Tale Of Two Franchises

January 22nd, 2018


Man, how quickly two years go by.

The Bucs had a rookie quarterback still learning the ropes in the NFL and he willed the team almost by himself into a Wild Card chase when the Bucs rolled into Philadelphia and put a beat down on the Eagles in 2015.

America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, went nuts completing 19 of 29 passes for five touchdowns in a 45-17 rout. It was also the last time running back Doug Martin ran for over 100 yards in a game (he gouged the Eagles for 235).

Two years later, both teams almost have completely flipped situations.

The Bucs are in disarray at 5-11 with major holes in the roster. Unfortunately, two of those holes are in areas where the current defensive coaching staff has yet to show any ability to develop young talent.

Meanwhile, the Eagles are heading to the Super Bowl. Shortly after that loss to the Bucs, the Eagles had a housecleaning and actually hired a defensive coordinator largely thought to be among the NFL’s best, only one year removed from his previous NFL defensive coordinator gig. The Bucs? They hired a guy who hadn’t been a defensive coordinator in nine years — and but for five (fluke?) games in 2016 — it shows.

How could this have happened?

Joe will discuss later today in much greater detail.

24 Responses to “Tale Of Two Franchises”

  1. LifeOfABucFan Says:

    Joe…I still find it so disturbing when Spence had mentioned he had learned technique from Simeon Rice who was VISITING the team!! WTF???

    I still cannot get that out of my head..just can’t..

  2. Joe Says:

    Joe…I still find it so disturbing when Spence had mentioned he had learned technique from Simeon Rice who was VISITING the team!! WTF???

    Yeah, that really sticks out, doesn’t it.

  3. Tim Says:

    Teams like the eagles and Rams give me hope. Let’s me know it can be turned around fairly quickly with the right changes. Sadly I’m not sure we will make the right changes. I’m fine wit how giving Dirk another year. But I can not believe we haven’t made any changes to the defensive staff. I thought Smith should have been gone. But at the very least get some new position coaches. My main wish for next year is a pass rush. It should be better. Because I have a hard time believing it can get any worse.

  4. Tim Says:

    “I’m fine with giving dirk another year”

    Way 2 late for me to be typing on my tiny phone screen 😁

  5. Duke Says:

    Life and Joe,

    Add me to the list.

    It was the He (Simeon) showed me things I’ve never seen before, paraphrasing but close. That’s what made me pause and think. If I heard that I’m at minimum going to ask Simeon to hang out at practice a couple more days and let’s see what else can he teach. If Jay Hayes didn’t get with Simeon afterwards to pick his brain, then I think that tells you all you need to know.

  6. Buc4lyfe79 Says:

    Don’t know why anyone would find it “disturbing” that Spence received more honed in position specific guidance from someone who should already be in the HOF as opposed to his position coach whose greatest accomplishment was what…playing in the CFL? Putting together a solid rotation of Dline talent for a franchise that actually puts stock in gathering 1-2nd round Dline talent like the Bengals did is ALOT different than being able to teach the fine art of a craft that you were mediocre at best at.

  7. NFLNut Says:

    ^ I think everyone is saying that Simeon Rice should be ON THE STAFF and not just VISITING the team … they’re saying the Glazers need to SPEND to have the right dudes on STAFF imho

  8. Defense Rules Says:

    Another fascinating beatdown Joe … you managed to get Martin AND the defensive staff in there yet again for being ‘the bad guys’ holding back Jameis & our awesome offense. No mention of Licht & how he’s almost totally disregarded the defense AND upgrading our RB stable. Need to add a bit more perspective Joe.

    For instance, look at the Eagles’ DLine as compared to ours. A total mismatch. They were #4 allowing 18.5 PPG … the Bucs were #22 allowing 23.9 PPG. Of course, Eagles’ defense was helped by their #3 offense that put up 28.6 PPG while the Bucs’ offense managed to come in #18 putting up a whopping 20.9 PPG (of course, that number goes down by almost 2 PPG if we subtract the defense’s contribution but we won’t quibble).

    Oh and that’s right, the Eagles’ offense was #1 in time of possession at 32:44 minutes per game average this year. The Bucs offense you ask? Ya, we came in #19 at 29:43 minutes per game. So the Eagles’ defense was on the field a whole 3 minutes LESS per game than our Bucs’ defense, while their offense put up almost 8 PPG MORE than the Bucs offense. Hmmm, nothing to see there (ya right). But wait, there’s more.

    Eagles’ DLINE is primarily ‘home-grown’ & produced 33 sacks in 2017 (out of the Eagles’ total of 38 sacks … a whopping 87%). Better yet, they had AVAILABILITY … 3 DTs & 4 DEs averaged 15 games each this year. AND THEY ALL PRODUCED (wow, what a concept). Might have had something to do with the fact that they were ALL 1st & 2nd Round picks … most of them drafted by Philadelphia starting in 2010 AND retained by Philadelphia. Man, another great concept.

    o DT Cox (14 games … 5.5 sacks … drafted 2012 Rnd 1 by Eagles)
    o DT Jernigan (15 games … 2.5 sacks … drafted 2014 Rnd 2 by Ravens)
    o DT Allen (15 games … 1 sack … drafted 2014 Rnd 7 by Eagles)
    o DE Graham (15 games … 9.5 sacks … drafted 2010 Rnd 1 by Eagles)
    o DE Curry (16 games … 3.0 sacks … drafted 2012 Rnd 2 by Eagles)
    o DE Barnett (15 games … 5.0 sacks … drafted 2017 Rnd 1 by Eagles)
    o DE Long (16 games … 5.0 sacks … drafted 2008 Rnd 1 by Rams)

    Jim Schwartz is an outstanding DC IMO, but look at what he had to work with. Not just on the DLine, but his LBs & Secondary also. It’s an insult to our defensive staff to keep hammering away at their ‘poor coaching’ when the T-A-L-E-N-T that they’ve had to work with doesn’t even come close to equalling what Jim Schwartz and company have to work with. Not to mention that the Eagles’ offense did so much more to help the Eagles’ defense in terms of putting far more points on the board AND controlling the clock. Nah, too much thinking involved. Bring us Scapegoat Smitty and throw him into the Pit of Misery, THEN everything will be perfect. Dilly dilly.

  9. The Buc Realist Says:

    Bucs 2015 6-10
    Eagles 2015 7-9

    Bucs 2017 5-11
    Eagles 2017 13-3

    What do you mean “Two years later, both teams almost have completely flipped situations” ??????????

    We will mark this right up there with the ” if you lose your “franchise” QB that the season is over!!!!!!!!!!

    Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!

  10. Radman Says:

    The Bucs need to part ways with DC Smith and GM Licht. Smith has never proven himself to be a great DC. Licht is a cheap spending FA nightmare.

  11. D-Rome Says:

    Totally confident, right guys? Two year turnaround vs. entering year 5 for Jason Licht.

    The Bucs? They hired a guy who hadn’t been a defensive coordinator in nine years — and but for five (fluke?) games in 2016 — it shows.

    I’ve been saying it was a fluke for quite some time. At the same time, I can’t blame the team for extending Mike Smith because at that time it really seemed the team had a Dungy-esque turnaround on defense.

  12. The Buc Realist Says:


    I wish the offense would have a five game (fluke?)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. LakeLand Says:

    The Eagles Free Agent Signings 2018

    QB Nick Foles
    RB Legarrete Blount
    WR Alshon Jeffery
    WR Torrey Smith
    OG Chance Womack
    DE Chris Long
    DT Timmy Jernigan
    CB Patrick Robinson

    And they traded for RB Jay Ajayi

    I would say the difference is the GMs

  14. LakeLand Says:

    I meant the 2017 -2018 Free Agents Signings

  15. 813bucboi Says:

    They hired a guy who hadn’t been a defensive coordinator in nine years — and but for five (fluke?) games in 2016 — it shows.


    9-7 was a fluke….only those who votes “totally confident” in week 14 think otherwise…..

    people still screaming talent…..BS….we’re 5-11 but we don’t have 5-11 talent….you cant tell me we have the same talent as…..the bears…the jets….the dolphins….its coaching or lack there of…..GO BUCS!!!!

  16. ShutTheBucUp Says:

    Lakeland is 100% right. The difference is the GM’s. This is Lichts prove it year. If he fails then they need to blow the whole thing up.

  17. Hodad Says:

    It’s not only coaching, it’s about having a vision, and plan for building a team. Licht has been all over the place in his approach. Going after receivers instead of pass rushers, depending on drug addicts at running back. Four years as G.M., and he’s only drafted two D lineman, Spence, a reach, Stevie T a 7th rounder. Licht also let Koetter pick his buddy as D.C., instead of finding a better option himself. When your G.M. calls himself a meathead, you’re doomed to fail.

  18. ndog Says:

    Realist I wish the defense could hold A lead but that is not going to happen. BTW are you related to Mike Smith or something? your blind faith in this guy is really weird.

  19. Bucsfanman Says:

    We always bang on the “why can’t the defense hold the lead” thing to argue for the offense. We just watched 2 of the best defenses in the league fold against well-executed offense, the kind of offenses that don’t fold up shop after going down by 10 points, the kind of offenses that find ways to adjust.
    We have no talent on defense and our offense was a huge disappointment. There’s plenty of blame to go around, it’s not ALL because our defense didn’t stand on a last drive.

  20. 813bucboi Says:

    ndog Says:
    January 22nd, 2018 at 10:12 am
    Realist I wish the defense could hold A lead but that is not going to happen. BTW are you related to Mike Smith or something? your blind faith in this guy is really weird.


    couldn’t have said it better!!!!!!…..its weird isn’t it…lol….GO BUCS!!!!

  21. Brandon Says:

    Mike Smith was the HC in Atlanta for how many seasons? And how many seasons did he field an average defense? I lost count of the number of defensive coordinators he went through. That’s all on him… he sucks, i said it last season, even when we were playing good defense, I wanted him gone. He’s awful, always has been. His D in Jacksonville had more to do with the enormous talent (top two DTs in the league at the time in Stroud and Henderson) on defense and a great running game on offense. He was the Ravens LB coach before that… obviously nothing to do with him.

  22. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    Here is another famous cliche…and remember cliches exist for a reason.

    “Those who can…DO…those who can’t…teach or coach”

    I NEVER assume a great player will make an even decent coach. Some do turn out…especially as position coaches…but how many successful NFL head coaches were great players?

    IMHO great players have a hurdle to leap…it came far easier because of their God given talent than it does for the average player. Not always. One of the reasons I felt Pete Rose made a good manager was because he was not given great talent. He had to work for EVERYTHING he got. He understood players who weren’t gifted.

  23. StPeteBucsFan Says:


    Smitty’s last three years in Atlanta were dramatically effected by the drafting of JJ and the FIVE…yeah count em…FIVE draft picks required to select him.

    JJ’s first year Smitty went 13-3 and claimed Coach of the Year honors.

    Then the absence of draft picks meant the Falcons were unable to address the defensive side of the ball. Gee does this sound familiar?

    So we see Smitty come to Tampa reading #WeaponsforJameis!!!! When we did address the defense we had a bad break with Noah’s shoulder…unpredicatable…and a mediocre pick with VHG.

    What if instead of OJ we had selected the best DL available? May not have been great long term for the Bucs or the best choice…but it would have helped Smitty. Heck Licht took a ton of grief for selecting Evans in the 2nd round!!!!

    If it wasn’t for Licht’s drafting skill or luck we’d really be hosed. 2 of Smitty’s best players were picked in the 4th round.

    What did we expect? Most teams simply do not pick a franchise QB with the top pick and not load up on offensive picks. #WeaponsforJameis!

  24. The Buc Realist Says:


    way to make things up!!!!!! Coach Smitty had 2 defensive coordinators in Atlanta!!!!!!! Brian VanGorder for 4 years and Mike Nolan for the final 3 years!!!

    The defense ranked pts allowed was 11th, 14th, 5th, 18th, 5th, 27th and 27th the last 2 years are outlier mainly because they switched to a 3/4 front but draft all offense during those years!!!!!!

    Go Bucs