Bucs Host Another Top CB
April 5th, 2018
Coming to One Buc Palace.
Joe isn’t sure if this is just a cruel troll job to thinking, alert Bucs fans or an elaborate way to boost the egos of a troika of defensive coaches who have done a poor job with rookie corners.
For the second time this week, the Bucs welcome a top shelf cornerback to One Buc Palace, part of the team’s 30 allotted visits. Today’s victim stud is Louisville cornerback Jaire Alexander, reports Jenna Laine of ESPN.
Of course, many Bucs fans will slam their beer mugs on the bar in rage because Alexander is but 5-10. Joe doesn’t care if a corner is four-foot tall. If a guy can cover, he can cover. Or as Vernon Hargreaves once told Joe, “If you can ball, you can ball.”
Joe is more concerned that Alexander is dinged up often.
April 5th, 2018 at 1:05 pm
Joe,
What’s more tiresome? Your hatred of Charles Simms skill set, or the failure to develop a rookie CB?
Only one CB has “failed” to develop, Heargraves. Ryan smith and Javien Elliot are a fourth round pick and an undrafted guy.
I’ll concede Heargraves has stunk, but it’s tough to say the coaches “failed” to develop a 4 th rounder who’s has changed position and an undrafted guy.
Blame Licht for taking a scrub CB 11th overall. That’s where the fault lies.
April 5th, 2018 at 1:06 pm
Rachel Watson called, she said it’s time to turn the page!
Next track, please.
Love you , Joe!
April 5th, 2018 at 1:06 pm
@VHIII … “If you can ball, you can ball.” Good to be confident. Better to be confident AND good. VHIII needs to focus on the latter. (Alexander would be a decent 2nd Rnd pick BTW).
April 5th, 2018 at 1:07 pm
Isaiah Oliver FTW
April 5th, 2018 at 1:12 pm
Yes!
April 5th, 2018 at 1:18 pm
Don’t “hate” Charles Sims. Very much dislike lack of production.
And given the fact Sims is unemployed, Joe’s fairly certain his eval of Sims’ worth as an NFL running back was fairly accurate.
April 5th, 2018 at 1:19 pm
Joe,
I think I can speak for most fans on here. We don’t have a problem with the Bucs drafting Ward or Jaire Alexander, but we do have a problem drafting them in the top 10 of the draft.
Top 10 draft choices should have great size, strength and speed for their position.
Ward and Alexander have great speed but they do not have great size.
Barkley, Chubb, Nelson and James all have great size and speed for their positions.
April 5th, 2018 at 1:20 pm
We can’t ignore CB forever. We all knows this is most likely Grimes’ last year with us, so who is going to be CB1 next year? Hargreaves? I hope not. We can’t constantly rely on FA to fill this hole, we must look into the draft eventually. I see your point of this coaching staff’s failure to develop VHIII, Ryan Smith, Elliott, etc, but we can’t hang onto the failures of the past. If we continue this logic, we’ll be reliant on 30 something CBs for the rest of our lives! We need to draft a corner, and it needs to happen soon. If we don’t address it now, we’ll be paying for it for the next few years.
Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.
April 5th, 2018 at 1:24 pm
I’m pretty positive if we go CB it’s going to be a shorter athletic guy who can play both inside and outside.
They will train him at both then let him battle VHIII for the outside spot; and shift whoever loses inside.
Both Hughes / Alexander are top of R2 type targets I’d imagine. I don’t think we have a set plan as much as we’re trying to be flexible.
IMO – the value at the top of R2 is in CB and RB.
OG drops off after Nelson/Wynn/Hernandez
DT drops off after Vea/Payne/Bryan/Hurst
DE drops off after Chubb/Davenport/Landry/ – and again after Hubbard/Key
S drops off after James/Minkah
But CB will go deep into R2 along with RB.
This creates a lot of potential paths – but the worst I see is taking a CB or S at 7.
Go Barkley R1 – then we hope that Hernandez or Wynn is there R2 and maybe move up for them; and if they aren’t there we likely go CB R2 and OG or DE/DT R4.
Go Nelson R1 – then I think we go RB R2 to pair with our nasty interior.
Go Chubb R1 – then i think it’s BPA at RB or CB R2 – whichever is higher on our board
In a trade back scenario where say we get 12, another 2, and a 3rd
12-Davenport DE / James S / Vea DT
2A – RB or CB
2B – RB or CB
3 – OG
4- BPA of either DT/DE/S based on what we did at 12
I think in R3 we could hit on a Ragnow / Bradn Smith / etc as a starting OG. Maybe even R4 actually.
But value in R2 is RB & CB.
April 5th, 2018 at 1:25 pm
RB/OG/DE/DT/CB
I don’t care about S unless it’s James. Those 5 positions are what I want to see selected.
April 5th, 2018 at 1:27 pm
Just don’t trade up to take a kicker that isn’t even on the team after two years. There’s no way they top that, unless they try.
April 5th, 2018 at 1:28 pm
it’s hard to be a great CB without a pass rush….no matter who is coaching. I think we will draft one in the top rounds and one in the later rounds. If we don’t get what we want in the draft they will sign one of the free agents.
April 5th, 2018 at 1:51 pm
I’ve been very disappointed with VH3 so far but let’s not forget how abysmal our defensive line pressure has been.
Revis and Sherman in their primes would have looked average at best with our pass rush last year!
Kind of like the poor running game… a running back can’t do much with lousy o-line play.
Build the trenches = building a winner!
April 5th, 2018 at 1:53 pm
Coaching staff won’t be around forever another bad season and they’re gone.
April 5th, 2018 at 2:15 pm
Just shows the intelligence of Joe. He finds a buzz phrase and just keep repeating it over and over. These articles read like a 5th grader wrote them.
April 5th, 2018 at 2:23 pm
So Joe is supposed to write things he doesn’t believe in just to make you happy? That’s rather dishonest, isn’t it?
April 5th, 2018 at 2:25 pm
That’s one way to look at it… provided they aren’t ruined past the point of no return by then.
April 5th, 2018 at 2:29 pm
Oh wow go figure that there’s another top prospect corner in the draft besides Ward or Fitzpatrick. You can win with second round talent at corner. You can’t have the best player at every position. Get a guy who can play in any system like James at safety, I don’t think Mike Smith defense or play calling ability will improve even with better talent. Trade down Licht
April 5th, 2018 at 2:34 pm
lol if you let a single coaching staff in just 1 or 2 seasons “ruin” your career then you sucked to begin with – at least mentally. That’s not on the staff.
Mike Smith didn’t seem to ruin Grimes’ career when he had him early on.
Casey Hayward had 14 total passes defended in 32 games with Greenbay from 13′-14′
He has 42 defended passes the last 32 games – playing for the Chargers.
Is that coaching? Is it him just figuring his sh1t out finally? Or is it the fact that the Chargers the last 2 years have a pretty dominating front that can get pressure on teh QB while the Packers have been lacking there?
Who knows man lol. THere is a lot of nuance to the secondary in the NFL and how people perform. But there is very little nuance to D-line’s getting pressure. That’s all pure talent / nastiness. It’s easier to find that in the draft then project CBs / S’s across various schemes – especially if they go to teams with sh1t for a pass rush.
I guarentee – if VHIII went to the Broncos as a rookie for example- his play would look pretty damn different his first 2 years. I also guarentee Marshon Lattimore doesn’t have the same success with the Bucs as he did with the Saints – who actually have a decent front now
April 5th, 2018 at 2:41 pm
Lord:
It isn’t about starting slow, it is about regressing. All three young corners that have come on board under Mike Smith/Jon Hoke/Brett Maxie have regressed. They haven’t gotten better. They haven’t stayed status quo. They have regressed.
Joe’s a big coaches guy. That’s both good and bad. When three guys all regress, in Joe’s eyes, that’s on coaches. One guy is a problem. Two guys is an issue. Three guys is a pattern.
Joe ***hopes*** he is dead wrong but until or unless Hargreaves/Smith/Elliott show some degree of improvement, it is clear to Joe that Smith/Hoke/Maxie don’t know what they are doing with young corners.
Joe doesn’t give a damn what these coaches have done in the past. Joe can cite all sorts of coaches all afternoon long who had success in the past but you wouldn’t want near your team now.
April 5th, 2018 at 2:43 pm
The secondary is in such need of repair we almost have to get another 1-3 round pick. We cant assume Grimes stays healthy all season if does great but if he misses any time it’s almost a guaranteed lost. We definitely need a young rb and we only have 2 picks in the top 3. Licht is going to have to work some wonders in this draft.
April 5th, 2018 at 2:56 pm
The Bucs need to come away from the draft with a starting corner and another highly rated corner who can step into the #3 slot if VH3 doesn’t bounce back. You have to pay attention to the board and how it falls, but going into the draft if I was the Bucs I’d be looking to spend the top 3 picks on corner, corner, safety. RB wouldn’t be on my list of things to address since you can always find a RB – and more veteran RBs will likely be available post draft – or you trade say a 6th rounder in 2019 for a guy like CJ Anderson who the Broncos want to get rid of but don’t want to give away.
April 5th, 2018 at 2:57 pm
@Joe
I guess I just think the only obvious regression is Hargreaves.
Smith didn’t play a snap in 2016 so I’m not sure how anyone can say he regressed because he played poorly in 2017. There was no baseline of production there; and I don’t think he got worse as the season went on personally. For all we know he would have actually been even worse if he started as the outside CB in 2016.
Elliot has played limited snaps and never been a featured prominent starter. Of course VHIII would play over him in nickle. And if he got beat out by McClain that doesn’t mean he regressed either – considering McClain played pretty well. Just nothing there to conclude definitely imo.
So basically this entire opinion is based on 1 player in any sort of valid way imo- and 1 season of regression.
Not big enough of a sample size for that conclusion is all imo; but I understand the lack of faith since there’s no example of them getting more out of a secondary player – other than maybe Keith Tandy in 2016.
I hope you’re not right as well lol
April 5th, 2018 at 3:15 pm
Really?
we already have a nickel cornerback-his name is VH3–our 1st round pick of 2016
April 5th, 2018 at 3:36 pm
hughes and alexander are man press CB’s……drafting either for smitty’s scheme will be putting them in position to fail….but shoot the messenger!!!!!!!
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
April 5th, 2018 at 3:42 pm
Joe Says:
“All three young corners that have come on board under Mike Smith/Jon Hoke/Brett Maxie have regressed. They haven’t gotten better. They haven’t stayed status quo. They have regressed.”
Javien Elliot barely even saw the field last year and was a UDFA. How does a guy with less than a 5% chance of “making it” in the NFL coming in and with limited tape to even judge from qualify as an example of a CB “regressing”?
Ryan Smith (4th rd pick with a less than 25% statistical chance of “making it” in the NFL coming in) absolutely progressed throughout the season last year. Obviously and visibly. To deny that and state the opposite is simply denying reality – trying in vain to support this silly narrative that a Joe is clinging to and keeps parroting in multiple articles each week – as if repetition will make it believable….
Silliness – that’s all it is. Even your own “teammate” Ira is laughing at this preposterous notion.
April 5th, 2018 at 3:52 pm
And I like Jaire Alexander for the Bucs if he’s on the board when pick #38 rolls around.
Some saying they like Hughes from USF here. I say give me the 4.38 – 40 guy over the 4.53 player all day long.
Short is one thing (both are 5′-10″) – short and slow is a bad (more like deadly) combination for an NFL CB – regardless of “ball skills” (which Jaire seems to have plenty of btw).
April 5th, 2018 at 4:51 pm
Jaire Alexander has the skills to be a great NFL cornerback
Glad to see they are talking to him
April 5th, 2018 at 5:17 pm
Walter Football ends their draft profile of Jaire Alexander with this:
“”He also was a dangerous punt returner. There is a lot of upside for Alexander to develop. – Alexander could end up being a second-day steal.”
April 5th, 2018 at 5:55 pm
Again if you have the finest material and the suit sucks, get rid of the tailor.
April 5th, 2018 at 6:11 pm
PREPOSTEROUS!!!
Word of the YEAR Candidate!!!
April 5th, 2018 at 6:43 pm
@Pickgrin
As frequently happens we’re on the same page. I’m glad you brought up the fact that basically…Joe is taking ONE disappointing player…and perhaps that player is Licht’s mistake as much as Smith or Hoke…perhaps they share the blame or perhaps…wait for it….it’s the player’s fault. Maybe Hargreaves had some major personal issues last year. I thought he showed some promise his rookie year.
But if Joe believes this coaching staff should have made good DB’s out of an UDFA and a 4th round draft pick then what is all the furor about?.
We can find their replacements in the 4th round or sign more UDFA’s which is the route I believe we’ll take. I certainly would not take ANY CB in this draft over Nelson or Barkley much less Chubb.
April 5th, 2018 at 7:08 pm
You guys worry too much what Joe thinks. As of right now his opinion is valid. Our coaching hasn’t done squat with young corners. That’s a fact.
But here’s the kicker…….Our front office obvisously disagrees with Joe. If they had no faith in our coaches they would have gotten rid of them along with the Dline coach.
Now they are getting a third year to prove this narrative wrong that they can’t develope corners. They will have VHIII, Smith, Elliot and likely another drafted corner to work with. The worth of these secondary coaches will be proven this year.
Personally, I disagree with Joe. I’m betting we get better corner play from our young players this year. If that doesn’t happen I’ll have to give it to Joe for calling it. So far all we have gotten is regressed play and guys that aren’t even serviceable at that position. That is unacceptable. They need to figure out that position this year or Joe was right and heads need to roll so we can get better coaching in here.
Til then this staff is in prove it mode IMO.
April 5th, 2018 at 7:51 pm
Update for Ira:
Mel Blount and Night Train Lane aren’t going to be suiting up for the Bucs any time soon, so what would you have them do?
If you mention the names of the turds you posted last week again then It a needs to slam your keyboard over your head.
April 5th, 2018 at 10:46 pm
feelthepewterpower Says:
April 5th, 2018 at 1:07 pm
Isaiah Oliver FTW
THIS.