun hassle at his apartment in Tallahassee and the Florida State goon squad got that mess to disappear.
Joe has heard more than once that Cook needed to get out of Florida for his own good. Of course, that phrase is charged with all sorts of innuendo.
Well, consider what Jenna Laine of ESPN floated from her sources at One Buc Palace. It seems at least one source told Lane that Hargreaves, who is from Tampa, needed to get out of here in order to take control of his professional career and perhaps his life.
This move by Arians stands in stark contrast to what happened previously under head coach Dirk Koetter, a first-time NFL head coach who took a more “laissez faire” approach to the locker room and deferred personnel decisions to GM Jason Licht. After DeSean Jackson requested a trade and expressed his frustrations over playing with Jameis Winston instead of Ryan Fitzpatrick last year, in addition to drawing extensive fines for being late to meetings and even falling asleep in them, Koetter not only kept him on the roster but made him a team captain.
There are mixed feelings about Hargreaves from inside the Bucs’ building. Those who spoke highly of him praised his knowledge, ability and instincts. Those who spoke less favorably expressed concerns about his lack of focus, commitment and leadership. Some also believed he needed to get out of Tampa.
“… needed to get out of Tampa.” That seems to indicate Hargreaves was hanging with the wrong crowd. Joe had heard this when Hargreaves was coming out of the University of Florida in the draft. But you hear so many things about players, you generally tune out the noise unless the player comments on it.
And who can forget the shady video floating around social media purported to be Hargreaves smoking what some believe was a left-handed cigar.
Maybe that video had more relevance than initially believed at the time?
TAMPA TWO is back with a look at the Saints game and the launching of Vernon Hargreaves. Derrick Brooks and Ira Kaufman deliver.
November 16th, 2019 at 8:14 am
if there was any leadership in the building bucs would be able deal with this issues like this…. bucs have zero leadership from the top and refelcts all the way down hill….
local feel good stories who are over-drafted never work out. not one local feel good story as ever worked out for tampa they all do more harm than good. bucs simply need stop over thinking crap and take the most talented player available for position need each and every round. stop with the nonsense. the character police are wrong far more than they are right….
bucs can’t develop maggots out of feces they prove it year in and year out.
November 16th, 2019 at 8:19 am
Since Hardgraves was released I kept thinking about that video of him and the smoke filling the air…..and what that might say of his character and possible behaviors. Tight end Asj was also very talented but never “made it”. Shows that we have a serious challenge in our selection of players and the vetting process. Could we not hire someone or a even a small committee with this specific talent to help Jason out in this regard?
November 16th, 2019 at 8:19 am
He was local to the area, even played at Wharton HS. I’m sure there were plenty of unscrupulous guys and girls from the local area trying to get into his inner circle to live through his money. Sometimes, getting away from the bums you went to HS with is the best direction for your career and life. Certainly an off field distraction at the minimum for such a young player.
November 16th, 2019 at 8:23 am
He’s was a reach that never came close to his draft position. A lot of these guys dont really love football….the love being “the man”. As Gruden put it….there are PLAYERS….and PLAYAS. Hargreaves is a playa. He loves the celebrity but not the grind. To get benched for lack of hustle…..you’re a 1st rd pick and we cant get consistent hustle, you cant follow basic coaching instructions….dude doesn’t want to be a PROFESSIONAL football player. He simply wants the lifestyle.
November 16th, 2019 at 8:35 am
Lichts signed him a 5th year option. What an idiot BA wasn’t here that long to know the guy was a bust this is all Jason Licht.
November 16th, 2019 at 8:39 am
Desean Jackson was made captain BEFORE Fitz ever played during Winston’s suspension. Laine is wrong. She makes it read as if Jackson was a cancer and Dirks rewarded him with a C on his jersey.
November 16th, 2019 at 8:43 am
No a need to waste time, breath or energy on a player that is NLWTO (no longer with the organization)!!
November 16th, 2019 at 8:43 am
@ Bobby M: solid comment, reminding us of Gru’s Player vs. Playa (FWIW, “playa” is “beach” in Spanish.)
Talent being equal, a player grinds, a playa plays.
Think of how Godwin, a supremely talented guy like Hargreaves, grinds. How Evans grinds. And it shows. One wonders if Hargreaves could have been a “player” with some more grind.
Grind is a new metric I will adopt in future analyses of players. Thanks for reminding me.
I shed no tears with Hargreaves in Houston. None. This could be addition by subtraction.
November 16th, 2019 at 8:45 am
I’m not bothered by the 5th year option…..meant nothing and if he blew up….we were protected….
I’m also not bothered by not trading him….I sincerely doubt he had any value.
I’m only somewhat bothered by the pick itself…..we traded down and still got him.
I agree that a change of teams & scenery can make a difference with a young player….but I doubt very seriously that he will acquire speed with the change.
November 16th, 2019 at 8:45 am
^^^ No longer a need…
November 16th, 2019 at 8:47 am
Hanging with Reidel Anthony and Jaquezz Green ?
🙂
November 16th, 2019 at 8:52 am
For Houston’s sake let’s hope Hargreaves doesn’t end up 1on1 with Hollywood Brown this Sunday against the Ravens…
Vernons patented trail position technique work well against that guy…
November 16th, 2019 at 8:59 am
Not to say that you cant smoke weed and be a productive person or athlete, but the dude was a huge pot head. Multiple 1st hand sources from his college days to today.
November 16th, 2019 at 9:14 am
“Get of of Tampa” means get away from Gboys and their loser organization. It doesn’t mean get away from the wrong crowd
November 16th, 2019 at 9:18 am
such BS…. and lichts lapdawg jenna laine throws it to the sheep; but the bucs draft winston with all his off the field BS? gtfoh; hargreaves was another bad pick…. and looks like oj was too
November 16th, 2019 at 10:01 am
@Duthsty Rhothdes Says
“such BS…. and lichts lapdawg jenna laine throws it to the sheep; but the bucs draft winston with all his off the field BS? gtfoh; hargreaves was another bad pick…. and looks like oj was too”
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great point…. when comes to JW, he can be tolerated, sympathized,given a slack, age….. all possible excuses ….Blame other players for his mediocre QB skills….BUT now with BA, out of the blue we care for the character….ppfff.Pathetic.
By no means Hargreaves did not deserve to go, but performances,if they claim as reason for being release are, then JW should be released too.
BA = LovieS 2.0
November 16th, 2019 at 10:11 am
He’s gone now. I don’t care.
November 16th, 2019 at 10:16 am
There really doesn’t need to be any more reason to cut VH3 other than he isn’t a good football player and didn’t want to tackle.
Jameis Winston, on the other hand, is a good football player (at times).
November 16th, 2019 at 10:16 am
Can’t remember any issues like this surfacing during the Dungy years. But since then the Bucs seem to have had their share of issues with some of our higher round picks (Freeman, Martin, ASJ, VHIII, etc.). Bizarre. Or bad management?
November 16th, 2019 at 10:48 am
Most of our fans are clamouring for the glamour picks for the first round every year. I call this the real “fantasy football” in my mind. (Draft speculation really is a lot of fun after all. :-D)
We could have gotten value with our first pick in 2016. Sheldon Rankins, DT and Laremy Tunsil, OT were the next two picks after Hargreaves.
Licht and the staff he depends upon have fallen down in the due diligence as far as the intangibles and character criteria category as I see it. It is their job to dig deep long before draft day. ASJ (alcohol) and VH3 (?) are just two examples.
November 16th, 2019 at 10:48 am
Koetter had the same attitude at ASU…where some players acted like complete criminals. He’s on the verge of being out of the league unless a team hires him as QB coach.
DeSean’s triumphant return lasted all of 2 games in Philly. An electric player while on the field…more of a distraction when not.
Smart to move on from VH before he somehow declared injury and guaranteed his 9 million dollar payout.
November 16th, 2019 at 10:57 am
Man Joe I really wanted Dalvin Cook in 2017, was so sure he was a lock and when I heard OJ Don’t show up Howard’s name called my heart sunk….
November 16th, 2019 at 11:01 am
“gun hassle” Like the Uber hassle. Like any hassle. Just say it. Some of these guys are thugs. Plain a simple loser thugs. We know Winston is, and he gets a pass. Meanwhile fans suffer because he’s still around, and now the Bucs are putting him out there again where he could hurt our ladies. Not surprised to hear VHIII may have some issues. Like too many in the NFL.
November 16th, 2019 at 11:03 am
Cook missed so many games those first two years that the media and fans would’ve skewered him as a Bust
November 16th, 2019 at 11:12 am
For once I agree with Haynes. Bizarre.
November 16th, 2019 at 11:25 am
Licht sometimes pulls these plugs outta nowhere and lives on to pick em again. Getting a few right must be good enough for the Bucs.
November 16th, 2019 at 11:40 am
Vernon who?
November 16th, 2019 at 11:40 am
Reminder: The Bucs play Huston later into this season. VH3 was picked up by them I believe to get some Intel on us, Huston being a playoff bound team. Once they get their Intel, I believe they’ll throw VH3 to the curb. IMO…..lol
November 16th, 2019 at 12:14 pm
“Hanging with the wrong crowd”
Bobo and Jameis
November 16th, 2019 at 12:14 pm
Wasn’t VH3 from Tampa? Old habits die hard. Maybe he needs to cut ties with his old Tampa crew and get somewhere where he can focus on football only…
November 16th, 2019 at 12:51 pm
He wasn’t very good here and doesn’t really matter why trouble csn follow you anyway for those who dont lead because you allow yourself to be controlled in that way. He will probably start to shape up eventually, I think he thought he was better than he really was
November 16th, 2019 at 1:04 pm
There are plenty of good reasons to let VHGIII go for is on field play.
I don’t care too much what the off field reasons were that may have contributed. It seems that folks here…perhaps due to the pic…think weed is the culprit.
As someone who has enjoyed the “dark side” and experienced it now for close to fifty years I certainly would agree that like anything else weed can lead to bad outcomes. Weed…booze…sex…rock and roll? LMAO
Yeah abuse leads to bad outcomes whichever the vice. I can honestly say I know this in all four of those areas. Not bragging nor complaining or saying mea culpa…it is what it is. Booze has messed up my life least…then comes weed…but women by far and away were my downfall.
Just a note…I’m for running guys who abuse ANY substance or activity that interferes with on field performance. But if we’re going to run all the guys who smoke weed…that will dramatically change or draft and FA plans because we might lose half our team.
Seriously do you guys know how many dudes in the NFL toke?
November 16th, 2019 at 2:07 pm
Plenty of guys toke in the states where it’s legal. Eventually in the 22nd century, Floridumb, the Drug Gateway of the Southeast, will legalize it, too. Dungy never put up with off-field nonsense. He booted any player who embarrassed the team. Tanner Jackson (hope I’ve spelled the name right), a gifted DB for the Bucs was booted off the team. He failed a pot test. He smoked it for pain not for funsies. He never embarrassed the Bucs until this happened. Go Bucs!!
November 16th, 2019 at 2:08 pm
Iamabuc
intel on a basement dweller from a lazy short, slow and stupid cb can’t be very valuable…
November 16th, 2019 at 2:27 pm
Dude smokes weed..so what.
He’s not an NFL caliber player, and a change of scenery won’t make him faster.
My bet is he gets released from Houston shortly, they had nothing to lose having a look-see at Vern.
November 16th, 2019 at 3:06 pm
Jmark- I completely agree but Hargreaves Smokes continuously. I was doing some work at his home about a year ago and was there about 4 hours and watched him roll up thumb size spliffs one right after the other while I was there. The entire living room was full of smoke. He was just hanging out with his girl binge watching breaking bad. If he does that in the morning when a work crew is at his home what’s he do at a party? I have nothing against a player smoking week recreationally, he does it in excess.
November 16th, 2019 at 3:49 pm
All rookie contracts for players drafted in the first round include fifth-year options. Now whether the team uses that option is a different story.
Doesn’t mean they make it to five years. It didn’t cost the Bucs a nickel to kick in the fifth-year option.
November 16th, 2019 at 6:32 pm
Sapp was a draft pick under the cloud because of weed. Some questioned his character before he was drafted. Under the Dungy regime he set that stuff aside for the duration of his career. His personal demons only reappeared as it were after his playing days.
Each individual is different but it does show that the kind of example the head coach sets and the environment that he allows does matter.
November 16th, 2019 at 10:40 pm
Once again it all falls back to our sorry ass GM.
November 16th, 2019 at 11:29 pm
Has anyone heard from T……x the troll jackass? I haven’t seen a post from him in weeks. (Hopefully soon to be months…then years).
Good luck Troll Buddy!
In BA I Trust!
November 17th, 2019 at 3:03 am
No facts, just innuendo. What’s the purpose of this piece? Added no insight nor value to the subject. Vetting stories is to journalism what vetting players is to the NFL.