Punish The Loaf

October 15th, 2017

Early loaf today

It’s simply inexcusable for a defensive player, a 22-year-old player, to give a half-assed effort in the first quarter of a professional football game.

Joe’s been calling out loafs on these pages for years. And while Vernon Hargreaves isn’t a serial loafer like former Bucs safety Sean Jones, or a professional loafer like Tim “Loaf” Jennings or Adrian Clayborn, Hargreaves put a nasty one on film today.

For those who DVR’d the game, Joe asks you to proceed to 6:20 remaining in the first quarter. The Bucs are only trailing 7-0, and it’s two plays after Hargreaves gave Arizona wide receiver John Brown about 5+ yards of cushion to catch a comeback route as the second option after a flea flicker setup. (Just sprint with the receiver, Vernon!)

The 2nd-and-4 handoff goes to Adrian Peterson who bounces left and around Hargreaves, who failed to play the edge. Ok, that happens, but just after Peterson runs by Hargreaves, the second-year cornerback clearly starts jogging at the 21 yard line as Chris Conte comes in to clean up the mess.

As Hargreaves loafs, Peterson still had room to cut back inside and make a move on Conte. The play was not dead.

Joe is not nitpicking here. That kind of stuff is unacceptable, especially early in a game against a Hall of Fame running back. Hargreaves is not injured.

Joe has heard guys like Derrick Brooks talk for years about fighting for every blade of grass, and about the value of cumulative gang tackles and hits on an offense and its players.

Nine minutes into a game and Hargreaves was letting off the gas. That kind of stuff needs to be punished, in Joe’s humble opinion. Start Ryan Smith for a series if you have to next Sunday in Buffalo.

Loafs can get awfully contagious. Joe has seen that too often over the years.

59 Responses to “Punish The Loaf”

  1. Captain Big Stick Says:

    Thank you Joe! This needed to be written and you nailed it!

  2. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. Captain Big Stick Says:

    He has been continually beat by every team this season. I have to believe he has talent, but at this point.. I strongly believe his draft status is keeping him in the game.

  4. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    We need derrick brooks as a DC or a LB coach to light a fire in our defense

  5. Seminole Bill Says:

    Joe – the entire defense loafed through the first half. Adrian Peterson is not that good, and neither is the Cardinals O-line. However, against the Bucs’ defense they looked like all-pros. One would think that our defense would be ready for the Cardinals to give Peterson some work – but they weren’t.

    Losing Jameis was a killer but hats off to Fitzpatrick for his play. But the defense stunk.

  6. Rrsrq Says:

    Yep, start Ryan Smith and see if he progressing game to game, VH3, has not been the answer at all, play him at the slot, next year. Lack of pass rush is not an excuse every time.

  7. jimmyjack Says:

    Was it loafing or was it timid play? Justin Evans looked very timid out there, to me, but some could call it loafing.

    On the 3rd TD we had nobody covering the entire endzone….That speaks volumes to me that we are unprepared.

    I’m blaming Smith for VHIII, Evans. He dont have these young guys in positions where they feel comfortable……..I mean, come on, why the he!! is Evans trying to cover the sideline?

    Mike Smith just sucks. His D couldnt win us Spit last year and still isnt. No reason VHIII should be regressing.

  8. Dusthty Rhothdes Says:

    should have drafted laremy tunsil not this dude…. but licht is just being crafty

  9. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    Captain Big Stick Says:
    October 15th, 2017 at 8:43 pm
    He has been continually beat by every team this season. I have to believe he has talent, but at this point.. I strongly believe his draft status is keeping him in the game.

    You are 100% correct

    ….but he’s playing like a 4 or 5th rd talent

    I always thought we over-drafted him…..and now it’s coming out in a very horrible way…..



    Vernon “Marshmellow” Graves?????????

  10. Destinjohnny Says:

    He Was clearly overdrafted but it’s hard to cover when u have one legit defensive lineman.
    Was a waste to get Jackson as it was to early.
    We can’t win with our d line talent

  11. Mr. E Nigma Says:

    He will get his game checks. He will not be cut or sat because of his draft status. He has no one on the team strong-willed enough to call him out. What is his incentive?

  12. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    …….and I’m very sure our wonderful GM will be burning the midnight oil for many weeks trying to find personel solutions to our problems on defense because while Koetter is trying to figure out how to jump start our offense from quarters 1 thru 3.

  13. Cwis Says:

    Please sit the man. Or better yet coach him up and hold him accountable. I.e. don’t give him the option to play ten yards off the line since clearly he will do this every single play.

  14. LakeLand Says:

    When will this Fanbase call out Jason Licht for his dumb draft picks? I’m tired of reading the nonsense on here, about ….how good of a job Licht is doing.

  15. Bucsfan951 Says:

    Yeah it’s been written but who will have the balls to bring it to the attention of the head coach? I hope the journalists really start holding the fire to the coaches feet on this stuff. Now pass my crown, I need to let my liver know the old Bucs seem to be back.

  16. Captain Big Stick Says:

    TheBucsAnthem Says:
    October 15th, 2017 at 8:45 pm

    Vernon “Marshmellow” Graves?????????

    That is fantastic, marshmellow it is from now on! I hope Joe picks that name up!

  17. Mr. E Nigma Says:

    Funny how other teams seem to actually coach players up and make them better. Players come here and get worse.

  18. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    Bucsfan951 Says:
    October 15th, 2017 at 8:49 pm
    …………………………….Now pass my crown, I need to let my liver know the old Bucs seem to be back.


    Meng, take it easy on that stuff!!!!!! LOL!!!!!

  19. Easy Denman Says:

    VHIII is pretty pathetic TBH. He should only see the field on ST at this point.

  20. I'm tired and 87 is right Says:

    Yeah one of these coaches deserves the blame in this one. I’m starting to think it’s Smith and Koetter. Neither sides came prepared and we have tons of talent on both sides. If we were the Jets type of talent I might understand but we have by far better talent yet these coaches don’t get these guys to perform. Jets at least show up to fight. Bad leadership and they have to start with themselves to ride this ship in the right direction. I have faith Bucs but you are not the same team that I grew up with when you could easily be. You just have to want it more and days like this should piss you off more then it does me. It’s time to look in the mirror Bucs! You tell me….

  21. jimmyjack Says:

    is it just me or is VHIII always seem to be caught in man coverage? Never thought he would be a man corner last year but our D coordinator seems to have other thoughts.

    I think they are wasting VHIIIs ability to play the ball in the air which he has proven that he has.

  22. Captain Big Stick Says:

    and for those of you who want to wants to excuse his lack of ability to make a play due to the lack of pass rush… Please watch how many times he is beat on simple slants and outs for 7 yard gains! I mean, Larry Fitzgerald turned him around 360 degrees with a run of the mill post route..wow

  23. jimmyjack Says:

    Lakeland…..Lichts “bad” draft picks still have a career in front of them….With Dirk and Smith trying to figure it out I’m not optimistic.

  24. Destinjohnny Says:

    My bad let’s go over Jason’s defensive line draft pics.
    NoAh spence who is a 237 pound d lineman with one move to the outside.
    Don’t shoot the messenger

  25. LakeLand Says:

    Good Point…jimmyjack, it could bad coaching.

  26. Captain Big Stick Says:

    Hey good news everyone, though! Justin Evans looks like a gamer!!

  27. LakeLand Says:

    You do have to put the players in the best position to succeed.

  28. BuccaneEric75 Says:

    I was high on Licht, and I haven’t given up, but the more games we play, the more his draft picks don’t look as good as we thought they were.

  29. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    jimmyjack Says:
    October 15th, 2017 at 8:53 pm
    is it just me or is VHIII always seem to be caught in man coverage? Never thought he would be a man corner last year but our D coordinator seems to have other thoughts.

    I think they are wasting VHIIIs ability to play the ball in the air which he has proven that he has.

    Vernon “Marshmellow” Graves is getting beat in any type of coverage…..he’s just awful from positioning to tracking the ball in the air, to setting himself up for tackling…….he’s terrible.

  30. Dylan Says:

    *Sits back and sips tea*

    VH3 = Bust. Maybe he can become instagram famous like Boonk, cause NFL = not for long for him.

    Jason = No Extension.

  31. BuccaneEric75 Says:

    I’ve been watching football for over 30 years and I’ve never seen a Saftey look more lost in coverage as J Evans looked on that TD pass. Inexcusable and completely embarrassing.

  32. Ocala Says:

    vH3 is awful I really do think the Bucs should consider cutting him
    PFF has him as the worst corner in the NFL

  33. Knucknbuc Says:

    Are you sure he doesn’t just suck?? Bec it’s Hard to tell what a draft by light aguayo vh3 and Spence all in the draft lol. I have no idea how this guy was evaluated as a first rounder.

  34. John Says:

    Does anybody else think that the media hypes up players so much that teams are forced to draft them? As in because they came from the “beloved SEC” or such conferences?? Hargreaves isn’t playing up to his draft talent right now. I know there is that so called sophomore slump but cmon

  35. John Says:

    @Dylan get off worldstar

  36. Captain Big Stick Says:

    John Says:
    October 15th, 2017 at 9:12 pm

    Does anybody else think that the media hypes up players so much that teams are forced to draft them? As in because they came from the “beloved SEC” or such conferences?? Hargreaves isn’t playing up to his draft talent right now. I know there is that so called sophomore slump but cmon


    I am inclined to believe that the personnel departments of an NFL team have enough access to information to sort through the hype and make an educated guess whether a player’s talent will translate to the big leagues.

    I think we just missed on this pick or the marshmellow needs to be used in a different role. At the moment, a cover corner he is not…

  37. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    When Arizona Cardinals/General manager – Steve Keim
    Needed a running-back he traded for Adrian Peterson

    Mr. Licht – we need another corner BADDDDD!!

    Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie???

  38. Buc1987 Says:

    Not giving up on this lil shrimp in his 2nd season. Just wish the FIRST rounder wasn’t starting.

  39. firethecannons Says:

    we need more than writing it–Joe please ask koetter/m smith what is happening with Hargreaves, are they just planning to do nothing about him?– kid is not working out

  40. Buc1987 Says:

    BuccaneEric75…yep but HE’s a rookie.

  41. Gmax0522 Says:

    Heard this on the radio this week….
    A Buddy of mine ordered a new Hargreaves jersey this week.
    It was delivered 12 yards off his mailbox!
    Un friggin believable!!!
    I’m with you Joe… this joke needs to be benched!

  42. 813bucboi Says:

    Jimmyjack hit it on the head….it’s coaching…. Winston looks to be regressing too….GO BUCS!!!

  43. Mr Ed Says:

    Hargreaves has decidednthatnothernthings are more important than football.

    Bench him, make him inactive against Buffalo. He is awful.

  44. Trubucfan22 Says:

    Almost everyone here is giving up on a 22 yr old player? Sure he hasn’t been good. But he didn’t ask to be thrown in as the starter since day 1. He needs to work on his craft. No doubt. Maybe we do need to acquire someone to start while Hargreaves gets better behind the scenes. But cutting him and calling him a bust is still premature. Maybe I’m a little too optimistic, but I wouldn’t quit on a 22 yr old second yr player.

  45. Sauerpickle Says:

    Trubucfan22- you need to stop making excuses for VH3. Also, saw someone try to say it’s hardbfor him to operate with no d-line help. That might be true, except for the fact he’s playoff most of the time. Of course the d-line isn’t getting to the qb when you give the qb a target with a 7-10 yd cushion. It’s not rocket science. You gotta get up in the receivers grill off the line. Don’t give the qb time to throw a pass to an open guy. It’s amazing how many times we’ve given up catches to guys so wide open. Is our line bad? Sure, but have we thought of trying to disrupt the receivers routes yet? It’s crazy. We’re playing off every time almost. What kind of pressure are we putting on the receivers to do their job? VH3 looks lost. He needs to make a play for once and quit celebrating mediocre junk that he didn’t even do in the first place.

  46. Broy34 Says:

    There’s like three people who never commented before today absolutely littering these boards with negativity. I get it it was bad. The real fans aren’t giving up. Go root for someone else.

  47. Juju Says:

    Maybe they should do something different with him. Start him as nickel or something. The coaches need to figure out something different. If he keeps getting burned every week, it’s time to try something else. It’s insane to keep putting him in the same situation week after week.

  48. Shane Says:

    Why does Mike Smith have him playing so damn soft?? He gives WR’s 15 yards of field and still gets beat. He’s definitely a weak link in the defense. He wasn’t playing that soft last year. WHAT ARE THEY DOING OUT THERE??

  49. Lamarcus Says:

    I replayed it and through further review Hargreaves should be deactivated

  50. Lamarcus Says:

    That play had absolutely no reason to be a td

  51. Shane Says:

    He wasn’t playing on WR’s this soft last year. I don’t know wh Mike Smith has him off WR’s so much. Makes it easy for them. They TRYING to lose?

  52. Jr Says:

    I think he gets star struck easily and plays lower due to that.

  53. Capt.Tim Says:

    Vernon Hargreaves doesnt have the physical abilities needed to play CB.
    Not even as a backup.

    Worse, he has a “Superstar” attitude.
    He should be released. Tomorrow.
    He is crippling this defense. Every team knows they can beat him.

    Cut him. At least it would send a message to the defense- that a lazy, Me first attitude will not be tolerated.

    But they wont- strictly because of where he was drafted.
    He’ll end up getting Koetter and Mike Smith fired

  54. stvcl Says:

    Sorry bro…I believe what you put on tape and you ain’t got it. Time to walk the plank.

  55. johnnybuc Says:

    i was starting to go with the thinking that regardless ryan smith should start over vern… the way he has played it’s inexcusable to leave him out there without punishment that’s not sending the right message . if i guy is constantly getting beat and not making plays the backup comes in. that hasn’t happened for some reason and i think they need to look into it just to see if it lights a fire under vern maybe he’s gotten to comfortable to just let up the catch and get the tackle . because up to this point his play time hasn’t been effected by it. he ended the game a lot better but still coaches might want to look into it

  56. unbelievable Says:

    Agreed 109% Joe

  57. Wes Says:

    Just 1 series? Nah, VH3 has been bad all season long. It’s time to start Ryan Smith for a full game and give VH3 a wake up call.

  58. mike10 Says:

    I’m beginning to think you run a real risk drafting certain positions and expecting them to make an impact early…. and CB is one of them. Whether it’s the head-game or the game itself, young CBs have difficulty catching up immediately. But the good ones sort it out with experience…

    Don’t forget when u watch the Broncos on SNF, one of the members of the “NO FLY ZONE” was drafted by the Bucs.

  59. Wewantgruden Says:

    This is exactly why yo DO NOT DRAFT a player from which he was raised and played HS football. He is probably out partying with his HS homies and not putting in the time to become successful at the pro level. He was blessed with a great DLine at UF that our enough pressure on the opponents QB that resulted in easy picks. He is soft and was afraid of getting run over by AP.