Expensive Motivation

August 15th, 2019

Not a good look if true.

There are few NFL writers who have the contacts and do the research that Albert Breer of theMMQB.com has and does. Joe respects him, but what he posted yesterday irked Joe.

Breer was out at One Buc Palace this week. You know, high-profile NFL columnist from the northeast does a drive-by visit to One Buc Palace and after getting backroom sitdowns with Bucs types for maybe about six hours, he’s all caught up with all things Bucs and then runs to his rental car to head out.

Hey, at least prickly Pete Prisco spent two days at One Buc Palace.

Now Joe is not knocking this or what Breer Twittered yesterday. Here it is and see if you can pick up on what has Joe bothered.

Albert Breer: CBs Vernon Hargreaves and Carlton Davis (who also have underachieved some) have turned in promising summers. The team spent two Top 100 picks on CBs (Sean Bunting, Jamel Dean), and it sure looks that might’ve lit a fire under Hargreaves and Davis.

Now hold up! Joe isn’t disputing one thing Breer typed. What irks Joe is it seems, in order to motivate two starting cornerbacks to play well, the Bucs had to burn two high draft picks this past spring.

Who the hell does that?

Like those picks couldn’t have been used to fortify other positions, and Lord knows this team needed fortifying on so many levels after losing 22 games the past two seasons.

If — and Joe is guessing — Hargreaves and Davis couldn’t be motivated in any other way other than to threaten their jobs with high draft picks, maybe they shouldn’t even be on the roster? What does that tell you about the makeup of this team if guys — starters! — can only be motivated to play well if their jobs are in jeopardy?

At worst, Joe believes Hargreaves is motivated to play well and stay here because of his fifth-year option that will pay him nearly $10 million if he is retained for 2020. As Hargreaves said earlier this training camp, this is his hometown. He has friends and family here. The last thing he wants is to embarrass his family and friends in his hometown.

48 Responses to “Expensive Motivation”

  1. AKickInTheBucNuts Says:

    They are playing better because BA has eliminated the country club they used to belong to.

  2. Defense Rules Says:

    I agree with you Joe, faulty logic on Breer’s part. Our Secondary stunk it up last year for several reasons, not the least of which was injuries. BA & TB didn’t draft SMB, Dean & Edwards to light a fire under anyone. They were drafted because a strong Secondary is critical to TB’s defense.

    The fact that VHIII in particular is playing better comes down to (1) he’s not injured (finally); and (2) TB’s hybrid defensive scheme fits VHIII’s skillset much better. Like him as a nickel CB, but not as a starting outside corner … he’ll get burned just enough to hurt the team. And I still contend that at $9 mil he won’t be here next year. If he does poorly or average, he’s gone. If he does very well, we won’t be able to afford him next year. In the end it’ll all come down to money.

  3. Magadude Says:

    Yup Joe, think this came up when the new guys were drafted…many were like WTF? You are right to revist that because we may still be in trouble back there, and who would that point to? Ouch.

  4. Magadude Says:

    And it’s not like there are any other positions of need.

  5. Bucsfanman Says:

    The writing is on the wall. Produce or be replaced. It’s how competent organizations handle personnel.
    Any scenario that sees Hargreaves produce is a win-win.
    Competent coaching, different mind-set!

  6. NO RISK IT NO BISCUIT Says:

    New coaching…new scheme…new attitude.

    As Simple As That!!!!

    Go Bucs!!!

  7. NO RISK IT NO BISCUIT Says:

    New coaching…new scheme…new attitude.

    As Simple As That!!!!

    Go Bucs!!!

  8. BucEmUp Says:

    So now we have 4 hugh draft pick corners in a league that usually has three atarting wrs on yhe filed at all times.

    I think the reason they are playing betyer is because they believe in yhe system they are playing in and the coaches they are playing for

  9. 6Gawd Says:

    well this is what Koetter and Kompany allowed. Bad coaching = bad players. Gotta find the motivation and get guys that fit what the new coaching staff plans on doing. For as long as JBF has been in the game you guys should understand that by now.

  10. Old Time Buc Says:

    I can only say that I hope Breer is wrong! And unfortunately Def R is right. Nickel was his best pos. Maybe playing bump will help but at that pos you can’t make any mistakes.

  11. AlabamaBucsFan Says:

    The Bucs have had high draft picks for almost a decade now. If the new coaching scheme can turn them into caliber players, then we should be loaded with talent.

  12. BigHog Says:

    BA comes to town evaluates talent and decides to take this path to better the team, then some outside reporter has a problem …use your head every coach does things as he see fit if it doesn’t work then talk..until then keep talking, I for ONE ain’t trying to here that BULL…too much of that going around already….STOCK MARKET📉⬇️ GO BUCS GO FAMOUS GO SUHY GO CO-CO SCHNELL!!!

  13. NO RISK IT NO BISCUIT Says:

    Joe where is your Sapp story????
    you are killing me here?!?!?!?

  14. DB55 Says:

    Serious question. Does anyone still truly care or are we just here for the banter?

  15. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Don’t forget about MJ Stewart & Justin Evans……..we needed those three DBs for several reasons…..and motivating the existing DBs was one of them.
    Bolstering an injury-plagued defensive backfield with faster, more aggressive players is a very good thing. We have coaches who can develop and a DC who knows what he is doing.

  16. Buccaroo Says:

    Don’t take it out on the players for what some drive-by journalist writes.

  17. Bob in Valrico Says:

    You have to think that BA wasn’t drafting players to be backups. He probably expected more from SMB especially. Since our corners lost time due to injury
    last year, it would help if they stepped up the learning curve. I agree witth DR that VH3 will get beat at times. It puzzles me that Jordan Whitehead was playing in more of a free safety role on the one play that VH3 got beat. In my opinion ,he is a strong safety who was out of position and reacted badly to the play. When its becomes obvious that you are going to get no safety help then its up to the corner to stay with his man and make a play.

    Ronde Barber was great because he spent time in the film room learning QB
    and receiver tendencies. I believe VH3 can improve his game if he does this.
    IF you have a good idea what a receiver or QB is going to do then you might have a better chance of jumping a route or making a play.

  18. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    Seems like Breer is speculating…

    No story here

    Waiting for Joes post about Sapp destroying McCoy on PR’s podcast

  19. #1bucsfan Says:

    That’s just his assumption. Nobody really knows if that was the main reason for motivation. I bet it’s the coaching staff actually developing it’s olayers an that’s why they are having a good summer but it won’t matter unless they step up in the game not preseason or practice

  20. Ben real Says:

    I KNOW JOE loves McCoy so much he won’t even write a article about the Sapp and Gerald saga …. it would open flood gates and he just can’t write about it … it hurts his heart too much

  21. Snook Says:

    This sounds like what Ronde discussed earlier in the week at his press conference. Competition pushes some and does nothing to others.

  22. PSLBob Says:

    New defensive scheme. Besides every coach in the league will tell you, you can’t have too many good cornerbacks. Agree, the Breer’s logic is suspect. Hargreaves is primed for a good season playing the press coverage he is best fit for.

  23. Hfxbuc Says:

    What a crap take…. There were 2 maybe 3 NFL CBs on the roster going into the draft. The cupboard was bare. CB maybe the most important position on the Defence that wants to do multiple things up front (you can’t do much if your corners can’t cover – see NEs scheme and roster approach)

    They drafted SMB and Dean because they wanted talent in important positions. Both have traits to be elite CBs.

    Beer is actually Laconfora level terrible.

  24. Loyaltotheend Section 312 Says:

    Ben real

    They didn’t get the interview so doubt they talk about it

  25. Pittsshore Says:

    The GM sets the culture for the entire organization. Last I checked we still have the same kicker lovin, Apple Turnover starting, can’t draft an OLineman to save his life, GM. Nothing changes until he is gone. Hell, why not make Arians the GM since he already has it setup that way….master delegator.

  26. Rayjay1122 Says:

    I agree with Hfxbuc. We drafted DB’s because we needed DB’s. Next year we will probably focus on OL and DL. So, a possible side effect of drafting DB’s was lighting afire under VH3 and Davis but to say that was the reason why is just typical lazy national media reporting.

  27. Wombat Says:

    Have 4 quality CB’s on a roster is a necessity in today’s NFL….

  28. The Buc Realist Says:

    Not as expensive, as it has been to try and fix the game manager qb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2019 will reveal answers to the sheep, that the “real” fans already know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    go bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. El_Buc941 Says:

    I dont think thise draft picks have anything to do with it joe. Its more because they are in a better system that fits their capacity and what they excel at. Also they actually have a Defensive Coordinator that can coach!

  30. 813bucboi Says:

    DR

    every CB in the NFL gets “burned” from time to time….lol….

    what happened vs pitts was not his fault….arians has already came out and said whitehead screwed up…..

    and when you say” he has to play very well” what does that mean in your eyes?….getting 12 INTS and 30PBU’s?…..lol….

    imo, it wont come down to money….TB’s scheme needs lock down CB’s and when VHG shows that he can be just that, he’ll be extended…..remember, suh is on a 1year deal and who knows about JPP or LVD…..

    folks keep harping on his injuries but he’s not the only 1st round pick that has battled injuries on this team….VV and OJ have been just as injured….they havent been as productive as we would like either…..

    regarding the CB’s we’ve drafted, 2 things:

    we needed depth and competition brings out the best in every player…..the competition has lit a fire under VHG & CD….

    GO BUCS!!!!!!

  31. 813bucboi Says:

    realist

    we got what we paid for in dirk and smitty!!!!…tons of L’s and players that werent developed!!!!!!!

    glazers spent some $$$$$$ and things are already looking, feeling and smelling better now that the losing stench on dirk and smitty are out of the building!!!!!!!!!!!

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  32. Greg Says:

    Joe works so hard to trash Hargraves. I wish he used the same magnifying glass on Winston. I have been angry at Winston since we drafted him mostly for off field stuff but even I am rooting for him this year because Im a REAL Bucs fan. The team has done everything they can to support Winston between receivers, tight ends, promoting Koetter, and now Arians. Whats Hargraves had? No pass rush and horrible Defensive schemes. Stop the hypocrisy!

  33. Greg Says:

    Hargraves being a Gator I’m sure isn’t leading this witch hunt at all!!!!

  34. Erik Hesson - Fine Artist - City of St Pete (formerly known as 'The Kwon Alexander of Bucs Fans') ***Rhealist, louden annoying, & tminimum are the worst posters ever!!! Says:

    Questioning the motive here is ridiculous.

    We needed better corner play out of our 2 starting spots and we needed better depth and talent overall at the position, so we drafted more corners.

    If the 2nd-stringers are pushing the 1st-stringers, that’s better for all of us…

    Duh!

    We just want the best players on the field, regardless.

    This is a silly article/thought process by the Joes. Lol…

  35. christopher Says:

    Um. What? VHIII underachieved and was injury-prone, so you cover your ass IN A PASSING LEAGUE (like “Joe” points out) and make sure you have corners. IN RESPONSE, CD wanted to keep his starting job and VHIII wanted to keep his job period. Out of the 4 drafted (5 if you count MJ or 6 Ryan Smith), if you hit on half you’re doing fine. Before this draft it looked like they hit on one (CD), another reason why the jury is still out on Licht (Hi Vita).

  36. Swampbuc Says:

    Above all else, it’s the new scheme that has them motivated. They couldn’t play well in the old scheme, simple as that.

  37. miken Says:

    I think what lit a fire is having excellent coaching, not draft pick behind them.

  38. Father Rico Says:

    this is the less smart joe

  39. SenileSenior Says:

    New scheme suits Carlton and Hargreaves better. Will there ever be times 5, 6 or 7 DBs are all on the field at the same time? Is TB some kind of madman?

    Stay tuned.
    ______________
    Go Bucs!!! Attack!

  40. Barack's Crack Pipe Says:

    “CBs Vernon Hargreaves and Carlton Davis (who also have underachieved some) have turned in promising summers.”
    .
    .

    I don’t get lumping Carlton Davis in with Hargreaves as an underachiever. Judging any rookie cornerback as an underachiever is kinda lazy, seeing as it’s the most difficult position on the defense to transition to the pros. Hargreaves has been here long enough to earn the label.

  41. mark2001 Says:

    So Joe…here is the question..what do you do? Just cut them for sleeping during Koetters lack of discipline reign? Do you hope that Arians will light a fire under them, and if not or if it is something else, go through the season with lousy CB play? Or do you draft the two guys, eventually trade one or two of them, or let them walk away, and at least have some quality CB play? I think the later was the right move…and as I’ve said a hundred times… it was obvious to anyone and everyone that Koetter had no discipline or accountability in the locker room. I think Arians and Licht did the right thing on this score.

  42. 813bucboi Says:

    GREG

    i agree with everything you said…..

    when it comes to winston, joe and others always talk about no run game, no defense, play calling etc…

    when it came to GMC it was, he needs help….he needs a DE that can produce 10+sacks…..

    but when it comes to a gator oh i mean VHG, he bashes him….lol…even when arians says whitehead screwed up, joe still writes that VHG got burnt….

    heard X.howard pick off winston twice 1 being a pick 6 and no mention of that….f it was mentioned, it was a small footnote not an entire article talking about his accuracy or decision making….

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  43. Joe Says:

    Just cut them for sleeping during Koetters lack of discipline reign? Do you hope that Arians will light a fire under them, and if not or if it is something else, go through the season with lousy CB play?

    Joe was pretty clear in the post: Seems awfully reckless for a team with a pathetic defense with holes all over to spend high draft picks in an effort to motivate other high draft picks at the very same position. If those guys are that careless, unmotivated, maybe they shouldn’t even be on the roster? If it is just coaching, let the new staff coach those guys up and spend those valuable draft picks on other areas of the defense. Like this team couldn’t use pass rushers?

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. Joe knows. Devin White will fix everything. Been down this road before.

  44. Barack's Crack Pipe Says:

    DB55 Says:
    “Serious question. Does anyone still truly care or are we just here for the banter?”
    .
    .

    I believe that it is a little bit of both for most of us. But wtfdik.
    =]

  45. mark2001 Says:

    White should be good..maybe DRookie of the year. But it will be years before he is close to Ray Lewis and the guys he has been compared to….assuming he is all that.

  46. Siege the Bay Says:

    Bucs had to get new CB’s regardless. The position group was the biggest position of need and they were the worst in the NFL. Also it helps to have DEPTH at that position.

  47. D1 Says:

    @Joe,

    Did you leave out any part of the comments?

    If no, then you’ve mischaracterized what was actually said and replaced the subject of the sentence with one that is not identified. That’s one issue
    but not the only one.

  48. Nick2 Says:

    Slow down Joe, Bowles defense often uses 6 or 7 D backs on the field so all of these corners were needed badly. When you throw in injuries which wiill happen I bet they all see the field this year.

 

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