What The Bucs Could Be

November 20th, 2018

Long way away.

That was a fun game we watched last night on BSPN wasn’t it?

Of course, the Monday Night Football game won by the Rams over the Chiefs was sort of like a Big XII game with a little defense sprinkled in.

(Joe has zero ties to any Big XII school but often watches Big XII games on Saturdays because that is entertaining football: Oklahoma, West Virginia, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, shoot, even Texas to a lesser degree. One recent Saturday, Joe never turned the channel the whole day and watched three back-to-back-back Big XII games. Joe has reached the point in his life that unless a team has a quarterback that can sling it, Joe has little interest in watching.)

But the Rams-Chiefs shootout made it painfully clear how far the Bucs must travel just to be a winning team in the NFL much less a playoff team.

Some things Joe saw that you don’t see often in Bucs games:

* Coaches using top-shelf skill position players on special teams. Notice speed demon Tyreek Hill returned punts for the Chiefs? But DeSean Jackson cannot be bothered with such a thing?

* A defense actually contesting receivers. Even getting a pick now and then.

* A defense that regularly gets pressure on a quarterback?

* A coach that doesn’t panic/throw a temper tantrum and bench his young quarterback over a couple of turnovers (including fumble recoveries that are housed). Joe is just going to take a stab and guess Andy Reid is not going to demote Pat Mahomes the next three weeks and replace him with Chad Henne.

* Running backs who can exploit a hole and run for an explosive play.

The Bucs currently seem incapable of matching that output.

Joe is going to take a walk out on a limb and suggest the Bucs have better skill position players in the passing  gamethan the Rams and maybe the Chiefs, too.

How is it those teams can’t move the ball as well as the Bucs but they can score touchdowns, which the Bucs struggle to do?

Yes, last night’s game was fun. In the big picture, however, both Kansas City and Los Angeles demonstrated what a long road the Bucs have to join the big boys of the NFL.

54 Responses to “What The Bucs Could Be”

  1. Ndog Says:

    * A coach that doesn’t panic/throw a temper tantrum and bench his young quarterback over a couple of turnovers (including fumble recoveries that are housed). Joe is just going to take a stab and guess Andy Reid is not going to demote Pat Mahomes the next three weeks and replace him with Chad Henne.

    Thanks Joe this is what I was tell the Jameis haters all night last night but just didn’t get it.

  2. Tampa Bay Demon Says:

    I may be in the minority, but I have to admit…
    I really miss DEFENSE in the NFL.

    As an example… people are saying this is Drew Brees finest season ever..
    largely because he has 25 TD’s and 1 INT.

    Do you realize that is the same stat line the Bucs D has given up to opposing QB’s? —– 25 TD’s and 1 INT.

    Wow. — I miss DEFENSE in TB too.

  3. Rick Says:

    “How is it those teams can’t move the ball as well as the Bucs but they can score touchdowns, which the Bucs struggle to do?“

    Competent coaching and qb play

  4. Waterboy Says:

    If Pat Mahomes has 3 yrs of having a TD/INT ratio of less than 2 to 1, I’m sure he’d have to consider moving on.

  5. Joseph Mamma Says:

    Joe is just going to take a stab and guess Andy Reid is not going to demote Pat Mahomes the next three weeks and replace him with Chad Henne.

    Yeah seeing it is Mahomes first year as a starter and he is playing better than any QB in league I really don’t any comparison to Winston and the Bucs. Other than the fact that they play the same position and are under 25. Pretty much stops after that.

  6. Waterboy Says:

    I agree TampaBayDemon I miss having defense in the NFL. The NFL is starting to get like basketball where most scores are meaningless until you get down to the last 3 mins.

  7. Kobe Faker Says:

    “I reward selfish players that demand to be traded by making them captains

    I am a leader of ice cream machine”

    Klueless Koetter

  8. ghost Says:

    Comparing Mahomes to Winston is ridiculous and you should be ashamed

  9. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:


    Patrick Mahomes scored 51 points, when has Jamies ever done that???? Plus broadcasters said this was the first game in 10 games that mahomes turned the ball over like that (this is his first year starting). Jamies the turn over clown does that EVERY game for FOUR straight years, and Koetter only benched him ONCE!

    Come on man, put some context in that comparison

  10. Buc50 Says:

    Notice all of the shallow crossing patterns? Getting receivers open and let them carry the rock…it’s a beautiful thing

  11. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    Well ^

    that’s why it’s so sickening what bucs fans having to deal with losing all these years since the SB….

  12. Kaptain Morgan Says:

    Whenever the Bucs get in the Red Zone they tense up and press causing turnovers and panic among the team. Between the 20’s they are one of the best offenses in the league, but you wonder who is calling the plays once the Bucs get into the Red Zone. Monken supposedly was calling the Offense plays last week, but I noticed Koetter looking at the play sheet in his hand a lot and calling out “something” into his headset a lot. Seems like there are too many cooks in the kitchen with the offense and the coaches cannot get out of their own way.

  13. zzbuc Says:

    Its not about Winston lovers or haters, I dont hate him at all, I just think he turns the ball over a lot….and if that happens you will not win….pure and simple…..That doesnt make me a Winston hater, I also think Fitz has the same problem, and does not make me a Fitz hater by any means……..I think we have a team with talent on WR and TE, we have some talent on the DL, and a good LB woth a torn ACL……NO secondary att all, less than normal OL, no kickers, very sporadic running game,and a very errant couple of QB….SO its a GM problem not a coaching poroblem……I would bring a new defensive corp, and a new GM…..

  14. Tampa Bay Demon Says:

    Bucs Fan #7423 Says:
    “Patrick Mahomes scored 51 points, when has Jamies ever done that?”


    Jameis did hang 45 on the Eagles in Philly, in his rookie season also. It’s pretty close. Just answering the question for some levity.

  15. AncientBuc Says:

    For the Jameis hater crowd, do you know when turnovers mainly occur? They mainly occur when teams are down by 2 scores or more. Jameis is no different. Check the numbers, interceptions beyond the first occur more when down by a lot of points. They also occur more with longer routes and guess who runs the longest routes in the league? We do. He needs to play better and he certainly was bad against Bengals but he improved every year until all of this disruption which he owns. He will be fine and better than all prospects coming out this year. He will be here.

  16. Not there yet Says:

    It’s not a long road, that type of team is roughly less than two months away, get rid of this offensive coordinator masquerading as a head coach along with his staff, Geraldine and his band of merry losers. Next year this team will be what it could have been last year if they had gotten rid of dirk and traded away losers

    I just can’t understand the glazers. How did playing hard at the end of a losing season factor in bringing dirk back more than anything else. I could see thinking the offense was on the cusp but to bring everyone back except jay Hayes knowing the defense was horrible? Complete waste of time and dirk should pay with his job

  17. tickrdr Says:

    We should trade Winston for Mahomes.
    We should trade Winston for Goff.
    We should trade Winston for Wentz.
    We should trade Winston for Watson.
    We should trade Winston for Trubisky.
    What? ……………….. You don’t think those teams would trade any of those guys for Winston?……………………..Yeah, me neither.


  18. Bucsfanman Says:

    Again, there will be those that point out the Bucs are #1 in passing yards and stomp their feet about the mere thought that Jameis might not be the franchise QB the Bucs are looking for.
    All I have to say is look at the game last night and tell me about how “good” our offense is. There is no comparison. Our #1 standing is a mirage, a house of cards built on a cheap motel vibrating bed. We need to stop trotting out all these useless statistics about passing yards.
    Stop turning the ball over.
    Commit to the run-game.
    Play average defense.
    Make plays on special teams.
    We are so far away from these teams that it makes no sense!

  19. El Buco Realisto Says:

    Its funny to see joe say what a long way the bucs have to go, But he is stumping for the two biggest road blocks to stay that is holding the team back!!!! QB and GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    NFL teams either have a franchise QB or are looking for a franchise QB!!! And the Bucs are looking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. ben Says:

    Tick…You are my hero … very cool and on point…

  21. Dapostman Says:

    Andy Reid
    Sean McVay
    Dirk Koetter

    Who doesn’t belong in this conversation? The top two are masters of distraction. They distract you into thinking this but that is what is going to happen. Where as the bottom guy does not lull you much. Andy Reid was a West Coast offense guy but he has fit his offense to his personnel. Koetter’s offense does not use the RB position in the passing game. Totally opposite of what Hunt and Gurley get to do for their teams.

  22. Tampa Bay Demon Says:

    Bucsfanman says
    “Play average defense”


    You said it ALL right there.

    Do you realize that if the Bucs were giving up 25 points per game..
    25 points !!!!?????
    They would be sitting at 8-2 right now.

  23. BrianBucs Says:

    Bucs wont be anything until they get a true, talented franchise QB, which they dont have now

  24. Bucamania Says:

    What strikes me as dramatically different between the Bucs and these two teams is an aggressive approach is the creativity of the playcalling on both sides of the ball. The Bucs are not out-coaching ANYONE and the players know it.

  25. LakeLand Says:

    The teams we watched last night has great offenses

    The Bucs has the NFL best ” Garbage Time” offense
    They rack up a bunch of yards, when down by 3-4 scores
    They rack up a bunch of yards, then turn the ball over

    In the end

    They lose the game

    But they gained a lot of garbage yards while losing

  26. BUCLUV55 Says:

    To compare Mahomes to Winston is perhaps the dumbest thing said yet on this website.and that’s saying something….
    An MVP candidate that has more TD passes through 10 games than Winston does in 2 seasons. There is no comparison on any level.
    Take your blinders off.
    You should be embarrassed.

  27. deminion Says:

    notice that the wrs were open we give the QB a hard time mostly every throw both guys made and missed WR’s were running open. Reid and Mcvay scheme guys open

  28. Steven007 Says:

    BUCLUV you took the words out of my mouth. But Joe knows this. He’s just being provocative for clicks.

  29. 813bucboi Says:

    the biggest difference was coaching….both coaches had there teams ready to play…..both knew exactly what they wanted to accomplish…..

    good coaching could mask a lot of our problems…..


  30. 813bucboi Says:


    the biggest thing holding this team back id dirk and his outdated 4vert system!!!!!

    NFL team either have a good HC or are looking for a good HC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    now go give dirk a few quotes on some U-HAULS!!!!!!!!!…..


  31. donuts Says:

    Wow I cant believe what I just read….

    OK, the reason is we dont have the brute force OL of either KC or Rams.

    When I read this kind of stuff…we know who wrote the article….spiteful much??? “coach that doesn’t panic/throw a temper tantrum and bench his young quarterback over a couple of turnovers (including fumble recoveries” Big difference between Mahomes and Winston…WINS! and TD/TO ratio…lets say Mahomes has street cred and Winston does not.

    The benching had to do with Winston not running the plays called and bonehead turnovers combo. The whispers I hear tell me that.

  32. Chris@Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa Says:

    I thought the same thing, watching last nights game. Both the Chiefs and Rams are light years ahead of the Bucs.
    They are so far ahead of us, it isn’t funny.
    We are Paper Tigers, and our “number one offense” is because we are always so behind in points that other teams go into prevent defenses, making it easy for us to rack up yards.
    Years of bad drafting is taking it’s toll on us, and this years draft class was a real disaster.
    IOW, we suck.

  33. Eric Says:

    Mahomes turned it over five times.

    One pick six INT one fumble returned for a TD. Pretty much gave the rams 28 points. Then two picks at the end to seal it for LA. Bad floating punt like throws right into the belly of the defender.

    Plenty of boneheaded turnovers by a young player. Only a replay overturn prevented the sixth one.

    Goff too.

  34. Eric Says:

    Ill bet Andy Reid pulls him for the next game. Just doesn’t protect the ball.

  35. Eric Says:

    The turnovers just changed the game,” Mahomes told reporters after Kansas City’s second loss of the season. “I think I gave them 21 points, pretty much, through turnovers. It’s kind of just like at the New England game, you can’t give good teams points turning the ball over.”

    Egad, a young player turning the ball over.

  36. Bucamania Says:

    Notice how each team ATTACKED the other team’s perceived weaknesses with a well planned and executed game plan. You saw in-game adjustments. The HC talking to the players on the sidelines. Dirk and Smitty just do the same sh!t every week and have nothing to say to the players. Good riddance.

  37. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    We all know the picks are a big issue. Fumbles too last year.

    That doesn’t mean they are not fixable.

    Brett Favre threw 20+ picks 6 years of his career. He even came 1 pick short of 30 picks at one point. His third year, he threw 24 picks and fumbled 14 times. Fumbles were ALWAYS and issue with Brett Favre.

    In 1996, when he won the superbowl, Favre threw only 13 picks, but he was sacked 40 times and fumbled 11 times. That was his 6th year in the league. Three years before he left the Packers, he threw 29 picks and fumbled 10 times.

    Now, I’m sure there were Packers fans who wanted Favre out of there from the beginning. Fans tend to not have patience.

    But regardless of the high turnover ratio, the high sack numbers and the high number of fumbles, Brett Favre ended up being one of the best in history. Favre himself likes to pretend he was much better than he was though…and thinks he didn’t make those mistake, but he did.

    In his case, the turnovers were never fixed. And yet…

  38. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:


    Smitty is no longer with the team. Hasn’t been for weeks. You should know that, lol.

  39. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Chris@Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa Says
    “Both the Chiefs and Rams are light years ahead of the Bucs.”

    That’s because they had enough patience to let things come together. They developed their young players.

  40. jjbucfan Says:

    True Bonzai, no Smitty, but they did put Duffner in as DC (I’m guessing that was Dirk’s move) and he has been Smitty’s sidekick for years and years. Do you think he knows any other defense to run? Has our defense improved since Smitty has been fired? No- because the Bucs (or Dirk) cannot think outside the box and move Buckner to the DC role to start to tweak little changes in our defense. I would not expect him to blow up the whole defense, but I promise you he would blitz more than 3 times a game. We fired Smitty and hired Smitty Jr, only the Bucs wouldn’t see that. Unfortunately, the Bucs are waiting too long to see what they have in Buckner and Monken. When your boy Koetter is fired, the new guy will clean all of them out.

  41. NY_Bucfan Says:

    You can’t compare Mahomes and Winston because of the different situations they are in.

    Who has the better group of receivers: Winston
    Who has the better #1 receiver: Mahomes but debatable
    Who has the better tight end: Mahomes
    Who has the better defense: Mahomes but debatable
    Who has the better coach: Mahomes
    And the most important reason for a quarterback’s success, who has the better offensive line: Mahomes

    Tom Brady proved that having a good offensive line, coach, and defense you can have success while plugging in average offensive weapons. Although Brady did have Moss for 3 years, he never won a championship with him.

    Bottom line is that Mahomes was given the keys to a playoff team and Winston was given a last place team hence the #1 pick.

  42. stpetebucsfan Says:

    Money will not be an issue in keeping JW next year. So we keep him with a very careful strategy in place.

    First ANY off field stuff and he’s out the door…ASAP

    Second…he has to agree to a new more managed game…no more out of control gunslinger. Yeah I know he’ll still lapse…he’ll still have turnovers but perhaps we can at least minimize them.

    Then we #DEFENSE Everything with the possible exception of a stud OL goes into the defense. We build the killer defense.

    Next year the transition…getting Jameis under control…building the defense…and then the following year we’re ready.

    The problem with our discussions about JW is that they take place at the extreme. Either #3 is the best QB evah….or he’s a horrible turnover machine we should unload.

    It is possible that the truth lies somewhere in between. JW is not going to be the franchise savior but if properly managed we could win with him and a great defense.

    The problem is culture change. Who stays and who goes based on what’s inside them. Of course it starts with #3. Is his head and heart in the right spot? I absolutely do not know and I can easily imagine them being in either spot. The Bucs better get this question answered properly. Can Jameis help turn this culture around? Or is he part of the problem? That’s the FIRST question they better answer. His talent is at least good enough to win if we have a good team and good defense. He doesn’t have to be HOF for us to win. But we MUST change the culture no matter who plays.

  43. VaTom Says:

    Joe’s, Koetter did more for your case by benching the “turnover machine” for the other turnover machine. You guys are lucky you can keep whining about how Mahomes didn’t get benched, without may I add having as many turnovers as Jameis despite putting up ungodly yards and starting every game. Hush now about Koetter, he saved your make believe franchise turnover machine for at least one more year…yaay

  44. Bucsdelight Says:

    Outside of JPP, Cameron Brate, O.J. Howard, and Evans, we should have been trading players left and right.

  45. danr Says:

    been coming here for a while Joe, but your propensity for taking Jameis’s criticisms out of context and diminishing their validity is making your arguments lose weight in my eyes. Jameis has ridiculous talent. that is a fair argument. Arguing that everyone has interceptions, so his play is acceptable, is not.

    you have compared him to Favre. Especially regarding INT’s. I think the difference is, in my mind Jameis is getting worse, while Favre trended better over the same number of passes. Sometimes you have to make a move to stop the avalanche. Jameis is still growing. But this kind of habit forming leaning IN to the interceptions is not acceptable. Both QB’s are bad with streaks of impressive talent, but to say that Jameis’s interceptions are no big deal, (because you choose to view the long perspective since his rookie year, instead of how bad he has been over his most recent starts) is cherry picking data.

  46. Bucsdelight Says:

    Finally, someone said it. Thanks Danr!

    FSU fans are the only ones that I can see for now holding on to Jameis. Sorry guys, success in the NCAA doesn’t translate to success in the NFL. It’s his 4th year and you all keep making excuses for him. He is what he is. However, Vita misses training, most of the season, and he is already a bust. Come on. You guys are so selective when it comes to your favorite college team. F the NCAA and pay attention to the NFL.

    Also, I know come the draft, you all will be pining for some FSU player to be drafted in the 1st round because that’s what you all do.

  47. Buc4evr Says:

    Dirk is an OC period. He is not qualified to be a HC and not getting more involved in every aspect of the game is inexcusable. Licht is a mental midget , all the guy needed to do was draft the safest player in every position, but no he had to trick himself into believing the guys he drafted way too high we’re going to be the special players everyone else missed. How is that working out now Jason ? This team can’t progress like the Rams until the entire coaching staff and GM are released.

  48. Rod Munch Says:

    Why didn’t the Rams just run the ball up the gut? They’re the best rushing team in football and yet instead of running they threw the ball. We know from Bucs fans you must rush the ball to win – yet the best rushing team didn’t do that.

    Oh right because their defense was giving up points but time and they had to throw to stay in the game.

    Amazing how that works.

  49. joestang Says:

    You still need a running back and a quarterback that can lead the offense, we have neither.

  50. Rod Munch Says:

    MaJobber has lost 2 of 3 on the road and his turnovers are getting worse, not better. He’s a turnover machine that can’t get it done in the road – it’s time to move on. Cut this bum and sign Mike Glennon, he will protect the ball and that’s the most important thing in football.

    Winston Hatemob

  51. Bucsfanman Says:

    Rod- You don’t think that the mere threat of Kareem Hunt breaking one or Todd Gurley busting loose had an effect?!
    Take what the defense gives you, right? Well when you’re a team that is NOT one-dimensional, you have the ability to adjust. I saw a lot of short throws in that game which is an extension of the run-game.
    Nice try though. Statistics bear it out.
    Do you really want Jameis Winston throwing the ball 50 times a game?

    BTW, the petulance is misplaced. Mahomes does not have a long history of turnovers, Jameis does, 4 years worth. I mean, you are watching the games right? There’s no way that you can defend ANY QB on this roster at this point. They are BOTH turnover prone. The only difference between the two is one was the #1 pick and the other a backup.
    All this typing in probably for naught anyway. You’ve made up your mind regarding Jameis. We’re all just crazy. Jameis is the “best QB the team has ever had!”
    Like the rest of the perceived “hatemob”, I just have one request: It’s been four years, PROVE IT!!!

  52. Tony LA Says:

    Agree Joe.
    But the Bucs are one young, smart, innovative coach away.
    Give a good, innovative coach the same roster and watch.

  53. unbelievable Says:

    They can both run the ball, consistently.

    Simple as that.

  54. View from 132 Says:

    See week 1 win over the Saints… shootouts are fun, but defense wins playoff games. We already have a team that can lose 54-51 or whatever it was.