A Cheap Roll Of The Dice

April 6th, 2018

“Who got released?”

This caught Joe’s attention like someone offering Joe a cold beer to kick off the Friday night activities.

Regular readers of Joe know he simply has no trust that the current Bucs defensive coaches can develop a rookie corner. And, boy, don’t the Bucs need a cornerback.

As we sit here in early April, just about every halfway decent corner has found work. Yeah, Hey Jude is still out there coming off knee surgery and so to is Robert McClain. But now, a corner that is a bit better than those two just got thrown to the curb.

The Rams, who loaded up on corners this offseason, washed their hands today of Kayvon Webster per Kevin Patra of NFL.com. Webster started 11 games last year. For a division winner and a playoff team.

As with many stories however, a bit of digging explains why the Rams parted ways with Webster. He suffered an Achilles injury last December and he may not be ready for training camp.

Joe is of the mind that Webster, hobbled and on one leg, is no worse than a healthy Ryan Smith.

If Joe was Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht, he’d be all over this. Webster can likely be had for a discount. Webster’s base salary for 2018 was to be $3,375,000, per Spotrac.com.

Webster is pretty durable. In his first four years in the NFL playing for Denver he only missed nine games. Last year was Webster’s first season as a regular starter.

The way Joe looks at it, at worst Webster would be a solid backup for a team like the Bucs that is so thin at corner after Brent Grimes, the position is virtually invisible.

Hat tip @CoachCombs66

51 Responses to “A Cheap Roll Of The Dice”

  1. Pete Mitchell Says:

    And he’s a local USF guy if I’m not mistaken.

  2. MJB Says:

    Joe, Licht can draft a rookie better than Kayvon in a couple weeks…just calm down.

  3. 813bucboi Says:

    he has talent…..bring him in….sign him…be don’t count on him to provide a major impact this year…..test VHG and ryan smith…continue to develop them…..in 2019 Webster will be back to 100%…..that’s when you unleash him!!!!!

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!

  4. Brad Says:

    With all due respect, that “pretty durable” label you handed out, Hurd right out the window with a blown Achilles. A lot of guys don’t come back from that injury

  5. Brad Says:

    Don’t come back the same. They lose all their explosiveness for over a year

  6. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    “Joe is of the mind that Webster, hobbled and on one leg, is no worse than a healthy Ryan Smith.”

    That is pretty insulting, Joe….and Ryan Smith can’t even lounge sing.”

  7. ndog Says:

    Yeah a guy that is currently hurt is labeled as durable. SMH at this Joe most of the time.

  8. Joe Says:

    Joe, Licht can draft a rookie better than Kayvon in a couple weeks…just calm down.

    That’s if you think the coaches can develop a rookie corner. Joe is of the thought they cannot.

  9. AlteredEgo Says:

    too many holes up front to be able to “develop” a corner

  10. Lord Cornelius Says:

    I have a feeling they’re waiting to see how the draft plays out before they sign anyone else; so they know how they should prioritize the rest of spending.

    I.e. if we trade down and hit on a bunch of positions we likely arne’t as aggressive.

    If we go Nelson/Michel R1/R2 then I expect us to sign a CB.

    Really feeling the trade down tho.. 3 QB / big 3 gone:

    7 for 12 a 2 and a 3 and Buffalo gets that 4th QB

    12-Vita Vea DT / Derwin James S
    2A-Sony Michel / Ronald Jones II RB
    2B-Michael Hughes / Jaire Alexander CB
    3 – Frank Ragnow / Braden Smith OG
    4 – Duke Ejiofor / Chad Thomas / DE
    5/6/7 – BPA but get another RB; a S or DT depending on R1, and an OT

  11. Capt.Tim Says:

    Damn Joe!
    Ease off Ryan Smith! Mid was a Rookie last year, Starting games on team with the worst pass rush in the NFL!!

    Deon Sanders( the greatest CB of All time) would have looked lke sh*t, with Ayers and Gholsten both laying on their butts every play!!

    Ryan Smith had the backpedal, fluid hips, and MAke up speed to develop into a really good CB.

    Sucks about Hey Jude. He was showing signs of being real dependable.

    A pass rush will give our CBs a chance- for a change.
    We definitely need another good Good CB. Grimes is probably done after this year. Smith will need a sidekick- and Hagreves is never going to develop.

    If we are gonna trash the rookies( who all suck first year), then why bother watching the team. Lack of player develop is the major reason the Bucs have sucked forever!!!

    Give the kids a chance.

  12. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    I get the bashing on VHGIII…His draft position makes him a “possible” bust.

    But the rest of our CB’s? 4th round pick…UDFA…we can do that again this year.

    I do not fault Smitty for the 4th rounder or UDFA….VHG is a problem but how do we know that’s on Smitty and none on VHG or Licht for overdrafting him?

  13. Lamarcus Says:


    I agree. We are only sitting w 15 mil left. So yeah after the draft looks better to sign someone

  14. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    BTW Rolling the dice on a cheap move will take place after draft big time…then we’ll know who the UDFA’s are. Licht seems to do pretty well finding the gems in the league’s rejections.

  15. BetterBuccinBelieveIt Says:

    Don’t forget Buc faithful about probably an even better crop of guys to pick from will be the fully healthy, and possibly expensive players ostracized by the incoming draft class for each team. Those post-draft cuts will be a key crop to pounce on immediately.

    Wait and spend quickly then.

    But first…TRADE UP FOR SA-QUON! Then sit back with a glass of Jack and enjoy the fruits of your labor Jason.

    Go Bucs!

  16. El_Buc941 Says:

    So let me get this straight Joe,a few weeks ago when RICHARD SHERMAN was a free agent you said Licht shouldn’t go after him because of his injury,an Achilles injury,but this guy that isn’t proven your all in?! What’s the difference between this kid and SHERMAN…..oh wait.. SHERMAN is a proven CB! Joe sometimes you worry me..

  17. JimmyJack Says:

    I also think it’s better to adress our CB need after the draft. They might be needing to pay up a little more for someone they can count on if we don’t draft a corner high.

  18. Lamarcus Says:

    I think passing on Sherman was a mistake….. I get he wanted to play for the rival but damn what a miss

  19. Alanbucsfan Says:

    Derwin James can play slot corner or safety
    Give Hargreaves a shot with a decent DL at outside corner

  20. JimmyJack Says:

    Buc941……I’m pretty sure when Joe said no to Sherman there were a lot of CBs on the market that he wanted over Sherman….not that it mattered. Sherman wanted to go to SF.

    Now that the CB market is dried up Joe is getting desperate. And let’s be honest……Reading about Joe squirming in desperate panics adds a deal of entertainment to this site. Also something most fans can probably
    relate with.

  21. JimmyJack Says:

    I don’t think the Bucs were ever any serious buyers for CB free agents. Their plan was to focus solely on the lines.

    I’ve liked their plan so far. We will have three guy competing for that CB spot. And no, I’m not including R.Smith

  22. REdtop5588 Says:

    I don’t understand why everyone is so hard on VHG 3 we were last in pass rush I will wait to judge him until after a year where we actually have some pretty good DEs who can get after the QB An not have our CBs out on islands with all the time in the world to throw without any pressure or hits an deff no sacks now with our improved DLine it should make our whole D a lot better GO BUCS

  23. lambchop Says:

    Colin Cowherd has Barkley falling to 9 and Bucs passing on him to pick Minkah Fitzpatrick at 7. Lmao. Dumbest mock I’ve seen in a few days.

  24. webster Says:

    @ lamarcus

    How is it a miss? The bucs had no shot at him. It takes two in free agency. He wanted to go to san fran. Just like talib said he only wanted to be traded to either the rams or pats due to his connection with billecheck and wade phillips. Jesus the bucs dont have any control over those things. Guess what, we got curry because of his relationship with beau allen. See how that works?

  25. JimmyJack Says:

    Lol lamb chop…….This site may cease to exist if that happens. Joe HQs might just implode on itself.

  26. Lamarcus Says:


    Yes mistake. Money talks Bs can take a hike. I would of dropped 3 yrs 60 with 20 guarantee for 2 years for Sherman. He can’t refuse that. Sherman changes culture and would of brought good tv to the South because of Michael Thomas and JJ

    Vin Curry only came because no one else would of paid no 29 mil for him.

  27. Lee Says:

    He’s a special teamer/fourth corner. That being said, he still might be the Bucs’ no. 2.

  28. NJBucsFan Says:

    He’s probably going to resign with the Rams. I’ve been reading it’s a cap saving move. He likes to play under Wade Phillips and followed him from Denver to LA

  29. BucEmUp Says:

    Before garapalo started that division was crap and they had the highest scoring offense in the league by far, that guy was not the reason they were so good. Put him against the qbs in this division paired with the worst DC in the entire league and I’ll say hard pass

  30. Rrsrq Says:

    Ryan Smith for Most Improved Buc…, calling it right now, just so he can show Joe…, I thought he played better after the Falcons game against the Panthers and Saints, he actually played better the second Falcon game than the first. He just needs the confidence to know he can play in this league.

  31. JimmyJack Says:

    Hahaha Lamarcus there isn’t an owner in the league that’s going to pay somebody that much money more then they are worth.

    These guys are multi billionaires, they wouldn’t be there if they were in th3 habit of pissing away 10 million dollars for nothing

  32. BigHogHaynes Says:

    Ryan Smith : break out year, no thanks to the coaching staff who thought he was a safety …CONTINUE TO BUILD A WALL ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BAY!!

  33. Lamarcus Says:


    DM 6.75 mil….waste
    Baker waste
    Ward waste
    Anthony Collins waste
    Gholston waste
    Michael Johnson waste
    Djx waste
    Grimes waste or borderline

    This list can go on forever

    Can you tell why Sherman getting 10 mil is a waste?

  34. SCBucsFan Says:

    We are OK signing him with the bad Achilles but not Breeland with the infected heel cut. That’s logical.

  35. feelthepewterpower Says:

    Joe didn’t want Sherman (achilles), no? But wants Webster?

  36. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    “Joe is of the mind that Webster, hobbled and on one leg, is no worse than a healthy Ryan Smith.” – J0E

    Not a very fair statement considering Ryan Smith had one season at CB and limited starts.

  37. Lamarcus Says:

    Ryan smith is even taking teams number 1 receivers also. And he tackles better than Grimes.

  38. I Bleed Pewter and Red Says:

    Ryan Smith was left on an island last year that was a major weak link, and the opposition took complete advantage of it like any responsible smart offense would do. This, not because of his lack of talent level (4th round pick) but rather that he was a 4th round pick that lacked NFL experience with many early season distractions, a weak front seven d-line, lost time for developmental adjustment against world class speeds weekly, unlike college.

    Training camp is too regulated by certain rules now that changed the amount of time players actually have to learn by training I believe by having (let’s hope) a stronger pass rush, and another training camp without HBO, hurricanes, etc… Ryan Smith will be more competitively prepared. Vernon is the most disappointing corner who underachieved but he had all the same distractions as Ryan Smith.

    As a whole this squad should put up better numbers if only for the fact they have gained a year of experience in the same system while heading into their second camp. Draft some corners and let the cream rise to the top. As long as their are no real life distractions this season they should play much better. To say the coaches lack the ability to develop corners is a little shortsighted considering the argument I just laid out for last years rookie class. JMO

  39. Bossmode Says:

    Jude play good when he was on the field and should be better with a pass rush

  40. JimmyJack Says:

    Lamarcus…..Not arguing what Baker was worth. Was arguing Sherman. I guess I just don’t understand your logic of get Sherman…….what? He wants to stay on the West Coast??…….Pay him double!!!

    I never been to a negotiating table. I just don’t see it that way.

  41. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    Agree with your observation.

    What saddens me a bit is our society’s view of money…by the majority. There are still plenty of folks though who have character and haven’t sold their souls for mammon. I concede not many professional athletes though the temptations are perhaps too large.

    But Sherman one interesting cat. He went to Stanford and despite his game time theatrics he’s a very smart dude.

    Now…I’m FAR from wealthy but I am very blessed and consider myself lucky.
    Perhaps Sherman is satisfied with his financial position.

    I mean could it be that a guy worth 18 million already can manage to scrape by on his final contract…which he negotiated himself…for 39 million…virtually 7 million is guaranteed.

    So perhaps given that 18 million in his pocket and the 7 on the table this year he would rather go home than take another five or ten million from the Bucs.
    That shouldn’t be hard to understand but most of us have no idea what 18 million actually buys.

  42. D the Bucs fan Says:

    It’s funny how you keep saying they can’t develop a young corner but fall to mention the team had no pass rush. 22 SACKS!!! VH3 did decent when the team had over 30 sacks. Or m maybe Licht didn’t draft the right corners.

  43. denjoe Says:

    In the words of Dr. Evil You Just don’t get it Scott(Licht).

  44. Lamarcus Says:

    Jimmy jack

    Yea Sherman. I don’t know how negotiate goes but I picture like this. Phone call. Money. Fly down. Sign. Simple as that. Just sign him to change the culture. Plus help my 11th pick in the draft. Teach him to earn his taunts.

  45. unbelievable Says:

    Grimes has been a waste / borderline waste of money?


    Lamarcus I want some what you’re smoking man.

  46. donuts Says:

    achilles = no. Draft a CB in 2nd…the whole coaching thing is over blown…if you have the talent to play in this league you play. I question the talent at CB more than the coaching. Hargreaves has been a bust..and that high pick has cost this team in more ways than one.

  47. delson Says:

    Wasted salary cap space holy fudge donuts how in the fukijima did we do it? Top ten draft pick next year. New coaches and gm (i hope). Most money spent on the weakest roster ever.

  48. BucNole Says:

    I tend to agree this coaching staff seems unable to develop and get the best out of its players – pretty much every position group has had several WTF moments. . . from moving Marpet/Smith around like some puzzle piece – to poor schemes not putting the talent we do have in a position to succeed on a regular basis – to just downright stupid moves by this staff and FO (2rd kicker)
    Its this kind of BS that keeps this team playing catch up with the rest of the league year in and year out – and the one common denominator is the Owners. They helped create this losing culture and dont seem to have the common sense of how to fix it. Some people in the organization needs their tails kicked – I only hope the Glazers put the fear of god in the Staff/FO. . . . get it done or GTFO!!!. . . end of rant

  49. adam from ny Says:

    they’re definitely giving har-grievances another shot…they just aren’t telling the fans yet – because the fans will get crazy…staff and front office consensus is “fix the front end and the back end will look a lot better too”…they really just need a back up plan if he flops out…they will resign mcclain or someone like that to sure up the position if har-weed smokes out on the bucs, and a drafted rookie isn’t prepared to be a full time replacement in year one…

    i’ve been watching you-tube bucs games recently, and we really had some boppers as safeties back in the late dungy and early gruden years – hard hitting active ass dudes…not what we have present day for sure…and i’m not even talking about lynch…i’m talking about the other dudes my buccaneer broheims!

  50. Owlykat Says:

    Who was the best CB in Bucs history? Rhonde Barber; and the best Strong Safety was Lynch. What you might not know is both of them took three years to develop! I watched them do it and the Bucs got a lot more sacks back then. VHIII is as fast as Rhonde was and the same height and also is a playmaker just as Rhonde was. However, VHIII played jamming wide receivers at the line at Florida but was playing stupid four yards off the receiver due to his instructions here and even Ryan Smith had trouble with that scheme last year with all his speed. Both corners need three years NFL starting experience before you can judge them along with a better sacking defense. I have said all along that we should use Free Agency for our CB and Safety but Licht failed to do so. Don’t expect any CB in the draft to be fully ready for the NFL their first year! I agree with Joe on this opportunity to get a CB with some NFL experience.

  51. Owlykat Says:

    However, why not move Tandy to CB and let him start. He has plenty of NFL experience and was a Star CB at WVa.