November 1st, 2018

Two-headed monster.

Oh, what could have been.

The Bucs offense is sick. Yeah, it doesn’t have a full-time quarterback yet leads the NFL in yards. That is not supposed to happen.

Sitting in his Philadelphia-area home office, Mike Tanier of Bleacher Report surveys the landscape and sees what should be a mint BMW cruising down the Suncoast Parkway suddenly drop its transmission because the quarterbacks have run into the median.

There is only one solution for this midseason, Tanier writes. And it usually blows up in a coach’s face.

The problem: Jameis Winston had another one of those games in which underneath defenders were invisible to him and wide-open receivers 20 yards downfield were invitations to throw the football 30 yards. Winston threw four interceptions but could have thrown six if Bengals defenders had better hands.

Ryan Fitzpatrick replaced Winston, shrugged off a dropped interception of his own and threw two touchdowns in a near-comeback, starting the clock for when Fitzgerald has his own multi-interception meltdown in a game or two.

The solution: Winston and Fitzpatrick are the same guy with different biorhythms. Head coach Dirk Koetter’s best bet may be to yank them in and out of the lineup for the rest of the season to see if he can ride their hot streaks into the playoffs. It’s unconventional and slightly bonkers, but admit it: You don’t have any better ideas.

This makes the most sense even though on face value it makes no sense. You know, if you have two quarterbacks you have none?

For whatever reason, when both quarterbacks have come off the bench this season, they’ve been tolerable if not good right away, and progressively got worse. It’s weird as hell.

The way Dirk Koetter’s body language has been, it’s like he’s at wit’s end. It’s almost a panic move but it just may work out. There really are no options — stop with the Ryan Griffin chatter.

No wonder Koetter’s hair is all grayed out. Joe’s surprised the poor guy isn’t bald.

71 Responses to ““Catastrophe””

  1. Ray Rice Says:

    Man bring back Jeff Garcia or Tim Rattay. $hiit even Chris Simms and his batted balls. I just want to feel what it’s like for the YUCS to win again.

  2. jmarkbuc Says:

    Why stop with “the Ryan Griffin chatter”

    Dude has been on the team 4yrs, not unreasonable that we might want to see him play.

    Especially under these weird QB circumstances.

    Unless Joe is just apprehensive about a deactivated JW…

  3. DB55 Says:

    Winston and Fitzpatrick are the same guy with different biorhythms.
    It’s the system, the routes, the offense.

    I just saw Winston’s pc and you have to admit he’s saying all the right things. He’s a better man than me cuz I would be all

    ….the defense sucks they can’t handle me turning the ball over. I mean they’re on pace to allow 36+ points per game and with ints or not you just can’t win consistently when you have to score 40 ppg with no ints cuz our def can’t force any turnovers either. So yea it’s all my fault!!!

  4. Joe Says:

    Dude has been on the team 4yrs, not unreasonable that we might want to see him play.

    A dude who has never taken a snap in the NGL is supposed to lead the Bucs to the playoffs? If the Bucs were as sold on Griffin as they claim, they wouldn’t have had such a boner to get Nick Foles or Ryan Fitzpatrick.

  5. DB55 Says:

    Luke kueckly will expose Koetters antiquated offense and Fitzmagic. This will be comical at best but wtfdik

    Btw I keep seeing receivers using their hands to catch balls off of defenders helmets but I digress. None of which did so by trying to catch the ball with their chest but again I digress.

  6. Joe Says:

    LOL Tim Rattay!

  7. LakeLand Says:

    The Yucs will always Suck
    They had 11 starting QB
    In the 10 years before Jameis

    They have had 39 starting QB in 42 years

    What type of team is this

    39 starting QUARTERBACKS in 42 years

  8. Dewey Selmon Says:

    Fitz is good for a meltdown every 3rd game. That puts him at 6-3 for the rest of the year and the Bucs at 9-7. If he played a full season he would be 10-5 at the least. His last full year he went 10-6. What is the problem people? I just don’t understand.

  9. LakeLand Says:

    Talking about a ” Revolving” door

    Fry Cooks at Church’s Chicken
    Has less turnover rate

  10. CRABMAN Says:

    agreed. start fitz, let them get up by 3 TD’s then put in jw

    after his 3 picks it’ll be tie and fitz can come back in to win the game

    and jw gets experience


  11. CRABMAN Says:


    yall hiring over at churches?

  12. Pistol Pete Says:

    When you are in a position to lose your job you can and should exhaust every single avenue to keep it. Been there, unfortunately, and did everything I could to keep my job.
    If I was Koetter I would deploy every single asset at my disposal to keep my gig.
    Nothing would be off the table including rotating all 3 QB’s if necessary.

  13. jjbucfan Says:

    Let’s go with Fitz as the OPENER and then bring in Winston to finish the game off, Why not- Everyone laughed at Kevin Cash

  14. jmarkbuc Says:


    I suppose if you are operating on the assumption that this is a playoff team, your argument might make sense….

    “….the defense sucks they can’t handle me turning the ball over…

    Said no great QB ever

    4 times is a lot for any Defense to overcome, no matter who the QB is.

  15. jmarkbuc Says:

    45 or however many games JW has had is enough “experience”

  16. DB55 Says:


    The jets had the 9th ranked defense that year allowing only 19 ppg.

    The Bucs currently have the 32nd ranked def giving up 33 ppg.

    Fitz is avg 26 ppg (give or take)

    Winston avg 20 ppg (give or take)

    So both would be undefeated if they played with the jets defense.

  17. Casey Morgan Says:

    Dewey Selmon Says:

    “Fitz is good for a meltdown every 3rd game. That puts him at 6-3 for the rest of the year and the Bucs at 9-7. If he played a full season he would be 10-5 at the least. His last full year he went 10-6. What is the problem people? I just don’t understand.”


  18. Steven Graves Says:

    Why not Minot?? You can tell I’ve been around a while. LOL Seriously, if things continue to melt down why not give Griffen a chance. If not then why is he taking up space?

    GO BUCS!!!!!

  19. Bucfan1976 Says:

    Here’s an idea
    Go to the beach Sunday.

  20. LakeLand Says:


    Fitz is a ” Career” 50-72-1
    The man is 36 years old
    Has been in the league 14 years

    Has never, ever been in a PLAYOFF game

  21. LakeLand Says:

    The reason why he was 10-6 in his last full season as a starter

    The next season he was 3-8 and was benched
    Threw 6 INTERCEPTIONS against the Kansas City Chiefs

  22. DB55 Says:

    akeLand Says:
    November 1st, 2018 at 1:51 pm

    Fitz is a ” Career” 50-72-1
    The man is 36 years old
    Has been in the league 14 years

    Has never, ever been in a PLAYOFF game

    This is why Djax, Dotson and McIceCream (I’m sure) are all on his but’s. Not a darn one of the have played in the PO in 14 years.

  23. DBS Says:

    So receivers have to catch the ball off defenders helmets? What does that tell you about where Winston is putting the ball? You should just be quiet and not help prove everyone’s point.

  24. DB55 Says:


    You should watch more football.

  25. passthebuc Says:

    playing Fitz at all is an admission that the people at the top screwed up the draft. If Fitz succeeds, or, if Ryan Griffin comes in and does well it becomes apparent that the GM and the Coaching staff know absolutely nothing.

  26. Lord Cornelius Says:

    The best case outcome is making the playoffs with Winston as the QB and him developing.

    I don’t see how we get there at this point. If we get to the playoffs it’s likely on the back of Fitz playing well. If Winston comes back it’s probably because Fitz sh1t the bed again and then we’re just playing a carousel like this guy suggests with no continuity.

    It’s almost like best case is Fitz plays bad and we still win somehow; and then Winston comes back and plays well and we make the playoffs; but I don’t see how that happens given our Defense/Run game.

  27. Mike Says:

    I’ve been thinking the same thing- I love it!
    A true team game- let griffin play too if he’s as exciting as coaches claim.
    We can make a mockery of the rest of the league with our new approach and it will get rid of the drama locker room stuff

  28. Dewey Selmon Says:

    Lakeland, Fitz has never had the weapons he has now. He already set an NFL record with “weapons for Winston”.

  29. PSLBob Says:

    Forget the Ryan Griffen chatter? Why are they carrying 3 QBs? The guy’s played well in preseason but he’s been paired with 2nd and 3rd stringers. He may be as good as Koetter and Co. say he his, but just lacks experience. I get it. You don’t want to chance it as long as there’s any shot at the playoffs. But once we’re out of the race, put him in and let him get some in-game reps. If not, why carry him any longer?

  30. Defense Rules Says:

    @Joe … “Dirk Koetter’s best bet may be to yank them in and out of the lineup for the rest of the season to see if he can ride their hot streaks into the playoffs.”

    Hmmm, I proposed that a week ago Joe & several were incredulous that anyone would even think that way. But if the goal is to WIN, then why not go with the hot hand. One thing I love about Fitz is that he plays with confidence all the time & I’m convinced those around him sense that. He seems to have the ability to shrug off a bad play & move on. Jameis plays with confidence SOMETIMES, and those around him most likely sense when his confidence gets shaken. He hasn’t learned yet how to shrug off bad plays IMO & you can literally see him get rattled. I still remember 1 play from last Sunday (after a bad play) where Jameis was jumping around in the pocket like a dancing bear … no way he was seeing the field well because his head was all over the place (as were his feet). And no, that play didn’t go well either.

  31. Not there yet Says:

    Get a pass rush on fit and he starts to look his age. Isn’t that what happened in games 3&4? Or is it the maniac fans in this town are ok with interceptions as long as we are throwing bombs in between? Guess we’ll see when he faces the panthers. Fitz is scared of pressure in his old age

  32. Defense Rules Says:

    @Not There Yet … “Fitz is scared of pressure in his old age.” And you know that how? I’ve watched him on any number of deep throws let it fly while at least one behemoth was smack dab in his face. Fitz took a lickin’ & kept on tickin’. Does he perform better when our OLine does its’ job & actually pass protects? Of course. Wouldn’t ANY QB? Wouldn’t you?

  33. TampaTown Says:

    I like the idea. After all, what do you got to lose? Koetter had blond hair when he was promoted and it’s already turning white. That tells you all you need to know. I think we’re lucky he hasn’t had a heart attack on the sideline.

  34. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:

    Get Dirk a d#mn QB!

  35. DBS Says:

    Db55. I watch plenty. Even played it. If you were not so busy trying to make excuses you might understand what your own statement proves.

  36. Buc'n Enough Says:

    Ray Rice…
    I will better you one…bring back Parnell Dickenson!

  37. JabooBuc Says:

    Actually go look at Fitz’s stats against Pitt. He played well and started to torch Pitt while they blitzed. Chicago was a different story. They didn’t need to blitz to get to Fitz. They were getting plenty of pressure while maximizing coverage. Sorry, but that’s hard for any QB to deal with. They played upon this teams two biggest weaknesses: our inability to protect and our inability to cover. Hard to blame Fitz for that game.

  38. Destinjohnny Says:

    Start creating extra picks in the 20 draft

  39. DB55 Says:

    Hard to blame Fitz for that game.
    Just remember Winston threw for 395 yards and 4 TDS and we blamed him for ALMOST losing after repeated saying that’s Wins are the only thing that matters.

  40. WalkdaPlank Says:

    The people who want Tua are the same people who wanted Johnny Manziel

  41. Bobby M. Says:

    The players like Fitz because he plays under the same accountability everyone else does.

  42. Bob in Valrico Says:

    @defense rules
    Did you see my earlier reference to archives from earlier thread. “front office divided ” in archives about one page back.
    Licht future is directly tied to Jameis’s success. Just my opinion ,but Fitz the has been put on the spot once again to produce wins against long odds. Brian Billicks analysis of what the Bucs are in for with Cowboy blitzes and Newton being utilized as a
    power back to complement MacCaffrey. Siezing the lead and keeping it our best chancefor success IMO.

  43. LakeLand Says:

    Dewey Selmon

    You mean passing weapons, not total weapons

    The 2015 Jets was 4th in total defense
    Tied for 2nd in scoring defense
    2nd in rush defense
    3rd in punt return averages
    Tied for 3rd in takeaways
    Tied for 6th in turnover ratio

    And they were ranked 10th in offensive rushing

  44. LakeLand Says:

    **Tied for 7th in scoring defense**

  45. Dewey Selmon Says:

    And our defense sucks, so why is he being successful if you are basing him being go because of a good defense. Your argument just backfired. He has a winning record as a Buc QB.

  46. LakeLand Says:

    I’m saying he can’t win 8 games in a season with this Buc team

  47. LakeLand Says:

    Let alone 10

  48. Conte Piscatelli Says:

    So we all know Fitz will have a Fitz day coming, problem is Jameis obviously has those too. The real problem is the franchise isMessiah being at least matched if not outplayed by a 14 yr journeyman QB in year 4.

  49. LakeLand Says:

    Fans has to hope that the offense score 40 points a game to win

    They think Fitz can do it every week
    The thing is, he only scored 30 once

  50. Dewey Selmon Says:

    Actually if the defense can tighten up by 1 TD a game, from 32 to 25 ppg we have a damn good chance to win. But when your qb throws a pic 6 and 3 other int’s it hard to do.

  51. Defense Rules Says:

    @Bob in Valrico … “Licht future is directly tied to Jameis’s success.” Agree with you on that Bob (and ya, did see the earlier reference about The House Divided). IF Jameis isn’t the answer though, not just Licht’s head will roll. Koetter & this staff have even more at stake.

    A number of people keep saying that Jameis can’t win with this defense. Newsflash: if you throw 4 picks in a game, no defense can bail you out. His turnovers hurt the defense more than it does the offense … the offense gets to go rest; our defense has to hustle back onto the field, often with crappy field position. Pretty much the same thing IMO with having lousy kickers who can’t make FGs … our defense pays for it, again often with crummy field position. Bucs’ defense is bad enough all on their own; they don’t need the Bucs’ offense making things WORSE.

  52. charles Stevens Says:

    I like jameis winstons intangibles over Fitz ,however fitzes errors are at least forced errors.
    Its going to be tough for Fitz to keep the starting job,defenses know all they have to do is rattle him.Here comes the pass rush.

  53. LakeLand Says:

    Defense Rules

    The offense had 7 turnovers in 10 quarters
    When Jameis wasn’t playing
    When I was talking turnovers then

    It was a non-issue
    Everyone was turning a blind eye

  54. LakeLand Says:

    When the Bucs were turning the ball over when Jameis was suspended

    Mike Smith was the scapegoat

  55. JabooBuc Says:

    DB55: Not sure which game you are referring to. His pick against the Falcons was another dumb forced throw that cost us certain points which of course was the difference in that game, another loss. The won the Cleveland game despite him falling apart in the 2nd half and throwing an incredibly bad pick in OT. Just plain bad decisions.

  56. PSLBob Says:

    Defense Rule- Like your analysis. The D has enough problems. Don’t compound them with turnovers and missed kicks.

  57. JabooBuc Says:

    Lakeland: little disingenuous use of stats. 4 of this 7 came in the first half against Pitt. There was no blind eye turned prior to that game because there simply wasn’t much to see. Two of the picks against Pitt were tipped balls and then one was a bad route by Evans. Other turnover was the fumble by Godwin.

    Not sure what point you are trying to make. There is no comparison to the amount of turnovers caused by Fitz vs those caused by JW. Hell, I believe JW is leading the league in picks despite missing 3 games. Just let that sink in.

  58. BradentuckeyBuc Says:

    Kansas City is 7-1…

    With a QB that has played 9 games…

    And the 31st ranked defense.

  59. stpetebucsfan Says:

    This guy observes that Fitz and JW have very similar styles…JW stronger arm…Fitz more accurate but they’re not that far apart.

    I do not disagree…they have similar results over their careers as well.

    The major difference I see is in the two men. One LIVES for football and wants to win desperately, so desperately I think it’s part of why he is choking…er..pressing in Derrick Brooks words.

    Fitz has his head totally together. He’s a very smart man and has five kids he seems to adore…a LOT more than football! I just think he’s found such great balance in his life he’s not a choker.

    According to teammates he comes into the huddle telling jokes.
    He’s loose…he lets other teammates poke fun at him…like DJAX dressing him up for that now famous post game presser.

    One guy is tight as a drum right now…the other is still loosey goosey.

  60. Resurrection of Duff Says:

    If we are out of the playoff race this month, RYAN GRIFFIN will play in DECEMBER.

  61. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Agree on the turnovers, it is my biggest beef with Jameis. Highest priority should be placed on getting a lead and keeping it. Having a chance to take the lead near the end of the game should not be necessary with better QB play.
    End the struggle in the redzone. Accuracy beyond the 20 yard line has been one of the keys to Fitz’s success. If that fails then according to Bajakian, then its just pitch and catch. Jameis needs to stop making it so complicated.

  62. Bob in Valrico Says:

    As for Koetter he may also be shown the door although I think Jameis not responding to coaching is something no coach should be saddled with. That is why I favor deactivating him also . The old song “I Just gotta get a message to You”
    applies here in the case of Jameis IMO. I am reminded of the game at FSU where Jameis was suspended for the first half. Jameis was suited up and on the sideline at kickoff. Coaches had to tell him to get off the field.

  63. Defense Rules Says:

    Bob … Sometimes an organization is left with NO CHOICE but to clean house. If after several years you’re not only NOT getting better but actually playing worse (which seems to be where we’re at as a TEAM), then ownership has every right to say “Time to burn it down & start over”. It’s THEIR money, not ours. And what I’m seeing isn’t good for business.

    Reality tells me we’re not gonna win the Super Bowl this year. Duh. What I’m hoping for at this point though is that this team can start playing GOOD ENOUGH for ownership to adequately evaluate what’s worth keeping and what’s not. Personally expecting someplace between a 5-11 and 6-10 season, BUT … ya never know, they MAY make it all the way to say 8-8. Stranger things have happened.

  64. Jameis Almighty! Says:

    Ryan Griffin should get the nod over Fitzpatrick. Crap coaching and personnel decisions all around. A whisper I heard from an unreliable but generally correct scoop source is that the Bucs are hiding Griffin and pulling Jameis so he doesn’t get hurt. With the way this organization is being run, it’s more than likely true.

  65. Jameis Almighty! Says:

    I’m hoping Jameis goes to the Raiders. Those fans would love the guy and Chucky would coach him up. #FreeJameis

  66. DalvinCookRules Says:

    part of the problem is the coaching. Winston’s talents only make sporadic appearances, and I assume that is by accident. He is being molded into being a certain type of QB that does not fit his skill set… fit your styles and schemes to the talents of your players, not the other way around. That was Mike Smith’s downfall.

  67. Tvan1011 Says:

    Blame the coaches, blame the coaches meanwhile winston has never and I repeat never had any touch on a deep pass. He isnt NFL caliber and it shows. It isnt the coaches it is a qb who had one good year in college on amazing team and rode that to a first overall pick.

  68. Walter Says:

    Where’s Brian Griese or Bruce Gradkowski when you need them?? Josh Johnson???

  69. TOM Says:

    Winston proves you don’t need a so called franchise QB to have a really good offense. Like the idea of Winston for Carr except that Carr has a huge contract. Also the Bucs need to start Griffin at some point to see what they got. Look at what the 49’s 3rd string QB did to the Raiders. I know its the Raiders. Just saying.

  70. Jameis Almighty! Says:

    Jameis is clearly an NFL QB. You have no idea what an NFL qb looks like.

  71. BucTown Says: