Corner Frustration & Fixes On Display

January 14th, 2019

Bucs GM Jason Licht

When’s the last time the Saints scored 20 points or less at home with Drew Brees starting, like they did yesterday against Philadelphia?

It wasn’t this season.

And look at the pedigree of the Eagles’ starting cornerbacks.

Rookie Avonte Maddox was the 25th selections in the fourth round. He played college ball in Pittsburgh, where the Bucs personally scouted Jordan Whitehead, their earlier fourth-round pick of the 2018 draft.

Cre’von LeBlanc was another starting corner for Philadelphia yesterday. The 24-year-old was undrafted out of Florida Atlantic in 2016. This year, he was waived in September by the Bears (where he made 10 starts through 2016 and 2017) and then waived again by the Lions in November before becoming a key cog in the Eagles’ run.

(Don’t get Joe freakin’ started on Florida Atlantic scouting.)

Both guys played pretty well yesterday during the Eagles’ big-stage loss to the Saints, and they got the majority of cornerback snaps for Philly. The third starting corner was Rasul Douglas, a late third-round pick in 2017.

The Eagles had two major injuries at cornerback this year and those three low-investment players above have stepped up in a big way.

Watching this unfold in a playoff game frustrates and excites Joe.

It’s frustrating because the Bucs’ cornerback play was so brutal, helping allow a 72.5 percent completion rate for opposing QBs that should get Mike Smith and Mark Duffner an Imodium endorsement deal for at least two years. It’s frustrating because things didn’t have to be so bad, with horrid personnel decisions compounded by inept coaching in the secondary.

It’s exciting because it illustrates that you don’t need to make massive investments to fix a defensive backfield. (Hello, Eli Apple trade at the October deadline.)

And it’s exciting to think how a decent coaching of defensive backs could help the Bucs in a hurry.

DERRICK BROOKS & IRA KAUFMAN talk about the BRUCE ARIANS hire on TAMPA TWO, presented by Caldeco Air Conditioning & Heating.

37 Responses to “Corner Frustration & Fixes On Display”

  1. tmaxcon Says:

    until they fix the leadership void in the building coaches nor players will have a chance. hopefully, BA has the sack and determination to change the culture.

  2. OneBucPerson Says:

    Gimme that guy Greedy Williams at 5.

  3. Darin Says:

    And the RBs. And every other position. Worst staff of all time just left the building. Hope has arrived.

  4. AlteredEgo Says:

    Chicken or the egg….DB or pass rush…our young DB’s combined with over the hill Grimes were greatly affected by the poor DL pressure much of the season….DL & OL high priority this draft

  5. Frank Pillow Says:

    Coaching, coaching, coaching.

  6. Lord Cornelius Says:

    The Eagles have philosophically built from the trenches out. Their dominant D-line / front 7 is why you can plug whoever in at CB – along with good coaching.

    They drafted a DE round 1 even though D-line wasn’t a weakness. It’s why Denver took Chubb still despite having Von Miller.

    While Marshon Lattimore has been huge for the Saints, their investments in guys like Rankins/Davenport on top of Cam Jordan and some of the Lbs they’ve recently gotten have been just as if not more important.

  7. Bruce Blahak Says:

    clearly out coached all year…when did a halftime adjustment ever work? usually things got worse in the second half…

  8. AlteredEgo Says:


  9. Bucsfanman Says:

    Hopefully, the new staff will be able to elevate the entire team. There were glimpses of hope with Davis, Stewart looked waaaay slow, and Whitehead looks like a keeper.
    The more we can get out of these guys, the less we have to spend in FA/draft.
    It’s been about coaching for 3 years now. Lets see these cats with a real coach in the fold.

  10. LUVMYBUCS Says:



  11. ndog Says:

    This is why when people say we are not talented, I am not so sure, as how can we properly evaluate our current talent when we know the coaching was soooooooooo bad.

  12. JabooBuc Says:

    Trade down. You can get a quality CB later.

  13. tmaxcon Says:

    ndog Says:
    January 14th, 2019 at 12:05 pm

    This is why when people say we are not talented, I am not so sure, as how can we properly evaluate our current talent when we know the coaching was soooooooooo bad.

    the coaching has been bad since the last whistle in the super bowl so what does that tell you??? It’s not only the coaching, it’s the franchise simple as that… lots of good coaches and players have come here and failed. I have been on this site for years watching the optimists cheer every player that was acquired like it was babe ruth only to get nut-punched after they regressed. facts can’t be ignored even by delusional optimists who prefer denial over reality. A.B. first priority is changing the entire building and that might turn out to be an impossible task given factual history.

  14. SOEbuc Says:

    An entire secondary needs to be put into place before any position in it can work. We have no one not under rookie contract that’s been taught by a Mike Smith defense. Patrick Peterson would be a great move. All-Pro long time Cardinal. Got Bowels and Peterson teaching defense.

  15. SOEbuc Says:

    *not been taught by a Mike Smith defense

  16. 813bucboi Says:

    been saying for years its coaching not talent…..those mid round picks have outperformed our 1st & 2nd round picks because of coaching…..


  17. AlteredEgo Says:

    Jaboo….as much as I’d love to take ONE of the great talents after only 4 players have been picked….I feel the wise thing to do is trade down and add picks…the roster has too many holes particularly on both lines OL & DL….

  18. Todd Says:


    Not at #5, but at #7…you can make TWO trades (one to #6 and the second to #7) to QB-starved teams and STILL have Greedy available at #7.

  19. teacherman777 Says:

    Greedy Williams aint no Champ Bailey!

    Greedy Williams aint no Patrick Peterson!

    Look at his tape. He is not lightning quick. He has a horrible strude when he runs. He also has a skinny neck and hes a weak tackler.

    Hes not worth a top 5 pick. Sorry. He is Morris Claiborne 2.0. A decent SEC CB but NOT an SEC legend like Champ Bailey or Patick Peterson.

  20. AlteredEgo Says:

    Todd Says:
    January 14th, 2019 at 12:36 pm

    Not at #5, but at #7…you can make TWO trades (one to #6 and the second to #7) to QB-starved teams and STILL have Greedy available at #7.

    Todd I’d kiss your feet if you can pull off that scenario…still would take Greedy though…folks are getting all gaga over his height…he’s good but not the first CB in the draft

  21. tmaxcon Says:

    I want to sit at a poker table with all your crazy trade this trade that wheeler-dealer types… easy Pickens

    first, djax, cancer93 and the rest you want to move have less than half the value you think they do… they may get a 4th for djax a 6th from Gruden for cancer93 but that’s it, people…

    bucs do have a shot if a team gets the bug for one of this crappy QB’s to move down from 5…. Bucs suck so bad a drafting they need to focus on the Bucs not trying to outsmart themselves with the trade this trade that… they are not smart enough to do that. they have proven that. every time they overthink a draft they screw it up.

  22. BigPoppaBuc Says:

    This franchise cannot spend more draft picks on corners. They just can’t. Let the new coaching staff see what they can do with these young guys. No way can we spend a top 5 pick on another corner. So we missed on Derwin, it’s done. Let Bowles and co. do what they can.

  23. tmaxcon Says:


    you are dead on sir… pick needs to be best OT available given the fact the Bucs have not had an NFL caliber OT on the roster since Donald Penn was jettisoned by loser lovie.

  24. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I agree with the posters to build the trenches……Joe just proved you don’t even have to draft a QB to get one who is serviceable.

    Spend the 1st two draft picks on Dline & Oline

  25. Wausa Says:

    Bucs need to take advantage of the depth of this draft on the DLine.

    The Bucs can pick up a few solid corners in free agency(not a bad year to get help there) and solidify the defensive line with one or two of its first picks in the draft.

  26. #1bucfan Says:

    Fix the coaching(check)
    Fix the trenches ( hopefully wrk in progress)
    Fix the turnover machine ( w.i.p.)lol
    Fix the secondary(w.i.p.)
    Fix the dang kicking. (W.i.p.)
    Dear Tampa bay plzz keep fixing these issues. Sincerely your buc fans

  27. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Build the trenches and watch this team take off! I’m hoping a new defensive scheme can benefit these existing cb’s where they are serviceable

  28. Grt1 Says:

    The cornerback play was good because OF THE FREAKING PASS RUSH!!!!!! Only smokes it’s not that difficult to follow football. Fix the trenches!!!!

  29. stpetebucsfan Says:


    Sorry to disagree but EVERYTHING you just posted was your OPINION with NO links or reports from draft experts.

    So let me help a little. Walter Football has Greedy 4th best of all DB’s coming out. They are the ONLY site I could find that did not have him #1. I’m sure there are others but not many obviously.
    The charges you just leveled from YOUR viewing video simply do not match up with the expert opinion which has Greedy a top ten pick and perhaps “generational”. The only big question is his weight…he’s only 185…can he hold up in the NFL. He’s coming out early…only a sophomore he should easily be able to add another ten pounds in a the next year or two.

    Draftek has Greedy top rated DB.

    SI has Greedy top rated DB

    Here is their take…it couldn’t be more opposite than SOME of our posters.

    Williams is the consensus top defensive back prospect, slated to be selected in the first ten picks. The redshirt sophomore is an elite lockdown corner, a complete prospect in every sense of the word. Williams’s 6′ 3″ frame separates him from recent top corner selections—Denzel Ward is listed at 5′ 11’—and his impressive wingspan makes him one of the best deep-ball corners in the country. Offenses won’t dare challenging Williams on a fade or isolation route near the sidelines.

    It’s not just Williams’s size that sets him apart. He changes directions with ease and doesn’t possess tight hips like other tall corners. Williams can stop on a dime and change directions, bursting from a backpedal into attack mode on slants and comeback routes. Williams is a great anticipatory corner, adept at reading a quarterback’s tendencies. His combination of brains and braun will quickly translate to the pros. LSU had a long history of impressive NFL defensive backs, and Williams is well on his way to joining the club.

  30. Lord Cornelius Says:

    @st pete

    I’m open to Greedy if he’s a true blue chip and the last blue chip player left on the board when we’re picking. I could even live with him over OL or DL if they just view him as being that much better of a lock for being a star.

    But I could also live with basically signing one CB that we know can play outside and maybe drafting one late and that’s it.

    Outside CB1 – FA pickup / late round developmental pick
    Outside CB2 – Carlton Davis / VHIII / Ryan Smith
    Slot – VHIII / Stewart / Elliot

    If VHIII just stays healthy he should be a serviceable #2 at worst and definitely can play the slot well.

  31. passthebuc Says:

    The front 4 and the linebacking corp have a lot to do about the success and failure of the back end……

  32. tmaxcon = POSITIVE REALITY Says:

    Lord Cornelius

    vh3bust is not a nfl player simple as that. just another local feel good story who failed. you can’t coach or fix short, slow and stupid….

  33. stpetebucsfan Says:

    Lord C

    I’m really wide open when it comes to the draft. My fantasy I guess would be to trade down and get Greedy later plus another pick…we can all dream eh?

    I certainly wouldn’t be upset if we took one of the Bama tackles…OT or DT…in fact almost any stud DL or OL would be fine.

    I think Greedy got my attention because we could use a shutdown corner with length who can stop end zone fades near the sideline for TD’s.

    One guy here wanted to draft Greedy and also get Peterson…wow what a tandem. As I told him…now he’s being greedy…not impossible but hard to believe it would really happen. Might have the best backfield since the Legion of Boom.

    But I get we have a lot of needs. I can say this…I have a few faves but so far I do not see any top choices that would upset me.

  34. Buccaneerscotty Says:

    I want a left tackle at #5! And I think Hartgraves will do better I press coverage! GO BUCS

  35. Buccaneerscotty Says:

    Vh3 is not a bust ! Give a real D coordinator a chance with him and others on this team! Always so quick to cut people

  36. BucEmUp Says:

    Lovie Smith and Mike Smith have kept the Bucs in the basemnet the last 5 years. Before that it was lack of offense. This team hasn’t had it right in a loooooooooong time. Its been coaching more than its been talent. Bill bellichect would win with our roster every year.

  37. pick6 Says:

    when nobodies on one team are performing while highly drafted players on another team are not, coaching tends to explain the difference