The Bucs, Fitz And YAC

November 16th, 2018

YAC issues.

A lot of folks who cannot wait for a moving van to back up to the house of America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, like to point to the terrible YAC yardage the Bucs have on Jameis’ perceived inaccuracy.

Well, that argument sure is awfully thin.

The good folks of NFL Films, collecting data for BSPN’s NFL Matchup, added up all the YAC yards (yards after catch) for quarterbacks in the NFL this year. The result after nine games? Fitz has one of the worst YAC stats in the NFL.

Only three quarterbacks have worse YAC stats than Fitz. That’s a rookie, a bum and an overrated, brittle, misplaced running back masquerading as a quarterback.

So let’s knock off the nonsense that the Bucs’ poor YAC yards were all the fault of Jameis, shall we?

88 Responses to “The Bucs, Fitz And YAC”

  1. Cgmaster27a Says:

    Damn joe, tell em how you really feel. Between the yac and the leagues worst redzone rating, the fitz fans are going to have to fine more excuses.

  2. Jeffbuc Says:

    Joe come on you are the One One who always says you can make stats look like whatever you want. Didn’t jameis start over 3 full games in all that he played. So it’s easy to say Ryan is bad at yac but he has 3 less games than the guys around him in that stat. A better statistic would be yac per fame average which would clearly take Ryan out of the bottom three. So quit with your jameis agenda. Your looking desperate using skewed statistics.

  3. FireMikeSmith_orDie Says:

    This guides the pointing finger to either the WRs themselves or the offensive philosophy. For example, if receivers are catching passes with their backs towards the defense, because of the type of plays being run, that doesn’t put them in the best position to get YAC.

    Ideally, you want the receiver’s body to be facing the defense and running downhill as he makes the catch. Desean Jackson’s skill set is perfectly suited to run these kind of routes, but you just don’t see that enough enough in this offensive scheme.

  4. Jeffbuc Says:

    A simple math breakdown would show he isn’t in the bottom. His yardage there divided by 7 games he played. To get his per game average. Then times that by ten the amount that all qbs have played while some even have played one more game since they haven’t had there bye. And he is at 1,152.85 in yac which is clearly not bottom 5. Probaly top 15 and throw in that no one respects are running game and plays there safeties and line backers deep it sounds like he is doing pretty good in the yac department.

  5. Jeffbuc Says:

    And one more note on your qb crush. Do you remember during the Cleveland game when we needed a first down and jameis slid and gave him self up a yard short of the first down sticks and we didn’t get the first down. I do very well. And do you see a 36 year old Ryan sliding out of bounds no I see him putting his body on the line every time he runs it to ensure he gets the most yards he can. Then he jumps up with his Cam Newton super man celebration. And me as a huge bucs fan can’t help but get super juiced that a 13 plus year bet is doing whatever it takes for his team. He could easily slide and no on would say a word. But he doesn’t because he is a true leader that shows he will do whatever it takes on the field. He played his ass off versus Washington. Got hit hard many times but never left anything on the field. I would take that guy every day of the week as my leader. Not a immature idiot who is throwing away his career because he can’t just take the easy pass and has to play hero on every passing play. But won’t sell his own body out at a crucial time in a game. I am a fan and that play stills ticks with me think what teammates who play there ass off think. So as for your agenda of begging for jameis just stop. The players don’t want him to be there qb. That should say all you need to know. He is like a ball hog in basketball that wins a couple games when he is hot. But loses a lot more when he keeps shooting threes an missing instead of passin to an open guy for an easy two point basket. Nobody likes playing with that guy.

  6. Im tired and 87 is right Says:

    Joe the truth is this fan base is going to run Jameis right out of town. True fans like us will have to endure the long path of just trying to find someone with Jameis talent. They don’t understand that great QBs are hard to come by in the NFL. I bet most of these so called fans are actually not originally from Florida and probably have a second team they root for. So they don’t really care what happens to the Bucs. I’m a season ticket holder who shows passion for this team. Who travels over 400 miles for each home game. Who yells so loud every game I lose my voice and can’t speak for days. I witnessed the last game the opposing teams fans being louder then ours and I thought to myself where are all of these so called Bucs fans rooting for their man Fitzpatrick? I was rooting for him because I just wanted a WIN! It didn’t happen and leads me back to why Winston gives us our best chance here on out and into the future. I could be wrong but something is special about this kid and I don’t think we have yet to reap the fruits he has to offer. Jameis has the passion this team needs right now and quite frankly is our last beacon of hope. With the proper coaching staff that sees that in Jameis, and backs him will help lead us to victory! Go Bucs!

  7. Fire Light Says:

    Bingo^^^ what he said. Bench Fitz! Play Jameis!

  8. Fire Light Says:

    Oh and! Firrrrrrrreeeeeeee Licht!

  9. Im tired and 87 is right Says:

    Oh and Jeffbuc you missed the part where Monken praises Jameis for being an outstanding teammate during the Washington game so don’t give me that Jameis doesn’t care about his team. We all know Jameis wants to Win badly for this team and he will do whatever it takes. He does want to fix his turnover issues reason why he understands he was benched. Jameis wants to come back better then ever and lead the Bucs to the Super Bowl. But maybe fans like you need to start supporting him because he is a Buccaneer!

  10. Jean Lafitte Says:

    Oh great so now we’re justifying Jameis’s weakness with the fact that Fitz is just as bad. smh

    Americas Back-up Quarterback ….he’s ok cause he’s as good as Fitz …c’mon

  11. THETRUTH Says:

    For Joe Winston does no wrong ,

    Jeffbuc: Thank u for pointing out the flaw in numbers.

    Joe forgers how many times Buc WR throw their hands in air after. Jamie’s throws ball 10 yards past them or DJ has to wait for the ball that never makes it to him

    The Bucs future QB is not in roster as of yet

  12. Geno Says:

    Well Joe you are apparently either not good at math or do not know how to make your points. The buc’s have played 9 games. Fitz has played 5 full games and 1/2 of 2 games. That is essentially 6 games played. His receivers have 801 YAC in those games or an average of 133.5 per game.

    Jameis has played 2 full games and 1/2 of 2 games for essentially 3 games played. His receivers have 337 YAC. That is 112.33 a game.

    So yes for the Fitz fans, that would support that he may be a little more accurate than Jameis.

    P.S. Stafford who is #10 on this list is at 141 YAC per game. So 133 is not one of the worst in the NFL.

    Ouch you are burned again by one of your readers.

  13. Alaskan Abdominal Snowman Says:

    I’m tried and 87 is right…dude you are spot on, well said.

  14. DB55 Says:


    How come fitz missed 3 games, was he hurt?

  15. Buc-n-Idaho Says:

    You don’t need YAC or any other stats to see what’s plain as day. Winston is BY FAR our best and in fact only sensible option!!! Finally some posters with football intelligence!! And still many without!!!

  16. WalkdaPlank Says:

    Joe likes to point out that numbers can be skewed to try and make a point.

    Looks like Joe seems to love doing the same.

    Fitzpatrick missed 3 games watching Jameis throw to the other team and losing and barely beating the freaking Browns in the Toilet Bowl. Yet the guys you are comparing his YAC numbers to have played all their teams games this season. Some haven’t even had a bye yet.

  17. WalkdaPlank Says:

    I actually believe Jameis should be starting just so he can solidly his place and prove once and for all that he is NOT the answer at QB. And if he plays lights out and gets an extension then I’m all for it as that means the Bucs are probably doing well too.

    But this whining about Winston is getting ridiculous. What have you guys seen that the rest of us haven’t? This guy is not a franchise QB.

  18. Rod Munch Says:

    I’m a Winston backer but I’m not sure what this stat shows since Fitz didn’t play in 3 games, so his YAC would be lower than people that played 3 additional games. You’d have to look at the average YAC and I really don’t see an issue there with Fitz as he does a pretty decent job of hitting guys in stride.

    Anywho I don’t think this is anything of note.

    What is of note is that Fitz is 0-4 in last 4 starts.

  19. Jarod Says:

    I really can not for the life of me figure out why most of you still think name is is the man that’s getting a bad wrap including you Joe ! Let’s start one more time from the beginning shall we…he is a liar , he is a crotch grabber & don’t waste your time telling me allegedly because one that yells at school just grab her in the p#$$y is not someone who would never do what he is accused of, some of his own team mates don’t want to play with him , his coach don’t want him , he is a fake leader & now let’s get to the on field stuff , he can not beat even bad defences , he can’t read a defence, he stares down wr’ s tipping the defence , he over throws guys that are tall enough to play in the NBA, and so on…the boy is just dumb as they come & there is no way in hell he should get 20 mil from the owners ! I can not wait until they clean house and our new guys find our real QB of the future…he is out there and his name is not jameis can’t win-son

  20. Loyaltotheend Says:

    @Geno great points

    Confirmation bias at its worst

  21. Ludicrous Speed Says:

    Well, it sure looks now like your arguments to prop up your ward are wearing awfully thin. I debunked a fallacious, cherry-picking attempt you made in a previous column, and now in the words of Ronald Reagan, “There you go again.”

    A few folks came closer than you, but still missed the mark. The fact is that Fitz has played 5 full games, 1 half of another and 1 quarter of another for a total of 23 quarters, or 5 3/4 games. By contrast Mahomes, Goff and Brady have all played 10 full games, which means that Fitz has played slightly more than HALF of what they’ve played. That’s a HUGE discrepancy in anybody’s book (except yours, apparently).

    What this means is that when you pro-rate properly, Fitz’s ACTUAL YAC is 139.3 yds/game, which, as it happens, falls right between Goff’s 144.6 yrs/game and Brady’s 137.2 yrs/game right at the top of that chart between some pretty impressive company. (I wonder how far below the bottom of that list Winston is)

    This means one of two things:

    Either you weren’t smart enough to figure this out for yourself (which I tend to doubt, as I believe that one needs to be fairly bright in order to exercise the entrepreneurial skill necessary to invent and sustain this enterprise you’ve created).

    Or, you have a pretty low opinion of the collective intellect of your general readership, considering a good number of them to be little more than “useful idiots,” easily swayed into parroting a message of disinformation.

  22. Gofortheface30 Says:

    “Jameis perceived inaccuracy.” – are you high, drunk or both? It’s not perceived, it’s real FSU fan boy

    Ryan Fitzpatrick has played in 3 less games than everyone on that list smart guy. This is seriously insulting to anyone with a half a brain

  23. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    By these standards…..Le’veon Bell is the worst RB in the NFL….he’s actually gained no yards this year.

  24. OneBuc55 Says:

    For the guys saying Fits played in three less games than everyone else has to keep in mind that those numbers are based on an average so it doesn’t matter how many games he’s played…

    We need to stop BS’ing and get Fitztragic outta there and get America’s Most wanted QB” Jameis Winston back under center…only he can lead this band of Misfits…


  25. Gobucsgo Says:

    Joe I never comment, but this was really a ridiculous article. I think Winston should be starting just so to the fact that Fitz isn’t the future, andWinstob still may be. I think this is completely unfair to fitz as he has played 3 full less games then those other QBs, would put his numbers in top half. It’s just a very unintelligent post

  26. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Im tired and 87 is right for the win.

    Also, YAC is one of the dumbest things to hold against a QB. Yes, ball placement matters, but the rest of it is all on the receiver and the defense. A QB could put the ball in the perfect spot and still get no YAC.defense

    Anyone using YAC to make a QB look good or bad is just trying to create useless information.

  27. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    I hate it when my tablet inserts a word when I line break…

  28. Dewey Selmon Says:

    It is Dirks vertical offense, a 15 yard out gives a CB a chance to get to a WR and make a tackle as the WR catches it. A west coast offense slant is a 3 yard pass and 12 yards YAC before a tackle. Both plays gain 15 yards, just different ways to get that 15.

  29. Bucsfanman Says:

    I knew there was a reason I hated math!

  30. El Buco Realisto Says:

    Its sad that joe has to try and twist numbers to manufacture an argument that the back-up QB fitz is doing the same thing that the supposed franchise qb!!!!

    funny how joe did not post what jw3 yac numbers were!!!!!!!

    Joe does not get that in every category that it is a tie or the supposed franchise is either equal or lesser to the backup QB!!!!!! That just mean the Bucs have no franchise qb!!!!!!!

    And for NFL teams, they either have a franchise QB or they are looking for a franchise qb!!!!!!!!!!! And the Bucs are looking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  31. Jim Says:

    But you still want the Bucs to win Sunday, right Joe? ‘Cause your focus recently is all about denigrating Fitzpatrick, the Bucs quarterback…

  32. K_Bassuka Says:

    The title it’s misleading Joe, it should read “The Bucs, Fitz and Suck” instead.

  33. Not there yet Says:

    You guys are extremely pathetic and now debating stats from nfl films guys about Fitz. If it came out about Winston you would be up in arms ready to run the guy out of town

    The part of all that that makes you look stupid is the bucs lead the league in terms of passing yards per game because they can’t run the ball so how can you forget that point?

  34. rob Says:

    What a crap article. If you examine the stats, and assume Fitz played the full season, he would be at the top. This is no ammo for turnover machine to start again.

  35. LakeLand Says:

    The Bucs are 17th in YAC as a team

    That’s not bad
    Giving the fact that they don’t throw to their RB often

  36. Defense Rules Says:

    @TheTruth … “The Bucs future QB is not in roster as of yet.”

    Thank you Truth for summarizing what every Bucs’ fan should recognize as being quite obvious at this point. Fitz is NOT a franchise QB … why even debate it. But he is a decent backup QB and an ‘interim solution’ who’ll help the Glazers achieve their goals. Jameis screwed the pooch (several times) and it should be becoming more & more obvious to this fanbase that the Glazers don’t view him as being the ‘solution’ to our QB woes any longer (if they did, he’d be playing right now instead of sitting on the bench healthy).

    They’re tanking the season … and they don’t want Jameis screwing it up. They’re shooting for a Top-5 draft pick; MIGHT be a new QB, might not. (Bucs have more NEEDS than ‘Carter has liver pills’ as they used to say). It’s for sure we’re not going anywhere with this fine mess we now find ourselves in.

  37. Bucsfanman Says:

    K_Bassuka- I wasn’t ignoring your post from yesterday. Still, I think that Fitz is the least of our worries.

  38. K_Bassuka Says:

    Suckpatrick has single handedly infected and nearly/fully destroyed the careers of Bulger, Palmer(lucky enough to find a cure away from him), Trent Edwards, Brad Smith, Jake Locker, Keenum(found cure), Ryan Mallett, Geno Smith, and now Jameis.

    Regardless of the QB that we start next year, if Suckpatrick it’s the QB he will find a way to mess him up. But he went to Harvard 🙄.

  39. Bucsfanman Says:

    That’s a heck of a leap K_Bass! Especially considering that Jameis is pretty much the same guy from before we acquired Fitz.
    You must be a former Buffalo fan or something. I don’t understand the hate. Is it the beard?!
    7th rounder out of Hah-vard. What were your expectations? He’s no Brady but he must be doing something right to have been in the league so long. He could be the next Vinny Testaverde and play another 5-6 years. LOL! Wouldn’t that be a kick in the pants?!

  40. D-Rome Says:

    Goodness gracious. The fact of the matter is that we’ve all seen Jay-Miss play in 49 games. All questions about Jay-Miss have been answered. There is no reason to continue to play him and risk injury. He is not the future of this team. Let it go.

  41. SteveK Says:

    Wrong again, Jameis Honks!

    Fitz is superior to Jameis, and that is a fact. Stats, analytics, and the GD eye test all say so.


    LOL! You mean Fitz “ruined” the career for underachieving QBs? And, you have the misguided opinion that Fitz ruined Jameis’ career.

    You’re a clown! Jameis ruined his own career with refusing to check theball down and being unable to behave himself off the field. To clarify any further: Jameis lies to his teammates about it.

    Jameis is not better tha Fitz, and the stats provided by this Joe fall in line with the ScuttleBucs Joe aka Jameis apologist #1.

  42. Bucsfanman Says:

    D-Rome- It should be fairly obvious to anyone with common sense that the Bucs have moved on from Jameis, otherwise, he’d be starting.

  43. Troy Says:

    I want Jameis to play, but the YAC thing is completely irrelevant. Just look at where the teams are at. There’s both good and bad teams at both ends of the spectrum here. All I care about is wins.

  44. bradinator Says:

    I noticed Russell Wilson as 5th worst in that stat. Someone tell me, with a straight face, that you would rather Jameis or Fitz instead of Russell Wilson. Our QB question is moot, Joe. Here’s the question you should be thinking..there are 31 other NFL teams, name 5 that would give Jameis the starting nod next season. The Giants, maybe Denver, and maybe the Raiders, and Miami. The others already have established QBs or 1st rounders from last year (Jets, Arizona, Bills). That should tell you everything you need to know. Someone will take a flier on him, NO ONE should pay him $20 mill for next season. I get he’s a hard worker and good teammate but so was Josh McKown. If he is going to get his career going again, for his own good, it shouldn’t be here.

  45. Cobraboy Says:

    What a pile of hot garbage. sheesh…talk about spin!

    Fitzpatrick has played in 5.5 games to get those 801 YAC’s.

    If you take the above YAC and extrapolate form those 5.5 games, the guy would be over 1300, which would be MORE THAN DREW BREES!

    I know: the maths be hard.

  46. JIMMY T Says:

    All u Jameis haters amaze me! I say Haters because this has nothing to do with football, it’s 100% about HATE plain & simple. If a real coach like Jim Harbaugh or Bruce Arians took over next year & I hope it happens BOTH if them would NOT take the job UNLESS Jameis was here! He’s 24 years old and he has been saddled with the pressure of being a SAVIOR for a bad ORG. I’m not going to go over yr by yr stats again because it doesn’t matter to u all. All I know is if the BUCS do the right thing & bring either one of those coaches here the staff will be 100 times better, we will have a real D & a balanced offense w Jameis leading the way!

  47. Cobraboy Says:

    @bradinator: no way Gruden would want Winston. Gruden gets The Vapors over turnovers. There is NOTHING Gruden hates more.

    Winston has earned the title of America’s Turnover Machine. Fact is, Fitzpatrick’s track record isn’t much better.

    I want to see what Ryan Griffin has under live fire.

  48. ben Says:

    Joe.. look at Fitz qb nfl rating !!

  49. K_Bassuka Says:

    I know there are other important things, but we won’t be able to build a winner we we don’t fix our QB issues.

  50. JIMMY T Says:

    Oh yeah and Cohraboy, who gives a SPIT about the MATH? All I know is FITZ SUCKED last week and lost the GAME! 3 points ok 9 points if we have a kicker! And don’t make an excuse for Evans drop it was a crappy pass. How did that stupid LATERAL work out or the fumble on the 3 yard line. We all forget the Steelers game that FITZ lost w a PATHETIC first half! We were happy to be 2-1 but THAT GAME was a killer and FITZ BLEW IT. How about the crappy first half against PANTHERS. Another crippling pick led to an easy TD. When a team like the Steelers & Panthers are up 30-10 & 35-7 in the first half THEY TAKE THEIR FOOT OFF THE GAS. Garbage yards, those games were OVER at halftime! FITZ is JUST good enough to get u beat

  51. Cobraboy Says:

    @ JimmyT: what kind of polish do you use to buff out Winston’s dingleberries?

  52. JIMMY T Says:

    Again what’s your point? WHO CARES what Gruden would want? U act like he hangs the moon! ENOUGH we get it u HATE Jameis, MOVE ON for once

  53. JIMMY T Says:

    The same ones u use for IDIOT FITZ

  54. Bucsfanman Says:

    K_Bass- No doubt dude! It’s been a mess for a long time now. The thing about this organization that bothers me is that they have ‘sold out’ on this passing league thing to the point where they have completely ignored the run-game. Remember Mark Sanchez? Dude still sucks but came to a team that knew how to protect their QB….a run-game.
    Running the football is not a ‘dinosaur’! It is essential to winning football. You can take a guy like Jameis and give him a run-game and you’d probably do OK. But, when you ask a guy who has a propensity for risk to throw the ball 35+ times a game you are asking for trouble.
    Secondly, this notion that you have to throw yourself from behind is ridiculous. Down by 30 you don’t abandon the run-game. All that does is put more pressure on an already awful defense. Play balanced football and hope you get lucky. Hurling the ball is just more opportunity for your opponent to take it away.
    I feel like these things are Football 101 yet, somehow we ignore them and expect good results.
    Jameis is Jameis. I think if he had a running game it would be different. It’s not rocket science.
    It will truly be interesting to see what the next regime chooses to do. Will they carry on the willful ignoring of sound fundamental football? It’s a Bucs fan’s life!

  55. JIMMY T Says:

    I don’t want Jameis wining elsewhere! Bring in a good coach, if he doesn’t want Jameis fine BUT I think a successful NFL coach would love to have him. Now if he doesn’t perform great move on But all I know is in Jameis first start against Falcons he was spot on! 2 picks that amounted to nothing. When your offense is a throw it down the field offense it does lead to turnovers. Jameis was asked w a 2 TD LEAD to drop back 62 FREAKING times against the browns yet no one talks about that stupid game plan. Yes Jameis stunk against CINCY but there is no way that game defines him. Yeah u wake up in CINCY and u read that DJAX WANTS a trade. I want to see more, I am not at a point where I want another team to have a 24 year old for the next 12 years

  56. Cobraboy Says:

    LOL @ JimmyT’s meltdown.

  57. Geno Says:

    Back to this article.
    I have argued that Winston is better than Fitz but Joe did not prove it with his alleged point from this article. So let’s give blame on this article
    to where it starts. Joe was wrong again!

    To troll the Winston lovers:

    Fitz is a less than average quarterback. The guys he has replaced in his career based upon performance are:

    Marc Bulger – St Louis Rams
    Trent Edwards – Buffalo Bills
    Jake Locker – Tennessee Titans
    Matt Schab – Houston Texans
    Geno Smith – New York Jets
    Jameis Winston – Tampa Bay Bucs

  58. JIMMY T Says:

    No melt down for me Cobra nope! Just stating Facts

  59. Bucsfanman Says:

    Geno- Fake news! It’s been whispered that Jameis willfully gave his starting job to Fitzy over a lost bet that Jameis could grow a beard longer than Fitz.
    True story!

  60. Cobraboy Says:

    BTW: It’s not that I am a Fitzpatrick fan. He’s a fantastic #2, and the Bucs are blessed to have him in that role.

    I am just 100% over all the crap that goes along with America’s Turnover Machine.

    I felt the same way about Testaverde and Dilfer, and could care less what kind of a career they had elsewhere, I was tired of them as Bucs and have *zero* regrets about them leaving. Young doesn’t count because he never wanted to be a Buc in the first place, and Doug Williams was an entirely different situation and ownership.

    I was terminally tired of Dungy. “We just weren’t in sync” got repetitive and lame.

    And it’s not just Winston I’m tired of. There are several other players on this team about which I have the same opinion, almost all on the defense.

    While I understand casual fans saying “but but but he’s 24 and could be super good” there is another side of that coin: if you keep the guy and sign him to a long-term extension at current QB prices, what happens if he flames out? What if does another Uber? What if he does not change in the future what he has done in the past?

    If you want to talk about long-term impact, take off your I Am A Winston FanBoy hat and consider a different perspective:

    1) We have four years of work in which to judge Jameis Winston. To put it mildly, he has been wildly inconsistent on the field and an embarrassment off the field, both including his college time.

    2) The Bucs exercised his 5th-year option after he swore the Uber complaints were false and before the NFL investigation stated the complaint was credible. He lied to his teammates and the Glazers.

    3) The only reason a team would exercise the 5th-year option is in anticipation of signing a player to a long-term dealio. It makes *zero* sense to exercise that option and let a player walk.

    4) The NFL suspended Winston, hurting the team.

    5) Winston came back and performed horribly, one of the worst 3.5 game performances by any QB in the NFL. That is a FACT.

    6) It makes *zero* business sense to bring Winston back to use the 5th-year option as a “prove it” year. If he performs poorly, you just paid $21 million for a worthless load of manure and STILL have a QB problem.

    7) If he performs well in the 5th-year, he is still a free agent and would test the free market possibly driving up the price for the Bucs.

    8) But if is signed to a long-term deal, no matter when, and performs in the future as his track record suggests he will play in the future, then the Bucs have a ton of wasted money and dead cap space.

    9) The probability of Winston becoming a superstar QB in the future is speculation and Fanboiism at best. There is nothing in his past that suggests he will mature into one. He has never in his life shown much maturity. That’s just who he is.

    There is little upside to the situation and a ton of downside.

    One issue is IF the Bucs bring back Winston in 2019, would Ryan Fitzpatrick want to stay with the Bucs as the back-up? Why would he want to? He has had an amazing season as a back up statistically—under the SAME coaching as Winston, but against far better defences—and is worth a helluva lot more than his current paycheck. Hell, there are teams on which he could start.

    I could be wrong, but I am sceptical the Bucs will make Winston their high-paid future no matter who the front office and coaches are.

    Winston could simply be a talented guy with judgement issues in all areas of his life, on and off the field. He’s not the first talented but underachieving QB who may earn the “Coach Killer” label.

    I’m not even sure the locker room cares much about the guy. He’s had his shot and blew it.

    I’m all for the Bucs letting Winston go, whether a trade or release (although he could have some trade value), along with a bunch of other high-priced underachievers. I could save the team $45-55 million in cap space tomorrow that could be well spent building the defense, because the only problem with this team is NOT the QB, not the offensive coaching, it’s a horrible defense.

  61. JIMMY T Says:

    Jameis is 10 million than those QBS, unfortunately and 100% Jameis fault he was suspended so the pre season in which he was outstanding goes out the window and no matter how much work was put in during the suspension it killed all the momentum. So Jameis comes back and on a short week KOETTER throws him cold into the Chicago game in the 2nd half down 38-3. To me that made no sense but whatever his first start was outstanding against Falcons, 2nd start a Win over browns I must have been watching a different game because to me Jameis did a great job, drove them to a winning FG in REG & kicker misses game winner. 63 dropbacks in that game and one pick in REG and one in OT Yet the whole week AFTER THE WIN all that is talked about were the two meaningless picks. So to me Jameis had one horrible game and it makes zero sense after the debacle at home against skins that FITZ is still starting. Stupid decision!

  62. SteveK Says:

    Well said cobra boy!

    I sat after watching the Bucs hardcore when I was 9 in 1994. I love your explanation of our older QBs.

    I agree with you regarding Jameis. I am not anti-Jameis, but he screwed my favorite team with his selfish stupidity, and during that 3 week suspension Jameis’ play regressed. He came back and was pretty bad, turning the hall over at an alarming rate.

    I love looking at thinks objectively, and our QB position is a question mark. I don’t Think Fitz will be a long term answer, but he’s for damn sure the best QB on our roster today. Simple as that.

    And will fans like KBassuka, and others PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE NEVER say Fitz’s presence ruined Jameis. Jameis ruined Jameis with his dumbasserery off the field, carelessness with the ball on the field, and for LYING TO BUCS NATION last year regarding Uber.

    Jameis might have very well cost the regime their jobs with his antics. You can’t soend a #1 overall pick on a QB for him not to be a franchise player by year 4.

  63. SteveK Says:

    Anyone know where the ScuttleBucs podcast went? Did they pack up their radio and go home because Jameis isn’t playing? I know they are Tallahassee, FL guys, but they refused to look at Winston objectively, and IMHO their podcast was disbanded because they no longer could spin the BS.

    We need truth!

  64. SteveK Says:

    I agree with you cobra boy!

  65. Jmarkbuc Says:

    You’re tired 87 and you’re wrong….

    “Joe the truth is this fan base is going to run Jameis right out of town.”

    The fans aren’t gonna do don’t own the team. If it’s not obvious that the Glazers don’t really care what the fans think, you haven’t been a Bucs fan that long.

    “True fans like us will have to endure the long path of just trying to find someone with Jameis talent.”

    I’ve been a fan from the beginning, season tkt holder, yadda, yadda, and I’m sorry but I still don’t see this Devine talent that Jameis has….

    “They don’t understand that great QBs are hard to come by in the NFL.”

    And Busts are a dime a dozen

    “I bet most of these so called fans are actually not originally from Florida and probably have a second team they root for. So they don’t really care what happens to the Bucs.”

    The Bucs have been my only team in my lifetime…I actually moved AWAY and they are still my team…kind of the inverse of your theorem…

    “I could be wrong but something is special about this kid and I don’t think we have yet to reap the fruits he has to offer. Jameis has the passion this team needs right now and quite frankly is our last beacon of hope.”

    Oh I firmly believe there is something “Special” about him, but if he’s our last beacon of hope, then sell the team now……

  66. SteveK Says:

    Where is the ScuttleBucs podcast? Is it possible that they took their radio and went home bc they could no longer sound Jameis’ play/trajectory?

    It saddens me to see ppl fold up shop bc of tough times. It figures the first sign of adversity regarding their opinions that they go silent.

    It saddens me that Buc Fans don’t get accountability from the players, or FSU honks running podcasts.

  67. SteveK Says:


    Great reply. Same here. Moved away, love these Bucs like family. Hate them like family lol.

    Is it possible that a segment of dans are Jameis first, and not team first? That’s what I think.

  68. Joe Says:

    Anyone know where the ScuttleBucs podcast went?

    The truth? Like anyone else, they didn’t want to work for free and needed a sponsor. Tom Lang still does the JoeBoltsFan pod weekly seen here on

    If you know someone with an open checkbook willing to sponsor Jeff and Tom, they’d fire up “ScuttleBucs” in a matter of hours.

  69. SteveK Says:

    To go with ScuttleBucs, anyone seen “NFLNUT”? Did he take his JBF screen name and go home? Funny that they were all over defending Jameis on and off the field, only to see times get tough and they go away.

    At least Rod Munch still comes out to play and comments. I disgaree 90% of the time with his take, but I’d be damned if I didn’t look forward to this debate.

    Joes, sorry we give you crap, but not sorry bc one Joen is a Jameis Honk

  70. SteveK Says:


    My apologies and thanks for the answer regarding Scuttle Bucs! I listened to every episode and enjoyed the debate, even though I mostly disgaree.

    Thank you,


  71. SteveK Says:

    I wish 620 WDAE would wake up and bring Joe’s back, sponsor podcast, etc.

    They sell out the 9-12pm hours to Dan Patrick each day. Why not give the Joe’s a daily show with Ira? That would be awesome.

  72. Jim Says:

    Hey Jimmy, here’s what Bucs coach Monken has to say about it: “Statistically, Fitzpatrick has been the better quarterback. He has completed 67.1 percent of this passes for 2,199 yards with 17 touchdowns and nine interceptions in about 75 more pass attempts. Winston is completing 64.9 percent of his passes for 1,181 with six TDs and 11 INTs.”

    But what does he know, right? Just another “Hater”…

  73. SteveK Says:


    Facts, stats, eye test, execution, and off field behavior all trend towards Fitz>Jameis.

    Jameis has the draft status, young age, but I don’t know if the potential will ever be realized. In 49 games it looks like a resounding no.

  74. Jean Lafitte Says:

    Say anything negative about Jameis and you’re dubbed an idiot, a hater, or a racist. This is the mind set of the people who defend him because of his color rather than his actual ability. Before you call me names know that my @ss is as black as ebony. I have a degree in social economics, and I despise the use of the word hate to describe a person of whom you disagree. Ginger Joe seems to pull that card often when describing fans that aren’t enamored with Jameis. For all the bad things being said about Fitz remember this, you’re comparing Jameis to Fitz. So if Fitz sucks doesn’t that mean Jameis sucks as well? Another thing to ponder for the ones who are denial, “Who is now the career backup’s backup?

  75. Joe Says:

    My apologies and thanks for the answer regarding Scuttle Bucs! I listened to every episode and enjoyed the debate, even though I mostly disgaree.

    That’s a great compliment. Thank you. Will pass that along to Jeff and Tom.

    No need to apologize man.

  76. Lord Cornelius Says:

    Not shocked at all.

    A bunch of dumb fans that pointed this was on Winston – well for years we have said it’s Koetter’s system and offensive design.

    Looks like we were exactly right. Deep vertical offense in what has become a quick passing NFL.

    So @REalist – this has nothing to do with defending WInston. It’s an indictment of the coach. The same coach who for 7 years consistently does not match his yardage with scoring. On average top 5-10 in yardage but barely average in scoring.

    The writings on the wall. Kobe has been right about Koetter’s playcalling the whole time. I was on board last year with the same assessment.

    Also agree with both you / kobe that Licht needs to go. A coaching change without a GM change seems unacceptable. Even if we keep Winston which I definitely think we should.

    He’s 24 years old and put up prety damn good #’s despite being in one of the worst high difficulty offensive systems in the NFL with no run game and a bottom 3 defense every year.

  77. DBS Says:

    The entire problem begins with the “But all we need is”. Then Drafting “The Savior”. Dressing him up in the Jesus garb complete with crown. Calling him “The Face Of The Franchise”. Only to find out that was not all true. He is not Jesus. Not God. Can’t do it by himself. And is an averave QB not elete. Now eveyone that was on that bandwagon has to save face. Or try to. He turned out Not to be what people thought he was going to be.

  78. Cobraboy Says:


    When that vertical passing game was working everybody loved it.

    The Bucs passing game is an envy of the NFL world.

    There is little wrong with this offense. Yeah, I want a better running game too. But this team’s real problem, a problem that has directly affects the W & L’s much, much more than the offense, rests on the pathetic, horrendous defense and placekicking game. If those two games are even average, this team is 7-2 or 6-3.

  79. T REX Says:

    Wait Fitz isn’t very good? Winston sucks too? Burn it down.

  80. Cobraboy Says:

    For the Winston Fanbois: maybe he’s get inducted into the Hall of Really Good But Inconsistent Underachievers one day…

  81. SteveK Says:

    Jean Lafitte, Lord Corn,

    Great posts!

    Jameis and Fitz should be judged on their game tape, period.

    And, it would be asinine to boot Koetter and keep Licht.

    IMHO, the priority of blame:

    1. Licht- worse than Dominik after this year, and drafts are meh. Free agency is god awful.

    2. Jameis: lied to team, suspended, not playing like a franchise QB and got benched.

    3. Koetter: the man should have fired Mike Smith before this season. That is his fault. However, what coach can compete in the NFCS with the 4th best QBs, paired with the WORST kicking game and defense in the league.

    This issue is mostly on Licht, and if we suck the rest of the year we will need need a new triumvirate: GM, HC, QB.

  82. bradinator Says:

    I’m pretty much with Cobraboy (is the name a Hudson ref?) . I don’t hate Winston. I’ve got a closet full of Winston t-shirts, no mean feat since I live in Denver. I thought he was a winner after that first season. I still believed in season 2. Now it’s season 4 and there is no progression in his play. Whether that’s coaching or scheme, I can’t say. As evidenced last week when koetter took the play calling over again, there seems to be a problem. With monken calling the plays it certainly looks better. Gets to a point when you start wondering if actual game decisions are going to catch up with “potential”. There will be a coaching change here and a change of system. Anybody think Jameis will improve dramatically while learning a new system? A $20 million improvement? That pirate ship has sailed folks. That said, No QB throughout time and space could overcome this eye bleeding inducing Defense. Wow. Heck, if we played like the #25 defense in the league we might have at least won two more games. Playing like the ’76 Bucs, not so much.

  83. ATrain Says:

    What is the argument???

    Jamies is better than the bench player

    Why is Jamies not compared to the other elite QBs
    Not a bench player

    Is there anyone on here who thinks Fitz is elite or the QB of the future

    I hope not

    But Damn Jamies isn’t getting it done PERIOD

    You can’t put together any stats to help that

    Well he’s better than Fitz

    OK so please raise your standards for Jamies



  84. D1 Says:

    Bradinator, Cobra boy, Jean Laffite, Steve K,

    The 4 Horsemen of the Winston Apocalypse.

  85. Cobraboy Says:

    @D1: I am not anti-Winsrton at all.

    I’m just done with him based on his on and off-field performance.

    I was happy when he was drafted, and thought after his rook season he was going to be monster. He had not progressed in two years and he’s had elite weapons and a GM & Coach who spent money and draft choices on an offense like a drunken, horny sailor on shore leave.

    I’m not sure he is coachable. Why? He wasn’t in college. Ask his head coach. Hell, look at his meltdown in the Fiesta Bowl.

    He has admitted he intentionally defied his coach’s play calls and does what he wants.

    You think his bragging about feeding Evans last game last season won him any praise from his coach or front office? Had Winston followed the coaches calls, the Bucs would have ended up 4-12 and picked 4th in the draft instead of 7th. Want to know who was available at #4? Denzel Ward, Bradley Chubb and Quenton Nelson. You think the Bucs could have used any of those three more than what they got. Vita Vea and M.J. Stewart. Is that tradeoff worth Mike Evans barely getting 1,000 yards?

    I like Vita Vea, but he is no Denzel Ward, Bradley Chubb or (my preferred pick) Quenton Nelson?

    Can you imagine Nelson at RG instead of that immobile toadstool Benenoch? How about the 8 sacks Chubb has at DE? How about the 3 int’s and 2 fumble recoveries like Ward? Two of those guys, Chubb and Ward, are serious DRoY candidates, and many think Nelson is already the best OG in football.

    So before anyone yak-yak-yaks about the awesomeness of “America’s Quarterback” Winston, take a peek at how he has actually damaged the Bucs with his play and attitude.

    Great. Evans gets 1001 yards. B.F.D. Do you think Evans would trade that silly, inconsequential record for any of those three guys? How about ANY of Winston’s teammates, coaches or front office?

    And that is just ONE of his boneheaded moves.

  86. Captain Dan Lawrence Says:

    I can think of one QB who has a worse YAC!!!

  87. Cobraboy Says:

    Captain Dan Lawrence Says:

    I can think of one QB who has a worse YAC!!!

    Not if you count yards after INT… 😉

  88. Not Americas QB Says:

    That was a weak attempt Joe. Add in the games he missed he would be much higher.