Terrible Third Downs

October 31st, 2017

Ugly company.

This is starting to scare Joe and it doesn’t matter if it is Halloween or the Fourth July.

When an NFL starting quarterback is lumped into the same group as Blake Bortles, it is enough to start drinking heavily. And thus Joe will, once he finishes typing this post.

(Joe has recently learned the art of buying growlers for responsible alcohol consumption at home.)

Joe already discussed yesterday how America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, was positively horrible on third downs Sunday, completing as many passes to the Stinking Panthers as he did to his teammates on third downs.

Well, BSPN has done some digging and looked at quarterback ratings based solely on third down pass attempts. And it seems Jameis is in the same pack as Bortles.

Jameis has the fifth-worst quarterback rating in the NFL on third downs. Carson Wentz has the best. Jameis is just two spots better than Bortles, the maligned quarterback of the Jags.

That is not good.

Now Joe isn’t a big believer in quarterback ratings. Joe is of the mind they are the NFL version of WAR in baseball, which is a thoroughly useless if not bullsh!t stat. If you believe quarterback ratings are absolute, then you also believe Chad Pennington was a better quarterback than Dan Marino and that Sideshow Bob was a better quarterback than Brett Favre.

However, to be fair, quarterback ratings sort of give one a ballpark idea if a quarterback is putrid or excellent. Little more.

Whatever the hell is going on with opening drives and third downs with the Bucs has to stop, and soon. If Joe didn’t know any better, it seems defenses either know what play is coming or Jameis is tipping pitches.

87 Responses to “Terrible Third Downs”

  1. Conte Piscateli Says:

    I’ve heard several times that Jameis always seems to live every play called, I wonder if he should be doing a better job of audibling into better plays at times. I’d like to see him get out of bad runs and also check to a run when the defense is vulnerable. I don’t see much of that, we make protection adjustments but I don’t feel like he is getting us into the best plays to be successful. I feel like he thinks he can make every play, and every throw so why change what’s called.

  2. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Absolutely rotten, putrid playcalling coupled with extreme inaccuracy from Jameis causes this.

    Jameis doesn’t have to tip the plays….my wife and I sit there and call them before they happen. They are extremely predictable especially on first down.

    Also, either the playcall or Jameis goes too often to low-percentage passes on third down…..we need 6 and the pass is for 20 or 3….it happens every week.

    Once we get behind and we become mostly a passing team if the protection holds up, Jameis starts to shine but it’s usually too late.

  3. Sweep the leg Says:

    So Bucs make no moves? Figures. Not like anything would help at this point anyway.

  4. Syl Says:

    That is bs on the inaccuracy part. When you are 3rd and long they know you have to pass. 8 of the 11 third downs before punts were longer than 3rd and 7. The Buffalo game had a lot of dinking and dunking which was absent in this game. If you cant run you dink and dunk to substitute for you non existent run game.

  5. AlteredEgo Says:

    WTF have you been watching….accuracy has always been a problem for Jameis….it is not merely missing a pass here and there….his completions are often ugly…..stat geeks….go dig up YAC’s / completions for Jameis as compared to the top 10 QB’s ……..BucUgly

  6. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I also notice that we almost always always run on 2nd and 1 or 2……sure we pick up a couple of yards for a first down….but that is the time for Jameis to playaction….
    We need playcalling that works to Jameis’ strengths and that means very few downfield throws….especially on 3rd down.

    You will notice who is worse than Winston….Cam Newton….in the game Sunday he constantly went for the long ball on third down with no success.

  7. DB55 Says:

    Mike Evans dropped the first 3rd n 6 pass. Then dropped another in the second half. Everybody talking about inaccuracy but they don’t mention Martin dropping passes that hit him in the hands. Djax lazy effort to catch passes. The only reciever jw has that will make a play on 3rd down is Brate which leads me to my next point wtf is up with O.J. wtf is Koetter only targeting him 2x per game. Dude is 6’18” and catches everything. But again wtfdik?

    Or how about jw run on 3&14 for a first that gets called back for holding now it’s 3rd n 22 easy to convert 3&22. With Shaw Thompson blitzing you and coming free on each play. Jameis is elusive af. If he ate sacks he’d have at least 6 per game.

    As a matter of fact Djax first catch was a 19 yard strike on 3&20 but instead of fighting for the first he slid down a yard short. Darn it Jameis complete the pass then go grab the ball and run for the first down. Wtf jw you suck!

  8. Brad Isherwood Says:

    Some few here on this Forum called for Fitzpatrick to start vs Da Bills.
    He earned it in spades with the scores Put up vs Cardinals.
    JW does not get hurt in Buffalo, .
    We might win vs Panthers and Saints…in Must have/playoff tempo football.
    Instead…we lose in Buffalo, …JW is injured,…the team dumps a loaf at Home vs Panthers.

    If coaching staff can’t recognize what to do….they should accept the fact,…that NFL Football Is not for them.
    No excuses,….the supposed career experience is not supposed to stumble like this.

    It’s actually unfair to working people to know Buc players get huge paycheck for playing crap football.
    Humiliate your team,city…..get paid. ..walk away and go party.

    We can’t go thru the @t again in 2018!

  9. Defense Rules Says:

    Everybody seems to be looking for answers to the big question: What’s wrong? Some games the defense flops … negligible pass rush, mediocre secondary play & difficulty stopping the run. Other games the Bucs offense lays an egg … starts slow, poor at converting 3rd downs, puts up good yardage but can’t score, turns the ball over.

    In looking at select parameters in the 7 games we’ve played (turnovers, 3rd/4th down conversions, time-of-possession, rushing & passing yardage) only ONE parameter is truly consistent, for whatever reason. In BOTH of our wins, we won the rushing battle. In ALL 5 losses, we lost the rushing battle. Looking at just those 5 stats, Bucs could’ve potentially won the NE game, but we didn’t. NE won the TOP (by about 1 min) and they out-rushed us … that’s it (both teams stats were very blah). Again looking at just those 5 stats, Bucs could’ve lost the Giants game, but we didn’t. Bucs won the rushing & passing yardage & broke even on the turnovers, but lost the TOP (by a bunch) as well as the 3rd/4th down conversions battle.

    Interestingly (well, at least to me), the Bucs are 33-for-87 on 3rd/4th down conversions this year (a poor 38% conversion rate). Our opponents are 58-for-102 on 3rd/4th down conversions (an excellent 57% conversion rate). Obviously we’re not getting the job done when it counts the most. We’ve been out-rushed in every single loss, and out-rushed our opponents in each win. I think a large part of our answer is … FIX THE RUN GAME and we’ll do a lot better than we have been. Not the only thing that needs fixing to be sure, but it’d be a good place to start.

  10. Smokeymountainbucfan Says:

    Watch 59! Watch 59! Watch him run Cameron Brates route backwards, and he picks Winston off!!!! Gobble Gobble

  11. DB55 Says:

    The run game. Once Martin started following his blockers he was popping off 10-15 yard runs each carry. In the 3rd or beginning of 4th he had a 5 yard avg.

    Jac didn’t do much in relief and barber killed a big 3rd down play bc of a holding penalty.

    Darn it Jameis after you snap the ball be sure to block for yourself then pass the ball, run down grab the ball from the receiver block for yourself again especially if Djax is near you and score the fckn td. Is that too hard? Geez man what a bum.

  12. Lamarcus Says:

    DB 55. Your right. I don’t know what the he’ll djx doing at times but ppl point to jw as he is a problem. Djx is not the djx we knew. Monken was right. Djx came for the money only

  13. LakeLand Says:

    What do you expect.

    (14:12 – 1st) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass incomplete short middle to D.Jackson.
    (10:29 – 1st) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass incomplete short left to M.Evans.
    (12:29 – 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass short right to A.Humphries to CAR 42 for 6 yards (T.Davis).
    (2:45 – 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass incomplete short right to A.Humphries [K.Short].
    (4:58 – 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass incomplete short left to D.Jackson.
    (0:29 – 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass incomplete short middle to M.Evans (J.Bradberry).
    (11:42 – 4th) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass deep left INTERCEPTED by M.Adams (C.Munnerlyn) at 50. M.Adams to TB 48 for 2 yards (A.Humphries). FUMBLES (A.Humphries), recovered by CAR-L.Kuechly at TB 48. L.Kuechly to TB 48 for no gain (J.Winston). The Replay Official reviewed the pass interception ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field was confirmed.

    You have Cam Brate and O.J. Howard
    And you have Running Backs
    You can throw the ball to them
    You don’t have to throw to the WRs all of the time on 3rd down

  14. DBS Says:

    Bucs got lucky Glennon turned the ball over. The defense scored. And Also Busted plays allowed Jameis to OJ connection. Other wise this team is 0-7.

  15. LakeLand Says:

    All of those were 3rd down plays

  16. DB55 Says:

    How about the bomb to Djax? Should have been called PI since the defense hit Djax in the face before the pass got there but if Djax comes back to the ball and fights just a little bit he may catch the pass but at worse gets the pi call.

    Darn it Jameis when throwing to Djax if it’s not a perfect dime you need to run fast af downfield catch the pass and run it in for a td. Don’t they teach you this chit in college. You suck dude.

    Side note: watching highlights of all 16 games last night and I notice WRs and TEs jumping, diving and adjusting to all kinds of passes. I’m not sure there was a completed pass in the Seattle Houston game that didn’t require a circus catch but no not here if jw don’t put it right in the bread basket Djax damn sure ain’t getting dirty.

    The only one diving out there are Brate and O.J. bwtfdik?

  17. DB55 Says:


    Some of those are drops not over throws or whatever.

    Can you post the drops?

  18. Defense Rules Says:

    Interesting Lakeland. Many of Jameis’ short passes this year have been very questionable … not connecting. Hard to tell though whether it’s the play call, Jameis (or others) tipping the play before it’s run, or just poor execution. In any event, this offense isn’t getting the job done when it counts most … as in ‘putting points on the board’.

  19. LakeLand Says:

    DB55, I was just posting the fact that the Bucs don’t believe in screens to their backs. And they don’t really go to the TEs on 3rd down. It seems like it’s always the WRs.

  20. CalBucsFan Says:

    LOL, Josh McCown is rated the 3RD BEST too!

    Look, Jameis is no longer a rookie, so all of us Bucs’ fans giving him a pass on his deficiencies just because he’s our QB aren’t serving anyone well except for those delusional enough to think he is infallible and America’s QB. If we blast coaches and other players, then so can America’s QB, because that he is not. And for those who want to use his banged up shoulder as an excuse, if it’s not bad enough to keep him out, then it’s not bad enough to use as an excuse for his poor play either.

    Historically, it’s in the 3rd year as a starter when a QB separates himself from others if he’s going to be “special” since the game has slowed down for them, they’ve fully digested the playbook and they’ve seen about every kind of defense the is. Realistically, JW hasn’t improved all that much, if at all, since he was a rookie. Anyone who thinks otherwise, PLEASE post how he has improved, would love to see where!

    Before everyone gets their bowels in an uproar and wants to point at all the yardage he’s thrown for in his first 23 years, tell me how much of that yardage has come late in games when the Bucs are so far behind that defenses are giving up yardage in exchange for letting the clock run down? It’s pretty doubtful the yardage has come in the first half of games since it takes at least a half for the offense to get going!

    And how about his accuracy? Come on Bucs fans, be honest, how often does JW throw a pass that is put in the RIGHT spot for not only a catch, but so the receiver doesn’t have to break stride to catch it? And for each of those that are, what was the average yardage down the field, 7-8 yards? It’s clear when watching other YOUNGER up-n-coming QBs such as Prescott, Goff, Watson, Wentz, and yes, Mariotta, that JW’s touch and accuracy are not near as good as those guys. Are we really suppose to believe that “he’s young, he will get better”?

    Even of more concern is how often he chooses the wrong receiver to throw to, he seems to always decide who he’s going to throw to before the ball is snapped, and then, regardless of whether he’s read the defense correctly or not, he does. I’ve quit backing up and watching replays because of all the missed opportunities. He continues to pass to his preferred choice, even when they are smothered by two defenders rather than checking off to another receiver that often is in clear view without a defender within 5 yards.

    And last, the mental mistakes, trying to do more than he should, throwing or flipping the ball rather than eating it, securing the ball, and moving on to the next play.

    All this, from our 3rd year starter. Come on guys, have we as Bucs fans been rooting so long for this downtrodden team that we are desperate enough to believe that JW is the ANSWER? Can it really be all because of the head coach, the lack of a solid running game, the front line, a soar shoulder…..blah, blah, blah.

    Look, I want to believe in JW, but it’s getting harder to do each game. He’s not improving and he hasn’t proven to be the savior many of us thought he was when drafted.

  21. DB55 Says:

    0:29 – 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass incomplete short middle to M.Evans
    From memory I’m pretty sure this was a drop. The pass was high but hit Evans in both hands and he dropped it. To be fair I think the wr are hearing footsteps and afraid to get crushed. But these misses aren’t all on jw. Wr need to make plays too.

  22. DB55 Says:


    The best screen play of the day went to O.J. he almost popped it open but Luke made a ridiculous play to catch him from behind.

  23. 813bucboi Says:

    @JOE….how was he on 3rd down in 2015?….GO BUCS!!!!

  24. LakeLand Says:

    Alvin Kamara the Saints ( Backup rookie RB) has 32 receptions for the season. And his Running Mate Mark Ingram has 30 receptions. The Bucs RBs has 26 receptions. The Saints RBs has 64 receptions. The Saints are 5-2, the Bucs are 2-5

  25. DB55 Says:


    Can it really be all because of the head coach, the lack of a solid running game, the front line, a soar shoulder…..blah, blah, blah.
    Actually yes, yes it can. Have you ever thrown with a fckn up rotator cuff? I think not cuz it hurts like a mf. So much so that he didn’t even want to throw the damn ball towards the end of the game. He kept double tapping and tapping and tapping then would just run.

    Let’s forget the kid got hit 7 Times plus however many sacks. In the second have Carolina blitzed Shaq on almost ever pass play which led to at least 1 interception and a 4th down play that didn’t convert.

    So cal your question is, can Jameis really be the savior with no pass protection, wrs who drop key passes when he is accurate, and plays with a torn/sore rotator cuff? You’ve obviously never hurt your rotator cuff dude it’s virtually impossible to throw and super painful.

  26. DB55 Says:

    Martin can’t catch for chit. Balls hit him in the chest and mf drops them.

  27. passthebuc Says:

    having read all the comments above, I have come to the only acceptable conclusion, Joe must stop writing on how good these guys are and, instead of coming up with fancy names, i.e. America’s QB, he needs names as follows.
    JW The Molasses QB
    D. Smith, you need to know when to hold em and then know how to fold em.
    Sweezy singing “when time and the Def Tackle goes by”
    Dotson, I’ve got a crush and hold on you”
    Doug Martin: The no hustle hampster

    I could go on forever, but it’s your column, Joe

  28. LakeLand Says:

    Sean Payton figured it out, that’s why he traded Brandin Cooks. The last time the Saints had a winning season was in 2013. Their RBs caught 171 passes, then the next season they started going back to their WRs. End results ( 3 straight 7-9 seasons) even though Drew Brees threw for over 4800 yards every season.

  29. JimmyJack Says:

    Yeah everybody on Winston and he deserves the criticism yet meanwhile Mike Evans played like an absolute bum on Sunday. I guess he just gets a free pass.

    I didn’t hear anybody crying about Brate(as reliable as he’s been) costing us points against NE dropping an easy TD. Gotta make the big catches or your not worth much.

    Everybody wants to hype up OJ yet the guy has shown rock hands all year.

    DB55 said it all when it comes to Djax.

    Don’t even get me started on our O-line. Even Marpet missed a key block the other day.

    We get all these flashy “weapons for Winston” and manage to go backwards in 3rd down percentage………Maybe Dirk doesn’t remember how easy Hump made it look to move the chains last year but I sure do. Sometimes trust and chemistry go a lot further then pure athleticism……..and Dirk if you decide to look back and go with what worked on third downs last year do me a favor and put in the 2015 tape……….On that tape you will see Chuck Sims being used effectively and making getting into the heads of opposing defences. You’re little plan of putting him in the slot didn’t work and handcuffed this offense from day one……..worse then watching Sims be the most inefficient slot player in the league is watching you line him up there game after game…….Honestly, did Dirk come up with that idea for Sims himself or did he get it from one of us moronic posters.

  30. DB55 Says:

    Honestly, did Dirk come up with that idea for Sims himself or did he get it from one of us moronic posters.
    Damn good question cuz I would be one of those moronic posters who said to move him to the slot. Truth be told I can only remember sims out there for like 1 play.

  31. JimmyJack Says:

    Yeah DB55 Martin has horrible hands……He should never be used in the passing as as nothing more then a checkdown.

    I forget which game, think it was NE but Dirk calls a play that has him running a route across the middle on a third and goal. I was pretty freaking pissed off that he dropped it but it’s an absolute abomination to have the worst hands on the entire team running a key route crossing right in front of Winston.

    And I know I know, he’s a pro he has to make that catch. But at the same time I expect my offensive guru of a HC when he hits his drawing board.

  32. JimmyJack Says:

    *use his head*

  33. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Listen…..I love Jameis Winston and think he is great for the Bucs…..

    There is no question that he struggles with accuracy with the deep ball and on many other passes he has shown some inconsistency…..

    You can blame some drops and the struggling running game for some of our failures but I think Jameis shares some of the blame.

    The bottom line is this team can win but it needs a very good defense. Sunday’s game was a rare show of virtually no offense.

    I think it is time for Koetter to seriously consider delegating the playcalling to Monken. We need an end to our predictability and that should do it.

    If Jameis is hurt, he needs to sit…..PERIOD!!!

  34. DB55 Says:

    D. Smith, you need to know when to hold em and then know how to fold em.

  35. Lord Cornelius Says:

    Jameis was one of the best in the league last year at it. So you can decide what you want.

    Before the Panthers game he had shown nothing but improvement across the board – both to the eye and statistically. If you disagree then I don’t really want to have a conversation with you because I honestly don’t think you really appreciate how bad a lot of other QBs are or his play in general relative to the rest of the league.

    I never see guys running wide ass open for Winston the way I’ve seen guys open this year against our defense; or in other NFL games. I’m talking gaping huge holes not beating a guy by 1-2 yards – which are plays he should hit but jesus you’d think guys were 15 yards open by the reactions on this site. Nothing has ever been easy for him on this team.

    Still has a way better record than Marcus Mariota in close games. Has more game winning drives. Has been on a worse team in a better division while doing this.

    If fans want to run him out of town they deserve the next dumpster fire of Bucs QBs that they will get after him. I’d probably say f*ck this entire franchise at that point

  36. JimmyJack Says:

    I seem to remember Sims in the slot quite a bit for the first several games.
    Think Dirk finally realized he was doing nothing and I don’t recall seeing Sims at all last week…………..Maybe Dirk likes to give his guys a lot of looks(this ain’t baseball dude)and see if they can turn some kind of corner but I don’t like seeing ineffective players asking to do the same plays game after game…….Same as using Sims last year rushing up the gut.

    A good coach would be able to know how to use their players in the first place……..let alone keep using them in the same ineffective role game after game before finally pulling the plug.

  37. DB55 Says:

    Monken and BJ are garbage so is Warhop the online coach. Get rid of all them dudes. The only one you should keep is the TE coach.

  38. CalBucsFan Says:

    DB55 You’ve obviously never hurt your rotator cuff dude it’s virtually impossible to throw and super painful.

    No disrespect intended DB, but as I said, if the shoulder isn’t bad enough to sit him down, then it shouldn’t be used as an excuse for poor play either.

    And oh yeah, I’ve pitched with a bad rotator cuff more than once and it DOES hurt like a MF’er. And, after a few innings and giving up runs, I knew I wasn’t at my best and decided not to let my desire to play and ego stand in the way of giving my team mates the best chance to win, so I sat out the rest of the game and the team came back and won. After missing 2 starts I came back and won 7 straight. So what’s your point again?

  39. DB55 Says:


    Always on point!

    The only wide open receiver I recall was O.J. on the deep td where the closest player was 13 yards away.

    Nothing is ever easy- jw started the game from the 17 yard line bc we don’t have a special trams until who knows how to follow the wedge and get upbfield. Spc teams coach needs to go. How many kickers has he been threw? Geez.

    Mariota – child please. Jw got more TDs, yards, wins, higher avg per pass. The only thing Mariota got on jw is +2% completion percentage. He’s 2% better quick call canton and prepare the bust. Lmao. #LAME

  40. Lord Cornelius Says:

    ” Realistically, JW hasn’t improved all that much, if at all, since he was a rookie. Anyone who thinks otherwise, PLEASE post how he has improved, would love to see where!”

    This is how you know we’re all just freaking the F*Ck out.

    Before the Panthers game; Winston had one of his best games as a pro; shredding a top 5 defense for almost 400 yards and 27 points; with a 4th quarter lead / come back that should have won the game.

    Before the Panthers game; his #s were all better across the board compared to any other year – accuracy % up / YPA up / avg scoring for the offense up and top 10 in the NFL / avg passing yards up / pacing for his best season by far.

    So I’m sorry but Jameis WInston is not this teams problem. He’s not the best QB in the NFL but he’s definitely better than average at the position.

    Jameis is responsible for 1 loss this year. The defense is responsible for 3; and I’ll blame kicking for the Pats. No one in their right mind would say we lost the games against the Vikings / Cardinals / or Bills because of Winston.

    On the other hand the only reason we even beat the Giants / had a chance to beat the Pats / had a chance to beat the Bills; was because of Winston. Not because of really anyone else on the team.

    But yeah f*ck that guy let’s go sign Kaepernick lol

  41. JimmyJack Says:

    Any fan wanting Winston out of town needs their head examined. Honestly, how short could your memory be. McCown, Glennon, Freeman…….you could write a novel on the inept QBs we have filtered through….We have never had a QB in this city ever. Do you fools really want to go through another 40 years of putrid QB.

    Be careful what you wish for. How old is Winston anyway 23? Calm the freak down and watch what this guy does when his team is a bunch of soft azzes.

  42. DB55 Says:

    My point is that it hurts like a mf. And yes it can dramatically change your play. Jw will never quit it’s not in his make-up. Granted you’re right he should sit but he’s 23. Not only does he know everything he’s Superman right now.

    It’s up to the doctors to say YO HOMIE NAH DAWG GO SIT YO AS DOWN.

  43. JimmyJack Says:


  44. LakeLand Says:

    I had to go back and do some research

    3rd and 10 at TB 41
    (0:48 – 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass short left to C.Brate to CHI 48 for 11 yards (C.LeBlanc).
    3rd and 7 at CHI 48
    (1:36 – 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass short left to C.Brate to CHI 35 for 13 yards (C.Jones).
    3rd and 14 at 50
    (10:51 – 3rd) J.Winston pass short right to C.Brate to MIN 32 for 18 yards (J.Kearse). Penalty on MIN-M.Alexander, Illegal Contact, declined.
    3rd and 1 at NYG 39
    (1:30 – 4th) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass deep right to C.Brate to NYG 13 for 26 yards (L.Collins).
    3rd and 5 at NE 48
    (1:49 – 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass short right to C.Brate to NE 39 for 9 yards (P.Chung).
    3rd and 3 at TB 48
    (3:32 – 4th) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass short left to C.Sims III to NE 42 for 10 yards (K.Van Noy).
    3rd and 6 at TB 29
    (11:07 – 1st) J.Winston pass short right to C.Brate to TB 44 for 15 yards (T.Branch).
    3rd and 6 at TB 29
    (4:24 – 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short left to C.Brate to TB 38 for 9 yards (P.Peterson).
    (1:23 – 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass deep right to C.Brate to ARZ 18 for 21 yards (T.Branch).
    3rd and 5 at TB 48
    (3:00 – 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Winston pass short left to C.Brate to BUF 40 for 12 yards (E.Gaines). Caught along sideline at BUF 43.
    3rd and 13 at TB 41
    (12:08 – 4th) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass short middle to C.Brate to BUF 45 for 14 yards (P.Brown; L.Johnson). Caught at BUF 45.
    3rd and 6 at BUF 24
    (5:23 – 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Winston pass short left to C.Brate to BUF 17 for 7 yards (M.Hyde) [P.Brown]. Caught at BUF 18.
    3rd and 11 at 50
    (6:51 – 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass deep right to C.Brate to CAR 33 for 17 yards (C.Munnerlyn).

    It seems like the Bucs should be targeting Cam Brate more on 3rd down
    He’s their best option on 3rd down

  45. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “The only wide open receiver I recall was O.J. on the deep td where the closest player was 13 yards away.”

    Exactly and he hit him with ease lol.

    There really were a ton of bad calls in that game/ bad errors just shooting us in the foot that you’ve highlighted.

    I couldn’t believe the no call on the Djax PI. That alone could ahve completely changed the game as I think we were only down 7 at that point i believe.

    Haven’t really caught any breaks. Can’t play like a complete team for any 1 game. Put me in a coma and lets start over next year lol god damnit man

  46. Lord Cornelius Says:

    “It seems like the Bucs should be targeting Cam Brate more on 3rd down
    He’s their best option on 3rd down”

    What’s funny is before the Carolina game this was pointed out – in terms of knowing where Winston would go with the ball. It’s very possible the D was keying on Brate on many 3rd downs knowing that was his tendacy

  47. The Buc Realist Says:

    I think that those 3rd down stats would show a more accurate picture if they had the avg down and distance for those 3rd downs!!!!!!!!

    Did anyone else notice that at times Carolina had their safties 8 yards from the Line of Scrimmage????? Just daring for the Bucs to go for and complete the long ball!!!!!!!

    GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!

  48. LakeLand Says:

    The Bucs has made 31,3rd downs this season. And 2, 4th downs, I just posted 11, 1st downs made by Cam Brate and 1, 4th down made by Cam Brate.

  49. DB55 Says:

    Yea they had Brate covered pretty well but he still came up with a big explosive play with like 4mins left in the game.

    The stat was 47 tds 1 rushing in the red zone. Something like that, might actually be 41 tds. But as soon as the stat came of the screen boom a sack now out of the red zone and an incomplete pass to Evans in the end zone. Mike could have jumped or tried to make a play but it didn’t happen. Plus jw so beat up by that point his technique was way off. Threw off of back foot and out of balance.

    Even the announcer said JW “out there running for his (life) safety”

  50. LakeLand Says:

    It do have distance

  51. DB55 Says:

    No argument about Brate only problem is Luke knows it too. Fml

  52. AlteredEgo Says:

    ” Just daring for the Bucs to go for and complete the long ball!!!!!!!”
    yep….nobody fears the Buc long ball….errr 50/50 ball

  53. DB55 Says:

    Jameis Winston out here putting his career and livelihood on the line for 612k a year meantime the 13 mil dollar man goes week in and week out like a church mouse and nobody says a got damn thing.

  54. JimmyJack Says:

    The problem is that fans think QB ability can be found in stats and percents and they think that it’s the ratings that make the great ones great. They want to look at things like arm ability and break down film of every step and motion.

    At the end of the day all that crap means next to nothing. You put the ball in a QBs hand with a game on the line and you can throw out all those traits. Pressure moments are what seperate the great ones. You can cry about Winstons accuracy all day long but you give that guy one drive to win a game and watch what happens. That’s the moment that a truely great QB performs……You naysayers take a gander at those moments and you’ll get proven flat out wrong by Winston just about every time. And that’s a fact, Jack!!!

    The problem this team has is that they can’t get him the ball with the game on the line…….Tampa Bay dreamers think you get all these weapons and we will start putting up 45 per game and cakewalk to the W. The goal is to win a Championship and if you think for a moment Championships are cakewalks you need your heads examined.

    Keep looking at the stats naysayers and you’ll never figure it out. Now bite me I gotta go get some tricks and treats.

  55. AlteredEgo Says:

    @ JimmyJack….is a big part of needing game on the line last minute heroics…

  56. AlteredEgo Says:

    @ JimmyJack…. Jameis is a big part of needing game on the line last minute heroics…

  57. LakeLand Says:

    Catch ratio is very important

    Cam Brate 70.5%
    OJ Howard 65%
    Mike Evans 57.4 %
    DeSean Jackson 49.0%
    Adam Humphries 70.7%

  58. DB55 Says:

    Altered ego

    You realize Mariota has a 62% competition rate vs jw 60% right? All other categories jw is better right?

    Not to mention Mariota throws 5 yard slants all day and has the best rb duo in the league right?

    And a much much better offensive line right? You know this stuff right?

  59. LakeLand Says:


    June 20, 2017 at 2:38 pm

    I don’t understand the Front Office. Last season Hump and Brate had solid seasons, and they both are growing in the NFL. Out of all the needs we have on this offense, they go out and spend high draft picks or sign these two players replacements. These two were the only bright spots on this offense last season. No intelligent person would neglect our O-Line needs. We added “weapons for Jameis”, but, are they the right weapons?

  60. AlteredEgo Says:

    I am not talking about Marriota …I am talking about Jameis

  61. DB55 Says:


    I sincerely think the only young q.b better than jw right now is Wentz.

  62. DB55 Says:


    Yea well duh too bad we’re just fans. Wtf do we know, amirite?

  63. LakeLand Says:

    DB55, Th Bucs are putting Jameis Winston in a position to fail. Like they did Doug Williams, Chris Chandler, Steve Young, Trent Dilfer, Vinny Testaverde . $ of those QBs went on to lead their teams to a Super Bowl.And Vinny had a solid career with the Browns and Jets after he left Tampa. Jameis Winston took 218 hits during his first 2 seasons in the NFL. And you’re still sticking with this Crappy 0-Line.

  64. LakeLand Says:

    4 of those QBs took teams to the Super Bowl

  65. Big Stinky Says:

    I have to say that I agree with what you said. I was thinking maybe Winston was getting a little better this year because he had cut down on the INT’s until the last game. That had to be one of his 3 worst games I have seen so far, it was hard to watch. I have NEVER been on the JW bandwagon but was/am hoping that I was wrong, we’ve invested too much in him. Accuracy is one thing you can’t fix, at least I have NEVER seen it done. You either have TOUCH or you don’t! It’s not just the deep ball that he misses, he constantly misses short passes too. Look how much Wentz has improved in his second year, I think he is going to be a good one real soon. Could be wrong but you can usually tell early with QB’s. I think King and Freeman both played better their first couple years and look what happened to them. Why do so many people think he is a franchise QB or the best we have had?? Not even close! They did more with less. Less talent around them and worse OC’s (except Steckel in 2000). JW is NOT worth 20+ million per year. SORRY BUCS FANS!

  66. AlteredEgo Says:

    I’m thinking like Big Stinky….I be happy to be wrong…really happy….

  67. DB55 Says:


    If you have a clue that chit is obvious, then there’s the “inaccurate” crowd. Let’s see how accurate you are when you get hit 218 Times.

    The Bucs are setting jw up to have the same career as Andrew Luck except they won’t pay him 100 million for ruining his career.

    If I was jw dad or agent I’d say turn it off son. Go on IR for the rest of the year and let the yokles watch Fitz play. Lmao.

    Finish next yr and then we’ll get you to ny or ne where coaches and fans have a clue about football. Then you’ll win your super bowls.

  68. DB55 Says:

    How many qb are throwing at 65% + completion percentage?

  69. DB55 Says:

    LakeLand Says:
    October 31st, 2017 at 6:18 pm
    Catch ratio is very important

    Cam Brate 70.5%
    OJ Howard 65%
    Mike Evans 57.4 %
    DeSean Jackson 49.0%
    Adam Humphries 70.7%
    I’m guessing Joe missed this stat when he wrote that article about Djax this morning

  70. LakeLand Says:

    DB55, This is what I said back in February
    Before free agency or the draft
    When they first started talking about signing/drafting a speedy WR/TE

    LakeLandBuc Says:
    February 9th, 2017 at 11:57 am

    83 passes to RB…..116 passes to TE…372 passes to WR. That’s why the Bucs want Speedy WRs so bad. Over 65% of their passes goes to WRs, and we talk about accuracy. We just have to throw the ball 20 yards up the field. We just don’t believe in * taking what the defense give us*. We just feel the need to force the ball to WRs in double coverage. Hump is not a legitimate * Number 2 WR” according to some posters, because he don’t stretch the field. We don’t need 4.2 WRs to stretch the field, we need 2-3 more WRs like Hump, who can move the chains. And add a 3 down back, who can run,block and catch.

    They went from Contenders to Pretenders overnight

  71. jjbucfan Says:

    Lakeland- to your point, during the draft sitting there with my dad like we do every year since I was born, I said the exact same thing to my dad. OJ, okay maybe I was being a homer and wanted Cook instead, but I can accept the best TE in the draft. However in the second when we got J Evans and I got up and left the room. Yes we needed a safety but in my eyes we needed a RB, edge rusher and Left Tackle. They moved the wrong guy this year. Marpet coulda made the Pro Bowl as well as he played last year but lets move him to center when we have 2 capable guys and Centers are cheap and can get in late rounds. The move was (and is) to get a LT and move D Smith to Guard or RT. I’m not ready to give up yet on him as a player, just a LT. Godwin it turns out was not much of a steal because Dirk refuses to put him on the field. He looks like his route running is rounded and not sharp and gets bumped off routes easily. So many missed opportunities. I really was hoping Doug would come back and be the guy. Dude can’t catch a freaking cold and has killed a couple drives with his hands. His running I am happy with. Dirk doesn’t play Jac Rodgers and Sims rarely gets on the field. Peyton Barber gets in and gets the most bogus, ridiculous holding call ever and never sees the field again. Couldn’t a guy in the box tell Dirk that was a bad a call and Barber did not hold the guy. So of our 4 RBs on the roster, we do not have one that is a complete back. What do we do in the draft? Get Cook, Hunt, Mack, Cohen? No Jeremy “dumb dumb” McNichols. The guy that can run and catch but can’t learn the playbook enough to get on the field to run and catch. Holy Spit!! Fire everyone!!! Koetters offense is so outdated and so is Smiths vanilla a$$ defense. Neither will adjust to who they are playing or who is playing on our roster. Jameis is so much better in the hurry up and throwing on the run. I know this because I have watched every FSU game since I was a kid. How is it that Koetter doesn’t see this? BTW if DJax makes an effort at all for that ball in the end zone, 3 flags fly. Yes it was PI but you got to give effort and sell it a little. This is not the first time either this year. This guy acts like Jameis is in the back yard playing pitch and catch with him. The defense is killing him back there because we are a sieve in pass protection.

    Man I got side tracked- but I am so pissed at Dirk and Smitty, this is Lovie all over again- don’t fool yourself. If Dirk lets anyone else call plays, they will still be his bland a$$ outdated routes and blocking schemes. Just like when Lovie took over for Leslie Frazier, LOL. Same ole spit!!

  72. LakeLand Says:

    jjbucfan, I agree 100%

  73. unbelievable Says:

    Lord Corn you are spot on again my friend.

    Our WRs and TEs are barely getting any separation at all in most instances, where as you see other team’s receivers running wide open with 5 – 10 yards of space around them.

    Is that because of coaching? scheme? route design? or the players just not giving it enough effort? I know we’ve got talent at WR and TE positions, so it really doesn’t make sense.

    Jameis takes blame too, but really the whole offense has looked out of sync with the exception of the Buffalo game. You guys are hating on Martin but he was basically the only only guy on offense to show up last week.

  74. jjbucfan Says:

    BTW- Jason Licht, Jay Ajayi for a 4th rounder- couldn’t pull that off? You do realize he is 24 and being misused in Adam Gase’s offense right? How about any DE in the league? How about any D tackle in the league? Marcel Dareus anyone? How about the LT Duane Brown from the Texans? OMG!! I would take Kelvin Benjamin and re-energize Jameis. Chris Godwin can have a pulled hamstring that needs the IR! Anything dude to let us know you are awake!! Trade deadlines do not happen like this in the NFL, there we are silent!! UGGGHHHHH!! The Glazers have truly given our GMs an open checkbook lately and they have failed over and over to bring in productive FAs.

  75. PRBucFan Says:


    y’all hate hearing it but he’s not untouchable, things need to change or else drastic decisions will start being made.

  76. DB55 Says:



  77. Lamarcus Says:

    Gmc is untouchable. Ain’t did much but individualize stats. No team success

  78. NMBucsFan Says:

    The fsu quarterback coach isn’t expected to come back to fsu next season. Maybe the bucs should pick him up and see if he can work his magic on Winston again

  79. DB55 Says:


    I said that 3 weeks ago but wtf do I know.

  80. Bobby M. Says:

    He’s terrible on 1st and 2nd down….which leads to difficult 3rd downs.

  81. LakeLand Says:

    We all know that Jameis Winston had a problem, throwing the deep ball. So why is he throwing the deep ball so much? What was the purpose of signing DJAX? He’s a ” One Trick Pony”, he’s only going deep.

  82. DoNUTS Says:

    Honest and true take on #3 by @CalBucsFan.

    If he is hurt, he should sit.

  83. Destinjohnny Says:

    3 is in the 18-22 ranking of 32 qb’s
    Not a bust but just okay as a qb.
    Love his leadership though.

  84. Season Is Over Says:

    Mr. Magoo so far looks like Jeff George minus the good years and deep ball accuracy.

  85. Clodhopper Says:

    Jfro6pack didn’t get this many excuses.

    Trent Dilfer didnt need a team as stacked as what Jameis needs to win.

    It’s gonna be fun paying a QB 15mil a year that needs an all pro team surrounding him. Should be able to afford an all pro team and stay under the salary cap. Sure. No problem.

    Receivers gotta dive and jump and get a helmet to the gut in order to catch these wounded ducks Jameis throws. No no no. Cant expect Jameis to throw an accurate ball like we expect out of EVERY pro quarterback. He just needs to get it in the same zip code and the rest is on a receiver to be a gd acrobat.

  86. PRBucFan Says:

    who the hell said anything about GMC?

    And who else would I be talking about, the QB we have who everyone worships as if he can do no wrong.

  87. DB55 Says:

    Ya need to watch some film.