The Arians-Monken Clash & Jameis Winston’s Bad Mechanics

February 14th, 2019

Back in November, when howls about shoddy mechanics from the arms and feet of America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, were a popular topic, then-Bucs offensive coordinator Todd Monken said he wasn’t seeing it.

You can flash back to Monken’s words here.

Was Monken being honest?

Hours prior to Monken’s take came former Bucs and Patriots QB Jeff Carlson explaining Jameis’ feet are all screwed up and the Monken-Dirk Koetter offense was a bad fit for him. Carlson has been privately coaching QBs since leaving the NFL. And Carlson wasn’t the only expert saying this.

And now comes new head coach Bucco Bruce Arians basically telling TampaBay.com that Carlson is on the money.

“I’ve studied a bunch of [Jameis’ throws],’’ Arians said. “[QB Coach] Clyde [Christiansen] has watched every throw he’s made since his rookie year and Byron [Leftwich], too. And it’s like you’re trying to look safeties off too long and your feet are crossed. So much of it is mechanical.’’

So here are the money questions: Is Arians dealing with a franchise QB who isn’t very coachable? Or is Jameis “coachable” but just not getting it? Or was Jameis being poorly coached by a combination of his private QB coach, Koetter, Monken and ex-Bucs QB coach Mike Bajakian? Or, was Jameis well coached but too stuck in bad habits to eliminate them completely?

Those answers won’t be coming for a while.

Obviously, Jameis has had plenty of strong games and does a lot of things very well. But winning from the quarterback position is about consistency, and Jameis has been horrible in that key area.

As for Arians calling out Jameis’ bad mechanics publicly, Joe is certain that’s a calculated plan to get in Jameis’ head. It’s also a convenient way for Arians to say Jameis was broken when Arians got here.

Man, if Koetter said that about Jameis’ mechanics, a thousand Jameis apologists would have lined up to say Koetter threw Jameis under the bus. Those types also would explain why Koetter didn’t have Jameis’ back, therefore Jameis can’t succeed.

Joe just hopes the bad mechanics Arians is seeing become simple fixes.

48 Responses to “The Arians-Monken Clash & Jameis Winston’s Bad Mechanics”

  1. Bird Says:

    Throw in jimbo fisher , his high school coach and peewee football coach as well …

  2. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    If Arians is right…..we will see an improved Jameis Winston…..and if Arians is not right we need to see and improved Winston.

    BUT…….Give the kid a running game and the team a defense it deserves before completely holding JW responsible for the losing.

  3. Wombat Says:

    If Jameis can’t work out that he needs to listen to coaches, well, he is uncoachable. Having said that, I don’t think he has had coaching like he is going to be barraged with this spring. Bajakian? C,mon man!!!!!
    The time is now!!!!

  4. JustaBucsFan Says:

    Sometimes i kinda wish Joe would judge Winston with the same harsh light he judges others on this team (Kwon Alexander comes to mind).

  5. AKickInTheBucNuts Says:

    WHAT?!!

    Last year when I laughed at JW pushing trucks around for his “training” I caught a lot of flak here.

    “Oh, Jameis is working so hard” Blah, blah, blah.

    My point was…how about working hard on the crap that really matters, like your foot work and mechanics – as BA has now pointed out.

  6. Defense Rules Says:

    @Coach Arians … “And it’s like you’re trying to look safeties off too long and your feet are crossed. So much of it is mechanical.’’ Would really be interesting to find out from BA how much of Jameis’ issues are mechanical & how much is between-the-ears. “Feet crossed”? I can buy into mechanical on that one. But BA’s comment that Jameis is “trying to look safeties off too long” DOESN’T sound to me like it’s mechanical.

    In the end it won’t matter though. This staff will either ‘fix Jameis’ and he’ll get a nice contract OR we’ll be looking for a new QB next year. And there are several good ones coming up in 2020. A win-win situation? Only in Bucsville.

  7. Bruce Blahak Says:

    No question about the bad mechanics but I don’t know how many safeties he’s “looked off” …he’s staring at his first option most of the time, leading to picks…Leftwich had a notoriously long windup, like WinSTUNNED, and he’s going to be the one to fix that?

  8. hfxbuc Says:

    This question applies to so many players on this roster? Is it the player or the coaching… with Arians and his staff we won’t have that question this year.

  9. Bobby M. Says:

    I can say this with full confidence…..Jameis was definitely coached to dump the ball off to the RB and he simply doesn’t do it. Quiz Rodgers had 130+ catches in 3 yrs as a back up RB in Atlanta in Koetters system. Quiz was in on nearly every third down this past year and played as a starter in previous yrs filling in at times. He had maybe 40 catches in 3 yrs here. That’s your QB….for whatever reason he insist on pushing the ball down field even when its simply not there.

  10. AlteredEgo Says:

    Accuracy begins with footwork….step and throw….Pop Warner…Little League coaching….something he has been coached to do at every level….but here we are. In the Play Off’s one of the talking heads mentioned how much Drew Brees works on precise footwork and mechanics on EVERY throw in practice EVERY throw…muscle memory when the shi** hits the fan game time….Jameis is as Jameis does…good luck Arians and Leftwhich …the photo in the header of this story is a perfect example….depressing

  11. diggler Says:

    BA is building the “I had to bench him” case against JW. Sanity will soon return!

  12. 813bucboi Says:

    hfxbuc

    i agree….

    many of the players on the roster have been coaches poorly…..winston is just a victim of not being developed by a coaching staff that was in over their heads….

    with experienced and competent coaches running the show, we’ll see an improvement from a number of players on both sides of the ball…..

    #REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!

  13. Grt1 Says:

    Bobby it’s hard for a competitive person to dump off to the RB when your team is down by 20 in the first half. Listen to all the real experts when they talk about a QB playing hero ball. We’re not a complete team by a long shot. IMO Jameis had one horrible game against Cincinnati, but after that played competitively after his benching. It’s a team sport fellas it’s not a QB sport, look at Aaron Rodgers most talented QB probably in history but yet only has 1 ring.

  14. tickrdr Says:

    @Defense Rules, Bruce Blahak, and Bobby M.:

    Nice posts! +1+1+1

    tickrdr

  15. Paul keyes Says:

    Steve,

    I wish someone from the Bucs organization would request that Jameis stops working with that private trainer who has done him no good. Any moron with a brain can see he has terrible mechanics, I can tell as soon as he releases the ball that it’s going to be way off of an interception. How refreshing is it that we finally have a coach that keeps its real. If he can’t fix Jameis then no one can in my opinion. I think all of Dirks assistants were over there heads and not good teachers with exception of Monken, Duffner, and Our Dline coach.

  16. miken Says:

    I think Jameis’s bad mechanics are a product of our bad Defense, just like his turnovers.

  17. Loyaltotheend Says:

    I don’t think he’s coachable or if he is when he panics he falls into bad habits

    We always hear him say

    “I gotta protect the ball better”
    “I can’t do that”

    But not much changes

    Coaches can coach but the players need to apply what they are being taught

  18. Not there yet Says:

    Hey joes I believe this conversation did come up in a question asked to the quarterbacks coach by you and bajakian said something to the effect of they preferred not to screw with the mechanics of Winston sort of thinking they would make it worse. So we already know the Koetter staff didn’t coach quarterback mechanics and why they wasted all that time on Ryan Griffin because you would have to actively try to coach up any Rookie quarterback you drafted. What a crap show Dirk Koetter era was. Lovie, Schiano and Raheem all have the excuse of no talent compared to dirk and Winston may not be what everyone likes but he is better than any quarterback we’ve had since brad Johnson

  19. Nick2 Says:

    If this is true then Koetter, Monken and Bajakian all need to be fired from their prospective jobs.

  20. Nick2 Says:

    Oh and good luck Baker Mayfield I hope your mechanics or sound or they never will be.

  21. [email protected] Roof Cleaning Tampa Says:

    Carson Palmer played for USC and Pete Carroll, so he knows about good coaches.
    He is very high on the Bucs, now that Coach Arians is here.
    I think Tampa is gonna see a totally different team next year.

  22. BucNole Says:

    This combined with JW saying he may have tuned out coaches is a huge red flag. . . I hope Im wrong and have just misread these signs

  23. Bird Says:

    I’m surprised Tmax has not blamed his bad mechanics on Gerald McCoy aka his favorite word on this post to use :

    Cancer93

  24. Jolly Bucs Fan Says:

    @AkickintheBucNuts

    Thats a good call out. Good on jameis for wanting to improve his athletic shape.

    But look at TB12. He does not really have the “typical” body of an athlete. He is training the things that will make him better at his position.

    If someone can focus Jameis’ insane work ethic to the right areas that he can really improve. Prioritize that time. Mobility in the pocket is great, but focus on mechanics, footwork, accuracy, and finally if you have time, focus on strength

  25. BringBucsBack Says:

    Physical “mechanics” are closely tied to the cerebellum; what is upstairs, between the ears!

  26. MHBuc1 Says:

    50,000 coaches have watched Jameis film- Check
    20-30 coaches have coached Jameis Winston on mechanics- Check
    10 coaches were vomiting at night watching Jameis same mistakes- Check

    Koetter getting hired 2 minutes after firing- PRICELESS.

    But yeah, it’s still the coaches, keep blaming the coaches.

  27. Dubcity06 Says:

    Jameis defenders always in full effect. Dont hold the man accountable for anything. If you need a great coach, and a great defense, and a great running game, and great weapons, and blocking…. then its not you… its everyone else.

  28. BucAllNigh Says:

    @MHBuc1

    Atlanta (who “struggled mightily” in the RedZone) hiring Koetter who “struggles Mightily” in the RedZone – PRICELESS.

    *See 500+ yards & 3pts vs. Redskins (The I’m taking Play-calling Back game)

  29. BucAllNight Says:

    @Dubcity

    So why Proclaim Jared Goff the second coming when he gets “All of the Above” then goes from 8-8, to playoffs, to superbowl???

    But yeah it does’nt matter…. Carry On…smh

  30. BucAllNight Says:

    @MHBuc1

    Watching Atlanta(who “struggled mightily” in the redzone) hire Koetter who “struggles mightily” in the redzone – PRICELESS.

    *see 500+yds & only 3 POINTS vs Redskins
    (the I’m taking play-calling back game)

    You guys are hilarious!!

  31. SenileSenior Says:

    As a rookie Winston appeared to have the necessary talent, smarts and intangibles to succeed in the NFL. Four years later after seeing the lack of progress I can only conclude that coaching was the real problem.

    Only one voice should be in Winston’s ear, that of Clyde Christensen. For the most part Arians and Leftwich should channel all training though Christensen. His personal offseason program should also be under the same overall guidance.

  32. ATLBucs Says:

    ““I don’t think so,” Monken responded when Joe asked if something happened to Jameis during his suspension or if his mechanics are messed up. “That’s hard to say. You would have to ask him. I don’t see that. I don’t see those things in practice where you are anticipating what we’ve seen otherwise we wouldn’t have put so much on him, offensively.” Monken.

    The answer is right here, Joe. If Monken thinks there is nothing wrong with Jameis” mechanics and “real” QB gurus say there is something wrong, isn’t that a dead giveaway as to why Jameis has not improved much since his arrival in Tampa? I’m crunk because I see great potential being realized, not only by Jameis but by the whole team.

  33. tickrdr Says:

    Grt1 Says:
    February 14th, 2019 at 8:52 am

    Bobby it’s hard for a competitive person to dump off to the RB when your team is down by 20 in the first half…………
    ———————————————————————————-

    As I look at the box scores from 2018, the Bucs were down big in the first half of only a few games. And most of those were Ryan Fitzpatrick starts:
    vs. Pittsburgh
    vs. Chicago
    vs. Carolina (1st game)
    and yes vs. Cinncinnati, however Jameis threw INTs to end two of the first three Buc drives that game.
    Maybe the Fitz fans should complain about the lack of support from the defense?

    tickrdr

  34. oar Says:

    Relationships are like farting. If you push to hard, things could get messy real quick.

  35. Couch Fan Says:

    Take a look at how poorly the rest of the team around him did and its very logical to think that lack of coaching had a lot to do with it. Amazing what an unbias set of eyes can see.

  36. Jameis Almighty! Says:

    Jameis Winston has never crapped his pants on the field. That would be Adam Bumphries fumbling away the game in Buffalo in 2017 and all of the kickers soiling the field with their crappy performances. Take away all the players pooping the bed, and Jameis’ has an impressive win loss record. Side note, it would seem a likely that MeJax ran off the field early in the home win because he made a mess of his pants.

  37. Loyaltotheend Says:

    Jameis crapped his pants a lot as a Buc

    2018
    Bengals
    Saints
    Ravens

    2017
    Vikings
    @Saints

    2016
    Cardinals
    Broncos
    Raiders
    Cowboys

    2015 offseason when he hassled an Uber Driver
    Titans
    Panthers
    Texans
    Giants
    Bears

    Stop acting like he’s anything but a below average qb with teases of playing like a top 15 qb

  38. Pickgrin Says:

    Fix the OLine – fix the running game – fix the DEFENSE – fix the special teams

    THEN – MAYBE you could start thinking about how to improve Winston’s “mechanics”….

    Does anyone really think this team hasn’t been winning because of Winston? – or because of his “bad mechanics”??

    That line of thinking is a joke right?

  39. Nick2 Says:

    Loyaltotheend it seems you forget Winston only had one season with a better than average running game and he went 9-7 that year. Beyond that Koetter and Licht forgot running the ball mattered.

  40. T REX Says:

    Nothing but excuses.

  41. Nick2 Says:

    No running game an excuse? Lol you might have needed to watch the playoffs where running the ball was the key to victory for the Pats.

  42. Nick2 Says:

    Just so we are clear all the Jameis naysayers now need to side with Koetter and that “If i knew the problem I would fix it” was the best answer he could give. I am siding with Arians that Jameis is coachable with someone who believes in him is we we need and not with a “I wanted Mariotta” mentality. I believe in Bruce Arians 100 times more than whatever Dirk Koetter did and his 3 point 500 yard offense output was a great example. Time will tell…..

  43. oar Says:

    Bad mechanics?….Pep Boys?

  44. Loyaltotheend Says:

    @Nick2

    The 9-7 year the run game wasn’t good. His rookie year they had a great run game and won 6 games…

    If your qb needs a top 10 run game and d to win then he’s not a franchise qb

  45. Nole4JabooANDdBucs Says:

    If I am not mistaken Jameis entered the NFL under the past regime, whose responsibility was to prepare him to succeed. The same group who have blown threw good kickers, and running backs.

    So now years later let’s say Jameis is uncoachable…SMH…timw will tell!

  46. AlteredEgo Says:

    Yeah same group may have blown the 1st overall pick on a QB .

  47. Couch Fan Says:

    If your qb needs a top 10 run game and d to win then he’s not a franchise qb
    ——–

    Completely reaching to get your point across. Nobody is saying we need a top 10 anything. There are just a handful of QBs in history that can win games all by themselves. If that is what a franchise QB is to you, then we will probably never have one of those. Most QBs, even most of the best QBs need help.

  48. Bucsdelight Says:

    WAIT! Are you admitting Winston has bad mechanics?

    Fans have only been saying that he has bad mechanics while the fan boys have been defending him every chance they get. I’m glad you have seen the light.