First Down Quarterbacks

November 9th, 2017

First down magic.

So, Jameis haters, explain the following, please.

Now of course, Joe overall is a non-believer in quarterback ratings as it is hocus pocus that describes the true rating of a quarterback (unless you truly believe Chad Pennington was a better quarterback than Dan Marino, for example).

As always with some stats, Joe tries to keep an open mind and Joe does admit, in a ballpark sense, quarterback ratings may give an overall general idea if a QB is decent or not.

So with that in mind, per BSPN’s NFL Matchup, only five quarterbacks this season have been more productive on first downs than America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston. And only one of those is a garbage quarterback.

In fact, Jameis, per this stat, is better on first downs than Carson Wentz and Dak Prescott.

So why exactly do the haters want to run Jameis out of town. Who racked up these numbers with a bum shoulder?

43 Responses to “First Down Quarterbacks”

  1. Jman Says:

    Stats are for suckers unless I can manipulate them selectively to defend my case rightJoe?

  2. theodore Says:

    Maybe because Jameis only gets about one 1st down snap per drive?

  3. DBS Says:

    You and cancercon always want to change the rules when it suits you. stats do not matter. W-L matter not personal stats. No excuses. no garbage time stats. As of now he is a loser.

  4. Joe Says:

    Maybe because Jameis only gets about one 1st down snap per drive?


  5. Jman Says:

    Theodore that’s harsh but funny

  6. tmaxcon Says:

    unfortunately theodore is right

  7. JMarkBuc Says:

    Exactly Theodore

    Small sample size

  8. JMarkBuc Says:

    Especially since we hand off up the middle on first down…Everybody knows that

  9. Ryan K Says:

    Joe !!
    Are you serious !!
    This post is pathetic !!
    Who the hell cares about first downs !!
    How about third downs ?!?!?
    How about touchdowns ?!!!!
    How about accuracy ?!?!?
    How about maturity ?!?!
    How about first half of games ?!?!!
    How about progressions ?!?!?
    How about WINS ?!!!!!!!!!???!?
    How sad .. the standards for some in the Bucs community .. Look ! look ! I found a cool selective stat that I can provide, that i kind of think is BS . BUT with ZERO context added to it .. it makes Jameis look good on first downs! Yay ! Stupid Bucs fans Jameis is like one of the best first down QBs .. sooo …

  10. BucFanFromOH Says:

    Theodore straight up savage.

  11. AlteredEgo Says:

    Yawn….typical liberal/progressive/commie tactic….label anyone disagreeing a racist ,hater,etc….

  12. Youngbucs Says:

    Joe please stop

  13. C eh N eh D eh Says:

    Wow…looking for light in a dark tunnel with this…Jameis has done squat and is not even close to the real “Americas QBs”…Wentz and Goff..

  14. DB55 Says:

    Good news for the “fans” above. Ryan Fitzpatrick will play the next two weeks then Ryan Griffin will take over. Jameis may sit the rest of the year and when we win more than 2 games in the second half of the season you can brag about how much better Fitz and Griffin are. 👍

  15. VictorfromBoulder Says:

    How about we stop using “America’s QB” when referring to Jameis. I think “America’s Cheerleader” is a better description. Lets trade this clown and go all out for Kirk Cousins next year.

  16. BucFanFromOH Says:


    Never even considered that, but that is EXACTLY what will happen if we are even competitive (let alone actually win 2). People will be calling to trade JW and have Griff be our savior lol. That being said, I would love to see a few games with Griff starting just to get him some exp and a better evaluation. Fitz wont be our backup next year.

  17. Doolnutts Says:

    We have Fitz the next two weeks what happens if the offense really blows up?? Going to be hard to pin this all on Koetter if we see some offensive effeciancy. And no i am not suggesting benching fitz for Winston but if he does well it means Winston needs to get his act together.

  18. Broy34WantsGruden+Jameis Says:

    Db55 that’s true but this just in: nobody that matters gives a flying flaming like of crap with the delusional and insanity driven people that wanted to start Fitz and then proceed to saying jameis’ stats are in the 4tg quarter against prevent when Fitz played down 31-0 say. The gm doesn’t care the coach doesn’t care the owners do not care. Jon Gruden the next coach of this team does not care. Jameis will be fine. I say to all of you. Watch the eagles rookie year game. Jameis threw 400 like 4,5 tds and no picks. He’s HANDS DOWN the best Qb in 40 years for the Bucs. He’s not going anywhere so let them complain because it serves no point. Can we just starting talking draft and who the next regime will be. Even tho I know who will be coaching

  19. AlteredEgo Says:

    Hell…I want Jameis to be the best QB that ever walked the face of the earth….but I ain’t going to say Yum when the sandwich tastes like sheet….over and over….

  20. DrJ Says:

    theodore Says:
    November 9th, 2017 at 1:04 pm
    Maybe because Jameis only gets about one 1st down snap per drive?

    HAHA !!! BOOOOOOOOOOM !! Fire Them Cannons!!

  21. Bucsfanman Says:

    @AlteredEgo- Agree. There’s only ONE stat that matters, even Jameis would agree (preferably not with his fingers in his mouth!)…………WINS!

  22. DB55 Says:


    I’ve been saying that Winston is NOT Koetter’s Qb for months now. Koetter likes pure pocket qbs like Matty Ice. So he has a type and truly believes his playbook is NOT antiquated. He thinks that he’s been developing Griffin the way ALL nfl qbs should be develop by sitting on the bench for 3 years and learning. But unfortunately he’s wrong, way wrong.

    Consider Koetter was winning with 7-8 a year with David Garrard but knew he could do better so he drafted Blaine Gabbert who has won a total of 9 games 3 seasons.

    So yea once again out with the (cough cough) *old* qb and in with the (cough cough) *new* qb who will execute his playbook cuz they’re “smart”.

    What he doesn’t realize is that his playbook is ineffective and will only generate wins if 3/4 skill players are pro bowlers or hof’ers.

    Anyway wtfdik I’m sure Koetter can get Griffin to run circles around Jameis. Cuz Jameis is a stupid monkey who is a thug and can’t hit the side of a barn. The same Jameis that hadn’t loss a game since pop-warner before he came to this cesspool of self-righteous confederate flag flying ged failing meth heads. But wtf do I know?

  23. Wewantgruden Says:

    I stand corrected as it pertains the JWs ability to improve. Below you can see a positive trend in his development. At that rate he will be a top 10QB in roughly 15 years.
    2015 QBR: ranked 28th
    2016 QBR: ranked 21st
    2017 QBR: ranked 19th

  24. Bucsfanman Says:

    Ah, to be a Bucs fan!

    On a side note, SEMPER FI and Happy Birthday tomorrow to all my Jarhead, Devil Dog, Leatherneck brothers and sisters!

  25. Erik w/ Clean Athletics 'The Kwon Alexander of Bucs fans' Says:

    How’s Jameis doing on 3rd down this year???

    The dude is off his game this season. He’s missing throws that I could personally make 9 times out of 10 when I was a HIGHSCHOOL QB. No lie.

  26. Big Stinky Says:

    I guess Joe thinks Jameis is a better QB than Wentz because of this stat, but who cares? Wentz leads the league in TD’s with 23 and Winston ONLY has 10, let’s be realistic. Some stats shouldn’t even be mentioned Joe! Stop trying to force Jameis on us already, he is inaccurate and that is ALL that matters. I will admit he was playing better this year but that is about it. He still ONLY played good in about 3 games this year but it’s NOT his fault ENTIRELY that we are 2-6. We should be 4-4 or 5-3 but a couple plays in about 3 games has cost us bigtime. He should sit the rest of the year and heal up for a run next year. The excuses are getting old with him and I don’t want to hear about his shoulder again. If it is a problem he shouldn’t be playing, PERIOD! Koetter should get another year to prove himself unless you can bring in Gruden OR Harbaugh, but that’s the ONLY way he should lose his job. Name another QB coach worth getting because I can’t off the top of my head. Who cares if he has lost the team? They do it to EVERYBODY! Get rid of the players who don’t live up to the hype! Stop this coaching carousel we have created in Tampa! Buc fans are to blame for this losing culture as much as the players. Nailed it!

  27. Big Stinky Says:


    That’s too funny Brother! Maybe JW will break into the Top 15 next year!

  28. 813bucboi Says:

    next topic please!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  29. SB Says:

    LOL @ this stat because of Matt Stafford being so low. Did you SEE that guy carve up the field the other night! I WISH Jameis was half of what Stafford is. Time will tell I guess.

  30. SteelStudBuc Says:

    Stats are meaningless right now. Westside crab legs ain’t cutting it

  31. wewantgruden Says:

    I just listened to Ryan Fitzpatrick’s presser. Very refreshing to hear someone speak with correct grammar. I did not hear a gotsta, aint, or fixin to in his entire speech. He also stated that the key to being a successful QB in this league is too stay within your limitations and done try to push too hard. Something he needs to share with J.dumbelu

  32. DB55 Says:


    Wtf does Fitz know about being a winning qb?

  33. wewantgruden Says:


    I think we know what the DB stands for.

  34. BucEmUp Says:

    Cmon Joe how often is Jameis throwing on first down?

    And how about third downs…the most important one of all?

    How about the fact that by the time the receiver runs the route and turns around he has to wait another two seconds before the ball even gets there. Rather than having his timing down with his receivers so they can gain some Y.A.C it’s as if he doesn’t know or doesnt trust the timing of the plays sometimes.

    He has also quit running to pick up easy first downs right in front of him. He has quit using his legs

    An then there is the awesome deep ball he throws. He couldn’t hit a semi truck from 30 yards away it seems.

    Sorry but he looks like sht this year. It’s not the playacting it’s the execution on the field. He has had enough time to do much better than he has.

    The only thing I can point out which I think is the number 1 reason for his regression this year is the defense. When your a young quarterback with high expectations you have to know that the defense is at least going to keep it close. Early in the season the defense showed how much pressure they were going to put on the offense and I think that got in his head. As long as Smith is here the offense will always be swimming upstream.

  35. Buccaneer scotty Says:


  36. Buccaneer scotty Says:

    like the Bucs your website is becoming unwatchable

  37. Ed Schwartz Says:

    My feeling is that yardage is very overated, a QB should be rated on scoring and how long his team maintains possession.

    JW is 17th rated QB in yardage thrown, however with 10 TD’s the following staring QB’s that have played as many games have same or less TD’s:

    Ben Roethlisberger, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Jacoby Brissett, Andy Dalton, Blake Bortles, Tyrod Taylor, Case Keenum, Joe Flacco, Marcus Mariota, Jay Cutler, DeShone Kizer, C.J. Beathard, Trevor Siemian.

    The following QBs have more TD’s than Winston:

    Tom Brady, Alex Smith, Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, Drew Brees, Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff, Philip Rivers, Josh McCown, Derrick Carr, Eli Manning, Zak Prescott, DeShaun Watson, Aaron Rogers.

    Interesting that the group with Winston in it has 5 teams with winning records, the other group has 10 with winning records, the others are .500.

    TD’s win games unless you have a D like Jax or Buffalo which wins because they can run the ball and force a ton of turnovers.

  38. B Coburn Says:

    Well I believe we are also one of the teams with highest run % on first down.. rest of the time we are playing catch up against soft d…. so that skews it. They are surprised when we actually throw and many attempts are against d just preventing big plays… I think it also highlights how much Winston struggles without a strong run game as well. Considering how bad his third down is.. that’s because of the longer down and distance.

  39. JerseyBuc Says:

    Jamies has haters because of what he does I’m third down. Let’s see those stats. In order to lead, you need to show up when it counts, as in, the first three quarters, not in the last 5 minutes of every game down three scores…..that’s why these guys aren’t buying into his B.S….he wants to be a leader but he’s not doing what leaders do…..lets not act like he was lighting up the world before his shoulder

  40. Duke Says:


    DK was asked about who He preferred in the draft JW vs MM . We
    heard him say MM . MM is not a pocket passer, nor is He remotely in the vicinity. But DK liked his accuracy and his ability to make plays outside the pocket.
    DK if He was going to lie, would have probably said JW was the first pick in my mind. So I think it’s not that easy to brush off His own words and opinion.

    JW is a pocket passer. A prototypical drop back pocket passer, so much so He’s earned the label in college and by every draft service and media mock drafts prior to the nfl draft. Yet amazing that now , He’s not one? I have seen a few people referring to JW as not a pocket passer. Can you shed some light on the topic.

    BTW, I love the Ryan Griffin conspiracy theories……

  41. NFLNut Says:


    Jameis has played HALF THE YEAR with an INJURED THROWING SHOULDER and still has better stats than the last two NFL MVP’s … and people bash Jameis because they simply hate Jameis and no matter what he does, they will always wish he was on a different team … like “celler dueler” aka “WewantGruden” said … “I hope Jameis never plays another down in the NFL” … those are the type of lunatics claiming to be Bucs fans … sad.


  42. dr. lob Says:

    Coaching is the reason not Winston

  43. unbelievable Says:

    theodore is 100% correct