Changes To CBs Coming?

October 9th, 2019

More playing time?

Joe wrote yesterday that it’s beginning to look like the Bucs’ pass defense will be even more nightmarish than it was the past two seasons.

Joe honestly never dreamed he would live to see that, much less having to watch this eyerake in the very first season without disgraced former Bucs coordinator Mike Smith.

On Sunday, Arians referred to his defensive backs as soft. On Monday in his day-after presser, Arians didn’t hesitate to say that the team needs better play from cornerback Vernon Hargreaves.

Anyone with a piece of a brain knows the Bucs simply cannot keep doing what they are doing giving up over 300 yards of passing each week and expect to make a wild card run.

Rookie cornerback Jamel Dean’s name came up Monday and Arians was asked what kind of help he can provide when he returns. Dean hasn’t played since Week 2.

“A big, physical guy,” Arians said. “Hopefully, we get him back – special teams and another physical corner. We’ve been missing him.”

Bucs special teams have been a little sad. Kickoff returns are going the way of the dodo bird, and they’re ranked 29th in punt return average (3.3 yards).

Joe understands Hargreaves is not exactly a physical corner. Carlton Davis, who Arians on Sunday twice referred to as the team’s best corner, is physical.

Is there a chance Arians might get Dean more snaps to possibly grease the wheels for a promotion if Hargreaves doesn’t start playing better?

61 Responses to “Changes To CBs Coming?”

  1. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Ryan Smith should get many snaps

  2. 813bucboi Says:

    I doubt it but we’ll see…..

    GO BUCS!!!

  3. diggler Says:

    Move Whitehead to nickle for the time being blitz him from the edge. No joke.

  4. 813bucboi Says:


    i like that idea….or ryan smith

    GO BUCS!!!!

  5. AlteredEgo Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    OK…lets keep treating the symptoms….and not the root cause….Jason Licht

  6. tmaxcon Says:

    Vh3bust can’t play any better… the little fella has proven that… unless bucs have a convenience store in the locker room for the little guy to manage not sure why he’s on roster wasting a valuable spot… the little guy needs to put the playbook down and focus what’s really important to his future understanding the juul flavors and cigarette brands for his future career at your neighborhood gas station

  7. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Stop experimenting with these puppies.
    Move Vernon Hargreaves & Cameron Brate (and a draft pick or two).
    An go shopping for corner opposite Carlton Davis.
    And a pass rusher opposite Shaq Barrett.

    Trade or Release
    • TE Cameron Brate (Age:28) $7,000,000
    • WR Breshad Perriman (Age:25) $4,000,000
    • CB Vernon Hargreaves (Age:24) $4,511,076
    • DT Beau Allen (Age:27) $4,000,000

  8. 813bucboi Says:

    buncanon released….

    either devin white is 100% or he asked to be released since he wasnt being used….

    thought we couldve used him as a blitzing LB….

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  9. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Hell, call the Bengals and see what they want for CB William Jackson III

  10. tmaxcon Says:


    Great plan but you know bucfan they get clingy and never want any 3if the mediocre career losers to depart. Its too emotional for bucfan to let failures go….

  11. zzbuc Says:

    We don´t need to move Cameron Brate, we need to target him more!!!!! Same as OJ ….We keep on asking where is OJ???? Well, if you do not target him he will be just another Luck Stocker!!!!! Same as the so called analysts complainning Mike Evans was missing the other day!!! come on guys he was target only three times, and he is constanly with two players on him…..that is why Chris Godwin is having a sensational year!!!!!
    Regarding CB, YES no doubt we have a BIG TIME PROBLEM!!!! is this new? No, for Chirst sake no!!!!This is even before Smitty was DC….and we keep on drafting CB!!!!!
    Guys when are we all togehther realize where the real problem is?

  12. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    So that they could still be eligible for a 3rd round compensatory pick.
    Either Perriman or Bucannon would have to be released.

    I wouldn’t be shocked to see him back on the roster.

    Crazy they haven’t kicked the tires on D.J. Swearinger though.

  13. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Neither In:

    Did Bruce Arians run a two tight-end offense.
    So what makes you think he would run one here?

    Hell he’s doing what he always has.
    He’s using Chris Godwin the same damn way he’s used Hines Ward.
    Flanker on some plays – on others he’s motioned tight to the right side or left side of the line. Essentially making him a second or third tight end.

    So why do you need Cameron Brate?
    Honestly take your emotions out of it for a minute.
    Why would you need him?

    Note: Heath Miller was drafted under:
    –Offensive Coordinator: Ken Whisenhunt
    –Tight Ends Coach: James Daniel

  14. 813bucboi Says:




    GO BUCS!!!!!

  15. D-Rome Says:

    More evidence the entire 2016 draft was a giant swing and a miss.

  16. Dusthty Rhothdes Says:

    Changes will come when there is a new GM that knows how to build a team from the inside out. Lok at how indy from the bottom to a contender just like the bills, the flippin bills who will be probably 11-5 this year with just a defense and run game…defense wins championships…tampa the home of CBs & TEs

  17. Pryda...Sec147 Says:

    Dean is goin to be a stud!

  18. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Sh!t I’ll the 0-5 Bengals up for:

    CB -William Jackson III
    G/C- Billy Price

    An Click repeat with the Dolphins for:
    DT – Davon Godchaux
    DE/OLB – Charles Harris

  19. LUVMYBUCS Says:



  20. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    Real talk

  21. 813bucboi Says:

    October 9th, 2019 at 9:39 am
    Sh!t I’ll the 0-5 Bengals up for:

    CB -William Jackson III
    G/C- Billy Price

    An Click repeat with the Dolphins for:
    DT – Davon Godchaux
    DE/OLB – Charles Harris

    i’ll take that but those 2 team probably want picks….what we giving up?

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  22. 813bucboi Says:


    dont forget the 9ers….

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  23. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Potential Acquisitions
    • CB – William Jackson III – $1,773,497
    • G/C – Billy Price – $1,012,386
    • DE/OLB – Charles Harris – $1,450,794
    • DT/NT – Davon Godchaux – $645,000
    Total: $4,881,677

  24. Son of Kobe Faker Says:


    Sheep! Stop just Stop

    It will hurt more

    Sunday night, Gump will be receiving phone calls from playoff teams that want Godwin and OJ Howard

    More 2nd round picks for Gump to draft corners

    2024 is when Gump will be replaced

    My Dads hands are clean”

    Son of Kobe Faker

  25. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    • TE Cameron Brate (Age:28) $7,000,000
    • CB Vernon Hargreaves (Age:24) $4,511,076
    • DT Beau Allen (Age:27) $4,000,000 <–Philly?

    You got action at a combination of picks from the:
    — 2nd-7th round in the 2020 & 2021 draft.

    Get'er done.

  26. Lamarcus Says:

    Yea some y’all need to stop crossing Madden video games with reality.

    Potential acquisition my a$$. I don’t want any sorry Bengals player anyway. It’s like trading rice for rice.

  27. Dusthty Rhothdes Says:

    813 right on with the niners!!!!

    I know the NFL & college are differentish…but the DC of the Gators Todd Grantham, brings the house from all over the field from run blitzes to pass down blitzes and they are coming from all over…like someone said above regarding whitehead he is a missile bring him from all over up the gut off the edge whatever. There is a video of some NFL safety coming from 15-20 yards deep right up the A gap full speed timed perfectly blitz…the bucs are just frustrating

  28. LUVMYBUCS Says:


    I’ve been on site doing this for years my young brotha.
    Most of the kats I talk about around this time year; as potential acquisitions.
    Do get moved – just not to the Bucs.

  29. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Funny how New England has been feasting on players from bad teams for years.
    But the Bucs can’t?

  30. SCBucsFan Says:

    TPax we Buc fans are OK letting failures go. Just watch, leave and no one will miss you.

  31. Smashsquatch Says:

    Stick a fork in VHIII, he’s either hurt, getting toasted, or simply toasted. He plays scared, always gives a huge cushion and still can’t keep up with his man. I’ve seen enough, if JL throws money at him in the off season the squatch will crash his next pool party.

  32. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    CB William Jackson lll vs. Mike Thomas (2018)

  33. Siege the Bay Says:

    Jamel Dean has the size and speed to match up to the top wide receivers

  34. Reach87 Says:

    Lamarcus…Preach. This is not Madden. We may be able to get 1 player here, but not a lot. What I think we need to do coach them up better and make better adjustments in game. Situational football: DBs: Too many slants when it mattered. Protection: Be quicker with the call so you can better set the RB piece of the protections (edge block the RB or swing him out ASAP) and work hot routes. Coaches say it was about getting the Defense off the field on third down and converting on 3rd downs when we have the ball. Agree. We were 50% against the Rams (+ Offense/-Defense) and won. Besides one drive we were 0% against the Saints. I think we’ll do better against the Saints but the concern is (in my mind) more on the Defensive side. We have the tendency to allow these QBs the easy 2nd down slant/curl that make 3rd down even easier. We CAN win in London. We SHOULD. Go Bucs!

  35. Reach87 Says:

    Correction: I meant to say “…better against the Panthers in London…

  36. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Would be considered minor moves
    • DE/OLB – Charles Harris – $1,450,794
    • DT/NT – Davon Godchaux – $645,000
    • G/C – Billy Price – $1,012,386

    Probably won’t even show up the tracker on most news feeds.

    The only major move here would be a trade for CB William Jackson III

  37. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Would be considered minor moves
    • DE/OLB – Charles Harris – $1,450,794
    • DT/NT – Davon Godchaux – $645,000
    • G/C – Billy Price – $1,012,386

    Probably won’t even show up *in the tracker for most news feeds.

  38. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Patriots lose an offense line or need a piece or two; they make moves.

    Case In Point:

    New England Patriots (Churning that Roster)
    • 09/11 – Traded WR Demaryius Thomas to New York Jets.
    • 09/01 – Traded DB Keion Crossen to Houston.
    • 08/31 – *Acquired C Russell Bodine in a trade with the Buffalo Bills
    • 08/31 – Traded DB Duke Dawson Jr. to the Denver Broncos
    • 08/29 – *Acquired OL Korey Cunningham from the Arizona Cardinals
    • 08/29 – *Acquired OL Jermaine Eluemunor from the Baltimore Ravens.

    3 Trades & 3 Acquisitions in two weeks.

  39. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    6 trades in 2wks hmmmm.

  40. JimmyJack Says:

    LUV you forgot to find us a new Tackle. Much bigger need then guard I say.

    I expecect a lot more from Watford since the staff knows well. If he don’t give us solid snaps that’s an endictment of the coaching staff. Or maybe Earl can at tackle? Not sure about that.

  41. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    JJ the whole league is looking for one
    Hotter commodity than graphene right now. lol

  42. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    I mean you could make a move for Andre Smith, but Josh Wells could be better.

    Could take a gamble on Ryan Schraeder.

  43. JimmyJack Says:

    Haha OK LUV. Fair enough. I see you are on top of you game.

    But hey I heard Benechot is still a FA and he is a tackle. I’d almost love to see that happen just for the reactions. Would be entertaining.

  44. unbelievable Says:

    LUV dropping all sorts of knowledge and info, per usual.

  45. Defense Rules Says:

    I see a lot of ‘instant answers’ in terms of upgrading our roster before the trade deadline but there’s one fly in the ointment … and his name is Jason Licht. We all KNOW what a good horse trader JL is. The time when he needed to be ‘doing his thing’ was roughly 6 months ago. We all KNEW that our Secondary was young & inexperienced. We all KNEW that we needed to generate a better pass rush. We all KNEW our starting OLine was circumspect & lacked depth. We all KNEW that somehow we needed to upgrade our running game. Our solution? Do nothing then. So now everyone wants to do SOMETHING?

    How’s about INSTEAD we stay the course and build this team the right way. Figure out who’s got a future with the Bucs and get them GAME experience. Practice & preseason is wonderful, and obviously crucial to a team’s ultimate success, but there’s no substitute for REAL GAME-TIME EXPERIENCE. When the bullets start flying hot & heavy, THEN and only then do you see what folks are really made of.

    Bucs have enough TALENT on this team right now to build a successful defense. It’ll take another draft or two to fill in the holes, but the core is there. Pretty much the same with the offense IMO, except that it’s got even more holes to fill IMO. But still, the core is there. Stay the course and build this team the right way.

  46. JimmyJack Says:

    DR I fail to see how the solution was to do nothing.

    Each one of them questioned areas you mentioned were addressed except probably RB(which with RoJos season looks like a good call).

    Maybe they were not addressed the way you wanted them to be addressed but of the four areas you mentioned let’s refect.

    -Secondary….Used aot of draft capitol and getting bad results.

    -Passrush…..Used free agent dollars and are getting much better results.

    -RB-Made no changes and getting better results.

    -OL…..Only made minor changes to depth and debatebly getting better results. Used debatebly as a disclaimer but looking at our running lanes it’s pretty obvisously a improved unit. Had our moments of poor pass protection but that’s nothing new. My biggest key here is developing Cappa. Huge piece for the future going forward. We get a big test for our depth this week and I get a great chuckle at those who say it’s an issue when they never saw it play before.

    All in all I see guys like RoJo and Cappa being developed and agree with your main point that we got a team that we can build on. A big factor moving forward is seeing one of these many CBs start to show signs of future promise. Got 11 games of work left to figure that out.. Or we can take the easy way out and trade for a veteran which really ain’t a awful plan.

  47. AlabamaBucsFan Says:

    Jamel Dean, Sean Murphy-Bunting and Carlton Davis will be the future Bucs CBs. I doubt VHIII and MJ Stewart last much longer.

    Jamel Dean = Speedy, Physical and tall
    Sean Murphy-Bunting = Speedy and tall but lacking physically
    Carlton Davis = Speedy and Physical but only average speed

    M J Stewart = Physical but on the short side and only has average speed
    VHIII = Average physically, on the short side and only has average speed

  48. Jmarkbuc Says:


    What is speedy, with only avg speed?

  49. Defense Rules Says:

    JimmyJack … Again, I don’t necessarily disagree that we ‘took some action’ but it was minimal & insufficient. Lots of JBFers were screaming for OLine upgrades at RG & RT especially (which would’ve helped our depth?). And lots were yelling for bringing a veteran corner on-board prior to training camp. Yes we drafted several Secondary players, but they’re rookies & are making rookie mistakes. Would’ve been helpful to have a veteran FIELD GENERAL back there to guide them (like Mankins ‘guided’ our young OLine when he was here?).

    Trading for a quality veteran corner now will cost an arm & a leg, and we don’t have the ‘capital’ at this point to do that. I’m hoping that JPP makes it back to help with the pass rush, but still not sure how much we can expect out of him this year (and he’s no longer under contract with us next year). The ‘good news’ IMO is that these first 5 games have been against tough teams, and we’re now 2-3. Would dearly love to see us beat the Panthers in London on Sunday so we can hit the Bye week at 3-3. The remaining 10 games after that aren’t QUITE as daunting, and our youngsters are gaining experience. Still trying to stay positive …

  50. Denjoe Says:

    Lichts effing brain is soft! He can’t draft worth a crap trade for a sure thing.

  51. firethecannons Says:

    Heh Jason Licht stop wasting our draft picks on corners Buy the corners use the draft picks if necessary you are not capable of picking corners and neither is anyone else associated with Bucs.

  52. Isaac haggins Says:

    Cornerback is def # 2 on the list behind o line …….. please package Brate, Hardgraves and a late pick for a right tackle that can also play some guard !!!

  53. JimmyJack Says:

    Yeah but DR I don’t recall one JBFer saying that RG was not a need because we had Cappa. Not one.

    So after it’s all played out the theory of needing to draft a RG was totally bogus.

    So ya gotta take all these fan wishlist items with a grain of salt. I mean yeah Joe blow fan can say I told you so cause he wanted a veteran CB and we drafted one who isn’t contributing but 2nd rounders contribute all the time in this league……and Free Agents flop all the time(hello Brent Grimes).

    From a personal standpoint the executation has to be right. So blame Licht for getting the wrong players.

    Any ol fan can look back and say what we should of done 8 months ago. But then they will conviently forget to tell you that they would have given up on Cappa and RoJo in the process & buried them on the depth charts.

    But in the end maybe you are not just being positive waiting for the season to unfold and hoping for 3-3 at our buy……Maybe you are one of the rare few fans who actually has some patients.

  54. Defense Rules Says:

    JimmyJack … Interesting perspective on NOT adding RG & CB back in FA, but the NEEDS were clearly there, regardless of how Cappa & RoJo performed. Our OLine is thin, thin, thin right now … we’ve lacked DEPTH for years.

    Let’s say that we’d added a quality RG (hopefully someone with versatility to play other positions as well). The COMPETITION that he would’ve provided (assuming that he won a starting position) might’ve meant that Cappa would end up being the depth, OR that Dotson would end up being the depth & Cappa would start at RT. Result? We’d be a lot better off TODAY than we are. The NEED was there.

    Same with outside CB. Let’s say that we did add a quality veteran CB to start outside opposite Davis. We’d have an experienced LEADER in the Secondary & probably wouldn’t be making as many ‘rookie mistakes’ as we are right now. TB would have a LOT more flexibility to go with 3, 4 or even 5 DBs in certain packages, and that MIGHT make a difference in terms of results on the field.

  55. Nick2 Says:

    Yes! Please promote this guy over Vernon “I get plaing time but rarely delivery Heargraves”. I mean ok VH3 did win us the Carolina game on that last play but he pretty much handed last week to the Saints with his terrible coverage.

  56. Nick2 Says:

    JMarkBuc- that means he’s slow which he is

  57. BigHog Says:

    T MAX/are there any are there any people on this team that’s not of color that you don’t like… have my permission to drag their ass like you do the rest of the players!!!

  58. JimmyJack Says:

    DR You kinda just made my point when you say our OL is thin, thin thin. I will assume your talking about depth? If I’m right then you are prejudging players you never saw play for the Bucs before in a real game……That’s the same thing fans did with Cappa. They never saw him play in Arians offense and yet them deemed him to be a bad player and said we needed a new starting RG. That was prooved wrong.

    Now maybe your right & we’ll find out Sunday with backups in. Just aren’t fair to say our depth stinks when we never saw it

  59. Rod Munch Says:

    Hey the defense played fantastic in weeks 1 & 2, and they won us game 2, but come on, who didn’t know it was going to fall apart? You drafted all those young guys for a reason and anyone with an IQ over 9 knew that there was going to be huge growing pains. So play the young guys if they’re even remotely close to being ready and reduce the playing time of guys who aren’t going to be here.

    Also blitz on 95% of the plays. I didn’t have a chance to watch every play on Sunday, but every single defensive play I saw the Bucs just sat in a soft zone and put no pressure on Teddy, and he just tore them up. I haven’t a clue what Bowles was doing – or if I just managed somehow to only see plays with no pressure – but so far this year, just like last year, if you sit in a soft zone guys run wide open as there’s no pressure.

  60. Defense Rules Says:

    JimmyJack … My comment that “Our OLine is thin, thin, thin right now … we’ve lacked DEPTH for years” refers to the depth that we have RIGHT NOW.

    We have NINE OLinemen RIGHT NOW … Donovan Smith, Marpet, Jensen, Watford, Wells, Bailey, Hawkins, Cappa & Dotson. The last 2 won’t be active for AT LEAST a couple of weeks it sounds like (probably longer). The first 3 are starters, and 2 of the next 4 will be starters Sunday. That leaves TWO OLinemen as DEPTH.

    Now, off the top of your head (no peeking), which positions are those middle 4 qualified to play? Tackle? Guard? Center? What’s their experience & training?

    My point since March has been that we need to strengthen our OLine because (1) we only had 3 bonafide starters (Smith, Marpet & Jensen) and (2) we had only 2 experienced OLinemen behind them (Dotson & Watford). Yes, Cappa has played decently IMO, but I’ve seen him get beat a number of times in our 5 games. And Dotson is clearly on his last leg. So if I ‘made your point’ that our “OLine is thin, thin thin” then good … we’ve been in agreement apparently since Spring.

  61. Bucs96 Says:

    I think like you said before Joe, we seen enough of VH3 to know what we have there…I say let Dean play, s**t let him start & let’s see what we can do, he can still be molded & he has things you can’t coach (height, weight, speed)