Red Zone Targets

July 14th, 2019

Feed him!

This subject is just baffling to Joe. And it also is to internationally popular columnist Ira Kaufman.

In a future podcast waiting to be published, Ira and Joe spoke briefly about red zone offense. The Bucs were No. 15 last year, middle of the pack.

Reviewing Joe’s copy of “Warren Sharp’s 2019 Football Preview,” Joe noted that Sharp breaks down red zone offense for the Bucs right down to who was targeted and where.

Mike Evans seems like a natural to throw high fade passes when the Bucs have the ball inside the 5-yard line. Well, that was not the case last year. Chris Godwin had the most targets inside the 5-yard line with four. Now Godwin is good fighting for passes, so this isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Guess who Godwin was tied with in targets when the Bucs had the ball inside an opponent’s 5-yard line? That would be towering Adam Humphries.


Look, Joe is a big Humphries fan and Joe is convinced the Bucs will miss him. But why target a guy who is neither known for his leaping ability nor his ability to catch in traffic inside the 5? That just makes no sense.

How many times did Bucs quarterbacks go to Evans inside the 5? Two times. Two! That’s inexcusable.

To be fair, Evans had 14 total targets inside the red zone, second only to Godwin’s 15. Interestingly, Jacquizz Rodgers had six targets in the red zone. Rodgers is currently looking for work.

Why the Bucs don’t constantly throw basketball passes to Evans deep in the red zone is a mystery to Joe, and to Ira as well.

80 Responses to “Red Zone Targets”

  1. Pryda...sec147 Says:

    I’d be curious to see how many times M1k3 was targeted inside the 5 yard line back when he was a rookie and scored 12 TD

  2. Todd Says:

    Well, consider this. Bruce Arians is the furthest thing from an offensive dumb ass.

    Evans will be targeted aplenty.

  3. Alanbucsfan Says:

    How many times was Evans double teamed in red zone?
    Focus needs to be on effective running game in red zone – if they fix the run game , offense is best in NFL.

  4. ben Says:

    Winston’s inaccuracy played apart in the failure in the red zone ..Maybe this year ?

  5. Magadude Says:

    Of course, things tighten up a great deal inside the 20. So it does make sense for Winston to use Evans more in that situation. His large catch radius can help overcome Winston’s well known accuracy problems. Hopefully BA will do better than Dirk in playing more to minimize many of Winston’s problem areas. Then if the D can do their jobs…

  6. martinii Says:

    Red Zone package: Evans. Howard, Brate, Godwin (as RB), (Perriman or Watkins in slot).

  7. stpetebucsfan Says:

    Agree with what Joe and everybody is saying about ME13 and red zone woes in general. Of course a truly solid running game would also take some heat off.

    But here is my hope. BA’s “no risk it no biscuit”…I’m hoping we simply see the red zone less because of longer TD’s…passing or running and of course some defensive TD’s would also be nice.

    Basically I agree with Todd…BA knows offense he’ll make sure the ball is distributed properly and the game is called properly.

    I suspect that Leftwich is on a very short leash…BA will have the overall influence and if Leftwich doesn’t’ get it done and BA thinks that’s the problem…as the late great Sam Cooke once sang…”A Change is Gonna Come”.

  8. BucEmUp Says:

    Its not just the defense…..the offense , special teams, situational football, in game adjustments EVERYTHING ACROSS THE BOARD WAS HELD BACK BY BAD COACHING!!!

  9. Jean Lafitte Says:

    Spread the ball around better. If you constantly key on the same receiver inside the 5, you might as well be predictable and just send one receiver, while everyone else stays back to block because essentially that’s what you’re doing anyway. Do like Tom Brady, use all your weapons. Brady knows how to pick on the weakest link in the secondary, but he is the king of reading defenses pre-snap. He practically knows the hot read before the play unfolds unlike Jameis who’s sometimes is slow through his progressions and has the longest release time of any top 15 QB. Hopefully the whisperer can change all that.

  10. Jim Says:

    I’m looking for but not finding receiver’s completion percentage. It always seemed that Hump was very reliable and I think Winston saw that, ergo…

  11. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Scoring from the 25 or 30 yard line would be a good way to eliminate so many red zone woes.

  12. Ndog Says:

    I love the accuracy topic cause people are sooooo misguided when it comes to that as Jameis is just a accurate as any of the top level QBs in the league. What people just can’t seem to understand is that when defenses know what you have to do the windows get tighter, the pass rush gets quicker and the best players get more attention paid to them. It is very simple, if I know your going to do something before you do it there is a reasonable chance that I am going to stop it. If you have two possible options then I have to prepare for both this limiting my odds of stopping you. Being in obvious passing situations consistently means more often you are throwing off platform, while facing pressure, and at the same time the Defense knows exactly where the targets you are trying to throw to have to get to. Yes this applies to all QBs but what seems to be lost to some, is that the more often one is in that situation the more often throws are going to appear high or late or low or behind and they are cause the timing is off, the foot placement is off, the arm angle is off and so and so on. Jameis is no different than and other QB or player for that matter put them in obvious situations and the less likely it is they succeed. Why do you think teams want offenses to be predictable? It’s cause when that happens the odds of success greatly decrease, yet many on this board want to blame that on the QB instead of the player designer/caller, the online/TEs lack of blocking in the run game a WR that would not block a stiff wind and backs that while not horrible are not exactly going to make space on their own quite yet. It’s all about percentages folks Tom Brady is great cause time and time again he has the defense guessing. In fact one of the reasons he beat Peyton Manning so many times is because one was predictable and the other was not, one had a constant running game, defense and kicking game and the other didn’t, that made the difference. Both great players but one had help and was not predictable and the other was very predictable due to many factors. This is not rocket science but you do have to remove your bias to actually see it.

  13. Buc4life Says:

    Evan’s is doubled with a safety over top in the red zones. Godwin and Humpries were our 3rd and 4th options behind Evan’s, Howard and Brate, which make more sense with their target amounts since they are being covered by lesser defenders.

  14. Bird Says:

    8 weeks boys and girls until Game 1 against 49ers

    Can’t wait for season.
    It’s time for the Bucs to be relevant again
    Been way to long in the NFL outhouse

  15. BucsBandit Says:

    LOL @ Ole NDOG making more excuses for Winston.


    In the red zone you can run a formation that spreads Mike Evans wide away from safety help and have one-on-one with the corner. YOU NEW TO FOOTBALL?

    if Winston had better accuracy/touch they could easily run that jump ball to Evans in the corner all the time. The reality is, he’s inaccurate with that type of pass. They probably ran it many times in practice and Winston just isn’t consistent enough.

    There’s ZERO BiAS in people recognizing that Winston’s accuracy is questionable.

  16. Todd Says:


    “Red Zone package: Evans. Howard, Brate, Godwin (as RB), (Perriman or Watkins in slot).”

    I just got some wood after reading that. Sorry…happens!

  17. BucsBandit Says:


    After 4 seasons, it’s apparent that Jameis Winston lacks an accurate arching ball.

    He can often throw hard passes on a straight line (sometimes accurate, sometimes not) but he has trouble with putting an arch on the ball and being accurate with it, which is why he struggles with the deep pass that a WR is supposed to run under.

    How many times have you see Winston float an arching pass to a RB on a wheel route past a LB under the sideline? Rarely. That’s a common NFL route yet Winston obviously lacks that touch/arch/accuracy to be consistent with it.

    Anyone that can’t admit that Winston has accuracy/throw type issues is lying to themselves.

  18. Cobraboy Says:

    Why does the Humphries stat surprise anyone?

    With Evans doubled and Godwin on tight single coverage, it is perfectly reasonable to throw to Humphries or Brate.

  19. Ndog Says:

    BucsBandit you must not actually watch our games cause pretty much whenever that fade ball is thrown to Evans by Jameis it is an easy TD. So I am not sure what you are talking about but then again no one does most of the time.

  20. Clw JB Says:

    if you can’t run it in from the 5 or less…you have a losing record – the corner fade and seam routes are most effective from about the 10-20 yd line – the stats back it up

  21. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Speaking of passes that appear high, These passes often are accompanied by
    nasty shots like Evans absorbed

  22. Ndog Says:

    Bucs Bandit WRONG AGAIN he throws a perfect deep ball accept to one malcontent player who is no longer here and please name the running back on this roster since Jameis had been here that can actually run the route you are describing a catch it? Charles Simms is the closest and Jameis in fact hit him several times on routes just like that. Dude you just make stuff up as there are countess examples of Jameis throwing a perfectly lofted ball. Why do I even waste my time on you?

  23. Magadude Says:

    Evans is Winston’s VJax that Freeman had. Freeman’s problems would have started much earlier had VJax not been brought on to help #5. Were Winston able to hit guys like Evans in stride more often some of the Red Zone series wouldn’t even be needed. The “Weapons for Winston” campaign was exciting because of bringing in guys like Evans and (many thought at the time) DJax. Godwin was a hidden gem in the draft. It’s pretty clear to me had they not had that much foresight, Winston would be the unchallenged all time pick master, running over Eli to take that stat. Hump often came back for the ball, which made up for lack of size and reach. He’s gone. How will Perriman connect with Winston? Hopefully he will try harder than DJax but if the QB can’t hit the broad side of a barn…

  24. Magadude Says:

    Ndog says “Bucs Bandit WRONG AGAIN he throws a perfect deep ball accept to one malcontent player who is no longer here.”

    Yeah, I guess Mike Evans just likes acrobatic diving catches, especially when he’s wide open. I mean, they look cool, and they are so much more effective than getting YAC.

  25. Ndog Says:

    So a QB on pace to be top 10 all-time in QB stats can’t hit the broad side of a barn, ok bro you are officially the leader of clueless crusade. Congrats there will be no one more clueless than you. Joe please ban this fool!!!?!?!

  26. Magadude Says:

    Ndog, of course, if the rules change to where the tunnel on the way to the locker room is considered “in bounds,” you man will be deadly on those fades.

  27. BucsBandit Says:

    NDOG – your attempt at revisionist history doesn’t change reality.

    Winston did not only struggle throwing deep passes to Jackson, he has struggled with the deep ball his entire career. DO YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THE GAMES?

    Enough with the Winston stats. We all know 80% of his yardage has come after he already threw INTs, fumbled, or our Defense gave up early scores and Winston is racking up yards against prevent and soft cover defenses.

    If Winston’s stats were so great he’d be consistently putting up tons of points during the entire game. Our bad Defense has nothing to do with his lack of scoring.

  28. Magadude Says:

    I personally never thought Glennon, aka bu some as “Capt Checkdown” was the franchise QB, but when looking just at his completion rate, the naive may think he was a deadly accurate passer. So it’s quite possible that when Glennon left, some diehard fans were left in such despair…so traumatized, like a teen boy who lost his first girlfiend…that the next guy up was going to be branded as “Mr. Accurate” no matter what.

    On pace for the Top 10 what? LOL. How about winning some games and stopping the picks first. Then we can talk. You have to fly to the moon before you can pretend Mars is realistic. Sure, you could forget all that, but then it ends up like a Jameis pass to Djax…a one way missile headed further out into space never to be found.

  29. Magadude Says:

    I think an easy solution to Winston’s long ball is drafting a receiver that can run a 2.9 40.

  30. Jean Lafitte Says:

    Our bad Defense has nothing to do with his lack of scoring.

    This is exactly right. How can you nearly throw for 400 yards a game and still only average 23 points?

    Too many down and outs and turnovers. We’ve got to learn to make every series count. Go for the jugular. Our offense can be our defenses worst enemy when we give the other team way too many opportunities. How do you protect a weak defense? With a good scoring offense.

  31. Ndog Says:

    The fact that either one you believe that “Our bad Defense has nothing to do with his lack of scoring.”, Just shows how little you understand the game of football. My goodness you make us all look bad, just please stop posting before you further expose your complete lack of understanding.

  32. tickrdr Says:

    @Bob in Valrico:
    Nice replay of one of he ALL-TIME best catches.
    Perfectly thrown ball leading Mike AWAY from the coverage, right Ndog?
    If I were Hump or Brate, I would wear a steel plate on my BACK to help absorb those shots in the back on all of those comeback and curl routes.


  33. Ndog Says:

    Since you say he can’t throw a fade, a deep ball or hit guys in stride how did all of these happen?

  34. tickrdr Says:

    Here is what affects scoring.


    The Bucs as a team turned the ball over to the opposing team 19% of the time.

    That means ONE OF EVERY FIVE drives in the game!

    So, unless the turnover resulted in the other team taking over inside their own 25 yard line, then the Bucs’ DEFENSE would have been BETTER OFF, if the offense had simply PUNTED on the FIRST play of the drive.

    ONE of every FIVE drives.

    Of course, if the turnover occurred INSIDE the opponents’ 25 yard line, that may also affect our offensive scoring as well.(loss of a scoring chance)

    Of course, the Bucs defense NEVER (sarcasm) had to deal with a short field following a turnover. I can think of at least TWO ultimate short fields, as both JW# and Fitz threw pick6’s last year.


  35. BigMacAttack Says:

    Simple answer: Dirk Koetter is an idiot.

  36. BigMacAttack Says:

    ATL will have the same problem this year. Julio will be targeted twice and not have any red zone TD catches.

  37. tickrdr Says:

    Here is my “free throw” analogy to the above.

    Only a few shooters in the NBA have a free throw percentage > 90%.
    Suppose you only shoot 80%, or maybe just 70%.
    How many free throw shooting contests, best out of ten shots, would you win?

    But now suppose the 90% shooter ONLY GOT TO SHOOT EIGHT TIMES, but you still had TEN TRIES.

    And now on top of that, on one or two of your shots, you got to shoot from 10 feet rather than fifteen (short field analogy), and maybe occasionally you even got to shoot a layup (pick6 analogy).


  38. Ndog Says:

    Boy Tom Brady is wildly inaccurate

    See I can play that game to everyone has some inaccurate passes. Or do you actually think Brady sucks tickrdr.

    Nevermind we all know you are clueless so the answer is yes you think he sucks.

  39. Oneilbucs Says:

    Ndog these people knows nothing about football. Tom Brady dink and dunk up the field and then they run the ball. When a team know that you can’t run the ball you are easy to stop. Goff has Tod Gurley that’s why Goff does well. Mahomes had hunt defenses had to watch the running game witch helps him play good. That’s why the eagles signed a running back free agent from the bears and they still drafted a running back this year. So my question is how come the national media and some of you on this site say they are good quarterbacks and they have good running backs and Jamies has to win regardless of how bad his running backs are and defense and still when we lose it’s his fault????? Please answer the question. Lol lol lol …..

  40. Figures Says:


    Stfu with your bullsh it.
    You are so fuc$ing stupid.
    You come on here acting like you’re sooooo much smarter than everyone.

    Just stfu and go lick the ball sack on your Winston poster.

    Nothing worse than someone thinking they’re so smart when really they’re a fuc$ing dumbas s.

    The fact that you believe Winston doesn’t have accuracy issues completely makes everything you say irrelevant. And proves you’re nothing more than a dumbas s FSU fan boy.

  41. Ndog Says:

    No Figures I don’t think I’m smarter than everyone just people who make up stuff and others who actually say nothing like yourself. Yes I KNOW I am smarter than you when it comes to football but unfortunately for me that’s not saying all that much.

  42. Ndog Says:

    Jameis was within 1% point or higher in comp% in 2018 than the below QBs in one of, if not the most, aggressive downfield passing games in the league with no running game and constantly in obvious passing situations. But yet you all day he’s inaccurate. See I look at proof (numbers and the videos above for example) not what I want to believe like you folks

    Aaron Rodgers
    Baker Mayfield
    Tom Brady
    Russell Wilson
    Jared Goff
    Alex Smith (noted check down Charlie)
    Andy Dalton

  43. Figures Says:

    Well what your dumbas s doesn’t take into account is how many times do receivers have to reach behind themselves, jump as high as they possibly can, layout for it? Very often and in every single game.

    It’s not just all about the whether they catch it or not or the percentage number.

    It’s rare that Winston throws a ball out front or leads the receiver for yac.

    But all your stupid as s does is look at numbers.

    You think you’re smarter but you’re not. Literally every analyst or anyone without Winston’s nuts in their mouth like you say he needs to improve with his accuracy.

    Yet you believe you’re the only one that’s right and literally everyone else is wrong.

  44. tickrdr Says:


    Nice replay that clearly shows Brady throwing the ball 10 yards beyond where the receiver (#11, Julian Edelman, I believe) had already STOPPED for a curl or comeback at the 40 yard line. Nice find, though. Congrats!

    Brady did have 11 of those INT thingies (1.9%) in 16 games, but also had 29 of those TD thingies (5.1%)

    Personally, I would give props to Jameis if:
    1) His TD/INT ratio is greater than 2 to 1.
    2) His TD percentage is 5.0% or greater.
    3) His TD %age minus his INT %age is greater than 3.
    Those are the stats of a playoff QB.


  45. stpetebucsfan Says:

    I really like NDOG and admire his passion. I’m neither in total agreement or disagreement.

    I’m not too proud to admit I’m torn by both sides of the JW debate. He clearly has talent but also some issues.

    I still believe…or perhaps simply want to believe that JW just took a long time to grow up and that last year’s disaster and the humiliating AZ deal and suspension and the humiliation of losing his job to Ryan Freaking Fitzpatrick have aged him quickly.

    He’s now 25 going on 30! I still believe JW can get it done…but I’m with those who want to say it’s this year or get it done somewhere else.

  46. Ndog Says:

    Lamar Jackson was a playoff QB, Marcus Mariotta was a playoff QB, Blake Bottles was a playoff QB. They all suck just like your football evaluation and knowledge.

  47. tickrdr Says:

    Those are only MY criteria. I am certainly not suggesting you, or anyone else, accept them as valid. I’m not sure anyone thinks those QBs you mentioned are very good, even though they may have played in a playoff game once.


  48. Transplant Says:

    Hi I just moved into the area and never had a football team to root for before. I was hoping to join the Bucs clan but after reading how you fans spew hated and constantly make fun of each other I think I’ll check out the Dolphins. Good luck to your fanbase. I wanted to try and help your poor attendance but it’s not worth it.

    Get a life and get over yourselves Bucs fans.

  49. Magadude Says:

    Well said StPete. And if fans were as blind loyal and unconditoinally supportive about Winston as Ndog is, the RayJay would be packed every game. Of course, that’s assuming they could even find the stadium.

  50. Buc4evr Says:

    Develop a run game inside the five and it takes pressure off of the receivers. Wonder how many times the Bucs were stopped inside the five last year on the ground?

  51. Figures Says:

    Ndog is just too stupid to even acknowledge.

    Those nuts are so far down his throat he can’t think straight.

  52. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    ben Says:
    July 14th, 2019 at 10:34 am
    “Winston’s inaccuracy played apart in the failure in the red zone ..Maybe this year ? ”

    Didn’t Winston post his highest completion percentage last year?

  53. Magadude Says:

    Dang Figures. Do you talk like that? Do you eat with that mouth? You guys crack me up. Too funny.

  54. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Figures Says:
    “..doesn’t take into account is how many times do receivers have to reach behind themselves, jump as high as they possibly can, layout for it?”

    Koetter taught Winston that it was better to overthrow than underthrow. A completion is a completion.

  55. Magadude Says:

    Ndog Says:
    July 14th, 2019 at 1:47 pm
    Since you say he can’t throw a fade, a deep ball or hit guys in stride how did all of these happen?
    Ndog…be real here. I’d bet Tom Jones could make those throws. Seriously.

  56. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Transplant ,thanks for stopping by, and passing judgement. May your transplant be
    successful elsewhere if thats your wish.

  57. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Bonzai, C,mon now
    Which of these has better chance of a completion :
    1 An accurrate throw
    2 an underthrow
    3 an overthrow

  58. Oneilbucs Says:

    Well when Jamies leave then that means we will go to the playoffs and super bowl as soon as Jamies is gone lol lol lol lol lol . We will draft a rookie quarterback then we will have a number one defense and have the best running game in the league as soon as Jamies leave. Lol lol lol yall none football knowing national media believers, yall fantasy football people, and yall black quarterbacks haters in Tampa are a joke lol lol lol !!!!!!

  59. stpetebucsfan Says:


    Good luck on your search and thank your lucky stars you didn’t end up in Philly or New York…their fans brutality makes us all look like a bunch of snowflakes. There fans think we are sissies for going so soft on our players.

    History has a lot to do with it. Not only the decades of futility with one small period and an SB team. Recent history has been brutal and very divisive.

    We get the #1 pick of the draft and was it great news for the franchise and fan base? Not really. Immediately a huge debate arises over JW or MM. Over what many here thought was the best talent instead of the classiest person. JW brought a ton of baggage into the league and then to get busted hanging out with a convicted rapist and another guy with bad character at 3AM so freaking drunk that he claims he blacked out and so couldn’t’ truly defend himself because he literally didn’t know what he was doing or have any memory over it. And this was after his rookie season…right after the Bucs went out on a limb and gave him a chance and this is how he repaid them! He clearly had issues.

    I’m not a choir boy but after the FSU hijinks and the huge draft debate this type mistake played right into folks hands.

    JW is an enigma. Great kid on one hand…with a dark side on the other…which he hopefully is past and in fairness to JW for some context he has either stopped drinking or cut down on it and now has a family which has also settled him.

    So our fanbase still hasn’t cleansed it’s palate of all of that…YET. But it’s now a year later and when JW plays well the debate will get more grounded in football instead of personalities.

    If you’re looking to find a team with fans who all agree…really?
    I’d probably forget Miami….would have said Jax but after their playoffs and then last year’s horror show I suspect they too have some peoed fans.

    So Transplant here is my only tip. Hang on and simply learn to use your scroll wheel. Just pass by the posts full of ad hominem and personal insults and hang around.

    Just my opinion and like you I sometimes grow weary of the loser mentality but there are just as many and IMHO far more great posters here. I learn lots here about football and sometimes about life because of our diversity. You should probably give it until at least the pre season games get underway and master that scroll wheel.

  60. Ndog Says:

    Yep Oneilbucs you’re right in fact what are we waiting for we should just cut him now so we can win this year. Cutting him today is the best thing franchise can do. I mean the defense will tackle better, the oline will hold their blocks longer, the backs will run harder and have better vision and the kickers will make every kick over 45 yards. I mean we will dominate the league and probably win the Superbowl this year! Do it now do not delay one more second as every second he is on this team we get a little worse.

  61. Ndog Says:

    Cut him now, cut him now, cut him now! There is one problem on this team just solve it and CUT HIM NOW!!!!!

  62. Bob in Valrico Says:

    St pete,
    As one of the senior ambassadors on this site , I want to reach out and say thanks. I wish this site had a moderator at times. That said , no reason we shouldn’t be able to self moderate better than we do.

    Some observations :
    People are not clueless, stupid or otherwise if they don’t agree with you.
    Leave the emotions out of the debate, they add nothing and probably will keep you from clearly presenting your point.

  63. tickrdr Says:

    @Bob and SPBF:

    TWO voices of reason! Hat Tip to you both!


  64. Ndog Says:

    Bob apparently you haven’t read many of the baseless comments on here daily.

  65. Jameis Almighty! Says:

    Bumphries will not be missed. He’s small and slow. Glad he got his money from someone else than the Bucs.

  66. Oneilbucs Says:

    Yep and that’s why the Gaints rather Lose with sorry Elie then cut him and get some one better.

  67. Bob in Valrico Says:

    N dog
    i am as addicted to this site as the next person. But as St Pete suggested in an earlier post, the scroll wheel is your friend. No reason to get so emotionally invested . The season hasn’t started, Jameis is going to be the starter. No post on this site is gonna change that.

  68. Bob in Valrico Says:

    And the same too you , Good Sir!

  69. Magadude Says:

    @Bob in Valrico, a little 2 cents offered here. I don’t disagree with your self-moderation thought at all. I think folks should only write here to another poster what they’d do in a face-to-face meeting. Good litmus test. I’m not a fan of moderators for places like this, because then it becomes about the moderator, and their own biases. A slippery slope I think without ever addressing the actual problems. Personally, here, I get a chuckle on being called clueless, idiot, stuff like that but I hold out hope such people who do that don’t or wouldn’t say it for real…as it would indicate the degradation of honest and open communication in our way of life that made this country so great. That is, it’s fine to attack the message as stupid, crazy, ludicrous, etc, just not the person as you are staying. Still, I don’t think it’s too serious unless folks make genuine racist statements (which I don’t see here) or outright threats, but as is more common, especially in what I see in business mediation sessions today (as part of my own business), is one party pulls the race card without merit. That makes all have to stop and now address that issue. Soemtimes it sends things to an impass…the worst thing. The problem with that is the real racial issues don’t get addressed and, throwing that out there obscures calling out the real racism problems that remain in our world. The other thing just as bad, that is frankly just plan un-American, is trying to isolate or remove the person from discussions where the whole purpose is to discuss the issues. Or gaslighting another poster by talking about their kids, wife, relationships, other unrelated items, etc. I see things boil up with “who invited you anyway?” (Well, YOU did) and all the stuff starts flying. I blame a lot of this tech and social media where instead of talking, one can delete, block, turn off, etc anything they don’t like….or agree with, and there is no follow-up and more importantly not direct dialog, like actual “talk.” 99% of the time it’s an email or text and total avoidance to talk at all after an insult carries over into dialog when people “must” engage–one party tries to send the others away Russia style, isolate and destroy them, etc. It gets really bad if now the lawyers have to step in and arbitrate because of impass. It gets expensive, and by then too many hard feelings are there. So back to your point on really some civilty is much better than moderation, as it only gets worse from there.

  70. Figures Says:

    I don’t mind attacking dumbas s NDOG.

    I got into it with that mother fucccr last year for saying people were racist because they were criticizing his lover boy. That’s how I remember him when I came back to this site. He will deny it but I remember exactly where I was that day when I called his bit ch as s out on it. Don’t agree with him then you’re a racist or bigot.

    I’d pop him right in that mouth if he said to my face in public. Maybe he would cough up those balls he’s choking on. I’ve watched every single Bucs game since 1987. If I were a racist I wouldn’t watch a sport dominated by people that are a different skin tone than me. I don’t give a fck what color someone is.

    He’s a dumbas s.

  71. Figures Says:

    My comments are in moderation now. I bet NDOG went and cried like a little baby. Little tattle tale wimp.

  72. stpetebucsfan Says:

    Thanks tickdr and Bob and back atcha.

  73. D1 Says:


    Dallas game. Winston to evans. You put up that play.

    Lol….that’s the perfect play to illustrate how a fan sees a great ball that drops perfectly into Evans hands.

    A coach or player points to that play and knows winston threw the ball inaccurately which prevented Evans from making a touch down vs. a big gain.
    The ball is supposed to be throw on the red line. Know what that is….no.
    Which is why you see a perfect ball not the reality.

    Winston is the least accurate deep passer in the league, last year. That’s facts. Is he capable of throwing an accurate deep ball…..yes He is. Doesn’t mean he has done it with consistency.

    Another thing, there’s tons of plays that film shows a completed pass. Problem is with more than a few, the ball is on the wrong side of the player.
    Unfortunately this limited yac. That and the long time winston takes to deliver the ball as many times as not…you even point to these crappie plays in the video list, Winston hits a reciever who is standing still, after completing his route. You think it’s the play design? ………apparently so.
    But it’s not. Which means that those plays , with some exceptions due to scrambling, are the perfect example of what winston needs to improve on to take his game to the next level.

    Is he capable, his physical tools say that he is. His bad habits and the length of time He has had them means that it’s not automatically going to be an easy or short fix. My opinion, the team should hide those faults until he works thru it. But this is the point the haters point to as a value problem. A former 1st pick in the draft shouldn’t have to be protected from these types of mistakes.
    He wasnt a pick that was drafted because he had faults in his game. Just the opposite. And yes he had the same issues at Florida state.

    Positive is he is great in certain areas of his game. He’s young. And he will be under the ba microscope which has already identified an area I pointed to as an issue. His preperation is inconsistent. . He will be shown a more detailed and consistent way to prepare. This should go a long way.

  74. Magadude Says:

    @D1….to your last para…Yes, it can, if he listens, and applies it to his decision making going forward.

  75. BucsBandit Says:

    NDOG loves to post highlights as proof that Winston’s consistent accuracy is actually like that. DUDE… those are a few throws. They don’t make up for his accuracy issues. Now show us all the videos where he MiSSED those deep balls. Go ahead, we’ll wait.

    ONEILBUCS loves to keep playing the race card to defend Winston. He thinks those that don’t like Winston and want him off the team is because he’s black. DUDE.. we’ll gladly trade for Winston for Wilson or Mahomes. His skin color has nothing to do with the criticism. He sucks because… well, he sucks.

  76. Figures Says:

    I would love to see if NDOG and the others would call me a racist to my face.

    I’d pop him right in that mouth of his. He accused me of being racist last year because I criticized his loverboy instead of worshipping at his feet.

    I’m 39 6ft 3. 247 pounds. I bet my house NDOG WOULDNT CALL ME A RACIST TO MY FACE. he’s a keyboard warrior.

  77. Oneilbucs Says:

    I think a lot of yall people in Tampa are racist just like in Texas. You are here the talk out here about Watson . It’s people that said black quarterbacks can’t win . The sam way Moon got treated is the same way Jamies get treated in Tampa. This is the south and a lot of white people in the south is still mad about the civil war !!!!

  78. Oneilbucs Says:

    Bucsbandit I look at the hold team. Yall try to blame Jamies for this piss poor team. Ain’t no team is 1 quarterback away from wining the super bowl. I’m 40 years old and I do know that a lot of white people rather have a white quarterback. I’m not saying that’s how you feel but you can’t tell me that it’s not true. All I have is 1 question? Why do Wentz need a running game and defense to win , why do Andrew Luck gets the same kind of passes as Wentz. Why do Philip Rivers don’t have to even play in a super bowl and no one in the national media never say it’s time to move on from him but Jamies who is on a trash team and when the team lose it’s his fault??? But when the chargers lose or the Colts it’s not the quarterback fault but the team is bad???

  79. SenileSenior Says:

    Transplant Says:
    July 14th, 2019 at 3:49 pm

    The JoeBucFan name is somewhat misleading for this site. There is a subtle negative thread that runs through the many of the articles. A large percent of those who post here give a much more pronounced anti-Buccaneer clamor. It is very weird. No accounting for it!

    I’ve not seen the like for fans in other parts of the country. I am not claiming however, to have been everywhere and know it all like the “been there, done that” crowd. (I have not lived in Cleveland or Buffalo for example.)

    When you hear the Joes talk live on Ira’s podcast you get an entirely different feel. The discussion and debates are informative, fun and lively. Enjoyable fan listening.

    Bobby Fenton, Derrick Brooks and the Toddcast also help round out what this site has to offer.

    There are a whole lot of real fans all over the Bay. Don’t let one article or even one outlet fool you.
    Go Bucs!!!

  80. BucsBandit Says:

    Oneilbucs – it’s a huge ‘stretch’ to imply that many white Bucs fans in Tampa (or anywhere in the south) are racist. Sure, there are always a few ignorant people everywhere. But here’s a NEWSFLASH for you…

    The vast majority of players in the NFL and on the Bucs team.. ARE BLACK. It doesn’t make sense that many white fans LOVE so many of the Bucs black players, yet just because they don’t like Winston they’re suddenly racists.

    I’m a white guy. I can’t stand Winston. I liked him when we drafted him and really hoped he’d be the great player they drafted him to be… but he’s been a major disappointment. He has accuracy issues and decision making issues. He’s a turnover machine. He holds the ball too long.

    NONE of that criticism is because he’s black. NONE of it. Hell, I was a HUGE Doug Williams fan and to this day I still hold a grudge (like many Bucs fans) that Culverhouse treated him so badly and let him leave for the Redskins. But I was so happy for Williams when he won the Super Bowl in 1988. He was the first black QB to play in the Super Bowl, and he scored 4 of their 5 TDs on their way to winning the Super Bowl.

    I think so much of your ‘racist’ views about Winston is ABOUT YOU. You’re obviously black and for whatever reason you think those that criticize Winston are only doing so because they don’t want a black QB to succeed. Again, while I don’t deny there are ‘some’ ignorant racist rednecks out there, I would say 95% of those criticizing Winston are doing so without his skin color having anything to do with it.

    Just my two cents.