Is Trust Destroyed?

September 26th, 2018

How tight is the bond?

Last year, when all hell was breaking loose due to the injured shoulder of America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, a story surfaced that there was angst and tension between Jameis and Bucs coach Dirk Koetter.

Both men vehemently denied any such rift. Both explained their admiration for each other.

Joe had zero evidence to suggest there was anything to the story. But this incident came to mind for Joe with the likely prospect that for the foreseeable future, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and not Jameis, will be the Bucs starting quarterback.

When Koetter spoke with Jameis for the first time in weeks on Tuesday after Jameis finished serving his three-game suspension, Koetter said he explained to Jameis about the team’s plans. Joe is speculating that part of the explanation was that Jameis has been benched (which is what Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reported). For how long is unclear.

Yes, the last time Jameis stepped on the field for the Bucs, he engineered a 95-yard scoring drive to beat the NFC South champion Saints.

Joe’s mind quickly turned to the “In the Trenches” podcast where former Bucs guard and popular Tampa Bay area radio personality Ian Beckles said in no uncertain terms that if Jameis is shelved, his agent will be working behind the scenes to drum up a trade.

And for Jameis, if he does get on the field for the Bucs, Beckles fears he will have to play perfect football because too many short-sighted Bucs fans cannot wait to help him pack a moving van.

“The second Jameis Winston throws that first pick, or the second Jameis Winston plays a bad quarter or the second Jameis Winston pulls some bonehead play — which you know he’s going to do because he has done it his whole career — this fanbase is going to turn on him. It’s going to turn on him.

“If they go with Ryan Fitzpatrick when Jameis comes back, the Jameis era is over. … Right now, Dirk Koetter and Jason Licht are in a weird situation unlike I’ve ever seen before.”

Beckles explained when there is a quarterback change, rarely is it an old quarterback over a young quarterback. Beckles said he couldn’t think of another example.

“Old guys are not supposed to overthrow the future,” Beckles said. “I’ve never seen it.

“You can’t go with Ryan Fitzpatrick [for a long period of time] and then go back to Jameis Winston and tell Jameis Winston he’s the man again because he is not going to believe what you are saying.”

Very interesting to Joe last week was Jameis hiring heavy-hitter agent Joe Segal to represent him. Among Segal’s clients and success stories was rehabbing the image of Michael Vick and finding him a new team after he was imprisoned for torturing dogs and operating a dogfighting syndicate.

Yes, Koetter and Jameis’ relationship may have been just fine last season. But after all that has happened since June, how is it now?

158 Responses to “Is Trust Destroyed?”

  1. Robert Says:

    he has about as much trust in that locker room as stormy daniels does a hymen

  2. Bucs Fan #7423 Says:

    Did we fire Mike Smith yet?

  3. Eric Says:

    A bit dramatic Beckles.

  4. Godeep66 Says:

    Look at it this way Joe: Let’s say your wife or girlfriend was cheating on you and one of your buddy’s alerted you about it. She of course denied it and you trusted her (or him if your Buc1987). She even had some of her best girlfriends vouch for her that there is no way she would cheat on you. Then 6 months later you came home from work and found her in bed with the same guy that your buddy warned you about. Now ask yourself, would you trust her. Same deal with JW and the Bucs coaching staff and ownership. But just like the wife….she can always get replaced with a younger person.

  5. Lamarcus Says:


    The JW will start at a time to save our season and when he can’t the vultures will circle.

    That’s why u should start him now but If not u must trade him or cut him

  6. Dewey Selmon Says:

    You simply tell Winston you are going with the hot hand and hope Fitz never cools off. But you can’t expect Fitz to put up 400 yds and multiple td’s every week. I don’t think anyone trusts Winston at this point, and it’s going to come down to him saving everyone’s job.

  7. Robert Says:

    I hope JW succeeds, but he has zero leverage now that a QB has shown what is doable with these weapons. He’s also one fart away from getting kicked out of the league. He’s not worth much, might get a 4th or 5th rounder and a bag of stale chips.

    He has to man up and shut up and learn. not his strong suit some would say. but hey, we can hope right?

  8. James Walker Says:

    So Ryan Griffin is our QB in 2019 and not Winston? Great, another 1st round pick thrown away. Freeman, Talib, Clayborne, Martin, Barron, no pick in 2013. Great way to build a winning team.

  9. Robert Says:

    “(or him if your Buc1987)”



  10. Buc1987 Says:

    “too many short-sighted Bucs fans cannot wait to help him pack a moving van.”

    There’s not that many….

  11. Dapostman Says:

    After watching the last 5 games of 2017 and the 2018 preseason where teammates were rallying around Winston I don’t see any issue between Winston and his teammates. All Winston has to do is prepare and stay out of trouble. I expect him being a new dad he has already learned a valuable lesson. I have no issue with Fitz starting week 4 as he should be more prepared than Winston. By week 6 Winston should be back under center and Fitz back at backup QB. This is really a no brainer but these are the Bucs so expect anything.

    #Get After It!

  12. D-Rome Says:

    Fitzpatrick should start against the Bears. If he starts again after the bye week I think the Bucs have a real problem. If Jameis does not start against the Browns then what you are telling him and the rest of the world is that you don’t trust him to win football games. If you don’t trust him now, then why should the organization trust him later?

    The truth is, is that Fitzpatrick can consistently make throws that Jameis can’t. He’s proved this in the two years he’s been here. The throws that Fitz can make that Jameis can’t make have helped the Bucs go 2-1 and they could easily be 3-0.

  13. horse liver Says:

    Neither Gina Beckles, nor the fans, runs the Buccaneers. Koetter, Licht, Jameis and his agent have way more maturity and foresight to behave in the way these immature loudmouthed shallow short-sighted instant-gratification-loving talking heads and idiot fans think.

    Jameis is the Bucs quarterback. They will not trade Jameis or release him or any such nonense, in favor of a 35-year-old inconsistent journeyman who has two good games and then a pick fest to his credit this year.

  14. Buc1987 Says:

    Godeep……hey LOOK there’s one person that likes you… Robert….

    Go figure. Just as goofy assed you.

  15. Crack3rK Says:

    Bucs are 2-1 and nobody wants to enjoy it. Very tired of the pundits shouting the sky is falling.

  16. Chris Says:

    Lot’s of good young qbs coming to out the next two years. This is the era where you don’t need to hang on to qbs that don’t perform and have baggage. Apologies to the hidden agenda people and FSU homers.

  17. 813bucboi Says:

    if the trust is broken why keep him on the team?….wasn’t trust broken with ASJ?…..wasn’t trust broken with baker?….wasn’t trust broken with ward?….I aint buying that BS….

    I will say that whoever starts this game, that decision will be sending a message to the team, fans and media…..

    I say start Winston and catch the bears off guard….all the bears film have been on fitz and the offense…..I know monken has some plays for Winston that he wasn’t able to call with fitz under center… some of those RPO’s and bootlegs…..slow down that pass rush with an up tempo 2minute drill that Winston thrives in…..

    this situation will tell us if our coaches are for real or not…..


  18. Buc1987 Says:

    Being that this is JoeBucsFAN……and we have a small sample size of fans here in the comments daily. One can clearly see Beckles is wrong. From what I can tell the fans that want to run him off consist of about 20%.

    Do a poll Joe to slap these fools in the head once and for all….

  19. Waterboy Says:

    I hate that Jameis put the team in that situation. Hopefully it’ll work out for the best.

  20. Chris Says:

    And if these guys don’t want a Haskins or Murray, etc….it is only about their homer college love for a guy that continues to let down the team.

  21. Robert Says:

    I like him sure, but not in an 87′ manlove kind of way

  22. Buc1987 Says:

    Chris…is this the same Chris that never wanted him to begin with? With FSU homers and all that crap.

    Sounds like it….in that case.


  23. PSLBob Says:

    This is all so much BS and fan angst, I can’t believe it. Jameis is going to start Week 6 against Atlanta after the bye week. You can take that to the bank and I’m ready to eat crow if I’m wrong.

  24. Buc1987 Says:

    I’m glad you guys (same person?)continue with your foolishness in print. Just so everyone can see not to take you seriously about anything.

  25. Robert Says:

    @ 87 just cause 87 doen’t make it right. think of all the poles you’ve taken over the years. that aint right man.

    I’d say the majority here are JW homers as joe (no disrespect) has a major mancrush on him and jabs anyone and everyone with it in virtually every article.

    I’d say the fanbase on this sight is majorly biased toward americas groper

  26. Robert Says:

    no 87, you can’t sew your hymen back

  27. Wausa Says:

    I think Joe is doing some heavy speculation, but I agree with his speculation.
    Jamies new agent is the same agent that forced the Raiders to trade Khalil Mack and I think Jamies(even though he did this to himself) understands a vocal minority of fans and pretty much all the local media do not like him

    Jamies is ready to lead a different franchise and I think he will win championships wherever he ends up going.

    My guess is his agent will at some point let the Bucs know that Jamies has no intention of resigning with the Bucs.

  28. Lamarcus Says:

    D Rome

    Agree. No way JW throws lame ducks and throwing punts to ME13 like Fitz. Definitely can’t make weak limpy throws that db get their hands on plus throws 3 ints in a 3 pass attempts. Your right. Fitz is a back up for a reason

  29. Chris Says:

    Yeah, never did…..and proven right. A friggin 68 year old Ryan Fitzpatrick has done more with the weapons for Winston than Winston ever has. Didn’t like the allegations in college, didn’t like the imbecile standing on a table yelling grab her in the p, while being investigated, crab legs stealing , BB gun shooting, up and down playing, bonehead play against Oregon. Sophmore year, continues to be up and down. Gets to the NFL, and grabs an Ubu driver. And no, Mariota looks lousy as well, if I’m the Titans I’m looking for a qb also

  30. ChanEpic Says:

    Conte replacement signed Andrew Adams:

  31. ChanEpic Says:

    If the speculation is true and Jameis leaves because boneheads prefer journeymen over franchise QBs I would ask, if not Jameis then who? Drafting a QB gets us back to square 1 with this offense, and relying on Fitz, whom I love as backup, is CRAZY. A lot of Tampa fans are like cats, they don’t know what they want, but the want it RIGHT NOW.

  32. Chris Says:

    Buc87, the Bell is tolling for your guy, the signs are there….guess you’ll be Pitt2019, cause that’s a good place for W eating could go

  33. Robert Says:

    @ wausa…… JW does this to himself via harming other individuals, then hires new agent because he doesn’t feel responsible

    as crazy messed up as that sound. it’s probably right. lol

    scary thing is people agree with him. course those same people probably believe kap did it for a cause. lol

  34. Chris Says:

    Nahh, the young qbs now, you give them a season or two and they’re good. Goff, Wentz,

  35. mickman Says:

    i believe everyone is reading too much into this situation. Winston i am sure understands as an athelete his opportunity will arise soon just not yet. short week and bye week to follow . i always felt he would start in game 5 after the bye week and still believe winston will start at that time.

  36. Wjs Says:

    Can’t believe an organization makes decisions based on something as stupid as riding the hot hand. U analyze and determine who is the better player which gives u best chance to win most games over the course of a season, not gamble on high variance luck outcomes game by game.

    So if they go past the bye week (would argue even this game) with Fitz as QB then they have made their choice and Jameis’ agent should be looking for a trade. Would be incredibly stupid choice but once made Bucs need to maximize the outcome and trade him as soon as can. A new team will pay most the longer they can play him before deciding on any extension.

  37. AlteredEgo Says:

    If it is a trust issue between Koetter and Jameis…IMO it is not about Jameis’s ability to execute any particular play…it may be about Koetter trusting Jameis to execute the play as called and designed without Jameis going rouge and going “back yard hero ” football…

  38. Eric Says:

    Goff and Wentz turned out good, but what about the other failures? Drafting a QB in the first round is hardly a guarantee. Failure rate higher than success. And who develops that QB? Dirk is going to last during growing pains on a new QB.

    Goff and Wentz also had one thing in common. A great defense and running game.

    We have a man who has thrown 69 tds in his first three years, and after the shoulder injury last year played at a top level. He has also Quarterbacked the bucs to a winning season previously.

    Throw it all away and hope to start over? Bad idea. Very bad idea.

  39. Wausa Says:


    Great analysis.

    It is a terrible decision to go with FItz unless you don’t want Jamies as your QB.

    Hopefully, Koetter does the smart thing and starts Jamies. If they don’t the Bucs are back to square 1 at QB after this season.

  40. D-Rome Says:


    I agree with what you said. If Jameis doesn’t play against the Browns the team may as well trade him. There’s no way the Bucs make that decision. He will be starting week 6, much to the chagrin of the haters.

  41. ndog Says:

    How can there be any trust? Dirk royally screwed up the shoulder injury last year and keep going with the excuse that it was not his call as the medical team said he could play. So he did not make a decision, shocker!!! Not this year Jameis shot the entire franchise in the foot with this suspension, which is 100% on him but them to make matters worse here is Koetter again not making a decision just stating we will know when the time is right. Leaders don’t wait for things to happen they make them happen by looking at a situation and MAKING A FREAKING DECISION. If it is Fitz its Fitz, if is Jameis then it is Jameis, but for goodness sakes MAKE A DECISION for once in your life without coping out like you did last year when Jameis clearly should not have been playing hurt while the season went to crap. That is my problem with this entire situation, we don’t have a real organization that can make decisions. Like why in the world is this defense not getting better despite better players or why did we pay Jay Hayes a boat load of money (in the real world) just to fire him a month later? Oh I know why this organization cannot makes DECISIONS!!!!!!!

  42. ndog Says:

    Heck to be honest with you I think deep down Koetter really wants Ryan Griffin to be the long term QB here neither Fitz or Jameis. Trade em both play Griffin and load up on Oline and Dline in the draft next year with the picks we acquire, that is where I am at with this clueless franchise.

  43. Bucwatcher Says:

    If Winston would have played the first three games…

    We would be 0 and 3…NOT 2 and 1.

    He CAN NOT throw DEEP. And he’s SECOND in the league in turnovers!

    Trade him for a number one pick in next year’s draft. We already have his replacement on the team. Griffin.

  44. Bucsfanman Says:

    ndog- I agree. It’s decision time. The Bucs need to know if they have the future on their roster or if they need to look elsewhere. Jameis needs to prove he belongs here. He has the tools, can he translate those to the field. 18-27 record can and should be replaced if that’s all he is.
    Trust is earned. Go earn it. End of story.

  45. Wausa Says:

    If Jamies is so awful no team would trade a number one pick for him.


    @ Eric


    Great comments by all three of you.

  46. 1sparkybuc Says:

    The haters are here, not in the stands.

  47. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Does anyone know who the Bucs released to make room for Winston? I know Conte went on IR, but they signed a safety too.

  48. Architek Says:

    Let’s see: feed your family > loyal to a privileged spoiled so so QB??

  49. Sunday_44 Says:

    @ Bucwatcher

    I think your crystal ball is dirty!!!

  50. ndog Says:

    Bucsfanman great point but if you don’t get to play how do you earn it? Also like I said in another post, it really feels like they are setting Jameis up to fail. Teams are going to get a book on how to stop this offense within the next week or two (if not already based on the Steelers blitzing every play and playing two deep) then they are going to bring in Jameis to “fix” it. Then when he does not throw for 400 yards and 4 TD’s every game, which no one would once they have it figured out, he will be looked at like he is not good enough and we should move on. He is basically going to be in a no win situation unless he literally plays perfect football every game. They are just messing this up completely if they don’t start him this week.

  51. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Godeep66 Says
    “Look at it this way Joe: Let’s say your wife or girlfriend…”

    ROFL! Joe with a wife or girlfriend????? LOL!


  52. Architek Says:

    If any of you “fans” had to choose family and job security over Winston this would be a non-discussion.

    Fans have to convenience of chirping opinions meanwhile, people livelihoods are at stake.

    Also, Mike Smith and his defense should be on the same thin ice as Winston.

  53. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:


    That is the reason people want Fitzpatrick over Winston right now. Fear that we’ll lose with Winston.

    Spoiler: We will. Just as we will (have) lose with Fitz.

    Stop fearing. Start living. Go with Winston.

  54. Tattooedbuc Says:

    I’ve been thinking about this for awhile. To me the defense didn’t lose this game the offense did. The defense held the the steelers to 23 points. They gave the offense a short field early with an interception which led to an early lead. They held the Steelers scoreless in the second half. They gave the offense the ball with 3 minutes, 2 timeouts , 2 minute warning, on their 20 down by 3. Fitz threw 2 balls that should have been picked qnd a third into double coverage that could have been picked as well. When given the opportunity to win the game they failed. Compare that to jaemis Winston’s last start. I believe he also threw 3 interceptions and dug a hole. But when given the opportunity to win the game late he led a 95 yard drive capped by a bomb to Godwin for the winning touchdown. That’s the difference. I still 5hink Fitzpatrick should start against the Bears on a short week, but Jaimes should start after that. I’d love to see the Joe’s do a comparison of both QBs last start.

  55. pelbuc Says:

    Maybe his new agent will “rehab” his tendency to fumble, overthrow open WRs and throw picks. Dude hasn’t done squat since he’s been here other than rack up stats in garbage time and embarrass himself and the franchise. Trade him and train Griffin to be the younger Fitzparick.

  56. Lord Cornelius Says:

    So many objectively stupid takes here in terms of Winston’s performance on the field.

    “stats in garbage time” for example.

    Couldn’t be more objectively untrue if you go look at the game logs. That’s one of like 50 stupid things said here. No time to address that nonsense.

    Hate the man as a human being if you want but the on-field analysis here is a joke.

    GO BUCS!!

  57. JimmyJack Says:

    This is when the controversy really heats up. Words like these are pretty wild. And you don’t want scenarios like that one play out.

    This team can’t get all these trade rumors/Winston wants out rumors………That very well could destroy the season. To me it doesn’t sound like Winston wants out when you consider his private workouts……So the decision seems very manageable for the Bucs.

    The reason Dirk was hired here was because of his relationship with Winston and he knew it going in. He and the Glazers shook hands with the goal of getting Winston and this offense to a top level.

    This season is the time for him to finish complete his goal. Having Fitz to deal with makes it difficult but I believe Dirk will do a very good job and will have both QBs embrace the roles he gives them…….No drama, no controversy, no upset players…….just FOOTBALL!!!
    GOO BUCS!!!!!

  58. JimmyJack Says:

    Somebody hashtag that…… drama, no controversy, just football!!

  59. NPR SageBoy Says:

    Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Jameis did this to himself with his off field antics. He already had his “second chance” when Licht and Lovie drafted him. I really can’t feel sorry for him.

  60. Jameis Almighty! Says:

    Bucwatcher: you sir, are a bad troll and a bad Buc fan. Jenson and Monken are the reasons this team is succeeding. You want a rebuild with all of the talent on offense, a new center that has made the line way better, and an offensive play caller who the players love because he is aggressive. The problems with this team are fans like you, Jason Licht, and Dirk Koetter. All three of you’s can take a hike!

  61. Defense Rules Says:

    @Joe … “Yes, the last time Jameis stepped on the field for the Bucs, he engineered a 95-yard scoring drive to beat the NFC South champion Saints.”

    And the FIRST TIME Fitz stepped on the field for the Bucs THIS SEASON, he engineered a 68-yard scoring drive in TWO passes and 2 runs to beat the NFC South champion Saints.”

    @Beckles … “Beckles explained when there is a quarterback change, rarely is it an old quarterback over a young quarterback. Beckles said he couldn’t think of another example.”

    Beckles might want to dig a little deeper into his short memory … might be mistaken, but I believe Tony Dungy brought in old-man Brad Johnson in 2001 to replace the much-younger Shaun King who’d started all 16 games in 2000. Of course it was undoubtedly a bad move because the Bucs went 9-7 that year and Tony got fired. Obviously moving to an older QB is bad for a HC’s career.

  62. JimmyJack Says:

    Lord those stats are absolutely irrevelant.

    You read this article and when you start hearing the word trade it is a snowball waiting to be pushed downhill.

    Those past stats are totally irrevalant…….The only stats that matter are the ones that Winston is going to throw for in the rest of his career……….That leaves only one question. Do you want Winston to put up his future stats in Tampa or for another city? It’s one simple question……For me it’s Tampa.

  63. JimmyJack Says:

    Joe I wanna hear DJax talk. He gotta be happy right now for this offense to keep going. As for the rest of the offense, they play better when their angy anyways, just gotta make sure Djax is chill.

  64. LynchMob Says:

    Matt Leinert heir apparent for the Arizona Cardinals quarterback job was replaced by Kurt Warner. There’s your example. Kurt Warner was horrible as a backup/starter for the New York Giants when they had drafted Eli Manning. He was supposed to mentor Eli Manning, but clearly wasn’t himself due to a hand injury. Eli quickly replaced him. The next year Kurt Warner came to the Cardinals to mentor Matt Leinert, but Kurt was clearly the better quarterback in preseason. When Matt Leinert stunk it up in the regular season, they turned to Kurt Warner and never looked back. Goodbye Matt Leinert. We never heard from him again, even when he played with the Texans.

  65. Dapostman Says:

    Comparing Kurt Warner to Ryan Fitzpatrick and Matt Leinert to Jameis Winston is i’ll say interesting. I’ll leave it at that.

  66. LynchMob Says:

    I wasn’t comparing them at all. Just giving the example because Ian Beckles said he couldn’t think of one. Not comparing them.

  67. Bucsfanman Says:

    ndog- He absolutely SHOULD play. My bet is that will occur after the bye week with Fitz starting against the Bears. From a purely technical standpoint this is the scenario that makes the most sense.
    I know he’s been working out and all that but, he’s been away from the team too long to throw him in versus Chicago. Just my opinion.
    The Bucs need to know. The only way is to play him.

  68. Eric Says:

    Matt Leinert is the example?

    Fitz is Kurt Warner?

    Seriously? Wow, the guys in the white coats need to come out with some heavy duty medications.

  69. Bucsfan77 Says:

    You know they could be sitting Jameis till Fitzpatrick completely bombs, that way the fickle fanbase won’t be so out to jump all over Winston should he come back in and have a mediocre game. If Jamis comes backs too soon while Fitzpatrick is still hot then one mistake the fans are screaming for his head. The coach could spin it to Jameis as he is trying to look out for him

  70. Dapostman Says:

    @NPR Sageboy,

    yes we know Winston did it to himself, Captain Obvious. What you never state is Winston has served his deserved NFL punishment and is now a free man. Winston is out of jail and served his time like Red from the Shawshank Redemption. The ball is in his court to stay clean. My opinion is he will and he deserves the right to prove it. Others will disagree and think he should be banished to the Island of Misfit Toys. My guess is you are one of them.

    #Get after It!

  71. Defense Rules Says:

    @Bucsfanman … “It’s decision time. The Bucs need to know if they have the future on their roster or if they need to look elsewhere. Jameis needs to prove he belongs here. He has the tools, can he translate those to the field.” You hit all the BIG questions right on the head Bucsfanman, BUT there’s 1 more variable: the Glazers. None of us have any skin in the game; they do.

    Are THE Glazer Boyz willing to risk literally hundreds of millions of dollars on Jameis? You & I & the rest of Bucsville have ZERO idea what the answer to that question is. Neither does Joe or Licht or Koetter or Nilo who cuts my hair. And at this point, I have a suspicion that the Glazer Boyz don’t know either. But 1 day they will.

    I enjoy your comments so let me share a thought with ya. In my previous career as a pilot, we’d run through dozens of what we called ‘WHAT IF’ scenarios in each pre-mission briefing. Try this one: WHAT IF Koetter starts Fitz against Chicago & we win with Fitz throwing another 400 yard passing game. We’re then 3-1 with 2 weeks off. Does Koetter start Jameis against the Falcons in Atlanta in Game 5? WHAT IF we lose that game? But let’s say Bucs stick with Jameis the rest of the season (12 starts after Chicago for Jameis) and we go 6-6 the rest of the way, giving us a 9-7 record on the season, but we still end up 4th in the NFC South. Fitz moves on, as does Griffin (BOTH on 1-year contracts). WHAT THEN? Do you retain Koetter and his staff? Do you retain Licht? Do you offer Jameis a huge long-term contract?

    WHAT IF is a fun game, isn’t it.

  72. lewis Says:

    This is a must win game for the bucs we lose season is in jeopardy

  73. JimmyJack Says:

    BucsFan77……I thought that could be a decent option but not when I read articles like this. If the QB decision is going to create trade rumors and such then it’s a bad decision IMO.

    Rumors circulating throughout lockerrooms ruin seasons. We cannot have our lockerroom getting divided while other NFL teams are getting United. This Bucs team will have absolutely no chance of competing if that happens.

  74. ATrain Says:


    Jamies won’t come back and have a mediocre game
    He is the savior

    No no don’t set up for the excuses already

    If Jamies comes back with this offense he must do better than or atleast as good as Fitz Period.

    You Jamies Fans wnatbthe BEST in there to win. Then make excuses we he doesn’t

    We Know what this offense can do if Jamies is elite then he better show out

  75. JimmyJack Says:

    Lewis Our next home game will be huge too. I’m not sure when/who but you can’t lose 2 consecutive home games. That’s just embarrassing.

  76. Tval Says:

    “If jameis comes back he must do better than fitz.” When has fitz outperformed him….. EVER??? Spare me those paltry secondaries, and a Steelers team THAT TIED THE BROWNS!!!! Bwahahahaaaaa!!! My eagles secondary is tough vs run but GARBAGE pass d. Ask ANYONE that watched the super bowl. relativity, AGAIN, lost on remedial football minds.
    PLEASE TRADE JAMEIS TO CHICAGO OR CINCY!!!!!!!!!! And be cursed for a decade…PLUS!!!

  77. Buc1987 Says:

    ATrain = short-sighted Bucs fan.

  78. Tval Says:

    And it won’t matter once Khalil breaks fitztragic. That garbage first half vs Pitt should have been enough. Koetter will be canned if he keeps his lack of leadership up. This offense will STALL vs ANY competent defense, MINUS jameis. Mark my words!!!

  79. D the Bucs fan Says:

    It doesn’t matter who the qb is when your coaches suck.

  80. Bucsfanman Says:

    Defense Rules- What if?!!! There’s a lot there to ponder. You’re right though, we’ve no skin in the game. Thus, we can only speculate.
    First off, if Fitz throws for 400+ and wins against Chicago, it will be difficult to bench him. That’s a decision I do not envy!
    With your scenario, and the Bucs going 9-7, I would retain Koetter but not offer the huge contract to Jameis. I’d make him play out his 5th year before making that decision contingent upon 9-7 being a baseline.
    Anything less than 9-7, EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE gets fired. There’s no excuse for this offense, especially based on the 3 game sample-size, to not outscore teams even with the defense playing “poorly.” The mistakes in personnel will no longer be overlooked nor will the coaching.
    They MUST win. At least I think that SHOULD be the expectation anyway!

  81. Buc1987 Says:

    If you’ve NEVER liked Winston to begin with prior to his suspension…..your opinion means DIDDLY squat at this point. Keep that in mind “haters”. Most of us regs know who you are. Hell I can go through the archives and find some of you bashing him pre-drafting him. So your points today to me at least is moot. Your not saying anything new. I’m a MUCH bigger Bucs fan than Winston fan. It’s not even close actually.

    I would not defend the kid so much if your comments weren’t so off base and DUMB most of the time. If I get the time and I’m really bored I’ll compile a list of the “haters” for everyone. I think it would be good to have a list together so peeps can judge their comments as they come along. Take them for who they were to begin with….

  82. FreeTheSecretWeapon Says:

    People RELAX… Go back and read all of my post as well as 87s post… We have put the issue of whos are starter to bed…

    Unlike 87 I refuse to try to teach we taught it people.

    Go gettem 87… But dont stress the small things… Logic will dictate the day…

    The best players play… WR ALL KNOW WHO THE BEST QB ON OUR TEAM IS.

  83. D the Bucs fan Says:

    We were 2-1 last year and coaching let us down. Bad defense. Bad Playcalling. Bad running game. never prepared to start the game. Bad time and game management. Bad special teams. No returners with speed. No team speed. No super elite athletes. No in game adjustments until it’s no late. Bad game planning. Too much bad to blame the qb. Their are no guarantee and Rookie we draft will work as hard as Jameis or be as talented. Dude is only 24. And y’all compare him to a journeyman who is 11 yrs his senior like he can’t mature and improve on his decision making. And learn how to make those throws. Fitz makes. Fitz is what he is a non playoff un clutch qb. All teams now have to do is blitz more than 40% of the time and he can’t handle

  84. Buc1987 Says:

    Bucsfanman….so I guess I got ya figured out by now…..

    The Win-Loss record is not Koetter’s, Smitty’s, Lichts, or the entire crappy defense.

    It’s Winston and Fitz’s W/L record. No one else matters.

    You’ve made that clear. I got it now. Don’t understand it, but got it!

  85. ATLBucsfan Says:

    What I think is a more interesting comment from Koetter this week was his reaction to Jameis’ workouts, an earlier Joe’s post. He said in describing Jameis’ workouts “I wouldn’t mind seeing film of it because Jameis got his wish: He was both player and coach at the same time.” “Jameis got his wish”…I think this says alot about the Koetter / Jameis relationship. Remember the play that beat NO last year was a Jameis on-field change to the called play, ie, Jameis playing coach. Is there conflict between the two or have they talked it out and agreed that these types of changes are necessary in real time OR is Koetter harboring some resentment that Jameis wants more control over called plays? I wonder.

  86. Phil Says:

    Jameis should be the starter. If he’s not then you can believe he & his agent will be looking to get out of town so Koetter better not screw this up. Because if lose the only franchise quarterback we have had Koetter will pay for it with his job. Everyone needs to remember how young Jameis is. He is only going to get better. I was hate for us to lose him.

  87. FreeTheSecretWeapon Says:


    I do understand the desire to defend him. However unlike the Cucky situation. The Fans wont influence the Glazers more than the coaches…

    TRUST ME… They are defending him…

    The Fox report of JW not starting was a page out of the ol coach handbook on how to use the media to your advantage…

    There is no controversy… JW knew in the off season he would return for the Bears game… Thats why he went all sandlot and stayed in routine… He hatched the plan cause the coaches already made up theyre mimds…

    Count it as a blessimg Fitz went Magical… Most likely because he knew he only had 3 games to ball out!!!

  88. Buc1987 Says:

    Just saying you bring up Winston’s record ALL the time as if that’s why the team sucks. So with that logic Fitz lost the game for us on Monday Night then right?

    It’s all his fault. His loss. That’s the logic.

  89. JabooBuc Says:

    87- I was a Jameis fan and supporter but it’s going to take a long time and excellent performance on the field for me to even consider this guy. As I have said before, I watched closely as he went through everything at FSU and thought he would learn his lesson and be the better for it. But he is apparently a very slow learner which is not a good indicator of success in this league.

    Again, he as been suspended for 4 games in the past 2 years and lied to the team and coaches that stuck their neck out for him. Sorry for having standards but this guy deserves very little in the way of future chances.

  90. lambchop Says:

    Ian Beckles is a sensationalist. You do not switch quarterbacks when the backup is hot. You go with the flow and continue with the hot hand. I believe the Bills can explain this better than anyone when they brain farted and took out Doug Flutie for Robo-sack in a playoff game.

    Once Fitz struggles, it’s Jameis’s chance to take control. This is a luxury to have 2 QBs who may both help take the team to the playoffs, but you don’t mess with the hot hand until an injury or unless Fitz starts playing like Nathan Peterman.

    And why wouldn’t fans be upset with bone headed plays? Great QBs minimize bone headed plays. If Jameis struggles, that can be tolerated unless it’s 3-4 straight games. But, bone headed plays are selfish and inexcusable.

  91. Bucsfanman Says:

    Now ’87! If you don’t know me by now….
    Nowhere in my statements do I separate the QB win/loss. Win/loss is a TEAM statistic.

    “With your scenario, and the Bucs going 9-7, I would retain Koetter but not offer the huge contract to Jameis. I’d make him play out his 5th year before making that decision contingent upon 9-7 being a baseline.
    Anything less than 9-7, EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE gets fired. There’s no excuse for this offense, especially based on the 3 game sample-size, to not outscore teams even with the defense playing “poorly.” The mistakes in personnel will no longer be overlooked nor will the coaching.”

    Clearly, the statement reads as a team. “Personnel”(Licht), “coaching”(Koetter, Smitty, etc.)
    You’re a tad jumpy my friend! Decaf is your friend!

  92. Bad Eric Says:

    The reason there isnt so many anti Jameis fans here is likely due to them being banned from the comment section. You would be incorrect. –Joe Its sad to see some fans aren’t allowed to have a negative opion of the messiah. Mention the Orange man and the messiah in the same sentence and you are gone. Its sad because I believe we should all be able to express our opinions, at least that’s how America was supposed to be. This website is private property, a private business. These are the not FCC-regulated airwaves. America was always about private companies operating in their own way. Nobody has the right to say whatever they want here, not even Joe. Again, you are incorrect in your assumption above. –Joe

  93. Buc1987 Says:

    JabooBuc …and I just want the Bucs to win the Super Bowl. I don’t care if Chris Conte(he sucks) groped my grandmother if he’s the best shot at winning one that’s who I want on my team.

    Booger : “I talked to many in the organization and they say they trust Winston going forward and that this incident happened 2 years ago. He’s been nothing but a saint since.” (not exact)

    Did you have your TV turned down for that?

  94. gilhealy Says:

    Read JW’s quotes in the NFL Network article just out. I don’t see a problem, and never have. Relax. The team knows what’s up. Breath. Godeep and his cuck friends have an agenda and garner no respect. They’re idiots. Jameis is the man, and will remain so for years to come.

  95. gilhealy Says:

    Why do you take so long to reference the article on the NFL Network, Joe? Get it done. It beats speculation.

  96. JabooBuc Says:

    Once again, he is forgetting the lying part. I promise you the organization didn’t forget though.

  97. Defense Rules Says:

    @Bucsfanman … “With your scenario, and the Bucs going 9-7, I would retain Koetter but not offer the huge contract to Jameis. I’d make him play out his 5th year before making that decision contingent upon 9-7 being a baseline.”

    And I’d do EXACTLY the same thing. And with hundreds of millions on the line, I can’t see the Glazer Boyz doing anything else. It takes awhile to regain trust.

  98. __TGH__ Says:

    Love Ian, he’s wrong on this one. Jameis won’t ask for a trade. He is going to sit tight, wait for Fitz to fall apart and come in to save the day. He’ll have a long term deal in place with the Bucs before the end of the season.

  99. Buc1987 Says:


    I should have stated your past statements. 18-27 or something like that. I don’t even know his w-l record. Cause I don’t care. He came to a crappy team that’s been crappy for over a decade. With or without him.

    Hell they could maybe get rid of him tomorrow and they’d still suck for the next decade. We’d be blaming some other schmuck for our ills. It used to be Schiano or Freeman. Then Lovie and his outdated scheme. Now we blame Jameis. When he’s gone will just move onto the next….

  100. buc15 Says:


  101. Big Stinky Says:

    I can’t wait until all this controversy is over, I am tired of reading the same comments over and over again. Plus I want to see if Jameis plays any better this year with his future at stake. Somehow I feel like he still is not going to be able to hit the deep ball which this offense needs to be successful. Watching Fitzy Monday night reminded me of JW and how inaccurate he has been. The game was the same as all of Winston’s games with us playing from behind and coming up short. Can’t believe JW beat the Saints last year after throwing 3 INT’s, maybe he has turned the corner. I hope Jameis plays better this year when he finally gets his chance with the new playcalling. Watch Fitzpatrick throw for another 400 yards against the Bears and make the decision difficult for Dirk. Would love to see Fitzy break some more records before he’s done. I actually can’t believe that a Bucs QB holds those records now. How bad is JW going to look when he comes back after watching Fitzpatrick light it up? I want Jameis to succeed because I don’t want to waste another 3 years on a new QB. We are running out of time with all the weapons we have on offense.

  102. Buc1987 Says:

    TWO YEARS…..that’s a long time to get to know a person better between incident and lies. I’m sure they know who he is.

    For all we know the Glazers could ABSOLUTELY love Jameis Winston. They know him more than you or I do.

    They trust him going forward means what? Nothing? Booger was lying on MNF?

  103. JabooBuc Says:

    Nobody’s blaming JW for the team sucking. We are blaming him for being an idiot and probably unworthy of the opportunity he’s been granted. I’m all for redemption but my god, how many chances does one man get I think the team has been dropping little hints over the past couple of weeks that they prefer the leadership and maturity of Fitz vs JW. Have yet to hear one player come out say we absolutely need JW back and that he is the difference maker.

    I find this very telling.

  104. Sierra048 Says:

    If the molester starts, this 42 year fan will be rooting dor the Bears.

  105. Bucsfanman Says:

    ’87- All good my friend! I did mention the 18-27 only to say that those type of “statistics” can be replaced and should.
    I want Jameis to be the guy, lord knows it’s taken HOW long for a legit QB to grace One Buc?! My only contention is that if he does not produce, he CAN be replaced.
    Nobody in their right mind can blame last year’s 5-11 ALL on Jameis Winston. The same for Fitz and his 2-1 start and three 400 yard games. A lot of things have to go right or wrong. It’s NEVER one guy.

  106. Buc1987 Says:

    Big Stinky….the weapons were just pieced together over the last couple of years, Desean has been here 2 years. OJ’s 2nd year. Godwin’s 2nd year. Evans is still young. Winston is still young.

    How much more time do you think they’ve got?

  107. Jameis Almighty! Says:

    Blame Jameis already… I gotta stop reading the comments. Goodness the hate for this man..

  108. simeon 97 Says:

    his commentary is stupid. It’s not so black and white.

  109. Resurrection of Fitz Says:

    Maybe this is news for some not Marino, Montana, Fouts, Breesnor Manning has done what Fitzmagic is bringing to us Bucs fans. 3rd consecutive game of 400 yards or more. When that goes away and we start loosing consecutive games I want to see Jameis back.

    This would be a great proof of how much maturity Jameis has gain lately.

    Time to hold the clipboard kid.

    Only in the media there is a qb controversy.

    Go Bucs!!!

  110. Bucsfanman Says:

    Defense Rules- It’s a HUUUUGE investment, one that should not be taken lightly. And it’s not solely based on off the field stuff either. He needs to perform at a high level. That’s what a franchise QB is expected to do.

  111. ben Says:

    if bucs can get a top 20 draft pick trade him !!

  112. Buc1987 Says:

    Jaboo…you haven’t heard anyone say anything. Besides Koetter. You can speculate all you want. So can I, but we’re not in the locker room. He’s been here 3 years with an infectious personality, I doubt no one has his back. That’s just my opinion.

    Your opinion is most of the team doesn’t trust him cause no one is coming out and defending him. Defending him over what? Whether he should start or the suspension? Cause if it’s about the Uber deal…..I wouldn’t say a GD thing myself.

  113. gilhealy Says:

    Ben, shhh. Adults are talking. Go out a play.

  114. Buc1987 Says:

    ben…if he sucks so bad no one would offer it.

    If he sucks like you ALWAYS say dating back, back, back….then no one would give a 6th rounder for him.

    Dayum this fanbase is mental.

  115. gilhealy Says:

    Fella’s I’m telling ya, go the NFL website and read the article. Jameis spells it out for you. You guys are over thinking it. Jameis isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

  116. JabooBuc Says:

    I didn’t say defend him. I said they aren’t talking about him as if he’s needed. DJax comes out and says ride with Fitz. Evans says basically the same thing. Can you imagine anyone of the Steelers or Packers or Saints, Patriots, Falcons saying that. It would be front page news.

    Not here though.

  117. Wausa Says:

    @gilhealy and @Buc1987

    I agree 100% with you guys.

    We have idiotic comments saying to get rid of Jamies to get a first round pick because Jamies sucks.

    My guess is some of the people posting on this board must be 10 year olds.
    Again, why would a team trade a first round pick for Jamies if he is so bad?

  118. JabooBuc Says:

    You might get a 3rd from a desperate team for him

  119. ChanEpic Says:

    So JW is terribly nonredeemable but we should also get a top 20 pick for him in a trade? Do you people read your comments?

  120. Buc1987 Says:

    Jaboo….the only comment that should matter is Koetter’s. I’m sure you’ll see plenty of players speak out on Jameis’ defense.

    So you think DeSean and Evans were dissing Jameis by saying ride the hot hand? Hell I was saying ride Fitz until the wheels fall off. I even said Jameis himself would say the same thing.

    @Joe you’ve TMZ’ed this site out so much this is what we get…..

  121. Tnew Says:

    Koetter has shown time and time again he makes conservative decisions based on short term results. This will be the same. He should be honest and say who gives me the best chance to win every game this season?? If his answer is truly Fitz, why didn’t Koetter believe that last year and make the call??

    There is no doubt in my mind Winston saved Koetter’s job down the stretch this year. Hot hand you say, how about the qb that led the conference in passing for the last quarter of the season and the entire league during preseason.

    Fitz is a great backup, but the NFL is a last possession league now. Fitz showed himself on the last drive with three passes that were bad in decision and execution. Third down wasn’t even close. Winston delivers on the last drive. This can’t be argued.

  122. Buc1987 Says:

    on Jameis’ behalf*

  123. Grt1 Says:

    If the Bucs bench the best QB in franchise history,I’ll be done . That would be the final nail in the coffin.

  124. JabooBuc Says:

    Can you imagine “Matt Cassel has been tearing it up. Let’s ride that hot hand while Brady holds the clipboard”- Gronk.

  125. ChanEpic Says:

    How many come from behind victories does Fitz have since he’s been a Buc? Now ask that same question about JW: 5 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 8 Game-Winning Drives

    Biggest no brainer in the history of no brainers.

  126. ChanEpic Says:

    @Jaboo, well played sir. LOL

  127. Walter Seidel Says:

    God, I hope this story is ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!!!

  128. JabooBuc Says:

    Look, I’ll be the first to say I thought he played well during the last 4 games last year and the rest of the team was pathetic. My problem is definitely what he has done off the field including lying to his team. I think many of vets had stopped looking at him as a leader after The whole Eat W’s fiasco (my guess is that it’s been wearing thin for a while). He’s not s leader of men because he’s still a child. Very talented but very much a child.

  129. Buc1987 Says:

    Brady is Brady

  130. gilhealy Says:

    Walter,shhhh. Go outside and play with Ben. The adults don’t want to be bothered with silly babble.

  131. Buc1987 Says:

    Let’s compare the GOAT to Matt Cassell tearing it up… Fitz and Jameis.

    wtf? Really? can you give me a better one. Perhaps not a QB that’s made it to the playoffs. There was a debate in Philly over the summer Wentz or Foles. Wentz was a 1st rounder….

  132. JabooBuc Says:

    BTW, I read the article and he’s certainly saying the correct things. Just show it by no thanks being an ass going forward.

  133. Godeep66 Says:

    LATEST RUMOR: JW sent to the Giants. Giants send Eli Manning to San Fran and the Bucs get two second round picks. Bucs then use these picks to race up and get Herbet out of Oregon. Herbert then holds the clipboard and learn under Fitzpatrick for a year.

  134. Godeep66 Says:

    All you snowflakes said JW was starting the Chicago game. What Happened???????????

  135. unbelievable Says:

    Bucs fans if Jameis threw 3 INTs and then racked up a lot of yards in the 2nd half:

    “Those are just meaningless garbage time stats! He lost us the game!”

    Bucs fans when Fitz throws 3 INTs and then racked up a lot of yards in the 2nd half:

    “He three for 400 yards! Record setter!”

    Lol. YCMTSU.

    Best start to a season in years and this fan base appears to be more mornoic than ever.

  136. JabooBuc Says:

    There was no debate about Wentz. Everyone up there knows who the man is there. In my previous post I gave you several examples.

  137. Buc1987 Says:

    Foles won a friggin SB and fans want Wentz back…..CAUSE he’s the better QB.

  138. unbelievable Says:


    Do you already have your new screen name picked out for when you change it again in 2 weeks?

  139. Buc1987 Says:

    Godeep….the poster child for the pro-choice movement.

  140. JabooBuc Says:

    Wentz is not an ass and a better QB. You are correct.

  141. gilhealy Says:

    JabooBuc, if you don’t think Winston is the better QB, there’s no reason to read your posts. Wise up.

  142. ChanEpic Says:

    GoDeep, I just heard another Rumor. Jesus Christ comes down from Heaven and we trade everyone on the team to all of the other teams in the NFL. Jesus goes on to play defense, offense, special teams and President of Football operations for another 1,000,000,000 years where the Bucs win the SB every time by the score of 200,000 to -55,000,00 points. In the 1,000,000,001 year of the Jesus Christ Superbuc era, Bucs fans scream for him to be replaced by the starting QB of the Mars Ducks after coming off of his first intergalactic championship.

  143. Buc1987 Says:

    Jaboo…that’s YOUR opinion…again…you don’t speak for the players.

    Jameis is a better QB than Fitz. Period.

  144. Buc1987 Says:

    Foles was LIGHTING it up and WON a Super Bowl.

    A Super Bowl. THEE Super Bowl.

    I want the Bucs to win more Super Bowls too.

  145. passthebuc Says:

    Sound’s like too many people are trying to lobby the bucs into what they think is best.
    I am not casting aspersions mind you bet, if the shoe fits, wear it.

  146. passthebuc Says:

    Keep JW, get rid of JW, it is all nonsense. Let’s call it like it is. JW to date is not an elite QB. Should he be, will he be, only time will tell. Currently, I rate JW between 12 and 15 in the NFL. That is before the current crop of QB’s are evaluated.
    However having said that, before I would pay him 30M per year on a long term deal, I would trade him. I would use those picks to shore up my D. and a new right O tackle, guard, and running back.

  147. AlteredEgo Says:

    Joe needs to put up another story about Jameis….this is too far to scroll down to read the writings of each other pissing in the others boots

  148. ben Says:

    Winston has NOT been worth the #1 pick in the draft… He doesn’t scare anyone on the field so Fitz will start who has a much better % of wins .

  149. mike Says:

    Jw is going to play soon. If he is good, he will be here long term. It’s pretty simple.

  150. DBS Says:

    Go deep Do you have the rest of your user names to back you up on that ready too?

  151. Bucsdelight Says:

    Trade for Le’Veon Bell?

  152. Defense Rules Says:

    Bucsfanman … “It’s a HUUUUGE investment, one that should not be taken lightly. And it’s not solely based on off the field stuff either. He needs to perform at a high level. That’s what a franchise QB is expected to do.” No question that Jameis represents a HUUUUGE investment for the Glazers … and that’s why I think Jameis will not only have to work hard THIS year to regain their trust, but also NEXT year (at about $21 mil of course). And I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they franchise-tagged him for 2020 and MAYBE even 2021. There’s a LOT ON THE LINE insofar as the “Jameis Decision’ goes.

    BTW, it’s kind of hilarious actually scanning all these various comments (150-plus to this point). Kinda reminds me of watching a group of little kittens batting around a ball of yarn (thrown in their midst by Joe of course).

  153. 813bucboi Says:

    ndog nailed it!!!!!


  154. lambchop Says:


    The decision is already made and kept in house. Fitz, Jameis, and the team know what it is. This is strategy and nothing more. You don’t show your hand to your opponent – especially to a defense like the Bears.

    I think you’re thinking too much about it with your statement that they are screwing this up by not making a decision and ruining the trust with Jameis. Every team does this. Whatever edge you can get, you exploit it. Let em prepare for both QBs and have to play different styles of defense in practice.

    Also, let’s not forget that Jameis didn’t inform the team about the incident and that it was going to come out and hurt the team. Trust goes both ways.

  155. Knoxville Buc Fan Says:

    not worth the number one pick? Damn some of you are so ignorant when it comes to football. Drinking the Kool~Aid from everyone out there that writes anything negative about America’s Quarterback. All they want is you dumb fu(ker$ to click and/or listen to their little podcast to appease their advertisers. There’s no debate no controversy, Bucs would like to get out of paying the millions JW deserves and media want you to click and/or listen/watch. Those of us that were fans and witnessed back in the day how Doug Williams got the boot! We was close then and it set the organization back for years after that debacle. Same thing here will happen! Wonder if the races were switched between the 2 QB’s if there would be any doubt who’s starting up there in the Windy City

  156. JabooBuc Says:

    87 – couple of things…first, Wentz was out due to an injury. Winston was out due to stupidity. Huge difference.

    Second, there is no debate from me as to who is the more physically gifted QB on this roster. Obviously, JW should be the choice based on natural ability. However, that doesn’t always mean the best fit for a team. This team, in my opinion, is fighting for Fitz due to his intelligence on the field and leadership. The skill positions on this team are off the chart so it doesn’t need the guy with the best gun necessarily to play QB.

    Let’s not forget that while Fitz threw a couple of pics the other night that we can argue about as to whether were his fault, he also threw a couple of TD passes to Godwin that were dropped. He made the plays to win that game on Monday and everyone knows it.

    I think it would be good for JW to sit and watch for a while to see what an authentic leader and distributor of the football looks like.

  157. BringBucsBack Says:

    If Jameis is the consummate pro that everyone believes him to be, he should fully understand why he is not going to start until there is a reason for him to do so.

  158. Memo Says:

    JW stopped being the Bucs QB the morning he started eating Ws in front of teammates. His performance on Hard Knocks gave us a glimpse of his pea sized brontosaurus brain.Hello the guy is an imbeciles!

    Why delay the inevitable get rid of his ass ASAP.