October 23rd, 2017
(Photo courtesy of Buccaneers.com)

Lauded. (Photo courtesy of Buccaneers.com)

What might have been.

First, it was a helluva job by America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, to not just keep the Bucs in the game against a powerful defense, but to put the Bucs ahead late. And shortly thereafter, he seemed poised to put the Bucs into a game-winning field goal position.

And then it all went to hell.

Well, Jameis’ 32-of-44 performance with three touchdowns and 384  yards didn’t escape the eye of Gary Gramling of SI.com, who thought Jameis’ day got pushed to the background by the Bucs’ defense’s impersonation of a choking dog.

Jameis Winston, Gutsy: With the sprained AC joint, he hung in and made play after play in the second half in against a good Bills defense on the road. If Adam Humphries doesn’t cough one up as they readied for a potential game-winning drive in a tie game, Winston’s performance would have made headlines.

And still the Jameis haters were out in force yesterday on Twitter. Joe had some clown claim Jameis is no better than Bryon Leftwich. Joe just hopes this guy had a helluva bar tab yesterday. Sometimes Joe thinks these folks need to be institutionalized.

At worst, this dope that thinks Jameis is the next Leftwich seems to be in a sorry need of the comfort of a woman.

83 Responses to ““Gutsy””

  1. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    Winston definitely stood out but also were making bonehead decisions again

  2. C eh N eh D eh Says:

    he’s a turnover machine, don’t be blind Joe….didn’t do enough to win….the picks and fumbles continue…

  3. tmaxcon Says:

    Jameis is already top 5 in franchise history on the offensive side of the ball. Obviously given the fact the bucs have never had a respectable much less good offense that is not saying much that being said Jameis is the least of this teams worries. Until the leader of the losing culture and face of the basement years is eradicated bucs will wallow in the basement

  4. Mitch Says:

    Admittedly, I bought the the hype for the season. However, I am not disappointed yet. I want to see how these men handle themselves in adversity, and to see the scope of Jamies’s leadership be brought to the forefront so we can see this team come together and overcome their unforeseen season start. In short, I want to see guts and collaboration. If the team can do that I am hopeful for a 10-6 or 11-5 finish.

  5. Grt2 Says:

    I don’t understand these Jameis trolls. What qb in the nfl doesn’t turn the ball over. Jameis has to force things because he has no defense. We do not have an Eagles, Tennessee, Houston, Rams, or Vikings. If Jameis does force things these games aren’t even competitive. Get off Jameis trolls, he’s the only reason we’re in the games.

  6. Buc50 Says:

    Jameis had a great day yesterday. He had a few throws that were terrible but he was the sole reason we even had a chance yesterday.

  7. Waterboy Says:

    Winston and the offense played well enough to win but you can’t let a team drive 75 yds in 45 secs with the game on the line.

  8. Joe Says:

    he’s a turnover machine, don’t be blind Joe

    Yet he has cut down his turnovers significantly.

    He ripped apart a damn good defense. Yet folks have a hard on for a couple of plays that did not effect outcome of the game. smh

    Swear people would b!tch if Bucs had Joe Montana and complain how he couldn’t rifle passes.

  9. tmaxcon Says:

    C eh N eh D eh

    might want to rewatch the game fool… it was not jameis giving up the booty like a cheap craigslist date that honor goes to captain clown and his defense…

  10. FR Says:

    Please please help me understand, am I the only one see Jamis has thrown a INT in every game this season IF the defensive team doesn’t drop the INT.

  11. FR Says:


    BINGO he is a “turnover machine” he will get us to the playoffs one day and just blow it with his INT’s

  12. Joe Says:

    Please please help me understand, am I the only one see Jamis has thrown a INT in every game this season IF the defensive team doesn’t drop the INT.

    Best QB this franchise has ever had. Set an NFL record. But, nope, let’s run the SOB out of town. Better off with Trent Dilfer/Shaun King/Brad Gradkowski/Chris Simms/Byron Leftwich/Josh Freeman/Mike Glennon/Luke McCown.

    Dude played with a f’ed up throwing shoulder and he torched one of the best defenses in the NFL yet that’s not good enough for some. smh 🙁

  13. Grt2 Says:

    Does FR stand for F$&king Retarded. When you’re defensive sucks you have to force it. By forcing it you sometimes throw picks. Jameis is the only reason we are competitive. Go watch Hockey Jameis trolls!!!!!

  14. James Craig Marlow Says:

    Winston just overthrew D-Jax again… stay tuned.

  15. JB Says:

    For anyone to blame yesterday’s loss on Winston shows they know very little about how football is played. If you want someone to blame, blame GMC or Smitty. Did anyone see just how disinterested McCoy sounded after he helped the Bills on that final 3 play drive that lost us the game?

  16. Bculaw Says:

    Brady was strip sacked and threw an ugly INT in the end zone in the first quarter of last bigt’s game against ATL. He fell on the fumble and the INT was called back due to roughing the passer that had no effect on the play. Is he a turnover machine, too?

    You throw the ball 40+ times a game, you will have missed passes and “almost” turnovers, especially in a vertical offense like Dirk’s.

  17. Buc50 Says:

    For you Mariota trolls, just know that he’s having a mediocre season. Jameis is proving that he was the right choice. He’s relatively healthy and he’s making plays because he’s skilled and not because of his 40 time.

  18. Joe Says:

    Winston just overthrew D-Jax again… stay tuned.

    Blame Koetter for constantly calling a play that doesn’t work. Yeah, let’s bench Jameis for Fitz. If you want Koetter/Smith fired, that will take care of that really quick.

    Let’s focus on two plays in a game to kill a quarterback who put up nearly 400 yards on a strong team with a bum throwing shoulder.

  19. WyomingBucsFan Says:

    Are you actually trying to reason with these fools?

  20. Bculaw Says:


  21. Joe Says:

    Brady was strip sacked and threw an ugly INT in the end zone in the first quarter of last bigt’s game against ATL. He fell on the fumble and the INT was called back due to roughing the passer that had no effect on the play. Is he a turnover machine, too?

    And if he played for the Bucs, the trolls would want him cut for Mike Glennon.

  22. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    No doubt JW is the best QB this Franchise has ever had

    The problem with Jameis and he’s always had this problem is that Jameis thinks he can make any throw a completion……even Koetter has been saying this from day 1.

    Smart decision making is the key to a successful QB obviously

    How many time have we seen Jameis throw into double coverage or coverage’s that were WAY TO TIGHT…….even MOOSE said the same thing yesterday about chucking up those deep shots and about doing it all the time.

    These ill-advised decisions will cost this team in critical moments……..

    But nonone is caring about this right now because everybody is pissed off about out crappy defense.

  23. Bucsfanman Says:

    Jameis is still a work in progress. He’ll improve. It’s easy to forget that this kid is what, 23?!
    Imagine what can happen when he starts connecting to DJax downfield.

  24. admin Says:

    Are you actually trying to reason with these fools?

    It’s Monday morning. 🙁

  25. gilhealy Says:

    Joe, just ignore these fools. We know why they don’t like Jameis. No one with any knowledge of the game pays them any mind. You can’t fix stupid.

  26. C eh N eh D eh Says:

    It’s about wins and losses boys…Jameis gets a L, never mind stats…Lucky there weren’t more picks, he could have had more, got some breaks…missed Jackson again…every f*ckin week!!!

  27. nate_tweetz Says:

    For all the Jameis haters that live in a fantasy land where their QB never throws an ill-advised pass, here are some numbers that show that as “average” as Jameis has been playing so far this year, his numbers are still mostly top 10 in the league. Mind you these stats include a week 1 bye week and being knocked out of most of the Arizona game:

    9th in passing yards

    8th in yards per throw

    12th in pass TD’s


    These are NOT bad numbers for a player with a bum shoulder that has not yet found chemistry with DJax, and has self-admittedly not played as well as he could. If he improves upon these numbers, which he should, Jameis could very well be a top 10 QB in this league by the end of the year.

  28. nate_tweetz Says:

    You don’t think Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers ever catch breaks!?! C’mon dude.

  29. wewantgruden Says:

    How many more games will the Buc brass stand to have Mike Smith as D Coordinator?? Gruden would have let him go a long time ago. To that end, the Bucs would probably be, at a minimum, 5-1 with Gruden at the helm. There is no accountability from the head coach down. The players are partying hard the Saturday before the game. I wonder if we will trade down the first pick in the draft to select a kicker in the second round? That is another thing that would have never happened with Gruden at the helm. You are crazy if you think the players are not at least thinking about a mutiny when draft picks are wasted like that.

  30. tmaxcon Says:

    I’ll take a gambler who makes a mistake over a conservative qb who plays scared…. How’d did 19-9 turn out when given the chance….

  31. tmaxcon Says:


    obviously the ownership does not care about winning or they would not have neglected the roster for a decade and tolerated GMC’s losing ways…

  32. wewantgruden Says:

    On another note…..don’t you think that the D is tired of preacher boy JW’s ill spoken “words of wisdom? It gets old on professional players. Even Ryan Fitzpatrick told him to tone it down during a Hard Knocks episode.

  33. Wausa Says:


    Again you are spot on.

    Jameis shredded the number 1 scoring defense in the NFL and is obviously already one of the top QB’s in the NFL.
    A team like the Bills would give us all of their draft picks for the next three years for him yet we have idiots on here that think this 23 year old QB is a bad player.

    Jameis is far an away the best QB this franchise has ever had and it’s not even close.

    Our second best QB is a friend of mine and it is still easy for me to say Jameis is much better.

  34. JabooBuc Says:

    OMG, people on this site are retarded. Do you watch games other than the Bucs? If you throw a lot of passes in this league, you will have plenty of near misses or near turnovers. The windows are very small.

  35. Bucworld Says:

    I don’t see how anyone could put this loss on Winston. If the defense showed up yesterday, we win. On the bright side of things, the Bucs are cleaning up areas where they struggled. The field goal kicking was much better yesterday. The offense was much better yesterday. Once the defense put it all together we will have a pretty decent team. Just like better coaching helped the Bucs offense improve this week. We will need better coaching from the defensive coordinator for the defense to improve.

  36. Kobe Faker Says:

    I figured correctly that indeed Koetter does read my posts

    giving OJ minimum 6 targets did indeed change the game completely

    we need less of hump and put OJ in the slot with Brate on the field together

    Evans, Djax, OJ, Brate….no NFL team has a superior offensive weapons on the field at once


    Kobe Faker

  37. mark Says:

    JW stats

    Completion percentage: 63%
    TD%: 4.8
    INT%: 1.9 (career best so far)
    Y/A: 7.9
    AY/A: 8
    Y/C: 12.5 (yards gained per completed pass)
    Rate: 95.5

    He’s just starting his 3rd year but keep yapping about how bad JW is.

  38. wewantgruden Says:

    JW is mediocre at best. Below is his career stats:

    60.4 Comp %
    9,775 Yards
    60 TD’s
    37 Int
    86.8% QB rating

    **Marcus Mariotta is much better, and he is winner. I do not recall him stealing crabs legs OR standing on his college lunch hall table yelling obscenities about what he wanted to do with women’s private parts….Google it.

  39. Eric Says:

    Beat the Panthers and things look way better.

  40. wewantgruden Says:

    They have no chance against the Panthers. Although, they will probably make it look close with a couple of mop-up scores.

  41. tmaxcon Says:


    then take your pansy arse back over to the titans site loser

  42. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    This site is completely ruined. Can’t discuss football because of one or two guys destroying every post with nonsense. It’s pathetic. You guys have fun reading the same nonsense from the same poster over and over again. Dueces!

  43. tmaxcon Says:


    the bucs do not deserve to beat the panthers and a flawed win will just keep covering up the core issues. until the leader of the losing culture is infecting another roster the bucs will continue to underachieve.

  44. FR Says:

    3 years and nothing to show for it yea lets blame the offense line one year yea lets blame the D yea lets blame this and that please………………..

  45. FR Says:


  46. Defense Rules Says:

    @Joe … “Blame Koetter for constantly calling a play that doesn’t work.” Have to agree with that one Joe. Far too much attention on looking for deep, explosive plays this season as opposed to methodically moving down the field & controlling the clock.

    @Bucworld … “If the defense showed up yesterday, we win.” Agree totally with that one too Bucworld. One problem … doubt seriously that it’ll play much better for the rest of this year. Talent counts, and this defense has too many weaknesses. Bucs offense, on the other hand, has oodles of talent (in ‘weapons’ especially … our OLine needs work). Jameis isn’t the problem, but if this offense doesn’t put up 30-35 pts/game we’re looking at a VERY bad year.

    And WeWantGruden, have news. Bucs during Gruden’s 7 yrs here ranked 18th average on offense. The strength of those Bucs’ teams was the defense, led by DC Monte Kiffin. And guess what … those defenses had far more talent than what the Bucs have on defense this year, plus they had continuity. If Monte had this Bucs defense, gut feel is that it’d still be just as bad as it is.

  47. Eric Says:

    Last time I checked Fitzpatrick did in one half with no starting reps what Winston did in a whole game with 3 years in the same offense with the same players. What’s worse is Fitz IS capable of throwing the deep ball and actually getting it to OUR players hands not the other team. Where is all this highly publicized leadership I always hear about on this site? He was supposed to be so much better than Mariota when it came to leadership. If that is the case then I guess leadership is way overrated. The leader was supposed to be able o pit the team on his back… sorry I just don’t see it and our record of 2-4 with more weapons than the US military is disgusting. Every year Brady takes a team with way more deficiencies than we have and wins a Superbowl, I’m just asking for a playoff game.
    Stop disrespecting our best quarterback we ever had Superbowl winning Brad Johnson, saying Winston is better. He hasn’t done sh!t except compile a losing record. Imagine any QB with the weapons Winston has and stop looking a things through garnet and gold glasses. I can think of 4 QB’S recently drafted that are better than this loser.
    Seriously look at their weapons and look at Winstons, it’s not even close. Factor that in FSU fools!

  48. wewantgruden Says:

    Very well put Eric.

  49. Wausa Says:

    The idiot on here that says Mariotta is better must not watch the Titans play.

    Mariotta is not anywhere close to the QB Jamies is.

    The Titans however have an excellent ground game and a solid defense so yea those things help win games.

  50. Grt2 Says:

    Go watch Hockey Jameis Troll. Mariotta has a better team around him better run game and better D. And he’s never Pushes the ball down field.

  51. Grt2 Says:

    Eric you’re an idiot how can you compare those QB’s to Jameis. Those teams very good to great defensives so they have better teams

  52. Poor Glennon Says:

    I’m not blaming #3 yesterday and i’m a non believer in him. The fact is this poor defence. Let’s Winston play the way he wants. Were gunna give up points. Winston got his weapons to match these teams. Score for score. Thru 6 games in the easiest part of the schedule. He has not been good enough. And around and around we go. You Winston lovers got what you want yesterday…….passing yards. Us non believers continue to NOT get what we want…..WINS.

  53. Lord Cornelius Says:

    I seriously f*cking hate you guys sometimes. I may have to leave JBF until a block function is installed.

    I shouldn’t have to read some idiot in here sucking Marcus mariota’s d1ck. What kind of f*cking fan are you

  54. DB55 Says:


    I’ve been trying to tell you these “people” are dumb af since day 1.

    Bye Hawaii don’t let the door split ya in the head. Lol.

  55. libucfan Says:

    @wewantgruden @eric

    Your argument against Winston is silly. He’s not playing defense and making every QB we play look like the next coming of Joe Montana. He’s not the guy who can’t kick the ball through the uprights costing us games. If THOSE people did their job, we would’t be having this ridiculous conversation.

  56. johnnybuc Says:

    his performance should’ve still made headlines but our “defense” decided to let the bills go score a td in 3 plays and gave up 400 yards and 30 points to one of the worst offenses in the league. should’ve never had to get to the point where we had to go back on the field to get points to win the game , that’s why i don’t blame hump. defense pulled the greatest fsu impersonation i have ever seen

  57. DB55 Says:

    The only young q.b. that is or may be better than Winston is Wentz. #RealTalk

    And I’ve been saying this for at least a yr but most if you people are really slow and stupid and have no clue so there’s that.

  58. 813bucboi Says:

    Blame Koetter for constantly calling a play that doesn’t work…

    that’s the definition of incompetents at its finest!!!!….same thing with smitty!!!!

    @LC….you may have to leave this site because you’ve been dead wrong about this staff!!!!….so, you and @realist still think this staff has us headed in the right direction?….we’re 2-4 with a boat load of talent and a divided locker room!!!!….the dirk and smitty experiment has failed!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  59. dis Says:

    Yeah. I’m done here too. We know the real reason why these trolls are hating on Jameis. It’s a sad day.

    Good luck real fans. See you in the Super Bowl very soon:)

    Joe. Please make sure all these Tampa Tony wannabes aren’t all posting from the same IP address.

  60. DBS Says:

    We don’t care if you leave . Bye ” LORD”.

  61. Mr Ed Says:

    I doubt the few idiots on here that are complaining irrationally about Winston would be doing it if he looked like Mariota physically. Or like Andy Dalton. Or like Andrew Luck. Read between the lines.

    These same douchebags were happy that Doug Williams was allowed to go to the USFL too.

  62. DBS Says:

    If one of their starting DB’s does not get injured 2 of the TD do not happen. It was on that side where they too lost OJ just like we lost their receiver. And he was wide open. And thank you Mike Evans for breaking up that sure pick. As usual it came down to the 4th quarter. It should never had to if the offense would score and quit counting on the kicker in the first 3 quarters every damn game!!

  63. Bucsfanman Says:

    Ah, the joys of being a Buc fan!

  64. Cgmaster Says:

    ERic we get that you’re mariota fanboy, how did he do against Cleveland yesterday? He stuggeled to get 4 fg against the Browns? Mariota is mediocre and it eats you up. He has a sterling 1-1 int ratio and that without a pass eve traveling 20 yards int the air. You mariota dick riders are insufferable. Go be titans fans and watch your mediocre qb squeak out wins against the browns.

  65. Cgmaster Says:

    Dbs 2 of the tds don’t happen? Are you psychic? How do you know they wouldn’t happen? You trolls are trying too hard. Go sit on mariota a lap and enjoy mediocrity as your qb throws 5 yard our routes all day.

  66. DBS Says:

    real easy. they could do nothing there until the starter was injured and out for the game. Then they picked on the backup.

  67. DBS Says:

    And by they way, I couldn’t care any less about Mariota. I don’t believe in either one of them. Evans makes Jameis look better than he is.

  68. Cgmaster Says:

    Haha that’s like saying Julio makes matt Ryan look better or Jerry rice making Montana better. Do you even read your crap you spew? And the offense was moving the ball allg ame norm jistt when the dB was out. Let me guess that 15 yard face mask that killed our first drive was jamies’ fault? Or the sack fumble was his fault? You can put the pick on Jameis but he completed almost 70% of his passes and put 27 in the board against the number 1 scoring defend win the nfl. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

  69. Buc-n-Iowa Says:

    Funny how some of you idiots knock Jameis for too many FG’s instead of TD’s and then praise Mariotta who barely beat the worst team in the NFL in OT with only FG’s. Mariotta has 4 ints and only 4 td.. Jameis also has 4 ints but 10 tds. Anyone who even considers if Mariotta is better than Jameis is a STUPID IDIOT!!!

  70. NFLNut Says:















    Seriously guys, copy and paste this and just use this over and over and over again as your reply to the various idiotic, Jameis-bashing trolls on this forum!


  71. Mr Ed Says:

    Mariota has light skin people. It’s obvious.

  72. unbelievable Says:

    He played pretty good after the 1st quarter, minus 2 very bad throws that both should have been interceptions. Even in the 1stquarter he looked pretty good but the offense self destructed in the red zone.

    Koetter called a very good game plan. Unfortunatubstl the execution was not consistent enough.

    And of course the defense never even got off the plane…

  73. RustyRhinos Says:

    Nate, “These are NOT bad numbers” The only numbers that really matter are Wins And Losses, And as Mr. Winston stands today he is 2 – 4 as the starting Franchise QB of the Buccaneers. Our team lost the game it would not matter if Mr. Winston threw for 500+ yards and 7 TD’s we “lost” the game. I know Mr. Winston does not have any ability to play on Defense. But the entire team “lost” not just the Defense.

    I want a complete game, not a game where the O is good or the D is good, we need both to play their best every game. And for this Defensive output, we have the rest of the NFL teams that needed a new Head Coach to thank. When they did not come calling on our Defensive Guru for their Head Coaching vacancies. Maybe they knew something we did not????
    Come on Coach Smith. Is it communication issues again? A lack of skilled players?

    go bucs…

  74. Hail2dabucs Says:

    Just like last year I expect them to make a small push when it’s too little too late! Jameis is not the problem people ! This terrible defence and recently hump’s fumble is ! Don’t expect to win much with this friggen defence

  75. Poor Glennon Says:

    There are wayyyyy more Winston doubter’s. 6 games into his 3rd season. Than there were Freeman doubter’s. 6 games into his 3rd season. Freeman was golden after that 25/6 TD INT season as a 21yo. You can’t have a great game every 4th game in the NFL. You have to consistent go 3TD to 1 turnover. Consistently have a comp% around 65%. Then execute in the clutch. Notice i didn’t mention passing yards. Freeman had a 4000 yard season, Winston has had 2. None of those 3 seasons equated to even the playoffs.

  76. Tony from Los Angeles Says:

    Man, the Bucs have some of the most ignorant fans who simply do not understand a lick about football. If you are hating on the 23 year old QB who is improving so obviously before our eyes you have absolutely no understanding of the position. Look at these stats:

    Right now the Bucs are ranked:

    Ranked 2nd in offense; 30th in defense

    Ranked 1st in passing offense; 30th in rushing offense

    What does that tell you? The Bucs have one of the worst defenses AND running games in the entire NFL. This forces Jameis into horrible game script circumstances week after week after week. And how is he responding????

    the #1 pass offense in the entire NFL.

    He is getting absolutely zero help from a running game or a defense. Zero. Playing hurt. He’s a BEAST.

    Grow up negative fans. Jameis ain’t the problem. He’s the solution.

  77. Tony from Los Angeles Says:

    I agree with Joe wholeheartedly (see my post above) – fans who don’t appreciate Jameis are literally the most blind fans I have ever seen in my entire life and absolutely need to be locked away in a mental institution. These are the people that hate everything life and always complain. I couldn’t be more ecstatic that no matter how bad the Bucs season may be going right now they have the most important building block firmly in place.

  78. DB55 Says:

    Jameis is the greatest qb in buccaneer history. He’s already in the hof (true story). If he only had a defensive captain with a heart.

    Mike Evans Capatain. 98 yards 1 TD.
    Jameis Winston Captain 400 yards passing 3 tds.
    LaVonte David Captain 14 yes 14 tackles and a FF recovery in the 4th.

    Gmc Captain 1 tackle (even though I didn’t see it and it was prob a gimme stat.)

    One of these Captains is NOT like the other. #Facts

  79. DB55 Says:

    There are wayyyyy more Winston doubter’s. 6 games into his 3rd season. Than there were Freeman doubter’s. 6 games into his 3rd season.
    That’s cuz at least half of you are dumb af. And it sounds like you’re leading the pack.

  80. Upthegut Says:

    Blaming JW for that fumble is idiotic. Put the blame where it belongs Donovan Smith
    who let the guy fly right by him by not changing assignment. The same infamouse left tackle cost the Bucs 65 yards by drawing a holding penalty when Winston hit
    D.Jax for 55 yards. Can you say Game Changer???

  81. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    I don’t really blame Adam Humphries either. Yes, he did blow it, but he’s usually very sure-handed…probably the most sure-handed WR on the team.

    Sucks, but it is what it is. We came close to winning the game…and the Bills are not nearly so bad as people pretend. They have a top defense.

  82. celly Says:

    wewantgruden Says:
    October 23rd, 2017 at 9:50 am
    JW is mediocre at best. Below is his career stats:

    60.4 Comp %
    9,775 Yards
    60 TD’s
    37 Int
    86.8% QB rating

    **Marcus Mariotta is much better, and he is winner. I do not recall him stealing crabs legs OR standing on his college lunch hall table yelling obscenities about what he wanted to do with women’s private parts….Google it.

    First off, QB rating isn’t judged by percentages, so your credibility was just shot.

    Second, If you’re a Trump supporter, you’re not allowed to complain about what Jameis yelled. If you do, that says more about you than it does about either one of them.

  83. Hail2dabucs Says:

    People , Doug Martin rushesfor what ? 57 yards ? Defence can not stop anyone on 3rd down ! At all ! No pass rush and all our eyes can clearly see that since rice left ! And I hate to admit it but at times bad play calling ! Mike Evans , jameis , brate , thoes are the good guys ! Even kwon makes splash plays but I saw him miss badly a few times yesterday…the effin defence sucks ! Where r the days of Brooks n sapp dammit