Too Much Time

August 25th, 2019

One of Bucco Bruce Arians’ favorite quarterbacks of all-time, Tim Couch, the guy Arians coached in Cleveland, was talking Friday night.

Speaking on the Browns’ preseason broadcast of their game in Tampa against the Bucs, Couch dropped an interesting stat: Browns QB Baker Mayfield only took one sack in the final seven games of last season. One! Per Couch, that largely was because of Mayfield’s ability to deliver the football in 2.5 seconds or less from the time of the snap.

This intrigued Joe for a few reasons. First, one sack in seven games is ridiculous. Second, Mayfield was playing in Freddie Kitchens’ offense, which is a lot like Bruce Arians’. Third, a key element of Arians’ offense is delivering the ball quickly, which Jameis does not.

NFL Technology objectively tracks “Time To Throw” (snap to release) and Jameis Winston, America’s Quarterback, has been near the bottom of the NFL the past three years, meaning he takes more time to throw than most:

2.88 seconds average (2016)
2.77 (2017)
2.80 (2018)

Under Arians in Arizona, Carson Palmer was among the best in the NFL at 2.49 seconds back in 2016. Who led the NFL in “Time To Throw” in 2017? Current Bucs backup Blaine Gabbert making five starts in Arians’ offense in Arizona, and Arians says Gabbert is a perfect fit for his offense.

On Friday, Jameis said he was the cause of two sacks against Cleveland, essentially because he held the ball too long. Arians’ Saturday comments jibed with that take.

“Two of the sacks, maybe three, were Jameis just staying downfield too long and not coming under to his underneath men,” Arians said via “He would have had first downs twice by just taking the underneath stuff. He hung on to a touchdown pass a little too long, especially on the third-and-5 down in the red zone.”

With opening day in exactly two weeks, Jameis’ decision-making needs to speed up in a hurry.

111 Responses to “Too Much Time”

  1. Pittsshore Says:

    Cmon Joe. That’s because it take dumb people longer to process information.

  2. MadMax Says:

    This is him and how he plays. He usually likes to lock in on one person and wait. Im used to it by now. Yes it would be nice if he could make faster reads but it is what it is. If we want that, we’ll have to make a change at QB.

  3. AlteredEgo Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    Jameis peaked his first year in college…Folks he will not change !
    He is what he is…
    What you see is what you get
    Pay your money and take your chances
    You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear
    Turn out the light the party ids over
    Ndog won’t be back until next week
    all the others
    Move On dot Bucs

  4. Buccaneerscotty Says:

    It’s hard to get rid of the ball fast when you don’t understand what your looking at… he has been playing football most of his life and still doesn’t understand. Don’t know what two weeks will do.

  5. AlteredEgo Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    Maybe he’d be better in slow pitch softball…..

  6. Magadude Says:

    We already know Winston too often makes bad decisions. It’s also nothing new his throwing process is takes longer than most. Add that he’s known to blow off the play sent in, and that’s our QB. Woohoo!!! Bucs fans are accustomed to waiting, watching, and wincing as they throw their admission money down the drain.

    That’s just Winston moving that there needle.

  7. Defense Rules Says:

    It’s by-passing the underneath guys when they’re running wide open THEN either throwing it away or throwing a deeper incompletion that admittedly drives me nuts. Jameis still doesn’t seem to see the whole field, but rather stays locked on to one receiver or one sector.

    What if BA, Byron, Clyde & Tom really can’t FIX Jameis? We’d end up with yet another disheartening year, but I guess hopefully get yet another high draft pick to spend on another franchise QB. Whoopee. Good reason to return to our heritage as a strong defensive team with a decent offense. Putting all our eggs into the offensive basket doesn’t seem to be the way to go in Tampa Bay.

  8. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Jameis always looks to make the big play first….and that takes time….he needs to look at the sure/open play first.

  9. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    He gets locked into that homerun ball (that he sucka at) that he ignores better options to keep a drive going

  10. Magadude Says:

    @DR….he seems lost without Evans and Hump. In his first game action where he had to go through progressions and actually make decisions, not good. Yes yes yes, the O line was awful on too many plays.

    BA, Byron, Clyde, and Tom don’t seem to even agree on what is “wrong” with Winston. Some say he’s just fine.

    Verily, the Bucs have never signed their “franchise QB” to a second contract. Winston hasn’t earned it so far, and the clock is ticking. But we see problems with such picks with other teams too. Very discouraged by what I saw Friday night with the O line and Winston. But we can “hope” that was the downside of his inconsistency (another major problem with him) and that hits a high for a while now.

  11. Kobe Faker Says:

    “How long does it take to dump a screen pass to a runningback?

    Less 1 second?

    JW3 passed to the runningback the least amount last year

    Wouldnt JW3 time be lowered with 70 receptions less than 1 second to his overall average?

    Lazy journalism will cause the collapse of society”

    Kobe Faker

  12. NPRSageBoy Says:

    Maybe JayMiss isn’t capable of the quick read and reaction required in this offense. He certainly can’t hit the long ball.

  13. Magadude Says:

    I don’t think his issue with a slower release is about speed of decisions as much as it is physical/mechanical process. If they try to change the latter it can make him further inaccurate, resulting in a worse throw than normal…and we know that could translate to even more INTs. So setting him up for worse accuracy and poor quality of decisions too often as is…could be a mess. I don’t think they should try to change his throwing mechanics (if that would even be on the table at all). So then, do they rebuild the playcalling around Winston’s slow-throwing, bad decisions, INT prone play? Well, I thought that’s what BA/BL was supposed to be doing…building and calling the O around Winston’s “capabilities.” Sheesh.

  14. Duthsty Rhothdes Says:

    He is just a mid level qb, send him to indy for their next 2 #1s & 2s and brissett at the end of the day this is at best a 7-9 constructed team, commit to a complete rebuild

  15. Sport Says:

    It seems like they called plays to expose Jamies to drive home the point of this article. The Oline gets crushed when Jamies reverts to his old habits laid out by this article and each of you fellow posters.

    Jamies is Jamies’ worst enemy. If he can’t overcome his decision making, he will be replaced. Griffin might just be a good fit for this offense.

    Heck just about every starting QB in the league would love to play for Arians and with these weapons.

    Its Do or Die for JW. There are no more excuses.

    In BA I Trust!

  16. Ben real Says:

    Im not one to insult a mans intelligence unless they are stupid … which is why I often do to some of the people in here because well they can be … now jameis is a pretty smart dude … he knows his (poop) but the dude just tries to be a highlight reel every single play… im tired of him saying I’m gonna get better this and that woomp woomp … jameis your not you gonna be and always be the fall guy because the ball is in your hands on every freaking snap … if it’s not the line it’s you … and until he’s replaced with a QB who is not hard headed then this is going to be a 5-11 team while he’s under center plain and simple he been doing this for 4 years now and doing it going into year 5 … nothing will change because it’s who he is … stripes won’t change on a tiger spots won’t change on a leopard period … gonna get my coffee now

  17. Bculaw Says:

    This is not decision making. It’s about changing the mentality.

    JW has always played for aggressive coaches in a down field offense. He wants to push it down field. He also has the ability to extend plays when coverage breaks down. And, he’s never seen a play that he wants to give up on. Add them there together and he’s never been willing to take the easy 5 yards if a 45 yard TD is available if he extends the play another second or two.

    Koetter never wanted to reign in the “gunslinger,” and it will be interesting to see what BA does about this issue. I’ve always wanted to see if JW could just play point guard and distribute the ball. You may get a couple of “alley oops” a game, but the main focus is just getting the ball in the hands of the guys in a position to make plays. He had more of this mentality in his second year when his receiving Corp was decimated and he was throwing mostly to guys that are now out of the league. He didn’t have that homerun hitter, but he was finding a lot of different receivers and moving the chains with consistency.

  18. Magadude Says:

    @Duthsty…man, that would be the deal of the century. No way in he11 would they go for it. But yeah, given I see 4, maybe 6 wins max on the way fo the Bucs this year…that would be the Lotto. The QB of the future is not on the Bucs roster.

  19. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Kobe ,
    Due to the deception needed for some screens and blocking to be set up. My guess is that it would take more than a second to set up the majority of screens.

  20. Rayjay1122 Says:

    Would be interested to know what RG4’s time to throw average has been this preseason.

  21. Magadude Says:

    On screens and passes to RBs…don’t forget RBs are often for checkdowns (which Winston may be avoiding too much) and screens are also often to WRs. Much of that blocking development happens as the throw is made. So to better qualfiy Kobe’s point…which could be correct…is to see how many actual screens and checkdowns were thrown. Those may both be low. We do know Winston often throws into some tight (sometimes too tight for comfort?) Windows…probably before throwing to his checkdown or other underneath guys.

  22. Duthsty Rhothdes Says:

    Maga right! i mean whats the big picture for the future? Build a team as in the OL & Defense dont throw 30 mil at jameis and keep the bucs at 7-9 for 5 more years

  23. Brian Says:

    Do or die and sadly I expect the latter. I have zero confidence this guy can be the franchise he was hoped to be. Another five wasted years

  24. Dapostman Says:

    Best time to learn when to get rid of the ball sooner is during preseason games. Especially if your OL can’t hold up for long developing plays. I said before you will see more short to intermediate routes with taking a few shots downfield. Winston has had what 8 series or so this preseason? Let’s see where the Bucs are after the first 3 games to see if he has made the adjustment.

  25. Hodad Says:

    I’d be OK with Jameis looking for the deep pass if he could it consistently, but he can’t. Even Barber said he’s better throwing 15 yard passes, so why does he wait for the big throw he has the most trouble completing? If this can’t be coached out of him with this staff, we need to move on. All QB’s coming out of college now are trained for the short, quick passing game, Jameis was not taught that way. Better learn quick.

  26. Magadude Says:

    Dusthsty for GM…IMMEDIATELY!
    THIS group of Glazers hung too much hope on Winston. They’ve got to be having buyers remorse.

    The national narrative going into the season has already started–sadly. “Bucs are stuck with Winston” (ESPN) and that there has to be “concerns” with Winston’s “struggle.” When he had time to throw, it was “ugly” as he either couldn’t find an open receiver or missed open receivers” and he “had Perriman open but threw the ball out of bounds.” 9-19, 78 yards, 34 plays. << All from Mike Florio. It's just started, and now we listen to this for two weeks. Makes fans want to run out and buy tickets.

    That’s just Winston moving that there needle.

  27. DooshLaRue Says:

    ……all that football intelligence.
    Such a waste.

    Ha ha ha

  28. Defense Rules Says:

    Magadude … Little doubt in my mind that Jameis relies heavily on ME13 (and did so last year on Humphries & Brate also). Friday night he had none of those, PLUS was under intense pressure on almost every play. Result: His performance wasn’t impressive. But not unanticipated.

    Against top defenses that do well pressuring the QB, Jameis has never fared well (neither has our OLine for that matter). Bucs only beat TWO teams last year whose defenses ranked in the Top-16 of the NFL: Saints & Eagles. Fitz was the QB in BOTH games, plus we caught both teams before their defenses had ‘gelled’. In 2017 we beat TWO teams that had defenses ranked in the Top-16: Chicago & Saints. Jameis was the QB in BOTH of those games. We caught the Bears with their pants down in Game 1 (we won 29-7) & the Saints with theirs down in Game 16 (they’d already won the division). Those are the only FOUR games we’ve won in the past 2 years against Top-16 defenses. That’s sad … you’ve gotta beat the good teams to be a playoff team.

    And Bculaw, I think it IS about decision-making. It’s about staying under control when everything around you is out-of-control. It’s about progressions and not keying on 1 receiver or 1 sector. In flying we used to call it getting ‘tunnel vision’. To a pilot, that’s deadly; to a QB, it’s a ticket out of the NFL. They’ve got to be able to see the whole field. Until Friday’s game, I really thought this ‘QB Whisperer’ conglomerate had been getting through to Jameis. But Friday, once the dogs were unleashed, Jameis looked like his old self. And the results weren’t pretty in this offense.

  29. jjbucfan Says:

    Dirks offense didn’t run screens or dump offs to RBs. This is well known to anyone who watched the games. He kept the running backs in to block because our O-line sucked and everyone but Jason Licht knew it. Also, when your coach makes you take a 7 step drop like Dirk did and you have no o-line, by the time you hit the top of your drop, you are running for your life. Should have gone O-line the last 2 years. Will Hernandez would have fixed RG in the second round, RT could have been picked anywhere else or maybe Cappa is a good pick if you play him where he played his whole career.

  30. Ptwalk Says:

    The way the o line played, no one would have looked good.

  31. Jmarkbuc Says:

    JW can’t read defenses, not at an elite level..that’s why so many forced throws. On the bright side, he’s not accurate either. Not sure he knows the meaning of “throw a receiver open. Without ME making ridiculous catches JW’s stats wouldn’t be what they are. He hasn’t done Brate any favors either.

  32. MadMax Says:

    Ok, if you wanna talk a trade…..JW to Indy for Nelson, Brissett and next years 1st or 2nd. Get on the phone Mr Licht….opps like this dont arise often.

    We’re rebuilding anyway so its a shat season, maybe 6 wins. Griffin and Brissett will get us through and we use the next 1st on our future QB….plus save some high dollar money.

  33. Morgus the Magnificent Says:

    After all these years, and a very established track record, some of you expect Winston to change. Look up the definition of “insanity”.

  34. AlteredEgo Say: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    Just to make it clear… my criticism of Jameis is not personal.. that is the name of the Bucs starting QB…I’d love to see him succeed but have not seen ANY improvement. It is a passing league now and the Bucs have excellent receiving targets I don’t know what else to say about what I see

  35. ChipBuc Says:

    All you experts on this site (you know who you are) missed the big picture last game against cleveland. If you noticed the other QB had a worst game than Winston, 10 for 26 1 interception, Mayfield’s starting position for many of his drives started in bucs territory. He looked terrible. But the reason I think both sucked is that all the blitzing both teams did with out game plans to counter it. That was a big reason for both playing badly. We get it Winston sucks, but that’s your opinions, nothing else. Doesn’t make it true, doesn’t make it false. I kinda feel that this site has a really negative vibe in all things Bucs lately. It’s preseason chill, if Winston is still playing like last game into the real season with game plans, then maybe it’s time to move on.

  36. BucEmUp Says:

    He needs to make check down passes his bread and butter like many of the leagues best offenses. Dirk didnt believe in those plays, neither did lovie. I fdo sense a disconnect between Jameis and leftwhich though. If this offemse regresses it has nothing to do with Jameis, it.will be the coaching. Arians of the best in the business, Byron is not….

  37. PriMech54 Says:

    News flash for all of you neurotic, panic ridden cult leaders

    Baker Mayfield looked like garbage too. Went 10/26. Yikes.

    I have a genius idea:

    They should probably trade him for Jacoby Brissett!!!!


    It’s week three of the PRESEASON. Enough said.

  38. tickrdr Says:

    Multiple posters seem to have the same impression that I have had that Jameis may be quite good on the whiteboard, but when the ball snaps during live action, he frequently LOCKS ON to his primary target (his head never moves), and never sees the other open receivers, let alone an occasional underneath defender who can jump the route. As I posted yesterday, the best option may be a “max protect” offense with a single primary target and a check down receiver, which limits his choices to a much simpler…..two.


  39. DalvinCookRules Says:

    The definition of insanity is NOT “doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result”–that was merely a quip by Albert Einstein to show his disdain for STUBBORNNESS (by trying to equate it to “insanity”)

    The word “insanity” might be better attributed to Bucs fans who think Jameis is the reason this team continues to suck.

    Is Jameis limited by how quickly he can process the field and also get the ball out (accurately)? Sure, he is not elite in this area, but he does many other things better than most NFL QBs. He is still better than say, Brad Johnson, who this franchise won a Superbowl with, but Johnson had an OL, a running game, a kicking game, and a DEFENSE around him.

  40. Go Bucs 72 Says:

    This isn’t Madden or the NBA you clowns. None of the imbecilic trades mentioned are even remotely possible in the NFL. I’ll take BA’s assessment of Jameis any day over all the butt hurt Gator fans that are making idiots of themselves no here daily.

  41. Buc1987 Says:

    Jameis Winston is the QB for the 2019 season.

    Repeat after me.

    Jameis Winston is the QB for the 2019 season.

    Get over it. They don’t have another QB for 2019.

    Yet the same posters will come on here again tomorrow and repeat the SOS. Can’t blame them though as no site beats a dead horse better than JBF. Joe throws out the meat and within seconds….

    Watch as he does it again tomorrow.

  42. Buc1987 Says:

    Go Bucs 72 …gets it!

  43. Anonymous Says:

    “Is Jameis limited by how quickly he can process the field and also get the ball out (accurately)? Sure, he is not elite in this area, but he does many other things better than most NFL QBs.”

    Seriously? Like what? Pre Game speeches? eating of a W?

    Maybe it’s just me..but I would prefer my QB be able to read defenses and get the ball out accurately.

    There is such a thing as Winston Derangement Syndrome, but it doesn’t belong exclusively to his detractors, clearly…

  44. Magadude Says:

    We didn’t pay Brad Johnson franchise QB money, nor has Winston earned it. Winston is ONE of many reasons this team sucks. So very many. No one is arguing tht he does some things better than others either. His best strength by far is extending plays. That’s not enough. Same old stuff with Winston.

    Apologists over and over act that this is all they hear: “Jameis sucks, he’s the reason they lose.” Not true. And he sure as he11 is not worth blowing 20-25% of the salary cap over with other needs. Guys can constantly say he’s than x, better than y, etc. That doesn’t mean Winston is cutting it. Not worth blowing more money on with the track he’s on. He needs to buck up, and fast. And so does the O line.

  45. Buc4life Says:

    Did we not see that since Winston has been in the NFL his offensive coordinator was Dirk Koetter, who does throw screen passes to RBs because he wanted them to block? You so-called Bucs fans are a joke! Both Winston and Fitzpatrick held the ball the longest in the league because that’s what Koetter’s offensive plays called for. That’s why Devonte Freeman couldn’t get on the field when Koetter was the offensive coordinator in Atlanta (he said Freeman couldn’t block and Koetter didn’t care to use him on screen passes). How do y’all couch potato experts say that Winston can’t read defenses or lock in on one receiver when championship coaches and analysts (Gruden, Marriuchi, Difler and more raved about how he was one of the smartest QBs there ever had on the chalkboard figuring out defenses and knowing where to throw the ball. You idiots discuss me with these hate filled messages. Why can’t you put the hate down and cheer for your team. Winston is learning a completely new offense and he is the only player on the field that is required to know where the other 21 players are. But I’m sure y’all couch potato, MEGA hat wearing QBs can do it so much better!!!

  46. buc53 Says:

    Man, some of y’all…

    There’s a lot to knock Jameis for (fumbles, downfield accuracy, high risk passes), but football intelligence is not one of them. Every single coach that has worked with Jameis from HS on has praised his football intelligence to an unbelievable degree. Players that come in (including this offseason) constantly discuss how quickly he picks up schemes and new information.

    So, those of you insulting his intelligence are either just unbelievably ignorant (which I hope is the case) or you fall in the disgraceful category of those who believe the old racist trope that all black quarterbacks lack intelligence.

  47. Pittsshore Says:

    Is it a coincidence that the early posters on this article were all negative about JW and then ten o’clock rolls around and all the JW supporters start chiming in?!?! My hypothesis: smarter people are usually early risers and the ignorant people tend to sleep in after a night out of debauchery…..just like JW himself. Misery does need company.

  48. Jmarkbuc Says:

    “Is Jameis limited by how quickly he can process the field and also get the ball out (accurately)? Sure, he is not elite in this area, but he does many other things better than most NFL QBs.”

    What would that be exactly? Spiritual leadership? Rousing pre game speeches? Dining on W’s?

    Maybe it’s just me, but I would prefer my QB be able to read a defense and get the ball out accurately..just sayin’

    There is such thing as “Winston Derangement Syndrome “, but it’s not exclusive to his detractors..obviously.

  49. Oneilbucs Says:

    Well let’s just cut him now. If every thing you guys say is true then how come the bucs haven’t moved on from him??? But now I’m tired of the Jamies bashing just cut him and go get a guy next year so we can go to the super bowl in 2020 cause Jamies is the problem to this team. If Jamies plays good it’s just preseason it don’t mean nothing. If he plays bad in preseason then it means every thing it’s a big problem now. Even if his o line played bad some kind of way it’s his fault. Man want yall go root for another team this year if it’s that bad and yall hate Jamies so much then why do you want to watch him play??? Now I hope he leaves even if he win a super bowl I hope he leave this trash fan base and franchise!!!!

  50. Magadude Says:

    Last I checked, Mayfield is Cleveland’s problem, not ours. Yeah, just preseason: the was dress rehearsal for the QB whisperer rolling out his offense, including the mostly same old O line, under the embattled struggling QB he is here to fix. That was the culmination for all that’s happened/been addressed with this offense since BA and his team rolled in here. It’s the last time tht unit will face game speed and opponent before it counts. At the very best, we can say they just had a bad game. I had to look to see if we had Lovie on the sideline still and a rookie overall first pick. Not a warm fuzzy. You can diminish and divert all you want…but thats the reality.

  51. Joe Says:

    My hypothesis: smarter people are usually early risers and the ignorant people tend to sleep in after a night out of debauchery

    So much for Winston Churchill. 🙄

    Or, it could be the Jameis haters are so full of rage they can’t sleep and the morning sun is their dog whistle to spread venom and fire off “Get rid of him!” comments.

    It beats breaking out the hungry German shepherds and firehoses.

  52. Joe Says:

    Just to make it clear… my criticism of Jameis is not personal..


    Dude, you are absolutely consumed by him.

  53. Buc4life Says:

    I think MEGAdud need to cut some eye holes in that red cap ur wearing if you know understand what I mean. Both Winston and Arians said he missed some check downs. What QB dont when defensive linemen are on top of him before he does a 3-step drop. Cleveland has a top-3 defensive line so we as a team have to prepare for it. Again its preseason and everyone on offense is learning. And like what was said earlier, Winston didn’t have his main target (Evans) or his two security brackets (Brate and Humpries) to throw the ball to. Stop hating and root for the team or continue to spread this hate-filled rhetoric your dictator spew!

  54. AlteredEgo Say: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    Bwahaha…. not anymore than you or anyone else here…admin Says:
    August 25th, 2019 at 11:24 am
    Just to make it clear… my criticism of Jameis is not personal..


    Dude, you are absolutely consumed by him.

  55. Dapostman Says:

    So Pittshore aka Cliff Claven has a hypothesis.

    Enough said.

  56. ChipBuc Says:

    Like i said Magadude that’s your reality. Doesn’t mean it’s true, doesn’t mean it’s false. Let sit back and see how it all unfolds. I think BA will put a better team around Winston, so we will see what he truly can do with a balanced team.

  57. Jeffbuc Says:

    I only had one goal for jameis that I wanted to see. To really see if he wasgoing to be able to avoid. And that was no picks. I was telling my buddy before the game jameis usually has awful games against 3-4 defenses. He seems to get fooled by the end dropping in coverage and throws an easy interception right to them. Think bears last year and browns last year. So he impressed me by not throwing a pick in a vanilla offense versus an attacking defense. That was I wanted to see Friday and he delivered.

  58. Jeffbuc Says:

    And magadude you say this is a passing league and he isn’t passing the eye test. You do realize the bucs has the number 1 passing offense in the whole league last year.

  59. Tony1775 Says:

    He has the weapons so what will be the excuse this year? The O line, new scheme, lack of running game, ect. The point is he has yet to show he is a consistent QB, and if it hasn’t happened by now most likely it wont happen. I hope he does enough to get us in the playoffs.

  60. Magadude Says:

    Wow, all in the last 18 hours thereabouts…Joe calls posters here who are critical of Jameis “klan,” tells them they want Gabbert and everyone knows why (which is false BS from Joe) Whaaaat????–Joe –now talking about dog whistles. Is this the same Joe that calls people feces and says he’d be proud to have a daughter that bilked a man out of a lot of money? I think Joe’s more nervous than anything that Winston isn’t cutting it–it’s showing. When an operator of the site attacks the posters…..and here was JBF that last place to be candid.

    I think a lot of us are consumed by the Bucs, and especially when the QB SUCKS it up for years on end…as ONE of MANY reasons the team sucks. Consumed does not mean personal. That statement is full of it.

  61. Magadude Says:

    JeffBuc…if you can’t recognize parody from serious criticism I can’t help you. You do remeber I was joking about the healthcare insurance must be bad, right? There were a lot of reasons they passed a lot last year. Playing from behind and no run game, great receivers, etc. Those are also contributors to why they lose. You are taking issue with a comment abut his eye exam? BTW, I wasn’t the iguy who made that excuse.

  62. Magadude Says:

    Buc4life…Oh, I know you mean. Eye holes and all. The Apologists throw out the race card more and more every day. Too bad, so sad.

  63. BucsBandit Says:

    I *love* how so much that many of us Winston-critics have been saying for years is finally starting to be reinforced with STAtISTICS that tell the true story of Winston’s weaknesses.

    To the unbiased EYE TEST of watching Winston play it’s obvious he takes too long to make decisions. He has trouble reading Defenses quickly. His overall Football IQ (which he does have) doesn’t translate to a “FAST PROCESSING” Football IQ for those split seconds after the snap.

    Winston isn’t efficient immediately after the snap. Takes too long to make decisions, holds the ball which often leads to turnover and other mistakes.

    I also think his FOOTWORK is some of the worst in the NFL. Why does Winston look UNCOMFORTABLE on every play? And don’t even give me this it’s because of the O-Line play. He has many plays with great protection, and so did Fitz last season.

    The Bucs ranked 15th (above average) in the NFL last season for Pass Protection giving up a sack only 6.6% of plays:

    Those stats are even skewed a bit due to Winston holding the ball longer than other QBs. So the Bucs OL last year would have ranked even higher, possibly Top 10 in the NFL.

    So someone please tell me again how any Winston critics on this site are just “biased” and “wrong” and only dislike Winston because it’s “personal.”

    He receives criticism because he SUCKS. He has too many weaknesses to be a solid NFL QB after so many years in the league. The guy is definitely not worth $30M/year which will be the biggest mistake this team could make.

  64. gotbbucs Says:

    I cant even remotely imagine what a good QB would be able to do with the recieving options that are in this team.
    A QB with a quick release, accuracy, and good timing would absolutely tear the NFL apart.

    Does anybody think it’s a coincidence that Ryan Griffin Is moving the ball up and down the field by taking the underneath routes?
    Winston does not have it in him to play inside of a system. He doesnt understand situational football. On a a 3rd and 4, he will throw an incomplete deep ball instead of dumping it off for 5 yards and giving his guy a chance to turn it up field.
    Tom Brady isnt a perennial MVP because he throws tons of bombs, he’s an elite QB because he hits guys in stride underneath and picks defenses apart.

  65. AlteredEgo Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    Well said ! gotbbucs Says:
    August 25th, 2019 at 12:15 pm

  66. Dapostman Says:

    Gotbbucs says:

    Does anybody think it’s a coincidence that Ryan Griffin Is moving the ball up and down the field by taking the underneath routes?


    lol. The guy is 30 years old, has been in training camps for years and no one has ever thought of putting him in a real game with real NFL players. I wonder why?

  67. Buc4life Says:

    Megadud. As long as you understood what I was saying. I have been a Bucs fan since the beginning and a season ticket holder since 1999. We have been through many bad QBs, but I have never talked bad about them like the hate I see you and some other so-called Bucs fans say about Winston. The way you make it sound Winson is the worst QB in the league and that’s far from the truth. Winston is a 25 year old QB with the abilities to be great. If you can’t cheer for him Miami isn’t too far for you to drive to the games.

  68. Magadude Says:

    That is how you take it Buc4Life. I think I’ve been clear I hope he wins. I’ve also been clear I hope he sorts his life out. But like you, I’ve been a Bucs fan forever…and has said he’s not worth the baggage he brings. No Bucs QB has ever had such a list of off field issues and disgraced his team so much than he. I don’t owe him allegience. I sure don’t owe him support for next year with what I’ve seen so far this year. And I’ve never said anything close to racist here…yet you say what you do? Why do you have to attribute it to race? Winston is a 25 year old QB with the abilities to be great…and so far under the QB whisperer and after four years he looks the same…and is not worth the baggage. Why do you, and others, and now Joe, have to start racebaiting people?

  69. Oneilbucs Says:

    Magdu, Alter, Pitts, we all know how yall feel. Every lost regardless how good he plays will be his fault. You all will cherry pick something out of the game to make Jamies the reason why the team lost . Well let me tell yall something right now he’s not going to throw and complete 45 out of 45 passes, sometimes he may even throw a pick in the first half. So want yall go somewhere in root for another team please. Yall are the most negative fake fans I’ve ever seen. Yall hope he fails and yall hope that the team lose as long as Jamies is on the team. We all know how yall feel!!!!

  70. Magadude Says:

    In case there are any questions…bucs4life and others:

    English Language Learners Definition of race-baiting
    US, disapproving : the unfair use of statements about race to try to influence the actions or attitudes of a particular group of people

    You can disagree without throwing the card, can’t you? When you see hard evidence of posters and media not being in on Winston because of racially charged statements, then bring it up–CALL THEM OUT. But throwing out the card because you’re frustrated and all out of Schlitz for making your point dilutes how well we can respond to people that really are racist…in words and actions.

  71. Magadude Says:

    Buc4Life says: “If you can’t cheer for him Miami isn’t too far for you to drive to the games.”
    That’s some stupid stuff there. As bad as the drivel Trump says…have a nice day Buc4Life…

  72. Buc4life Says:

    Those are your words not mine Megadud. I see a young QB who has had no running game or defense for four years and still put up good numbers. Now he has a new coach and scheme and you are drowning him after 1/2 of a preseason game. It took Carson Palmer over half a year to really learn this offense so give Winson at least a full game. And hopefully he will have a defense to help him.

  73. Oneilbucs Says:

    Magdu bucs4life didn’t say anything about race. Maybe you do have a problem with his race you and the other haters. Cause Jamies is on this team and me and the others just want to see the team win. And all the off the field problem you are the only one who keep talking about something that happened over 4 years ago that still couldn’t be proven. So bro you and the rest of your Klan can go root for another team. Cause alot of the real bucs fans are just tired of yall now it’s football season and it’s been along wait to watch football again. So can yall please go root for another team so we can enjoy the season???? Man !!!!!!

  74. Bobbo Says:

    It’s because Koetter preached the long ball and couldn’t call a check down to save his life

  75. BucsBandit Says:

    @Buc4Life: “I see a young QB who has had no running game or defense for four years…”


    Doug Martin rushed for over 1,400+ YARDS (2nd in the NFL) in Winston’s first season and Winston could only win 6 games. Stop making excuses for Winston.

    @Oneilbucs – ALL Bucs fans just want to see the team win. That doesn’t give Winston a pass on his mediocre play. People are extra critical of Winston this year because it’s a CONTRACT year. If he can’t progress to the next level of play then it will be a MAJOR mistake that sets this team back 5-7+ years if they give Winston a big contract extension of $30M+/year.

  76. MadMax Says:

    HAHA, well, for the record, im an early riser because of my job…usually up by 4am….5am on days off. And I usually average 4-5 hrs of sleep. Im def no JW3 hater, I want him to succeed here but i also dont pretend theres not any issues. Call me a hater call me whatever, i couldnt care less (does that hurt your snowflake feelings too). Yes the O line nearly got him killed in that last game. Its not all his fault! But when i do see him have time, he usually does the same thing over and over. Its beautiful when it works. But when it doesnt and you see the other open options he had, well you observe and call it like i do.

    Fact is fact, film is film! Unless your iq is below 80, you should be able to see certain things….or youre just blinded by the love for a certain player (JW in this case). He’s great when he’s on…awful when he isnt. But yes, the O line certainly needs to be addressed and BA better start more protection TE’s and RB’s at this point. Adjustments can be made to help JW where he cannot adjust!

  77. T REX Says:

    Go Bucs 72 Says:
    August 25th, 2019 at 10:52 am
    This isn’t Madden or the NBA you clowns. None of the imbecilic trades mentioned are even remotely possible in the NFL. I’ll take BA’s assessment of Jameis any day over all the butt hurt Gator fans that are making idiots of themselves no here daily.

    DalvinCookRules Says:
    August 25th, 2019 at 10:41 am
    The definition of insanity is NOT “doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result”–that was merely a quip by Albert Einstein to show his disdain for STUBBORNNESS (by trying to equate it to “insanity”)
    The word “insanity” might be better attributed to Bucs fans who think Jameis is the reason this team continues to suck.

    It’s funny to fsucks fans call out Gator fans for saying Winston sucks. He does. LOL. That has nothing to do with anything Gator. Derrick Brooks is one of my all time favorite players and he went to FSU. Loved Dunn too. It’s you have to assign some kind of rationalization instead of actually understanding Winston isn’t very good. I mean give it a rest already. One more year then we can shed these loser fsu fans that aren’t BUC fans first.

  78. Magadude Says:

    Joe, to answer your question:

    Magadue wrote: “Wow, all in the last 18 hours thereabouts…Joe calls posters here who are critical of Jameis “klan,” tells them they want Gabbert and everyone knows why (which is false BS from Joe)”
    In that, Joes says: “Whaaaat????–Joe”
    Last night, Joe wrote:
    to Bandi…”But, you and Alter and the rest of your Klan will be too busy painting the ceiling that you ran Jameis out of town. Mazel tov!

    To me:
    “Of course, you want Blaine Gabbert as quarterback. We all know why.”

    I never said I wanted it, and in fact, have stated the opposite. Bashed BA for even bringing him in.

    Bravo…I see you changed the word to “clan” from “Klan” since 9:10pm last night when you posted it–and I captured it. No, I did not get the spelling wrong…it was with a “k” which is why I asked you at 9:28 to clarify.

    Hey, it’s your site. But you’ve lost a lot of levity it seems since Friday’s bad game by the starting O. Kinda sucks to see you doing ad hominum attacks. I expect it from some others. Haven’t lost any levity or reality. Jameis has always been an inconsistent NFL QB in total. You’re really taking all this over the top. –Joe

  79. Magadude Says:

    ^^^Levity not the right word…lost a lot of cred for being civil. But…JBF is all yours.

  80. MadMax Says:

    Maga, i dont even respond to idiot race card moments….it isnt worth my time…cant fix stupid.

  81. MadMax Says:

    HAHA, well, for the record, im an early riser because of my job…usually up by 4am….5am on days off. And I usually average 4-5 hrs of sleep. Im def no JW3 hater, I want him to succeed here but i also dont pretend theres not any issues. Call me a hater call me whatever, i couldnt care less (does that hurt your sno-flake feelings too). Yes the O line nearly got him sidelined in that last game. Its not all his fault! But when i do see him have time, he usually does the same thing over and over. Its beautiful when it works. But when it doesnt and you see the other open options he had, well you observe and call it like i do.

    Fact is fact, film is film! Unless your iq is below 80, you should be able to see certain things….or youre just blinded by the love for a certain player (JW in this case). He’s great when he’s on…awful when he isnt. But yes, the O line certainly needs to be addressed and BA better start more protection TE’s and RB’s at this point. Adjustments can be made to help JW where he cannot adjust!

  82. Magadude Says:

    MadMax…you are probably right. Done with it.

  83. MadMax Says:

    Well, i have a post in moderation….thought it was a few key words, changed them, and the revised is in moderation after a short post i just made….so, if a double post occurs, im sorry for that (if its approved)

  84. Pittsshore Says:

    Suc4life. Put the bong down. You my friend are dumb as dirt.

  85. MadMax Says:

    When the weak cant win an argument backed up with facts, they go straight to name calling, race card pulling and making fun of you which in turn is fun to watch if you do like i do. Let the kids be kids and entertain lol….

  86. Pittsshore Says:

    And I do believe Joe May have had one to many bloody’s this morning when he send out the racist garbage.

  87. JimmyJack Says:

    Getting the ball out quicker is a new concept for Winston. It surely wasn’t a focal point of Dirk’s offense.

    I liked how he got the ball out quickly in the Pittsburg game. The Browns game not so much. It stands to reason that QB pressure was what made the difference.

    So now we have to see the team adjust. Was a little upset we saw no adjustment Friday Night but with it being preseason not having a entire playbook could be part of the reason. Winston did play poorly but the silver lining could be the film that was put out. Certain playcalling to stay away from something tangable for the QB to learn from.

    We cannot block as poorly as we did on Friday. That goes without saying. But either SanFran or Carolina have lines that could given us similar fits. How this team adjusts may well define how good we can be this year………Adjustment at every level. From coaching to playcalling to blocking to QB decision making.

    Don’t expect a miracle overnight and it may take some time to master. Seem to remember stats showing Carson Palmer taking a few games til he could master this offense too.

    In the meantime our defense has looked legit and looks capable of contributing to a winning effort even if it has to be ugly at first.

    The ultimate test will be the adjustment. My money goes with this coaching staff and I stand by my 11-5 prediction. Y’all let that preseason game define us if you wish. I will refuse!!!

    Let the Bucs get good and then we can be great!!!!

  88. Magadude Says:

    @MadMax. LOL. There are those, and a growing list, who I never respond to anymore. The list got longer today! I’ve been spit on, shot at, blown up. Not so much a problem. What does stink that is hard to tolerate with so much racism left in society stll to stamp out, some say and do stupid stuff, make baseless accusations and ad hominum attacks…that make it harder to nail the guys who really do bad stuff. I separate folks quite a bit who throw the card around, and then when you make them back up their accusations, too often they don’t, can’t, and then it’s clear that’s where the fabric in the workplace broke down. Shouldn’t consider this site anything other than a hole. Thanks for the advice.

  89. JameisNOT Says:

    Wow wow wow. I have not been on this site for quite some time and it appears as if I have been missing some juicy stuff. At one time it was always me against everyone in this site as it pertains to how terrible JameisNOT is as a player and a human. Now it is about 70% of the posters. Cheers to that. Looks like a good chuck of the JameisNOT supporters have finally accepted that this guy flat out sucks. Now if we can only get poor little Joey to accept it. He has single handily set this franchise back ten years.

  90. MadMax Says:

    Yeah, its went downhill the past 2 years or so…..but drama sells and gets clicks lol. I like the Joes for the most part, and its an outlet, especially on game day….Boy do i love coming here and rooting for a win and then getting it! Thats what its supposed to be all about.

  91. Magadude Says:

    MadMax…I’m either iin the RayJay or on the road live in the stadiums MOST of the times on game days. May pay a visit here if in hotel or home, but that’s it. Used to read, then read more here when Trib went under and TBT went stupid…never really paid much attention to comments until earlier this year. Running out of places to get decent Bucs coverage. Now…

  92. Buc4life Says:

    Ofcourse Pittshore if we dont agree with your base you start the name calling. I only speak facts: name another recent first round QB who has been given a worse defense and run game than Winston. Our defense have given up more yards in the past three years than any defense in twenty years. Outside of Winston’s rookie year when Lovie was head coach, our run game has been poor. The reason Winston stats show him holding the ball is that is how Koetter’s offenses are run. Yes Winston need to improve but he is no where near a failed QB. If he would have been drafted by any of these other teams with young first round QBs he would be a playoff winning QB. Dont judge him by 1/2 of his 3rd preseason game with a new coach and system. He been in one offense this far in his career and no defense or run game to help him. So I guess these other superbowl winning evaluators who say how smart Winton is, is dumb as dirt too. Pittshore I’m sure you are the smartest person you know. So you have another hit on your bong.

  93. TonyC Says:

    It’s obvious Winston is adjusting to the new offense. He had opportunities to make plays and he didn’t so we’ll see how things pan out week one. The Arians is more about winning maybe not putting up great numbers. This kid has to learn how to win againZ

  94. Doc Says:

    Joe did not print the length of the routes or how many was dump off screens to the running backs. the snap to pass time will be short in the regular season, because of type of offense this is, which is a quick pass offense to open the long pass. The offense was in display in the first drive of the Pittsburgh game. Take a chill pill.

  95. BucsBandit Says:

    Here’s just something people to get…

    If you’re a highly drafted NFL QB… especially the #1 overall pick…

    You’ve got a max of 5 years to prove you’re worth $30M+/year. If you’re are, then you’ve earned a new contract for 4-5 more years. BUT…

    Teams know that they better make the right decision in awarding a young QB a long-term, high dollar extension.

    The Salary Cap this year in the NFL is $188.2 million. $30M is 16% of the Salary Cap.

    Your QB needs to be nearly flawless and a proven, long-term performer in order to take up 16% of your cap space or you’re… well… SCREWED.

    All the Jameis Homers just don’t understand MATH.

    Overpaying the most expensive position on the team for an underperforming player is literally the equivalent of starting a Chess game without a queen. The odds are just greatly against you that you will succeed on a long-term basis.

    If Jameis continues his “patchy” and inconsistent play (especially in the turnover department which gives away games) then he has GO TO GO. It’s just that simple.

    This isn’t about running Jameis out of town, it’s about not letting the Tampa Bay Buccaneers go to battle every week for the next 5+ years by starting each game without the queen on the board and being at a major disadvantage with the Salary Cap and what they’re getting for their FINITE amount of salary funds.

  96. Dapostman Says:


    Yawn….….your obsession is showing. May want to see a doc.

  97. gambelero Says:

    Nobody will read this after 96 comments, but maybe Joe will. Time to throw, defined as snap to release, has got to be one of the most misleading stats out there. It’s terribly skewed by scramble to throw plays. Every year the leaders are your scramble to throw guys–of which Jameis is definitely one.

    Now that doesn’t mean he didn’t take too long the other night on a couple of plays or that we need to work on hot reads and quick throws. One 3rd and 10 where Jameis had Perriman coming open over the middle about five yards downfield, but he held it and got sacked stands, stands out for the former issue while a miss between Jameis and the receiver (Watson I think) when the Browns were blitzing stands out for the latter problem.

    Nevertheless, there were too many out and out blowups given up by our oline. For every play where the sack was on Winston for holding it too long, there were two plays where he escaped the pressure and made something positive happen or at least threw the ball away.

  98. AlteredEgo Say: Your comment is awaiting moderation. Says:

    BucsBandit=‘s reality

  99. BucsBandit Says:


    Don’t hate on people that use FACTS when you’re all about emotions. Just sayin.

  100. Dapostman Says:


    Your constant whining about Winston proves you are the one in an emotional state.

    Your narrative of underperforming is subjective. Winston has improved every year he has been in the league in Comp % and yards per game. If you count, which I do, the last 6 1/2 games of last year he improved his int % too. He is a young QB with upside. See I can be subjective too.

    You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

  101. JameisNOT Says:

    Dapostalman: 4 years of poor performance is enough already. The best thing for him would be to go to another team. He is constantly worried about his image and this has got to be effecting his practice and performance. You are aware that he lead the first team to ZERO points in the first half. Are you also aware that that he is the 24th ranked QB AND due to his poor projection the team is ranked as 29th in the league. Bottom line: he sucks

  102. Jmarkbuc Says:

    Doesn’t JW generally perform well in the last six games of a season?

    Usually after a horrific string of games that have the townfolk and their pitchforks in a rage? He shows just enough to make you wonder..and then the next season starts..and back to square one. JS.

  103. mh1023 Says:

    You can hold the ball in college, not in the pros. Good QB’s throw the receivers open and hit them in stride where the plays are made. I was told drafting this QB was the “cure all” to woeful OL play, not the case. Winston is a privileged QB though, had Glennon or any other QB been average in decisions on the field (not counting off the field) they would be toast.

  104. mark2001 Says:

    Jameis holds the ball looking for the homerun. But he can’t hit the homerun accurately. And he locks on to the homerun ball and misses the open guy underneath. And you think that is a defeatist characteristic? Bingo.

  105. Buc1987 Says:

    Maga needs to submit one of his Winston Hate lists to the Glazers….

    They’ll prolly use it for the toilet paper that it is….

    ..and give Jameis an extension.

  106. Buc1987 Says:

    Winston Excuse List*

  107. BrianBucs Says:

    Winston has always been slow to read coverages, slow to go through his progressions and slow to deliver the ball. This doesnt come as a surprise to no anyone who has been paying attention

  108. Tval Says:

    All these morons saying Jameis doesn’t do this or that. Did you SEE a The last game?? 🙈🙈😆😆
    I’d like to see Tom “go through his reads” with Myles Garrett and Olivier Vernon on his arse in 1 SECOND!!! You guys need to get a grip..And the BLATANT racism is alarming and voids 50-60% of the detractors.
    I’m sorry but we understand how a klan member would feel about Jameis. Or is it “good people on both sides”? OUCH!!!!!!!!!!

  109. Morgus the Magnificent Says:

    Duthsty Rhothdes says “send him to indy for their next 2 #1s & 2s and brissett”….it that were even REMOTELY possible, it would’ve been done already.

    And ENOUGH with you idiots calling critics of Winston racists.

  110. T REX Says:

    Winston is getting exposed this year…and not to an Uber driver.

  111. BucsBandit Says:

    I love the “you’re a racist!” excuse if someone doesn’t like Jameis.

    PLEASE… for the love of God… tell me how I can contribute towards making a Jameis Winston for Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes trade. PUHLEAAAASSSE!

    I don’t criticize Winston because he’s black, I criticize him because he kinda sucks and is inconsistent and I think giving him $30M/year is going to hamstring this team for 5+ more years. I’m all for TRADING HIM (or drafting) a better QB, even if that QB is also black. So race has nothing to do with it.