4-7 Record Doesn’t Match

November 26th, 2018

Among the 10 teams that have scored the most points this season in the National Football League, every single one has a winning record except one.

That’s right. Welcome to the freak show known as your Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

With scant help from their defense, the Bucs are averaging 26.7 points per game. The eight teams averaging more all have more wins than losses. The team right behind them, the Panthers checks in with a 6-5 record and 26.1 points per game. Like the Bucs until two weeks ago, the Panthers would have more if their kicking game wasn’t falling apart.

This is a very strange Bucs team, one featuring the best offense in franchise history. If the scoring continues and a commensurate share of winning appears, it will be interesting to see how Team Glazer approaches 2019.

No, Joe doesn’t think Dirk Koetter will survive, but a thriving offense might have ownership very selective in how it approaches the next crew of decision-makers at One Buc Palace.

61 Responses to “4-7 Record Doesn’t Match”

  1. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    The reason we are 4-7 is because of the turnovers. It’s really very simple. I know the defense has been horrible (in particular the secondary), but you can’t turn the ball over this many times and expect to win.

  2. Waterboy Says:

    Koetter should’ve addressed the defense after last season. He’s probably better suited as an OC where he’s not responsible to make those types of decisions.

  3. AlteredEgo Says:

    Free clue… Mr Magoo’s……see turnovers

  4. stpetebucsfan Says:

    This season started down the crapper that night in Arizona.
    People can say but Fitz won 2 of those first three…but until yesterday JW played like a dog. I find it hard to believe that the suspension…all the PR stuff…did not effect JW. I find it hard to believe that watching Fitz go crazy those first two games didn’t also get in JW’s head a bit. And so Koetter and Licht likely lose their jobs for hanging out blind blackout drunk with two losers…one a convicted rapist…oh but wait…it wasn’t Koetter and Licht who did that. They’ll simply be the collateral damage.

    Whatever…JW had his best game of the season yesterday…not in terms of yards and TD’s but in terms of what his game has been sorely missing…ball security. I remember the Philly game a few years back when JW went off big time….but yesterday may have been the best overall performance for JW in a Buc’s uniform.

    Prediction. This board is going to go crazy as will the media if the Bucs use this game to turn around their season and finish 8-8. JW stays…Koetter/Licht?

    Yesterday it seemed the culture had changed….if that continues through the remainder of the season there will be some tough choices coming up.

  5. Eric Says:

    If he were to get to 7 wins he may save his job. A two win improvement under some difficult circumstances would at least give him an argument. I can remember when the bucs scoring 27 points was unheard of.

    if JW keeps up his excellent play from yesterday in the last five.

    A tall order but he is still alive, and would have been deader than a door nail had they not won Sunday.

    Id like to see more patience with the running game. That is so helpful in keeping the dogs off JW.

  6. LakeLand Says:

    Too many offensive turnovers

    The Bucs offense has over twice as many turnovers
    Than the other Top-10 scoring teams
    Except for the Colts, they have 12 more than the Colts

    They also score a lot of points, while trailing by 3-4 scores

  7. LakeLand Says:

    Every Top-10 scoring offense has a plus ratio in turnovers
    Except for the Bucs

    The Bucs has a -21 turnover ratio
    The next lowest is the Colts at +3

  8. Dapostman Says:


    Turnovers are a two way street. How many have the Bucs defense created? You never seem to address this issue.

  9. Larry Says:

    Great win but let’s remember: SF was a 2/8 team. Made all kicks with 0 turnovers. That’s how you win games. This is one game though. Let’s see if Winston reverts back to his old self with turnovers and bad decision making. Difficult for a tiger to change it’s stripes. Can’t make a zebra out of an elephant. Let’s hope he has learned his lessons.

  10. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:

    We played like a 8-3 team yesterday, so happy 🙂

  11. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:

    Change in culture starts with winning!!!

  12. JabooBuc Says:

    pretty easy really. TB is last in TO margin. Of the top 10 scoring offenses, only Tampa and Pitt have a negative TO margin. The other 8 teams all rank in the top 14 in TO margin and all are on the plus side.

    Moreover, TB (-1.9) is more than double every other team in the league other than San Fran (-1.5) and Jax (-1.0). Let that stat sink in. That’s two additional possessions per team. Also, this stat doesn’t count the missed FG’s which are also essentially TO’s.

    If this team can simply play on the positive side of the TO margin, then i think you have a winning football team.

  13. JabooBuc Says:

    Lakeland beat me to it but great minds think alike.

  14. Fun Guy Says:

    Colts have TWENTY takeaways, 11 interceptions to offset Luck’s 11 picks. Bucs only have EIGHT total takeaways and only three picks (one came yesterday). QB play hasn’t been hall of fame, but when you have to throw down the field constantly to make up for a TERRIBLE defense, you are going to have more picks as a result.

  15. Andrew Says:

    Jason Licht should be first to go.

  16. LakeLand Says:


    Thanks for the post

    I had completely forgot about Pittsburgh, they also has a negative turnover ratio

  17. Duthsty Rhothdes Says:

    This team and results are directly due to jason licht, yesterday was an aberration and its obvious with the NFLs worst defense of all time, the offense has not been in a game where it has needed to score to actually come back and win and after next week the theme will remain the same and the owners hopefully take a big picture look at the entire season and the entire tenure of jason licht which as a GM has been horrible, time to clean house and let next gm decide on jameis fate in tampa and who is going to pay him 20 mil or not

  18. OneBucPerson Says:

    This should make it abundantly clear that we need an innovative, aggressive, defensive minded HC at the helm. It’s absolutely true that we can’t afford all the turnovers our offense has had this year, and both QBs certainly have a part to play in that, but you CANNOT win games in the league when you almost never take the ball away.

  19. LakeLand Says:


    And that’s why Pittsburgh lost to the Broncos yesterday
    Despite 527 yards of offense to Denver 308 yards of offense

    The Steelers committed 4 turnovers
    The Broncos didn’t commit any turnovers

    It’s rare a team lose the turnover battle and win the game

  20. Buc1987 Says:

    Fun Guy…not quite that easy…

    More like when you’re throwing the ball 85 times a game…… or is it 90?

    INT’s happen.

  21. Pickgrin Says:

    With all the talk about turnover ratio and the inference that its all the offense’s fault for turning the ball over so much – a number of you apparently need reminding that another big reason we are so far down the hole in turnover margin is because the defense (until yesterday) is not getting ANY turnovers this year…

  22. LakeLand Says:

    We know the Bucs has a defense that don’t create turnovers

    That should give the offense more incentive to NOT turn the ball over
    Total yards are not as important as turnovers

  23. LakeLand Says:

    I can see turnovers every now and then

    But we’re talking 29 offensive turnovers
    That’s way, way to many

  24. Robert Says:

    ho hum

    with crabman as the qb you ladies can have your bucs back; i’ll have my sundays back

    won’t support him. period.

  25. JabooBuc Says:

    You can blame the defense all day and i will agree to an extent, after all, they are not getting TO’s while the offense is turning it over. However, this idea that that the offense has been turning it over because the defense can’t stop anybody is simply incorrect.

    I can point to 3 games off the top of my head, Cincy, Atlanta and Pittsburgh, where the offense turned the ball over early and often. All 3 games were lost by less than one score and TB was a collective -9 TO margin for those 3 games.

    Incidentally, the Bucs are a +1 in the 4 games they have won this year and that’s including the Cleveland game where they were -3 for the day.

  26. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    The one wild card in all of this is the Glazer’s stomach for another change….I am quite sure they are desperately looking for a way forward without wholesale changes…..they have done that several times without success.

    If Koetter can somehow win 3 of the next 5….he likely survives with an experienced DC added. Yes, that would be 7-9…..but with the turnovers & defense being the cause of the losses…..Kotter survives.

  27. Parnell's Dickinson Says:

    I just don’t understand these posters. DESPITE a lot of turnovers, the offense has scored a ton of points and is near the top of the league in most categories; it’s the best and most potent offense we have EVER had — better than our Super Bowl team (and it’s not even close). The offense is also REALLY FUN to watch, and you people who haven’t been watching the awful Bucs’ offenses year in and year out since the 70s are like spoiled babies with no perspective. Leave the offense alone.

    Yes, JW needs to cut down on turnovers, but with the EXACT SAME QB play we have had this year including the bonehead INTs, we would be a playoff team if our defense was just mediocre. Our defense is at or near the bottom of the league in yards and points allowed and is dead last in turnovers. THE DEFENSE IS REALLY BAD; that’s why we are not winning more games. The amount of time people spend complaining about QB play is insane. Our QB play has been outstanding except for INTs; even with all of those INTs, we should be 7-4, and we aren’t because of horrendous defense.

  28. Eric Says:

    You guys are right the -21 turnover ratio is the clearest reason we are in this position.

    We are dead last in giveaways and next to last in takeaways.

  29. JabooBuc Says:

    I agree that if the Bucs finish with 3 to 5 more wins before years end, then a strong case could be made with keeping Dirk. Think about what this guy had to endure this year. 3 game suspension of starting QB before year begins, massive number of injuries to defensive side of the ball and the TO’s and horrible kicking.

    Hard to blame Dirk for those things since most are out of his control.

  30. Eric Says:

    Interestingly, in 2016 we were 13th in the turnover ratio with a + 2.

    In 2017 we were 16th.

    Now we have dropped to the absolute bottom. Both takeaways and giveaways are abysmal.

    So, what is the cause? I know most will say JW(and he shares a lot of the blame), but he quarterbacked when we had much better ratios before, and Fitz has contributed 12 INTS himself. And our D just can’t get any takeaways, unlike the previous two years.

    Lack of pass rush the likely culprit plus young secondary? No run game to speak off offensively?

    Weird for sure.

  31. D-Rome Says:

    Offense is exciting but I gotta say, I forgot how exciting an interception can be as well! Same with goal line stands.

  32. Tony LA Says:

    The people who can’t understand that a large percentage of the Buc turnovers are due to having to heave the ball downfield to make up for huge deficits created by the defense just can’t have anything explained to them really – so not worth trying

    Can’t wait to hear all the peeps who want to run 24 year old Jameis out of town make their little excuses today. Who knew that a 24 year old kid with maturity issues needed time to get right? It ai ‘t rocket science, folks.

  33. Im tired and 87 is right Says:

    Hawaiian Buc have you ever thought the reason we have TO’s is because of our horrible defense? It goes something like this if I don’t make this pass then the defense will surrender another TD and we will be one more score behind so I’m going to have to take my chances on this throw good or bad. Oh and mind you our defense hasn’t created any TO’s hardly this year except for yesterday and look what the score turned up for our Bucs. Also the fact that we fall behind we abandon the run and our QBs end up with 40 plus passes which I’m sorry is a recipe for disaster for any team. So yup their are your issues I’ve played and watched enough football games to tell you it’s pretty clear on why the TO’s happen and why we are a losing team. The good thing is we can correct those issues if we focus on addressing the real issues this offseason. Go Bucs!

  34. JabooBuc Says:

    Tony LA, you seem to be discounting the fact that many of these large deficits you speak of were caused by the offense giving it up early and often. I think what reasonable people can agree on is that this team is contributing to this negative statistic as a TEAM. Meaning, both sides of scrimmage are contributing negatively.

    I don’t see this as a JW issue specifically. He has certainly contributed but so has Fitz and the defense.

  35. JWBUCS Says:

    Hawaiian Buc Says:
    November 26th, 2018 at 10:04 am
    The reason we are 4-7 is because of the turnovers. It’s really very simple. I know the defense has been horrible (in particular the secondary), but you can’t turn the ball over this many times and expect to win.


    I believe we can add missed Kicks from the place kicker to this conclusion…

  36. BucEmUp Says:

    Speaks volumes about the defense…beem saying it for about 6 years now.

  37. BucEmUp Says:

    Hawaii Buc….dont you think it’s slightly possible that if this defense were say average and not the worst in the NFL that the qbs wouldn’t be tempted to force throws and make things happen when they are not playing from behind.

    Tell me…please tell me you see that!!!???

  38. LakeLand Says:

    There’s some important factors to consider

    The 3 offensive INT for TDs, the safety on Peyton Barber
    That’s 23 points, the defense had NO part in

    So now we’re talking 28.6 a game, the defense is giving up
    That’s not entirely bad for a young inexperienced defense
    Especially if you have an offense that have turned the ball over 29 times

  39. Lord Cornelius Says:

    Worst D in the league.
    Very inefficient run game.

    Typically the above leads to having to press/pass a lot on offense which leads to more mistakes.

    Regardless of the QB; the turnovers have been a problem because we had yet to play any sort of complete team game until the 49ers game.

    When you get down big early you’re more likely to turn it over in desperation comeback mode. When you can’t run the ball in the red zone you are going to be less likely to score and more likely to have some big f*ck up like the ones we have seen time and time again between sacks/turnovers/missed kicks in opponent territory because it’s 3rd and goal from the 12 since we lost yards running the ball.

    Essentially – whenever we can play any sort of decent defense + decent run game we have a huge chance of winning. Not even elite levels. Just be decent at it and we will have a huge chance to win.

  40. LakeLand Says:

    13 of the Bucs 29 offensive turnovers happen in the first half

    Maybe the offense were partially responsible for the 2nd half deficit

  41. Eric Says:

    Panthers have lost three in a row and are 1-4 on the road.

    Dirk has to have this one IMO cause road gets much tougher after Sunday. Saints, Ravens, Cowboys are a bit nightmarish.

  42. orlbucfan Says:

    Fell asleep on the couch with my headphones on, and missed the entire second half. RATS!! I sensed something was up when the 49er kicker missed that extra point. The Bucs are not a 4-7 team. They’re more like a 7-4 squad. Proud of the whole bunch ‘cept the Jackson diva. Hopefully, he will be history next year.

  43. orlbucfan Says:

    Bucs won 5 in a row including beating the Chiefs at Arrowhead. This is not a 4-7 team. It’s more like a 7-4 squad if you take away Buc Luck.

  44. Bobby Says:

    So, we have an offense. What’s wrong with keeping things together and focusing on defense now? Looks like we may have a front line now. Let’s get some DB help and some depth up front. I like Nassib and JPP on the outside. Yesterday showed what Vea can develop into. This draft should focus on the D and picking up some vets at DB. I’m not in favor of blowing things up. This team is still playing hard and with heart. Koetter hasn’t lost the locker room.

  45. LakeLand Says:

    Bucs opponents 65 points of Bucs turnovers

    You can blame the defense and rightfully so

    But no way, the offense shouldn’t share any of the blame
    It’s a two way street, they both are to blame

  46. JabooBuc Says:

    Lakeland- Yep, i was just looking that up. There were only two games, Chicago and Carolina, where they were basically out of it or down big in the first half. The other 5 losses, the games were competitive at half time or at least through the 1st Q. Again, Pitt, Cinci and Atlanta are all examples of the offense turning it over often in the first half.

    Look, nobody on this site would argue that this defense doesn’t need to improve drastically. The main point is that it has been a total team effort in contributing to this turnover margin and ultimately to these losses.

  47. Eric Says:

    All true Jaboobuc, and don’t forget the special teams too.

  48. JimmyJack Says:

    From what I have seen 4-7 does match.

    We have been noncompetitive in several games this year. Our only wins in the past 2 &1/2 months have been vs the Browns and 49ers at home.

    I’m all for seeing this team get over the hump and prooving themselves. But it needs to be done against good NFL competition. It can start this week with a home matchup vs Carolina.

    This is a game good teams expect to win. I don’t expect us to win this one. We haven’t proven we are that good. 4-7 fits like a glove if you ask me. I would enjoy to be proven wrong this Sunday!!

    GOO BUCS!!!

  49. JimmyJack Says:

    Jaboo yes. It has been the whole team. Too many fans have been looking at one side of the ball trying to find all the answers. It’s not that simple. There is no defending either side of the ball when your team is constantly getting blown out and looking up at 3+ TD deficit.

  50. stpetebucsfan Says:

    So we have played from behind too frequently. We got behind sometimes because of our D…sometimes…see Cincy because of our wild half cocked QB.

    But as far as being “forced” to throw it…duh..what is the strength of our team? We have perhaps the best receiving corp in the league. How can you not throw it when it’s clearly the strength of the team…and by a LARGE margin.

    How many 10-3 games have we seen this year. How many record setting NFL games this year in terms of scoring totals…across the entire league.

    I’m all for improving our run game for better balance but we were built to throw the ball not to run it. If we had the #2 pick last year and gotten Barkley perhaps.

  51. JimmyJack Says:

    And Lakeland drives my point home with the statistics.

    65 points? That’s insane. When the other team scores off of a turnover both the offense and defense should be held responsible. Very simple concept to understand.

  52. Josh Says:

    There are two simple reasons why our record doesn’t match the Rams, Chiefs, Saints, despite them also having some baaaaad defenses.

    The offense could not, for several weeks, deliver when it needed to! Watch a Chiefs game, and you can see they can and do virtually score at will against any defense. Watch the Bucs games vs the Panthers, Steelers, Falcons, all last minute garbage time scoring to make it seem like a close game. Vast difference between an actually elite offense (Chiefs) and an “elite” offense (Bucs).

    Kansas City, one of the premier teams in the NFL, actually has a WORSE yards per game defense, rush defense, and pass defense than the Bucs. They’re the #1 seed in the AFC.

  53. Fire Light Says:

    No. Koetter and Licht both need to go. They’ve done some good and some bad, but let another regime take the best of Licht’s decisions and add on with new selections.

  54. Rod Munch Says:

    If the Bucs scored 27 they scored yesterday in every game this year, what would their record be?

    Well, they’d be 4-7.

    That tells you everything about this inept defense… and no, I don’t believe the defense suddenly figured out how to play yesterday. Instead I think they played a 5th string QB playing with no starting WRs who travelled all the way across the US to play an early game. I think next week we’re right back to the defense putting the team down by 21 points in the 2nd quarter and people saying Jameis is the problem when he brings the team back to make it close in the 4th quarter only to see the defense do their normal weekly collapse.

  55. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Hawaiian Buc Says
    “The reason we are 4-7 is because of the turnovers.”

    No. It is because of the Defense.

    Because the defense has been unable to stop opposing teams from scoring, our Quarterbacks had to throw more and play recklessly.

    If they could trust the defense, like yesterday, then the QBs would not take as many risks and would not turn the ball over as much.

  56. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Waterboy Says
    “Koetter should’ve addressed the defense after last season.”

    The defense WAS addressed after last season. We got a lot of new players, good players. Up until then, everyone was expecting Mike Smith to work a miracle without giving him the players he needed.

    This year, he had the players and hung himself.

    So he was fired.

    But Koetter was hands off the defense. He did his job, making the Bucs the top offense. He wasn’t the one working with Jameis and the Quarterbacks though. No, that guy got a promotion.

  57. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    LakeLand Says
    “There’s some important factors to consider

    The 3 offensive INT for TDs, the safety on Peyton Barber
    That’s 23 points, the defense had NO part in”

    That doesn’t cover all 7 losses, does it? And why did those picks really happen? Because the defense sucked and the QBs got desperate.

  58. JimmyJack Says:

    Bonzai you’re making excuses for the turnovers.

    Turnovers are inexcusable and hurt the team. Just like having the worst defense.

    Both parts are to be held accountable. Same with poor kicking……If kickers don’t get the luxary of excuses then neither should poor QB play.

  59. SOEbuc Says:

    Round 1-CB Greedy Williams (LSU)
    Round 2- SS Grant Delpit (LSU)

    Two of the best DBs at their position in the best secondary in college football. Both would already know how to communicate with each other. One if not both is helping our secondaries turn over whoa’s straight out the gate.

  60. Wesley Says:

    The shocking thing is they could easily be 7-4.

  61. Ed Says:

    Bad defense, bad offense early in the games they lost. Going into halftime not leading in lost games. Turnovers for touchdowns by other teams. Poor halftime adjustments.